Post Viral Immune Support To Improve Energy | Podcast #363

What you eat after a viral infection, when symptoms of fatigue persist, can have a marked impact on your speed of recovery. Dr. J and Evan discuss that specific foods need to be avoided or included in your diet to improve your immune system. So what are the truth and the evidence about diet and post-viral immune support?

The good news is that most people will benefit from some considerations when recovering from illness or infection. Having post-viral fatigue means that you will not have your usual energy to think, shop, prepare or eat as before. Be very practical and kind to yourself. Dr. J and Evan added that diet modification is vital in your recovery.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00 – Introduction
1:57   – The role of acid-pH level in the digestive system
5:01  – The link of depression and anxiety to bloating
10:02 – The benefits of probiotics and effects of stress to digestive health
18:17 – Functional medicine strategies and testing to find the root cause of bloating


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J in the house with Evan Brand. Evan, how you doing man? How are your holidays? How’s everything going brother?

Evan Brand: Everything’s going pretty good. I’m trying to start 2022 off with a bang. I suspect it’s gonna be a better year than 2021. People are becoming smarter. They’re becoming more educated. They’re becoming more resourceful. People are waking up. There’s a lot of, we’re in the great awakening and so I think, this is an important time to be alive and an important time if you’re a parent, if you’re a husband, a wife, if you’ve got kids, if you’re a teacher. It’s important time to keep your eyes open and keep your ears to the ground because stuff changes quickly and you got to be like a little speedboot. You got to be able to take turns quick, you don’t want to be the titanic right now, you don’t wanna be slow in taking big turns, you gotta be nimble in these times and so what I’m alluding to is just you got to be able to navigate the world of health which is quickly evolving and that’s true. What we’re trying to talk about today is post viral fatigue and really that’s just the title but this really could apply to bacterial infections and parasites and mold exposure but we just wanted to try to zoom in a little bit specifically on post viral fatigue and things like Epstein Barr virus, many people are familiar with and there’s a lot of people that report their chronic fatigue, picking up after something like EBV, we’ve seen it a lot with the virus going around now which would probably get flagged and censored so we won’t say it but you know what it is and there’s a lot of post, uh, viral fatigue going on from that and so you and I have dealt with some of that, you’re still going through the thick of it right now but I think you’re coming through pretty well, you’re still working and obviously you’re on your feet right now literally standing so that’s exciting and yeah.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For the listeners, I had COVID last week, actually symptoms started on Wednesday. Really two hard days of symptoms, I was able to work the whole time though, I mean I think that the symptoms for my COVID that were, um, tough was I would say achiness and then like sensitivity to cold like it was like 45 degrees out and it felt like it was minus 10. So, I would say sensitivity to cold and then also getting really hot at some points, getting out where I would sweat through my shirt. So hot and cold, achiness/ headaches and then like easily out of breath but I mean for me I mean, it was still fine where I could work and still do the things I had to do. So it wasn’t that bad, I mean, I had a flu in 2013 where I was literally laid up for over two days and I couldn’t do anything so I know laid up feels like it wasn’t even close to the flu of 2013 for me, that was really hard. So, definitely, um, not as bad, I actually was my own worst enemy because on Friday I was feeling like really good like 80-90% better and did like 2-3 hours of housework like cleaning my house like doing all this different stuff because it was a beautiful day and I’m like all right let me get on top of some work, work 3 hours probably walk like 15,000 steps and that next day there was a major relapse in how I felt. It was probably like I went backwards 30-40%. Here I was at 80% probably going backwards to 50. I was like whoa what happened and so then I just kind of got in the straight and narrow and just said okay I gotta really make sure I kind of make sure I kind of keep it easy until I get back to 100% because, you know, um, it just you didn’t realize how much, uh, things could go backwards so fast so you really gotta wait till you get a 100% on things and so overall I mean the only thing lingering for me right now is a slight bit of um out of breathiness and, uh, this little lingering deep tickle cough like right now you can feel it like someone’s tickling the back of your throat with your finger and you want to cough to scratch it, kind of like that and so that’s where I’m at now. That’s like kind of makes it feel like I scratch it right there, right. So, I’m doing some ginger tea, I’m doing with the Manuka honey that soothes it like that helps with the irritation. It’s not knocking the cough down. Doing some, Elderberry, um, doing some thieves, uh, natural cough drops with essential oils, um, also doing some nebulizer so I’m doing some glutathione nebulization so those are couple of things I’m doing and then obviously sinus flushes, the amount of mucus that is coming out of me is out of control so sinus flushes are really, really important because if you do not flush your sinuses, the amount of stuff that stays inside of you, oh my God. So, flushing my sinuses out 3-4 times a day, you know, really good saline reverse osmosis with a little bit of silver in there to kind of keep things flushed out is helping a lot. So, that’s kind of where I’m at but honestly feeling pretty good, um, the whole family got it purposefully, my wife had it and I’m like come over here honey gave her a big kiss and then I kissed all my kids, I’m like we’re done. We’re gonna get this thing all together, be done with it all that way we’re not, you know, I get it next month and then I’m isolating for two weeks and then my kids get no we’re gonna get it all at the same time and surprisingly my kids’ symptoms were 80% less than the adults, super, super minor.  I couldn’t believe how minor it was for the kids, so very interesting. So, that was kind of my experience with, uh, with the big C, uh, so to speak. And also, the big correlation I was listening to someone talk about this, the, a lot of the post C symptoms that we see after, right, people that have dysglycemia, and blood sugar issues tend to be a big driving factor of a lot of these post viral symptoms afterwards. Talking about post-viral fatigue, one of the big things is make sure you manage your glycemia, meaning you’re having good protein, you’re having good fats, you’re not eating a bunch of refined sugar, grains, those kinds of things. Make sure you put good metaphorical logs on the fire, good proteins, good fats to really work on blood sugar stability. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. Yeah. We’ll I’m glad that you’re coming through it. Regarding the shortness of breath, I would kind of put that in the same category as the post viral fatigue because that shortness of breath can create fatigue and the best thing that’s helped me and has helped many clients is doing the color oxygen. So, ChlorOxygen, you can get that on amazon, it’s readily available. And it’s just a, it’s a liquid chlorophyll extract. So, when you do that within probably 5-10 minutes, you can feel a difference, so it’s like C-h-l-o-r-Oxygen, ChlorOxygen. I would probably do 10-20 drops up to 3 times per day. That thing is absolutely incredible. You can go as high as one tablespoon in 20 ounces of water and just sip on that throughout the day. I had one guy in New York, major, major issues with shortness of breath in the acute and the long term and that ChlorOxygen literally just turned his situation around. So, I’d get some of that stuff. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, it’s C-h-l-o-r Oxygen?

Evan Brand: Yeah, ChlorOxygen. Yeah, and it comes in a little bottle tincture and it’s incredible. Also, something I’ve used personally, I’ve used with several clients too is Ailanthus. Ailanthus is three of heaven which is an invasive tree. I see a lot of it in Kentucky but you can buy Ailanthus tincture and that one is also really, really good. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Is this the one, right here, Is the ChlorOxygen? 

Evan Brand: Yeah. That’s the one. Yep. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Cool.

Evan Brand: Get you some of that but should help because that’s the problem is, you know, the shortness of breath was pretty bad for me and I felt better, you know, I got infected a long time ago. It was like August 2020 and then six months later that’s when I started to have some shortness of breath which I was like, holy crap and so luckily, I was able to knock it out, uh, with Demectin and uh, yeah, Demectin really helped me and then the nebulizer and the ChlorOxygen, I would say that combination was an absolute game changer, luckily, I haven’t had any issues since then. But what we are seeing is that the mitochondria have a role in this and some of this post-viral fatigue we’re seeing is due to mitochondrial damage so I’ve been fortunate enough to see a few dozen people now. And in terms of organic acids testing after the virus, and we are seeing that the mitochondria definitely showed dysfunction. You and I talked about this many times on other podcast about the mitochondria. We can measure the dysfunction and so what we’re doing is we’re coming in with mitochondrial support nutrients so CoQ10, we’re coming in with carnitine, ribose, a lot of these amino acids and B vitamins like riboflavin which can help fuel the krebs cycle and then also we can use things like PQQ to help get the mitochondrial biogenesis going, meaning we’re literally making new mitochondria so we can measure this on paper. So, if you guys are suffering, you know, one of us can reach out or you reach out to us rather and then we can get the urine looked at because we can measure this. You don’t have to guess where is this fatigue coming from. If it’s a mitochondrial induced problem, we can measure that. Now, you have permission to have multiple things wrong with you so there could be a dopamine problem, there could be a mitochondrial problem, there could be toxin problem. So, rarely is there one issue causing this fatigue but the goal is for us to try to get as many puzzle pieces laid out in front of us and then make an appropriate protocol.    

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I’d say, the worst thing about COVID for me right now, coffee tastes bitter like it tastes bitter, almost a little bit sour, does not taste like coffee. I’ve almost been like I’m not even gonna drink it right now until this thing gets better because it does not taste that good but for me I’m just alright, I got, you know, 20 grams of collagen in there, I got some good fats, I kind of look at it as like a meal replacement for me. So, that’s probably the worst thing the whole time. For me, it kind of felt like a cold. I’d say a mild, mild to middle of the road cold. The only thing that really surprised me was that, that back swing where I was like 80% better and then went backwards that was the hardest thing. 

Evan Brand: And, it could have been you overdoing it for sure, I mean, 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: oh, you totally did. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean I did have a little bit of that too where I kind of felt like I was better, overdid it and then I heard it again, so. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100%. So, excuse me, anything else you wanted to highlight on that so far? I would say post-viral stuff, the things that I’m doing right now and I recommend people do, in general, are gonna be Adaptogens and I like medicinal mushrooms. So, Shiitake, Maitake, Reishi. Reishi is great. I love it because it does deactivate viruses. It does build up and support the natural killer immune cells so I do like that, uh, any type of ginseng, Ashwagandha, these are things that help support energy production, support the adrenals, help buffer the HPA excess. So, any of these types of things are gonna be, uh, helpful too.  

Evan Brand: You need to get on some Lion’s Mane too for your taste because what I’m finding is that the nerves are damaged and that’s affecting the sinus. So, the sense of smell, sense of taste, some of that is related to nerve damage. So, I would probably hit Lion’s Mane, maybe like two caps twice a day. That’s been helpful to restore the sense of smell and taste in some people. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s probably not damaged. It’s probably just more inflammation, right? 

Evan Brand: Well, the long-term stuff, I’m talking to people just long-term. I’m talking to people that you know 6-8 months later say, I still can’t taste or smell. Bringing in Lion’s Mane, like 2 caps twice a day. It takes a few months but you know it does increase nerve growth factor and so I think that’s the mechanism. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s interesting. Yeah. I do have some Lion’s Mane. I’ll definitely add that in. I mean, I think medicinal mushrooms are gonna be really good to, um, be on top of, uh, just supporting your immune system and like helping with, um, the body regenerate and heal better. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. Gabe was asking a question in the live chat on YouTube. How did you guys catch it? I don’t know, I mean I work from home. You know, I’ve got a home office, uh, Justin has a home office as well, you know, I do go out, uh. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Personally, it’s the new variant. The new variant has an R-naught of seven, which is that’s equal to, uh, measles so the delta variant had an R-naught of 2 or 3 so that means for every one person that gets it, it can be passed to 2-3 on average, right. The new omicron variant, it’s seven, so you can literally pass it to seven people so I think my wife was in a yoga class with three people and they were like spread out across that broom like they were like way you know spaced apart, you know, for just all the safety reasons and it was still able to get it so my whole take on omicron, it’s very, um, I think the symptoms are milder than delta for sure. That’s what everything’s been reported but, um, it’s way more contagious. Everyone’s gonna get it at this point, you just gotta have your plan and, um, be ready ahead of time, right? People don’t have a plan and then when they get it then they get stuck and they feel like they have to go to the hospital and you don’t have as many options there so try to have a, um, outpatient plan ready to rock and roll but yeah, you’re gonna get it because the, um, our knot on this thing, right, is that seven which is at a level close to measles so it’s right there. So, if you haven’t got it yet, you will. Anything else you wanna highlight on the immune side, on the post-viral stuff obviously I’m a big fan of ginger, I think ginger is nice because it’s anti-inflammatory, anti-viral, uh, helps with lymphatic. So, if your kind of like have a lot of like stagnant lymph in the chest area or in the neck I really keeps the lymph moving all that’s very helpful. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. There was, uh, one person that commented if you’ve had delta you should have some memory T cells that will help if you get infected. Yes supposedly. Supposedly, um.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You definitely should have memory T cells as well as memory B cells, right? So, even if you were to get sick again, um, you’re gonna be able to recruit antibodies way faster, right? Normally when you get sick if you’re first time getting exposed to an infection it takes about a week or so to really get those antibodies ramped up and so even if you were to get sick twice, you’re gonna be able to make those antibodies inside of, you know, 24 hours or so. So, you’re gonna be able to bring those antibodies to the table a lot faster and so that’s, um, that’s pretty cool. That’s pretty helpful. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. Other strategies, uh, post-viral fatigue hyperbaric oxygen has been helpful. I’ve seen several clients that luckily have lived in a city where they’ve had access to do hyperbaric oxygen. Essentially, what it is, is it’s replicating being under water under water about 10 to 12 feet so that pressure is helping to get oxygen deeper inside of you. So, some of these tissues may have been starved of oxygen. This sort of mild hypoxia or hypoxemia, you know, you can basically reverse that by getting the hyperbaric oxygen. There are some people that can do there’s oxygen cans, little portable oxygen shots, if you will but it’s nothing compared to an oxygen concentrator with the hyperbaric oxygen so that’s good ongoing, I mean, I’ve had clients with Lyme that have done hyperbaric we know that’s incredible for traumatic brain injuries and concussions and that sort of thing. So, even if this is just a long-term fatigue problem, not related to viral issues at all, you know, hyperbaric is another good tool, you’re looking at probably around 100 a session but, you know, what, what’s your health? What is your health worth? So. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. One thing I did was very helpful was use my infrared sauna the last couple of days. That was helpful, just getting a really good sweat in felt very good, you know, raising that body temperature up can be very helpful just at um at your body knocking down viruses. That’s part of the reason why you get, um, chill while you get the nutshells but, uh, why you get a fever right. It’s part of the reason your immune system is actually knocking down some of that bacteria and or viruses by doing it that way so using an infrared sauna can be helpful too. 

Evan Brand: So, look at your mitochondria, get your organic acids test done, we can measure that and look at mitochondrial function come in with specific support whether it’s B vitamins, adaptogenic herbs like Rhodiola, you mentioned, Siberian ginseng or Eleuthero. There’s medicinal mushrooms like cordyceps which there is some benefits. There are some papers on cordyceps and athletes and improving blood flow. There may be some level of oxygenation that happens with cordyceps too. So, cordyceps, reishi mushroom, I think the Lion’s mane for the brain and for the nerves would be beneficial, the ChlorOxygen for any of the shortness of breath along with the fatigue, rest, I mean just getting good quality sleep, making sure you got to do whatever you can to get good quality sleep. So, all the same sleep hygiene habits we’ve talked about for a decade together apply in regards to candling down at night if you need some passion flower. Even melatonin, there’s some really cool studies on melatonin. We know, it’s a very powerful antioxidant and we are seeing higher doses of melatonin be beneficial. So, in general, somewhere around 5 milligrams but there are some papers going wat up 30 – 40 – 50 milligrams and beyond. I don’t know a ton about the high dose so I’ll just tell you that the regular dose standard dosing is better than nothing. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It was that melatonin?

Evan Brand: Melatonin. Yes. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Usually, it’s like the higher dose is like 10 milligrams and that’s gonna help with the oxygenation and then 30 – 500 milligrams for the arginine that’s to really increase the oxygenation. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. The arginine for like nitric oxide production. Beet powder, you know, beet powder would be good too. So, anything you could do to create some vasodilation is gonna be smart. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Anything else you wanna add, Evan?

Evan Brand: I think that’s it. If you need help, reach out, get tested, hopefully you get back on the full mend here so, keep, keep rolling. You’re doing a great job and hope everybody is doing well and we’ll be in touch next week. If you need help clinically, please reach out. You can reach out to Dr. J at justinhealth.com or me, Evan Brand, at evanbrand.com. We’re happy to help you guys. Keep your head up. keep moving forward.   

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think the big thing out of the gates is to make sure you have time to sleep, rest. Don’t overdo it. Just know your body still needs more time even when you, when you’ve gotten through the whole thing to recover. Don’t overdo it. That’s really important. Keep the foundational nutrients dialed in so that would be like zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, you know, you can keep those things in there. You may not have to use them at such a high level that you did with the infection but keep some of those nutrients. Don’t go from something to nothing. Keep something in there the whole time, find a medicinal mushroom that you like, find an adaptogen that you like. Maybe keep a little bit of ginger tea going. Something that has some antiviral support and um, you know, try to get a little bit of movement but if it’s making you feel winded then just try to do just enough where you can feel like you’re doing something but not where it’s overly taxing you. I think it’s really important to kind of meet that right in the middle. 

Evan Brand: Last thing, two last things, a low histamine diet is generally pretty helpful because there are a lot of issues with mast cell activation being triggered from this. So, a lower histamine diet, fresh meat, and no leftovers is very important. And then, histamine support. I’ve got a product called histamine support but essentially it’s quercetin plus some other nutrients so anything, you can do to stabilize your mast cells that’s gonna be helpful because muscle activation can cause fatigue, meaning, after the viral issue was over, the immune system can sort of have PTSD for lack of a better terminology and the immune system will go into this crazy state where it will shut you down so that fatigue trying to rebuild that energy back up is re-regulating the immune system so like the quercetin, other mast cell stabilizers are very helpful. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Love it. Love it. Makes total sense and again not everyone’s gonna have that issue but you know, it’s kind of good to know if you fit into that camp. Those are a couple of strategies out of the gates. Anything else, Evan?

Evan Brand: No, that’s it. Take it easy. If people need help, reach out justinhealth.com and evanbrand.com will be available. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’re here to help you guys. I’ll probably be back later on today here. So, keep a lookout, comments down below. Let us know your thoughts on the topic, we appreciate a review. We appreciate shares to friends and family. Really helps us get the word out. You guys have a phenomenal day. We’ll talk soon. 

Evan Brand: Take it easy. Bye-bye

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye you all. 

 

How to Reduce Inflammation and Improve Joint Mobility | Podcast #359

When you think of joint mobility issues, you’re probably thinking of inflammation. Inflammation is a process in which your body’s white blood cells and immune proteins help protect you from infection and things like bacteria and viruses.

In this video, Dr. J and Evan Brand discuss that your immune system triggers an inflammatory response when there isn’t anything to fight off in some diseases. With these diseases, called autoimmune diseases, your body’s immune system damages its tissues. Your body responds as if normal tissues need to be fought off. These are all linked to diet modification and testing that needs to be done to make you health better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00 –  The benefits of movements to joint mobility
5:23 –  The benefits of ergonomic chairs and tables for your back
18:56 – The vital role of proper diet for better joint mobility of reduction of inflammation
30:04 – The anti-inflammatory benefits of ginger for joint health


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With Evan Brand, we’re gonna be going into reducing inflammation in the joints and how to improve joint mobility. We’re gonna be talking about it more from a biochemical kind of metabolic inflammation standpoint. So excited to dive in on that topic. Evan, how are we doing today man? What’s cooking? 

Evan Brand: I’m doing pretty good. I was telling you about my shoulder. I was lifting some heavy things over the weekend and my shoulder got a little tight on me. I thought, oh oh. So, uh, that spurred the idea of this conversation and I hit some arnica homeopathic 30c which worked very well. It’s not necessarily the root cause but it has been helpful and you know I wasn’t trained on homeopathy so this is something you and I have kind of dove into in our personal lives with our kids and such and it’s been a game changer. So, I mean, out of the gate, I think that’s something to have on hand even if you don’t know biochemically your root cause, what’s going on, at least you could remedy your situation, feel a little bit better well and buy some time while you’re investigating. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% So, when I look at joint issues right, you have physical inflammation that’s being caused by physical things, right? The most common things are going to be either over exercising too much, probably less common on that and the other one is just very poor posture, right? So, the easiest thing out of the gates is you’re either sitting in a really poor chair that has very poor lumbar support, right, lower back curve support or cervical curve support. So, the easiest thing is just getting a really high good quality rated ergonomic chair especially if you’re sitting a lot, right, that has cervical support and lumbar support, that’s super helpful. In that way that part of the spine is supported. Ideally, being able to stand a portion of your day. I mean, right now, I’m standing. I don’t think you are. So, I stand at least half of my day. I have a treadmill that I’ll slide it under there. I have a Cubbi stepper. So, I’m always trying to keep some movement in there. I get about 15,000 steps a day so it’s very helpful to be able to move, get some steps. That’s helpful for the joints. The disc in the joint get hydration through inhibition. So, the joint has to pump and move to get hydration into the joints. So, movement through the joint is super helpful. So, being able to stand for a portion of the day, sit a little bit with good support, getting some movement, super helpful. And then depending on the kind of where you’re at, if you have inflammation, if you have pain, I mean, you can do some simple core kind of postural functional movements to strengthen that area. I mean, one of the things I like, uh, is a book by Eric Goodman called Foundation Training, where he just does some simple posterior chain work like a standing prone cobra with the chin pull back, right, that activates the deep cervical flexors here. I mean, you can bend down to a 45-degree angle like this for 30 seconds. You can also bring it up like this and get the whole posterior chain activated and then you can also reach down and then create traction with the spine so go look at Eric Goodman’s work. He is a, just that these three or four movements called the founder that, those are really good movements to get the posterior chain like this, like this. Simple stuff out of the gates. And so, I like that to get the posterior chain, good stability with your chain, investing good money on your desk chair. Get sine ability like a stand desk to be able to stand up throughout the day even if you’re just kind of moving going back and forth. These are super easy ways to kind of get simple movement through your spine during this, you’re not sitting all day. And if you’re sitting all day, at least invest in a really good chair and try to get some of the stand desk where you can go up and down.

Evan Brand: I do this little bar stool too and that way I could just lean my butt on it. So, I’ll just put my butt on that but I’m still standing. I’m just kind of leaning back on it. I know there was some really expensive thing, I can’t remember the name of it, a few years, I think Marxism was promoting it but it had like rocks. It has this thing that he learned. It was almost like a pogo stick with a seat and so it was like this imbalanced chair. You’re sitting but you’re standing but there’s some like rocks on the floor and so he’d put his bare foot on the rocks. I don’t remember what it was but this is kind of my homemade version of it, this little bar stool that It’ll just kind of leave off kilter. In that way my butt’s just taking a little bit of load off because if I just try to stand all day, my back hurts. So, standing all day just doesn’t work for me but with a little bit of lean, it helps.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. They have these, um, these little, they’re called like wobble board chairs. There’s one called the Luna standing desk tool. It’s kind of like that, it’s kind like a pogo stick, right, but it’s got a flat surface, that’s kind of oblong so then you’re kind of sitting on that. You kind of have balance so then it activates the core but then you can kind of move around, kind of get some movement in your hips which is good for your spine. You can also just get like a Swiss ball, right? Just sit on one of those in that way, you can get some movement. And you won’t have so much support in the back so you really have to activate your core, activate your back so you can sit up there straight. That’s good, nothing wrong with that so that’s helpful. You probably wouldn’t want to do it all day because you’d be really keeping these muscles active all day but it’s nice if you’re at a desk, you can at least bring that in and bring the wobble board stool type of chair in there. These are a couple options, you know, minimal cost to bring in some good core activation. And when I say core, core is everything. It’s like the whole core thing is your back, it’s multifidus, it’s your iliocostalis muscles, right? It’s your longissimus muscles, it’s obviously your TVA, it’s your rectus abdominis, it’s your oblique, transverse, external, internal oblique, right? It’s everything around your back and front abdominal area. 

Evan Brand: People may be listening and go ‘God, why does that be so complex, I gotta get to this fancy chair or this or that’. Because, we didn’t really evolve if we were sitting like this all day staring at a screen. I mean, we’re just not really built for this, so it’s no surprise that we see so many people with mobility problems. I mean, I’ve been to several different physical therapy people over the years, just for random injuries and aches and pains and they all tell me that in their careers, these are people that have worked 20, 30, 40 years. They’ve seen just the rise of younger and younger people having worse mobility because they’re just sitting at a desk all day and how it’s shortening the muscles. I think it’s the hamstrings, right? It’s shortening the hamstrings when you sit all day?   

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I would say it’s probably shortening the hip flexor muscles, right? Because the hip flexors, right, when you flex the hip, you’re shortening that muscle so you’re creating that muscle shortens and that muscle, its insertion is on the lesser trochanter in the hip flexor in the femur muscle, in the femur, uh, bone so the lesser greater trochanter muscle, the top part of the femur but then it inserts, no, that’s where it inserts. Its origin is I think from L1 to L5 on the spine. And so, when you have tighter hip flexors, it pulls super tight on the origin which is going to be L1 to L5, I think, transverse process, and even the ribs.  So, it’ll pull really really hard on that back and so a lot of times, your chronic lower back pain is gonna be from the shearing force from really tight hip flexors, that’s part of how lower crossed syndrome happens, right? Lower crossed syndrome is nothing more than super tight hip flexors on one side and on the other side weaker glutes and weaker lower abdominal muscles. Weaker abdominal muscles, weaker glutes because you’re not using glutes to step up or squat or lodge and then you’re getting these shorter, tighter hip flexor muscles and that’s the lower crossed syndrome, right? One cross is weak and loose or weak and tight, that’s your hip flexors, the other one is, um, weaker, that’s the glutes and that is the lower abdominals. And so, this is common and so people talk about investing a lot of money in beds, right? I have a nice Tempur-Pedic bed, that’s pretty expensive. I know you have a nice bed as well but we spend just as much time in bed as we do sitting in our chairs all day, so I think, you should, people should have, you know, enough money invested in a really good chair that has good postural support. You can go to like different ergonomic stores. There’s one in Austin called Human Solution on Anderson Lane. They have a lot of great options. I got my stand desk from them. They have some really good ergonomically certified chairs that are excellent, that have the cervical support as well as the lumbar support. These are really good options to kind of start out of the gates. So, kind of my thing is start with like, you know, the easiest buy-in, right? The easiest buy-in out of the gates is upgrade your chair, maybe get some swiss ball that you can sit on, maybe get your desk, get your stand desk so you can go up and down throughout. These are just some simple, easy investments. And if you already have these things and you wanna get more kind of biohackerish-like we are, I have a Cubbi, little pedals here so I can pedal. I have my little, um, I actually got a new treadmill desk that’s under my desk that’s lighter and it goes four and a half miles per hour and I have a remote, I can just hit it. 

Evan Brand: Spell Cubbi. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: C-u-b-b-i. And then my other treadmill, hold on, let me go look at real fast. And my new treadmill desk is Rhythm Fun. I’ll put the links down for Amazon below. Take a peek at. But the cool thing is the remote because you can just kill it, turn it off, turn it on. Without having to go touch it. 

Evan Brand: Now, if you don’t sit at a desk all day, congratulations. Hopefully, you’re out working in the field or something like that, you know, years ago, I was working in the woods and building hiking trails and restoring different natural, you know, natural areas, nature parks and stuff but man, it killed my back. I mean, it was a lot of work, a lot of labor and not much pay at all, could raise a family on that wage. So, if you are out and you’re physically great, that’s awesome or if maybe you’re just doing that in your free time, maybe that’s counteracting your desk work. I mean, that’s what I try to do, it’s even in the middle of the day for lunch, I’ll just try to go out and walk around even if I just like hiking up and down my driveway. Just something simple, just to break it up. And I forgot what her name was, it was, uh, Joan Vernikos. I had her on my podcast probably almost like 10 years ago. I think she worked with NASA or for NASA, but anyway, she talked about the importance of just standing up and sitting down and just the change in posture was more important than anything. She said, it wasn’t necessarily the actual exercise, it was just breaking up you’re sitting. So, if you’re sitting for 20 minutes and then you can stand for 10 seconds, that was enough she said to, you know, positively impact your mobility.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, adding another 90 degrees of extension onto my hip flexors, right? If your hip flexors right at your leg to your hip you’re at 90 if you’re sitting. Well, if you’re standing you go to about 180, 160 – 180 right? So, I create more length to my hip flexor which means it’s less likely to get tighter and shorter and create lower back pain. And so, that’s the easiest thing, so there’s a lot of different buy-ins, right, so like we’re not trying to give a one-size-fits-all, we’re trying to say okay if you already have a good desk or already have a really good ergonomically supported chair, maybe upgrade into a stand desk or just get a simple physio ball. Ideally going from sitting to standing is ideal. So, I would say good chair, then go to a good desk and then if you wanna add a physio ball or a wobble chair, that’s great. And then, if you wanna go to the next level and get a treadmill that slides underneath, I think mine was 500 bucks which is great though. My other one was a Rebel Desk treadmill that I used for five years, I just got rid of it because of the belt, just like almost I wore though and I’m like doing the math. I’m like all right it’s about the same cost to repair it as to get a new one. That goes a little bit faster and I get the remote. So, that’s kind of where I’m at. So, there’s a lot of different buy-ins. Now, that’s kind of like the lifestyle exercise movement standpoint and remember, I’m not saying crazy exercise. I think the more you can get movement throughout the day that’s non structured is better. Meaning, if you can get 10, 15 thousand steps throughout the day where it’s non-structured throughout a 10-hour, 12-hour a day that’s good because if you just exercise for 30 minutes and you sit on your butt for 10 hours, is that really that good? You’re still sitting down not moving for 10 hours, that’s still not great. So, if you can get a little bit of movement in and you can also have a lot of unstructured movement, that’s even better, I think overall. 

Evan Brand: I would say so, I mean, I certainly can tell you the days that I exercise and then sit for too long, I’m just as stiff as if I did an exercise compared to times where I’m moving around throughout the day. So, yeah, I think throughout the day is better. Let’s get into some of the chemical stuff too, some of the infection stuff, I mean, I’ll tell you personally with some of the stuff I’ve had from tick bites. whether it’s Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia different things that create inflammation and affect blood flow, I would tell you that there are some waxing and waning periods like where hands, feet, knees, hips, that kind of thing can get tight and so I think, ultimately, you gotta test not test. So, you and I have talked about this before. Not all testing is a hundred percent accurate but we do feel that the DNA connections report does give us a pretty good read for different types of Borrelia that we can look into Lyme then some of the co-infections which the name co-infection kind of sounds like it always comes with Lyme, I do believe some people just have Bartonella or Babesia. And those things can really affect people in terms of mobility so for me, things like Japanese knotweed are very helpful and I take a tincture of Japanese Knotweed and of course we’ll mix that into some of the other stuff we’re gonna dive into but you have to investigate this. So, if you’ve got mobility stuff or if you sit for a while and you get stiff or if you’re having issues just making a full fist, you can’t fully get those fingers in, make a full fist, there’s probably something there, infection-wise.    

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, anytime you create chemical, so I kind of look at like, all right, we have structural inflammation and we kind of just talked about postural things like things that you’re gonna be doing sitting, standing kind of lifestyle habits, so not like going to the gym like, right? That’s kid of like our physical but you know more lifestyle. Now, we have our chemical and the more inflammation we put in our body, the more it decreases blood flow to tissues, the more it exacerbates prostaglandin 2 and arachidonic acid which are more pro-inflammatory. It’s gonna decrease inflammation, decrease blood flow and then we, when we, sorry, increase inflammation and decrease blood flow, decrease oxygen, so when we do that, the tissue starts to become less pliable, right? So, think of like beef jerky, very like not pliable, like you have to rip and tear it. The more inflamed you become, the lack of blood flow that you have, right, the lack of nutrition to the muscles, the more your muscles become less pliable, less like a nice raw beef tenderloin and more like beef jerky. That’s not good. So, when you do movements, you’re more likely to tear and injure tissue. And obviously, if you tear muscle, that’s more vascular tissue, it has good blood flow so it can heal better. But as soon as you start affecting cartilage and tendons and ligaments, that tissue is very avascular, very poor blood flow so it’s gonna be very difficult for that to heal. So, big things that we can do is, you know, more vegetables less fruit and carbs so keep your carbs in check. Again, if you’re more active, you can do more carbs, be very careful of your Omega-6 vegetable oils, ideally, you know, two to one on your high-quality saturated fats, really important and then you can do on your vegetable side, you’re better off doing your mannose, right? Avocado, olive oil, be very careful of your nut and seed-based oil and your omega-6 like sunflower, corn, soy, canola, very inflammatory and of course things like gluten, processed dairy, processed grains, sugar, these things are gonna drive more inflammation, they’re gonna decrease blood flow and just when the more inflamed you are, it just, it can create a lot of inflammatory molecules going through the body and they just make your body more stiff, more inflamed. The more stiff you are, you can’t get full range of motion, your tissues start becoming less pliable and easy to tear and injure and you feel just more stiff throughout your movements. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. And then on the conversation of Lyme, for example, I mean, we know that Borrelia, in general, likes to eat up your collagen, I mean, it’ll really try to hid out in joints and such, so I think, collagen supplementation may be helpful too, just trying to replenish some of what’s eating up. But then, you just got to clear some of the infections, I mean, I’ll tell you, if I’m doing some of the anti-Borrelia formulations whether personally or clinically, people can move better. So, if you’ve had tick bites if you grew up anywhere, almost anywhere in the U.S. except for maybe Nevada or New Mexico, supposedly there’s not many ticks there. But beyond that, if you have tick bites from childhood, I mean that could be a factor to look into. This could be a dormant infection that’s left you alone for 30 years and then all of a sudden, you got exposed to mold or you had a death or a divorce or a move or a major job stress or even just the pandemic that’s been going on. And some of that stress people out of the sudden, boom, they have these major joint problems so who knows, there could be a trigger but like you said, it could just be, over time lack of blood, inflammation together. So, what about, like..

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All these things modulate the immune system, right? And so, like, what you’re gonna see is you’re gonna see an increase in arachidonic acid, which a lot of these things are come from meat, so it’s not bad to have too much arachidonic acid but if we increase prostaglandin 2, that’s a more proinflammatory pathway. So, vegetable seed oils, omega-6, too much arachidonic acid but if you balance it with omega-3, high quality grass-fed meat which is very high in GLA. It’s not necessarily the fact that you’re getting it, it’s more of the ratio of where you at with the others and so that’s why, really what’s gonna tip you over is the processed sugar, the hydrogenated oils, the trans fats, the soy, the canola, the sunflower, too much nuts, too much seeds, that’s gonna tip you over and put you into a more proinflammatory state. And then the more sugar you eat, the more grains you eat, the more your tissue starts to become less pliable. Now, I have a history, like, doing applied kinesiology work and using percussion work, and um, chiropractic work. I remember working on a patient and they literally, their tissues literally felt like a bag of cement and this person, like, couldn’t like, so we would use a percussor, we’d do some soft tissue but we, I noticed that when we got gluten out of that person’s diet and grains out of that person’s diet and sugar out, the tissue quality totally changed and it’s like if you’re inflamed and you have such poor movement, you’re not gonna want to move but then if you don’t move the tissue gets tighter and if it gets tighter then now you restrict your range of motion and you’re, it’s a vicious cycle, right? So, you kind of have to get some movement in there, you have to loosen up the tissue, you have to make the diet changes so you get better blood flow but you got to work into it because if someone’s coming in, really inflamed and they go too over the top, they may create so much inflammation that they have a paradoxical reaction to feel worse, so you really wanna ease into it. And so, if you’re not used to walking, just walk a little but try to exercise just enough where you repeat it. That next day, you may feel a little bit sore but you can still function, you can still do all the things you do. If you feel too sore the next day, where you can’t do what you have to do, you probably did too much. So, just enough to feel it and know you did something but not enough where it affects your you being able to function.   

Evan Brand: Yeah. I got a few physical therapists clients and they tell me straight up that they know they’re never fully gonna get their patients better because of their diets and these people are coming in, you know, they’re eating like a subway sandwiches as they walk into the physical therapy office, so the physical therapist doing the best they can but they know just listening to us that they’re never fully gonna get them better without the diet changes and then they’re like well that’s out of my scope of practice. I can’t, you know, educate them much on diet so I’ll try to hint at it but yeah. It’s sad because you see billions and billions of dollars being spent per year on physical therapy, occupational therapy, physical rehab, that kind of stuff, people maybe had car injuries, for example, where there was a traumatic event that led to this mobility problem but then they never fully recover because they go right back eating the RB sandwich, you know, the roast beef and the bread and the ketchup and they never fully get better. So, I think, there’s a place, hopefully, people pick up on this, you pass this information onto maybe a physical therapist, get people off of grains, get people off of dairy, at least temporarily of dairy. I think butter, there’s maybe a place for that in most people’s diets. But I will tell you personally, I’ve seen the changes in my own family members if we can get them off gluten or off grains even for a month, we see improvement and so it’s just this doesn’t make money for people, I mean, there’s so many pharmaceuticals that people are taking instead, right? What’s the conventional approach for these issues like Aspirin, Tylenol, maybe Aleve and maybe some anti-inflammatory steroid drugs, right, I would say in severe cases, those are being useful. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, you have your, like NSAIDs, which are gonna be like your Ibuprofen, your Advil, your Aleve, right, I think your Aleve’s kind of your time-release Ibuprofen, right. These are gonna help with the prostaglandin 2. And then acutely, you know, for a couple of days, if something happened that may not be a bad idea. The problem is if you’re chronically needing these medications that’s the problem. And then you have your acetylsalicylic acid, that’s your aspirin and then you have your acetaminophen, which is Tylenol, again Tylenol blocks the pain receptors so it’s not an anti-inflammatory. Aspirin is a mild anti-inflammatory. Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammatory. And then you keep on going up into the steroids where you actually get an injection, the problem with that is after one or two injections, your anesthesiologist or your pain doctor will tell you, yeah, we’re gonna start to break down tissues and cartilage and tendons, that’s not good either. And so, I tell patients, you know, one, you don’t wanna jump on injections right away because you want there to be some pain signal to tell you you’re doing too much when you’re rehabbing. So, it’s good to have some pain signals that will tell you, ‘hey I’m doing too much because the problem with this medication is it covers up the pain and then you may be doing things in your life movement wise, it’s actually creating more pain but you can’t feel it right. So, then of course, you go up the ladder and you’ll eventually be on opiates and that’s the problem and that opiates are very addicting, it’s just basically telling it’s blocking the brain’s ability to perceive pain and then essentially the longer your on an opiate, um, you know Suboxone, of course, you have the incredible, your morphine post-surgery, you have Fentanyl which is like incredibly higher version above your oxytocin which is like time-released opiate, it rewires the brain and you start to need more of it to then block that pain signal and then that creates more addiction right. So, you really wanna not be on these pain medications. Now, my problem with physical therapy and chiropractors is that a lot of times they can apply therapy that does not fix the underlying issue. So, chiropractors are very notorious for just, you know, adjusting a segment of the spine and creating some movement on that spine and calling it a day, right? But, if the person’s inflamed from their diet and lifestyle, that’s not helping it and also the soft tissue component should be addressed. So, when I was a chiropractor doing these kind of work, we would do like, percussion, I’d have a percussion instrument, just a couple of minutes to get the tissue warmed up and that way when I would adjust, I wasn’t having to adjust through all this soft tissue that was so hard, the soft tissue was more loose and I could move that segment and I’d always talk about how we get some better movement in the spine with exercise too because you wanna, you don’t want only movement in that spine to be through adjustment right? And so, getting these soft tissues under control using some active release techniques to help lengthen the muscle, help break up fascial adhesions, super, super helpful and so physical therapy, they’re notorious, oh I have knee pain, let’s just focus on that knee, maybe they do like an anti-inflammatory you know, uh, Russian stim or microcurrent or ultrasound, that’s good from an anti-inflammatory standpoint but physical therapy is common, we just only exercise that joint, we only stretch that joint, that’s it. They don’t look at the instability above and below the joints. Joints are very rarely just become unstable at that joint unless it’s an acute injury, someone took out your knee, it’s usually there’s instability either above and below so a good chiropractor, PT person will make sure the joint above and below is doing well. If I see knee issues, I’m gonna make sure there’s good glute activation, I’m gonna make sure that the hip flexors are facilitated, they’re not overly tight, I’m gonna make sure glute mi, glute max, all the adductor muscles in the middle are doing good. I’m gonna make sure the tip fib joint at the ankle has good stability. I’m gonna look at everything above because if there’s instability above and below that knee can compensate and have to work harder. So, I’m gonna make sure all the muscles around the knee, the glutes that stabilize the hips, the hamstrings that go to the glute that go up to the hips and also help stabilize the knee, the sartorius, the gracilis, semitendinosus, and semimembranosus, make sure everything is stabilized. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. You and I have coached many different, uh practitioners, a lot of them chiropractors and so many of them tell me, I’m just straight up sick of cracking backs for a  living because they know they’re gonna have to come back every week, they’re gonna crack the back again and then they’re gonna send the patient on their patient on their way and they’re never gonna get better and when I was working out of that brick and mortar practice and I started doing functional medicine consults, doing lab testing, getting all of the existing patients in the clinic, simply to make diet changes, it was funny but I guess not so funny for his bottom line, the chiropractor I was working for because, now instead of Betty needing to come in every week, she’s like no I’m fine doctor, I’m gonna come in in two weeks or three weeks or four weeks and it’s because the underlying inflammation was improving based on me fixing the gut, getting the diet improved. So, it’s kind of funny because people got in this routine of like, I’ll see you next Friday. It’s like, she shouldn’t need to be cracked again next Friday, you’re cracking her today, like what the heck.    

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It just depends how acute. If it’s an acute episode, you know, you’re gonna need to do it more frequently the first couple of weeks but if it’s more of a chronic thing, yeah you gotta get the soft tissue under control, or you gotta get the systemic inflammation in the body to the diet under control. And if you’re a chiropractor, you definitely wanna look at upper cervical, right, C1, C2, malalignments can create a lot of problems so that you definitely want to make sure that’s kind of crossed off your list because that can really cause a lot of issues and that could be a root cause as well but most people, it’s like poor posture, poor sitting, not enough movement, crappy diet, lots of inflammation and then of course, you know, muscles can also pull joints out of alignment too and cause them to feel sticky too. So like, I find the best chiropractor are like the applied kinesiology chiropractors because they would like use a percussion instrument even just for a minute or two is huge or they would do like origin insertion work, they would do like SOT technique, which uses blocks to get the hip alignment better I found those techniques were really helpful for chronic back issues and then when you have disc issues too, like you need to pump that back whether it’s a flexion distraction technique to help open up that disc, whether it’s an inversion table or whether it’s an inversion table or an inversion device for the neck that goes over the door or cuff to kind of create that negative pressure to pull that disc in off the nerve roots can be super helpful but then you got to get the muscles train down the road so a good PT or a good postural program like you can start with Eric Goodman’s foundation training. There are a couple of really good PTs online that are excellent, Bob and Brad, they go, they do a lot of nice postural videos at home stuff that are very helpful to people that are in pain. So, those are good guys, I’ll give them a, you know, a hot tip. Anything else you wanna highlight on the structural stuff we can go talk about the supplements next. I think that’s a good kind of ending point. Anything else, Evan? 

Evan Brand: Now, let’s move into the supplements, I had already mentioned like some of the enzymes, so I mean, we’ll use some of those and we often use these in combination, I mean sometimes people are taking so serratiopeptidase or I’m even personally doing lumbrokinase, I do a lot of lumbrokinase too because that’s like way more potent than serratiopeptidase and so we use that for blood flow problems with some sort of coagulation issue so whether it is an infection or mold toxin, Lumbrokinase, it’s a game changer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But I want to hit that one. I wanna just hammer that one spot for a second. If you have poor blood flow which diet and infection can drive poor blood flow, if we can’t get the blood flow improve, we’re not gonna get the inflammation out and nutrition and oxygen in so ginger, the enzymes getting your diet under control, one of the biggest things that helps coagulation, if we decrease coagulation, we improve blood flow, we improve blood flow, we improve oxygen, we improve nutrition, we work on pulling inflammation out, that’s like a foundational mechanism to getting pain under control.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. And there’s a lot of issues we’re seeing with post-viral coagulation issues or even acute coagulation issues, so make sure if you get some viral stuff going on, you gotta be knocking some if that too and we’ve seen people that are having chronic issues months and months later. So, to be honest in the time that we’re under I am personally staying on and recommending a lot of clients stay on some sort of enzyme just as an ongoing coagulation support, I think it’s a very, very smart insurance policy.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. And when we talked about these enzymes, for people that are listening at home, these are enzymes you take with food, we’re talking about enzymes we take an hour away from food on an empty stomach, you know, some of the best ones are gonna be the Lumbrokinase the nattokinase, the serratiopeptidase. Some are really good at taking them, um, enterically coated so they break down in the small intestine away from food so they get into the bloodstream. These enzymes can one break up scar tissue, they improve blood flow and they also can decrease a lot of interleukins and cytokines that are flowing in the bloodstream. So, if you’re chronically inflamed and you have a lot of these cytokines and interleukins in the bloodstream, these chemical messengers from inflammation, it can actually start to break them down a little bit, which is good. So, that starts to relieve pain. Now, if you get to the root cause, where you’re getting some movement, you’re working on your posture, you’re working on sleep and diet. This is powerful because now that starts to accelerate healing even better faster.   

Evan Brand: Yeah. And these are proteolytics so when you’re like researching these proteolytic enzymes as opposed you said the ones you’re taking with food are digestive, so they’re still called enzymes. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Two different things and they cost a lot more too than digestive enzymes. They’re not the same price. 

Evan Brand: Right. Yeah. Like Lumbrokinase, I mean a bottle of it, retail on the one we use which is the Bolouke from Canada RNA. It’s like the best one, as far as I know right now. It’s like 98 bucks a bottle retail. So, it is pricey but man it’s incredible stuff, I mean in terms of hands and feet, my blood flow is incredible. That plus beet powder, which is maybe another thing I’ll go ahead and mention now increasing blood flow, I do like beet powder and I will use some of that supplementally. Yeah. Arginine, citrulline, I’ll take some those in liquid form and I’ll mix those together and drink it all down. Those can be very, very helpful. You mentioned ginger too, let’s talk about ginger because you’ve talked a lot about ginger for like nausea and digestive benefits but you and I were looking at some of the papers on it and it does have a lot of really anti-inflammatory benefits too. So, that’s kind of cool, we’re saying that it’s a digestive aid but also a systemic inflammatory aid, correct?   

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I try to add things into protocols that just have a wide net so I love ginger because (1) it’s a natural bitter, so it will stimulate digestive juices, (2) it’s an anti-inflammatory so it’s very calming, (3) it’s a prokinetic so it helps the digestive tract empty because if your have like some kind of chronic inflammation or gastroparesis, food and acis can sit in there too long and create burning, (4) it helps with coagulability so it helps with coagulation so it decreases it, so there’s less clotting so you improve the blood flow, it also helps with blood pressure as well. So, a lot of and then also it’s an antibiofilm, so if we’re using ginger, um, to help with like, you know, killing it, it can actually help strip the biofilm, which are the protective shields that bacteria use to prevent themselves from being killed so it helps with the biofilms which allows the herbs we use to be even better and again the enzymes we use also help with biofilms too. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. A cool study here was just saying that in rat models of liver cancer, ginger extract counteracted oxidative stress and inflammatory damage and it restored levels of superoxide dismutase catalase glutathione and prevented an increase in COX2, which is one of those pathways you and I were talking about that like some of the natural NSAIDs work on, ginger is basically a natural COX inhibitor. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It modulates, right? The problem with a lot of the COX inhibitor drugs of the early 2000s like Vioxx COX is called cyclooxygenase enzyme 2. That enzyme is also very important for repairing the gut lining and repairing the heart. So, if you block that all together like Vioxx did, you can destroy the heart and the gut lining, so with herbs it tends to more modulate not overdo it but bring it down in a modulatory kind of gentle way, kind of like an adaptogen works for adrenals and cortisol and stress. Shut it down but it pushes it in the right direction. 

Evan Brand: That’s an awesome way to think about it. So, ginger is an anti-inflammatory adaptogen? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yep. 

Evan Brand: Pretty cool. Okay. Let’s hit the others too because there’s others we use in blends, how about some of the polyphenols like the quercetin, the rutin, the resveratrol, the rosemary. I talked about Japanese Knotweed earlier, the main benefit of the knotweed is because of the resveratrol in it.   

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s Japanese knotweed. That’s very helpful. Yep. 

Evan Brand: It’s amazing for like rheumatoid arthritis, like I said Lyme type of arthritis, which a lot of RA probably is Lyme but it’s been not properly diagnosed. So, I love those. I personally take some sort of that all the time. You know, quercetin, I love too, it’s in the vitamin C family. I love it because it’s a great mast cell stabilizer. So, if you are dealing with mast cell activation in the case of mold toxin or Lyme or Bartonella, Babesia, Borrelia, Mycoplasma, any of these things, even viruses that are triggering mast cell problems and you have all this histamine out in your system, the quercetin is really gonna calm that down so that’s why I love it. And you can do too much of the good thing but in general something like 250 to 500 milligrams 3 times a day of course for me is a game changer. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I would say next, we could do curcumin much better off to take it liposomally that’s very important. So, liposomal curcumin also, you know, make sure you cut out nitrates, nitrates and of course grains and refined sugar can create joint issues, so you’d be surprised how many people that have many chronic issues just making those changes help. So, liposomal curcumin for better absorption. 

Evan Brand: Why the nitrates? Will you riff on that for a minute because nitrates..

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The alpha-Solanines, their compounds, their anti-nutrients in the nitrate family, tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, peppers, these alpha-Solanine can get into the joints and they can kind of create a lot of inflammation similarly with people that have oxalate problems. Oxalates can get into the joints. These oxalate crystals and create a lot of pain issues in the joint tissues, in the muscle belly too. Now, again, I don’t go into oxalate restriction out of the gates because there’s a lot of healthy foods that have oxalates in them. Spinach and green vegetables. So, if someone’s coming off of a processed food diet, the last thing I want them to do is not to be worried about oxalate because that restricts a lot of vegetables. So, I don’t worry about oxalates out of the gates if someone’s diet’s crappy. So, I would just, I would work on their diet very clean and then potentially in some organic acid test that we do, we could see if oxalates are really high. If do they have a history of kidney stone problems, those kinds of things are helpful.  

Evan Brand: Well, yeah, don’t forget to mention too, Candida, I mean we’ll see oxalate. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A ton from a kid’s problem. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. So, I’ve seen people on like a low oxalate diet for years, they still show up off the charts and they’re having these joint pain issues, we simply just fix the yeast overgrowth or the fungal problems and then the oxalate markers go down and their joints are better. So, make sure that when you’re doing a work-up on these type of issues whether it’s mobility or pain or otherwise, make sure you’re looking for these fungal colonization markers, you’re looking at the Candida, you’re looking at some of the bacterial overgrowth because all of these things are gonna act as we’ll just say toxin in the bucket and if you get this infection plus that infection plus yeast then you really have much, much higher chance of having these problems and you go take the ibuprofen, you’re not knocking any of that stuff out. The yeast is still there.   

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110%. So, the oxalates, maybe more of a yeast issue, not necessarily an oxalate problem. So, something we add to our list, we can use, uh, things like Boswellia or Frankincense, very, very helpful, very good. Again, these things, how they’re working is they’re primarily modulating interleukins, they’re primarily working on cytokines, reducing some of these inflammatory compounds they may be working on the COX enzyme C-O-X-2, they may be working on nuclear factor beta, right? These are different inflammatory signals or chemical messengers, uh, may be working on prostaglandin E2, so they may be helping a lot of these things. So, we have to make sure if we use supplements though we’re not just covering it up like a band-aid, we’re actually trying to get to the root cause. So again, herbs tend to be better than like an ibuprofen long term because these things kill tens of thousands of people a year, not in the right way. Go look at Wolf et. al., 1998. New England Journal of Medicine Ibuprofen kills 19,000 people a year taken incorrectly. So, using these medications like Ibuprofen or NSAIDs in the short term may be fine, it’s the long-term use because you’re not getting to the root underlying issue. The nice thing is if you use the herbs and the natural things, long-term, there’s virtually no negative impact using those but again we’re not still getting to the root so use the herbs and the natural stuff long term to get to the root, get to diet things, that’s your best kind of foundational things. We can also add in some CBD oil, which is very anti-inflammatory. Anything else you wanted to highlight supplement-wise?  

Evan Brand: I would say magnesium would probably be one other one that’s located.. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great muscle relaxer

Evan Brand: How about, also, some of the herbal muscle relaxers too, I mean like Valerian and Passion flower, there’s some benefit from these. There is kind of a dual purpose, right? You could use it for sleep. Yeah, poppy would be good too. You could blend all those as kind of a sleep but also like a pain remedy and then I like topical magnesium also I love the Epsom salt bath. I like it more in a float tank though. I mean, Epsom salt bath, you’re like what a couple of pounds at most whereas a float tank, you’re getting 800 pounds, so just not eating.. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I still absorb a ton though; I just do my fit. Just like a scoop or two but I still feel a huge difference but I agree if you can do the float tank, great, but if not that’s still a good in-between at home. Try it out for sure. 

Evan Brand: If I was like super stiff and I’m like my God, I can’t move, I’m going in a float tank because, I tell you I’m so flexible in there like when I first get in that so folks listening, this is basically like a large bathtub with 800 pounds of salt give or take. Super filtered water, it’s warm, it’s your body’s temperature, you take a shower, it’s usually at a spa setting, you get in there, you float on the surface of the water, you have your own little private float tank or float room usually and you’re just floating there and you’re there for an hour and your nervous system relaxes, they’ve used it for trauma and PTSD, so in terms of mental benefits, there’s incredible anti-anxiety benefits from it, but for physical too also, I tell you man, when I’m in there I fell, I mean, I feel like I’m made of jelly like, I mean I can just move so much better. One of my things. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would say, that, you know, from a nutrient standpoint amazing, a good myofascial release massage person, a good active release chiropractor, some kind of soft tissue technique, even if you’re doing, um, you know, foam rolling or get one of the hypervibe percussive tools at home. Just something to improve pliability, add in some of these nutrients that we mentioned CBD, curcumin, resveratrol, anti-inflammatory, I think also incredibly underrated collagen, I mean I do my true collagen 20-40 grams a day, um, collagen is a building block of your connective tissue that we don’t get a lot of because we’re not getting the knuckles and the bones unless you’re doing lots of soups with the whole carcass in there, we’re not getting these nutrients. So, adding extra collagen is essential for good building blocks or your joints and connective tissue.  

Evan Brand: I would agree. I mean, a forgotten nutrient that we just don’t eat in our diet, you can’t get that at a steakhouse, I mean, you’re just getting lean muscle. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unless, you’re getting bone marrow, unless they cut the long bone and they have all the marrow for you and eat that, that’s the only way you get it. Work in soup but most people aren’t getting it and so we’re getting more muscle meat, so that’s a good step out of the gates. I mean, I had my little coffee here, I had 30 grams of collagen this morning. People aren’t getting it. 

Evan Brand: Sweet. So, regarding 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of anecdotes of patients, a lot of anticipations of just getting more collagen and changing their diet, huge chronic joint pain just shifting. 

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah. And yeah the diets used. So, yeah, I mean, labs, I mean we’re gonna look at stool, we could look at urine, we could look at blood too but you know but this is part of a work-up that we do, so if you need help please reach out. I’m sure we could get to something that hasn’t been found, I mean, even the Prevotella infection we look for in the stool like 75% of cases of Rheumatoid Arthritis are linked to in certain studies this Prevotella infection, which is the bacterial we test for. So, you’ve gotta look for the microbiome type issue, you gotta look for the deeper stealth infection issues, intracellular parasite type issues. There’s a lot of stuff too but we just have an approach to it, you know, we kind of peel back the layers here and we get to the root of it so if you need help, you can reach out. We both work worldwide with people via video and phone calls so you can reach out to Dr. J, it’s Justin at justinhealth.com or me, Evan Brand, evanbrand.com and like I said we work online so we’re very blessed to be able to help people in every nook and cranny of the globe and it’s a wonderful thing to be able to help people find things that they never found in 20 years of suffering and we just love to provide that, I don’t know, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, I suppose. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and you just mentioned some bacteria issues and different joint issues we know ankylosing spondylitis, which is an autoimmune issue that affects the lower back, your Klebsiella is a common bacterial imbalance, we’ll see affecting the lower back and causing AS that’s another issue, we kind of add to the list so very powerful. So, yeah, again evanbrand.com, justinhealth,com for me, we’ll put the list of recommended products and different herbs that we use in our practice clinically if you wanna support, uh, the podcast and support us, feel free click down below, look under the references and you can get all these things that we recommend for our patients and ourselves right down there. Anything else, put your comments below, we really appreciate you interacting, sharing with family and friends and most people that we interact with, we don’t even get a chance to see and they get benefit so we love to hear your stories and your success. Evan, anything else man? 

Evan Brand: Yeah. If you’re on apple either on Justin’s podcast or mine since we will publish these episodes on each other, make sure you give us a review, we would really love it on the apple podcast, it helps to keep us up in the top of the charts of health and fitness so we can provide real root cause functional medicine strategies, there’s millions of people out there suffering and maybe a fraction are gonna get to hear this so please sharing is caring. Leave us a review, tell us what you think the show deserves and we’ll love you forever. 

 Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks guys. Have an awesome one. Take care. Bye. 

Evan Brand: Take care. 


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Recommended Products:

Magnesium Supreme

TruKeto Collagen

Trucollagen (Grassfed)

Enzyme Synergy

Organic Grassfed Meat

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/how-to-reduce-inflammation-and-improve-joint-mobility-podcast-359

The Top 5 Ways Your Water Could Be Hurting You & How to Fix It | Podcast #350

We need to stay hydrated but is the tap water in your home safe? When we drink water at your house, it must meet strict safety standards as well.

Water can be contaminated in several ways, according to Dr. J and Israel. It can contain bacteria and parasites that get in the water from human or animal fecal matter. It can contain chemicals from industrial waste, spraying crops, and many more. That’s why it is essential to invest in water filters if you can or make sure that your water source is safe to avoid health problems in the long run.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:19 – Fluoride
6:06 – Chlorine
10:45 – How does Clearly Filtered work?
18:47 – Herbicides/Pesticides
19:56 – Pharmaceutical Drugs
26:03 – Contaminants Detected
30:53 – Benefits and advantages of Clearly Filtered


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s doctor Justin Marchegiani here. I have Israel Passwater on the show today. We are gonna be talking about water, water filtration, some of the top five toxins that may be in your water and hurting your health. So, really excited to have Israel on today’s podcast. Israel, how we doing today man? 

Israel Passwater:  Doing good man. Thanks for having me, Justin. It’s a great day, great to be here. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, really excited to have you on. Um, one of the reasons why I have Israel on, he’s an expert in water and water filtration and the different technology but Israel also has a product to it’s basically, the better Brita filter right. We all know the Brita filters, right. The problem with them, they make the water taste a little bit better but they don’t filter out a lot of the other toxins. In Israel, it’s a product that actually filters out more of the toxins and It’s a kind of a low-cost product to kind of get into the water filtration space and I’m really excited. I talk about whole house water filtration, a lot of counter top, um, reverse osmosis systems. Those are great, they also involve a little bit of install, you may not be at a property that allows you to do it. So, this technology allows you to do it passively. It’s like a Brita filter for your fridge but gets of more of the toxins and more of the crap out of the water. We’re gonna go into the technology and some of the things that we need to be avoiding in our water to have healthier metabolism. So first off like, what is the number one thing in water today that needs to be filter out that could be hurting our health? 

Israel Passwater: That’s a great question. It depends on who you ask, um, from our perspective fluoride would probably be the number one, because it’s in about 75% of the water supply, uh, internationally and nationally. So, that’s one that we believe to be in science has shown that there are, uh, issues or questions at least on the long term effects of that, uh, so typically when people are looking for, uh, like a water filter that will come about us, they say I’m looking for best water pitcher that filters fluoride or heavy metals or whatever it is you’re, you, you look on the news and you say, oh there was a contamination outbreak and there’s lead in the pipes and it’s in the water supply that’s where you know good parents like us will go and say, okay well, I need to find a solution to that. And that’s usually where people will find us without, oh wow clearly filtered. I think I’ve heard about them. If they haven’t heard of us, oh that’s pretty cool. So that’s usually the start of the journey is realizing that there is, uh, there’s toxins in the water and it’s not ah, oh maybe, oh gosh, I wonder if it’s really a real thing. It’s proven scientific. Um, so that’s usually where people kind of stumble upon us and not to start off with a scare tactic but again, that’s kind of what we do. We provide a layer of safety to bring help, people live healthier lives, you know, so we’re just. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, awesome, yeah. So, we have fluoride. Right now, there’s a lot of misconceptions on fluoride. A lot of people think of fluoride, they think of like, um, calcium fluoride, there’s some natural fluoride in the environment. You know, what we’re talking about is more of the Hydrofluorosilicic acid, more of the synthetic fluorides that, um, you know, a lot of dentists that are well-intentioned topically, may put on someone’s teeth to help make the enamel stronger, the problem is when you’re swallowing it, it’s a little bit different. It’s like seeing the benefits of sunscreen, so you don’t get burned and saying well let’s put in in the water and drink it right, so there maybe, you know, a lot of the data out there, maybe some of the benefits of fluoride, maybe more topical, but we’re talking about ingesting it orally. So probably not the best right? It’s good if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna be on a medication which fluoride is that you actually dose it. You don’t really control the dose when you put it in the water supply. So, I think that’s a good point and uh, keeping that out is beneficial and there’s a lot of studies if you go on pubmed and fluoride in the water supply and fluoride correlations affecting thyroid function and going down and even IQ going down. So, a lot of things there to kind of highlight from an implication standpoint. 

Israel Passwater: I hate going to the dentist. But last time you go to the dentist, they do the fluoride treatment, what they tell you to do, they don’t tell you to swallow it right, they say no, rinse your mouth out, right? It’s like, it’s like they go, okay well, that makes sense but then people realize that you had fluoride and stuff like chloride being in the water. It may serve a purpose but maybe not the purpose they intended it to do so. I think maybe good intentions or at the time in 1920s or 30s when they started fluorinating the water. It was because not everyone had great dental care and access to dental, dental health, you know, so again, the rationale for doing was much different, well, and then it also depends on who you ask but again that was one of the main historical pinpoints why they started doing that but as we know, doctors also used to recommend smoking for lung capacities too in the 1920s and 30s. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And even sugar consumption as well, and anyone that has a kid that has like, you know, typical Colgate toothpaste, go look on the back of it, right it says you know, pinky size, pinky size amount and then it says, if you swallow, call poison control. So you know, there’s some understanding that this stuff is harmful and it’s always better to use a healthier toothpaste as well and get the fluoride out of your water, I think that’s a good first step. Also, I think half of all cavities, I think in teenagers and caused by dental fluorosis, meaning too much fluoride actually, causing the enamel almost crack. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah. It’s an over-fluoridation that the concentration. So, yeah, there’s again, it depends on who you ask, but most people that have spent anytime and obviously you have looking and researching and I would encourage everyone and again, I’m a big believer because again, I come an educator’s background, um, again, I want everyone to do their own research, always like trust but verify, um, but the internet is a powerful place and there’s a lot of things, and Justin and I were talking right before we went live and I think the cool part about, you know, living in the society that we have and sometimes scary part is the access to technology that you have at your fingertips on your iphone, uh, stuff you can research, you know, if you have trouble sleeping at night. It’s like there’s a lot of information out there, so again, I like to encourage people, whatever you know, if it’s you know, our brand or another brand, whatever, just do the research, find out what your, what’s on your water supply and you know, be aware you know and obviously drive cautiously in that sense, you know. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. People are listening, if they’re really interested, I put a link down below for the clearly filtered water filter, justinhealth.com/clearly-filtered. It’ll be right below, so if you guys want to take a look at it, we’re going to just go into what those big toxins are and the technology in a few minutes. So, we hit fluoride, why don’t we go to chloride next, right, I mean chlorine has well-intentioned right? It has reasons there to kill bacteria and kill things like that, but the problem is they leave it in right and it kind of has a smell that everyone knows what that chlorine smell looks like or smells like, because of being in pools and stuff. Uh, let’s go over chlorine. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah. I mean it just depends, like again, the rationale for keeping chlorine in the water was that for transportation, you know, the idea was that they’re transporting in pipes long over long distances, you know that was the intent initially. But again, they’ve seen that chlorine vapor can cause long term damage to vital organs and they’ve there’s all sorts, there’s no reason they should be, uh, in the water supply. So, from our perspective, again, that’s another villain that people obviously don’t think about you know. They don’t think about it, oh it’s chlorinated. We’ll, that chlorine smell is, you know, what do you do when you get out of the pool, you rinse off right? It’s like you go to your face. Hopefully it’s salt water, you could. If you’re fortunate enough to have a saltwater pool but you know, what you go, you’re going to rinse off, you don’t want your hair to turn all nasty and green if you have blond hair.  So again, there’s all different reasons that you say, okay well yeah, that’s chlorinated but should I be consuming that. You don’t drink pool water, but again there’s lesser concentrations obviously in the tap water but it does exist. So again, another reason people find us say, okay well, I want to take the chlorine out of my water, oh okay cool, so.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And a lot of times with that motivation, it’s more of just the taste and the smell, they just want the water to taste and smell a lot better right. So, there’s more of an anesthetic to that right?

Israel Passwater: Great point. So, a lot of it, like, if you go on our website, okay, this is I don’t want to make this salesly at all but I think if you look up different types of, uh, the contaminants we remove, a lot of the ones that are cancer caused into parts per billion not parts per million, so parts per billion. Like you take a medicine dropper, drop it in an Olympic sized swimming pool, since we’re talking about swimming pools but stay with the analogy that you take a mess and drop or drop, one drop some of these things are poisonous and parts per billion and that’s considered toxic and you think there’s a lot and the concentration is a lot higher than a lot of these. So, again, people don’t realize this and once they start to realize, they go, oh my gosh that’s really my water and there’s lots of different ways you can check your local water supply and see what’s in there and it’s truly eye-opening and if not scary. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah.  And being a functional medicine doctor, I’m very concerned about gut health and I know chlorine has a lot of negative impacts on the microbiota in the gut too. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah. Oh, I forgot one of the things I was gonna say, a lot of the things you were talking about like odor so like chlorine. Like chlorine taste and odor is pretty standard like when you look at the industry for like water filtration kind of like benchmark. It doesn’t really much, but it’s like oh it tastes good, okay great, it must not be toxic. The problem is, most of the things that are cancer causing and you know, all sorts of detrimental things, you know like are, you can’t smell it, they’re odorless, they’re tasteless and you can’t see them because they’re microscopic. So that’s kind of going around with the sun, this illusion of safety, um, but again a lot of times you can’t see something that’s going to potentially be very harmful for you and your family. And that’s, I mean it’s scary but it’s true though so when people say, oh it tastes fine okay well or like, you know, I think my water taste fine because I live next to an aquifer or something like it. Again, the assumption is it’s safe but reality is that you know, most of the population has again with fluoride that 75 plus percent of the water supply is fluorinated, so. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then can’t chlorine convert to chloramine as well? Can you talk about that one?

Israel Passwater: Yeah. Uh, I’m trying to remember the process but yeah, they, It can, It can interact and one, the interaction sometimes can have detrimental effects as well. I’m blanking on the term, if you can prompt me that’s fine, but the point is these things shouldn’t be in the water supply anyway so, um, so yeah but yeah, so typically that’s how people find out about us or start thinking about us and that’s where we come in is like, a really good option, you know, so it’s like yeah you know, like I’m looking at your success pyramid, you know, like a lot lies underneath the surface and the same thing with water filtration. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It makes sense because they’re putting a lot of these compounds there because they’re trying to prevent, you know, the bacteria getting in the water along the way but in the end you’re gonna drink it and so it makes sense that there is some kind of end stage filtration that we put that water through before it goes in our mouth and we know if chlorine is affecting bacteria in the water well what’s what about all the eight pounds of bacteria in our gut. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah, it’s correct. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, it makes sense, we know 80% of our immune system is there. So, it’s gonna have negative impact with our microbiome, our immune function, so it’s good that we have ways to get it out.

Israel Passwater: Yeah. Especially if you’re immunocompromised too, that’s a real significant topic, you know, for people that are like yeah or just sensitive to certain things. You know, 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%

Israel Passwater: There you go. That’s our website, um, so

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I just pulled up on screen first thing, we hit the, um, the first thing we talked about was fluoride, we talked about fluoride and the Hydrofluorosilicic acid right? Before Hydrofluorosilicic acid, we talked about, you know obviously the percent removal. This is great and this is all confirmed via lab testing is that correct? 

Israel Passwater: Correct. Yeah. That was the thing I was gonna touch on too. Whatever you choose, okay, so like, when I’m talking to people that may or may not know about us or have you know, a medium  interest in water, you know filtration, um, they say, well okay well, you know, how do you compare to brands x, y, and z and go okay well, we do actually if you go on our website, we actually have a few comparisons like how we compare to like, you know like Berkey, Aquatru or some these other brands that you know are might be larger companies might have you know bigger marketing budgets but they again, when it comes down to it, it’s all what is testing is proven to do and then how was it tested, where was it tested and that what are the standards. So again, the cool part about our, uh, filters is they’re tested at EPA and NSF, uh, certified laboratory. Uh, we test stuff all the time, we actually just recently updated our pitcher testing so like for now we’re, uh, up to 273 known contaminants. Oh yeah, that’s a cool video too if you have ever wanted to check it out like the red dye test. But it just kind of gives a powerful visual of you know what our filters are doing and again imagine the red dye being toxin xyz. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Toxins, yeah exactly. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah. The cool part again, again our filters are tested. They work and again we feel we have the best option in the space or and again we’re not the only option but we’re probably the best, uh, as far as when you’re looking at water pitchers especially or our point of filter systems like our under the sink or inline filter for your refrigerator, I mean, we really in, again, we have bottles so we kind of fit in the niche of like between like, hey I don’t want to put in a whole house system because there are some good house systems like as you and I were kind of chatting about yeah, but I want something portable, I want something I can take with us, something I’m renting a house and I want to be able to have clean and safe water for my family, we fit in really well, there so. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Very cool. So, let’s continue to hit, so we talked about fluoride, we talked about chlorine which I think is really important for all the reasons, we mentioned chlorine right here 99.5 and also the chloramine which is a metabolite too so we’re knocking a lot of these down. Let’s go into the plastics. I think this is really important because of the microplastics so you have different plastic compounds BPA, various estrogen chemicals. You could probably put, um, pesticides, perforated chemicals in there, different chemical pesticides runoff.

Israel Passwater: Yeah. A lot of time, they think, well how do microplastics or like us pesticides end up in the water supply because when you think about it, you know, I see you know, neighbors of ours out there were like you know roundup  and which is equally horrible but they’re spraying killing weeds and stuff I got to go but what people don’t understand over long periods of time that ends up and seeps into the water supply and then again local municipal water department doesn’t necessarily have the tools in order to filter that out, you know, so again, the assumption of hey it’s safe or with microplastics  a lot of industrial runoff, you know, we build and create things and that ends up also in the water supply too so there’s a lot of different ways because of runoff and seeping and leaching over long periods of time that can come downstream to us and things that we’re just becoming more, uh, clear about it, more, uh intentional about, um, I think that what again why people go. Oh my gosh. There are actual pharmaceutical drugs or another one. How are pharmaceutical drugs..

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly

Israel Passwater: Well and yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly. With a lot of these chemicals too, a lot of times they’re still like pecs, piping that’s plastic, there’s still some plastic piping. So, a lot of these things may be running through that as well 

Israel Passwater: Which are not BPA-free as we know so and yeah and again BPA is limping like all sorts of nasty stuff too. So again, It’s really just kind of like a systematic like, aha, moment like, oh there’s a problem with my water supply potentially oh okey tell me more about that and that’s typically where people like I said like gravitate to and again gravitate it doesn’t have to be us but again we are certified to remove more contaminants than most of your, your top brands, you know, so uh, again, we feel like we have the best big mousetrap to use the term you never talked about, um, and uh again sometimes, you know people ask me like about a compound, we haven’t tested for. I go, you know what probably but I can’t say it until we’ve proven it but again all of our lab test is available on the website, you can download it and take a look at it. So, the biggest thing, I would like to say too is like for anyone in that space and interested in that, do your research but ask, you know, if the testing data isn’t available on the company’s website or on the packaging, ask for it. If say, hey I want a copy of your testing data and a lot of they can’t prove that or it’s tested for five gallons or in-house. I’ve heard something on the radio today, you know, it was like yeah 4 out of 5 people said that they felt that better, I think it was like a like a protein powder or something like. I gotta go, I go, that’s a perfect example like oh trust me it works it’s fine, well we tested it in-house for people that are on the payroll, you know, so stuff like that, that’s what you have to pay attention to, you know.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep. That makes a lot of sense. Let me keep by hitting other things. So, we also just have general bacteria and viruses right, I know, that’s really important especially with what’s happening today in the world right, um, so viruses getting that out of the water whether it’s a Rotavirus etc. or just general bacteria, E. coli. Different various cysts, I know, parasitic cysts, Klebsiella, Giardia. These are all different microbes that could be in the water as well. Let me just show that here as well, that’s important. Tell me a little bit more about that and so you’re saying conventional water filtration, they’re not gonna be getting rid of some of these bacteria, cysts, viruses?

Israel Passwater: They won’t, because again they’re servicing like volume. So, one of the things you’ll notice too like when you first makes …, is that they’re again, it’s a catch-all. They’re doing, I would not say they’re doing there best, they’re trying to service a very large population because like at least here in California, is like, when they were building the infrastructure like yesterday, I assigned a new place ice hockey or driving on the freeway through L.A. and he’s going why are the roads so bumpy they go we’ll again because they’re old and they weren’t you know why are we hitting traffic well, they weren’t designed to service this many people. Same thing with the water supply. Again, when California’s infrastructure was built, you know, 100 years ago, it wasn’t planned. They weren’t planning on having this many people live or what again, great place to live, um, whether wise but gain from an infrastructure standpoint for water filtration like servicing a lot of customers and they can’t again. That’s why good filtration takes time, um, so like you know people know it’s like oh wow, how long does it take to develop your water pitcher, usually about 10-15 minutes. I go, oh wow, that’s kind of slow, no it’s actually good because it’s doing its job so, um, it really just depends on how you look at it but again trying to service a bigger catch, uh, a bigger net but against letting some of those particles and contaminants through because again, they can’t, they’re not set up to do that and that’s okay but knowing that you say okay well I gotta go take the next layer, the next step in order to protect my family and myself, you know, so

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That makes sense because it takes a while for water to fit through and if you’re trying to get millions of gallons out, it’s gonna be pretty costly and it makes sense to filter it source you know. I mean where it’s coming into the home so it’s most like that this should be just something that everyone should have anyway. So, they’re trying to make the water decently clean, so you don’t get really sick, taking it in but it’s still not gonna have the health properties that we need overall. 

Israel Passwater: Right.  And that kind of goes with the assumption of like, okay so like I have you know even if you have like a whole house system, some of them are rated different rates and some of them aren’t rated at all so it really like depends on it so again that’s the first step but the second step typically is like people like oh well I have a fridge, a refrigerator, LG refrigerator that’s got a filter and it has a light that goes on when I need to replace like filter and they say oh cool great and they asked the same question, oh well, what is the filter actually doing, they kind of have the deer in the headlights look like, I don’t know, I have no idea well it’s again the assumption of safety the illusion of safety is like oh it’s a filter okay it’s like a seatbelt was it crash tested, I don’t know, it’s the seat belt though, you know, so but again we wouldn’t again I’m kidding, it might be a poor analogy but like that’s the kind of assumptions that you walk around with like oh okay, it’s gonna filter okay cool. Well, what does it do, I have no idea but part is that we do have an idea and we can prove it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And we kind of already highlighted the herbicide that is a big deal because of pesticide runoff. It’s coming in from different farms, it’s going into our water supply and again this is like a wide category right, I mean, there’s all kinds of organopesticides and these affect our nervous systems. They are hormone disruptors, so they can really throw off hormones. This is a big one right. Any comments on the herbicides at all?

Israel Passwater: Yeah. I mean especially typically when someone’s asking about the herbicides and pesticides, a lot we have a lot of mothers are asking about that they’re expecting getting out..

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 99.99% out so this is great. So, this is really significantly reducing our reduction and just not cut you off but these things are really powerful at very low doses so you don’t need a lot of it to affect your body, right?

Israel Passwater: Correct. Yeah. They get effective dose on or the, the lethal dose but yeah it doesn’t take a whole lot in order to do a whole lot of damage, um, and that’s again a scary thought, you know. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% So we talked about pesticides that’s important because we’re getting exposure there, I would say the next thing, um, we talked about pesticides and herbicides. They’re kind of the same camp, right? In the same camp there, I would say the next thing after that I think is really important, um will be medications. Can we talk a little bit more about the medications and like statins, antidepressants so if even if we just like pee right these metabolites are going through our kidneys and they get into the water, right? 

 Israel Passwater: Well, because you think, like how on earth could like this kind of stuff be in the tap water and then initially when we started talking about this, I go really there you go, that’s, that’s a thing well yeah obviously our body filters it through our own filter system and it excretes all the toxins that’s what your body designed to do but that also includes trace amounts of insert whatever, uh, pharmaceutical drug you’re taking, you know, so that stuff shows up in traceable amounts in the water supply and people are kind of shocked when they find out, you know, like roundup. Okay I see like, my neighbors sprinting around up on his on his yard or something about ant killer or whatever the toxic thing yeah, I can see that it rains it runs down the drain it goes into the water suppl, makes sense but pharmaceutical drugs, you think, how on earth that well okay, when we think of it from us being the carrier or at least the disseminator of that or if you’ve ever dumped pills down the drain or down the toilet that can also end up with water supply too. So again, there’s a variety of ways that happens, um, but it’s something that we need to pay attention to, uh and something that’s very easily overlooked. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean just looking here on, on the list that you guys are actually testing right deep. That’s insecticides or you know, uhm spray for mosquitoes, right? 

Israel Passwater: You think, okay like that makes sense. You know but some of this other stuff is like, like way hardcore you know. So it’s like..

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This phenol A, obviously a plastic compound, a lot of the hormones that women maybe on which we don’t want men being on right?

Israel Passwater: Correct. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s like GABA medication, right? And then you have, um, just trying, I don’t recall some of these names, Naproxen, that’s some pain medication. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah. Again, I’m not a medical doctor, my degree in exercise physiology so like but again from a from health perspective, you think of all the things you do, during the week, you know, you know, like I’m a runner you know, it’s like, like training I’m running 60 miles a week, I’m stretching, I’m cross training, I’m taking some supplements, I’m trying to eat healthy and you know not drink too much or whatever it is you’re trying to do but again an easily overlooked one is like what, how, not just how much water you are drinking what kind of water are you drinking so that’s where really people go, oh, yeah you’re right, you know pesticides as we see, you know, its like, you know, those kind of things. They’re there, there proven and uh, I don’t know if you’ve shared with your audience 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For this handout people here, this is uh, anyone listening we have some stuff on the screen shared here. This is the actual lab assessing assessment testing on 100 gallons. This is cool. So, we’re seeing this is also getting removed like we know it and so on the website, you, kind of have it here right, you, kind of have it oh, you had it listed here, what was being removed but then we actually have the lab assessment here so that’s cool. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah. Yeah yeah.  And again, yeah, we’re going to be adding some features on the website so if you look over the next week or two or three. It’s gonna have some other tools that we’re adding not to tease it but again we, the way it kind of the way I see is like, you know, from not just like we’re not selling water filters will help them educate people too that’s obviously why you and I are connecting on the podcast today but I think it’s important to if you take away nothing else from this podcast other than, hey I maybe need to rethink what other kind of water filter or if you’re not doing it, go do some research and find out some of the ones that’s best for you because again like what I said we’re not the only company that does this but we’re the ones that do it, obviously a greater extent, um, and again we’re decently in our opinion very affordable, easy to work with, um, independently tested and certified. So, I can, I, I see it’s kind of a no-brainer but it really starts with in an individual saying, you know what let me think about that, let me see what, what is my fridge filter is doing or is it doing

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly. Yep. That makes sense. That’s good. I like that. So, we hit the fluoride right and get a big one, we hit a lot of the viruses and bacteria stuff and then we hit a lot of the plastic compounds we can put, like phthalates in that category, we have to put microplastics in that category. 

Israel Passwater: I’m trying to think of any, like the top offenders too, like for people but again you know, fluorides usually where people like or in heavy metals or where people start you know like..

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pharmaceutical drugs, right?

Israel Passwater: Pharmaceutical drugs, radiological elements, obviously, that’s one that we do too but I mean it really just depends on like everyone has a different you know top of their pyramid, they also have a different fear points here so they like whatever is most fearful of them or what’s most recent as far as exposure or you know, you know whatever that is again, we can service of those needs you know so and occasionally someone will say, well what about this and go well if we’re not certified to remove it we won’t claim it because we don’t know. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes sense.  

Israel Passwater: And it’s also too very costly and very timely to do this, so it’s not like we can’t just run down the street and have it done, it’s like no we have to have it send out and it cost thousands of dollars and so we’re very intentional about the ones we test for, um. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly. Yep. That makes sense. And so just kind of the big five, right, we have pesticides-herbicides, we have fluoride, we have chlorine, we have pharmaceutical drugs, right and we have a lot of the you know, heavy metal here as well too, mercury, lead. These are important right, a lot of pipes used to be lead, I mean there’s a reason why, um, plumbers are called plumbers, I think, what is it the periodic table for, uh, lead, I think it’s plumbum is, is lead, right? How, that’s I think Latin for Lead is like plumbum the, in the periodic table of elements Pb which stands for plumbum and that’s what plumbers got their name from because plumbers dealt with pipes that were literally lead so lead pipes and plumbers were kind of synonymous, so it makes sense there may be still old piping out there in certain areas so you want to make sure you’re pulling the lead out, pulling any mercury out, pulling any, uh, compounds out that could be problematic. So heavy metals, pesticides, plastic compounds, uh, then we would have a lot of our pesticides and then chlorine fluoride. So those would be our top five here today. Anything else you want to talk about regarding other problematic compounds we didn’t dive in deep enough on?

Israel Passwater: No, I, I think I would just encourage everyone there’s a fun open-source tool they call the environmental working group that’s the EWG. They actually have a database where you can pull up your zip code. So, you can punch in like mine’s 19694 so you know where I live now, but it’ll pop up but hey here’s the, the compounds that we found in your lab testing. Yeah, here we go, perfect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, here’s mine. This Austin, right here. This is Travis country, so you can look here, we see, 

Israel Passwater: Like, well, let’s see, like oh, there you go, yeah and again and also too I wanted to mention that a lot of these substances are regulated by the EPA, so they say well, you know, the EPA is there to protect us and they are but again a lot of these things aren’t regulated or if it’s regulated it’s not to a healthy extent because you shouldn’t be like chlorine, you shouldn’t be ingesting chlorine but it is regulated so

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, and then if we go here. Let me go pull this back up, right and we look at some of the testing, so we so in my area, I think the big one we saw was a lot of bromines, so there’s bromo, your bromochloroacetic acid, that would filter that out and we, I think we saw a bunch, um, you look at what else we saw there, the chloroform, so that that’d be that’d be your chlorine, right? 

Israel Passwater: Right. Correct. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Over there. 

Israel Passwater: And that’s the kind of the fun part is because you can thumb through and our goal is to be as transparent as we can, you know, so like I said, if there’s something we haven’t tested for, we just said, you know what we haven’t done that, we’ll put on  a list, you know, and were  constantly building a list and we’re constantly retesting you know, like I said we retested our pitcher, uh, this year and we’ll be doing the same thing with our inline filters but again, everything were certified to do, is like what we have proof of you know and it’s like yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Here’s your chloramine and here’s your, uh, your chloride. So, it’s then you can kind of go in there and say, okay cool like at least have some coverage, um, for some of these issues, so that’s good and high levels of chromium too. 

Israel Passwater: And yeah, I just want to mention, so this information is getting pulled from the universal database, so EWG just proved like, compiles all the data and then kind of google and then it kind of presents it in a very, uh, I think eye-opening way, um, so one of the cool parts is that you say well if you don’t believe me that your water supply is there’s probably something to be worried about, go here and then they’re a non-profit, we have no, we don’t paid by them or anything like that. So again, I like to show that is kind of like for someone who maybe new on that journey, um, towards, if either finding us or finding something else, say you should do something because you should consider this and that’s usually like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That makes sense. That’s great. I want to just compare the technology to like you know your general breeder. I’m on your site here right. Where’s the best way to go see that, I know that you have like a comparison on here. Is it a featured pitcher? Is that right side?  

Israel Passwater: Uh, yeah. The comparison I’m trying to think about the comparison, it already should, I should know this. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I went, I went through here earlier and I saw it and I thought it was really good. So, I’m gonna, I’m gonna put her around here as we, as we’re chatting to see if I can pull it up here. 

Israel Passwater: And I’m trying to think, I, we have like a blog session, a session section, excuse me, that like really showcases, like, some interesting articles like us versus Brita versus Aquatru, us or Insert brands. Again, like I said we’re not the only people that do water filters but again kind of goes through like, how we’re.. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Here it is. Right here. I got it right here. So, there’s, you know, you clearly filtered standard carbon, zero water, so let’s just kind of go through the big thing here. So the big one is obviously fluoride, microplastics, lead, a lot of the, um, the I think these are volatile organic compounds, right here. So, we’re really filtering a lot out so most are going to do pretty good. In regards to what’s probably more lead and then what else. Let’s, let’s use the easiest one, one of the easier ones to test for too and you know if you have any carbon block filter of any type, it should remove some percentage of that. So again, we never want to just like, to discourage other brands, that’s never my thing, it’s like hey whatever you are, you’re using even a Brita filter for example because they’re the most know brand because they’re been around the longest and they’ve had the most like a said the most marketing budget for longest time but again, it’s going better than drinking tap water, so it’s definitely better amount of good so that, which is a good thing you know so it’s like you know, hey well, you start here and then you move here and move up, you know, but uh, I think too, one of the things that keep in mind too is like, uh, when you’re looking at comparing like, brand A to brand B to brand C. You got ask yourself, you know, three main questions: how is it tested, is it tested, those are two parts and then to what degree, who’s testing it and then also to the other part is how long does it last, you know how easy is it to work with, you know, is it made domestically or is it made overseas that’s the one thing to consider, um. Again, all very important questions to consider when you’re looking at but I think the biggest thing is transparency because there’s a lot of non-transparent, uh, practices and a lot of unregulated. So, we try to be as up like I said as upfront as we can about with people and I think they appreciate that, you know, I do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s good. That’s good. Let’s talk about kind of what like the technology. So, if someone’s researching a brand, someone’s saying I want really investigate a water filter and what makes a water filter great and they want to look at different brands what should they be looking at. So, let’s kind of compare and contrast using the technology you have, how would you know, you’re dealing with good tech? Let’s just kind of contrast what you have and how people should be educated on this. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah. Yeah. Great question. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, I’ll put the screen back up here so you can, you can kind of use that as a guide to walk through it. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.  That’s fine. So again, our technology, it’s, it’s our own technology. It’s affinity technology, we’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars in multiple years coming up with the filter, uh, yeah, so we actually ever realized what was made up. Well, we don’t disclose the ingredients list but again we’re not using activated charcoal or bone char or anything that’s going to be problematic so it’s all, it’s all up and up and obviously if we’re tested so we need to update that graph, by the way sorry, um, you’re constantly finding things but yeah again the technology basically the way this simple elevator answer is your water supply or your water, uh, your water supply is polluted, we have a technology to remove it. Takes out all the bad stuff, the toxins, the chemical, the PFAS, the lead, uh, the VOCs, and retains the nutrients in the water so that. that’s the secret. So, a lot of times even when you look at like an RO system, RO systems aren’t inherently bad they pull everything out of the water and then a lot of that they added back in the salts and stuff like that. But the cool thing is like, with our filters is that we have the ability to remove all the toxins, so our filters are smart they’d be able to discriminate between filter or sorry between water, uh, nutrients and then toxin. So, that’s really where people go wow, that’s pretty cool and it is. It’s awesome. Like, I said, we put a lot time and energy into that, our design team is constantly working on ways to innovate, uh, we have some new things coming out that I can’t quite share yet but, um, things that I think will be really well received and making a little bit easier for our customers. But the big thing is, we know how to remove the bad stuff keep the good stuff in and the other stuff too, oh yeah, like I was saying, like with the RO systems, uh, they’re about 75% less water efficient, so for every clean gallon of water, it makes, it wastes three and a half gallons. So, for us, we don’t do that. So, we’re also eco-friendly, um, again all of our stuff like you see, our testing data is fantastic. Uh, it’s independently third-party test and lasts a long time. So again, we see it as like a slammed up for the right person who’s obviously open to that, um, but again when we’re looking at different types of filters, you know, yeah like I was mentioning, like our pitcher filter, it takes you know, 10 mins to fill the reservoir. Well, it’s doing its job. So sometimes fast is not a good thing. So 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! I love the, the water pitcher because one, it’s not expensive at all, especially when we know how important water is to our health. This is like, it’s just about prioritizing our health and knowing that 70% of your body is water and making sure it’s clean, right? You’re literally swimming in your water and if it’s clean then that’s great, if it’s toxic then it’s poisoning us, that’s a problem, and some people are in apartments and they’re traveling they haven’t the ability, so I love the ability to bring it with you and just put it in your fridge. So, I like this as a great option here. Can we talk so like, talk to me about the technology, so we have phase 1. There’s some kind of a medium, it’s flowing through like other brands are using charcoal or bone char. You have your kind of medium that’s a non-toxic medium that it’s, it’s moving through and then what’s, what’s there after that, like what’s the next step? So, there’s some kind of a filtration medium. What’s the next level up after that?

Israel Passwater: As far, as far as our filter or other yes

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s just for yours and then in general. What would other people have? 

Israel Passwater: Yeah, I mean, it’s again, think of layers, so it’s like, you think of like a layer cake, it’s just. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So just, I got the image up so we have like a woven mask, some people would have the charcoal with a bone char because that’s kind of step one, right?

Israel Passwater: Yeah. And then go to step 2, you can scroll through and then

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, then you have your coconut carbon

Israel Passwater: all right and then you go to step 3 and then combine the shell, kind of like holds it together and stuff like that. So again, it’s again, even if we gave you the ingredients list like coke for example, like no they, they keep that under lock and key, what’s the secret, you know recipe for coke, we know right, right part of the sugar, part of this diet, the other thing but again we can give you the ingredients list but the way it’s put together that’s really what comes together. So again, not the first people that come up with the idea like this but again we have the best one. So, uh, but again think of like a meshed layer that can woven together and again it’s how it’s put together and what stage and how it’s composite in and what not. I can’t say much more than that but again, that’s right

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, so most people are just primarily having this stage 2, right? It’s a kind of stage 2 thing or

Israel Passwater: Yeah. Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You kind of have your pattern on page one. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah. Right. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With your mesh and then you have the stage 2 and then you obviously your stage 3 compartmentalized at all. That makes sense. 

Israel Passwater: Most part, you’re not gonna take them apart inside like how is this put together it’s more like how fast is it doing, is it doing it and does the water taste good, again that’s just literally like the way I would have looked at it before, we started clearly filtering like, oh, okay, it goes, it’s going through, it’s not leaking, it’s not gonna leak into the reservoir. Okay great. Awesome. But again, stage 2 up for like a coconut carbon, it’s just like a block of, it’s gonna remove some stuff. That’s better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then we have all of our test results so we kind of know what it’s doing, that’s good. I like it. I think it’s great. If you guys wanna, if you guys enjoy the information and you wanna have an additional level to clean your water, justinhealth.com/clearly-filter. We’ll put the link down below, um, we’re just trying to provide a lot of education for everyone because, you know, I see a big gap in this field is, I recommend a lot of under the counter whole house systems but there’s a lot of people that, that can’t do that so this is a kind of a better mousetrap in that way, um, and we know water is so important. Anything else that, you know, Israel, that we talked about today, we didn’t go deep enough in, that you wanna highlight?

Israel Passwater: Yeah, no, I, I think one of the things too where we play really well is like you’re saying like on the go for people living in apartments and stuff like that. I think for, you know, just a skim, even when you’re traveling that’s why you’re getting more bottles you’ve got to wear filtered bottles which are kind of cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, you got a bottle too? See a filtered bottle that you can bring with you to. That’s great. 

Israel Passwater: Which is good because like you know, my wife and I, we went to Hawaii for work, uh, a couple of about a month and a half ago and it’s like we brought our bottles and I actually brought a pitcher because I go, I want that convenience it actually fits into the refrigerator for like you know a Hawaii size you know, uh, refrigerator. So, I was like, that’s pretty cool, so you know again, we played really well for, for we offered the service then obviously you know great technology, great customer service, um, again, transparent, easy to use, easy to work with and again you know that’s really why I think kind of fun part about us, helping people live healthier lives is that where it, it’s easy to do so

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool, so you got a portable bottle as well with that same mesh and activated charcoal technology that still filters out a lot of that while almost all the fluoride, all the chlorin, heavy metals, so it still has similar benefits as the actual. That’s great.  Wow. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah and most people like because they think like okay well I’ll have to fill up, you know, they have refilling stations at your gym, there’s nothing wrong with that but again they’re they have a filter on it but we’ll kind of filter it well, I don’t really know exactly and that’s where you think, well, you don’t have to worry about that it’s like or if you’re going to the airport now,  that people are traveling now, hope it’s kind of helpfully winding down, you know, it’s like yeah and now that people are back to going they’re really focused on that, so that’s something that you think from an economic standpoint and typically, uh, I believe the stat was most people are spending about 1200$ a year in bottled water so you gotta Costco get the coarse blend, you know, 24, 36, and 48 packs, that’s a lot of money savings too so again if it’s money if it’s you know obviously chemical reduction, uh, indigestion, that’s, uh, something that we can definitely help with, you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really good. Well in general, I think really important the solution to pollution is dilution. So you wanna have good clean water. Your cells need to regulate temperature, to pull toxicity out, run to help run our kidney, so really important to make sure kind of as a foundational right, clean food, clean water, good sleep, good movement, these are essentials to being healthy, so here’s another great product that I recommend, that recommend for patients and use myself that I think people would benefit from. Anything else, Israel, you wanna leave the listeners with? 

Israel Passwater: Yeah, no, I think the biggest thing is like, you know, where if, if they’re interested in, you wanna choose, that make sure you did your research like do your homework and that’s with anything if you talk about supplements, uh, anything again, we read you know the back of packages, you know what I’m eating, so the same thing goes  with like water filter so if it’s just us or somebody else, do your homework. Make sure you’re getting into, uh, I think that and we will shine after that but, uh, I think I really, it’s more just like I just again always encourage people to do their homework, think for themselves, question everything and that’s really important because again there’s a lot of misinformation out there or lack of transparency, um, so that’s kind of one of the downsides to our industry. It’s not very straightforward and so you really, really dig into the weeds there and again we’re busy too, I mean I work full time, my work works full-time, you’ve got a life, you’re trying to work out be healthy, you know, all those things but again, if you’re gonna invest in yourself, you can definitely want to make sure, you know, what you’re doing, you know, so if that goes with anything we’re not the whole piece of the pie but we are one piece of that, that’s overlooked like. I said, you know. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, yeah. A lot of people that already are using a simply, you know using a filter already and it’s just we’re gonna exchange it out for something better that’s gonna clean the water better and then also I always tell patients, I’m not worried about stripping minerals out, they’re always, they’re already good supplements out there, where you can pinch a little bit of minerals back in. It’s easy to re-mineralize, it’s harder to pull out toxins. 

Israel Passwater: Correct, yeah, correct. And remember, yeah like I said it’s a lot easier to do that than the opposite, you know, so that’s why obviously, we’re around and that’s why it’s something, the way I think it’s like, it’s one less thing to worry about, um, so if you worry about stuff being a parent, you know, being a healthy or not then you know, this gives you. One less thing, you know, have to consider, you know, if it’s at home on the go so. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anytime you can set like your health habits on automatic, like okay I’m just plugging this in and then I’m just gonna continue with my routine and then now, I have a higher quality food or higher quality water, you get the benefit, right? The more we can set these habits on unconscious competence where it’s just automatic, it’s always better. I love that. 

Israel Passwater: Yeah yeah and then one thing on the automatic too that, we’re talking about easy to work with, again, we have a subscription service so again, we ship domestically for free, uh, for anyone on our, uh, subscription and, uh, basically, the cool thing we need to talk about like not having a room with things I forget everything, you know, so I have to have everything written down or a calendar reminder, uh, but the cool part is you know, we can put it on auto ship so if you want one every two, three, four, five, six months, you control them, so the cool part is like that ability to be able to choose not to have to think about it or if you need to push it back, they can do that so again, we make it super easy for you, um, again, we have really great customer service team and we take good care of everybody, so  I think again, that’s one less thing that I have to worry about, you know, imagine like, you know you have that with entire rotation, somebody automatically does that for, you instead of having to go down,  the entire shop, get the oil change and entire rotation so we want to make it easy on you, you know but, um, that’s also powerful to know that you have full control of that too, so

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Anything else, Israel, you wanna leave enlisted with? 

Israel Passwater: No, I just thank you for your time. I’m really, I’m excited, I’m glad I get to be part of your audience and uh and here with you guys today and if they have questions, um, I don’t know if you want to funnel through you to me but they can, I can give you all my contact info, you can share that later too. I’m happy to give a resource to you, if I can and yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any questions you guys, put them in the comments that’d be awesome. You can always come back around on the youtube video and respond back and if you guys enjoy, I’m always trying to hunt down good products and this is definitely one we can add to that list. Everyone and then justinhealth.com/clearly-filtered and I’ll put the link down below. If you’re driving just go down below, first link, click it and you’re good. All right, Israel, phenomenal chatting with you, thanks for dropping all these knowledge bombs and have a phenomenal day. 

Israel Passwater: Thanks Justin, good to see you man. 


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-top-5-ways-your-water-could-be-hurting-you-how-to-fix-it-podcast-350

Recommended products:

Clearly Filtered

Water Filtration Device

Whole House Water Filter

 

 

 

 

The Nuts and Bolts of Your Mitochondria – How to Enhance Mitochondrial Function | Podcast #349

Have you ever thought about what powers are inside your body? In this video, Dr. J and Evan talk about mitochondria and how to boost them.

When we talk about your body’s powers, the easy answer is nutrients, of course! Our body transforms those nutrients into energy, and it’s that energy that boosts the cells in our body. All types of cells have small generators called mitochondria that, in many ways, are their sources for life. Mitochondria are the only part of the cell where our basic life requirements — food and air — are combined to make energy in a process known as the Krebs cycle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00:      Introduction
1:30:      The role of creatine in mitochondria
6:34:      Energy pathways
14:47:    Cell Danger Response
16:07:    Citric Acid Cycle

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mitochondrial function, your mitochondria, little the powerhouses in your cell and they help generate ATP which is the cellular currency of energy so to speak. And we’re going to talk about natural ways to improve mitochondrial function, Evan, and how we doing today, man.

Evan Brand: Doing really well. I think first, let’s dive into some of the big assaults that we have as a modern society on mitochondria. And that could be anything from viruses, bacteria, parasites, gut infections, pesticides, herbicides, heavy metals, plastics, phthalate’s, the BPA, the BPS, flame retardants, nonstick chemicals, car exhaust, air pollution. That I miss any I mean.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Like you hit a lot of I would say being sedentary. There’s a lot of mitochondria in your muscles. And if you don’t do enough, you’ll put enough force to those muscles, they will atrophy. And so just not doing enough about creating enough stimulus on your body. That could definitely we can and decrease your mitochondria in your muscles. So, I would say, sedentary and in active resistance through your muscles.

Evan Brand: OK, OK that’s a good point.  That’s a good point. So, you’re saying that, like, just in general, you have to have some level of physical stimulation physical activity to keep the mitochondria working. I guess it’s kind of like an old car that you’ve sat there…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All your muscles at least. Yeah, ’cause if you decrease, you know your muscle levels via just atrophy due to lack of use. Yeah, your muscles will shrink absolutely and that’s your mitochondria will shrink for.

Evan Brand:  Sure, what about creatine? Do you know anything about the role of creatine in mitochondria? ’cause I know when I’m taking creatine, I just I feel stronger? Obviously, there’s creatine’s used a lot in like bodybuilding world, but there’s gotta be a mitochondrial mechanism there because I’ll tell you I feel like. I can lift, you know, at least a good 1020 pounds heavier on particular exercises with creatine in my system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, me crazy definitely has an effect on growth hormone and improving growth hormone stuff that will help with muscle. Creatine is like instant energy for the muscle. So, it’s it’s there. It’s ready to be used right away in that first 10 seconds or five, five to 10 seconds of muscle use or like explosion movement through that muscle. So, that definitely plays a role in muscle. I’m not sure how it plugs in 100%. I see ’cause really you know with ATP right in the mitochondrial function? If you look inside the mitochondria you have glycolysis and then you have the electron transport chain. Or I’m sorry, you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle and that plugs into the electron transport chain. So, glycolysis that’s going to be utilizing the carbohydrate in the muscle right glycogen in the muscle. Fast immediate source. I think creating plugs into that top part. And then you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle, where B vitamins, magnesium. All these different things kind of plug into that and with that. With the citric acid or Kreb cycle, that didn’t mean the same thing. Essentially, they’re grabbing hydrogens, right? So, there it’s it’s a reducing agent, so it’s just grabbing reproduce. Reduction is a gain in electrons and so you have NAD goes around. Then it grabs NADH so you get 3 NADH and I think 1FADH2 so you have FADH. And it grabs another hydrogen and that becomes FADH2, and so it’s grabbing all these hydrogens. And then it’s essentially bringing those hydrogens downstream into the electron transport. Jane and Beta fatty acid oxidation there and so yeah, I think you generate was at 36 to 39 ATP through the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain.

Evan Brand: Unless you’re in like chronic fatigue stayed, this cell danger response, and I think you’re spitting out something low like 2 maybe 3 ATP. I’ve read about this cell danger response. They just call it HDR in the literature, but it talks about how. The cell danger response, could be initiated by trauma or a car wreck or even mold exposure or tick-borne illnesses, or viruses. There’s a lot of you know, Epstein Barr. You’ll see the link between like mono and chronic fatigue. It said that these people are in this state of just a low power output, or even if you have the nutrients, you’re just not generating the ATP with some I don’t know if it was Caitlyn or somebody that you and I had looked into where there was a talk on this about. How the w the the ATP was literally in the single digits. The low single-digit output in some of these states. So, the message here is that for people that have chronic fatigue, you got to realize there is a mitochondrial component to this. Why don’t we talk about testing a little bit? The main thing that you and I are going to look at is going to be the organic acids. I know there are some other tests out there. I’ll admit I’ve had clients send them to me such as the mito swab. I’ve not run the model swab. Personally, I don’t know enough about it to speak on it much, but I’ll just say that it does exist. I believe it is a a mouth swab and it’s probably looking at just a couple generic markers in the saliva. But we like to use the organic acids test because, as you mentioned, there’s the Krebs cycle metabolites on there. We can look into the supinate or what some people call succinic acid. You’ve got the malic acid. You’ve got fumarate. There are other markers on there, and we we see when people have talks and exposure. Like I said in the beginning, the heavy metals, the mold, the pesticides will see those. Mitochondrial markers go up. And the higher the numbers go, generally, the more tired someone is because that indicates more damage to that Krebs cycle. So, the oh is huge, and then obviously we’ll look at stool too. Now the stool test you don’t measure like the stool tests we’re running. You’re not measuring mitochondrial function, but I look at it in a roundabout way. Meaning if you have all these gut infections producing toxins that could be damaging mitochondria as well, so we know that when we clear the gut out, we see the mitochondrial function improve.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yep 110%. I want to just put something on screens. People can see it here I guess is really helpful.

Evan Brand: Have you seen or heard about that my to swab before? Have you seen anybody send you those?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have, I’ve ran up. Fulham, it’s kind of a binary test. It gives you a result my the issue I have it’s not a lot of actionable information. It’s like OK, you know there’s some issues there, but then now what’s, what’s the remedy that you’re going to plug in from a diet lifestyle supplement? Toxin reduction execution right? What’s the next step on it? So that’s the problem with some. Of those tests, I always. Look and I always ask well what’s the corrective action based on the test showing uses a concern.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense.

Evan Brand: That’s the problem with a lot of them like I’ve seen a lot of these stool testing companies. Same thing there’s like so much data. Well, this percent of this bacteria and this percent of that. It’s like, what do I do with that? Is that an infection? Is that not an infection? So you and I’ve seen the same problem in other categories of health tests do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I want to show a couple things on screen here? Just so it’s crystal. Where the mitochondria is and how all these different energy pathways plug in, I think it’s important I’m going to pull it up here on screen in just a second so people can see it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, people listening on audio, they’re going to be lost. So just look up Doctor Justin YouTube page and you’ll be able to view some of this stuff. Some stuff, like mitochondria, gets a bit geeky. The the main thing here is toxins are a big factor in damaging this cycle and you gotta get toxins out. Reduce exposure where you can and we can run actually chemical test on your current too so we could talk about that in a minute.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, and so if you look here right. Do you have the mitochondria right here. Some middle part, the mitochondri. The outer part is the cytosol.  So, from what I understand, like creatine is going to plug more into the cytosol and glycolysis, OK, but then you’re going to see you get about two ATP which is adenosine triphosphate. And this gets broken down into ADP and you get energy right? And so, you have glycolysis which generates a little bit of ATP 2. And creatine to plug more on the outside then that goes into your mitochondria. Now you have the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain electron transport chains part of also the beta fatty acid oxidation. That’s how you burn fat for fuel. OK, so Krebs cycle that churns around twice, and essentially what you’re doing is you’re gathering NAD and FADH2. NAD&FADH are grabbing hydrogen so and a design to grab a hydrogen making NAD. HFADH is going to grab a hydrogen, making FADH2, so I think you’re going to grab it’s like two or three. NADH is, and then one FADH2. And all those hydrogens then go into the electron transport chain here and this is where you generate most of your ATP. And again, what comes out, oxygen comes and this is why, if you’re like anemic right? And you’re not carrying oxygen. Well, that’s why you’re going to get tired and this is going to have an effect on your thyroid and your adrenals because the mitochondria is important for energy at all levels. And so if we have anemic issues or were inflamed because inflammation is going to make it harder to carry oxygen all. And also nutrition, because this electron transport chain, when we run the organic acid test, we can look at citrate, malate, fumarate, succinate. These are important metabolic essentially inputs into the Krebs cycle that correlate with certain nutrients like amino acids, alpha-lipoic acid, magnesium B vitamins, and so we can get a window on how this. Krebs Cycle was functioning based on the organic acid testing at some of those compounds and then all sister connotate citrate, right? These are really important, and then electron transport chain we can get a window into things like carnitine and Co Q10 ’cause they also play a major role in the electron transport chain. So we get a good window with how the mitochondrial function functioning by looking at the B vitamins and looking at a lot of these nutrients and so essentially things that can impair this. As you mentioned, pesticides. Heavy metals, mold toxins, antibiotics, and all these things have a negative impact. But that’s kind of how things look, so we have. Glycolysis is the first part that then goes into the mitochondria, and then we have Krebs cycle and electron transport chains. These are the big three. If you can kind of zoom out and see how it looks and how it makes sense. That should hopefully make more sense, so on that front. Any question that, Evan?

Evan Brand:  Well people listening to that. They’re going to be like wow, this sounds like a really crazy rare problem, right? This must be just rare. This must be like a one in million case and I would say. Not going to say 99. I would say 90% of the people we work with. I see some level of mitochondrial dysfunction or damage either on the chemical profile test, so that’s something I alluded to earlier. We can run chemicals so we can look at gasoline. We can look at xylene. We can look at phthalates, all sorts of organophosphates. 24D is a major herbicide. I still see people at Lowe’s and Home Depot in the Garden Isle buying grass seed. That’s called weed and feed, weed and feed is a grass seed mixed with three different types of herbicides. It’s 24D, I believe it’s dicamba and glyphosate. Wait, I could have mixed one of those up, but either way, it’s three different chemicals, very toxic substances mixed with grass seed, and that’s like people just buy it and they don’t think anything of the term weed and feed. That means you’re going to be killing all the good stuff in your soil and poisoning yourself at the same time. It’s just not smart. So this mitochondrial thing. My point was, this is not rare, like when you show that image and people see that like. Oh no, that’s not happening to me. It’s like it happens every day, all day. I had mitochondrial damage, my latest test shows our mitochondria are much, much better, but I had significant mitochondrial damage from my mold exposure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting, I want to highlight one thing here so you can see creatine does primarily exist here in the cytosol, right? So if we zoom out, right cytosol is outside of the mitochondria, right? Right glucose, pyruvate here, so just so you guys can highlight here, creatine does go from the cytosol and it can go into the mitochondria. So, we did talk about creatine. It does primarily happen more in the cytosol outside the mitochondria, and it can go in via this. Mi-CRT kind of transport. Compound, so yeah, so creatine is a compound that we talked about that goes outside but can also go inside the mitochondria. To yeah Doctor Neil Nathan.

Evan Brand: That’s awesome! Doctor Neil Nathan did a huge thing for 155-page slide show that people can look up just called the Cell Danger Response. It’s very complex stuff. There’s going to be maybe a few geeky on that. People want to dive into that, but for your average person there’s not much takeaways built into that. But if you want to look into more of like the biochemistry side of it, then then you could look at it. But I think the big summary is it’s all. It’s all the Chemicals, and this is a relatively new problem I mean we face now over 80,000 chemicals are in the environment. Depending on what number you read, there’s only a small amount of those that are even tested. You’ll see stuff in Europe like oh Europe has banned these chemicals and makeup and personal care products, but the US was very far behind. And if you look at the environmental working group, they have a water testing report. You can look at and you can plug in your zip code. I mean just the amount of trihalomethanes’s pesticide herbicide residue pharmaceutical drugs that are in the municipal tap supply in your city are massive and you’re getting hit with this all the time. If you go to a restaurant and you eat rice, what do you think they make that rice with? They make it with tap water so you’re getting exposed to it that way too, which is why if I go out to eat, I don’t really do rice that often anyway. But if I do it, It’s going to be at home with good, clean filtered water.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. Anything else you want to say on that, so obviously get the toxin exposure. Super important hydration obviously really important to anything else you want to say on that?

Evan Brand: Yeah, you hit you hit the the Co Q10. You mentioned some of the markers we’re going to look at on the oak test, so we will use those. We have a formula. I believe you’ve got 1/2 mines called my to boost. It’s essentially like a multi for the mitochondria with all the Co Q10, ribose, carnitine B vitamins. So, when we see mitochondrial dysfunction, we can supplement that and we tell people this is a band-aid for your mitochondria. This is not some of it is the root cause, right? If you just are simply low and depleted in Co Q10, one could argue supplementing Co Q 10 is the root cause, but in reality it was usually. Oh here we go. Let me see if I can share this slide with you. Mainly it was the the toxins that led to this so let. Me share my screen really quick.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there is going to be because we do make Co Q10 on our own via the mevalonic acid pathway. And of course, as you get older, just like stomach acid, you’re gonna make less of it and so there there could just be a depletion based on age as well.

Evan Brand: Does that show up at all on your side? The video is that screen share show.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Try again.

There’s like a little bell there. Let me let me pop it up again. How about that, yes? Oh yeah, let me let.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Me highlight it, go ahead.

Evan Brand: Yeah, there we go. So, this is this is kind of what I was alluding to, and many many other people may have different ways to look at this, but this is from Neil Nathan. He had a great paper on this cell danger response and it just shows at the top here. Basically, everything I already mentioned like a flame. Heavy metals, pesticides, infection, so that would include viral issues as well. Mass cells, NK killer cells, cytokines, the microbiome. All these issues here are what really breaks this role. You know, the one of these is the final straw that breaks the camel’s back and then you end up in this what’s called the cell danger response phase. And then that’s where you get the issues with the mitochondria down regular. So there’s more in that. Like I said, it’s 155 pages. It’s like you got to be, you got to be, you know, have your bulletproof coffee before you look through that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No, that makes a lot of sense, so your kind of really focusing on the toxicity and how that negatively impacts it. I want to just kind of tie in the dietary component. Why is food so important to enhancing the mitochondria? Let me let me break that down for a second here. This is important. OK, so this is really important. We talked about like Kreb cycle right? And so like this is our zoom out right? What’s happening here? We have glycolysis, Krebs cycle, electron transport chain outside of the mitochondria with the cytosol inside. Now check this out. This is a good one. This is from textbook of functional medicine, so. We have fats, carbs and proteins. These are our primary nutrients where everything comes from right. Fast could be coconut oil, grass fed butter could be fats from. Uhm, grass fed meat right? Our carbs can be vegetables, fruit, starch and our proteins could be protein powder or it could be animal protein, right? All of these essentially shuttled downstream. Fats get carried into the mitochondria via carnitine, so if you go into any biochemistry textbook, it’s called the carnitine. Shuttle right. Every medical doctor, doctorate level person would studied this at a graduate level. I studied as well now in the textbook of I think that guidance Physiology, but there’s another textbook of biochemistry that’s common at the graduate level. You know what the rate limiting amino acids to make carnitine are. It’s methionine and lysine and so really important.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Guess what some of the rate limiting amino acids are in a vegetarian diet.

Evan Brand:  Oh yeah, well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Medallion Leisinger actually very deficient in vegetarian diets, and so this whole process of a carnitine shuttle here that helps bring carnitine converts it into acetyl Co A. So then the actual it can get inside the mitochondria. And run through the citric acid cycle again. That’s the same thing as Krebs Cycle. They have multiple names. In medicine for the same thing, it’s just meant to confuse people. So citric acid cycle or the Krebs cycle.  This is how we get fat inside the mitochondria is via carnitine. So very important, right so if we zoom out. Here, we have energy out here, fat. We get it inside via the carnitine shuttle. Super important there and then you see carbs. Right glucose, other sugars. We go pyruvate to lactate and we need guess what B vitamin? So if we’re putting in lots and lots of refined processed sugar and we’re insulin resistant, we can actually deplete B vitamins. And we can actually deplete a lot of magnesium and other nutrients downstream. So, this is really important. Too much carbs, too much sugar, especially if you’re insulin resistance and you’re putting on weight due to too much carbs. That’s going to be a problem, and you’re going to deplete nutrients now. Then we have proteins, amino acids. These all get converted downstream. We also need B itamin to support that now the difference is if you’re eating high quality protein. Guess what? You’re getting good quality B vitamins in that. Protein if you’re doing a lot of refined processed sugar, guess what? You’re not getting vitamins and nutrients with it. So carbohydrates, it’s possible to eat a lot of empty carbs that are actually going to deplete your nutrient levels. Protein not as much if it’s grass fed and organic right now, really, you’re taking all these nutrients, fats, carbs and proteins. You’re converting them into acetyl Co A. OK, you’re converting it to acetyl Co A and again we spit off beta-hydroxybutyrate what’s that? That’s a ketone now this is important. If we keep our carbs in check we can use ketones for fuel, so this is a really important fuel source or people that are going to be lower carb because we’re going to be more keto adapted. We’re going to be able to use that and then you can see here that acetyl Co A. Runs around the Krebs cycle. Twice we go 2 turns. Guess what, we need cysteine amino acid iron really important. So if you’re a female you have heavy bleeding your estrogen dominant you heavy bleeding that’s in effect energy magnesium manganese B vitamins lipoic acid magnesium B vitamins B vitamins tyrosine phenylalanine aspartate, glycine, histidine, arginine, proline. Glycine, valine methionine, right? These are all amino acids over here. So, we need amino acids to run these systems. We need B vitamins. We need magnesium and then of course, once we pump these things around, here’s our NADH and then our FADH should be there somewhere as well. So here NADH, it may not. They may just be oversimplifying it not showing it. But we have NADH here. We should have an FADH2 coming in. This all goes right into. Guess what? This is the electron transport chain and base. Yeah, fatty acid oxidation right there, right? This is now now hydroxymethyl Glutarate. This is Co Q10. This is where Co Q10 comes in and this is where it runs through the electron transport chain and burning fat for fuel and we generate our 36 to 38 ATP from all these three sources 1-2 and three and so that’s what’s happening in your mitochondria. So just to kind of highlight macro nutrients, fats, protein, carbs, very important two, don’t junk it up with all the toxins that you mentioned. And then of course, making sure we. Can breakdown protein. Make sure we’re getting enough iron making. Sure, we’re not. Anemic right? All of those things kind of flow into allowing all these pathways to to work optimally.

Evan Brand: That’s amazing, I love the breakdown to that. The visual super helpful. So just to clarify a little bit. So for women out there, you’re saying that if having heavy ministration, they have low iron. It’s not just the the low iron that we assume is creating like a low oxygenation, you’re you’re showing here. The low iron is literally creating a mitochondrial deficit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. You’re not getting the oxygen in right? If we go back to here, right? Mitochondria, what do we need to get into the mitochondria? Oxygen, what’s one of the big carrying capacities for oxygen in the body? Hemoglobin and then iron affects hemoglobin in red blood cells, right? Hemoglobin is part of the red blood cell carrying capacity and we need the iron to really keep the hemoglobin levels up so we can carry enough oxygen.

Evan Brand: Wow, so there’s why you’re tired.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Could be. Yet, one and then of course all of the other nutrients play a role. Not enough of the amino acids. The only issue with this graph, any biochemists that are looking on? I think the only thing that’s missing is really the FADH2, so it should. So, all these things, they’re just reducing compounds. Really, the whole goal of this Kreb cycle to run is just grabbing hydrogens. And then once we grab these hydrogens, Uhm, these things get cleaved off, and then it generates ATP. What’s happening there? And all these things like hydroxymethyl iterate. These are right. These are all driven through Co, Q10, right? We need Co Q10 to make that happen.

Evan Brand: Now for people like supplementing ketones, if you go back up to the top there, you can basically kind of inject your own spark plug into the cycle, I guess right? If you’re taking exogenous ketones, what is that doing in relationship to this whole cycle?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s giving you more beta hydroxybutyrate. The problem is your body is going to primarily want to use that when insulin levels are lower, so you have to keep your insulin levels and check. If not, you’re not setting your Physiology up to want to burn that. If you’re probably, gonna pee it out more like more than likely versus burn it. Cause typically, your body has an enzyme called hormone sensitive light pace where it wants to break down fat and convert more of these ketones. Hormone-sensitive light base is inverse with insulin. So hire your hormone-sensitive light pace is you need lower insulin to make that happen.

Evan Brand: So the lady who eats the donut and then goes to the store and buys her exogenous ketones, she’s wasting her.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probably not as good. There may be some mild benefits that you get cognitively just ’cause your brain has some additional fuel to run on. If people brains are insulin resistant, they may have a lot of sugar from that doughnut, but the cells in their brain maybe so numb. To it that they may not be able to access it so some ketones could be helpful, but in the end, you want to fix the insulin resistance if you’re going to do it. Try doing both. Don’t just do the ketones. Try to do both that you can.

Evan Brand: And you can make your own ketones too. For free.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah, that’s how you’re doing that you keep in your insulin in check. And you’re going to start. Making your own. 100%.

Evan Brand: Yeah, cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool, that was awesome. Very cool guys. I hope you guys enjoyed today’s podcast. We’re trying to be a little bit more visual; you know. Go into some hard hard science Y stuff, but you know just kind of zoom out. Like what’s the take home right? The take home is don’t put junkie toxins and that screw up your mitochondria right? Antibiotics, I mean antibiotics? You know if if you have an acute infection that’s not resolving, you know you gotta do what you gotta do, right? You have an acute pneumonia. You gotta do what you gotta do. Talk to your doctor about it. Just don’t go to antibiotics all the time as your first line defense. Try to do some. More natural things to fix it #2 you know, try to be aware of mold in your environment. Make sure you’re not. Getting exposed to pesticides. Chemicals heavy metals. Make sure you’re doing your best to hydrate right. We need water to make this whole thing work too. I would say after that make sure you have your macronutrient style, then good quality protein fats and carbohydrates. Organic sources dial in your carbs so you’re not insulin resistant and make sure your inflammation is good. Inflammation helps with oxygenation and blood flow. Then after that we can look at using supplemental nutrients in my line and Evans line we have mito supports products mine is mito synergy. Evans is my toe. Boots will put links down below. Those products have a lot of these nutrients. It’s going to have the ribose to creatine the carnitine, the B vitamin. Since it’s going to have the Co Q10, it’s going to have actually Kreb cycle intermediary compounds like fumarate malate, succinate. All those different nutrients or run those pathways better. Of course, that all sits on top of a solid diet. Don’t take supplements if you’re going to eat crap, eat really great and then say OK now I’m going to work on enhancing it. And again, we can run testing on organic. Message to look at some of these intermediary nutrients, like citrate to connotate succinate bloomer, a mallet we can actually test them, which is pretty cool.

Evan Brand: Yeah, the testing is the best part because you you know if you actually need it. I can tell you the average person has mitochondrial problem, so in general, could you just take this? I kind of call it a multi for the mitochondria. Could you just take that test? You know like a guess and check you could, but we like to see the data and obviously my biggest thing is looking for mold colonization. Candida overgrowth clostridia. Some of these gut infections and how that affects your brain chemistry too. So when you do the oh, you really are getting the best bang for your buck in terms of testing. Like if you could only do one test out there, I think the oh it would. Probably be the number one most.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Important 110%. Anything else you want to say?

Evan Brand: If people need help, they can reach out to you worldwide or me worldwide. Doctor J at justinhealthcom me Evan at evanbrand.com and we would love to chat with you about your symptoms, your goals and we’ll tell you for your good fit for care, so please feel free to reach out. Look forward to helping you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Foot and get adjusted. Help calm here and then you guys have any questions, comments or concerns. Put him down below. Let us know. Kind of what you’re doing. What’s working that really helps us out as well. Very cool. Alright guys, well you guys have a phenomenal day here and we’ll. Be in touch. Take care of y’all.

Evan Brand: Sounds good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright Bye bye.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-gut-lung-connection-your-gut-health-can-affect-your-breathing-podcast-348

Recommended products:

Mito Synergy

Mito Boost

Deluxe Mold Test Kit

GPL Mycotox

Genova Organix Comprehensive Profile

Genova NutrEval FMV

 

The Top 5 Nutrients to Address Gut Inflammation and Leaky Gut | Podcast #339

Whenever you are worried about your gut health and having inflammation, Dr. J and Evan are here to share five essentials that may help you.

Lessen your intake of highly processed foods, refined carbs, sugar, artificial sweeteners, and alcohol. Opt instead for anti-inflammatory foods like fruits, vegetables, spices, and healthy fats but, if you suspect that several foods are triggering inflammation in your gut, it might be worth giving an elimination diet a try.

It may require removing foods from your diet that you suspect are connected to your gut problems for roughly two to three weeks at a time. Inflammation in your gut may cause a host of harmful health symptoms, from fatigue to irregular periods and chronic constipation. However, a few changes to your diet and lifestyle might be vital to helping you control these symptoms and improve your gut health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this podcast, we cover:

0:48   Looking into the Gut Deeper

3:53   Good Foundations

6:26   Chewing is Important

8:22   Mushrooms as Anti-Inflammatory Properties

16:00  Probiotics

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Today’s podcast is we’re going to be talking about the top five nutrients to address gut inflammation, and leaky gut or gut permeability. So this is a topic that’s pertinent to a lot of our patients as gut inflammation, there’s usually some component in why they’re not feeling good. So I’m really excited to address this today with Evan, we’re gonna dive into the things that we do clinically, the things that work with our patients, the things that actually get results, we’ll break it down, and we’ll kind of give you guys some action items for today as well. And what’s cooking man? How are we doing?

Evan Brand: Hey, you’re doing really well. And you know, we always come up with a title. And then we over deliver on that title. So we’re calling this something along the lines of top five nutrients to help your gut or to heal your gut or support intestinal permeability, but maybe we end up going over five. So I’m just gonna go straight to my favorite because it’s so easy. It’s so broad spectrum in its use. And it’s so safe for people across the board to use it, whether it’s kids, adults, the elderly population, even people that don’t have testing, you know, our philosophy is test don’t guess we want to have the data, we want to have good stool testing, and good organic acids testing to look into the gut deeper and figure out what’s going on under the hood. But there is usually a three, sometimes four week timeline between talking with a client or a new patient and then getting the test results. So what do we do to help these people in that in between time before we can do the real work based on the data, I’d say my favorite is probably aloe, and specifically you and I use an aloe extract. It’s a 200 to one, so it’s 200 pounds of gel converted to one pound of extract, and then that’s encapsulated. We had a young boy, not super young, maybe 16 17. But he was diagnosed with autoimmune gut issues, Crohn’s all sort of colitis, actually pan colitis where the whole digestive tract was affected major bleeding in the store. We got him on simply a 200 to one extract of aloe. And within three weeks, we did a new gi map stool test, and we dropped his calprotectin levels, which is his gut inflammation by 1000 points, just by aloe alone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable. Yeah, it’s powerful what nutrients can do now I always tell patients, if you’re trying to come in and make some changes out of the gates, I mean, your best bang for your buck would be fixing the food, because the food is constantly getting your body getting your gut in flames. So the first thing we can do is look at the the the inflammatory food that could be coming in this could be gluten or other technically gluten free grains like corn, oat, rice, those kinds of things. So you want to really get the grains out, you want to really get a lot of the poly polyunsaturated omega six vegetable oils. And again, the reason why vegetable oils tend to be more, let’s say poor is because they’re highly processed to extract the fat. And the processing actually damages the fat and creates free radical stress within those fats. Because the more you take in damaged fats, your body has to utilize antioxidants to stabilize the fats. So they don’t create free radicals. And so it depletes a lot of your antioxidants. And then those fast take on and become part of your cell membrane. And to have healthy cells you have to have good membrane. Because the membrane essentially is the brain of your cell. It provides a lot of good cellular communication happens with the membrane. So if you have junky fats, whether it’s omega six junky fats, or trans fats like hydrogenated soybean oil, right, those kinds of things, canola, you know, safflower, those are going to be more junky omega six, and they’re going to really not make the healthiest cell membranes, they’re going to deplete your antioxidant reserves. And if they’re on the trans fat side, they’ll make your cell membranes very inflexible too.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. And I apologize for skipping over the diet piece, you know, you think of the typical American person, they think, just give me the pill. Give me the magic remedy. So we’ll talk about some of those remedies. But yeah, you make a great point, you can’t go out to Pizza Hut for dinner, and then just take an aloe capsule, and everything’s going to be okay. Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So that’s it’s good to look at the foundation out of the gates. I’d also say like, I’ll just kind of put this next category into a broad category and just say, amino acids. And these amino acids could be things like an acetylglucosamine, NaG that could be things like glycine, which are going to be very high in collagen or bone broth. And they could also be things like glutamine, so I kind of put these in the amino acid bucket, when they tend to be very good support for the entire sites of the gut lining, that can be used as fuel for the gut lining, they also can help with gut permeability. And, and glycine is a really good backbone for connective tissue. So it can be very helpful for that lot of that connective tissue healing out of the gates.

Evan Brand: So how about enzymes? When you hear nutrients to heal the gut or support the gut, you don’t necessarily think about enzymes, you think of more like you mentioned, the glutamine, Aloe, the kind of calming, soothing things, but I would argue enzymes have a role in helping with reducing gut inflammation simply by improving digestion and reducing the putrifying and fermenting of foods because I know my gut was Super inflamed. If I look back at some of my original stool tests, when I had gut infections, yes, I was doing things to soothe my gut, but simply just treated, the infections alone got the inflammation down. And part of that process of treating the infections was using enzymes, because my digestion was so terrible, I would get exhausted after a meal. And that was a sign that I had low stomach acid. So I would say the enzyme should be on our list here, because so many people do to age due to stress. Maybe you’re eating in a loud restaurant, like you’re on your lunch break for work, and you’re listening to us or there’s music, boom, boom, boom in the background, and you’re sympathetically stressed while you’re eating enzymes, to me would be a good insurance policy to help break down your foods and then therefore reduce inflammation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, foods are not broken down properly, they’re going to sit, they’re going to ferment, they’re going to purify, they’re going to read certify also, those foods are more likely to create hydrogen and methane gases because they’re fermenting, and those gases can throw off your motility, motility and how you move the bowels. And if the bowels are one too short, or should take too fast on the diarrhea side, you may not absorb those nutrients well. And if they’re too long, on the conservation side, you may reabsorb fecal toxins. And so you know, long or short on the bowel motility can definitely affect absorption or create more toxins in the body. So I think that’s a big one. And then just kind of connecting the enzymes and we could throw HCl in there too, because HCl helps activate enzymes, I would say chewing, chewing and and really just the mastication and healthy eating habits because chewing your food up really fine, allows more surface area for those enzymes and acids to work. So you can have a good amount of enzymes or acids, you only have a couple of chews. you swallow your food, those enzymes and acids aren’t gonna work as good as you really chew it up, you know, 30 to choose one chew per tooth, you know, ideally like an oatmeal like consistencies and allow those enzymes and acids to work better.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m 18th down. So I guess I get off the hook with 32. You know, I have my wisdom teeth and my 12 year molders out so.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, there you go. I mean, I have my wisdom teeth out as well. So I’m kind of at 28 as well. So I get it. So let’s just say 30 plus or minus a couple.

Evan Brand: It’s hard. I’ve tried to do that I’ve tried to do that many choose, oh man, my jaw gets tired. So and that’s the that’s the problem too, that we have with our food is like you go to Chipotle, a for example. Everything’s really soft. Like if you get rice if you get like carnitas. Or if you get the chicken, you barely have to chew it. It’s almost like mush. So I try to personally seek out occasionally I will seek out whether it’s like beef jerky, or no bison jerky or even just a steak, you know, I try to really get something that works my job because I just feel like in America, our food is so soft and easily digestible, that we don’t have to really chew anymore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so if you have a nice steak or a nice whole chicken, just make sure you chew it up. Same thing goes with over hydrating, you know, try to get your first thing I do is and I get to go eat a meal, I kind of go to the reverse osmosis filter, get a nice big glass of water to add some minerals, one, two, and then I get my meal going that way it gives me 10 15 minutes or so for everything to absorb. And of course the colder the water you got to take a little bit longer because your body holds that water in your stomach, heats it up to about room temperature and then passes it through. So the colder that water is, the longer you should wait in between the meal

About mushrooms. This is something that you know, just doing a little bit of research before we hit record, that this is something that I don’t necessarily go to right out of the gate but I’ve been using mushrooms for a long time. I know you and I personally have been taking mushrooms for a long time. And it turns out that for example, Lion’s Mane mushroom has some really, I would say probably just as impressive as some of the other herbs you’re mentioning, whether it’s like dgl, licorice or marshmallow kind of the conventional gut healing ones. Lion’s Mane has some really awesome anti inflammatory properties. There were two papers that we had found here on Lion’s Mane mushroom being shown to protect from and shrink gastric ulcers. Also, Lion’s Mane was shown to significantly improve symptoms of two major inflammatory disorders of the digestive system. And so that’s cool, because normally we’re using Lion’s Mane for cognitive problems. I know for me, my brain is much more clear. I’ve got Lion’s Mane mushroom in my system right now. I took two capsules this morning, and I certainly feel it mentally. But I did not even think that I was feeling it in my gut. So that’s cool.

Totally. Yeah, that gets really important. Again, a lot of gut issues, the immune system can be a big player at it. And so of course, if you’re able to modulate the immune system with the medicinal mushrooms, or immunogenic compounds that are going to be in those mushrooms, whether it’s beta one, three, D glucan, whatever that is, it could have an effect on gut permeability and improving digestion. I think all that’s very, very important. Also, just kind of one pet peeve of mine. Someone in the comments was chatting about this. A lot of people when they talk about leaky gut, they talk about leaky gut like like it’s the cause of Problem. leaky gut is the effects of on what’s happening with the gut. So the more inflamed you are, the more you’re not breaking down your food. The more crappy The food is, the more inflammatory The food is, the more dysbiosis we have, the the lack of certain nutrients we have, the more stress we are right. All that then creates and increases the chance of gut permeability. Gut permeability isn’t the cause unto itself. It’s the effects of a lot of other issues happening. So when people talk about Oh, you gotta fix the leaky gut. It’s like, not necessarily, you know, it’s like, it’s like saying, Oh, we have to fix. Imagine you have a leak in your roof and the waters pulling on the carpet below you. So we got to fix that water on the floor. It’s like, No, no, you fix the hole in the roof. And again, it may be semantics, but we got to call a spade a spade. If the water’s coming into the roof, you talk to them, we got to fix the hole in the roof. You don’t say we fixed the the water on the ground, right? So I just want everyone I want to train everyone to kind of get thinking about things from a root cause standpoint, versus labeling the damage at the end result conventional medicines really good at labeling damage down here and not talking about the effects of top that should the cause up top there labeling the effects down here. So we want to go root cause?

Yeah, that’s great. And I’m sure we could come up with other analogies on it. But that makes a lot of sense. It’s kind of like, okay, we need to come in with the towel. Oh, no. Now we have this super absorbent towel, this towel is going to absorb 1000 times more water on your floor than any other towel. And then yes, this, this carpet is mold resistant. So if you use this carpet, that water in your carpet won’t create mold, but you’re still missing the frickin hole in the roof roof.

Exactly, exactly. So we just got to really be on top of that. Make sure everyone’s thinking root cause I think that’s really helpful.

Well, let’s call it out. Let’s call out why that happens, though. It’s simply money. And it’s the supplement industry. There’s a lot of money. Yeah, it’s marketing. There’s a lot of money made on leaky gut this and this leaky gut book and this leaky gut protocol and this leaky gut practitioner. The problem is you could take all these leaky gut support for a decade and never treat the infections like if you just went and did like you mentioned glutamine, and we hit the zinc carnosine and the dgl. And we did the aloe, like we talked about in the beginning, none of those are going to erase a blastocyst is hominis, parasite infection, none of those are going to get rid of Giardia. None of those are going to treat the H pylori, they may help. But they’re definitely not going to eradicate the issue causing the leaky gut in the first place. So that’s just marketing. It’s money involved in this. And, you know, as practitioners, I think it’s really smart of you to call it out like that, because it’s, it is frustrating for us because we’ll look on a new client or new patients intake form. And they’ll be taking all these quote leaky gut supplements. Yeah, I found this leaky gut protocol online, and I still have all these digestive problems. And it’s like, well, yeah, look at your stool test, you have all these issues. And you could do that for 20 years and never fix it. So I could rant on that all day.

Yeah, other thing I would just say out of the gates is it’s okay to palliative Li support the leaky gut, we just have to make sure when you’re palliative Li supporting something we’re also root cause supporting it as well root cause fixing it. Palliative support, totally fine, right. Nothing wrong with that we just got to call a spade a spade and and not pretend the palliative leaky gut support is root cause support. Yeah, long as we can do that, then I think we’re pretty good. Next thing I would highlight out of the gates and you see this herb being listed as being very helpful for the gut permeability, but it’s also very helpful on the adrenal. So that’s licorice. And so when we use licorice is a lot of licorice being used in leaky gut supports. That’s that’s d glycerides. And this is the glycerides component of the licorice is pulled out. And the glycerides component of a licorice is is the component that slows the breakdown of cortisol, I think it’s the 11 beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase to enzyme. The licorice inhibits that enzyme. That’s the enzyme that helps break down cortisol. So we know cortisol too low, we need healthy levels of cortisol to actually build up the gut lining. It helps with building up the gut lining. Of course, if our cortisol levels are too high, and we’re chronically stressed, right, that can also break down the gut lining. We know that with people that are chronically stressed getting ulcers, right, we know that as well. And so when we look at licorice, it really helps with cortisol improvement. So if we do a cortisol test, and we see chronically low cortisol, that can actually help with the gut lining with the mucosa with the stomach with the duodenum. And that can actually help with the cortisol bringing that back up. And that can help build back up that gut lining. And so we like licorice, that’s non diglycerides for the gut and Nanda glycerides licorice, we give it typically orally sublingually, to our patients, that will eventually trickle downstream to the gut as well. And so licorice can be a powerful thing. You just have to be careful if you’re giving a non diglycerides version that people that have already higher level of cortisol, that may make things worse. So we just got to make sure we’re testing that to know what kind of pattern we’re seeing.

Yeah, that’s a good point. So we could do a whole part two on that. If you want. Give us some feedback. Like maybe the gut hormone connection. And we could hit that in detail. But yeah, you highlighted a very important point, which is that cortisol is involved with this whole process. And it really is a Goldilocks zone. If you have too little cortisol, you’re exhausted. And you’re probably going to be dependent on stimulants and caffeine and sugar and things that are going to damage your gut. But then simply, you don’t have enough to build up the gut. And then if you have too much, now you’re catabolic, you’re breaking down your muscle tissue, and you’re breaking down your gut barrier. That’s probably part of the reason that I lost a lot of weight and a lot of muscle. When I first moved to Texas, I had gut infections, and I was incredibly stressed, just moving and leaving my family behind, you know, emotional stuff, homesickness gut infections, I had the perfect storm to tear up my gut. So I can tell you firsthand that adrenal supports did help. And that was probably because it was helping regulate the cortisol levels, which then in turn, took the load off my gut, so to speak.

100% Yeah, I like that. And so it’s good to really make sure that’s under control. 

Evan Brand: How about probiotics? I think it’s worth mentioning. These are totally valuable tools that can help regulate histamine. Yeah, and regulate bacteria with it. So let’s dive into that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you have to you I said you have three to four big families. Okay. So you typically have your lactobacillus and bifidobacterium, which are typically come together and usually a good high quality broad spectrum probiotic. So my line we have one called profile, Florida doesn’t have a lot of the different lactobacillus whether it’s kci acidophilus Bulgaria’s brevis, rhamnosus. And then of course, you have a lot of the bifidobacterium whether it’s bifidobacterium, bifidum, longum, brevis, right. So those are your broad spectrum lactobacillus or bifidobacterium. Probiotics, lots of good data, lots of good research anywhere from food poisoning for inflammation reduction, gut permeability reduction. nutrient absorption is all kinds of different studies connecting the dots on those so that’s kind of the bifidobacteria, lactobacillus Of course, we have more of our spore based or soil based probiotics. These are going to be a lot of your bacillus strains, right, whether it’s bacillus, subtlest class ei coagulans, like Informix, right. These are the bacillus strains. These are really good if you are very much cebo sensitive, fodmap sensitive, we may use some of these over a bifido lactobacillus species. And then of course, I’m a big fan of the probiotic that’s kind of more of a beneficial yeast called Saccharomyces boulardii in my lammie, one called sacral flora, again, we’ll put the links below for for all y’all so if you want to see it, we’ll put the links below sacral Flora Saccharomyces boulardii is very helpful a lot of studies on it, helping to improve immunity in the gut IGA IGA levels going to get low and just gut inflammation or gut stress. Of course, it’s going to help with food poisoning a lot of studies on it helping with H. pylori, C. diff, Clostridium difficile, blastocystis hominess. It also helps crowd out yeast and Candida so there’s a lot of excellent benefits with saccharomyces we love it and it’s usually going to be a core part of my probiotic, my fifth r which is repopulation re inoculation on the good healthy probiotics, once the fourth hour is done right fourth hours and to be removing the gut bugs removing the gut infections. Fifth hour, we come in repopulate re inoculate with good bacteria. Most people kind of sweet they want to start probiotics sooner, and that may not be the best step. Not saying it may not help. But some people have just found one that’s just a lot of pills. And two, if they have a lot of bad bugs in there. It’s like going and getting a whole bunch of good fresh grass seeds throw down on a lawn full of weeds, right? You got to get the weeds done before we throw down the seeds right got to get the car washed or we get waxed.

Evan Brand: Kind of like that. Yeah, we had a lot of good feedback on the podcast we did remember we were talking about probiotics and how a lot of new research is showing probiotics are being used to help with getting out mycotoxins and we know that mold toxins damage the gut. So yes, so I have been I’ve honestly been working in probiotics into the protocol sooner and most people do well. There are some like you said that just don’t you got to pull the weeds before you throw the seeds. But there are a lot of people doing really good with throwing probiotics and sooner in the protocols now. So like you said, if they can handle the amount of pills, maybe we try to sneak one or two in or we could do like powdered versions, typically, it’s like a quarter teaspoon, we could throw in a blend like that sack be you could you could do powder and maybe throw it in a smoothie or something. So we are trying to integrate those a lot. And I’ve had amazing success personally with probiotics. So I think it’s interesting, there’s still a lot of people that poopoo probiotic probiotics I know you and I we kind of get, you know, so caught up in the clinical trenches that we may miss some things, but I do get a couple of emails, you know, here and there from from people, clients sending them like, hey, this guy like says probiotics are a waste of money, and you know, that they don’t work. And I would just say that’s not true. We have so much clinical data personally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about context, right? It’s like if someone comes in, they have chronic gut issues, and they’re just taking a probiotic thinking that that’s going to be the answer to their gut problems. It’s probably not right, and that’s where we’re trying to have a comprehensive functional medicine plan. That’s root cause and not just trying to Pro supplements at the wall thinking that that’s going to fix it. So yeah, I understand if that you know where that person is coming up with that, that bias that biases from not having a comprehensive root cause plan with a functional medicine practitioner, they’re just trying to throw stuff at them instead it hoping it will fix the symptoms, not fix the root cause.

Well, here’s Yeah, good, good point. Here’s the other thing, too, it’s even some probiotic companies will say that about other companies, it’s more of a marketing thing like, hey, their probiotic is crap, or it doesn’t work because of X, Y, or Z. But I will just say with what you and I use, clinically, we’re using professional supplement manufacturers exclusive only to health care providers. And a lot of the stuff we use, we have extended release technology. So when arguments like probiotics are going to die in the stomach, they’re not even going to make it to where they need to. But a lot of the new technology we use, they’re not even going to break open, they’re going to be resistant to the stomach acid. So that’s another problem too, when you hear these little like, super sometimes buzzworthy type articles. It’s not taking into consideration the quality, the quantity, the purity, the potency, the technology involved, it’s like probiotics, they get the label, and then that’s it. And that’s just not a fair classification.

Correct. And then also consumer reports that a study on probiotics a couple years back maybe 5 10 years ago. And what they found is most probiotics that they put a number on the outside of the bottle, hey, this is how many colony forming units. And what a lot of the cheap companies do is they say, Okay, this is how many should have been in this probiotic at manufacturing of this product. Let’s say it’s 20 billion. Now, what the professional companies do is, right, when you’re buying high quality, professional ingredients, they’re gonna say this is how many colony forming units should be in this capsule at expiration. And so you’re looking at something like two to three times the amount of those that species that CFU on the bottle colony forming units, is going to be typically in there. So when you see like, in my probiotic, I think it’s 40 billion per two capsules, right? That’s going to be what’s in there two years from now at expiration, right? And so obviously, it’s going to be two to three times the amount of that before. And so you want to use professional companies. So what you see on the label is always worst case, scenario, number one, and then also how products are stored by professional companies is very important. So like, where we have our warehouses, like everything is stored in an air conditioned or a refrigerated environment for a lot of our probiotics, some don’t necessarily need that. But which we value, the the scenario and how that store because that really increases potency, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And the funny thing is, too, we’ve seen some papers on supposedly expiration dates, you know, this is something that you and I are forced to do with the professional companies we work with. But you know, we’ve seen some research on supplements from 2030 years ago, still being viable, meaning they still had some potency and purity to them. And obviously, they still had a biological effect. So to me, I would if I had to pick like a consumer shelf bought probiotic, or a suppose that expired professional product, I’m going to go for the supposedly expired product, I’d go for a five year old professional probiotic, then, you know, on the shelf today consumer level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And also a lot of the probiotics or supplements that require refrigeration on the warehousing side, a lot of times you’re just not going to get that on Amazon, you’re not going to get that level of specificity just because that’s not how their warehouses are set up. And so with ours, we make sure that that refrigeration components is there because we’re working with patients and we need we need that potency, because we’re trying to get clinical outcomes, right. We’re trying to sell and provide a clinical outcome for the patient. And if we’re just providing products that aren’t meeting that standard, we’re not going to win. And of course, we want to be successful on that front.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. Well say Well, I think we covered a lot of it. So the mushrooms are beneficial Lion’s Mane the mushroom is amazing for the brain, but for the gut also Chaga mushroom would be great reishi mushroom could also deserve a good mention, you hit upon the amino acids. So the glutamine or the various types of glucose amines involved. We love amino acids, we use those all the time you mentioned like collagen also being you know, part of that makeup, we hit on some of the herbs like the the licorice, or the dgl version of it, the marshmallow, we like to use a lot, we hit upon the aloe, and then we hit the probiotics, I think those are the big categories. And then the enzymes we hit that too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we did a really good job hitting a couple and I just I really want to plug in concepts, right? Like a lot of people, they just try to throw information at people and and try to memorize that. I think that’s not beneficial. But if you can just understand concepts, right? A concept is just something that sticks. You either get it or you don’t. And so we try to use a lot of analogies and understand we try to plug in a lot of the concepts of root cause versus palliative cause. We try to get you to think about, hey, if this helps, why does it help? is it just an anti inflammatory? is it helping just improve better digestion? is it helping your immune system? is it helping your adrenals and helping you that your body’s natural process to build back up that gut lining? What’s the underlying mechanisms if you understand that, then you see how it plugs into the greater matrix of healing.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, I agree 1,000%. So, I think the big concept of today is Yes, here are some things here are some nutrients you can use. However, we really want to make sure you’re testing, not guessing. So if you do need the aloe to calm the gut for now, you need the enzymes to help improve digestion. For now, you notice that HCl is helping with your heartburn or you notice that the enzymes are reducing your bloating, or your burping or your gas. Great, but what led to all that in the first place? What led you to need the aloe because you had gut inflammation, what led you to need the enzymes, that’s where somebody like us can come in and help you figure that out and plot it on paper. And, you know, we’ve been through the trenches personally. And clinically, we’re always improving upon herself. You know, I work on my children, I know you work on your children, we’re giving our kids things to help their guts, I mean, so this is like a, there’s no finish line, I don’t want people to think, Hey, I just do this aloe for a month, and then I’m done. You know, there’s not a finish line with the gut, we’re constantly being exposed to new toxins and new pathogens. We’ve even seen with the virus that’s been going around a lot of issues with the gut there, we’ve seen a lot of issue with tissue destruction in the intestinal tract. So who knows? Right now with the 5 10 year outlook of the GI health in the US is right now, our guts are notoriously bad, due to glyphosate and other things, damaging them. So just a quick note, you kind of started with the diet all and with the diet 100% organic is important, if you’re going to go buy all these probiotics, but yet, you’re going to eat strawberries with an average of 22 pesticides on them. If they’re not organic, you’re wasting your frickin time and your money because we know all those pesticides are just killing the beneficial bacteria in your gut that you’re trying to re inoculate or repopulate with. So please go organic, you know, before you spend money on probiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then also how long do these probiotic strains last in your gut, I mean, a lot of times, you’re going to see the data show in about one month or so. So that they don’t stay forever. So when you take a probiotic, it’s not like it’s there forever. So it’ll it’ll hang around typically for a month, it’ll help with a nutrient synthesis, it’ll help with nutrient absorption, it’ll help with inflammation, modulating the immune system, there’s some data that maybe the spore based probiotics hang around a little bit longer, and they may help proliferate the growth of other beneficial species. So just think when you take a probiotic, it’s not forever. Now the goal is that we’re getting some level of fermentable foods in your diet, whether it’s from sauerkraut, or low sugar kombucha, or some kind of fermented pickle or something, or, you know, cultured coconut milk or potentially high quality raw milk if you can tolerate it. So you know, that’s typically how we’re getting exposed to probiotics more on a day in weekend kind of situation. If you’re someone that can’t get that level of exposure with fermented oils from food, then you probably want to be on a probiotic a little bit more frequently, if you’re not getting those fermentable. So we just got to plug and play where we’re at. I think our ancestors probably did more fermentable foods, which is ideal. But if we can’t we plug in a good quality probiotic, or at least throw in something every couple of months, just to kind of fill in the gap to make sure we’re getting exposed to those good for mandibles.

Evan Brand: Yeah, great point, I just want to highlight what you said too, which is like your gut bacteria are actually going to help you with your health in other ways. So once gut bacteria optimize your healing the gut, you’re making neurotransmitters the way you should you’re making serotonin, you’re making things to improve yourself, you’re making B vitamins to help your energy and your mitochondria. So this is why I really the gut, I mean, we just we can’t stop talking about it because it literally is the foundation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So just kind of want to make sure that is understood. And that makes sense for everyone. We’ll put a list of recommended products down below. So you guys have access to those you want to support us support the show, we appreciate it put those down below. Also, if you guys want to reach out to Evan brand, head over to EvanBrand.com, Evan is there for you guys worldwide. And again, I’m there for you as well, justinhealth.com, Dr. J myself, there’ll be a little link button, you guys can click and reach out to us we are available worldwide to help you guys help you help support y’all. We want to make sure they have the support you need. And you have a good comprehensive plan to get what’s going in the right direction if you’re not having success. And then also just try to apply one thing today as well. If you’re having if you’re overwhelmed, and you’re having a sticking point great to reach out, if not just try applying this information, we want to really help as many people as possible. And we know we’re going to help many more people than we actually see in person with this information. So just make sure you’re applying it. And if you are enjoying it, share it with family and friends that could also benefit put your comments down below. Let me know the best part that you liked about this what resonate with you the most. And give us a like and share as well. We appreciate it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and if you’re on the apple listening, if you’re on your Apple podcast app or Stitcher or wherever else, give us some stars, let us know what you think the show deserves between us both we have I lost count, but it was somewhere over 705 star reviews for our podcast in between our various feeds. So please give us some stars. Give us some sentences give us a blurb on whether you still call it iTunes or Apple podcast. We’d love to beat out people that are not clinically oriented. There’s still like top health podcast out there that it’s just theory theory theory theory. And then we have to like recalibrate people’s theories because they’re not clinically based. So we would love to beat those people. How do we beat those Before we go higher in the charts, how do we do that? With your reviews! So we have a some stars. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks to all you guys have a phenomenal day. Take careDr. Justin Marchegiani  

Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Today’s podcast is we’re going to be talking about the top five nutrients to address gut inflammation, and leaky gut or gut permeability. So this is a topic that’s pertinent to a lot of our patients as gut inflammation, there’s usually some component in why they’re not feeling good. So I’m really excited to address this today with Evan, we’re gonna dive into the things that we do clinically, the things that work with our patients, the things that actually get results, we’ll break it down, and we’ll kind of give you guys some action items for today as well. And what’s cooking man? How are we doing?

Evan Brand: Hey, you’re doing really well. And you know, we always come up with a title. And then we over deliver on that title. So we’re calling this something along the lines of top five nutrients to help your gut or to heal your gut or support intestinal permeability, but maybe we end up going over five. So I’m just gonna go straight to my favorite because it’s so easy. It’s so broad spectrum in its use. And it’s so safe for people across the board to use it, whether it’s kids, adults, the elderly population, even people that don’t have testing, you know, our philosophy is test don’t guess we want to have the data, we want to have good stool testing, and good organic acids testing to look into the gut deeper and figure out what’s going on under the hood. But there is usually a three, sometimes four week timeline between talking with a client or a new patient and then getting the test results. So what do we do to help these people in that in between time before we can do the real work based on the data, I’d say my favorite is probably aloe, and specifically you and I use an aloe extract. It’s a 200 to one, so it’s 200 pounds of gel converted to one pound of extract, and then that’s encapsulated. We had a young boy, not super young, maybe 16 17. But he was diagnosed with autoimmune gut issues, Crohn’s all sort of colitis, actually pan colitis where the whole digestive tract was affected major bleeding in the store. We got him on simply a 200 to one extract of aloe. And within three weeks, we did a new gi map stool test, and we dropped his calprotectin levels, which is his gut inflammation by 1000 points, just by aloe alone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable. Yeah, it’s powerful what nutrients can do now I always tell patients, if you’re trying to come in and make some changes out of the gates, I mean, your best bang for your buck would be fixing the food, because the food is constantly getting your body getting your gut in flames. So the first thing we can do is look at the the the inflammatory food that could be coming in this could be gluten or other technically gluten free grains like corn, oat, rice, those kinds of things. So you want to really get the grains out, you want to really get a lot of the poly polyunsaturated omega six vegetable oils. And again, the reason why vegetable oils tend to be more, let’s say poor is because they’re highly processed to extract the fat. And the processing actually damages the fat and creates free radical stress within those fats. Because the more you take in damaged fats, your body has to utilize antioxidants to stabilize the fats. So they don’t create free radicals. And so it depletes a lot of your antioxidants. And then those fast take on and become part of your cell membrane. And to have healthy cells you have to have good membrane. Because the membrane essentially is the brain of your cell. It provides a lot of good cellular communication happens with the membrane. So if you have junky fats, whether it’s omega six junky fats, or trans fats like hydrogenated soybean oil, right, those kinds of things, canola, you know, safflower, those are going to be more junky omega six, and they’re going to really not make the healthiest cell membranes, they’re going to deplete your antioxidant reserves. And if they’re on the trans fat side, they’ll make your cell membranes very inflexible too.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. And I apologize for skipping over the diet piece, you know, you think of the typical American person, they think, just give me the pill. Give me the magic remedy. So we’ll talk about some of those remedies. But yeah, you make a great point, you can’t go out to Pizza Hut for dinner, and then just take an aloe capsule, and everything’s going to be okay. Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So that’s it’s good to look at the foundation out of the gates. I’d also say like, I’ll just kind of put this next category into a broad category and just say, amino acids. And these amino acids could be things like an acetylglucosamine, NaG that could be things like glycine, which are going to be very high in collagen or bone broth. And they could also be things like glutamine, so I kind of put these in the amino acid bucket, when they tend to be very good support for the entire sites of the gut lining, that can be used as fuel for the gut lining, they also can help with gut permeability. And, and glycine is a really good backbone for connective tissue. So it can be very helpful for that lot of that connective tissue healing out of the gates.

Evan Brand: So how about enzymes? When you hear nutrients to heal the gut or support the gut, you don’t necessarily think about enzymes, you think of more like you mentioned, the glutamine, Aloe, the kind of calming, soothing things, but I would argue enzymes have a role in helping with reducing gut inflammation simply by improving digestion and reducing the putrifying and fermenting of foods because I know my gut was Super inflamed. If I look back at some of my original stool tests, when I had gut infections, yes, I was doing things to soothe my gut, but simply just treated, the infections alone got the inflammation down. And part of that process of treating the infections was using enzymes, because my digestion was so terrible, I would get exhausted after a meal. And that was a sign that I had low stomach acid. So I would say the enzyme should be on our list here, because so many people do to age due to stress. Maybe you’re eating in a loud restaurant, like you’re on your lunch break for work, and you’re listening to us or there’s music, boom, boom, boom in the background, and you’re sympathetically stressed while you’re eating enzymes, to me would be a good insurance policy to help break down your foods and then therefore reduce inflammation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, foods are not broken down properly, they’re going to sit, they’re going to ferment, they’re going to purify, they’re going to read certify also, those foods are more likely to create hydrogen and methane gases because they’re fermenting, and those gases can throw off your motility, motility and how you move the bowels. And if the bowels are one too short, or should take too fast on the diarrhea side, you may not absorb those nutrients well. And if they’re too long, on the conservation side, you may reabsorb fecal toxins. And so you know, long or short on the bowel motility can definitely affect absorption or create more toxins in the body. So I think that’s a big one. And then just kind of connecting the enzymes and we could throw HCl in there too, because HCl helps activate enzymes, I would say chewing, chewing and and really just the mastication and healthy eating habits because chewing your food up really fine, allows more surface area for those enzymes and acids to work. So you can have a good amount of enzymes or acids, you only have a couple of chews. you swallow your food, those enzymes and acids aren’t gonna work as good as you really chew it up, you know, 30 to choose one chew per tooth, you know, ideally like an oatmeal like consistencies and allow those enzymes and acids to work better.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m 18th down. So I guess I get off the hook with 32. You know, I have my wisdom teeth and my 12 year molders out so.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, there you go. I mean, I have my wisdom teeth out as well. So I’m kind of at 28 as well. So I get it. So let’s just say 30 plus or minus a couple.

Evan Brand: It’s hard. I’ve tried to do that I’ve tried to do that many choose, oh man, my jaw gets tired. So and that’s the that’s the problem too, that we have with our food is like you go to Chipotle, a for example. Everything’s really soft. Like if you get rice if you get like carnitas. Or if you get the chicken, you barely have to chew it. It’s almost like mush. So I try to personally seek out occasionally I will seek out whether it’s like beef jerky, or no bison jerky or even just a steak, you know, I try to really get something that works my job because I just feel like in America, our food is so soft and easily digestible, that we don’t have to really chew anymore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so if you have a nice steak or a nice whole chicken, just make sure you chew it up. Same thing goes with over hydrating, you know, try to get your first thing I do is and I get to go eat a meal, I kind of go to the reverse osmosis filter, get a nice big glass of water to add some minerals, one, two, and then I get my meal going that way it gives me 10 15 minutes or so for everything to absorb. And of course the colder the water you got to take a little bit longer because your body holds that water in your stomach, heats it up to about room temperature and then passes it through. So the colder that water is, the longer you should wait in between the meal

About mushrooms. This is something that you know, just doing a little bit of research before we hit record, that this is something that I don’t necessarily go to right out of the gate but I’ve been using mushrooms for a long time. I know you and I personally have been taking mushrooms for a long time. And it turns out that for example, Lion’s Mane mushroom has some really, I would say probably just as impressive as some of the other herbs you’re mentioning, whether it’s like dgl, licorice or marshmallow kind of the conventional gut healing ones. Lion’s Mane has some really awesome anti inflammatory properties. There were two papers that we had found here on Lion’s Mane mushroom being shown to protect from and shrink gastric ulcers. Also, Lion’s Mane was shown to significantly improve symptoms of two major inflammatory disorders of the digestive system. And so that’s cool, because normally we’re using Lion’s Mane for cognitive problems. I know for me, my brain is much more clear. I’ve got Lion’s Mane mushroom in my system right now. I took two capsules this morning, and I certainly feel it mentally. But I did not even think that I was feeling it in my gut. So that’s cool.

Totally. Yeah, that gets really important. Again, a lot of gut issues, the immune system can be a big player at it. And so of course, if you’re able to modulate the immune system with the medicinal mushrooms, or immunogenic compounds that are going to be in those mushrooms, whether it’s beta one, three, D glucan, whatever that is, it could have an effect on gut permeability and improving digestion. I think all that’s very, very important. Also, just kind of one pet peeve of mine. Someone in the comments was chatting about this. A lot of people when they talk about leaky gut, they talk about leaky gut like like it’s the cause of Problem. leaky gut is the effects of on what’s happening with the gut. So the more inflamed you are, the more you’re not breaking down your food. The more crappy The food is, the more inflammatory The food is, the more dysbiosis we have, the the lack of certain nutrients we have, the more stress we are right. All that then creates and increases the chance of gut permeability. Gut permeability isn’t the cause unto itself. It’s the effects of a lot of other issues happening. So when people talk about Oh, you gotta fix the leaky gut. It’s like, not necessarily, you know, it’s like, it’s like saying, Oh, we have to fix. Imagine you have a leak in your roof and the waters pulling on the carpet below you. So we got to fix that water on the floor. It’s like, No, no, you fix the hole in the roof. And again, it may be semantics, but we got to call a spade a spade. If the water’s coming into the roof, you talk to them, we got to fix the hole in the roof. You don’t say we fixed the the water on the ground, right? So I just want everyone I want to train everyone to kind of get thinking about things from a root cause standpoint, versus labeling the damage at the end result conventional medicines really good at labeling damage down here and not talking about the effects of top that should the cause up top there labeling the effects down here. So we want to go root cause?

Yeah, that’s great. And I’m sure we could come up with other analogies on it. But that makes a lot of sense. It’s kind of like, okay, we need to come in with the towel. Oh, no. Now we have this super absorbent towel, this towel is going to absorb 1000 times more water on your floor than any other towel. And then yes, this, this carpet is mold resistant. So if you use this carpet, that water in your carpet won’t create mold, but you’re still missing the frickin hole in the roof roof.

Exactly, exactly. So we just got to really be on top of that. Make sure everyone’s thinking root cause I think that’s really helpful.

Well, let’s call it out. Let’s call out why that happens, though. It’s simply money. And it’s the supplement industry. There’s a lot of money. Yeah, it’s marketing. There’s a lot of money made on leaky gut this and this leaky gut book and this leaky gut protocol and this leaky gut practitioner. The problem is you could take all these leaky gut support for a decade and never treat the infections like if you just went and did like you mentioned glutamine, and we hit the zinc carnosine and the dgl. And we did the aloe, like we talked about in the beginning, none of those are going to erase a blastocyst is hominis, parasite infection, none of those are going to get rid of Giardia. None of those are going to treat the H pylori, they may help. But they’re definitely not going to eradicate the issue causing the leaky gut in the first place. So that’s just marketing. It’s money involved in this. And, you know, as practitioners, I think it’s really smart of you to call it out like that, because it’s, it is frustrating for us because we’ll look on a new client or new patients intake form. And they’ll be taking all these quote leaky gut supplements. Yeah, I found this leaky gut protocol online, and I still have all these digestive problems. And it’s like, well, yeah, look at your stool test, you have all these issues. And you could do that for 20 years and never fix it. So I could rant on that all day.

Yeah, other thing I would just say out of the gates is it’s okay to palliative Li support the leaky gut, we just have to make sure when you’re palliative Li supporting something we’re also root cause supporting it as well root cause fixing it. Palliative support, totally fine, right. Nothing wrong with that we just got to call a spade a spade and and not pretend the palliative leaky gut support is root cause support. Yeah, long as we can do that, then I think we’re pretty good. Next thing I would highlight out of the gates and you see this herb being listed as being very helpful for the gut permeability, but it’s also very helpful on the adrenal. So that’s licorice. And so when we use licorice is a lot of licorice being used in leaky gut supports. That’s that’s d glycerides. And this is the glycerides component of the licorice is pulled out. And the glycerides component of a licorice is is the component that slows the breakdown of cortisol, I think it’s the 11 beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase to enzyme. The licorice inhibits that enzyme. That’s the enzyme that helps break down cortisol. So we know cortisol too low, we need healthy levels of cortisol to actually build up the gut lining. It helps with building up the gut lining. Of course, if our cortisol levels are too high, and we’re chronically stressed, right, that can also break down the gut lining. We know that with people that are chronically stressed getting ulcers, right, we know that as well. And so when we look at licorice, it really helps with cortisol improvement. So if we do a cortisol test, and we see chronically low cortisol, that can actually help with the gut lining with the mucosa with the stomach with the duodenum. And that can actually help with the cortisol bringing that back up. And that can help build back up that gut lining. And so we like licorice, that’s non diglycerides for the gut and Nanda glycerides licorice, we give it typically orally sublingually, to our patients, that will eventually trickle downstream to the gut as well. And so licorice can be a powerful thing. You just have to be careful if you’re giving a non diglycerides version that people that have already higher level of cortisol, that may make things worse. So we just got to make sure we’re testing that to know what kind of pattern we’re seeing.

Yeah, that’s a good point. So we could do a whole part two on that. If you want. Give us some feedback. Like maybe the gut hormone connection. And we could hit that in detail. But yeah, you highlighted a very important point, which is that cortisol is involved with this whole process. And it really is a Goldilocks zone. If you have too little cortisol, you’re exhausted. And you’re probably going to be dependent on stimulants and caffeine and sugar and things that are going to damage your gut. But then simply, you don’t have enough to build up the gut. And then if you have too much, now you’re catabolic, you’re breaking down your muscle tissue, and you’re breaking down your gut barrier. That’s probably part of the reason that I lost a lot of weight and a lot of muscle. When I first moved to Texas, I had gut infections, and I was incredibly stressed, just moving and leaving my family behind, you know, emotional stuff, homesickness gut infections, I had the perfect storm to tear up my gut. So I can tell you firsthand that adrenal supports did help. And that was probably because it was helping regulate the cortisol levels, which then in turn, took the load off my gut, so to speak.

100% Yeah, I like that. And so it’s good to really make sure that’s under control. 

Evan Brand: How about probiotics? I think it’s worth mentioning. These are totally valuable tools that can help regulate histamine. Yeah, and regulate bacteria with it. So let’s dive into that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you have to you I said you have three to four big families. Okay. So you typically have your lactobacillus and bifidobacterium, which are typically come together and usually a good high quality broad spectrum probiotic. So my line we have one called profile, Florida doesn’t have a lot of the different lactobacillus whether it’s kci acidophilus Bulgaria’s brevis, rhamnosus. And then of course, you have a lot of the bifidobacterium whether it’s bifidobacterium, bifidum, longum, brevis, right. So those are your broad spectrum lactobacillus or bifidobacterium. Probiotics, lots of good data, lots of good research anywhere from food poisoning for inflammation reduction, gut permeability reduction. nutrient absorption is all kinds of different studies connecting the dots on those so that’s kind of the bifidobacteria, lactobacillus Of course, we have more of our spore based or soil based probiotics. These are going to be a lot of your bacillus strains, right, whether it’s bacillus, subtlest class ei coagulans, like Informix, right. These are the bacillus strains. These are really good if you are very much cebo sensitive, fodmap sensitive, we may use some of these over a bifido lactobacillus species. And then of course, I’m a big fan of the probiotic that’s kind of more of a beneficial yeast called Saccharomyces boulardii in my lammie, one called sacral flora, again, we’ll put the links below for for all y’all so if you want to see it, we’ll put the links below sacral Flora Saccharomyces boulardii is very helpful a lot of studies on it, helping to improve immunity in the gut IGA IGA levels going to get low and just gut inflammation or gut stress. Of course, it’s going to help with food poisoning a lot of studies on it helping with H. pylori, C. diff, Clostridium difficile, blastocystis hominess. It also helps crowd out yeast and Candida so there’s a lot of excellent benefits with saccharomyces we love it and it’s usually going to be a core part of my probiotic, my fifth r which is repopulation re inoculation on the good healthy probiotics, once the fourth hour is done right fourth hours and to be removing the gut bugs removing the gut infections. Fifth hour, we come in repopulate re inoculate with good bacteria. Most people kind of sweet they want to start probiotics sooner, and that may not be the best step. Not saying it may not help. But some people have just found one that’s just a lot of pills. And two, if they have a lot of bad bugs in there. It’s like going and getting a whole bunch of good fresh grass seeds throw down on a lawn full of weeds, right? You got to get the weeds done before we throw down the seeds right got to get the car washed or we get waxed.

Evan Brand: Kind of like that. Yeah, we had a lot of good feedback on the podcast we did remember we were talking about probiotics and how a lot of new research is showing probiotics are being used to help with getting out mycotoxins and we know that mold toxins damage the gut. So yes, so I have been I’ve honestly been working in probiotics into the protocol sooner and most people do well. There are some like you said that just don’t you got to pull the weeds before you throw the seeds. But there are a lot of people doing really good with throwing probiotics and sooner in the protocols now. So like you said, if they can handle the amount of pills, maybe we try to sneak one or two in or we could do like powdered versions, typically, it’s like a quarter teaspoon, we could throw in a blend like that sack be you could you could do powder and maybe throw it in a smoothie or something. So we are trying to integrate those a lot. And I’ve had amazing success personally with probiotics. So I think it’s interesting, there’s still a lot of people that poopoo probiotic probiotics I know you and I we kind of get, you know, so caught up in the clinical trenches that we may miss some things, but I do get a couple of emails, you know, here and there from from people, clients sending them like, hey, this guy like says probiotics are a waste of money, and you know, that they don’t work. And I would just say that’s not true. We have so much clinical data personally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about context, right? It’s like if someone comes in, they have chronic gut issues, and they’re just taking a probiotic thinking that that’s going to be the answer to their gut problems. It’s probably not right, and that’s where we’re trying to have a comprehensive functional medicine plan. That’s root cause and not just trying to Pro supplements at the wall thinking that that’s going to fix it. So yeah, I understand if that you know where that person is coming up with that, that bias that biases from not having a comprehensive root cause plan with a functional medicine practitioner, they’re just trying to throw stuff at them instead it hoping it will fix the symptoms, not fix the root cause.

Well, here’s Yeah, good, good point. Here’s the other thing, too, it’s even some probiotic companies will say that about other companies, it’s more of a marketing thing like, hey, their probiotic is crap, or it doesn’t work because of X, Y, or Z. But I will just say with what you and I use, clinically, we’re using professional supplement manufacturers exclusive only to health care providers. And a lot of the stuff we use, we have extended release technology. So when arguments like probiotics are going to die in the stomach, they’re not even going to make it to where they need to. But a lot of the new technology we use, they’re not even going to break open, they’re going to be resistant to the stomach acid. So that’s another problem too, when you hear these little like, super sometimes buzzworthy type articles. It’s not taking into consideration the quality, the quantity, the purity, the potency, the technology involved, it’s like probiotics, they get the label, and then that’s it. And that’s just not a fair classification.

Correct. And then also consumer reports that a study on probiotics a couple years back maybe 5 10 years ago. And what they found is most probiotics that they put a number on the outside of the bottle, hey, this is how many colony forming units. And what a lot of the cheap companies do is they say, Okay, this is how many should have been in this probiotic at manufacturing of this product. Let’s say it’s 20 billion. Now, what the professional companies do is, right, when you’re buying high quality, professional ingredients, they’re gonna say this is how many colony forming units should be in this capsule at expiration. And so you’re looking at something like two to three times the amount of those that species that CFU on the bottle colony forming units, is going to be typically in there. So when you see like, in my probiotic, I think it’s 40 billion per two capsules, right? That’s going to be what’s in there two years from now at expiration, right? And so obviously, it’s going to be two to three times the amount of that before. And so you want to use professional companies. So what you see on the label is always worst case, scenario, number one, and then also how products are stored by professional companies is very important. So like, where we have our warehouses, like everything is stored in an air conditioned or a refrigerated environment for a lot of our probiotics, some don’t necessarily need that. But which we value, the the scenario and how that store because that really increases potency, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And the funny thing is, too, we’ve seen some papers on supposedly expiration dates, you know, this is something that you and I are forced to do with the professional companies we work with. But you know, we’ve seen some research on supplements from 2030 years ago, still being viable, meaning they still had some potency and purity to them. And obviously, they still had a biological effect. So to me, I would if I had to pick like a consumer shelf bought probiotic, or a suppose that expired professional product, I’m going to go for the supposedly expired product, I’d go for a five year old professional probiotic, then, you know, on the shelf today consumer level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And also a lot of the probiotics or supplements that require refrigeration on the warehousing side, a lot of times you’re just not going to get that on Amazon, you’re not going to get that level of specificity just because that’s not how their warehouses are set up. And so with ours, we make sure that that refrigeration components is there because we’re working with patients and we need we need that potency, because we’re trying to get clinical outcomes, right. We’re trying to sell and provide a clinical outcome for the patient. And if we’re just providing products that aren’t meeting that standard, we’re not going to win. And of course, we want to be successful on that front.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. Well say Well, I think we covered a lot of it. So the mushrooms are beneficial Lion’s Mane the mushroom is amazing for the brain, but for the gut also Chaga mushroom would be great reishi mushroom could also deserve a good mention, you hit upon the amino acids. So the glutamine or the various types of glucose amines involved. We love amino acids, we use those all the time you mentioned like collagen also being you know, part of that makeup, we hit on some of the herbs like the the licorice, or the dgl version of it, the marshmallow, we like to use a lot, we hit upon the aloe, and then we hit the probiotics, I think those are the big categories. And then the enzymes we hit that too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we did a really good job hitting a couple and I just I really want to plug in concepts, right? Like a lot of people, they just try to throw information at people and and try to memorize that. I think that’s not beneficial. But if you can just understand concepts, right? A concept is just something that sticks. You either get it or you don’t. And so we try to use a lot of analogies and understand we try to plug in a lot of the concepts of root cause versus palliative cause. We try to get you to think about, hey, if this helps, why does it help? is it just an anti inflammatory? is it helping just improve better digestion? is it helping your immune system? is it helping your adrenals and helping you that your body’s natural process to build back up that gut lining? What’s the underlying mechanisms if you understand that, then you see how it plugs into the greater matrix of healing.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, I agree 1,000%. So, I think the big concept of today is Yes, here are some things here are some nutrients you can use. However, we really want to make sure you’re testing, not guessing. So if you do need the aloe to calm the gut for now, you need the enzymes to help improve digestion. For now, you notice that HCl is helping with your heartburn or you notice that the enzymes are reducing your bloating, or your burping or your gas. Great, but what led to all that in the first place? What led you to need the aloe because you had gut inflammation, what led you to need the enzymes, that’s where somebody like us can come in and help you figure that out and plot it on paper. And, you know, we’ve been through the trenches personally. And clinically, we’re always improving upon herself. You know, I work on my children, I know you work on your children, we’re giving our kids things to help their guts, I mean, so this is like a, there’s no finish line, I don’t want people to think, Hey, I just do this aloe for a month, and then I’m done. You know, there’s not a finish line with the gut, we’re constantly being exposed to new toxins and new pathogens. We’ve even seen with the virus that’s been going around a lot of issues with the gut there, we’ve seen a lot of issue with tissue destruction in the intestinal tract. So who knows? Right now with the 5 10 year outlook of the GI health in the US is right now, our guts are notoriously bad, due to glyphosate and other things, damaging them. So just a quick note, you kind of started with the diet all and with the diet 100% organic is important, if you’re going to go buy all these probiotics, but yet, you’re going to eat strawberries with an average of 22 pesticides on them. If they’re not organic, you’re wasting your frickin time and your money because we know all those pesticides are just killing the beneficial bacteria in your gut that you’re trying to re inoculate or repopulate with. So please go organic, you know, before you spend money on probiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then also how long do these probiotic strains last in your gut, I mean, a lot of times, you’re going to see the data show in about one month or so. So that they don’t stay forever. So when you take a probiotic, it’s not like it’s there forever. So it’ll it’ll hang around typically for a month, it’ll help with a nutrient synthesis, it’ll help with nutrient absorption, it’ll help with inflammation, modulating the immune system, there’s some data that maybe the spore based probiotics hang around a little bit longer, and they may help proliferate the growth of other beneficial species. So just think when you take a probiotic, it’s not forever. Now the goal is that we’re getting some level of fermentable foods in your diet, whether it’s from sauerkraut, or low sugar kombucha, or some kind of fermented pickle or something, or, you know, cultured coconut milk or potentially high quality raw milk if you can tolerate it. So you know, that’s typically how we’re getting exposed to probiotics more on a day in weekend kind of situation. If you’re someone that can’t get that level of exposure with fermented oils from food, then you probably want to be on a probiotic a little bit more frequently, if you’re not getting those fermentable. So we just got to plug and play where we’re at. I think our ancestors probably did more fermentable foods, which is ideal. But if we can’t we plug in a good quality probiotic, or at least throw in something every couple of months, just to kind of fill in the gap to make sure we’re getting exposed to those good for mandibles.

Evan Brand: Yeah, great point, I just want to highlight what you said too, which is like your gut bacteria are actually going to help you with your health in other ways. So once gut bacteria optimize your healing the gut, you’re making neurotransmitters the way you should you’re making serotonin, you’re making things to improve yourself, you’re making B vitamins to help your energy and your mitochondria. So this is why I really the gut, I mean, we just we can’t stop talking about it because it literally is the foundation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So just kind of want to make sure that is understood. And that makes sense for everyone. We’ll put a list of recommended products down below. So you guys have access to those you want to support us support the show, we appreciate it put those down below. Also, if you guys want to reach out to Evan brand, head over to EvanBrand.com, Evan is there for you guys worldwide. And again, I’m there for you as well, justinhealth.com, Dr. J myself, there’ll be a little link button, you guys can click and reach out to us we are available worldwide to help you guys help you help support y’all. We want to make sure they have the support you need. And you have a good comprehensive plan to get what’s going in the right direction if you’re not having success. And then also just try to apply one thing today as well. If you’re having if you’re overwhelmed, and you’re having a sticking point great to reach out, if not just try applying this information, we want to really help as many people as possible. And we know we’re going to help many more people than we actually see in person with this information. So just make sure you’re applying it. And if you are enjoying it, share it with family and friends that could also benefit put your comments down below. Let me know the best part that you liked about this what resonate with you the most. And give us a like and share as well. We appreciate it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and if you’re on the apple listening, if you’re on your Apple podcast app or Stitcher or wherever else, give us some stars, let us know what you think the show deserves between us both we have I lost count, but it was somewhere over 705 star reviews for our podcast in between our various feeds. So please give us some stars. Give us some sentences give us a blurb on whether you still call it iTunes or Apple podcast. We’d love to beat out people that are not clinically oriented. There’s still like top health podcast out there that it’s just theory theory theory theory. And then we have to like recalibrate people’s theories because they’re not clinically based. So we would love to beat those people. How do we beat those Before we go higher in the charts, how do we do that? With your reviews! So we have a some stars. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks to all you guys have a phenomenal day. Take care.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-top-5-nutrients-to-address-gut-inflammation-and-leaky-gut-podcast-339

Recommended products:

Amino Acid Supreme

TRruKeto Collagen

TRUCOLLAGEN (Grassfed)

Probio Flora

Enzyme Synergy

Betaine HCL Supreme

Genova NutErval

 

Why is My Digestion Broken – Lab Test Interpretation of GI MAP with Lisa Pomeroy | Podcast #335

The digestive system is a winding and extensive part of the body. It ranges from the mouth to the rectum. The digestive system assists your body in absorbing vital nutrients and is responsible for getting rid of waste.

Because there are so many types of digestion issues, you might mistakenly dismiss them. Dr. J and Lisa emphasize that it’s essential to understand the root cause of digestion issues — as well as emergencies — so you know when to talk to a functional doctor and have yourself tested.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00 – Introduction

3:31 – GI MAP Interpretation from a sample patient

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. I am with Lisa Pomeroy. Really excited to have her on today’s podcast. We’re gonna be chatting about different kinds of lab tests. Everything labs really. Our goal today is to show, we’re gonna be really diving into the gut tests, really looking at gut function. One of the big tests we’ll look at is the GI map and how to interpret that and some of the big take-homes as we go through that to you know pull out action items as we address patient concerns. And the next one we’ll go into is the ion panel where we’ll get a really good window into mitochondrial function, neurotransmitter function, overall nutrient absorption, gut function, etc. So, really excited to have Lisa on the show today. Lisa, how you doing? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Doing good! How about yourself?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey,doing wonderful. Really excited to, uh, chat with you, very good. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. So, why don’t you let people know a little bit more about yourself me, you’re a clinician as well. 

Lisa Pomeroy: I am yeah. I am a traditional naturopath. Um, I’ve done a bunch of differential functional medicine training programs. So, you know like, you I’m a graduate of Dan Kalish’s, uh, Kalish spectatorship. So, I love learning and a lot of the learning was something I had to do to try to get myself healthy.  Because when we talk about gut issues, I had major gut issues. I mean, as young as seventh grade, I was having ulcer-like pain and unfortunately, no one I went to, knew about H. pylori, knew about testing for H. pylori, treating H. pylori, so I had to suffer in silence for another 20 years with severe stomach pain before I run the test on myself, found I had H. pylori and got rid of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow! That is crazy. What a story.

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, I come home from school and drink cabbage juice. I mean, I was that devoted because it’s the only thing that would help. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, intuitively you knew the vitamin you in there was helping. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you really had to wait a long time, so that’s crazy because you must have so much appreciation for what we all do today. You have a lot of empathy for your patients. That’s great! It’s important to have that. 

Lisa Pomeroy:  Yeah, I talk to people and we’ll talk about like a five-year-old child or something and I just, you know, I’m just so grateful because it’s like I’m so glad that they have that the parents know enough to be getting this child help so they don’t have to suffer like I did for another 20-30 years with severe gut pain. You know, we find out that they have a nasty parasite in their gut and we get rid of it and they’re not gonna be nutritionally deficient and have all these gut symptoms for decades. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally. Yeah. And it’s important, I mean obviously out of the gate, the labs are important to give us a lot of information that’s clinically actionable but you know diet and lifestyle, foundational things, a lot of these, you know, we probably don’t need a lab test per se. I mean, it’s good to have it right? I t’s nice to know, like okay, maybe there’s some gluten sensitivity, maybe there’s some inflammation, maybe there’s some immune activation and we should kind of start some diet changes and there’s some foundational things that you tend to find that just generally help most people out of the gates, you know, maybe sugar or gluten. What things you specifically utilize?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, exactly! I mean, we look at the top pro-inflammatory foods in the diet. Most people say gluten, dairy, white refined sugar and ultra-processed foods. You know, those are gonna be some of your top things, where a lot of people will notice a difference, where you can pull it out, you know, you can do a trial where you, you know, you eat whole unprocessed foods, your whole fruits and veggies, roots and tubers, you know, that sort of things. You cut out the dairy you see how you do, so yes, testing can be helpful with that, but some of it can just be, you know, take it out and see how you feel.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: See how you feel

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. Oh cool. Why don’t we dive into some of the GI map testing out of the gates. I got a sample patient here, we’ll pull it up on screen. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll kind of whip through it and we’ll try to keep it actionable. I mean, unlike a lot of shows, you know, you’re a clinician, I’m a clinician, you interact with patients and doctors throughout the week and so we’re trying to get people, real actionable information here. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, great!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you see the screen here? 

Lisa Pomeroy: I can. Yeah. It’s coming through nice and clear. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool. So, we’ll just kind of start off, um right off the bat here, page one. So, we’re looking at a lot of bacterial pathogens, some parasite pathogens and viral stuff. I’ll let you, kind of take it away with the first part. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Sure. So, basically what I want to see on this first page is nothing. You know, these are things that really don’t belong there. So, I want to see that less than DL which stands for below the detectable limit for all the things down the page. Now, some of these, we don’t necessarily need to interfere with, like that E. coli 0157, uh, that one is something it’s an acute pathogen. It’s actually, uh, like a foodborne pathogen and we’ve been seeing a lot of these pathogenic E. coli lately. They tend to peak in the late summer months, so July, August, September, we see a lot of them, just because they’re on the fresh produce, you know, the leafy greens, served lettuce, your basil, your berries. So, you pick them up and so we’re looking for symptoms. Now, this case, this is a very teeny tiny little level E0. So, that is something they either just picked up a very small amount or is mostly on its way out. And that’s where an E. coli like 0157, you know, is something that’s considered transient, self-limiting, it’ll go away on its own. Now, it may or may not give you symptoms. If you did get symptoms, they probably last for less than a week, probably get some diarrhea, some cramping, fever, nausea, that sort of thing. So, sometimes we’ll see these on the report and we go, okay, well, that explains why you had diarrhea two weeks ago, you know, you got a hold of this bug, but, you know, it may not be something we actually need to do something about. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But every now and then, you see the 01h57, I mean, you see, that with spinach a lot, these people will die every year with it. So, if it can be serious to people are, have a compromised immune system or gut function, right? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! And that’s what especially the elderly, the young children, they are the greater risk of more severe types of infections and that’s where a lot of times people, you know, and a lot of times they know that were, you know, the time say they got some diarrhea, they run the test, they’re waiting for the results to come back. Usually, those symptoms are going to peak, before the results came back, so they know I’m having severe things are coming out both ends basically. I’m puking, bloody diarrhea. They should know they need to go to seek emergency medical care. And that’s something where, you know, usually by the time, we’re seeing people. Now, most people don’t get that severe, but if they would, they would have sought medical attention. So, usually, we’re seeing the side more like, oh yeah, I had loose stools for two days, I just my gut was a little off, you know. So, we may not to intervene, although, I always look for there’s deeper bigger issues because, really, you know, the body is meant to protect us from these infections, so if you were susceptible to picking up the E.coli on your spinach or your lettuce, you know, where was the stomach acid, shouldn’t that come in and killed what, you know, you ate and went through your stomach or what about secretory IgA, this is marker later on the test that tells you about gut immunity. You know, secretory IgA. Yep, there it is, yep. So, that one, if that’s low, you know, that’s a problem because that can actually engulf pathogens, so they can’t attach to the bowel wall, can take them so the immune system knows that’s a bad guy, we got to get rid of it. So, if you have a good stomach acid, good bile, those are antimicrobials to kill things, if you have a good secretory IgA, that’s your gut immunity, that’s gonna protect you, it’s our first line of defense. So, again, if I see an E. coli, I may not need to do some protocol to get rid of it, it may just go away on its own. But I’m looking for the deeper issues. You know, if you don’t have good stomach acid, you’re probably gonna pick up E. coli again next summer or whenever you again eat something that has it on it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That totally makes sense. I’ll scroll back here to page one, so we can go in order, uh, and then obviously we have some other food poisoning types of bacteria here Campylobacter, uh, Salmonella, we may see in chicken. Do this change anything for you if someone still has something lingering and some gutted gut issues, I mean, you’re still going to try to address it with some herbals when it’s appropriate. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! Yeah. Some of these and there is, you know, research keeps coming out where we’re thinking something like Campylobacter, you know, we think it’s something that just temporarily stays in the gut and then it’s gone. It’s kind of like a hit and run, where it does its damage and then it leaves the gut repairs. But, in some people, they’ve actually done some duodenal aspirates and find that, you know, they can actually find it still in the gut and the person hasn’t had that recent food poisoning incident. So, there is a little bit of a question with some of these, could they actually stick around a little bit longer and that’s definitely a problem too. So, if they show up on a single report, you know, say Campylobacter, shows up, my initial assumption is yeah, you probably ate some chicken or something lately that had it, but if I’m seeing repeated tests, maybe it’s a chronic colonizer or maybe you keep getting food poisoning, maybe you’re eating at some local fast food chicken place that maybe doesn’t have the best quality chicken or again, you have low stomach acid. It takes very few organisms to infect you if you have low stomach acid, so again, we need to look at, is this a chronic issue for repeatedly seeing it. Is this low stomach acid, low gut immunity, something’s wrong.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then same thing here, we have different types of sugar toxins which are, these are toxins actually produced by the E. coli, is that correct?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, E. coli was kind of unique in that there’s, they’re all pathogenic E. coli. You can kind of lump them all together that, but they have different mechanisms of actions, different toxins they produce and so they kind of each got their own special name even though you can all just lump them all together, they’re just food borne pathogenic E. colis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That are gonna produce different toxins that would create inflammation. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Uhum, yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, either way, you’re gonna be, you know, trying to clean out the diet and use some kind of herbal to kind of knock it down so to speak. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep, and I look at food quality, I also, you know, because something like, you know, again, chicken could be a source of Salmonella, Campylobacter. If you’re eating conventional chicken versus organic chicken. They found, you know, when they’ve actually done research studies on this the non-organic ones are more highly contaminated with these bugs than the organic plus they tend to be more antibiotic resistance. So, say, if you do get Campylobacter, Salmonella, chances are it’s going to be a very nasty type that’s not going to respond to treatment, if you did need treatment. Um, and then certain, techniques too like, you know, personally I get organic pastured air chilled chicken because there’s again how is the chicken processed, they can put it in a chlorine bath which is just essentially like a fecal soup, they have all of these chicken carcasses just in this big tub of chlorinated water. And so, if you have one contaminated chicken carcass in this big pool, it can contaminate other ones. Versus air chilled, they’re kind of, you know, just single hanging on their own, so again, they’ve done the research where air chilled is less contaminated with these microbes. So again, whether you’re susceptible or not, I mean, I still don’t wanna, you know, I do my best cleaning my produce, you know, buying good quality food. So, we’re looking at food hygiene, food quality, but you know, you do things the little things that you can do, when purchasing these things to prevent your exposure. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool. We also skipped, I think C. diff out of the gate so C. diff is a bacterial infection, it can, it’s common in hospitals. High levels of antibiotics can mess up your gut and create an imbalance there, um, obviously toxins A and B together tend to be more synergistic and worse than just one. Do you want to add to that at all? Comments to that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so a lot of people see this test and they panic when C. diff comes up because we know that C. diff can be a nasty infection. However, we have to keep in mind what this test is measuring, is the bacteria not the toxins. So, what this tells you is that, there’s C. diff bacteria in the gut that carries the gene that would allow it to produce toxin A and or toxin B. Whether it’s actually doing that at the moment is the question. So, what’s defined as C. diff infection is the bacteria are there actively producing the toxins and the toxins are whether damaging the gut causing the diarrhea, the classic C. diff presentation. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What is that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Now, a lot of people are actually colonized with C. diff, where the bacteria is there but maybe you have some good guys that are keeping it in balance preventing it from turning on those genes and producing the toxins and so that’s where it’s important to have the good bacteria there to not wipe them out by antibiotics or other things. So, we can’t differentiate between infection or colonization here, you know, this is just telling us, C. diff bacteria is there and you know, we don’t really want it there. Now, if someone does have symptoms that indicate a possible infection, you know, we certainly could do further testing and actually test those toxins to confirm. But a lot of people, if they say, well, I’m constipated, you know, probably not a C. diff infection, you know it’s, if they don’t  present like those classic symptoms, it’s probably more colonization which is far more common but I still don’t want it there because it’s essentially lying in wait, waiting for the opportunity, you get a UTI, you take around antibiotics, now again, you killed the organisms protecting against this, so now, you do turn on the gene, get the toxins,  get the C. diff infection. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, we have the bacteria that has potential to make this toxin but it’s not necessarily show that the same toxin, they are b is present. It’s more the potential of it based on the bacteria.

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! This tells us about the bacteria and not whether toxins are actually being produced. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And this Clostridium, isn’t the same as on page two. This one is a little bit different but this is a kind of more the overall class where this is more of the specific type of Clostridium within that class. Is that correct?

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! So, C. difficile is a pathogenic organism that’s part of that large group. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That family. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, but Clostridia actually has a lot of beneficial butyrate producers. So, this is just picking up, there’s a very small subgroup of maybe more pathogenic potentially harmful ones within the group. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Very good! Excellent! Anything you want to see down here? I mean we have you mentioned a kind of Salmonella, more connected to chicken and eggs, things like that, uh, cholera more waterborne. Anything else you want to say about Cholera or Yersinia?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so, Vibrio in the U.S. the most common source is actually seafood. So that’s what I’m checking to see if it’s like, okay Vibrio comes up, which doesn’t all that often but once in a while it will. I just check, you know, did you eat seafood recently and it’s always, oh yeah, I had some shrimp and you know, again, may or may not had those acute symptoms but you know often there’s recent seafood consumption. Now, in other countries, it’s more through the water, through, you know, just dirty water that has fecal contamination, here it’s usually seafood. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, very good! And then, um, Yersinia, you said, is that seafood as well? That was just the vibrio?

Lisa Pomeroy: That’s just a vibrio. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about Yersinia?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, that one can come through many different sources, um, sometimes it could be, you know, even raw dairy products, could be pork, you know, many different sources for food, uh, but this one actually can be a trigger for Hashimoto’s. So, it doesn’t show up. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can. 

Lisa Pomeroy: It can, yeah. So, it doesn’t show up all that often but if it does, I’m looking at the thyroid antibodies and other testing or seeing if there’s already a diagnosis of Hashimoto’s. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good! And then parasite wise, we have Crypto, E. histo, and Giardia, which definitely are the big three, right, um, Crypto primarily found in water, E. histo is going to be nasty little amoebic that people don’t know it’s in the top three to five causes of death in third world countries. It’s a nasty little bugger. 

Lisa Pomeroy: It is!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then Giardia, as well, which loves to hide in the gallbladder. I’m gonna let you kind of go into those one by one. Quick question, why do they have these parasites here and then on page four, a separate section for parasites? Why don’t they put them all in one spot? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. My thought is that, you know, within the medical community, certain pathogens now are widely accepted as disease causing. So, like, pretty much, I mean a conventional doctor, a functional medicine doctor, they’re all going to say, you know, Crypto, Giradia, E. histo are bad. You know, we don’t wanna see those. Now, Blastocystis hominis, you know, most functional medicine practitioners will say that, that has a lot of potential to cause harm, linked it with Hashimoto’s and you know, hives and IBS. But from the conventional standpoint, they’re not entirely convinced because some people can have Blasto and not have symptoms. So, the ones on page four, there is research supporting that all of them have pathogenic potential but they’re not as widely accepted as a 100% pathogenic unlike the ones on page one. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Makes sense. I know a lot of people like Mayo clinic are starting to say, hey if you have Blasto and have some level of symptoms, well, you probably should address it, you know, most people that we see the problem is. Well, what constitutes a symptom from Blasto for instance we know a lot of gut issues can cause extra-intestinal symptoms like fatigue, brain fog, mood issues, sleep issues. So then, how do you really connect the dots? Obviously, we have diarrhea, constipation, acid reflux, bloating, right? But sometimes you get these extra intestinal ones which are a little weird. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! Like Blasto, people say, oh well I have no gut pain, and then I start asking more about their symptoms like, oh well, I do have chronic hives, and I have joint pain and I have, you know, these other symptoms, it’s like. Well, I can show you research study that’s linked that to Blasto. Yes, it’s not a gut related system symptom, but it’s been linked to blasto.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yeah, very good. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. Yeah. So, going over the page one pathogen, so yeah, Cryptosporidium, Giardia, those are actually both small intestinal infections, whereas the E. histo is a large intestine infection. Um, but Crypto and Giardia, often can be from the water, so we do have to look at drinking water and for Giardia, recreational water can be a big source too. So, again, a lot of these pathogens have their seasons. So Giardia, we can see more prevalent in the summer months because people are going in and swimming in lakes and streams and rivers and swimming pools and you know, or going water rafting or you know doing things recreational water parks and you just get a mouthful of water and chlorine doesn’t consistently kill it unfortunately. So, you still could get it or it could be your well water so I was always look to if we see Giardia, what are you drinking, you know, are you drinking well water, is it filtered, you know, are you, do you swim in lakes and streams, ponds, you have a swimming pool, so we always want to look at that because sometimes if there is, if it is well water and it has Giardia and you can often test your water for these bugs too, you know, we wanna make sure we’re getting rid of that source. Um, but yeah, I mean that could be, these can be nasty again. You can pick them up on the food. All of these have what they call the fecal oral route. So basically, if you know, again, it could be animal poop and stuff that just gets on your leafy greens because your cattle farm is next to your lettuce farm. There’s a little runoff and yeah, it’s hard to wash your produce. I mean, I still recommend soaking fresh produce in water with a little vinegar or hydrogen peroxide in it to try to kill those bugs. But even still, I mean, lettuce has so many little nooks and crannies, it’s hard to get it all killed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely! And we probably want to make sure every patient that we see, the clinician that we see is recommending a good quality water at least a carbon-based one or ideally even at reverse osmosis just really make sure we filter out all those potential parasitic cysts plus water’s got a whole bunch of nasty things in it, like chlorine, like potential fluoride and pharmaceuticals that you want to filter out as well. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! Clean water is a must whether it’s the bugs or the toxins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! Any other comments on the viral pathogens here? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah again, those you know, again, tend to acute rather than chronic colonizers. Although, again, Norovirus, there is some evidence, it could be a chronic. But you know, these will feel often like a stomach flu. So again, you usually pick it up more your food like poisoning. But, some of these, you could pick up, like Norovirus, say you go to a public restroom, you touch the faucet handle and then you eat your lunch without washing your hands. You know, if you touch something with the virus, you put your hands in your mouth, you could pick up something like Norovirus from touching objects too. But, usually feels like a stomach flu. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay cool. Well, let’s drive into H. pylori here next, um, and also just a little reference range, um, tidbit for a lot of folks here. If you’re trying to figure out the reference range, you see, I don’t know, let’s say. Let’s go on to see where’s a good example. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Well, H. pylori, it’s a big one too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, but if you look at E. coli, you’re trying to figure out where this fits in the reference range. If the exponent is below the reference range, then you got to move to the left. So, this really is .00860 and then if its above, like this, this is e to the five, right, then you have to move to the right to make it just to make it equal, um, the exponents kind of throw a lot of patients off that I, I find when we go through them all. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. Exactly. Yep.  And it’s just, it’s in scientific nomenclature, yeah, it’s just otherwise, you have a ton of zeros. Yeah. It just cleans up the report. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly!

Lisa Pomeroy: And there’s nice, like these are powers of ten, so you can get like powers at tens chart like e3 is a thousand. So, you can go, oh, that’s e3 is a thousand, take the 2.9 multiply it, that’s 2900 cells. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! Exactly! And then really quick here with the H. pylori. I haven’t seen the last year so a ton of virulence factors come back on my patients. Have you seen that as the lab kind of tone down the sensitivity with that? Have you noticed?

Lisa Pomeroy: It depends. Fortunately, we don’t see them often, which I mean the problem with virulence factors is they’ve been associated in the literature with higher risk of gastric cancer, gastric ulcers, cardiovascular disease. So, if you have H. pylori that has these attached to it, it has more potential to cause harm and disease. Now, I just saw one yesterday, where she has a history of H. pylori and unfortunately, she got it back again and she had it pretty much looked like this one. It had like four or five virulence factors, which is what she was dealing with before too. So, we do still pick them up, you know, again, fortunately, it’s not as often because this is the really nasty type of H. pylori, you don’t want to see. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! And then, regarding the reference range, this is above one. If someone is borderline or a little bit below, would you typically want to treat them or let’s say if they had symptoms, would you still want to treat them? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, it becomes more of a clinical decision if it’s below that of a thousand cell threshold. But we have had people have like, this is a 2.9 e3. We’ve had people like a 2.6 e2, which is just 260 cells. They’ve had endoscopies and have been told that their stomach was covered in H. pylori and highly inflamed. So, sometimes, this can be the tip of the iceberg. We have to remember where is this infection located. This is a stomach infection. So, something in the stomach, you know it depends on how much is being shed into the GI tract that day. It’s got to travel 20, 22 feet through the intestinal tract to come out the other end. So sometimes, this is going to be heavily diluted from what we started out with. So, this could, yeah, so this could be a glimpse of what’s there. So that’s where there I, you know, it comes down to the clinical decision, does this fit. If someone comes in and they have gas and bloating and GERD and reflux and stomach pain and I see a borderline level, a moderate positive, I’m probably gonna do a protocol because it fits. Now, if this was a very low level and they had absolutely no symptoms and I looked through the rest of the report, their microbiome looks good, their enzymes look good, their gut immunity looks good, maybe it’s okay. Maybe they have good Lactobacillus and things keeping it in check. But I wanna see signs that it’s not causing any harm so that’s where I look at the symptoms, the history, the rest of the report. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. And then with these cytotoxic proteins, are these more genetic type of risk factors because of the, because of the genes or are they specifically connected to the H. pylori and if you knock down the H. pylori, will knock down these cytotoxic proteins? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! So, these are genes attached to bacteria. They’re not related to the person. So, as you kill the bacteria, the virulence factors go with the bacteria. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it! You can clear them as the bacteria gets knocked down. You can, you can knock down the bacteria that has those genes attached to it.  

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! Like, if you have babA that just allows the H. pylori to stick to the stomach a little bit better. So, we have to, we might bring a little cranberry juice because that has an anti-adhesive property to it. So, we just try to undo that little trick that the H. pylori has which here, the babA allows it to stick so we’re going to do something so it can’t stick. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, would that be a good recommendation if you had H. pylori without the babA?

Lisa Pomeroy: You could actually because there is research that shows that cranberry juice seems to kill H. pylori and just prevent it from ticking to the stomach wall. So, with babA, I definitely would include it but I also often include it just with H. pylori. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, if you address someone like round one and there’s still some H. pylori left or you didn’t move it a ton, are you gonna try a second round with different herbs and just kind of mixed them up? How do you address patients where you don’t quite get the result you want the first round? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, and this is when we’re using herbs, especially the herbs we traditionally use things like mastic gum, DGL, Licorice, they don’t have the major impact on the beneficial flora. So, it’s not like we’re going in there with some really super strong herbs a lot of times that will just knock out everything and so we can often use repeated rounds of some of those herbs safely without disrupting everything else. But I have had people were, especially skin conditions where until we get that H. pylori less than DL, their skin won’t clear up. So, for me, I looked to see now if they’re feeling great if we knocked it down and there’s a little bit again, it’s always a judgement call but I’ve seen people with acne, with eczema, where until it hits a less than DL, they have the symptoms, the second they hit less than DL they’re gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, are there any other herbs that you’ll pivot off the mastika or that you use synergistically with it or that you’ll rotate in if first round didn’t work that you’ll pivot on the second or third round with? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Uhm. Yeah. So, a lot of times other organisms can actually promote the colonization of H. pylori like yeast is a big one I look for because there’s, yep yeah, and there’s actually research that yeast and H. pylori have what researchers call an intimate relationship. So basically, if there’s yeast and H. pylori together in the mouth or the stomach, the H. pylori can go and hide inside of the yeast and kind of seek refuge inside of it and then later come out when the coast is clear. So, if I see a bunch of yeast on the next page, I may need to bring in some antifungals at the same time trying kill H. pylori or it’s just gonna hide out and just come out later. So, that can be something we miss, you know, H. pylori can produce biofilms and hide inside a yeast. Some bacteria can produce hydrogen and that hydrogen also can fuel the growth of H. pylori. So, that’s where sometimes I do look at. Okay, let’s bring in some Berberine, some Oregano, some Neem, some Pau D’Arco silver, something that’s gonna also address the bacteria or the yeast or some biofilm disruptors like NAC, and acetyl cysteine, can break down H. pylori biofilms. So, I’m thinking about all of those things because those could be what we’re running into a wall. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Makes a lot of sense. Very good. Any of the comments on the H. pylori and then also like what are the big virulence factors to look out for, like a top three?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, I mean, some of the nastier ones we’re thinking more like gastric ulcers, gastric cancers, cagA is one of those big nasty ones. Um, dupA, the dup is duodenal, so that one’s a little more duodenal ulcer. VacA, that again, is another one, where ulcers, cancer. So, I’d say, the three worst one, the cagA, dupA, the vacA. I mean, yes, babA is not a good thing but it’s more allowing it to stick to the stomach a little bit more, it’s gonna be a little bit invasive, a little more inflammatory. But, you know, those other three are just especially nasty. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. The cag, the dup, and the vac?

Lisa Pomeroy: yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Very cool. And now we go into the normal bacteria. These are commensal flora, normal flora in the gut but we can kind of gain a little bit of insight what’s happening in the gut based on these imbalances. I mean, out of the gates we have, you know, just out of the gates, we have Lactobacillus, which is a beneficial flora that’s low so we’re certain starting to see low levels of beneficial bacteria. Anything you want to say kind of from this section down?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. And again, we can tie this with other sections too like Lactobacillus actually lives in the stomach and it’s very antagonistic towards H. pylori. So, if I’m looking at this and going well, we have a nasty H. pylori and infection, we have low levels Lactobacillus, I’m gonna get, get a lactobacillus probiotic in here, to try to help not only get more Lactobacillus in the system because it’s clearly lacking but it’s gonna help push out some of that H. pylori from the stomach. Now, in general, I look at, you know, do we have highs, do we have lows, because even though these are good guys, too much of a good thing is a bad thing. So, I still don;t wanna see highs or lows. Now, lot of times, when things are low, it’s often something killed them. So, I look for a history, did you take antibiotics recently or things like artificial sweeteners, like you know, splenda, sucralose, it’s a chlorinated sugar, chlorine kills bugs including the good bugs, so we need to be looking at agian the diet. Are you doing something that’s killing these, do you eat GMO foods, food sprayed with glyphosate? Glyphosate is patented as an antibiotic, again it’s gonna kill your good bugs. So, are you doing something that’s killing them or are you starving them, you gotta feed your bugs, they like fiber, so if you’re restricting fiber in your diet, if you’re not eating lots of whole fruits and vegetables and beans and nuts and seeds and you know maybe some gluten-free grains. I mean all of these things have the fibers that these guys love. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and so a lot of fibers, a lot of fruits, a lot of vegetables. If someone were to go carnivore, would you see a lot of these commensal flora drop typically?

Lisa Pomeroy: You do, unfortunately. Yeah. Unfortunately, we have seen some reports for people who are doing carnivore and especially if there’s low stomach acid, especially if there’s H. pylori, you’ll see, a lot of the ones, the opportunistic ones on the following page go really sky high and you’ll see lots of low levels here because these guys like their fiber. Now we don’t test some of the bile loving bugs here but you know if you were testing those, we would expect to see some of the protein degrading, you know bile loving ones, those are the ones that are gonna go up but they’re also ones that produce things like hydrogen sulfide which can be very pro-inflammatory in excess. So, while it may relieve some symptoms, I’d rather look at why can’t you digest your foods and vegetables and carbs and that kind of stuff. You know, there’s probably an infection like H. pylori or some dysbiosis instead of restricting your diet so severely and starving your good bugs, let’s get rid of these bigger issues, get you digesting better so you can have those foods again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. And so, out of the gates there, any specific changes that you’re gonna see, you’re gonna make outside of those recommended diet or lifestyles? Things for like Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, Akkermansia, any specific changes there?

Lisa Pomeroy: Uhum, yeah. So, Faecalibacterium prausnitzii is the major butyrate producer, so butyrates are very anti-inflammatory in your gut but it also has an effect in the brain. Butyrate produced in your gut will cross your blood brain barrier and have an anti-inflammatory effect in your brain, stimulates BDNF – Brain derived neurotropic factor, can help with anxiety. So again, we’re not just looking a gut impact here, we may see this is low with skin conditions and anxiety and all these other issues. But this loves fiber, loves resistant starch, so I might suggest, you know, let’s eats some, you know, rice that’s been cooked and cooled or some potatoes or roots and tubers that have been cooked and cooled because if you cook these foods and then you cool them it creates resistant starch. So, like something, like potato salad would, you know, Faecalibacterium prausnitzii would really happy with some potato salad. But also your fibers, you know, fruits and veggies, roots and tubers, all of that stuff but it wants fiber. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. And what if some of those foods cause people to get more bloated or gassy like let’s say they have issues with nuts or have issues with legumes or lentils, would you suggest they continue to eat that even if they feel bad or listen to their body in that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. We always want to listen to the body, you know, some foods are just harder to digest than others so some people especially if your gut is very damaged and inflamed, maybe you can’t handle the beans, legumes, lentils right off the bat. So, we find different foods, you know, other fiber-rich foods that don’t cause that discomfort and sometimes it’s about portions too, so something like an apple. Maybe you can’t have a whole apple because it has a lot of fermentable carbs but you can have two apple slices or you can’t have a whole plate of asparagus but you can have two spears of asparagus and a stir fry. So, we’ll always look at those things but I also look at enzymes. You know, if you don’t have enzymes to break down these foods, you’re probably gonna feel too good with them. So, I’m always looking at elastase, one again later in the report if that’s low. I’m bringing in a pancreatic enzyme supplement because that not only helps with your gas and bloating and you know all those digestive symptoms but also helps of the dysbiosis because if you’re not digesting your food, your bugs will, so you’re giving them all you can eat buffet if you don’t digest your food. So, enzymes are really key and they’ve actually done some really cool studies finding that, that low elastase one is actually a more influential on your microbiome than your diet and all these other factors. You know, having poor digestion will highly influence what’s growing and not growing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Anything else you want to say about, um, the different families of bacteria so the conventional thinking is Bacteroides is very helpful very important to have in your tummy in good amounts, uh, Firmicutes the high levels of this one tends to so that you know the B for Bacteroides, B for beautiful, very beneficial. Firmicutes, one of these ones where high levels increase calorie extraction which potentially some correlation with weight gain in the literature. Any comments on these?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so again, it’s all about balance. So Firmicutes is actually where a lot of those butyrate producers are. They’re in this category. So, both, you know, we can’t say that either one is good, one is bad but good guys and bad guys in both categories so it’s just all about having that balance there. And yes Firmicutes, they can, you know, make you retain more calories from your food so you could gain weight, if they’re abundant but I’m looking at if your Firmicutes is getting too high it’s probably you’re eating too many carbohydrates or you’re not digesting them. So again, if I see this high and your enzymes are low, I’m getting those enzymes in there and we’ll often see this balance out. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then, you may want to address either fermentable, FODMAPs or even go lower carb as well?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, depending on it again, I look at symptoms, I mean I don’t want to starve the colonic bacteria, so I’m just, you know, a lot of times just finding which fibers are triggering symptoms, can we get some enzymes in there. There’re actually enzymes now that are specific for digesting high FODMAP foods and so I’ll bring in something like that where you know they’ll say, we’ll I love onions, but you know I just get such terrible gut pain afterwards. You take this enzyme, you can eat onions. So, your microbiome, loves onions, you know. Yes, they are highly fermentable they can cause more symptoms but if you get the proper enzymes in there, a lot times you’re fine and your gut microbiome will thrive on those foods. So, I’m very careful about what I take out, because you know, I don’t want to trigger symptoms but I also don’t want to starve bacteria.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Um, very good. And then what about increasing Bacteroidetes, is anything specific to help with that? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so maybe again, it’s something you know, if they’re low we think about, you know, fiber again the whole like more plant-focused foods but something too we know about Bacteroidetes, they don’t like excessive fermentation, so that’s where again, I look and connect the dots here. H. pylori showed up, H. pylori in most people causes low stomach acid. If your acids low, you’re probably excessively fermenting your food. Bacteroidetes don’t like the pH shift that occurs as a result of that, so they’re just not going to do well. You know a lot of these bugs what’s growing is going to be determined by pH and oxygen levels. So, chances are, you know, if you get some plenty of fiber in the diet get rid of that H. pylori that’s suppressing the acid causing excessive fermentation, these again could just balance out. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Excellent. And anything else? Let’s hit the dysbiotic bacteria section. So, these are quite frequently going to be found in general dysbiosis or SIBO right? Um, Bacillus is kind of this beneficial spore like probiotic that you get in megaspore or thrive or lot of these newer probiotics that are out. Why don’t you take it from there so with this one there’s a certain threshold that you like to see it stay below but if it’s a little bit high, is that okay? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, bacillus actually, a healthy gut should have some Bacillus in it so this is one we actually see a number next to that Bacillus species on every single report. So, an e4 e5 is actually pretty typical. With this one, I’m actually more concerned if I see a less than DL. To me, that’s more of a deficiency of this. So, you know, if it’s low, I mean, again we think about the diet and all those things we can supplement since we do have them available in probiotic form. Now, if it’s high there’s been a link between poor digestion and excessive levels. So, if it’s going high, I tend to think, okay what’s going on with stomach acid with enzymes with all of those things. So, that’s what I’m usually supporting if it’s getting high. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Excellent. Probiotic, enzymes if it’s getting high. Anything else with restriction of carbohydrate or FODMAPs at all?

Lisa Pomeroy:  With that one, I don’t usually do too so much. It’s more just uh focusing on if something’s causing low stomach acid like H. pylori. We need to deal with that bigger issue but it’s often more just poor digestion, digestive dysfunction.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool! Anything you want to say about the general dysbiotic bacteria below? We can start with the despotic section. I mean, is there any rhyme or reason of why one may proliferate in someone’s gut over another or is it just kind of the dumb luck of you know, too much sugar, too much carbs, antibiotic exposure, not cough beneficial flora to compete? How does like, why would one proliferate over another?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so there’s definitely certain conditions that will promote some over others. Like we see, Klebsiella there in that bottom section. It not only causes inflammation but it loves inflammation. If your gut becomes inflamed, it’s going to bloom. So, with this one if your gut is inflamed because you have a, you know, crappy diet because eating a bunch of food additives and proinflammatory foods. You’re lacking those good butyrate producers. You know, all of these things have changed in your gut to make it inflamed that’s gonna make your Klebsiella very happy and it’s gonna become overly abundant like this or things like, you know, certain things have been tied in the research with low stomach acid. So Streptococcus, you know, one of the top things, you’re going to see with low stomach acid again this individual is dealing with H. pylori. So, we’re probably going to see some high Streptococcus, which we do. Besides Streptococcus, Staphylococcus tends to show up with low stomach acid. Again, right above that there it is and Enterococcus. Now, Enterococcus here was more a moderate overgrowth but still it is showing up a little bit which it’s fitting with this pattern. The more things that you have showing up that fit that pattern the stronger it is. So, I’d say, the enterococcus, the Staph, the Strep, Klebsiella will see more with low stomach acid and even Pseudomonas. Pseudomonas thrives when there’s a lot of undigested protein around. So that’s another one where, this page to me looks like a classic consequence of having low stomach acid. So again, we have to think upstream what’s causing them, that correct that but we also may bring in some antimicrobial herbs because this has gotten to such a state where we may not be able to just get rid of these by dealing with those bigger upstream issues like H. pylori and low enzymes at this point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, the Enterococcus, Staph, Strep, and Klebsiella, when you see them elevated, there’s going to be more of a connection with low stomach acid and probably low enzymes too because those are connected as well right?

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! We often call this the digestive dysfunction pattern.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. How do artificial sweeteners impact this or even things like pesticides will they have a kind of negative impact like an antibiotic. How does that work? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, they can. That’s what they find a lot of the artificial sweeteners they find that they tend to kill things like Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium, and yet they promote a lot of times it’s this one other phylum which is called Proteobacteria, so Klebsiella is a member of Proteobacteria. Pseudomonas is a member of Proteobacteria. But they’re really virulent, more proinflammatory organisms that will tend to bloom again with more inflamed conditions higher oxygen and they also tend to go up when we have food additives and chemicals and pesticides and all of that. So, you see a lot of the research, it’s kind of like the, the bad dysbiosis pattern you’ll see is these high Proteobacteria, like again, high Klebsiella, high Pseudomonas, with low butyrate producers like for Firmicutes, low Clostridia, low Faecalibacterium prausnitzii. So too many proinflammatory bugs not enough anti-inflammatory bugs. 

 Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And so lower butyrate, uh, not enough anti-inflammatory bugs and that’s more with what Provatella, Proteus, Fusobacterium, was the big ones there?

Lisa Pomeroy: Those are gonna be your more proinflammatory ones again. Yeah. Anything in your potential odder will trigger susception. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: with low butyrate

Lisa Pomeroy: With low butyrate, yeah. Because that’s going to change the environment that will promote their growth. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so, when you are working on producing butyrate, can things just like butter which is butyric acid, can that have an influence? Are you trying to also add in potential resistant starch or probiotic fibers or adding just actual Butyrate in there? What are, what are your thoughts on each one of those and what do you do to try to impact butyrate?

Lisa Pomeroy:  Sure, yeah. I mean, butter or ghee it does have some butyric acid or butyrate. It’s just, it’s so small, it’d be hard to get therapeutic amounts plus a lot of people are dairy sensitive especially when their gut is damaged and leaky. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can be for sure

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, if I’m going to supplement or try to get more butyrate in, I look at, I mean, we could use a tributyrin supplement, you know that can be really great like if I see, if all the butyrate producers are low and their calprotectin is high which is telling me their gut is inflamed and they have a lot of GI discomfort and they also have a lot of food sensitivities. Getting that butyrate in there directly can often calm things down or diarrhea. Butyrate can be terrific for diarrhea. We’ve seen chronic diarrhea that’s been going on for years or decades. Stop within a week of giving some tributyrin. So, sometimes I do give butyrate directly or IBD I’ll often use some butyrate directly because the gut is so inflamed that can be really helpful. But a lot of times, you know, people don’t necessarily want another supplement. You know if I’m not seeing those major signs where I definitely want to add it in, I may just be let’s feed the butyrate producers. Yes, we can give the end product but you’re still not feeding them, you know, I always think of like the butyrate is more like giving you healthy soil that’s going to promote their growth but you still got to feed them. They’re not gonna grow if you don’t feed them. So, you got to get the fiber in there, so I look at, you know, you can feed them with the fiber, you could get the butyrate in there and maybe you want to do both. They find that actually giving the butyrate and the fiber which is promoting the environment and giving the fertilizer to feed them, you get an even stronger impact. So many different options what we may do, any combination of those.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, if it’s only those bacteria are in the lower sides. If they’re higher, would you also still want to do that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Depends what we’re seeing, I mean, again, if the gut is highly inflamed, I may bring it in or there’s terrible diarrhea, I may do it more for symptomatic relief. But, you know, if those bacteria are in good shape, you know, we don’t necessarily need to do that to encourage them to grow by shaping the environment but there’s still other reasons, we might use butyrate. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is it more of a concern when they’re higher or lower?

Lisa Pomeroy:  It’s low that it’s more there’s usually a deficit of the short chain fatty acid butyrate if they’re low because if there’s low population, they’re not making enough butyrate 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s less than DL you’re looking at, right less than DL

Lisa Pomeroy: Yes, these aren’t the butyrate, those are on the previous page, um.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re talking about the commensal stuff here.

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep. Yeah. So, the three markers that represent them are the Firmicutes phyla, at the very bottom. Yup, the Clostridium class and then Faecalibacterium prausnitzii. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it. These are the big three, Clostridium, Faecalibacterium and Firmicutes, these are the big butyrate producers. 

Lisa Pomeroy: So, there’s low, if they’re low you just could try feeding them or if the guts really inflamed again, they don’t like an inflamed environment so you may bring the butyrate in to try to take down some of the inflammation and then give them the fiber and now they’re really gonna grow. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Okay. Very cool. Anything else you want to say about the like Citrobacter or these despotic bacteria individually, I mean, a lot of these are gonna be commonly found in SIBO right, but because it’s a stool test and all of it, it’s moving through the intestines, we wouldn’t necessarily say this SIBO unless we had like a breath test but we could say that’s a kind of a generalized dysbiosis.

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. And some of these bacteria we look at like Klebsiella, Pseudomonas, they just live in the small intestine that’s just their area that they hang out but it’s not necessarily SIBO, you know, yes, they’re in the small intestine but SIBO is when there’s too many overall bacteria in the small intestine, sometimes you just have a dysbiosis. You know, it may just there’s not, overall, it’s just Klebsiella and Pseudomnas are too high. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so, you’re gonna utilize like a breath test, a lactulose, where you’re looking at hydrogen and methane gases and see if they’re really elevated to really know that. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. If you wanted to see more of that SIBO picture, is there too many bacteria in the small intestine because maybe you had food poisoning incident before and your migrating motor complex that kind of that street sweeper isn’t working well to push the bacteria out. But if I’m looking at these, yes, these are in the small intestine, they’re overgrowing you know, maybe there’s other things overgrowing in the small intestine with them but you know to me it’s something, I’m looking at, you know, low stomach acid, low enzymes, is a huge factor with bacteria in the small intestine. So many cases, we can work on digestion, H. pylori, get some antimicrobials in there and often takes care of those whether even though, they’re in the small intestine versus a colon.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. Anything else you wanna say about these individual dysbiotic critters?

 Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. Well, Klebsiella, since this one shows up, these are, you know, besides being very proinflammatory, they are putting, you know, putting you at increased risk of perhaps developing autoimmune condition. So, like Klebsiella is something that’s been linked with rheumatoid arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis, IBD. So, if you had that perfect storm, if you have the bacteria which is your trigger, you have a leaky gut and you have the genetics that make you predisposed to getting say rheumatoid arthritis. It could lead to that down growth. So that’s we’re seeing signs, you know, maybe you don’t have rheumatoid arthritis now, but 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now, if you don’t do anything about Klebsiella, it could turn into that. So that’s where again we look from a functional medicine perspective, you know, we wanna try to head off a lot of these symptoms too and that’s where we can get a glimpse into that now, with the stool testing to try to get rid of this. Now, so it doesn’t become a future problem. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Anything else you wanna say on these down below the Proteus or the Fusobacterium?

Lisa Pomeroy: Uhm. Yeah. Now, some of these actually live in the mouth, so Klebsiella lives in the mouth, Provatella lives in the mouth, Fusobacterium lives in the mouth. So, we can’t forget other microbiomes too. So, they’re part of the oral microbiome. And there’s actually a lot of overlap. I think it’s like 45% of the microbes are similar between the two. So, we always have to look at oral health, dental health, if someone has issues in their mouth maybe they need to get their teeth cleaned, get an infection dealt with. Because if you’re swallowing these bacteria every day in your saliva. Now, if you have low stomach acid, you don’t kill them very well as they pass through the stomach so you could get too many in your intestinal tract because there’s low stomach acid but you could also too many in your intestinal tract because there’s too many in your mouth. So, we have to be always looking at the health of the mouth too and what’s coming above the GI tract. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m a big fan of flexing either with colloidal silver or hydrogen peroxide and if you’re sensitive you can always dilute at 3%, that’s very helpful at knocking down some of those bugs, do you agree? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. A lot of people like water picks and they’ll do different things and mix and sometimes they’ll alternate too and yep and even the nasal, I mean you have to figure, you know, what’s you know, is being swallowed there from the nasal passages. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Post nasal drip stuff

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep, we’ll squirt some silver or something up to the nose too to try to kill something that’s in there, that’s being swallowed and getting down in the gut.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Let’s dive into yeast. I typically don’t see a lot of yeast come back on these labs. When I do it’s usually beneath the reference range sometimes it’s positive but a lot of times I tell patients, if I see it here and it’s not DL then it’s probably a concern. I mean on the organic acid testing which we can talk about at a later point we’ll see things like D-arabinitol or D-arabinose, which is a really good yeast, uh, marker which does, I do find that tends to come up a little bit more frequently than, uh, this test. What’s your take here?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, yeast again, we have to keep in mind, it can grow lots of places. You know, it can grow in the mouth, in the stomach, in the small intestine, in the large intestine

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Skin, Fingernails

Lisa Pomeroy: The skin, yeah. So, I mean of course, anything outside of the GI tract is not gonna show up in the stool. If you have a toenail and fun-fungal infection a scalp fungal infection. It’s not gonna come out in your poop unless it’s also in your gut. So, we always have to keep in mind people say oh I have a yeast problem at my toenail, why didn’t it show up. It’s like probably localized to your toenail. Now, of course, again, we have the dilution factor. If you have thrush, if it’s more in your mouth and not so much in your colon, we may not see a hug amount in the stool or even in the stomach because it’s gonna be diluted out as it travels, so this is really good at looking at like especially the lower bowel because it’s right there ready to exit. The higher up in the GI tract you get, the more dilution is going to play a role into it. Where sometimes maybe you will see it more in organic acids in a urine test than in the stool. If it is a little more upper GI. although, I mean we do pick up DNA that’s coming down from the mouth, the stomach as H. pylori shows up small intestine. But this is something where if it’s detected at all to me that’s a problem because yeast overgrowth tends to cause a lot of symptoms especially hits the gut and the brain. So, a lot of people will say yeah, I have the gas the bloating, you know, the constipation, the diarrhea but it’s also the brain fog, the memory loss, I can’t remember where I put my keys, it’s no cognac, I just, my brain doesn’t work like it used to. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The acetaldehyde produced from Candida right?

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly. Candida produces so many toxins, a lot of those affect the brain or they have the, the sugar cravings so it’s like, I want to get healthy and I want to stop eating all these carbs and candy bars and everything but I just can’t, you know, It’s the Candida calling out for. So, you gotta knock out the Candida. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: On the extreme side, you could have auto brewery system, um, syndrome, when you’re actually creating your own fermentation with it. The story of this is true, a gentleman got pulled over and he was tested being drunk on the breathalyzer but it was actually yeast in his gut that like made their own little brewery in there and created alcohol from that metabolism that got him drunk and a lot of cognitive people that feel drunk, feel brain fog, it could be from that yeast and all that fermentation happening 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, and other organisms can do that too, Klebsiella, another one that could do that too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ah, interesting. Good, very cool. And then, does it matter, I mean obviously Candida tends to be the bigger yeast most people know about that and you have some subspecies here. Any difference is it, does it matter, are you treating them the same way? Do they differentiate in symptoms at all?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. It’s hard to say in symptoms I mean a lot of the yeast behave the same, a lot of times we’re doing similar protocols anti-fungal, you know, fatty acids like caprylic acid, undecylenic acid, herbs like Pau D’Arco, berberine, oregano, so we’re typically addressing them the same. Now, these are all can be normal inhabitants of the gut like Candida, it’s, you should have Candida in your gut. You know, it has a purpose, the whole thing is it’s all about balance. You get too much of it creates all these toxins and excess you can get symptoms. So same thing with these and some of them are actually in your environment like Rhodotorula is something that we sometimes see a little bit of that showing up and certain areas of the country seem to have it more just in the environment. It’s kind like a pink colored fungi. So, I tell people like do you have like a pink colored ring around your toilet or your tub something like that in your bathroom, it could be Rhodotorula. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Anything else in this?

Lisa Pomeroy: That’s the main thing with the yeast there. Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about the viruses?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, the main reason, the viruses are on the panel is when these viruses are reactivated in the colon, they’ve been linked with IBD. So, we’re looking for that association there with you know colonic viral reactivation.  Now of course we know that these viruses can live in many organs and tissues like Epstein-barr virus and the thyroid gland. So, it doesn’t mean if these don’t show up that you don’t have the virus somewhere else in your thyroid, liver but this is looking more of the IBD colonic link. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool and we have different parasites as well, we kind of already chatted about Blasto earlier, but can you give us kind of the reader’s digest from on the critters here, on the bugs. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so again, all of these can cause symptoms in some cases very severe now these the ones I’d say tend to cause the worst symptoms, would be the Blastocystis hominis and Dientamoeba fragilis. Especially in kids, we can see, you know, kids with just terrible tummy aches and pain and issues maybe failure to thrive they’re just a little underweight for their age and you know, just a lot of behavioral issues. We see Dientamoeba fragilis come out a lot. Both the Blasto and D. fragilis have been linked with IBS and studies. So, we do often see some quite significant symptoms with them. Uh, now some of the oddball things, extra intestinal you may see, you know, with like joint pain, I think, Blasto and Endolimax nana is another one. I’ve had a lot of people where it’s like I think I have Lyme disease and so we’ve run a lot of good because Lyme disease, you need a good test because it’s hard to find. But if you do a good Lyme disease test, you know, when it comes up negative, you know, we’ve had people do that and it’s like, we’ll it’s negative what do I have, I mean, this joint pain is awful and it’s Endolimax nana, so it has affinity for collagen related tissues, so you can see some pretty nasty joint muscle tendon, ligament issues with that one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is more collagen based huh?

Lisa Pomeroy: That’s the Endolimax nana.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, yeah so that’s what I look for with that one well I’ll, you know, if I see it show up and they’ll say well I have no gut symptoms. It’s like, well when you work out at the gym, do you see an injury prone where it’s like oh I was lifting weights and now I twisted my shoulder and oh, now it’s trying to run and now my ankle hurts and you know or they just go I’m you know 29 and I work out, I go for a run and I’m so sore and stiff in the morning. I don’t think I should feel like this for 29 years old. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Anything else on these Pentatrichomonas at all? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, I mean again, some of these just vague, just general gut related symptoms. You know, any of these really could cause gas bloating, abdominal pain, discomfort, constipation or diarrhea. So you know, just general like IBS type symptoms. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool.  Anything about the worms? I don’t see the worms come back as much. I really don’t. Do you?

Lisa Pomeroy: Well, we don’t see a lot of worms, you know, fortunately because they are a little trickier, you know, we often do recommend deworming medications because it is very difficult to kill them with natural means. But yeah, worms can be quite nasty, um, you know, some of these are, you know, small intestine too, and things like the you know, Ascaris is a roundworm, you know, it doesn’t, you know, some of these worms like the, the hookworms and things, they actually attach to the bowel wall, so they kind of stay in place, I mean, they could, you know, suck your blood and stuff, you know, get the nutrients from the blood. But Ascaris is kind of free-floating there and the problems is because it’s free-floating, it’s not attached, it sometimes gets into places where we really don’t want it and so they found it migrating into things like your gallbladder and you know, your lungs and other places so that one, I mean the big issue with these worms are they can create blockages in some cases with those big worms, you know, sometimes, there can be blood loss, nutritional deficiencies too because if they’re you know sucking your blood and damaging your gut, you could have impaired nutritional absorption. Now, in the U.S., we typically, don’t see these massive infections where there’s like a big ball of worms but you could have a couple worms and they could be causing a lot of issues. Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Very good. And then anything else with the, I think, the Trichuris, that’s the whipworm, right? Um, Nicator, is that a hook I think, not sure hook or whip but either way. Different, different, other different worms there, which we’re gonna treat either with, you know, typical medication like Mebendazole, Albendazole, Vermox, or higher dose wormwood or Artemisinin, also tends to be very helpful with some of these too. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. And again, some of these, they all have different ways you can get infected, like some of them it could be walking barefoot on a sandy beach, you know, others it could be. Yeah. some of those worms

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Trichuris

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. And in others you could be, you know, you’re exposed to it through like there’s pork tapeworms and you know beef tapeworms and stuff so again it’s looking at food quality and making sure that it’s cooked thoroughly. You don’t want to go to a restaurant and get the rare hamburger or be eating, you know, a rare

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make sure, its good restaurant, make sure the quality is good. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make sure it’s like Wagyu from like a five-star restaurant at least. Yeah, for sure. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. And then down below, we have a couple of markers here out of the gates. The steatocrit right, which is the marker for maldigested fat, so if we see a lot of fat in the stool we’re thinking of potentially either gallbladder flow issues, maybe stones that are affecting the flow maybe we don’t have enough acids because acid is really important for the gallbladder to trigger and contract make CCK, elastase and another marker for the pancreas and enzyme production and again if you have low enzymes, um, HCl or acids is an important stimulator for making and activating enzymes. Any comments on those?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So exactly.  Yeah. so steatocrit has to do with fat malabsorption. Now ideally, I’d like to see a less than DL here. So, I really don’t want to see malabsorbed fat showing up in the stool. Like this one. Isn’t terrible at six so six percent of the stool was some undigested fat but it’s still it’s not ideal, I’m looking for signs why might that be, is there a bile issue, is there a lipase issue. Those are the major things that are digesting your fat, your bile from them you know, produced by the liver, secreted by the gallbladder or lipase is a pancreatic enzyme so for me then you know, if I see this, I look at the elastase one to go, okey what’s the lipase looking like. Elastase, one healthy control usually above 500. So, this individual, I’d say okay, Lipase is probably a little low because were only 388, so chances are if we get a good pancreatic enzyme in here with a nice amount of lipase, will clear up this fat malabsorption too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. And then any feedback on the Beta glucuronidase, well that’s a, I mean, we’ll just like talk about it out of the, out of the bat. This one has a major effect from dysbiotic bacteria producing it right and so but it also can affect hormone metabolism so you have these bad bugs maybe it’s Klebsiella or gram-negative bacteria like Proteus or Citrobacter. It’s gonna make this enzyme that is going to take conjugated estrogen and it’s gonna deconjugate it and allow the estrogen to go back into the circulation. Comments there?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. We look at sources. Now, bacteria is the number one thing I look for. Do we have those species over growing that produce it so then I go flip back to page two and three and go, do we have E. coli, do we have high Bacteroidetes or Bacteroides fragilis, uh, do we have 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you may look here, so you may look at Bacteroides, you may look at E. coli or what else? Anything else? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Uh, the Bacteroides fragilis, Bacteroides fragilis at the top there. Um, Clostridium class and Firmicutes phylum some species, I mean those are large groups but there’s some in there, if those are high it may also be coming from there. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, this person doesn’t have a lot of those either and they still have it. 

Lisa Pomeroy: They don’t, yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Again, it’s a sample but

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep. Now the next page do they have Staphylococcus. Uh, they do and really high, yeah, we have Staphylococcus species. Staphylococcus can also produce it. So, this person, I’d be going, okay maybe the Staphylococcus is the where it’s coming from so if we get the staff down, we could bring this down. Yeah, the problem is especially we look at you know say this is a you know a menstruating female. You know, she’s producing a lot of estrogen and she can’t get rid of that estrogen so they say beta glucuronidase kind of comes around like a pair of scissors so say you know your toxin your estrogen goes to the liver goes through glucuronidation which is a detox pathway and the body kind of packages it up nice and neat for elimination so it puts the estrogen in a box puts the lid on the box ties and nice little bow around the box. Well, your beta glucuronidase comes around like a pair of scissors snips of ribbon, lifts the lid, let’s the estrogen out so now estrogen gets to get reabsorbed recirculate and now you get estrogen dominance so now you have PMS and menstrual cramps and breast tenderness and all of those types of symptoms. So, yep. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. And then occult blood, we could see this potentially from blood in the stool, ulcerations, could be ulcerations in the stomach working its way down a lot of times I find It could be from hemorrhoids. It’s a common one too. The outer veins and the rectum area. They’re just, they’re dripping a little bit or the women out there on their menses too that could potentially drive that you’d be back there 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly, yeah so ideally, I like to see under five that would be considered negative. 5-9 that’s where we often think oh, did you collect during your period, are you constipated, do you have hemorrhoids, no, that’s a typical range, anal fissures, maybe a constipated there’s a little tear or something. Above a 10 that’s our red flag because above a 10 we have to consider that you know this could be IBD, colorectal cancer, polyps and we just don’t want to miss any kind of pathology here. So, this is where we look to see is there something that makes sense or a diagnosis that makes sense say I see an occult blood of 35 well the person has ulcerative colitis. Okay now, we know why there may be blood it makes sense. But if it’s a 35 and there’s no known reason for this to be then we may need to repeat it, you know some of the acute pathogens again. If we go back to page one that E. coli, you know, uh, the 0157. That one can cause bloody stool. So, say that they got this nasty E. coli from a hamburger. Yep. And the, the EHEC, the enterohemorrhagic E. coli. Yeah. So, they could cause bloody stool so maybe, if there was a little bit of blood it was from an E. coli or something just passing through. So, if it’s above a 10 we often start by just repeating the occult blood to see was it some fluky thing where it was an acute pathogen or something but if you get two positive occult bloods it’s often referring out to see, you maybe need a colonoscopy because again we just don’t want to miss, we’ve caught early-stage colon cancer by catching some of these, you know, occult blood levels that are creeping up. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: uhum, absolutely. And then we have IgA which is gonna be an immune marker that’s you, your kind of your mucosal membrane that kind of hits all the mucuses, so mouth, intestinal tract, vaginal canal, urinary canal, so if we see something high, that could be some kind of an immune stress. Your immune system is fighting and going after, if it’s low it could be just chronic stress that’s depleted that immune system that made you more vulnerable. Any thoughts on that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, exactly. I mean for me, low is a much bigger problem than high. High means the immune system’s working. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Working, yeah. It’s good. 

Lisa Pomeroy: yeah. It’s attacking some microbe or some food but I mean that’s what it’s supposed to do, if something’s threatening it, it should go up, it should try to resolve it. Low means that it’s just it’s burnt out from wear and tear that constant assault and it just can’t mount a response and when it’s low you’re going to be more vulnerable to the E. coli and the Yersinias and the H. Pylori and the parasites because this is our first line defense, you know, we got to have this nice and robust. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely and then gluten antibodies, how often do you see this positive and I find it’s gonna drop if someone’s on a healthy diet they could still be gluten sensitive but it will go down so it may not be the best indication of hey, you’re gluten sensitive, um, and you may get a false security because you kept your guten out and then you’re thinking, you’re okay and you can add it back in but it’s gonna be kind of exposure based, right?

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly, yep. In order for the body to produce antibodies to something, it has to have that current exposure. Now, gluten antibodies can last three to six months in the system from a single exposure, so if they’ve had gluten in the last three to six months it could still be elevated from that but if someone if say they come in and they say I’ve been gluten free for five years, I shouldn’t be seeing elevated antibodies. If I am, there is a problem, it’s sneaking in somehow and we do often see this. I saw, I think two people earlier today who were diagnosed celiacs and it was high. That’s not good. That means that they’re still having that exposure so we’ve got to figure out where it’s coming from that is not a good thing and they’re telling you, really have to

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and what do you do when people are like, no I really haven’t been getting exposed. I tend to say well, is there cross contamination, is it potentially going high because maybe there’s an egg allergy or they’re eating some rice that’s technically gluten-free but could still react or is it still dairy thing what other foods could trigger that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so first I look for actual gluten cross contamination because most cases it’s actually gluten, they didn’t realize that the oats, oats will be contaminated with gluten unless they’re certified gluten-free so it could be they’re eating their regular old quaker oats, you know, they’re gonna have gluten, so we gonna look for those or they’re sprouted bread. Yeah, it’s Ezekiel bread. It may have less gluten but still has gluten so we gotta look for that or oh my boyfriend eats gluten and I kiss him right after I, you know, after he eats the hamburger. That’s gonna be a step. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s possible.  

Lisa Pomeroy: Or they kissed their dog, they feed their dog, regular gluten kibble and they kiss their dog. So, I looked at all of those, um, and they found that you know, eating out in restaurants. They did this great study a couple years back and they said about a third of all restaurant meals that you’re being told are gluten-free tested positive when they’re actually tested and that went up to 50% for gluten-free pizza and gluten-free pasta. So basically, if you go out to a restaurant, you order the gluten-free pizza or pasta, it’s a 50 50 shot whether you’re actually getting gluten or not. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It tends to be, usually if you’re going out, if you’re getting like a steak or some steamed vegetables, usually you’re okay tends to be more in the sauces, the thickeners or even a spice and so worst case you just, you season it yourself with your own sea salt at the table or something just to make sure it’s its clean. 

Lisa Pomeroy: And some things too, I mean I actually you know because I am gluten sensitive, you know, gluten triggers Hashimoto’s for me. So, I went gluten-free like 14 years ago and my antibodies dropped and never come back because I’ve stayed gluten free. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.

Lisa Pomeroy: But I do test. I have this little testing device and you could put a pea sized portion of the food in the device, it takes about three minutes and it’ll tell you if it had gluten or not. So, I will test if I buy some new food, especially if it says manufactured in the same warehouse with wheat, dairy and all that kind of stuff or if I don’t know say if I want to eat, I can put the food in the device and know if its gluten-free or not. So 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow, so what’s this device called?

Lisa Pomeroy: It’s called Nima. It’s N-I-M-A. So, it’s a Nima, Nima Partners Company, you can buy it through. It’s cool little device, you have to buy these capsules that are one-time use but you put the food in the device, so anytime I buy anything new any packaged food, even supplements, I run it through my Nima. Because, I was being glutened by a cinnamon powder like I run one of these tests on myself and my anti-gliadin was a little high and I thought was a test wrong that this is impossible I’ve, I’ve been gluten free for over a decade this got to be wrong so I bought a Nima then this a few years back and tested everything I was eating and an organic cinnamon powder the company grinds fresh in their facility tested positive and I was eating this almost every day. I stopped eating it, seven months later retested, antibodies gone. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow, okay. We’ll put a link up on screen put it on the show notes that’s uh, that’s crazy, very cool. 

Lisa Pomeroy: If I’ve ruled out that, that’s the first thing I look for because the majority of people, it is just gluten contamination. Now if we’ve ruled that out then I looked at okay there’s about six foods that are cross-reacted with gluten, there’s dairy, there’s yeast, there’s corn, there’s millet. So, then we start to look at 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: other things

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep. Other things that you know if you’re continuing to eat dairy then maybe there’s an issue there. Yeah, it’s, they recently changed the website, I think it’s Nimapartners.com

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay cool. I’ll put it below in the show notes. Anyone’s listening back and you’ll get that. That’s great. 

Lisa Pomeroy: So sometimes we have to remove cross-reactive foods so there can be other factors but you know, the problem is once you’ve lost oral tolerance to gluten, you can’t get it back. It’s the only food we know of that your body creates memory B cells to so, it is something like for me being gluten-free for like 14 years I shouldn’t have antibodies but if I start eating gluten again, I will have antibodies because I’ve lost oral tolerance. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s why I like the genetic test because you don’t have to necessarily challenge it or know you, if you have the HLA DQ2 or eight or you know one alpha, one beta, one or three then it’s a good chance that you have that those gluten sensitivities and you should probably stay away from it. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Um, yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any feedback on the genetic testing for the gluten. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, I think it’s helpful, I like all these tests, I mean they always give you a little different piece of information so I think it’s helpful, you know a lot of times correlating the genetics with what we’re seeing here. So, I mean the genetics don’t tell you, you are having a problem versus this tells you are having a current problem. So, I like both and sometimes people need the information from both because just seeing the genetics, you know, they go, well I could have a problem but is that enough you know, a motivational factor to keep me from eating gluten versus I see this and it’s high then I know, okay, my body is really not happy right now because of the gluten I’m eating. I definitely need to go gluten-free. So, it depends what motivates someone and again if they haven’t eating gluten for a while, I don’t want them challenging it, you know, they could certainly again run this as is like myself eating the cinnamon, I though, I was gluten free but I was being glutened so it showed up. So, I tell people run the test as is look at your genetics and I’d rather you do that than reintroducing gluten and now starting that inflammatory cascade that’s going to last for three to six months. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Well let’s just wrap this up, your last couple of markers and by the way, I know we chatted about, uh, probably a little bit ambitious wanting to go into the, uh, the ion panel but I’d love to have you back soon, Lisa and really dive into the ion panel. Would you be open to that?

Lisa Pomeroy: I would, I love talking lab test interpretation. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool, so out of the gate here, calprotectin, really good tests for inflammation produced by the white blood cells in the intestinal tract, it’s a protein and of course, Zonulin is that protein, that’s a sign that those tight junctions are being unzipped in the intestinal tract and potential gut permeability. Comments on that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, calprotectin is a kind of a general marker for intestinal inflammation. Now with IBD, we can see this exceptionally high. Usually, yeah, the two things that are going to cause your highest levels are acute pathogens so again something like that nasty food poisoning E. coli or something like your IBD type thing. You could see upper hundreds or even thousands with that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah 

Lisa Pomeroy: Ideally, I wanna see under 50. So, a lot of people will see things like an 87 or a 120 where I go that’s higher than I’d like, so again, we start looking at, okay, what’s causing this colonic inflammation, again, are you lacking butyrate producers, do you have too many of these proinflammatory bugs, do you have a parasite like Blasto hanging out in your colon. So, we’re looking at all those other factors that could be causing inflammation. Or again, some of the food additives, you know, maybe you like to go your grocery store and get rotisserie chicken. A lot of rotisserie chickens have Carrageenan in them. Carrageenan is a known proinflammatory food additive. So, there’s little things we can sometimes do to bring down our gut inflammation but yeah, so that one’s gonna tell you about if your gut is inflamed or not, Zonulin tells you if your gut is leaky. Now Zonulin will, you know, go up, you know, it’s triggered by things like gluten and gram-negative bacteria. They have an endotoxin, LPS in them. So, gluten and LPS are the top two triggers for Zonulin, so again I’m looking for is antigliadin high, do you have a lot of these bacteria that are overgrowing or again do you eat GMO foods like glyphosate is another trigger for Zonulin. So, if this is high, we need to look for, what’s triggering it and then we’re probably gonna need to do some gut repair, you know, maybe we want an L-glutamine based powder, you know, because we want to make sure that the gut damage is being healed up the tight junctions are restored, the integrity of the gut barrier is restored. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. And then Lisa, you’ve given us so much information here. This is excellent. I’m going to recommend this to my patients here to get a kind of a little bit more of a deeper dive, if they want more intel. This is excellent. Um, if people wanna find out more about you, where’s the best place to go? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, I have a couple different websites, I work with practitioners and right now I’m, you know my practice is closed to taking in new clients but, you know, may open up in the future, so my more client website is my last name Pomeroy, so pomeroynaturalhealth.com. Now, if there are practitioners who want more, you know, help on lab interpretation for their patients or if they’re interested in the different training courses I created, that website for practitioners is pomeroyinstitute.com

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: pomeroynaturalhealth.com for patients. pomeroyinstitute.com for practitioners. We’ll put the links below here, so people can get to that faster. Anything else you want to leave listeners today with, Lisa?

Lisa Pomeroy: Um, I guess, just you know, they say all health begins in the gut and I’m a believer of that because I had so many issues, I mean, you almost name a pathogen on this report I’ve had it. Everything from roundworms to just about every Protozoa to H. pylori. You know, I’ve had it all and I know how much, you know, it just wreaked havoc on my gut for decades so starting very young. You know, my parents would always think she’s coming down with a stomach flu because she just puked out of the blue. You know, it was just the H. pylori and everything else, my low enzymes. So, I had just terrible terrible gut and so I mean for me was the functional lab testing that found these issues. I mean, that found the H. pylori, the parasites, the low enzymes, everything else and I just think you know for me it’s just so important on why I get so passionate about this. For me, it was giving me the answers that I needed to restore my health. So 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well, you have a great story at least, you did an excellent job for sending me information and I think uh, people that are watching are getting a lot of information out of it. So really appreciate it, look forward to have you back on the show real soon.  


References:

https://pomeroyinstitute.com/

https://pomeroynaturalhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/why-is-my-digestion-broken-lab-test-interpretation-of-gi-map-with-lisa-pomeroy-podcast-335

Recommended products:

DSL GI-MAP Genetic Stool Test

International DSL GI MAP Genetic Stool Test

Glyphosate and Chemical Detox | Podcast #334

Most people don’t realize that glyphosate is not just found in farm fields and on GMO crops but is lurking in your next-door neighbor’s garage and your neighborhood park, on the local golf course, or in your kid’s playground. You can find glyphosate on nearly 100 non-GMO food crops, including vegetables, fruit, nuts, seeds, and cereals like wheat and oats. You can find it in wine, beer, ice cream, and pretty much everything else. Also, you wouldn’t imagine in a whole host of ingredients, such as corn starch, beet and cane sugar, and even honey!

Glyphosate interrupts the body’s ability to turn natural sulfites from food into sulfates that the body needs to detox and stay healthy. High sulfate levels heal the gut while supporting the absorption of many vital nutrients. Sulfates assist in clear brain fog and improve memory through increased blood flow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this podcast, we cover:

1:27  Glyphosate (what it is, how it works)

8:42  Clean Water, Osmosis Water Filter

17:12 Powerful Antioxidants

23:23 Water Plunge, Saunas

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan, Evan, how we doing today, my friend? Really excited to chat with you. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. Likewise, and this is a big topic. So Huh, you got hundreds of millions of pounds of glyphosate being sprayed on our beautiful Mother Earth every year. It’s terrible, how much is being sprayed. If you look at the stats, they just go up and up and up and up and up. And we have GMO corn and soybean accounting for the major places that people are being sprayed. So if you’re simply just cutting out, yep, those foods from your diet, and you’re eating animals that don’t feed on the soybean and corn, you’ve already done a great job. But but that’s not enough, because I recently spoke with Stephanie senath, who’s been educating and researching about glyphosate. And she’s talked about which you and I’ve known for a long time, but it’s good to hear somebody else validate the research is, it’s in the water supply, it’s in the food, it’s in the air, it’s everywhere. So you really have to put in a detox protocol on going to be able to deal with this because even parts per billion levels of glyphosate act as an antibiotic and will kill beneficial bacteria in the gut. And you and I, we don’t necessarily call ourselves gi specialist, but we are when it comes to naturally approaching gut infections and restoring gut integrity and gut health. And part of that is getting the glyphosate out of the system. So we can truly allow our beneficial bacteria to thrive. So that’s kind of the setting the stage of where we’re where we’re going today. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So glyphosate is essentially roundup. Right? It’s essentially Roundup, it’s a pesticide. And so essentially how it works, it’s a mineral key later. So what it does is it basically thrips away or, or kind of as a magnet of all the key lay of all the minerals away from the plant. And so essentially by robbing the plan of all those minerals that essentially kills it is that the major mechanism and how that works. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, it inhibits the photosynthesis, I don’t know the full chemistry behind it. But yeah, basically it starves the plant to death, and then the the byproduct, the byproduct or the the process of doing that, you’re robbing and basically cleaving off these amino acids. And that’s the problem. And that’s why it’s going to end up in joints and everywhere else in the body. Because the body’s trying to basically absorb the minerals, if you will, but by accident, it’s absorbing the glyphosate. So it’s number one thing is you got to go organic to get away from it. But the problem is, if you’re not filtering your water, if you’re not filtering your air, you’re probably still getting exposure there. Or if you eat out at restaurants, which even I and you and I, we try to do the best we can if we eat out, but we may get exposed to trace amounts there. And kids too. I mean, you send the kid with a school lunch, that’s organic, but if you don’t, they’re probably getting exposed to it there. And this stuff accumulates over time. And as Stephanie was talking about with me, the individual parts meaning like a little bit of glyphosate here, it’s a problem. But when you mix it with the dicamba and the 24D and all these other chemicals and the xylene and the gasoline additive chemicals and the plastics and the Falaise in the BPA and the other endocrine disruptors, that’s when you really get into trouble. So it’s important to hyper focus on one chemical like this, but I want people to just know, it’s the sum that really creates the problem. And you and I measure for this on the urine. So if people listening like, Well, what do I do? How do I investigate this problem, you simply do a urine urine sample. And we can measure this. And the fun part is when we get people on a detox protocol, and we retest, you can see the levels go down. And a lot of cases, we get the levels to nd non detected non detectable limits, that is the most exciting part. So I want to inspire hope with this too some of the stats are really depressing on it. But there is hope that you can get this stuff out of your body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And so the mechanism how it works is it’s a key later pulls that away, and also affects the protein synthesis of the plants. There’s a pathway there, it’s called the shikimic. It’s kind of a funny name, the shikimic pathway that affects you know, essentially the the protein synthesis of these plants. So it disrupts that it does it by disrupting protein synthesis. And it does it by collating away a lot of these important minerals. And I think that’s part of the reason why a lot of foods that are grown in Roundup, or glyphosate is used on them, I think you’re gonna also see a decrease in nutrient levels. Part of the means why is because it’s creating a lot of those minerals away from the plants. And the plants don’t have adequate minerals in the soil. And others there’s data on it like when there’s less manganese in the soil, the vitamin C production in that plant is less for instance. So we do know there’s a disruption, there’s a correlation with low minerals in the soil can have a major impact on the nutrient production by that plan as well. And so there’s a nutrient issue on one side, and then there’s also a toxicity issue. And we can go deeper into that. Any questions on that? 

Evan Brand: So the the big, the big problem with people is, here’s one of the mechanisms and people can check out the podcast. I mean, we don’t have to get into the the advanced chemistry. I mean, some of the stuff even goes over my head. But basically, one of the big problems is glyphosate is pretending to be glycine. And that’s what she talked about. Basically, it’s your body-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: it’s just an amino acid. 

Evan Brand: Right? So it’s looking for glycine, but then it sucks up glyphosate in place of it, right? That’s where you get into trouble.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you kind of similar to what may happen in your body with iodine, and fluoride, for instance, or bromine, right, it’ll it’ll suck up your thyroid will suck up a lot of those nutrients which can impact its function because it’s not the primary nutrient it’s looking for. 

Evan Brand: And then here’s what it says advocates claim that glyphosate is not harmful to humans, as the shikimate pathway does not occur in humans. But the truth is, glyphosate enters our gut and primarily targets the good bacteria, and then that’s when you get the bacterial overgrowth. So that’s kind of what the industry will will counteract on let’s say, well, humans don’t have chicken meat pathways. That’s why it’s not dangerous. But the mechanism is that it’s killing the good bacteria in the gut. And it’s really an antibiotic that, you know, disguised as an herbicide. And so that’s the problem. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think the big thing that if you look at some of the studies on the topic, where they look at glyphosates impact on the gut lining and the brush border, in the small intestine, the brush borders, what secretes a lot of enzymes and aids in digestion. And if you just look at the thinning out of the gut lining in the small intestine, and you look at the increase in gut permeability that can happen from that. All of those type of mechanisms are part of what’s driving a lot of autoimmunity. So when you have increased gut permeability, weaken gut lining, you have a imbalance in the healthy bacteria in the guts all of those tilts your immune system in the direction of autoimmunity, it tilts your immune system in the direction of lack of nutrient absorption, which then affects the immune system as well. So all of these things compound right gut in bad gut bacteria and balanced dysbiosis. Right, more bad bacteria than good gut permeability, increased autoimmunity, increased food allergens, less nutrient density, obviously, you’re eating plants that have a lot of Roundup, there may be less nutrients in those plants, right. So all of those things just kind of spiral out of control. And, and typically, if you’re consuming the big foods that are going to have the highest residue, they’re going to be a lot of your grains, right grains, and soy and corn and wheat and all those things. So if you’re eating a lot of those foods, that’s a lot of processed food anyway. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. And that’s why you and I talked about, a lot of people feel so much better on like grain free or more paleo template, because not only are they getting rid of the allergenic foods, but they’re getting rid of the chemicals too, because everything is so heavily sprayed. Now one of Stephanie’s arguments, which was interesting was that the people are having so much gluten sensitivity is because of the glyphosate. And so she told me she actually eats organic wheat, and she feels totally fine. And I said, Well, what about gluten and zonulin? And all that? And she goes, I don’t know if that’s the full story because I feel fine. But feeling fine. I don’t know. I’d like to see like a stool test, right? And look at gut inflammation and all that and try to confirm because and look at gluten antibodies, because I still even if it’s organic You and I are still not going to recommend people going into the grains. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And then also the other element of this whole thing is what about glyphosate, when it’s heated up? What if you have glyphosate residue on certain foods, and then you’re cooking, you’re heating those foods up? What does that do to it? Because I know, there’s some data out there showing that a lot of these pesticides become more toxic when they’re heated. So that’s another area another avenue of discussion, probably not a lot of data on it, but definitely a lot of theoretical, what well, you know, what if that does make it worse, and so that’s definitely a concern. So, you know, out of the gates, I think the big thing people can control is going to be water and runoff. So everyone should have at least a reverse osmosis water filter to filter a lot of the roundup glyphosate out of that, so you’re not getting exposed via water. And then number two is do your best to eat organic or if you’re on a budget, try to do at least clean 15 these are going to be the foods that are going to have a relative peel over it right avocado, banana, those kind of things that will decrease the amount of residue because as a peel, and they just going to have less of the glyphosate anyway, and so try to do at least clean the clean 15 and then avoid the Dirty Dozen if you will, but try to go organic free range as much as you possibly can. Because it’s not just the nutrient density that’s important with organic it’s the decrease in toxic load. There’s both you win twice you you win with nutrient density, and you decrease toxic load. I think it was um, I had Joel Salatin on my podcast last year. And he talked about his eggs that are pasture fed, and he sent a bunch of conventional eggs to the grocery store. And to a lab Actually, I’m sorry, to a lab. So conventional eggs he bought at the grocery store to his own pasture eggs in his backyard, his farm, right. And he compared the nutrient levels of it. And so he just compared one nutrient full eight. And he found that his eggs had 19 times more full light than the conventional x 19 times. So if you look at it, it’s like wow, I’m getting 19 times a day. An important nutrient. And maybe the eggs cost twice as much. What’s kind of a pretty good deal? That’s a pretty good ROI on your investment there. 

Evan Brand: It is. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I need to interview him. He’s awesome. And I love his books and love seeing the farming videos. A lot of people I know he has like students, though, they’ll do all the work for him. He’s got an amazing setup, because he pays like zero labor costs, because everybody wants to learn. So he’s got all these people like harvesting his chickens for him. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s a pretty sweet gig. So yeah, it’s really interesting. I think it’s good for everyone to understand that to know about it to be on top of that, and to look at your food differently, right? You got to look at it like, Alright, I’m decreasing the toxic load. So that’s one important big vector. And then I’m increasing the nutrient density side. And if you look at it like that, I think you go into the grocery store and you make different food choices. I think it was Michael Pollan talked about this in his book Omnivore’s Dilemma, as a society today, we allocate way less of our income towards food, I think it’s today, it’s like 9% of our income goes towards food. As a society, I think about I think it was 50 to 100 years ago, it was twice that was 18%. And so people prioritize food a lot more. From an income standpoint, you know, they’re willing to put more of their money where it counts. And today, that’s not the case. And so I just think it’s really important that people really look at allocating their money towards food, because that’s the foundation of everything, especially once you get sick, you’re going to really wish you did. 

Evan Brand: Well, let’s take it a step further to so you got the glyphosate in or out of the picture in your diet. And now, not only are you getting, as you mentioned, potentially 19 times more folate and who knows a lot more B vitamins and other nutrients. But now you’re also getting all these different amino acids, which are going to fuel your neurotransmitters. So you’re going to be happier, yep, you’re going to be able to tolerate stress better, you’re going to be less depressed, you’re possibly going to have better sleep, you’re going to feel better, you’re going to have more energy, so you’re going to perform better at work, you’re going to be a better parent, because you have enough nutrients to stabilize your blood sugar. So you’re not hangry. So I love how you kind of illustrated that you’re not just getting less toxin, more nutrition, you’re really getting a whole better human. And that’s going to extrapolate that out to your friends, your family, your boss, your spouse, everything gets better. So it’s tough when you see people that like even the other day we drove past a Popeye’s chicken. And that’s probably like the lowest quality fast food you could get. Maybe there’s something worse McDonald’s or something. But we’ll see like a brand new Range Rover, you know, $100,000 vehicle, and they’re in the drive thru parking lot getting like a $2 lunch, but they’ve got $100,000 car, it’s like, you got to just focus on the good good stuff. I’d rather drive. You know, like I did for years, a 1990. When I had my 1992 Honda Accord, I was still buying the pastured bison, grass fed beef, steaks, all organic vegetables, you know, even though I had a $4,000 car, I probably spent 4000 a year on high quality groceries. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. So it’s a lot of it is an education thing, getting people to reprioritize kind of where they’re at and it gets number one out of the gates. And then two is just really educating people on the benefits, right? It’s like it’s all about value. So the big thing today that we’re kind of hammering on is the glyphosate component, how that affects your gut lining how that affects dysbiosis, how that affects nutrient absorption, how that affects your immune system, because 80% of your immune systems in the golf and the malt in the stomach and the small intestine. So all these play a major role. And we know that autoimmune conditions are on the rise right there massive amount of increased, not all immune conditions, 150 least different conditions that are out there now. And we know gut permeability plays a major role. We know gluten, we know Roundup, we know gut bacterial imbalance plays a major role. So if we know the mechanisms, then we can work on creating an execution plan to help believe that. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, there are several charts online, you could just look this up yourself. You could type in autism, glyphosate, and you can see some of the correlation not necessarily causation. But definitely the correlation charts, where you’ll see the autism rates skyrocket exponentially, along with the exponential use of glyphosate. And, you know, Stephanie’s talked about this many times. Dr. Kurt Waller, he’s hit on this. He’s done many great presentations on autism, and has some courses all about that one of the integral pieces of his protocols I know is detox. So let’s talk about that. What do you actually do? You and I have many, many before and after on ourselves personally, but also clinical case studies where I’ve seen literally 1000s of percent off the chart, I mean levels so high that the lab can even give you a range for it. And we’ve been able to take those people and significantly reduce it, especially in children. I’ve seen kids that are four or five, six years old, off the charts with two four D glyphosate and many other of the organophosphate pesticides and holy crap, it’s scary when you first look at it. You look at the symptoms, you look at the gut, you look at the skin, you look at the behavioral problems, but man within six months to a year I’m confident most people listening could clear out 90 plus percent of their chemical load.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, 100% I think it’s, it’s super important to be empowered like that. So, so you hit a couple of the big mechanisms there. So I think one of the first things people have to look at is when there’s stress, there’s going to be indigestion, right, there’s going to be some level of bloating or gas, we’re just not breaking a lot of the nutrients down. And we have to look at what are the nutrients, we need to run a lot of these pathways, you kind of hit some right there. But we need amino acids, we need a lot of sulfur, we need a lot of the sulfur rich cruciferous vegetables, we need a lot of B vitamins, we need a lot of antioxidants. So for eating nutrient poor food, we’re not going to get those we also need a lot of good high quality sulfur based amino acids. And when you know from our healthy pasture fed eggs and animal products, and if we’re not eating those things and breaking them down optimally, then we’re gonna have problems, we’re not gonna be able to get the amino acids to make our powerful glutathione to help with our B vitamins, and our methylation and acetylation glucuronidation are phase one cytochrome p 450. Or phase two cytochrome p 450. oxide pathways that require on the phase one B vitamins and antioxidants, phase two, all the sulfur amino acids to run those pathways. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and the glyphosate messes up that P 450 cytochrome p 450 pathway too, so that was another mechanism that gets screwed up. And even if you have the nutrients and to fuel that pathway, if you’ve got a big Roadblock, there are you mentioned the glucuronidation pathway. That’s another issue. We’ve done podcast on this but the the spark notes the long story short for people listening is when you have bacterial overgrowth in your gut, which could be traced back to glyphosate exposure, damaging your good bacteria, therefore allowing the dysbiosis to happen. That then messes up this enzyme, which is the beta glucuronidation enzyme which we test for via stool now your re circulating hormones and recirculating toxin. So, like, you know, Justin and I will do protocols where we may throw in something like calcium D glue gray to inhibit that enzyme, but we have to work backwards and fixing the gut. So all this could be traced back to your glyphosate exposure sounds get reference. Sounds crazy to think like, wow, me eating conventionally sprayed toxic strawberries lead to my depression and my anxiety, but there’s the link of how it can all go down. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. So we talked about a lot of the key nutrients, right, we talked about the gluten, and we talked about the antioxidants. Also, if we have a lot of inflammation happening in the brain, what do we do? So of course, we have powerful antioxidants like glutathione we have, which is it’s twofold, right? Because it also helps with the pathways of elimination, but it’s also a powerful antioxidant. So it deals with a lot of the oxidative stress that happens from these toxins. We also have things like vitamin D, we have things like curcumin, curcumin, like compounds, or is bare trawl gingko bacopa things that have anti inflammatory cognitive enhancement benefits. Because a lot of times what we have is we have this immune response that’s over reactive that’s stimulated in the brain, we have our immune cells called microglial cells in the brain that are overstimulated. And so a lot of times, we have to attenuate that and get that kind of calm down and relax because it’s in this positive feedback loop is once it starts getting ramped up and ramped up and ramped up and ramped up, it’s kind of at this arching level of it’s just it’s continuing to increase, increase, increase. And if we can calm that down what’s powerful antioxidant compounds, while we also stop adding fuel to the fire with a lot of these toxins and pesticides, that’s going to help us a lot. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, absolutely. And the big heavy lifters, we won’t say the names because who knows in the future, our ideas and thoughts may change. So we’ll be putting some links in the show notes on your app to where you can view these products. But let’s break down some of the nutrients at least in the products in case we come out with our own or we come out with better versions in the future something the biggest heavy lift or I would say is definitely going to be chlorella. And specifically, as opposed to the conventionally sold mass marketed what’s called broken cell wall chlorella, which is decent, we like to use one that’s called a micronized chlorella, which is extremely small molecules of chlorella, that is able to get across the blood brain barrier. That’s the magic sauce that most chlorella products fall short. And I literally have 100 case studies where I could show you a before and after of getting children and adults on these products. And we’ve been able to massively reduce the levels at a woman in Canada just last week, she was off the chart with nearly every chemical gasoline xylene validates pesticides, herbicides, two, four D glyphosate, the whole nine yards. And within six months to a year of doing some of this stuff. Her levels are now non detected in a lot of categories. She’s not fully out of the woods, if we could get her in a sauna, which is another way to help with glyphosate. I think she would speed it up but just the chemical detox alone using nutrients massive success.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that. I love it. Yeah, like you mentioned binders we have different chlorella we have different maybe activated charcoal or bentonite clay compounds we have a kind of our own formulated products that we love. We’ll put the links down below, we have a lot of the glue defi on or solidify on sulfur amino acid precursor building blocks, those are really powerful. We have a lot of liver tonifying and supporting herbs to help the liver and gallbladder whether it’s milk thistle or, or, or dandelion or phosphatidylcholine. We have a lot of those nutrients that we’ve kind of formulated up. And I think that outside of that would be we get some of the B vitamins, the binders we hit some of the tonifying herbs. cloudify owns sulfur amino acid, I think we hit all the major ones out of the gates, I would just say there’s some different lipidsoma curcumin, and resveratrol and anti inflammatory compounds that the we’re looking at that really have great clinical benefits. Also binders on the activated charcoal a zeolite, citrus pectin side. So we’ll put some of our links to products that we’re personally using with ourselves, patients and family and clinically every day. And we’re kind of looking at the results that we’re getting and trying to always adjust it. So it’s the best. We’ll put those down below. Anything else Evan, you want to add today? 

Evan Brand: Yeah, so the MCP, the modified citrus, pectin, that’s something we can use, we’ll often use that in a blend, and then fulvic and humic acids, those tend to do really, really good too. I don’t like those in isolation. So a lot of people have really jumped on kind of the fulvic acid train, I think it’s smart. I think they’re great. But I’ve seen, you know, before and after test results, and I haven’t been super impressed in isolation. So we might use those foam fulvic and humic acids quite a bit. But it’s going to be in a blend, it’s not going to be by itself. We’re gonna have the chlorella, maybe the cilantro. As you mentioned, milk, this whole other liver support, maybe lymphatic support thrown in there to infrared, sauna, rebounding, anything you can do to sweat hot baths, Epsom salt, where you can boost that sulfur pathway, fixing the gut getting the gut infections address, so you can get that glucuronidation pathway working better, doing the testing on your stool to see where your gut is, if your systems even working properly, to do the detox, and then obviously doing the before and after chemical testing. And I will tell you, there’s not a single non toxic human on the planet unless they’ve done a really great job with chemical detox. But just coming in your average person coming into us with complaints doing the testing, you’re going to have chemical levels off the chart, I only had one guy who came to me over hundreds and hundreds of chemical profiles who didn’t have much of anything. And this was a guy who was doing a sauna for almost an hour, five times a week. And I was like, Whoa, you’re proof that Asana excretes a lot. So everyone else they were pretty much off the chart. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I had a patient just recently to did a sauna session. And this person had eye level of mercury. And the kind of one of the biggest things I preach is you have a good sulphur soap, that’s going to decrease that lipid barrier and get a quick shower right afterwards. So you can get all the chemicals and stuff off your skin that are fat soluble metals and such toxins, make sure you do that as soon as possible. This person waited think 10 to 15 minutes. And during that timeframe that next day, they had a major herxheimer or issue. And my concern is if you don’t get those toxins off your skin fast, there’s a great chance you’re going to reabsorb them, and then you’re going to reabsorb met a very high level. And that can create a lot of herxheimer. So you got to be very careful. If you’re using an infrared sauna, you won’t want to flush those toxins off your skin fast and make sure you’re really hydrating well, and you may even want to go into that sauna session with binders and solidify them before and during just in case you reabsorb some of those toxins. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s great advice. And that’s why a lot of people recommend like a cold like water plunge or a cold shower afterwards. So you can really just seal up get those goosebumps get your pores sealed up to where everything is off. I know for me, it was crazy, because I was kind of skeptical. I thought is that really are you really reabsorbing stuff. So I did kind of a warm shower. It was soap and then I did a cold shower. And who knows maybe it was all the benefits of cold in general. But I tell you I feel so much better with a cold shower after the sauna. as brutal as it is to put that thing all the way on cold, especially in the winter. It’s cold, but man, I feel like a million bucks after that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, no, I think that’s that’s smart. So I urge patients if you’re going to do an infrared sauna, which I think is powerful, just kind of start with five or 10 minutes, do a quick shower afterwards have a good soap ready that can kind of cut that lipid by layer. Because remember, a lot of these toxins are going to be they’re going to be fat based. They’re going to be what fat soluble toxins. So it’s like imagine cleaning a pan that you just had bacon in right? With just water. You need that emulsifying dawn soap or whatever organic soap to kind of cut that friction off the pan and allow that grease to kind of come off you right? If you don’t, you’ll feel that greasiness afterwards. Well, it’s the same thing with these fat soluble toxins. You really want to use that soap emulsify what’s on your skin so it’s flushed off so you don’t reabsorb it later. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and you made a good point. I’ll just take a step further on the hydration piece and the mineral balance piece. If you’ve got adrenal issues, mineral imbalances, electrolyte problems, you know, thyroid issues, sleep issues, you’re chronically sleep deprived, you know, you’re just kind of a weak constitution. You got to be careful and go slow and steady with the sauna. If you get woozy, you get lightheaded, if you do pass out or you feel like you’re gonna pass out your heart’s racing uncontrollably, you’re getting heart palpitations, you’re gonna know you’re mobilizing too much. So when your body’s saying stop, stop, don’t push through. I made the mistake of pushing through one time. It took me like two to three days to recover. So don’t don’t do that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100% Well, I like it. Guys. If you enjoyed today’s podcast, please feel free put it down in the comments. Let us know what you liked about it. Let us know your own experiences dealing with chemical detoxification. And a lot of the pesticides and chemicals we chatted about today, we’ll put links down to our favorite products, detoxification, support water filters, things that are going to decrease toxin load in your body and things that are going to help your body expel toxins better. And it guys if you enjoy today’s podcast, feel free head over to EvanBrand.com or JustinHealth.com. We are available worldwide to help you all out if you need that extra functional medicine, nutrition support. We are here as well. Anything else? 

Evan Brand: No, that’s it, you covered it all. And thanks for listening.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/glyphosate-and-chemical-detox-podcast-334

Recommended products:

TruKeto Collagen

TRUCOLLAGEN

Organic Grass Fed Meat

Emulsi D Supreme

Detox Aminos

Heavy Metal Clear

Water Filtration Devices

Whole house water filter

Clearly Filtered

The Top 5 Reasons Why Your Estrogen Levels are High – Men & Women!

Let’s talk about the top 5 reasons why your estrogen levels are high. We’re going to break them down today.

WHAT ARE ESTROGENS?

First, let’s look at the 3 major kinds of estrogens: E1 or estrone, E2 or estradiol, and E3 or estriol. In a woman’s regular cycle, it’s usually estradiol we’re talking about. When you start shifting to more menopausal and the ovary stops working, you start getting more estriol. The adrenals help in kick in a lot of DHEA and you make more estriol. Estradiol is more of the growth factor type of estrogen and estriol is a weaker estrogen.

Click here if you need to consult with a functional medicine doctor to learn more about estrogen and your hormones.

WHERE CAN WE FIND ESTROGENS?

  1. PLASTICS. You’ll get it when the plastic is warm like in a microwave or out of a plastic water bottle especially if it’s in the car and the sun is hitting it or it’s outside. That’s why you want a good stainless steel or glass water bottle if you’re going to go outside or leaving it in the sun. The microwave heat and the radiation is going to cause a big release of plastic chemicals there, the xenoestrogens. One of the big ones are the phthalates but also BPA. There are other types of BPAs that are new which are supposedly safe but there are still estrogen-like compounds there as well. These plastics can affect women and men as well. Men are actually going to be more affected by them because men aren’t used to having estrogen in their environment and getting a whole bunch is going to be a problem.
  2. PESTICIDES. These tend to have an estrogenic quality to them and if you’re eating foods that are not organic, you’re definitely going to be getting organochlorines and various pesticides in your environment.
  3. PHYTOESTROGENS. These are found in soy. For example, I had a vegan-vegetarian patient. We ran a Dutch sex hormone panel on her and her estradiol was through the roof and really high. Phytoestrogens can be a big one, so soy may be a problem. With vegan-vegetarian, there’s a lot of phony protein consumption like fake meat kind of stuff such as the Beyond burger where there are a lot of soy and estrogen-like compounds in there. There are also hormones in meat. You have to make sure you get antibiotic-free, hormone-free, and ideally organic and pasture-fed or if you’re on the Whole Foods scale, step 4 or step 5 is ideal. Step 2 is at least pretty good. Organic means no pesticides, no hormones, and also the food they’re eating has no pesticides or hormones, too.
  4. HIGH LEVELS OF INSULIN. Too much carbs drive high levels of insulin because insulin responds to a high level of blood sugar. The blood sugars in your bloodstream go up and your pancreas comes in. The beta cells make a bunch of insulin to bring it down and bring it into the cellar and converted to fat. So, high levels of insulin upregulate an enzyme in men called aromatase that converts testosterone, the male hormones, to estrogen which becomes a problem. Now, in women, a similar thing happens but it’s the exact opposite or the big switch. Their estrogen is converted to testosterone. So, women can actually get more androgen-like issues which results in weight gain, acne, hair growth, and sometimes you can see some libido enhancements on that. So, that’s the difference between men and women.
  5. POOR GUT HEALTH. In the gut, we make healthy good bacteria in our gut that help us absorb a lot of nutrients. A good healthy gut function helps us break down protein for good HDL levels and good enzyme levels. We need these to break down protein into amino acids which are really important for helping us to detoxify. So, detoxification helps us to excrete estrogens that we’re getting exposed to in our environments such as the pesticides, plastic, or something that you don’t even know you’re getting exposed to. Good healthy detoxification will help your body eliminate that, so that’s a good backup plan.Also, if we have a lot of dysbiosis, SIBO and bacterial overgrowth, we can make a lot of what’s called beta-glucuronidase. This is an enzyme that’s made by bad bacteria and it makes it harder to detoxify estrogen. The beta-glucuronidase takes conjugated estrogens and binds it to a protein that helps us excrete it out the body. It takes that protein and it pulls it apart. It takes the handcuffs off that protein, so that allows that estrogen that’s been deconjugated to go back into the body in the general circulation. So, if we have gut issues, that could be a major concern.

HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE PROBLEM?

We need things like cysteine, glycine, glutamine, sulfur amino acids, and things that help us methylate like B12, B6, and folate. So, these nutrients we have to get them in our diet via a good diet. We need to be able to break down and absorb those nutrients, so we need good digestion to get those things in there.

So, in general, we’ve got to make sure we have a good gut bacteria balance. Even fungal overgrowth can cause problems and H. pylori that can lower stomach acid and make it harder to break down nutrition on one side and then it can create this bacterial overgrowth enzyme that makes it hard to detoxify estrogen. These are really important components. If you have any issues with estrogen, you’ve got to look there.

Now, we may want to do things to help detoxify like make lifestyle changes, food changes, pesticide changes, make the changes in regards to plastics, and make in in regards to your diet, your glycemic load, and your gut. That’s a good first step to get to the bottom. There are also different things we may do to help upregulate detoxification to help get that estrogen. It may be activated charcoal or various soluble fibers. It could be things like bentonite clay. We could use things like DIM or Calcium D-Glucarate or glutathione, sulfur amino acids, and vitamin C. They’re all helpful in different situations. We would recommend them based on what’s happening but at least make the diet and lifestyle changes out of the gates.

If you want to find out the root cause of what’s happening, click this link where you can schedule a chat with me!

The Root Causes of Constipation & Slow Motility | Podcast #331

Wouldn’t it be easy if you could blame your constipation on one thing? While that typically isn’t the case, your irregularity could be pointing to either one or multiple causes. Let’s watch and listen to Dr. J and Evan here, helping you learn what your gut may be trying to tell you, and what you can do about it. 

Dr. J and Evan emphasized to make a few changes to your lifestyle and see if they result in any positive bowel changes. Such as more high-fiber foods in your meals: fruits, vegetables, whole grains.  These steps will help you observe health changes – what works and what’s not via tests results as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:56       Slow Motility, Bowel Motility

8:06       Detoxification

15:57     Food for Detox

22:00     Vegan Honeymoon

27:40     System Approach, Solutions

30:51     Conventional Side

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we are going to be having a podcast all about constipation and bowel motility issues. This is a topic that we deal with all the time with our patients, especially when we’re dealing with and addressing potential infections. This can be a common side effects. So we’re going to dive into the underlying mechanisms and what you can do what we do about it with patients. Evan, what’s going on, man? How we doing?

Evan Brand: Doing really well. If someone listening is still embarrassed to talk about their poop, then I would encourage you to shed that shit shed the shame or embarrassment. We talk about poop all day. We love it, we enjoy it. This is part of being a human number one being a healthy human number two, because if you’re not pooping, you’re reabsorbing toxins, whether that’s xeno estrogens from environmental exposure or pesticide and herbicide or mold toxins, I mean, how we get rid of our toxic waste and chemicals and things we’re making internally and that we’re exposed to is peeing and pooping. And so when you look at someone who feels bad, they have dark circles under their eyes, they have skin issues, they’re irritable, they’re fatigued, they have headaches, a lot of times constipation is one of the underlying issues with those people. And if we can just get them pooping properly good amount in good shape, good size, good consistency, good frequency, we can really increase their productivity, their energy, their mental cognition, we can get rid of sugar cravings. I mean, there’s a lot that can happen when you just regulate the bowels. So we’re going to dive in today on some of the big root causes root triggers, I’m going to go straight to number one for me, which is going to be gut infections. Now, you and I were just talking before we hit record about different gut bugs and how some people with IBS, they’ll end up IBS constipation, others end up IBS D diarrhea. And so depending on what type of infections you have, your bowels may become dysregulated.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And so, when you have different gut stressors, slow motility can easily be a result. So you can easily see on the on the fast side, motility is too fast. Our body doesn’t have the ability to reabsorb water and electrolytes in time, because usually electrolytes and water kind of follow each other. So as the colon kind of pulls out the electrolytes, usually the water comes out with it. And so when we have slower bowel movements, right, they’re usually harder, more compact kind of stools. So if we look at like, for instance, the Bristol stool chart, I’ll pull that up on screen. So anyone that’s watching the podcast can take a look at it. The Bristol stool chart, the chart that’s used by gastroenterologist and such, but it’s just a way of kind of assessing where you’re still fit. So the typical number four is like the poopy policeman. And that’s like just a really good solid looking snake, like not overly hard not overly soft stool. That’s number one. If you go to the actual number one on the Bristol stool chart that’s like kind of the rabbit poop, right, the rabbit pellets really hard, hard to move. And then number seven is just pure liquid. So four is kind of right in the middle, and in between. So let me just show you what I’m talking about here. So you guys can visualize if you’re watching the podcast video along with it. So here is the Bristol stool charts that you guys can see. Okay, so number one, right separate heart clubs, nuts hard to pass. This is like the rabbit poop, right? That’s type one. And then it gently progresses back to two and three, right? where it starts to get more sausage shaped like it says except it gets more smoother, and that as it goes to three. And then step type four is the perfect poopy policeman kind of more of a sausage like more smooth, not overly cracked or not overly soft. And then you can see as you go to five and six, it becomes more liquid and then seven and just entirely liquid watery, no solid. And so that gives us a pretty good window. And so we usually when we have when the guts really inflamed, and we have usually a lot of toxicity in the gut, we can usually see it go to number seven where it’s pure liquid. And that’s because the body is just trying to flush things out. And when things go a little bit slower, you could still have inflammation and have type one right so you could have h pylori, that’s lowering stomach acid, you could have a lot of cebo that is meth that’s producing a lot of methane based back gases. And how do you know it’s methane is you have a lot of foul smelling gas or flatulence that’s a sign that there’s a lot of methane present. And methane can easily screw up that migrating motor complex and make the bowels go more on the slow side. But you can have the same level of infections like h pylori, or maybe histo or Giardia. And that could also cause it to go on the diarrhea side. So it just kind of depends. Everyone’s a little bit different. But we always you could have cebo you could have h pylori, you could have low enzyme and low acid levels that can easily be causing type one. But for someone else, those same infections could easily be driving steps type seven, right where it’s pure liquid. So you got to look at everyone as an individual on that. And really, you know, come up with the right plan.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and it can Alternate to write. I mean, that was my situation when I first had gut issues and I was losing weight uncontrollably when I had H. pylori and parasites and bacterial overgrowth and Candida the whole nine yards. You know, there’d be some days the gut was good. And most days the gut was not good. Luckily, I’m over that now. But man, I’ll tell you, I have a lot of empathy for people that, you know, you never know what you’re going to get, you kind of wake up and it’s like, Is today a good day or not a good day. And now that I’ve learned so much, you and I, both over the past few years about mold toxicity, that’s a big trigger for gut issues, too. So I’m get constipated, but a lot of diarrhea. And I think that’s the body’s way of trying to get rid of the toxin, but also the gut is so irritated. And you can have leaky gut from mycotoxin exposure, that that can be a factor too. So eventually, we’ll get into the gut healing phase of our conversation. I think that’s critical to healing constipation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And so on the constipation side, there could be issues with obviously, the bowel motility has to be slow. So what’s constipation. So if you’re not having a BM, you’re not passing about 12 inches of stool in about a 24 hour period. That’s typically constipation. And there are millions of people in this country that aren’t able to have a BM every day. Now, once you start going 2 3 4 5 6 7, I see some patients that go up to seven days about a BM, that’s a problem because half of your stool is going to be bacteria. The other half is going to be you know, fiber and such. And within that stool, some of that bacteria and toxins needs to leave your body. If you’re not having that pass through your intestinal tract into the toilet, your chance of reabsorbing a lot of those toxins goes up really high. That’s definitely not good. Because those toxins get reabsorbed into your body. There could be xeno estrogens, there could be mold toxins, there could be a whole bunch of junk in there that you could be reabsorbing, and that could be really stressing out your body. So the first thing we talked about with detoxification is people talk about Detox Detox Detox, right? Well, if you’re not pooping every day, and that’s because of a gut infection or not chewing your food well enough or having insufficient hydrochloric acid or enzyme levels, or having some kind of a h pylori or SIBO issue. All of those things can easily affect your detoxification people are really focused on detox. Just by getting your digestion and your motility better. That makes a huge difference on your liver, and all your detoxification pathways, your lymphatics, your immune everything.

Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s funny, you’ll see women on Instagram, they’re all done up their hair and their makeup and their lipstick, and they’re like marketing, hashtag add hashtag detox hashtag tea. And they’ve got these like, I don’t know, you know how it is like, these ridiculous products that they’re marketing and they’re not talking about poop. To me, that’s the best way to detox is get poop out. I’m not going to buy detox tea, maybe like a little bit of dandelion or some who knows milk thistle, blend it in. Yeah, I mean that that’s part of it. But unfortunately, detox has kind of gotten co opted by the marketing industry. And so most people don’t even focus on that, though. You know, they’ll poop once a week, but then they take a detox tea and they think they’re doing it correctly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, my whole take on detoxification out of the gates is very simple. Okay, first, get enough good clean water in your system, to make sure you’re digesting your amino acids and all your nutrients. Well, remember, sulfur based amino acids run the majority of your detoxification pathways, along with B vitamins, right. So we need good B vitamins, good antioxidants, good sulfur amino acids. So if we’re breaking down those nutrients, well, there’s not a bottleneck with HDL levels or enzyme levels. We’re getting enough good clean water. And we’re not overly stressing our sympathetic nervous system because remember, the more we overly overly stress the adrenals the sympathetic nervous system decreases that migrating motor complex, which are the wave like contractions that move stool through your intestinal tract just like you kind of roll up the to pace roll at night, I get that toupees moving through to get your toothpaste out to brush your teeth. your intestines do the same thing. So if you can do those top three things, right, you’re on the right track. Now there may be extra things where we need extra sulfur or extra antioxidants or compounds or binders to help with mold or heavy metals. That’s true and that that would be addressed down the road but a lot of toxic patients detoxification happens hepatobiliary liver gallbladder back into the intestines and then out the intestinal tract. So we need to have really good motility and really good absorption of nutrients and a lot of good clean water to help fuel that.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. Good point. Yeah, so we both manufacture our own custom blends of supplements that are professional grade, and we both have a liver support that has some gallbladder nutrients built into it. That can be really helpful because, as you mentioned, with sluggish bowels, a lot of times there’s also sluggish bile production. So just helping to thin the bile, whether it’s using supplemental ox bile or muthoni, taurine, beet powder, whatever else we could do to increase bile flow that’s going to be helping and then why don’t we hit on the diet piece. I mean, I think this is the low hanging fruit that you’re having. American is still really really blowing it on, which is just the fact that they’re not doing enough good meats, good fats, good veggies, you know, your average, American might wake up and I don’t know, do a piece of toast and maybe in 2020, or 2021, it’s an avocado toast. But still, you know, that’s not the optimal thing for good poops.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, so inflammation in the diet can easily mess up the intestinal tract, inflammation in the diet can easily create inflammation in the gut. And that could either move the body more to diarrhea or more constipation. Now, for the sake of this podcast, if we start moving more to constipation, not good. And of course, you know, these foods can stress out the intestinal tract. And then when we start creating inflammation in the intestinal tract, and then we already have indigestion, and we don’t have adequate enzymes and acids, so we’re kind of burping a lot after our meals, food sits longer in our tummy, right, and we’re not in a lot of gases are produced because the foods are not being broken down properly, that’s a problem. So we got to really make sure we’re masticating and chewing our food very, very, very well, we got to make sure that increases surface area for enzymes and acids to work, we also have to make sure we’re not overly hydrating with our meals. So hydrate 10 minutes or more before meal. And then if you’re consuming a little bit of liquid with a meal, just do it to kind of help with swallowing pills, don’t do it for hydration purposes. Because water has got a pH of seven, your intestinal tracts a pH of 1.5, or two. So if you start adding a whole bunch of seven, Ph to a to a pH of two, you’re going to move that pH more in the alkaline direction away from the acid at direction. And we need good acidity to help activate our enzymes and our acid levels very important. So that’s low hanging fruit is chew your food up well. Second, is make sure you’re not overly hydrating with the food do all your hydration two minutes before.

Evan Brand: I’ve got my grandfather so many times till this drink liquid with almost every bite of his food, held his Drink, drink drink, like take a bite of food and wash it down with liquid. I’m like no, like you’re literally just pouring water on your digestive fire don’t do that. So yeah, it’s it’s easy. And it actually does make a difference. I mean, you know, I’ve probably talked about that before. But it does make a difference. Like if I, I’ve got a mason jar here, my goal, if I sit at the dinner table, I will try to not have it more than like two ounces of liquid. You know, if I have a full cup, I’m more I’m liable to drink it. If I’ve just got a little bit I know, hey, this is the only liquid I have if I need a little help with the meal. Otherwise it just food, no liquid with the meal. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, for me, as soon as I know, like a meal is coming, I’m gonna go just maybe take two mason jars, add some sea salt to it, I’m going to down them and then I’m good. And then you know, 510 minutes later, I can start the eating process and I chew my food out very well. So then that gets the digestive juices rolling as well. So on top of that another low hanging fruit is let’s say you eat good quality proteins or fats, and that makes you constipated. That’s almost a surefire sign. You’re not making enough enzymes or acids. So some people they really do poor with enzymes, and acids, and it reveals itself through animal products. Now, a lot of people when that happens, guess what their natural tendency is, unfortunately, either going to go vegetarian or yeah, oh, it’s the meat that’s so bad for my gods, the meat that’s in my intestinal tract for days and days. It’s rotting in there, you know, yeah, documentaries, I have to cut out the animal products. Well, it’s just a sign that your enzymes and your acids are really poor. And the meat is revealing that now what’s the solution? Now in the meantime, you may want to drop down some of the meat that you’re doing, or some of the protein or fat you’re doing, just to kind of lessen some of the stress off the intestinal tract. But the first thing we’ll do before that is we’ll add in some HCl and some enzymes, maybe even some bile salts, we’ll see how much that starts to correct it. And then if we need then we can drop the animal protein and fat down a little bit if we need. Now, if your intestinal tracts really messed up, you may have to do an elemental or a bone broth faster, or something more liquid based to make it easier on your intestine. So everyone’s a little bit different. And we have a lot of clinical experience about being able to meet someone where they’re at so we can get optimal results.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and it’s sad that the meat gets the blame, you know, and like you said, all these documentaries that will pop up on Netflix, they’re all like, majority, you know, anti meat vegetarian vegan documentaries, and then you kind of have to help clients because sometimes we’ll get clients that have not listened to enough of us where the we haven’t convinced them to get back on me actually had a vegan or ex vegan client come to me last week. She said she was vegan for six years. And she got back on me with the help of listening to our podcasts. And she says she feels better than she ever has, which is amazing. She was able to transition back onto me without necessarily a bunch of supplemental enzymes, but in most cases, yeah, we’re going to come in due to and people may say why why do I need the supplement? Well, we don’t live in a world where you’re sitting on the edge of a cliff overlooking a river valley with no stress. And you know, hunter gatherer average work 18 hours a week. We’re not doing that anymore. We’re working 40 60 hour work weeks. We’ve got kids, we’ve got technology we’ve got Got smartphones taking our attention away, we’re scrolling in Bowling at chipotle looking at our phone while we’re eating, or we’re stressed from bills and mortgages and obligations and whatever and age, by the time you’re age 40 50 60, you’re not making hardly any enzymes and acids compared to when you were younger. So all those factors add up that is the answer of why why do you need enzymes to support you? And how do enzymes help you poop? Well, because when that food is digesting better, your body’s going to be able to get rid of what it doesn’t need. And if you have a lot of malabsorption problems, you know, you may see on digested food in the stool. And over time, I’ve noticed people just adding in a handful of berries a day was all we needed to really clear up their their issues. Once we got all the gut infections enzymes in, you know, infections resolved, enzymes put in if they still needed help, we’ll go into a couple other things you want to get into. But handful of blueberries, I mean, that does a lot.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it just kind of going back to some of the the vegan stuff. So I always tell my patients will in general, ie more non starchy vegetables, most paleo people eat more non starchy vegetables than vegans do. Most vegans I find have lots of processed carbohydrate, they have lots of grains, lots of lentils, or legumes and they don’t typically eat tons of non starchy vegetables, it’s it’s difficult. On the vegan side, most don’t do it right now, if you’re going to be a vegan, you need to do lots of good fats from avocado and coconuts. And you probably need some kind of an amino acid supplement from rice or pea protein or some kind of some kind of an algae kind of protein source because most aren’t doing it right if you’re going to do it that way. But number two is sometimes the vegetables can jack you up to especially if they’re raw, because a lot of that fiber or if the vegetables are higher in fermentable, carbohydrates, some can be like garlic and onions and, and broccoli and asparagus, they can be higher and fodmaps. And fodmaps can be fertilizer for a lot of the SIBO base bacteria. So if you have a lot of bad bacteria that’s producing maybe more methane, and some of those vegetables start to feed some of that methane producing bacteria that may make you more constipated too. So I’ve seen some patients do better more with the meats than with a lot of the plants. So I’ve seen it go both ways. And you know, it’s hard because if you’re let’s say you’re one person, and you had an experience where you went vegan, and you felt great, well guess what, you only have your experience, I see patients that have gone carnivore and felt great. And so because we have this perspective, where we’ve seen dozens of people do great from different things, that allows us to form a unbiased clinical recommendation on what we think is best for the patient, because we’ve seen successes work from both sides. And the question is, we don’t have a dogmatic belief in Oh, well, this is what does it well, this is why it would do it for this person. And this is maybe why it doesn’t for you. And we’re going to we’re going to move the levers around because the goal isn’t to do this thing is to get you the result. So it’s really important that if you’re working with someone, you know, kind of talking to patients that are out there, you want someone you want to work with someone that’s results driven, not process driven, meaning, hey, this, you have to do this diet, this is the most important thing, this should get you the results versus Hey, no, I want to get you these results, we’re going to try pulling some of these levers and see what happens as a result. And then we’ll we’ll go backwards from there. So just really important. You want to make sure you’re working with someone that’s results driven, not necessarily, you know, dogma driven, if you will.

Evan Brand: That’s another great soundbite. You’re just rolling out these things. I love it. This is exactly the point that we needed to hit on. Because in this day and age, unfortunately, everything is kind of a soundbite. So you go to the lectin guy, you’re going to get the lectin diet, you go to the carnivore guy, you get the carnivore diet, you go to the vegan guy, you get the vegan, and you and I don’t really have any labels for us, we’d like you said we were results driven. And so we’re able to be more flexible. I love that we’re not in a box, like these people, because once you write the carnivore book or the lectin book, you’re kind of that guy, and then you’re stuck in that box. And it’s like, oh, wait a second, I’ve got all these other people doing really good with some cooked lightly steamed veggies and blueberries over here. But you told me I need to be carnivore. So what the heck, and then it just blows your credibility. So I yeah, I don’t want to be in a box.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now I tend to lean more on the Paleo template, but I use the word template, not diet, so I can have flexibility. And there’s some patients that I’ve seen that haven’t been able to tolerate any meat, we’ve had to just lean on free form amino acids, with some good vegetables or starches that are easy to handle. And I’ve had to go to that extreme with some patients. And if my dogma was no, you must eat animal products all the time. While I may not have been able to help that Paris person so we try to have the levers that we work with. We kind of have like a foundational bias, but it’s a bias that is flexible and that we can adjust according to the patient.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And eventually I would argue that that person you’re referring to could probably get back in and they may have been able to get back here forever later.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not the case, not a forever thing. It’s kind of a starting point where, hey, you break your ankle, you probably may have to be in a wheelchair out of the gates. And then we progress you to, you know, some crutches and they put you on a boot and then you just maybe Walk slowly, you don’t run and now you start jogging and majesty, right, there’s a progression and how you how certain things heal? Well, it’s the same thing, the four year digestive system that’s not quite as outward, it’s inward, right and how it looks and performs. But you can feel it just the same as an outward injury to your foot or hand.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m gonna keep this thing going a little more philosophical than action based for a minute, just to to further this conversation, which is that let’s say someone goes to the bookstore. It’s funny, everything’s changing with society, isn’t it now it’s the Amazon bookstore, the Kindle bookstore, it used to be the real physical brick and mortar, there’s still a need that exists out there. I know there are some. So you go into the store, right, and you go to the diet section, and then someone picks up like, the, like I said, the Paleo book, The lectin book, The carnivore book, they do that, and then they get different or weird results. And then they kind of just give up, and that’s why they get so opposed to the word diet, or they get so opposed to the idea of changing the way they eat to change their symptoms. But the problem is, all these people writing these books are missing all the other root causes. So just because Jane didn’t do well, with a lot of meats, she might give up on meats, like you said, or she saw the documentary and give up on meats, but she never worked with somebody like us. So when we have these clinical tools that we have, where we’re going to be measuring the stool measuring the urine and looking at different infections. If we could just resolve those for Jane, get some of the enzymes back in clear the infections, guess what now she does great with the meat. So it’s sad, because there’s so many people that may have tried stuff like this, but they got so turned off with the non amazing results that they thought it was the diet to blame. But it wasn’t it was just the root causes. And like you said, the indicator is it sort of for us, it’s a clue Oh, that happens when you do meets, that doesn’t mean give it up. That means let’s figure out why. And the H Pylori could be the big one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s true. And I call it the vegetarian or vegan honeymoon. A lot of people that do go vegan, they can feel great their first year, it all depends where they’ve come from if they ate a lot of processed food or crappy food. And they’re eating lots of organic vegetables, and maybe some good healthy or plant fats like olives, or avocado or coconut oil. And they’re just getting a lot of organic food in their system, they may feel a lot better now over time is essential fatty acids and amino acids start moving more in the deficient side. And a lot of those fat soluble vitamins like a d k start moving downward, they’ll start having more problems over time. And that’s kind of I call it the vegan honeymoon where they’re kind of chasing that honeymoon. They’re like, I don’t feel as good as I did last year. And they kind of get stuck. And usually it’s a protein, fatty acid kind of issue, or maybe even a carbohydrate issue too much carbs. And then you got to look deeper. So getting back to the constipation part right, we have the six hours that I used to work with my patients. And we kind of start with that as a framework, removing the bad foods, or placing the enzymes and acids to the first two hours. And we adjust the diet accordingly. So it could be cutting out cutting down a lot of the fiber or a lot more cooking or going lower fodmap. or cutting out salicylates or females or going on to a moon, it could be a combination of all of that could be an elemental diet, of course, adding in enzymes and acids. And bio, especially if the stools are floating more, that’s a sign that we’re not breaking down fat, so we may adjust those first two hours. And if we’re having bowel movement issues, I may add in things like ginger, or bitters or D lime any, we may have to even add in some natural things like trifle or magnesium to really get the bowels moving. It just depends. I don’t like to add in bow movers unless I really can’t move the bowels with those first two hours, right. If I can’t move the bowels with those first two hours changing the diet and changing enzymes, acids and bile support, then we may lean on things to kind of get the ball moving. But I always want to see how the body responds before we have to add those things in first.

Evan Brand: Well, you make a great point. And even clinically, the things you would recommend to be used directly for moving the bowels those things are still a hell of a lot safer and more effective than some of the conventional stuff you’re going to get. So I mean, if you go to your conventional doc and they refer you to the GI doc and you’re diagnosed with let’s say IBS, C constipation, IBS type issue, there’s going to be some type of a pharmaceutical involved and there’s likely going to be side effects with that. And once again, it’s not the root cause so in your case like you mentioned clinically, you may not go straight to the magnesium hydroxide to help move the bowels by adding water to the bowels However, there’s so many people deficient in magnesium anyway that you could be actually fixing simultaneously fixing an underlying mineral deficiency plus helping to move the bowels. So the cool thing about what we do, is there a positive side effect so we can kill multiple birds with the same stone?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, I’d much rather use a nutrient than like an abrasive herb like Cena or Cascara Sagrada, right? No one has a deficiency of that, but they may have some deficiencies in some of these magnesium so that can be helpful. Now if I get bowels moving out of the gates, usually one or two months in, I’m going to try pulling back on some of these compounds to see if the bowels can move on its own. So it just depends, right? We’re getting the body hydrated, we’re chewing better. We’re working on eating and a non stressful environment, we’re getting enzymes and acids better. We’re cutting out the inflammation. And we may be changing some of the format, the building and the food. So all of those things are moving so many levers. So when I work with patients, patients are like, want to know like, what’s the solution for this? What’s the solution for that? It’s like, I don’t know, I’m going to just give you what I’ve seen to work. And we’re going to do eight or nine or 10 things out of the gates. And we’re going to see what works. But in general, to know exactly which one it is, it’s really hard because you’d have to like make one change, wait a couple of weeks, make one change, wait a couple of weeks. And it would take patients years to get better versus weeks and months. And so we make a whole bunch of changes at once. And then we monitor and we check in on those changes.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. So just to give a little more clarity, somebody who’s listening, like what does that even mean? Eight or nine changes. Oh, my God, that’s overwhelming. No, I mean, it could be Hey, look, we’re going to give a little more enzymes and acids, we’re going to pull this food out, we’re going to get you to do a little bit more water and a cleaner water source, we may throw in a little bit of this extra mineral, or maybe a little extra vitamin C, you’re going to do a handful extra of some blueberries, you’re going to make sure you’re getting enough adequate movement because you’re a sedentary job. So we’re going to get you a standing desk. And now you can stand up and move around, we’re going to get you to do a 10 minute walk a day, we’re going to get you to you know, take a couple deep breaths, we’re going to get you to chew your food better, we’re going to make sure that you’re not sitting in, I don’t know a crazy loud restaurant with like, you know, speakers blasting, you know, techno music in the background, we want you to just settle down, we want you to go to bed on time. I mean, yeah, those things give you 5 10 15%. And then by the time you add it all up, you’ve got really good success.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you’re not chewing your food. I’m sorry, you’re not hydrating when you’re eating right? All these things matter. And maybe getting a little bit more sunlight, right? All these things matter. And so that’s why it’s so hard to be like, well, what’s the solution? for this? It’s like, well, there’s a lot of things that can be a contributing factor, it could be 10%, for this 5% for that 20%. For that it’s very rare that this one thing is at 90 100%. Sometimes you get big, like you just make one simple change. And you the next week you check in with the patient. They’re like, well, I’m 80 or 90% better, it’s like whoa, that’s a home run, that can happen too. But we don’t count on it. And that’s why we do things kind of in a systematic fashion of what’s going to be the low hanging fruit and then we kind of move up from there, right? You got to build up the foundation of the house once the foundation solid, now you can you can build up, the foundation is not solid, then you have a whole bunch of problems that have happened with with the building of the house as you start going up.

Evan Brand: Good point. Good point. And this is the whole reason that we do a workup and we run people through a sort of a system. You call it a system approach. Because if you come in and you go to the doc, hey, I’ve got constipation. Pharmaceutical laxative, see you later. If you come to us constipation, it’s like, Huh, Interesting. Interesting. Okay, let’s figure out why. And if you ask why enough and you do the proper testing, you’re going to get to that why. So I just want to make sure we’re always comparing and contrasting because you ask, you know, Bobby, who hasn’t pooped all week what he’s going to do for his constipation, he might go to Walgreens, he’s going to go to the laxative section. Oh, I found this laxative. This one looks good. Let me drink some of this stuff. Oh, yeah, I poked Problem solved. It’s like, huh, yeah, you solve the constipation problem, but you didn’t solve why that’s happening in the first place. So I just, it shouldn’t have to be revolutionary to think root cause, but it still is not the mainstream. So until it’s the mainstream, our job is not done.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And so when for most conventional, like gastro people, for instance, they’re just like, hey, motility support, here you go laxative support, here you go. It’s very rare, you may get one that say, hey, let’s do a Siebel breath test, maybe that, and then what after that, maybe they’re gonna just recommend, hey, you know, do this quick little diet thing, because a lot of the conventional fodmap diet still have a lot of grains and other crap in there. So you may not change the inflammation. And they may throw some Rifaximin or neomycin at you, boom. And then now maybe you have a fungal overgrowth or something on the backside, because they don’t do or address the gut bacteria, right? And then that can create other rebound overgrowth down the road. So let’s say you have a very progressive kind of forward thinking gastro Doc, maybe that’s what happens that I just mentioned, but most that’s going to be hey, here’s your motility enhancer. And you know, you got to just learn to relax and meditate and hey, maybe taking antidepressant a lot of time. That’s it. So you’re kind of stuck. And that’s just the insurance space model. When you have three to five minutes with a doc, that’s typically all they’re going to recommend for you. They don’t have enough time to really dive in deeper. And that model doesn’t give them the ability to dive in deeper. So you really need to see a functional medicine doctor to really have the ability to go deeper and get to the root cause.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I get so frustrated with that term, integrative it just makes me angry because I’ve had so many people and I know you have to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of clients and patients that have said I’ve worked with this angle. Right of guy, Mike Oh, integrative What did he do? And you know, they kind of market it as it’s like so forward thinking, but like you said, it may be the Rifaximin at most. And then guess what a lot of these people they have antibiotic resistant infection. So we’ll test them and guess what the SIBO situation is still going on. Maybe they have parasites or like you said, there’s a fungal overgrowth component to it as well, their guts leaky, their guts inflamed. Now they’ve got all sorts of other problems as a side effect of hitting this Rifaximin. In some cases, it can help maybe play whack a mole a little, it may knock some things down, but they still have enough problem when they come to us that we need further work. So I get frustrated with this integrative idea. Because and I know there’s good intention behind it. But as you mentioned, with that model, the way the model exists, it doesn’t doesn’t allow enough time and there’s not enough advanced testing, like we’re doing to to fully get to the bottom of it

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. And once you kind of talk to your conventional medical doctor, and you say, hey, walk me through your thinking on what you think the root cause of this could be. Usually it kind of reveals their that they really don’t know. Because if you’re just providing a drug to treat the symptoms, well, obviously, they’re not worried about the root cause because it’s Band Aid down below, right? So we kind of look at everything in my line, kind of as the SSS approach, right? You have the underlying stressors here, could be physical stress, chemical stress, emotional stress, food allergies, bacterial overgrowth, sibo, right, all of these stressors, increase our stress bucket, and then the body systems start to dysfunction, hormones, digestion, immune detoxification, as the system starts to dysfunction, then you have all this, the symptoms happen down below. And so conventional medicine just band aids, these symptoms down below, they don’t ever go upstream. So you got to have conversations with your doctors that talk more about the upstream issues. And so we try to nullify all of the underlying stressors, make sure foods good chewings, good, hydrations. Good. And then we’re going to do tests that look at the function of the systems. So it’s a lot different of approach. So if you’re working with someone, you know, you want to be able to ask the right questions, what do you think the underlying root causes are, and as a patient, make sure you walk into it with an open mind that there’s probably not one underlying issue, it’s probably a bunch of things that are spread out, that are part of the underlying cause, from a stress standpoint, and the body system standpoint that are emanating the symptoms downstream?

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said Well said, that’s a great, great visualization, and you have permission to have 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 things going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the key, that’s that that’s the missing assumption, you could have a lot of different things. And then as you walk through with the clinician, and you’re making changes, you need to not go into it as Oh, I made this diet change and the supplement, I don’t feel better yet. It’s okay. There’s always a plan B, a Plan C, a plan D, a plan E. And if the answers down here, and E and F and you, you quit and get discouraged that B and C, then you never get a chance to kind of go deeper. So just as patients are listening here, always make sure you have that ability to kind of just like, have a good attitude and keep on progressing down the line.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and you can’t blame them on me. This is the way that people have been conditioned over decades and decades of conventional medicine, but it still does frustrate me when someone will approach us whether it’s a friend or a family member or something and they’ll say, Hey, you know, I’ve got autoimmune. I’ve got sjogrens or I’ve got alopecia or I’ve got, you know, diabetes type two. What’s wrong with me? Like, why did this happen? Where did this come from? It’s like, Where do I even start? You stay up till 1am? You posted a picture the other day on your Facebook page? Have you eating an ice cream Sunday? Yeah, never get exercise. I know what you do. You sit all day, you don’t get outside and you’ve never had a tan in your life. So you’re afraid of the sun. If you do go outside, you lather yourself in sunscreen chemicals. You don’t eat organic, you’re super stressed. I mean, you know, so when people ask, well, what’s wrong? Why is this happening? It’s almost like, Oh, are you ready for this? Because I’m about to open up Pandora’s box here. And I’m going to tell you 20 things of what’s happening, I’m gonna tell you 30 things of why this has happened to you. So it’s just a reeducation really, of telling people look, it’s there’s not a one smoking gun, rarely to you and I find one smoking gun.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, I 100% agree. It’s nice every now and then where you kind of get a home run and functional medicine, when you kind of make a couple of changes. And it’s like boom, and you blast it out of the park. It’s always a good luck little ego check. Because you know, you work with a lot of difficult patients over over time. And so it’s nice to get a couple of home runs every now and then. But if you work with a good clinician that has the right algorithm and kind of goes through the things goes to the options that give you the greatest chance of success out of the gates, and then work to the things that give you the less success at the end, then you have the greatest chance of success as a patient early on. And you set the foundation for greater healing over time. So I think that’s really the most important mindset is clinically go with the high percenter options.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and I’m not being a bully here. And I’m not making First of these people, I’m just saying, we really need to re education. You know, you you people eventually come out of the woodwork at at you when you and I do what we do and they’re not ready for the red pill. They’re not you know, they’ll ask what’s wrong me? Why do I have diabetes? Or why do I have this headache? It’s like, ah, are you ready? Are you ready? Because there’s there’s a lot to uncover. There’s a lot to unpack.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think most people once they’ve kind of gone through the conventional medicine model, and they’ve kind of said, Hey, all right, well, I just don’t want to be relying on laxatives or enemas my whole life. What’s next? Usually, once there’s, they kind of have this level of like, okay, these are the only options I have from conventional medicine. There’s a level of openness that occurs from that, where they’re like, Alright, what’s next? What’s next? I’d see functional medicine and nutrition is helping people all the time, what’s next outside of this because they just kind of have this yearning that there’s got to be something more. And I think that’s creates a level of openness and readiness to. 

Evan Brand: Good point. Good point. Yeah. I often say people have to hit rock bottom or they have to be miserable enough to listen, I mean, you and I’ve heard countless stories of husbands and wives that are stubborn and they want to eat the pizza while the other spouse has to eat the grass fed steak and sweet potato that grass fed steak sweet potato tastes better anyway. So I don’t know what they’re doing. But But anyway, they’ve got to have their own issue right? And then finally, once the other person once they get miserable enough, then finally they’re they’re willing and you don’t have to drag them into this whole thing as much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I totally agree. Well, if you guys are listening, and you enjoy the podcast here, put your comments down below. Really appreciate the thumbs up and a share. We also reviews are great JustinHealth.com/iTunes, EvanBrand.com/iTunes. It’s great. If you feel free to head over to EvanBrand.com you can schedule an appointment with Evan anywhere in the world. Vice versa with myself Dr. J at JustinHealth.com. We’re here to help y’all. And I appreciate you guys listening and just feel free to share this content with some friends or family that can benefit. Again, we’re clinicians that have had 10s of thousands of patients experience kind of combined, and we want to provide actionable information with y’all so you can take action and get your health back in your hands. So we really appreciate you guys being listeners and attending. 

Evan Brand: Take great care yourself. We’ll be back next week. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-root-causes-of-constipation-slow-motility-podcast-331

The Gut Skin Connection – How Your Gut Health Can Impact Your Skin | Podcast #330

The gut and skin enjoy a constant dialogue via what has become known as gut-skin axis. In this video, Dr. J and Evan are discussing that while symptoms of gut health issues can be incredibly varied, the skin is often a great barometer for what’s going on inside the gut.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:51    Different Skin Aspects

5:37    Getting Good Skin

13:12   How Gut affects Skin Health

20:28  Collagen Benefits

28:52  Tips to Remember

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Youtube-icon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VizOZ1ZMo6g

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here today we’re going to be talking about the gut skin connection, how your gut health can impact your skin. This is a, you know, quite a big topic of discussion. A lot of my patients have gut health hormone health. And part of that whole sequelae of symptoms is going to be skin issues. And it’s important right skin kind of is your first representation to the world of who you are and your health. And if you’re healthy, you want good skin as a byproduct. So we’re going to dive into that and talk about, you know, things you can do to improve your skin and your gut health. If it’s not at an optimal level, Evan, how are we doing today, my friend? 

Evan Brand: Doing really well. And you’re right, when you see someone your initial gut reaction, you know, they say, Don’t judge a book by its cover. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pun intended.

Evan Brand: Exactly. When you look at somebody, you go, oh, wow, they don’t look healthy, or they look pale, or they look frail. Or they look weak. I mean, we make a lot of quick judgments on people. So you know, for the people listening that are like, well, I don’t really care about my vanity, you know, that’s so vain or whatever. It’s like, Well, do you want a good paying job? Do you want a good spouse? You know, you might not even get to the second date. If the person looks at you and goes, Oh, wow, you know, this person looks unhealthy. They look sickly. So I think it’s, it’s important to try to go beyond feeling vain about it and know that as you mentioned, your skin is it’s it’s a picture of your health picture. And my skin was a really good barometer. For me going through some of my detox protocols, my wife would look at me and say, Honey, you look pale, and I would go take a binder and then all of a sudden my skin tone would get better. It was almost like I was recirculating toxins. And then when I took my liver detox or binder support, my skin looked better. So for me, I kind of personally use it as a barometer. Or if I eat dairy as a treat, I may see acne pop up and I’m like, Oh, look at that. Look what I did. Here’s the effect of that dairy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, totally. Yeah. And the pre show, we were trying to figure out effect versus a fact. Right? And so effect is the end result. A fact is, is the verb so we’re trying to wrap our heads around that the English language is quite the the crazy thing. So yeah, absolutely. So skin is very important. So there’s a lot of different aspects of skin right? Its first aspect is, you know, just keeping acne and skin rashes under control, whether it’s psoriasis, or eczema, or just general acne, there’s different food allergens that can have effect on that. There’s different enzyme and acid and just indigestion with foods, not breaking them down, that can have a big effect on that. And there can also be things like hormones. So whether it’s elevations in testosterone with women, whether it’s, you know, testosterone, androgens, that can have a major impact on women’s skin. Also just inflammation in general food allergens, in general, high levels of insulin can create more oil from that sebaceous gland. And that sebaceous gland, that oil can feed a lot of the bacteria on the skin, which can create, obviously the acne vulgaris bacteria feeding and creating acne. So there’s a lot of different mechanisms, right. So when you look at skin health or anything, is a lot of different components. And so food allergies are one component in digestion, not enough acid and enzymes, a component and of course, things like H. pylori, and bacterial overgrowth and fungal overgrowth, and parasitic infections can all impact that. And then of course, female hormones can play a big role. estrogen dominance is a big thing. Insulin resistance is a big thing. Insulin resistance can feed excess androgens and women, that’s a big thing. And then of course, increase aromatization. And estrogen in men can also feed skin issues as well. So there’s a lot of different connections here that play a big role. And of course, certain nutrients, if you’re deficient in zinc or vitamin A, can also play a big role in skin health as well. And then, of course, poor detoxification, because your skin is the integumentary system. And it plays a major role in detoxifying. So the biggest organ of detoxification in the body. So there’s a lot of different mechanisms here. And we’ll kind of dive through them one by one.

Evan Brand: Imagine how much profit we could reduce from the makeup industry. If Well, I guess it would be a multifactorial process, right. And number one, you’d have to convince women that natural skin is beautiful, and that you don’t need the six inch long eyelashes and all that. But imagine how much of a hit we could put into the makeup industry if we were to improve people’s skin because you have so many women that they’ll say oh, well, I wake up with bags under my eyes. It’s like, well, it’s not the bags that are the problem that needs to be covered up by makeup. Those bags under the eyes are the clue that maybe there’s some lymphatic issues or there’s some detoxification issues. And so many women, yeah, food allergies. You’re right. I mean, I have so many women that report that just by working through some of the protocols that you and I use that they need less makeup, and of course their husbands are always wanting women to look more natural anyway, at least my wife, I look at her and I’m like wow, she’s naturally pretty, I don’t think you need or should be putting stuff on. So and of course, there’s the mental brainwashing of society and the psychology behind makeup and all that that we don’t have to get into. But I think from a biochemical perspective, women should embrace the way they look and use that as a motivating factor. to work on these underlying issues that we’re talking about, meaning don’t just go for the foundation or whatever, it’s called to cover up the bags, let’s fix the bags.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and ideally you get healthier so if you want like a natural healthy makeup option, there’s some decent ones out there, you need less of it to kind of get the job done. You know, because some women it’s, it’s, it’s part of who they are is they’ve been doing it for so long. So let’s just try to reduce it and try to use healthier ones that are going to be less toxic, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah, and the Environmental Working Group will just get that out of the way now the Environmental Working Group has done a great job of their skin deep database you and I’ve covered that I know you’ve mentioned some of the micelle products and some of these others that that are that are helpful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I like the Marie Veronique has a couple other good companies from a skincare standpoint. So the first rule of thumb when you’re supporting your skin is do with food. Right? Don’t put toxins and food allergies, fix your gut. Use good nutrient dense foods right your skin needs high quality fats. It needs high quality amino acids. It needs collagen in each vitamin A it needs zinc. It needs a lot of good nutrient dense foods to support it. We also want to decrease inflammation right? A lot of the junky omega six fatty acids, trans fats, foods that are refined processed grains lots of sugar that drives insulin. Insulin feeds the sebaceous glands to make oil oil can feed bacteria on the skin and create acne. And then of course, food allergens can also drive eczema can also drive psoriasis, sub harangued dermatitis right, a lot of these things that are fungal or bacterial or autoimmune base can be driven by a lot of these things. So foods really important. And again, there’s a big disconnect in the dermatology community, like you go to a lot of conventional dermatology offices, they’ll say in some of the pamphlets like food does not influence your skin. And that’s an absolute crock of crap. Right. And part of the reason why that’s the case is because dermatologists aren’t educated in nutrition. They’re not doctors in medical school, conventional allopathic doctors have very little education and nutrition. And when they do, it’s primarily from the aspect of disease, vitamin connection, right? scurvy, but low vitamin C very, very low B one, right? A lot of these diseases that are connected to low nutrient levels. But we know health is not about diseases, it’s about a health is on a continuum. And so the extreme end is a disease but there’s a lot of stuff in between, that we’re looking at. And part of that could be skin issues. And so certain nutrients play a big role. And I can tell you having seen 1000s of patients and hundreds who have skin issues, and I’ve been able to have you know 95 99% resolution with these issues, partly because of the fact that diet plays a major influence. So foods, keeping carbohydrates in check reducing insulin, insulin and women drives lots of androgens, androgens will create more cystic acne, inflammation, even dairy like even sometimes butter in really healthy people could be a problem. So I always say anytime you have any acne issues, we’re cutting out 100% dairy, even carry gold grass fed butter out of the gates. And that’ll be one of the first things we try to add back in as the skin gets clear to see if it’s kryptonite or not. But that plays a very important role. I’m trying to get more zinc in your diet, whether it’s like pumpkin seeds or oysters or just high quality grass fed beef zincs very important can always throw in some extra zinc in your molti or in a zinc lozenges things are very important for the skin vitamin A very important some studies back in the 1920s on to dermatologists called Pillsbury and Stokes and they found that probiotics and called Never Oil were very important for skin health. This is 100 years ago. So the fact that dermatologists aren’t up on this literature is just ridiculous. It’s because they aren’t interested in a nutritional intervention. When you have retinae and clindamycin and Accutane and tetracycline and, and different, and you chrissa and you know, all these different medications that are used for skin, right, that’s what their go to is and that’s what they’re educated on. And it doesn’t fix any of the problems anyway, it’s it covers it up. And so a lot of other things that can be done and have been done for a very long time.

Evan Brand: It’s funny that you and I are not dermatologists, but that we have, in most cases, better results than dermatology offices. And at least if it were a comparable success rate, like with their drugs, that’s palliative care. And what we’re doing is root cause care. So maybe if you took Joe Blow and Jane Doe over here, and let’s say they work through you and I and our protocols and testing, and then they go to the dermatology office and just get the Accutane or whatever, maybe in terms of look, maybe you’d make the person look similar because those drugs do work. But then you get off of them and things go backward. But man, all I’m saying is I think we’re better at skin now. I don’t know how to recognize melanoma. My grandfather’s had it and he’s got it cut out. So in those skin cases, yeah, go to your dermatology office. But if it’s more of these chronic issues, these more functional scan issues. I tell you, we’re gonna have much, much better results and somebody listening may hear what you said and go oh my god, he said 95 to 99% success rate. You’re not you’re not inflating those numbers. at all, I can tell you with confidence those numbers are legit that you’re saying because I’ve seen the same thing, even within just six weeks of Gut protocol, sometimes we’ve had 80 to 90% improvement in skin symptoms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think dermatologists do a really good job at handling skin cancers. You know, I think that can be very helpful picking up melanomas. There’s also a lot of the autoimmune stuff that they recognize, it’s typically you know, they’re just going to recommend corticosteroids or some kind of, you know, immunosuppressant like Ella dal or you chrissa. They’ve done a lot of options, or they’re just throwing a lot of antibiotics on the skin, which can screw up your skin microbiome as well, your skin has its own microbiome. So some of these things acutely may be fine. If you have a teenage kid that has an acne flare, and you want to decrease the chance of scarring, right? That makes sense. But you know, what’s the long term solution, right, you need a long term solution outside of that, and they may not have those options for you. So it’s good to have someone in your back pocket know where they’re good know whether or not there’s getting to be more holistic ones out there that understand diet plays a big, big role. And that’s good to know. I mean, I think, you know, if, if your kid eats like crap, and your dermatologist says it doesn’t matter, and then that keeps your kids acne flaring. Well, that’s not going to fix any problems. And plus, we know skin requires nutrition, amino acids, fat soluble vitamins. So just kind of from like a foundational level, you need to consume good building blocks. So your body can repair and turn over and use those good building blocks to help your body becomes stronger, right. Food and calories that you consume and nutrients you consume. They’re not just for energy, they’re actual building blocks so your skin can turn over. So very important there. I think also with sunlight and things like that getting some sunlight don’t burn, right, minimal urothelial dose, if you’re going to go outside, make sure you’re using you know, for a long periods of time where you would burn make sure you’re doing a full spectrum sunscreen that’s in a block out UVA and UVB for a long time, we’ve only blocked out UVB light, and we let a lot of UVA come in and people will damage their skin because the collagen will get destroyed. If you’re chronically allowing a lot of UVA exposure, the UVB that gives you the burn is kind of the it tells you whether or not you’re out there too long. But if you block the B and allow the A in, you’re basically allowing yourself to potentially destroy collagen. So if you’re going to be out in the sun, use a full spectrum, UVA UVB maybe even a UVC to make sure you have coverage if you would get burned, and then try to get yourself some sunlight. And then for me topically, I’m going to be using some natural retinol not a lot of the retina the retina has a lot of side effects can create redness and irritation, don’t love it. But I’ll use some of the retinol with some vitamin C and glue to fire and in some of the skincare products that I use, I use a really excellent prebiotic probiotic miss that have good bacteria for my skin. Because I want to really support my skin microbiome. Those are really important things for me on the skincare side. And then of course, like keeping the food allergies down. Now, for some people coming out that have a lot of acne, we’re going to come out of the gates with some autoimmune stuff out of the gates because I’ve seen eggs and nuts and seeds, dairy and butter be problem. So we’re going to be a little bit more strict out of the gates. We’re going to make sure we’re digesting our foods really well indigestion is a problem. We’re going to look at the gut, the gut can play a major, major role. And I’ll pause there and you can you can kind of dive a little bit. 

Evan Brand: Sure. Yeah, I’ll take it further. So the gut, to me, the big mechanism is h pylori. Now parasites are big. I mean, you saw my skin was six, maybe I can’t keep up with yours, maybe six or seven years ago, my skin was messed up. And it was because I had various gut infections. I do believe parasites are a big contributor. But really, it’s hard to pick a smoking gun for the gut, because Candida bacterial overgrowth, parasites, they all contribute to the same thing, which is an issue with nutrient absorption, they create this malabsorption problem. But I think h polarize is one of the big ones for people because of what it’s doing with the parietal cells and reducing your stomach acid because then what’s really happening is you have this domino effect of the H pylori, then allowing the purification of your food which then creates the overgrowth of even more pathogenic bacteria, which then may allow parasites to thrive because now there’s not enough stomach acid to kill them off. So I really do think that h pylori was one of my big variables for my skin. And I can tell you with confidence that I’ve seen it in countless countless teenagers and people in their 20s that are still dealing with acne. If we get rid of H. pylori alone, we may have 60 to 75% improvement in the skin just based on that. And then the question is, well, can you bring in enzymes to help reduce some of the malabsorption and 99% of the cases? Yes, rarely is there too much inflammation or gutter rotation where we don’t do enzymes and acids out of the gate. But really, if I were a dermatologist running a brick and mortar practice, you know what I’d have on my shelf, I’d have digestive enzymes, and every client that comes in with skin problems, here’s your enzymes, and that would fix it. 

Enzymes and HCl as long as there’s not so much gastritis or gut irritation, definitely a combination of the two for sure. I 100%. Agree and then a good elimination diet plays a big role. These you know, if you have bags under your eyes, that’s called allergic shiners and allergic shiners. They’re basically a pool of the lymph under the iron because there’s a lot of lymph in this area. And so lymphatic increase lymphatic fluid increase is going to happen with inflammation. Think about if you bump your head or get in a fight and get a black guy, what happens there’s inflammation and pulling, while you’re doing that at a at a micro level when you have inflammation from food, and you’re going to see it in the eye area, because that’s where there’s a lot of lymph. So if you’re having allergic shiners, right, don’t carve it up with makeup, try to cut out the foods out of the gates, that’s gonna be a big one out of the gates. Make sure you’re consuming enough water, people that have chronically dry skin, it’s not a hydration issue. Remember, fats provide a lot of the moisture to your skin to be moist and not overly dry. So if you’re having a lot of chronic dry skin, you know, eat consume good water, right, but also really make sure your fats are up and make sure you’re digesting those fats that’s really important. And if you want to topically add some shea butter or some coconut oil to your skin, if it’s the winter and you’re in a really, really low humidity environment, you know, you may need to topically add a little bit of that to during the winter months if it when it’s drier out. So you may want to topically hit it. But you don’t want to get into the habit of only doing the topicals because you got to support your skin inside and out.

You know what’s amazing now that you mentioned it like that. When my wife and I first got together, it will be 11 years ago, our diet was not like it is today. And every winner her and I both we would get really itchy our skin would get red, we get really dry skin. I’m telling you, man, I did not put lotion on but maybe once this entire winter. And I used to have to do that all the time. How funny is that? We could put the lotion industry out of business with this advice too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, you may topically need to add a little bit but you’ll be able to reduce the 80 to 90%. I remember when I was first trying to get healthy 15 20 years ago, 15 years ago, I was trying to low fat thing. I’m the gates and I remember one winner, my skin was so itchy and dry. And I remember I came across an article and I started adding in coconut oil and an olive oil. And I was just doing a tablespoon of a day and I remember being like Wow, my skin the dryness just it reduced at 90% with just internally adding fats, because I’m thinking like oh dryness, that just means more water, right, you need more water, but you need to be able to carry that water to the skin. And the fats provide that kind of support, the fats help bring that hydration to the skin. And so fats for me played a huge role. And I’ve seen that as well. And of course with all this fat phobia, the more dry your skin gets. That means the more inflamed is going to get the more inflamed the more redness and and and potential for other issues are going to happen. So if you don’t have enough fats on your skin that can create this cascade of a lot of other skin issues.

Evan Brand: Well, you know what else is I’ve noticed too, you know, Irish descent, at least some Irish some German. And years ago, I would never be able to get tan, I would just straight burn. And I rarely wear sunscreen, maybe you advise me different. But I typically just wear like a big sun hat in the summer. If it’s like 95 degrees and it’s frickin hot. I might do some zinc oxide if I’m out all day, but if I’m just out like half an hour plane in the garden, and then I’m gonna head back in and cook lunch or something I’m not putting sunscreen on I’m just out there with no shirt. And I used to just burn so bad even from that dose. Now, I don’t burn. The fats are helping me not burn now. Maybe it’s the meats to the collagen. I mean, there’s something changing where I just, I can I can bronze now, which is pretty interesting, especially for an Irish guy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the fats definitely play a big role and helping to bring calcium to the skin that can be I’ve seen that be something also having a lot more of the bioflavonoids whether it’s Grapeseed, or a lot of the antioxidants, those can go to the skin and also have an SPF kind of factor. I know Grapeseed extract plays a big role. A lot of these oligomeric proanthocyanidins, which are like these antioxidants, and in fruits and vegetables can play a big role. The fats, like I mentioned, the omega threes play a big role.

Evan Brand: Oh, you make a good point. Yeah, sorry, I forgot to I forgot to mention that. Yeah, I mean, I do a ton of blueberries like come spring, early summer, I’m doing a ton of blueberries, I think you’re right, there’s probably some antioxidant factor too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Antioxidant factor, there’s a good fat factor, the fast to play a big role with bringing calcium up to the skin, which I know helps. And then obviously having enough zinc plays a big role because we typically, the more natural skincare is going to use like zinc oxide or titanium dioxide for kind of natural sun scare sun skincare. And so of course that that has a deflective aspect to it. And I imagine that the zinc that you consume orally is also going to play a big role. So like in summer months, you know, I’ll bang down six to eight oysters in a week. And you’re getting you know, eight milligrams of zinc per oyster. So if you bang down eight or nine oysters, I mean you’re getting 70 or 80 milligrams of zinc and you know the daily requirements only like 10 so you can get like a week’s worth of your zinc in one oyster session.

Evan Brand: Wow, that’s impressive.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so it’s really good and you can also get some extra from pumpkin seeds too as long as you tolerate the seeds.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I actually had some pumpkin seeds yesterday they were good just some I got some sprouted ones supposedly those are easier to digest so if someone reacts, maybe tried to sprout it I personally don’t have an issue either way. So some one thing to consider Alright, so we hit the gut infection piece. You did great hitting on some of the nutrients Stephen some of the good nutrients that would be in a multi which you and I make some really professional multis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright guys, you’re gonna have 20 or 30 milligrams of zinc in there. So that kind of gives you a good whack and then if you’re adding in, you know, mushrooms or grass fed beef, right or any some of the healthier nuts and seeds that are out there, that and obviously, that’s gonna play a big role and then collagen, collagen really helps because we’re just not getting a lot of collagen based amino acids, right, we’re getting a lot of muscle meat, we’re not getting a lot of skin or joint. So having the skin on your chicken or chicken thighs very helpful, right having soups or bone broth helps. And you can also really take an excellent collagen amino acid support. I know mine, we use collagen from grass fed cows and we also use proteolytic enzymes to help break down those amino acids to make it easy and you can mix them in your water you can mix them in your tea or your soup or your coffee. So it’s just a great way to get extra building blocks for your skin. And it also helps your hair and your nails and your joints.

Evan Brand: I was speaking to college and let me do a little rant here and an anti plug. So the bulletproof collagen bars I used to eat those. Dave Asprey is bulletproof company, who he was the CEO of and then he stepped down couple years ago and now the ex or current CEO of hostess who makes like ding dongs now he’s the CEO in charge of bulletproof product. Anyway, I was at Whole Foods a couple weeks ago, I used to love eating those collagen, like the collagen bars, you know, it’s like a hydrolyzed collagen with like a little bit of stevia or monk fruit in there with some organic cashews. And I go in there, and there’s a new box, and it’s like new and improved recipe and I’m like, Yes, this is gonna be delicious. And I didn’t even read it because I just thought, okay, it’s gonna be awesome, right, you know, and I get home and I start to eat it. And it’s like real slimy. And it used to be kind of crumbly. I’m like, What’s weird wise, it’s slimy. Maybe I got a bad batch or something. And I flip it around, I look at the label. And it’s no longer organic cashews. Now it’s just regular cashews. And then now there’s safflower oil, which Dave was extremely anti bad oils. So now there’s safflower oil in there. And there was one other thing that tripped me out. But yeah, so safflower oil from organic to non organic nuts. And then there was one other thing. So luckily, I was able to return them and get a refund. But that used to be my go to thing that I’d recommend for people to get a good easy source of collagen as a snack, and I can no longer recommend that product.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah, I had an experience to where I bought a mainstream collagen brand at Whole Foods, I have my own called Tru collagen, but I ran out. And I needed something right away, because I typically put it in my coffee or tea in the morning. And I grabbed the you know, good one, or named a brand that everyone will recommend put it in my coffee and my coffee tasted sour as heck. And I’m like, this is unflavored what’s going on. And basically, there’s two ways you can manufacture collegen. Of course, like you buy the best raw material you can, but then you got to break that cut, you know that collagen into peptides, right. And so there’s two ways you can do it. You can do it with sulfuric acid, or you can do it with enzymes. And so mine we do it with enzymes, which gives it a very, very neutral taste. So when you mix it and stuff, there’s not an extra taste. But this brand, I guess had used sulfuric acid because that’s the major side effect is you get that little bit of sourness or a little bit of a bitter aftertaste when you mix it and things. Now it’s like, oh, okay, got it, even though it’s unflavored. And you don’t see anything in the ingredients. You know, how you extract those, how you extract those amino acids matters, and it can really affect the taste.

Evan Brand: Wow. So I’d love to put them on blast. But if you don’t want to, that’s fine. And we’ll just tell people that storebought is not the best. And there’s a reason that Justin and I have professional healthcare manufacturers. And there’s a reason that what we have is considered a practitioner grade, you know, I get kind of annoyed when, when people will market supplements as like pharmaceutical grade because pharmaceuticals are crap. They’re filled with corn and fillers and all kinds of garbage. So when I see like, you know, pharmaceutical grade, like vitamin C, it’s like, ah, get out of here with that crap. So I would just prefer that we use the term professional, professional quality. And that’s not bs marketing. That truly is a difference.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, when people say pharmaceutical grade, because there can still be a lot of crap and pharmaceuticals, it’s more like the cleanliness of the factory or the manufacturing facility is very clean. But you could still add a whole bunch of crap into the supplement that’s not clean. But because the the manufacturing process is clean. It’s it’s pharmaceutical grade, right? And so yeah, so it’s professional grade, because we’re also cutting out all of the extra crap that we know isn’t going to be as good fillers, dyes, corn, you know, potential glutens all those different things that aren’t not going to be as good so for sure we keep all that in consideration and then We also do testing, right? I mean, we, I tested bunches of ashwagandha from major, you know, manufacturing people that we get it in and we test it and it’s got lead in it, we’re like nope, see later, you know, because we need to have the highest quality of product because we’re working with patients and we need to, we need to have a clinical outcome. It’s not just selling something and making some money, I need a clinical outcome, I need the highest quality because that matters, the outcome really matters. So you’re 100% right on that professional grade, so where to go. So we talked about collagen, I think low hanging fruit anyone, you could always do tablespoon of cod liver oil a day, tablespoon or two across the world, the vitamin A, and there’s excellent central fatty acids really good at eating high quality animal products is obviously going to be great. If you’re not doing high quality animal products, we’ll fix your digestion. But you could always do some seafood. If you can do that, you could always do some egg yolks, you could do that. You could also do some nuts and seeds, as long as you can tolerate them, especially the pumpkin seeds can be really good or chia seeds can be really good, or at least some algae on that side of the fence can be great. And then I would say make sure you’re pooping every day, make sure your bowels are regular. If you’re not going every day, you can be reabsorbing a lot of toxins in your gut. And if you have a lot of bacterial overgrowth, what happens? The bad bacteria Creek creates an enzyme called beta glucuronidation, this enzyme de conjugates metabolize estrogen. So what happens is you bind these proteins to estrogen. And these proteins are that you’re basically conjugating you’re binding this protein, and that allows you to excrete these hormones. And this enzyme comes in their ad conjugates. It breaks the handcuffs and allows those hormones to go back into general circulation. And so it’s possible that bad bacteria can really create hormonal imbalances. And if you’re a female, and you have potential estrogen dominance, that can be part of what’s going on. And so estrogen dominance can drive hyperpigmentation and skin issues as well. So you got to be on top of that. And of course, if you’re taking the birth control pill, you can almost guarantee that you’re going to be in that estrogen dominant state as well, because you have all this synthetic typically ethanol estradiol in your bloodstream as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. So we technically could have called this something like the SIBO hormone skin connection or something, but it is all connected. And we do find that when you get gut infections resolve skin’s better. And also, when like you mentioned, you’re knocking out the gut infections, you’re able to lower the beta glucuronidation. And now that pathway, the glucuronidation pathway works more efficiently. And then you get other toxins out to like mold toxin. So you can have skin issues with mold toxin, I certainly did. And that’s because we know that mold toxin can affect the gut barrier, mold can create leaky gut. So if you are treating the infections, you don’t get that toxin out to you’re not fully out of the woods. And in regards to testing, let’s mention that real quick. And then we can wrap up. So if you’re working with somebody like Dr. Justin and I what we’re going to be doing is a GI map stool test or similar, we’re going to be using organic acids testing, maybe some hormone profiles, and maybe some other toxin profiles. So with urine and stool, we can get so much information into this. And your dermatologist is never going to run a stool test. They’re never going to run an organic acids test and find that you have clusters and Candida and strep and klebsiella, Giardia and H pylori and give you herbals to kill it herbal antibiotics antifungals. That’s never the protocol. So I’m not saying don’t go to them. I’m just saying if you want root cause solutions. These are the types of tests and solutions you need to implement. Not a topical steroids, which is exactly what my wife got prescribed when she had a lot of issues. They did a good job with testing, but it was a patch test. And they found that she was reacting to some parabens and all the garbage that was in her conventional skincare products at the time. So they at least did a good job of testing that. But they never tested the actual body. They just tested the chemicals. They didn’t go and say hey, what are the deeper underlying issues? Oh, you’ve got poor methylation poor detox function. You’re not pooping. You’re pooping once every three days. They don’t go into that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, 100% you know, so we got to try to get to the root underlying issue. The problem is when you do steroids, you also weaken your connective tissue, you weaken the skin, and then it sets you up for more dependency. And then it also weakens the immune system and it could also create more blood sugar imbalances, especially if you’re having to use a lot of steroids. And that blood sugar, guess what, that can increase insulin and increase insulin increases what more sebum oil production, potentially more acne. So a lot of times these medicine medications can create a vicious cycle. So you got to be very, very careful with that. So out of the gates, kind of what’s the Reader’s Digest version, work on the diet, work on your carbohydrates, work on certain nutrients, fat soluble vitamins work on digesting your protein, adding college and adding vitamin A and zinc. Get your gut looked at work with a good functional practitioner. If the low hanging fruit things aren’t working? Right, it’s okay to you know, stop guessing and assess what is going on. Also, put your comments down below. Let us know things that have already helped you in the past. I’m curious to know, let us know your successes. Also feel free and share this information with friends or family that are suffering or dealing with issues and want to dive into the next step or want to do deeper testing into it. Give us a thumbs up, I really appreciate it. And we’ll put our links down below you want to reach out to Evan EvanBrand.com, great place to go. You can schedule with Evan worldwide, as well as myself, Dr. J JustinHealth.com. As well, we’ll put links underneath as well where you guys can review our podcast, we appreciate your feedback. This helps us to help more people. So if you’re enjoying this information right now, give us a quick review just a sentence or two, let us know if we’re doing good. And if we’re not give us some feedback, we always want to do better, Evan, anything else you want to highlight?

Evan Brand: Yeah, if people are just sitting there like maybe they’re like halfway awake, or they’re daydreaming, snap back into reality, review us, we will love you forever. We really do need the reviews, it helps us beat out other people. You know, we don’t do ads on this show. Maybe one day I’ll go back to doing some if I have a good partner that we work with again, but for now, this is a non ad show. And so many other shows are just filled with it. You just have to put up with the spam, we try to give you guys all killer, no filler. So I hope you recognize that. Take the two seconds go on your your app. for iPhone users, it’s probably the easiest. That’s the best place to review us on your Apple podcast app, see the show, click write a review. Boom, give us the stars you think we deserve? Give us a few comments. It really helps motivate us, you know this kind of a thankless job, you’ll get hundreds of thousands of downloads and then maybe two people are like, yeah, that was a good episode. So we really want to hear it. And we really appreciate it. It’s what keeps us fueled up and just mentioned the links, don’t hesitate to reach out. We’re going to save you more time and more money. Yes, you got to pay to play, so to speak to get labs and console’s done, but I tell you if I knew what I know now, man, I could have saved myself years of suffering with my skin issues throughout high school. I mean, I just had, it wasn’t the worst that wasn’t the pizza face, kid. But I certainly have my my issues with acne. And man, if I would have been able to get it dialed in now like we do for some of our kids and teenagers that you and I work with. Wow. And we’re literally changing the trajectory of their entire life. It doesn’t go this is like I said the beginning. This is beyond the vanity. I mean, I had a kid in California who’s 17 and now that his skin is so much better he’s so much more confident he got a promotion at work so he’s making more money. He’s feeling better he’s got a new partner so he’s you know, he’s he’s with a female now and he was previously too like embarrassed to to want to date anyone. So I mean this this could affect everything. Career finances, this is not just how you look in the mirror. So I want people to go beyond that and think about how much more could you achieve if your skin was better? And I think the sky’s the limit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, also scanning god are intimately connected. If you have skin issues, you may not be breaking things down. You may be gassy. You may be bloated. So look within right above below inside out. Alright guys, hope you enjoyed today’s podcast. Really appreciate it. Share, care, thumbs up review links below.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-gut-skin-connection-how-your-gut-health-can-impact-your-skin

Recommended products:

TruKeto Collagen

TRUCOLLAGEN (Grassfed)

La Roche-Posay Lipikar Cream

Mother of all cream


The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.