What are the Natural Anti-Inflammatory Agents for Pain Relief
In general, we have our COX pathways. Now, Arachidonic acid can feed those pathways. A lot of excess, junky, refined Omega-6 from animal products can definitely feed those pathways. That sets the table like gas in the kitchen where a little spark can take it off.
Where to find anti-inflammatory agents:
- Natural herbs like ginger can help with COX-1.
- Fish oil is excellent for COX-2 at high doses. If you do high doses of fish oil, you can increase what’s called lipid peroxidation because fish oil is a polyunsaturated fatty acid. It’s more unstable. It’s got more double bonds in it. Omega-3 means three double bonds. The more double bonds that are they are, the more unstable the fatty acid is to heat things like that and the more, let’s say it can be oxidized. So, having extra vitamin C or extra vitamin D on board when you’re taking extra fish oil just to make sure you don’t have oxidation is great, and we already talked about things like systemic enzymes.
- There is also curcumin but liposomal curcumin is better due to the absorption or something with black pepper in it helps with absorption, too.
- Frankincense or Boswellia.
- White willow bark which is kind of how aspirin is naturally made though aspirin works more on COX-1. So, aspirin can be your other natural source and you can do white willow bark which is the natural form of aspirin.
- There are things like Tylenol but Tylenol works more on the central nervous system perception. So, it decreases the nervous systems’ perception of pain. Note: We have to be careful of Tylenol as it can actually chronically reduce glutathione. So, if you’re taking Tylenol longer-term, you definitely want to take it with NAC and/or some glutathione, just to be on the safe side.
- At the extreme example, we have opiates which block pain receptors in the brain, the opiate perception of the brain. It’s not the best thing because you’re just decreasing perception of pain. Obviously, the opiates are way more addictive.
- We can block some of these natural pain perceptions with CBD oil. So, CBD is another great way to reduce the perception of pain.
In general, we want you to try to do more of the herbals and more of the natural stuff out of the gates because that really, really, really can help reduce inflammation.
If you have osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, sports injury, or you’re just trying to heal maybe postoperation, these things may be something to implement and then obviously work in all the other root causes, too. You are not just what you eat. You are what you digest from what you eat.
So, if you’re doing all these good nutrients, but you’ve got some type of malabsorption issue in the gut, you’ve got ridges on your fingernails, you’ve got thinning hair or falling out here, you may need to look deeper at the gut and try to find some of these more root cause issues that led you to that amount of inflammation or slow recovery in the first place.
Role of Functional Medicine in Mental Health | Podcast #326
As an adult, maybe you’re struggling with some of these symptoms yourself, things like anxiety, perhaps depression or mood issues, those types of things. Or many of you have kids with these types of mental health symptoms and problems. Functional Medicine is a form of integrative medicine that focuses on addressing the root causes of a person’s symptoms rather than merely treating the symptoms themselves and, in this case, manage stress. Here are Dr. J and Evan Brand sharing their insights about different approaches for stress reduction.
Dr. J suggested to pay attention to nutrients first and some natural herbs such as ashwagandha, rhodiola, holy basil, etc. Watch the whole video to know interesting details about functional medicine in mental health.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:22 Foundation of Functional Medicine Needs
8:27 Emotional Stress
14:50 How to deal with Stress
19:08 Alcohol as Stress Reliever
30:43 Importance of Exercise
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan. Evan, how are we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Doing well, the sky is blue, the weather is amazing. I looked at your forecast for this week too, it’s going to be like 75 and sunny all day, every day. So that’s going to be amazing. We’re inside though, maybe we need to do like outside recordings, maybe need to go like, sit out back in a hammock and record with me. So we don’t miss this weather because then it’s going to be cold. And we’re going to be complaining. But no, but long story short, we were talking pre show about just how everything this year has been kind of crazy. And a lot of people are expressing issues with their mental health, their physical health, their emotional health, it’s affecting our clients, it’s affecting potential clients, people that are reaching out to us that have had businesses closed down or potential job losses and a lot of economic issues that have caused a lot of, you know, mental emotional problems for people. So the idea today was, well, let’s try to cover kind of a, a broad stroke, if you will, of how we could use functional medicine to improve mental health. So let’s dive in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. So off the bat, like we kind of go back to like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, right? That’s kind of like the first thing. So I always tell patients off the bat, there’s kind of a foundation of functional medicine needs, that’s going to be clean water, sleep, and then clean food. And now we can kind of get in the middle of it in the weeds with the food and kind of getting your macros dialed in and getting all that kind of dialed in. But clean water, clean food and good sleep. And so I always tell patients, the more stressed you are, the more you need to be rested, fed and watered. And the more those things are kind of stable, and that’s like your foundation, the better adaptable you will be at the dealing with stress, adapting to stress. So the health, health and stress adaptation are intimately connected. So the more stressed you are, if you start going towards alcohol, and processed food, and staying up too late and watching too much news, it’s going to get that fear cycle going, you’re not going to have enough rest to recharge your parasympathetic nervous system, you’ll be too much sympathetic dominant, you’ll be leaning on your adrenals leaning more on cortisol leaning more on adrenaline, and it’s going to be harder for you to digest. You’ll be just kind of on the edge every time with your emotions, the smallest thing will set you off, and you won’t have a good solid foundation.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I I think people should really just get rid of the social media apps on their phone. I mean, that was something that I did. I just noticed that if I have the social media apps off my phone, and I have to go to a web browser to check them. It’s much much more inconvenient to do it. So I must I’m much less likely to do it. And also, for me, you have the option of being up speaking to that you hear his little notification sound. Oh, social media-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – has turned it off right now. Airplane mode, maybe.
Evan Brand: It’ll, it will, it’s it’s it, you know, there’s been like trials done on how long it takes you to get focused again. And so what I’ve tried to do is to limit my distractions, I think the world now has become a world full of distractions, mainly because people are trying to solve all the world’s problems on their own meaning, you know, I care about the trees getting cut down in the Amazon. So I’m going to go read about this, and then I care about this, I’m going to go read about that. And then you’re so scatterbrained that you kind of lost your own productivity. So I’m not saying that you need to just, you know, put your head in a hole and turn the world’s problems off in your head like they don’t exist. No, I think it’s just a fine line. And I think most people have lost the line of productivity, because they’re so focused on the issues. And a lot of the day to day decisions you make aren’t going to change the world that much like there’s nothing I could do necessarily right this very second, besides maybe donating some money to some organization to stop cutting trees in the Amazon like it sucks. I don’t like to see, you know, you got all this illegal deforestation going on. But there’s only so much you can do. So you got to find a way to to find a healthy way to absorb the media. And most media is negative. So social media, media news. And a lot of it’s not serving you. That’s the only point I have to make.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I do think number one, social media is a big one, you kind of have to like, use it, don’t let it use you. Right. So turn off the notifications. Don’t let it kind of be there something that you always go to write, I think deleting it from your phone, or at least maybe on the weekends or periodically, deleting it can be helpful because you’re not going to access it as much on the web browser. I think also people forget that most people use social media as their highlight reel. So they only post great things about their life. People feel bad about it. So I’m very aware about that. And I don’t overly post the highlight reel of my life on there because those things are between me and my family and I don’t need to share it with the whole world every now and then. I’ll get people A glimpse, but it doesn’t need to be there all the time. A lot of people overdo that. And people forget that they’re seeing someone else’s highlight reel and they make it makes their life feel a little bit less than or more inferior. And you got to remember that right? You can’t forget it. That gives you kind of a good perspective and a grounding and and it really just comes back to appreciation. Right, the more you’re grounded in appreciation for what you have that that really shifts that that stress and that sympathetic kind of response of just inadequacy and, and, and, and feeling like your life’s not enough.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And there’s people with it, we know that are incredibly successful in business and wealth and all of that. And these people will go publicly bring up their anxiety and depression. So when you look at someone’s life, and you see all they have it so good, I’m so jealous of this or that car, this house or whatever, a lot of people listening may just shut it down immediately. And they say, Oh, no, I don’t care. I’m not comparing myself. But it’s kind of a subconscious thing. You’re not even really aware that it’s happening. Just look up type in, like Instagram depression, there’s some studies done that it was the most depressing social media. So I don’t want to make it the whole anti social media podcast, but you, you hit on gratitude. And I think that’s really the key. So what I tried to do was like a walking gratitude. It’s very, very helpful. So I’ll just, I’ll take the kids outside, and they’ll just walk, whether it’s in the backyard, whether it’s down the driveway, whether it’s in the you know, by the garage, I’ll just find a place to just walk, walk, walk. And I’m just focusing on the motions of the body just shaking up and down, dude. And I’m just thinking, Man, I’m grateful. I’m so grateful. Look at this beautiful day, look at the sun, look at the blue clouds, or the white clouds with the blue sky. Look at the the contrast, look at the green on the trees. Oh, we’ve got a little bit of yellow coming in on these maples over here. This is gorgeous, Oh, look at that red tree over there. And it’ll really take you out of the fear, it’ll take you out of the worry those repetitive, repetitive thoughts, you know, there’s, and this is not talking to one or two people here on my intake form, which thousands of people have submitted, you and I use a couple different form creation tools. I’ve looked at how many submissions we have. And it’s literally like 95% of people out of these thousands have reported? Yes, they beat themselves up with negative self talk. That’s a question on the intake form. Do you beat yourself up with negative self talk? 95%? Say yes. Now is that because you and I have a population who has symptoms and they want to get better? Or is that indicative of the general population to I would say the general population would be the same?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I always kind of I heard someone say this a couple of years ago, they said, Imagine, you know all the inner thoughts about yourself, kind of write that down. Okay. And imagine if someone else said those things to you? Would you be friends with that person? Probably not. Right? So it’s, it’s amazing how hard people are regarding the inner dialogue. And I always just kind of inner dialogue comes through your brain, ask yourself, would you be friends with that person? If someone else said that to you? Probably not. So I always just try to say to people, you know, make sure you would be friends with the person that would be saying, the inner thoughts that you’re actually thinking.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s a good call, that’s a really good call, well, you can be your best friend or you can be your worst enemy. And I think it’s easy to become your worst enemy. Because I don’t know you, you’re the one who has to look in the mirror. Right? So you’re always going to be the one to blame yourself. But.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And if that happens, what do you do? Right? I mean, I think if you have that inner dialogue that kind of shifts overtly negative to yourself, what do you do in NLP world, you go and you visualize the stop sign, right? You don’t beat yourself up over it, you visualize the stop sign, and then you then you shift into appreciation. Or some folks will have the elastic band on the wrist and they’ll pull it tight, right to create that negative neuro Association, whether it’s a physical, elastic snap, or whether it’s a stop sign coming in, that’s that’s visually cueing you to stop, however you want to do it, and then just kind of refocus your energy in a non shameful way to, to the things that you have that are great, right? Because that stuff needs to be you need to it’s like weeds grow automatically negative thoughts grow automatically. It takes no effort to be a cynic. In today’s world takes no effort. It really takes a lot of effort to be an appreciator and to focus on the things that you have. So just kind of use some of those cues to stop the negative thought and then shift over into the positive thought. Now I always find too, if you’re some people, it just kind of feels good to be negative a little bit where you’re kind of venting over something. And if you feel that way, just do it while tapping on some meridian points, some of the EFT meridian points because I find at least if you’re going to be negative, this at least decreases that sympathetic tone. And then what happens is as that that nervous system kind of calms down a little bit, it’s easier to shift back into that positive perspective. So you can do some of the EFT points chin under the nose. under the eye doubletap, I find it’s more efficient for me.
Evan Brand: And as you’re doing this, and as you’re doing this, you’re you’re kind of talking about the negative thoughts, it could be, oh, I just thought about irritable, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just just talk about whatever it is, I always like to go into it, assigning it a number. So out of 10, 10 being the worst intensity, where, yeah, you had a five or six or seven. And I try to go into it, taking whatever that number is, I want to cut it in half. So if I’m at a seven, I’m going to cut it down to three, or four, if I’m at a six, I want to cut it down to a three, if I’m at a 10 and want to cut it down below five, I just try to go into it, and have that conversation with myself about whatever that thing is that pissed me off, whatever it is that hey, that difficult patient that that really stressful bill, whatever it is, right. And I just kind of go into it, kind of do a little audit of where you’re at, and then try to get that down until it’s at least half below where it’s at, that kind of puts you back in the driver’s seat. And then it gives you the ability to shift to being positive, because you can’t be positive, it’s harder to be positive when you have that emotional staying at a higher level on that on that object subjective scale I gave you. So if you can cut it in half, that gives you the ability now to downshift from negative into positive to enable just want to make that shift. while they’re at a high level of negative it’s too difficult. That’s Oh, man, doing the EFT can be helpful because one, it gives you permission to be negative, but two, you’re giving your your nervous system, a little bit of a bump to be able to neutralize it.
Evan Brand: That is the the best point you’ve made about the emotional stress piece because this is like taking somebody who’s in the middle of a full blown panic attack and saying, Just chill out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just chill out, like just relax, like, be be positive, no, can’t do that. Can’t do that. So this is where like the EMDR. And then you can kind of scatter your eyes around while you do it too. Right. So you can go look at like a clock face and go to 1936. Or you can tap while you’re pretending like you’re looking at different clock numbers with your eyes. And because when you move your eyes that uses different cranial nerves, which uses different parts of the brain, and that kind of the whole goal is you’re kind of scattering that signal. Number one, you’re interrupting the pattern. Number two, it’s kind of like if you’re talking about something you ever had it where someone interrupted you and you’re like, What the hell are they talking about? Right? ever have that? That’s kind of what you’re doing a little bit to your brain and in some of the negative thinking you’re trying to scatter that pattern and make it a little bit harder for your brain to go back to and then you’re like, what, what was I mad about? Oh, yeah, that. And then it makes it easier than shift into positive.
Evan Brand: I just tried to go outside to like, for some reason. Well, duh, I mean, humans were meant to be outside. We’re not meant to be in boxes all day. But you know, if you have a thought that is intrusive, you can just go out, and I’ll take a pair of binoculars, and I’ll just go outside and I’ll just watch the birds. Or I’ll go fill up the bird feeder, put it like a sewage feeder. So it’s like a big chunky like fatty CD type feed. I like to go put that out, watch the woodpeckers come in. And if I’m looking at them, and I’m not thinking about anything, yeah, that’s a that’s a great point. So let’s tie the functional medicine piece into what you said because I think what you said is a really good place to pivot which is you can’t take someone because someone listening who’s just so stressed out right now they’re going to they’re going to listen to you talk about tapping or if they’re watching the video on YouTube. So you tap into right What is this guy doing? He’s friggin tapping his forehead. I’m so pissed. I don’t care what what is this gonna do? That person’s a 10. He can’t he can’t even comprehend getting down to a five right now. So So on the maybe you would call it the herbalist functional medicine side, maybe we come in and give that guy or gal a shot of passionflower. Or maybe we give them a couple hundred milligrams of some pharma gabbeh or maybe a little bit of mother wort or maybe some ashwagandha maybe some Holy basil. Maybe we come in with some B vitamins because you and I know based on looking at thousands and thousands of people on organic acids testing that if you’re really really stressed, you’re going to burn out your bees as in Bravo, your B vitamins are going to be toast we know that. Based on looking at these labs, your neurotransmitters are going to be affected. So you may have low dopamine, you may have low serotonin, which is causing more anxiety, but then the low dopamine is causing a lack of energy and lack of drive. So let’s dive into some of these more functional pieces now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so we talked about the mindset stuff. We talked about tools to kind of decrease that sympathetic output and it’s just tapping on meridian points, right acupressure acupuncture points, kind of how energy and nervous energy Nervous System energy flows to the body. It’s just helping that energy flow better whether you call it ci or whether you call it action potential or, or nervous system, nerve flow, whatever you want to say, right? blood flow. It’s all connected, right? It’s all connected, right? So off the bat, we were talking about functional stuff. So when you’re stressed What are important things? Well, blood sugar stability is really important because most people get on a rollercoaster of blood sugar. When they get stressed meaning they’re going they’re overly gravitating towards alcohol, or overly gravitating towards refined sugar, their blood sugar goes up and then crashes down. And then it creates more nervous system stimulation via adrenaline and epinephrine being stimulated. And cortisol being stimulated to bring your blood sugar back up. So I find just keep it really simple, really easy with your meals, you may be more nauseous when you’re overly stressed because stress hormone does cause you to feel nauseous. So this is where you may want to do a soup or a simple smoothie, something really easy where there’s not a lot of digestion, but you’re still getting some proteins and fat in there. Whether it’s some collagen and some coconut milk or just sipping on some bone broth, right, something like that is going to have some good fat protein and it won’t be hard to digest. So if you feel nauseous just still no you should probably be eating but just try to make it something very easy on your tummy. And then think what are some of the nutrients your nervous systems in need when you’re more stressed, so low hanging fruit, B vitamins B complex is going to be very essential. Magnesium is going to be excellent gabbeh l-theanine these are good things that are going to help you relax and wind down having kind of mentioned valerian root or passionflower which are all connected to gabbeh and that kind of inhibitory neurotransmitter that helps you just relax a little bit kind of kind of puts the clutch in gear disengages the the gearbox so you can kind of downshift so to speak.
Evan Brand: Did you ever do Kava when you were down in Austin?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so I mean, I’ve done I’ve done Kava still.
Evan Brand: Did you go to the bars though? There’s like a cot. There’s like a cup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, no, I’ve never I’ve never done it at a bar, but I’ve done it. Um, someone brought it over my house. They got it from Fiji. Before I did, it was relaxing. I like Kava that does a lot of gabbeh too, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah, does I felt weird my throat. I felt like well, am I having a reaction to this? Like it numbs your throat so much. It was a bizarre feeling. Yeah, I’m not recommending it. I’m not recommending it as a as a tool. But it could be it could be a good tool. I just thought I’d bring it up. Because when you mentioned like, Valerian I thought, Man, I remember that one time I drink Kava. I was. It was a weird, almost like an out of body relaxation. And I didn’t feel very grounded. It was kind of like whoa, I’m floating in the room. Kind of kind of interesting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, like I always go to nutrients first. And then I go to my favorite adaptogenic herbs second, so ashwagandha is one of my favorites. Right? ashwagandha rhodiola. Excellent. Excellent x, Holy basil those are kind of like my favorite kind of very relaxed, defying, relaxing tonifying kind of herbs, if you will.
Evan Brand: I like it too relaxefying, Do you get any sort of change in your outlook with holy basil? Because for me, that’s the one that’s most significant. Like I feel like I could take on the world when I get like a, I don’t know five 600 milligram a holy basil. It’s kind of like I am ready for the challenge. It’s a weird because it’s I’m calm. But I’m also energized at the same time. Do you get anything like that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It hasn’t been on my stack for a while. So right now my big stacks on my desk is going to be ashwagandha I do have some some gabbeh chewables and gabbeh sublingual. I mean, I think if you just took people’s works and took, you know, in their, in their place of work, whatever. And you took away all the candy and you just put like magnesium, and you put gabbeh like Lawson jers. Right. Think about how much of a stress reduction had been people’s works. Right. So much better. Maybe some B vitamins.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, if you and I had brick and mortar places what I would do instead of a little you know how old school like front desk, you’ve got a little glass of like lifesavers and peppermints. And a bunch of garbage. I’d have like pre packaged chewable pharma gabbeh sitting there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. chewable pharma gabbeh, sublingual magnesium, maybe some l-theanine shots, right? keep it really simple. I remember in doctor at school before. For finals, we would like make drinks of like ginseng and holy basil. And we like create these like shot glasses all lined up with herbs where we take it. It was fine. I mean, those are some fun times. But um, yeah, so we just got to think a little bit differently and how you deal with stress, just a different mindset change.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I want to go back to what you said how people get into the alcohol and to the sugar and all of that and the carbohydrates and the blood sugar rollercoaster. I think people don’t understand why that happens. So I just want to give people a brief education of why that’s happening from a, you know, neurotransmitter perspective, that way you feel a little more confident that you can change this and you’re not just a victim to the food. So when we look at urine and you measure these neurotransmitter metabolites, we can see that after a period of stress, especially if somebody has been working with us for several years, we can see that Oh, they went through a divorce. Look what happened to their endorphins, for example, the endorphins got burned out. And with the help of Julia Ross, she has an amazing amino acid therapy chart in her books. You can see that the symptoms of low endorphins start to pop up. So these are the people that cry at the drop of the hat. These are the people that hard on the sleeve real emotionally sensitive. If they crave dark chocolate, they’re going for food to comfort themselves or reward themselves. Those are low endorphin signs, we’ll match up those symptoms to the neurotransmitter report on the oat. And then we’ll come in with a therapeutic nutrient like dl phenylalanine, to rebuild the endorphins. And then within four to six weeks, you can have it the 60% difference in symptoms were these people that were running to the cookie because they were stressed or running to the alcohol at night to relax, they no longer need that now, they may still do it. But they literally don’t have the physiological need to do that. Some people say, I just can’t relax until I have that glass of wine. Once you rebuild the brain chemistry, they literally don’t need it anymore.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, if you’re having a stressful day, I mean alcohol Don’t get me wrong is that is a wonderful downer. I mean, it really does help relax people. Now obviously, if you’re going to engage in alcohol, keep it to like a drier champagne, a drier white wine, keep it to a clean alcohol and try to do it after you’ve eaten. So you’re not creating a blood sugar swing, because alcohol can actually lower your blood sugar. And then that creates more cravings and more cravings for junky food, right? So if you’re going to have a glass of alcohol, right, don’t want don’t get drunk. But if you’re going to have a glass, make sure it’s a healthy version, then just try to have some good protein before you have it like so if you go out, for instance, have some oysters, maybe a little bit of seafood, maybe a shrimp cocktail and have a glass of champagne or two or a cabo or Prosecco or something clean, clean, clean alcohol. There’s nothing wrong with that, you know, especially if it’s only if it’s not an everyday kind of thing. I think it’s totally fine. And you know, make sure you’re utilizing some of the nutrients we talked about. So you’re supporting the neurotransmitters as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, check out our podcast, we did a whole one on the whole biohacking alcohol thing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s how-
Evan Brand: So, Sunshine, sunshine is huge. I mean, granted, when you’re in certain parts of the country, you really lose the sun, you really lose it because you get clouds. And, you know, if you’re really high northern latitude, it’s really tough to get sun, I’ve got a lot of clients in Canada, and they just get major, major seasonal depression. And so for those people, like a light therapy box can be helpful. I already know for me personally, it’s affected me like when it gets dark at five 6pm. I mean, I just mentally, I just don’t like it. And so the light therapy box can be very good. A lot of times, you’re going to see those at around 10,000. Lux, that’s a pretty bright, pretty bright light. Of course, nothing is going to beat the sunshine. But if it’s like you’re in Alaska, you literally or, you know, hours of sun per day, whereas before it was 12 hours, and now you’re three hours of sunlight. That’s really tough mentally, so sun can be helpful. I wish tanning beds weren’t so controversial. because years ago, I had a friend who worked at a gym who had a level, I think they called it a level three or level four tanning bed, which was not something that closed on you. It wasn’t like magnetic field balanced. Like I measured it, there was no EMF coming from it. But it was almost like the stage lights, almost like a like a theatrical performance, like a red light up at the top. And you could get a tan, I mean, literally in a couple of sessions. But I did it for mental health. And we know that sunlight in general can really help act as almost like morphine, it can really help modulate these opiate receptors in the brain. I remember coming out of a six or seven minute session, and I was just high on life. I felt so good after that. And I thought, wow, I wish this didn’t have to be so controversial. Because if someone could get access to something like this, if we knew that it wasn’t going to increase risk of skin cancers and such, man, what could it do for all the depressed people out there that have Seasonal Affective issues in the winter?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think it just comes down to when you’re dealing with sun, it’s just don’t burn, you know, just just don’t get a burn and you’ll be fine. And that’s different for every single person. And so of course, you know, natural sunlight is going to be ideal. I think it’s gonna be excellent. So that’s a good first step for sure. We talked about some of the B vitamins and things and it gets really essential. I think also, you know, just from a financial standpoint, I think it’s really, really good. People talk about it, just having that six month emergency fund, right, try to have, you know, six months of being able to take care of your family, whether it’s food, living mortgage, just try to really make sure at least three to six months if people had that during COVID. I think there’d be way way, way less financial stress for people. I know, it’s a tough thing to do. But I think it’s something to strive for in regards to financial health is just really look for that six months, three to six month emergency fund. I think you’re smart.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And try to get rid of things that you don’t truly need. I mean, I had several people who say oh, you know this or that about budget, but they’ve got the hundred and $40 a month cable bill and they’ve got the the you know, the subscription to this or that that adds up to hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month. So I think with the reducing subscriptions where you can the emergency fund is smarter than from the food security perspective. Two, I remember months ago, you and I were talking about this it was there was talk about some of these meat processing plants and stuff shutting down and I had literally some of my clients freaking out thinking that they were going to run out of meat and not be able to feed their family. I mean, they were probably just watching too much news about the subject. But that’s why I always recommend everyone have a good chest freezer, you can get him for $100 and go on local harvest or eat wild, or just Google local farms around you, we have a farm that I pay him a little bit extra, but they’ll deliver to the house. And we’ll have literally an entire chest freezer full of amazing grass fed meat at anywhere from six to $10 a pound depending on the cut. And we don’t have to worry about going to Whole Foods where we’re going to get shamed if we don’t want to wear a mask, and then we’re buying their overpriced stuff sitting in the fridge. I’ve got my local farm, you know, bringing pastured meats at a fraction of the cost to my door, throw in the chest freezer, I sleep great at night knowing that if something were to happen to the food supply, my children and my wife and I will be well fed. And then of course well what if the electrical grid? Well, I don’t know. That’s that’s, that’s pretty slim chance. I know, people in California worried about that earlier this year, because of the fires, people were thinking, well, what if I have the chest freezer full of meat? And then the electrical grid goes off? Because California turns off my power generator? You know, hopefully, it’s not a long term thing. But you just got a problem solution problem solution, you can’t just get paralyzed by the problems.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I always talk about it, you got to close the loop, right? You know, you have a problem. When you don’t close the loop. And you think about the solution, and you keep these loops, I call them keeping these loops open. That’s where stress happens when you close the loop. That’s where you feel a lot better, because it’s our problem solution. Problem solution, you’re constantly opening and closing loops all day long. That’s kind of how you want to think about it. So you have maximal you know, stress reduction. So we talked about physiology, right? That’s the foundation because remember, that’s like the this is the vehicle This is a suit, the biochemical suit we have to walk through every day and not everyone’s suit is the same and how we can deal with stress. So if you’re looking coming into this, you know, 20 minutes late, you’re like, Well, what do I focus on, focus on the physiological biochemical suit, because that gives you the ability to adapt. And then from there, you can try to grab one or two things that work best for you. mindsets, really important, dealing with some of these stress can be helpful. Talking about some of the supplements can be helpful. Making sure you’re in a good kind of financial situation can be helpful as well. You know, those are all good kind of strategies out of the gates. Anything else you want to talk about functional medicine wise. So we talked about some of the organic acid testing and looking at neurotransmitters that can be helpful, because I find people that are, you know, let’s say long term stressed out people, we’re going to see a lot of neurotransmitter patterns that are pretty depleted regarding amino acids and dopamine and adrenaline and serotonin. And that may be a longer thing you have to work on replacing with amino acids. So that may not be just a supplement you want to dunk on, they may take a while to work on depleting that, especially, you know, the faster it happens when you work on all the sleep stuff and the diet stuff that gets better, but that the bucket that may need some effort to work on depleting.
Evan Brand: Yeah, the only other functional medicine piece we’re going to be looking into for these like super stress, people’s looking into the gut, we’re going to be looking at gut inflammation. We’re going to be looking at parasites, bacterial overgrowth, all the stuff we normally talk about Candida, because there could be some more functional reasons why someone is going into the cookies, for example, or the alcohol, maybe on a neurotransmitter test, they look okay, but in regards to their gut, maybe they have all these bacterial pathogens are parasitic pathogens that are kind of like begging for some sort of quick burning glucose, right? So we may come in. And I noticed personally just using some Mimosa, I was doing some experiments with not not the orange juice cocktail thing, but actual most of the seed most a tree seed in capsule form. That’s very beneficial for calming down my gut. And I noticed mentally I was calm, just by calming down my gut. So don’t forget about the gut brain access, there is a connection there. And so if you’re having digestive problems now, whether that’s due to stress, or whether it’s due to infections, if you’re having diarrhea or constipation, or stomach cramping or food intolerances, you got to try to address those because it does signal and alert Danger, danger to the brain, meaning if you’re going and eating this allergenic food, irritating the gut that can then irritate your brain and cause issues. So I’ve had some people that have gotten anxious after certain foods, and we know that histamine is a neurotransmitter as well. So if you’re having histamine reactions, even just something like a low histamine diet may be useful to help calm the brain down because of some of the reactions there with histamine. So people think it’s just histamine allergies. No, but it can also affect your brain chemistry. And so you got to focus on that maybe herbal anti histamines or something we would use or some enzymes to help to reduce some of the effectiveness of the histamine on the brain. So I think that’s probably my last piece.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and those are all valid points. For sure. You know, you talked about histamine, you talked about inflammation, and inflamed brains not going to focus and not going to do as well. So again, inflammation, whether it’s food allergens or deeper gut issues is a big one. Also medical palsy women, you know, lower hormone issues can affect the brain. So try to make sure your hormones are at least at a good stable place because that’s going to help with brain inflammation that’s gonna help with cognitive stuff as well. So everyone’s coming at this from a different place from from a different foundational weakness. So just try to figure out where you’re at and take at least one or two steps, you know, Ford on that. Also exercise can be helpful. So just try to find a couple of movements, simple movements that you can do 510 minutes, that’s going to help really decrease a bunch of stress. So whether it’s a push movement, a pull movement, a set or squat, a bender, a pole, whatever that movement pattern is just try to engage in some of these simple movements, it’s going to really help your mood, it’s going to take a lot of that mental energy and allow you to kind of put it out into that physical movement pattern.
Evan Brand: Oh, 100% Yeah, exercise is key. I should have mentioned it earlier. I mean, I feel amazing after I just do some dumbbells or roll machine or hike in the woods, hike in the field, you know, whatever I could do to move. I mean, that’s in its free, right, it’s free, so and you don’t need any permission to do that. So obviously, if you’re going into a gym and you’re doing the whole mass thing in a gym, maybe that’s not as fun so get outside go somewhere where you know, you have your own space and you don’t have people you know, breathing down your neck, so to speak. But I think with the gut piece, the neurotransmitter piece, the aminos here’s kind of the the summary of today and what’s been going on in the world. A lot of people are just like, hey, things are crazy, I give up. But this is actually the time where you really want to dial things in even more. This is a time where you want to focus even more to keep your body keep your mind keep your your sleep patterns healthy. This is not a time where screw it I’m going to go off the rails and just drink a case of beer. It This isn’t the time to do that a lot of people they’re so stressed they have no other coping mechanism. But I would argue everything you and I’ve been talking and doing and preaching and clinically doing for people. This is kind of like the showdown This is like okay, what did all that work we put in actually do did we were we the last man standing, meaning everyone else got burned out and ended up on you know, anti anxiety medication. And we stayed calm and cool through the whole thing. I think this is the time where you can see all the hard work paying off.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I think you’re totally kind of dialed in. Also, one thing I’ve been doing a little bit is a little more meditation and just keep it really simple with breathing. Just focus on breath, you can do kind of a biofeedback device like the Muse that I’ve talked about, we’ll put a link down below for that. That’s one thing I’m experimenting more with. It just kind of gives you that little bit of a thumbs up from a biofeedback standpoint that you’re you’re you’re putting your brain in a pretty good place when you’re meditating. I think it gives people confidence. They’re doing it right. The problem I find with meditation, people are like, Am I doing this right? And there’s just insecurity and what the heck they’re doing. And then that prevents them from being compliant with it. So I think having a extra kind of pat on the back yet you’re doing the right You’re doing good with a some kind of a device that helps whether it’s whether it’s HRV, or the Muse or M wave type of technology, these kind of things I think are helpful to give you the confidence that you’re doing something right.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, the floatation tank is awesome. So doing doing a float would be good. deep tissue massage would be great. calming essential oils would be great Epsom salt baths would be great is anything you can do to downshift. We talked about the shifting phenomenon quite a bit, but-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a lot, there’s a lot of options for sure.
Evan Brand: Okay, cool. Well, let’s wrap this thing up. So if people need help, we’re here for you. We always have been and we intend to be kind of on the front lines, helping people with all this stuff. So if you need to reach out to Dr. J. JustinHealth.com is the website. If you need to reach out to me, EvanBrand.com is the website and we’re here for you. So don’t give up. Don’t give in. You got to keep pushing forward every day, you still got to put your pants on, you still got to do the thing, whether it’s take care of your kids take care of your wife, your husband take care of career, you still got to move forward. So I know it’s easy to get kind of stuck and like you mentioned I like the idea of the open loops closing the loops. I didn’t get stuck in these open loops, but you got to close the doors. Try to simplify try to you know, minimize decision making focus on the big things and you’re going to be just fine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Excellent and Well, great podcast today EvanBrand.com to reach out to Evan, JustinHealth.com to reach out to me we’re available worldwide. If you want to dive in, look deeper at your physiology, biochemistry, neurotransmitters, gut whatever the root issue is. We’re here to help you guys have a phenomenal day. Click down below for all the important links, guys. Take care. Bye.
Evan Brand: Take care now. Bye bye.
Fatigue, Tiredness, and Lethargy: Link to Gut Infection | Podcast #311
Tiredness is not a symptom that defines any one particular disease. Rather, tiredness can be a symptom of many different diseases and conditions. Causes of tiredness range from lack of sleep and over exercise to medical and surgical treatments. The lack of energy (lethargy) associated with tiredness can sometimes cause difficulty with normal daily activities, leading to attentiveness and concentration problems.
Dr. J suggested considering to support protein breakdown by extra amino acids and enzymes. Dr. Evan also added that if you have issues, always reach your conventional Dr. or functional Dr., be tested, find the root cause and guide to fix possible infections that cause you to feel tired before you reach a crisis level.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:10 Mechanisms to Gut Infection
4:05 Where Gut Stressors Come From
12:12 Infections that causes Fatigue
17:41 Probiotics and Beneficial Bacteria
22:32 Supplements to Gut Infection
24:18 Immune Issues
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be chatting about your gut infections may be making you tired. Many people don’t think about how their gut maybe having an impact on your energy, your mood, your emotions, but it’s totally true. Most people think, oh, if I have a gut issue, I’m just gonna have bloating or diarrhea or constipation or acid reflux. Oh contraire. We’re gonna dive into that today, Evan, how are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Doing really well. How about should I just go straight into my story, then? I mean, I suffered with this thing firsthand, as you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Let’s do it.
Evan Brand: So when I was down in Austin, I was losing weight. And I didn’t know why I was losing weight. And turns out and I was exhausted. That was that was the main thing. I mean, I was drained, like, it was really tough for me to get through the day. I mean, I was to the point where, at some point, it’s kind of embarrassing. I mean, I was like, okay, am I do I have enough energy to cook a meal at night, you know, for dinner, like, the workday just drained me. And so fortunately, after I got the gut infections resolved, I mean, the story is not much longer than that my energy came back online. So I mean, we can say clinically, and personally, that this is a big, big smoking gun for anybody who’s been dealing with chronic fatigue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally 100%. Now, let’s talk about some of the mechanisms why like, you could have constipation, you could have diarrhea, you could have all these digestive issues, that’s fine. And it makes sense why some of these issues may be causing problems. Because if you’re going to digest a lot of the nutrients that energize you, right, B vitamins, your amino acids, your essential fatty acids to burn them in the mitochondria for fuel, all of these things require optimal absorption, right? So if we don’t have adequate enzyme, or acid level or biliary level to break down fats, proteins, and carbohydrates, we’re going to have a problem with those nutrients getting into our bloodstream and making their way to ourselves and our mitochondria to be burned for fuel. So that’s one big mechanism. And the other big mechanism out of the gates, and we’ll kind of expound deeper into each one is the fact that your immune system sucks up lots and lots of resources. So think back to when you maybe got the flu or had some kind of illness. Were you energized? Are you tired? Most people were very tired. Now, why is that? It’s because your immune system allocates lots and lots of resources when it’s stressed. And it will make you tired, because it’ll pull some of those energy resources to put it towards fighting an infection. All right. So if your immune system is caught chronically in that state of trying to fight something, whether it’s a gut infection, cebo, or parasite, or just gut permeability issues that are upregulated, due to bad foods, and food allergens, you’re going to be really over stimulating and over allocating resources to deal with whatever’s happening with the immune system, aka the gut. Don’t forget 80% of your immune system is located in the gut, people forget that so important. So if you’re over stressing your immune system, you’re gonna have problems.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And so for me, I was taking some immune support, but it was all just kind of a bandaid, right? Because I wasn’t focused on the underlying infection. So this time of the year, we’re, we’re talking in the fall here coming up on winter, you have a lot of people that will say, Well, you know, I really just want to strengthen my immune system. So they’ll go and do maybe some extra vitamin C, maybe some medicinal mushrooms, or maybe some other herbs, astragalus, things like that. But it doesn’t matter if you do all those if you don’t address the infection. So if someone’s like, tired and they feel weak, they feel depleted. They feel like they’re possibly immunocompromised. Sure, you could do some of the tools, like we talked about those herbs, but really, you got to test first of all, figure out what kind of infections you have. And then step two, is you come in and make a protocol to fix those infections. And not to mention, you know, like h pylori is super contagious. So, I mean, you and I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of cases where, you know, husband and wife have reinfected each other. And so we’re not doing this to try to make more money. We’re doing this to help the family when we say, Hey, what about your husband? What about your wife when we try to get them on board? It’s because we know about this potential, you know, cross contamination.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So we kind of look at the gut, and we’re like, Alright, where are the gut stressors coming from? So the first stressor we look at are food allergens, because if your immune system is kind of responding negatively to food, that could be a big a big issue, right? And what happens is, when food allergens kind of come in, whether it’s gluten or dairy, or just you know, processed grains, or sugars, or even things like nuts, or seeds, or just more allergenic foods, soy those kind of things. Your immune system is upregulated dealing with those foods, and that’s going to suck away resources. And also, these foods if you have an allergen to them, if your body’s hyper allergenic, meaning your immune system is over responsive. There may be some gut permeability. And gut permeability is like these little tight junctions in the epithelium in the small intestines. They’re like this. So imagine you’re putting your hands together like you’re saying a prayer now, start pulling your fingers apart a little bit, you see the little gaps that happen that’s happening at a microscopic level with the tight junction cells in the small intestine. So the more you’re stressing your gut lining, these tight junctions open up, like I mentioned, the fingers come further apart. And then food particular we call it antigens, right? These foods aren’t supposed to be in the bloodstream at the size they’re in. Now you start having these antigens go into the bloodstream at a larger level, and now the immune system’s going to start going after it with full force. And that’s gonna start sucking up a lot more of your resources. So the first thing when we’re working with patients worldwide, we’re trying to cut down the food allergenicity we’re trying to decrease the immune response by helping the foods not become so bad or stressful on the immune system. So some people coming in on a standard American diet, a paleo template, maybe enough. Some people that are really have an autoimmune issue or Irritable Bowel Disease, we have to go to a paleo template where we’re cutting out extra allergenic foods, some we have to even go to a carnivore or some kind of an STD low lower fodmap diet because the bacteria is overgrown, and it’s reacting to even fodmap foods like broccoli and onions and garlic like healthy foods, were reacting to it. And so it this whole thing becomes a little bit more nuanced with food, the more unhealthy you become, or the longer your conditions progress. So as a practitioner, right, we’re trying to meet people where they’re at some people come in at a really easy phase, they’re just diets crap. And we can just make a simple change with the Paleo some we have to get a lot more nuanced.
Evan Brand: So let me ask you, you brought up garlic. I had a woman last week, actually. And she was complaining that garlic was a big issue for her. So we’ve already cleared out gut infections, and we’ve done a great job. We’ve retested we’ve confirmed that we got rid of all the gut infections, we are doing some leaky gut support, but she says every time I eat garlic, I get really bloated. What would you What would you do? What would you say to that garlic person?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it could be a SIBO thing. So I’d want to test other fodmap foods. So if there’s some kind of a gut issue or like a bloat or a motility issue, or a diary or a constipation issue, we’re going to be cutting out fodmaps fermentable carbohydrates, fructose, oligo, disaccharide, mono and polyols. And we’re going to do that and then we’ll eventually do a reintroduction. And when we reintroduce foods, we’re going to start with moderate fodmaps first and then go to higher fodmaps. Last, so those foods are higher fodmap. So the question will be How did she do adding in the moderate ones? First, I want to know how she did incrementally adding things in.
Evan Brand: So like apples, she does fine, which was interesting, because to me, I’ve had a lot more people have issues with apples than I have with garlic. So I thought Hmm, you know, is it really a bacterial overgrowth thing? The stool test didn’t really show much in the in the bacterial category. So it’s kind of like, well-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: when people like that, I just want to see is it a one off? Is it just garlic? Or is it other foods like onions and broccoli and avocado, which is a moderate or sweet potato, which is a matar, I want to test more of the moderate fodmaps? Maybe add in some fermented foods like a kombucha or a sauerkraut? Did it happen with those two, if it’s just a one off, then it could be some die off, it could just be she’s having an issue with that food. So if it’s a one off, I don’t really worry about one offs, I look for patterns, like patterns or like part of being a good functional medicine doctor, it’s pattern recognition, you’re looking for patterns, like some patient that can be Well, last week I had this happen or that like, we got to look at bigger picture, we got to have enough data points. So we can look at patterns. Anything can happen one off due to stress or a poor night’s sleep, or you got exposure to some bad foods. And now your guts a little bit rocky for a few days. So we got to look at longer trends and really have a lot of good pattern recognition. Part of what we do, we’re kind of CSI detectives, and we got to look for things repeating itself, because anything can happen one off, we don’t want to change what we’re doing, or the programs that people are on, off of just a one off issue.
Evan Brand: And that’s what it was, it was a one off and it was kind of, you know, frustrating for me because I’m thinking well, crap, you know, everything else, she’s tolerating good and any other problematic foods, I’d kind of put in that same category that we thought would be a problem. They’re not a problem. So I’m sitting here thinking, Okay, well, what kind of explanation Can I give her? Because she wants some kind of good functional medicine answer for me, right? And so that’s what I told her. I’m like, well, this sounds like just Oh, to be honest, kind of like a food sensitivity, particularly to the garlic. You know, I don’t looking at the testing. I told her I didn’t really see anything that was compelling to indicate any other sort of issue and all the other foods were tolerated. So I kind of just gave it like a political answer. It was like, wow, hmm. You know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, well, we’ll come it’s possible there could be just a, her immune response is just a little bit more sensitive to if we don’t see extra data points correlating to it, then I just tell patients, hey, let’s just we’ll come back. We’ll work on probiotics. We’ll work on good re inoculation of good healthy bacteria while adding some prebiotic fibers every month. We can try testing it again. But as long as there’s no yeah, as long as there’s no, let’s just say, family of other foods that are interacting like this, then we’re not going to really worry about it too much. But you can always retest, make sure that gut’s doing good, but it’s possible you have one off allergen issue that’s possible. But every month, we can always retest it and see.
Evan Brand: Yeah, good point, I did end up throwing in a high dose, multi strain probiotic. So we’re with a high amount of bifido. So we’re gonna see what happens.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and this person could tolerate fermentable carbohydrates, like sauerkraut and, and maybe a little bit of kombucha it’s probably not a fodmap issue, because those things are very, very high in fodmaps. It could be she’s killing some stuff off. It could just be she sensitive to garlic. It’s possible. Yeah. And so I mean, I just tell patients, hey, you know, that’s an artifact, we just kind of make a note on it. When we follow it down the road later on. If things kind of connect back to it down the road. That’s nice. But if not, things that are one offs. You don’t want to you don’t want to one off to derail your whole investigation.
Evan Brand: Yes. Yes. That’s a great point. You know, it’s like you’re, you’re you’re like, you know, investigating a crime scene, and you have his weird piece of evidence. That does not make sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, we’ll make a note on that. And we’ll come back to it if there’s any patterns that they point back to it down the road.
Evan Brand: Yep. Yep. Great. So so small tangent, but really helpful. I think it’s, it’s helpful for people to see how do you have to think when you’re approaching these issues, it’s not always black and white, you know, we try to refer back to clinical experience, we kind of sprinkle in some of the data sprinkled in some previous case studies that we’ve done with people. So it’s really fun. But back to the fatigue piece.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I just wanted to highlight one component, because while you’re on it, is when we are talking about these things, because we’re clinicians, and we see thousands of patients, we’re operating more off of clinical concepts than like rote memorization of like, a fax. And so when people listen to our podcasts, we really want them to understand the overarching concepts of health. If you understand a concept, you don’t really have to memorize it, if you’re trying to memorize random facts and randomness, and that becomes a little bit convoluted and a little bit stressful. So just try to get the overarching concepts that we’re talking about here. Once you get the concept, you never have to worry about memorizing, and it’s just there.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, good. So I just wanted to go back to the to the fatigue piece, because for certain people, there may be multiple layers of infections that are causing your fatigue. So for me it was H. pylori, and then once I got rid of the H pylori, then it was the parasites that were still causing me to be tired. And once I got rid of that, then I did have some Candida that I had to address. So what I want people to know is that if you double down or triple down on something, you know, the guy tells you it’s parasites, or the girl tells you it’s this, and you pursue that, and you’re not better, it’s possible that you’ve, you’ve missed something. And so I just want people to wrap their head around you, like you say, you have permission to have multiple things wrong at the same time. So you could have a bacterial issue, a parasite issue, a Candida problem, all at the same time. And so you got to make sure you get all the data if you just run a stool test. Candida rarely shows up on the stool test, you and I’ve talked about this many times. So the urine test will often fill in the blank. So if you had one test done, or your doctor ran this or that, and you feel like you’re missing something you probably are so keep, keep digging.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You also there’s one study here just looking at h pylori and mitochondrial function, I’ll put it up on my screen. But this is important, right? And the reason why it’s important, I’m going to just I’m going to do a share here. So if you guys are listening to the podcast on YouTube, you’ll be able to watch the video. If you’re on iTunes, you know, you have to just click the YouTube link, and you’ll be able to see what we’re talking about. If not, I’ll try to describe it pretty well. But you can see my screen you see my screen.
Evan Brand: Yep. h pylori affects the mitochondrial function.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So this is important right here. So mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cells. This is really important and the powerhouse of your cell generates ATP for energy. Now, if you look here at the bottom they talked about, they wanted to investigate whether there’s an increased mutational load and mitochondrial genome and what they found was there believe that the there’s a downregulation in the mitochondrial DNA repair pathway? What does that mean? It means how your mitochondria are repaired and regenerated. It’s going to be down regulated, so you’re not going to be able to repair your your mitochondria as fast. It’s believed to be involved in mitochondrial base excision repair. Our results suggest that these genes A p one and y b one, just know that their DNA is that are involved in mitochondrial DNA repair. They’re they’re demonstrated to be involved and they’re demonstrated to be down regulated when there’s an H pylori infection. So it just means that your body’s ability to generate ATP which has decreased respiration coupled aptr. So you’re not able to generate as much ATP and repair your mitochondria as well when you have an H pylori infection. And this is something that we think is there with a lot of gut infections. It affects your mitochondria. Your ability to repair it, which then affects your ATP synthesis.
Evan Brand: That is pretty crazy. I mean, especially if we’re talking about an athlete who wants to perform right you’ll have all these big celebrity personal trainers and stuff and they’ll just get people on different diet changes or no, you need to do this exercise or this exercise and they missed the boat. They don’t have a clue about H. pylori being the root cause of the of the fatigue or the exercise performance. So yeah, it’s just crazy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then also, there’s a lot of right here, right here one study, I’ve already looked at it before, if people are having gut issues, and they go to their conventional gastroenterologist, what are they typically prescribing? Well, a lot of times they’re prescribing antibiotics, right, and there’s a lot of data, bacterial Seidel, antibiotics induce mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative damage. And so we know this is something that’s actually present, where there’s damage to the mitochondria with antibiotics.
Evan Brand: Well, and and, and to be clear, for H pylori, it’s not just one antibiotic, it’s three or even four, they have what they call quadruple therapy now, which just the name of it scares me, it’s literally four antibiotics at the same time. And you and I have both seen patients that have had triple or quadruple therapy done and guess what we retest them, and unfortunately, due to antibiotic resistant bacteria, the infections are still there. So now we have to come in, repair all the mitochondria that were damaged, plus use herbs, which are much, much safer, and in my experience, just as if not more effective, and then we actually get rid of the bugs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, she’s a summary of your mitochondria dysfunction and oxygen damage induced by bacterial Seidel antibiotics, which is interesting, because bacteria, all antibiotics are bacterial Seidel, so interesting. They use that description. It’s mammalian cells. I’m not sure which mammals they use. But they talked about that it’s alleviated by antioxidants. Well, guess what, when we use a lot of the clearing herbs that we use, guess what they’re rich in, I mean, tons of antioxidants, polyphenols. And that’s the benefit, a lot of the herbs that we use, they have a lot of antioxidants in them to help buffer the oxidative stress. Because remember, oxidative stress is part of what happens with the antibiotics. And we have a similar effect with herbs. But the herbs have a lot of antioxidants, which is helpful. Any comments on that?
Evan Brand: Well, what you’re saying makes us look really good, because not only are we giving nutrients that can effectively get rid of the infections, but we’re also protecting the system or even replenishing antioxidants, because in general, and the oxidants are going to be reduced because of all the oxidative stress from the infection in the first place. So it’s literally like a win win, for us and for the person under the protocol.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And there’s lots of different studies here as well on probiotics and beneficial bacteria, correcting mitochondrial dysfunction with probiotics. There’s there’s definitely studies on this as well. And again, you know, these are things that we’ve seen in our practice, like when you see someone get better. So protection of hepatocyte mitochondrial function by blueberry juice probiotics. So there’s lots of studies on this, because when you see patients get better with certain beneficial bacteria, after you do an elimination, you’re like, why does that work? And so what happens is you see a clinical outcome, patient getting better when you do something. And then you’re like, Huh, what could the mechanism B and then you chase it down online? And you’re like, oh, maybe that’s it? You know, maybe it has to do with the fact that it’s helping the mitochondria and people’s feel better afterwards? Maybe that’s the mechanism. It’s possible, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We have to comment on that.
Evan Brand: Well, it’s a lot of good things happening. And then you mentioned the probiotic piece. So that’s going to help even more. So after we get someone on a killing protocol, there’s going to be good benefits there, your energy is probably going to get better just based on doing that. And then when you go to the next phase, if we’re going to come into the gut healing phase, you’re going to get even better than so it’s it’s really fun for us to kind of paint the picture here of just how how is someone going up, up up up better, better, better? And you’ve just outlined how so pretty I talked about it right here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They talked about a collusion the studies show this is BP stands for blueberry juice and probiotic exhibit a synergistic effect preventing the development of a and that’s non alcoholic fatty liver disease by protecting mitochondrial function, suppressing the damage of mitochondrial ultrastructure by reducing mitochondrial swelling, right. So mitochondrial damage by antibiotics, as well as we could do the same thing when we search, let’s say pesticides, or heavy metals or mold toxins, so we know that gut plays a big role and one helping to absorb those nutrients. But number two, also helping to have beneficial bacteria that modulate these, this inflammation and mitochondrial damage as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. Well said. Excellent.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it’s good that just a couple of studies. I mean, when we look at like we look at research a lot differently, so just kind of everyone there. We look at clinical outcomes in patients. And then we chase them back to what the literature says. The problem is a lot of people who are clinicians, they’ll look at the literature, and then they’ll try to then come up with a clinical like decision based on the literature. And that’s sometimes it’s really hard to do, because a lot of the PhDs and a lot of the research out there isn’t necessarily clinically driven, and maybe driven because someone has a PhD in this area. And they’re just they’re just studying that topic, because or maybe it’s an NIH funded study. Who knows, right? So we’re looking at things that are clinically driven, not research driven, because someone has decided to dedicate their life to this topic. And this is the study they’re choosing right?
Evan Brand: Now. It’s good that we can kind of pull out some studies to help backup what we’re saying. But it’s not like we go into PubMed to try to figure out exactly what we’re going to do the clinical stuff is really that’s where all the magic happens.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And some may say we have a confirmation bias and how we look for these things. But we’re not looking for out of the blue we’re looking for, because we’ve seen clinical outcomes support something is happening in that direction. And then we use the data, the research to say what could be if positive things are happening in this direction? A to B, what could be the mechanism of why that is? And so we kind of chase it backwards. versus the other way around?
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. And it’s just it’s a blast. It is fun for you to pull that stuff up. Right? Because, you know, we get we get used to our our methods, we get used to our results. But when you get to see in the literature like that antibiotics, causing mitochondrial damage is like, Oh, yeah, I forgot. That’s why we do this. It’s Yeah, we’re Exactly. We don’t want people to get damaged.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you get confident when you see things repeat itself. Clinically, you’re like, Okay, something’s happening here. Now what? So you’re going at it with a lot more confidence versus like, Hey, I think maybe, you know, I’ve heard this, it’s a hearsay kind of thing. No, you’ve seen it, you’ve seen it clinically? Well, here’s the confidence.
Evan Brand: Here’s the thing that’s always fun for me is when we’re on the topic of fatigue and gut infections. And so when you have a case where you do the follow up, and someone is reporting that they have significantly more energy, and you didn’t give them any energy supplements, you just fix their gut, you just gave them some liver, maybe some enzyme support, some gallbladder support, and then you killed the infections and all the sudden, boom, I’m 20% more energetic. I always smile and laugh simultaneously. Because it’s like, This is so fun. We have 20% more energy. And we did zero energy supplements. That’s just super cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s powerful. Now, if people start feeling a little bit worse, then we got to be very careful. So when people start feeling worse, I’m like, all right, we got to spend more time building up the adrenals, we got to make sure the diets clean, because if someone’s got his or, like, if you’re putting lots of bad foods in and you’re inflaming the gut, then your immune system and also your adrenals may be making more resources to deal with the inflammation in your gut. So we have to decrease the inflammation in our gut and support the adrenals by calming it down. Now, the adrenals have more resources. And of course, we always like supporting the adrenals ahead of time. So then you have natural, your more of your natural anti inflammatories, because conventional medicine when there’s serious gut issues, they’re going to give prednisone cortisol, well, let’s just support your body’s ability to make that naturally. And then when we go into a gut clearing phase, then we have more of those resources on board. And then patients are sensitive. I’m titrating the herbs in there slowly so we’re not overwhelming the system by killing more, you know bacterial toxins, LPs endotoxins, mycotoxins, we’re not overwhelming the lymphatic system that a toxification immune system. So we’re going to kind of really titrate things in a little bit slower if you’re more sensitive. And we may even add things like binders and glutathione too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, the glutathione is good for me. I had to take a break from it for a little while. It was just too strong. It does mobilize toxins to so this is all case by case basis. But yeah, I love glutathione when it works. But when you take too much, that’s no good. There’s always a right dose.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, if you’re slow, if you’re like more sensitive, always start low, work your way up. And then if you’re sensitive, you can always start with just a gentle binder first, as long as you’re not getting constipated. That’s a good first step on increasing things.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s great. So let’s see here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Um, the other component, I would say is people that have got issues tend to also have immune issues. We already talked about why 80% of your immune systems in the Galt, that’s the gastric associated lymphoid tissue that’s in the stomach. And then also the model that’s the mucosal associated lymphoid tissue, lymphoid meaning like lymphocytes, white blood cells, and that’s in the small intestine. And so if you have a lot of gut permeability issues, if your guts over responding well, what’s the most common autoimmune condition that affects people and mostly women, five times more women is autoimmune thyroid. And so if you have an autoimmune thyroid, that could also be affecting your energy because you know your thyroid gland is being attacked and your body is ability to generate thyroid hormone may be decreased. And it’s possible that your conventional doctors overlook that. And so knowing that there’s an autoimmune thyroid could be affecting your energy too. And if you have an attack, you could feel hyper where you’re like anxious, can’t sleep irritable, sweating, right? first and then you go into a hypo where you’re like tired, fatigued, depressed, right? So you could easily be going hyper and hypo swings based on autoimmune tax of the thyroid.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and once again, the hashimotos could be a side effect of something else. So even if you go to the endocrinologist, let’s say they were a more advanced endocrinologist, for example, hopefully they’re running thyroid antibodies TPO, TG maybe TSI. And they’re looking at that and maybe they’re treating your thyroid giving you desiccated glandulars, or nature thyroid, or just Synthroid or side ml. Even then you see how people can fall between the cracks and not get better. Because yeah, you’ve kind of cranked up the thyroid that was hypo due to autoimmunity. But you still never got to the gut infection that started at all.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: BINGO, BINGO, BINGO, BINGO 100%. That’s what we got to look at always the root cause. So anything else you wanted to talk about here on the gut and fatigue I did, we hit the thyroid, of course, I alluded to the adrenals earlier, because they play a huge role in regulating inflammation. And we know acute gut issues, they may be, they may be given a corticosteroid to calm down the gut inflammation, that’s possible too. So we want to support your body’s ability to do it naturally. I would also say supporting protein breakdown. So with maybe adding in free form amino acids, because protein can be very hard on the body to break down. So of course, dialing in enzymes and acids and maybe giving extra free form amino acids. So it’s taking stress off the digestive system to be able to access those amino acids as well.
Evan Brand: I think I think you’ve hit it all. I mean, I would just say, kind of where do you go next is you really have to get the data. I mean, we’ve talked about a lot, right. But if you don’t have the data, you don’t know what you’re up against. You don’t know what you’re doing. So, you know, I think the best advice I could give is if you’re dealing with these issues, test, don’t guess. And so, you know, feel free to reach out to Dr. J. Justin at JustinHealth.com. And he can run labs on you anywhere in the world and send them to your door and jump on a call and discuss it make a great protocol to help you to get better. Same thing for me my website, EvanBrand.com. And we’re available we love helping you all we’re grateful to be in this position. So you know, sure you know a lot of you listening or kind of do it yourselfers. That’s what led you to be smart and find a podcast anyway. Because you want to kind of educate yourself, but there’s a certain point where it’s okay to reach out. And I tried to fix myself for a long time. And you spend more money and you spend more time doing that. So you know, feel free to reach out and get a guide.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and then you’re available at EvanBrand.com worldwide. We’re available worldwide and we’re clinicians, we have our sleeves rolled up and we’re in the trenches every day, dealing with patients. Also, if you’re listening to this don’t just kind of glom on to one thing. So we see lots of people they’re like, they come in like Oh, I know what’s h pylori or I know it’s Candida or I know it SIBO keep an open mind on what’s happening because you have the right to have more than one issue going on at the same time. And for instance, Evans original story was Evan had not could have it wrong if you had h pylori, Giardia and crypto. That’s correct. Yeah, yeah, h pylori, giardia crypto, those are some serious infections. Any one of those infections is serious and could could have created the symptoms Evan was having yet he had all three at the same time. So if Evan was like, Oh, it’s only H. pylori, you know, he may have missed the fact that grd and crypto were involved too. So go into with an open mind and you have the right to have more than one infection happening at same time. Sad but true. But either way there are solutions to work on it and fix it.
Evan Brand: I was tired. Man, I was tired. Now that was a that was a that was a level of exhaustion that just doesn’t even seem real. I mean, that’s how you know something’s wrong when you’re that tire. But you know, hopefully, with this education we’re providing people can reach out and work on this before it gets to that crisis level because it’s much easier to pull you out if you’re not that deep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now Evan can you go to your conventional medical doctor or a gastroenterologist and typically get these infections picked up on?
Evan Brand: No, definitely not the testing is just so outdated, you know, it’s not sensitive, like the DNA stuff we’re using. So that’s the downside is if you go to the gastro doc down the road, say, Hey, I think I’ve got Giardia, I heard these two guys on the internet talk about it. They’ll probably just laugh in your face and say, Well, you didn’t travel to any third world countries. So you don’t have it. But if you if you really want to Sally, I’ll test you on they’ll run the outdated test and then everything comes back negative and then we’ll say see, I told you it was all in your head, just, you know, take an acid blocker.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So yes, my opinion is very similar. So the more acute you are, especially with typical gastrointestinal symptoms, the greater chance they’ll pick you up, especially if you came back from like Mexico or some kind of a country like Bali where infections are probable, right? But now what do you do? If your infections aren’t really gut based symptoms, they’re the fatigue or the brain fog, well, then how does that get picked up, you’re typically never going to get picked up for that you’re more than likely to, to get a psych referral for an antidepressant, right, then to get a gut test, and Evan already alluded to some of the technology they have isn’t going to be as up to par. So we have a little bit you know, more access to the DNA technology a little bit more sensitive. And then also like H. pylori testing that they may run a breath test, right? Urea breath test and look for elevated levels of co2, it’s possible, but that may miss an infection. And if it’s more subclinical, you may need a more sensitive test to pick it up. So if you’re listening, and you’re like, Hey, I’m gonna go to my MD that may not be the solution, I may not get you the answers you want. And if you don’t have the typical gut symptoms, diarrhea, bloating, gas, a lot of stomach discomfort, and irritability, you may not even they may not even want to run a test, because those symptoms don’t match with what they think the problem could be.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. And you know, it sounds like we’re like picking on him. Right? And we sort of are and that’s fine. I love picking on them, because they’re failing people. And it makes me sad. Because I was there I was sitting in the doctor’s office trying to get help. And I was told that I just needed an acid blocking medication. I told the doc, no, I feel better when I take it. enzymes that actually increased my stomach acid, I think you’re wrong. She said, That’s not possible. You’re gonna hurt yourself, you need to stop taking supplements stop all dietary supplement, the FDA, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And and that was it. And that’s when I signed off and said, No, I’m done.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I do recommend, and I think you’re in the same way, I do recommend patients that have chronic issues, or acute issues, at least go see your conventional medical doctor just to get checked off that there’s nothing glaring that’s going on. And that that way, if you work for someone like myself, for you, and then they’ve kind of already been looked at, and they’ve kind of already know, okay, conventional medicine is kind of done all they can do. And, you know, functional medicine is the next best option at that point.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m not saying we’re the all knowing at all, if you’re bleeding out of your butt, you need to go confirm you don’t have some type of a bleeding ulcer or colon cancer or you have some type of a polyp issue or diverticulitis and you need colon surgery. I mean, there are certain things that we can’t help with. But for these more functional, non pathological issues, we’re definitely going to be able to help.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we can help with all those issues. Once they’re stable. If they’re unstable, though, conventional medicine does a really good job on stabilizing very sensitive issues. But once they’re stable, now what because for the most part, it’s going to be just symptom drug management for the rest of your life. Right? If you look at what they talked about, it’s, hey, we’re managing your gut issue versus let’s actually get to the root underlying issue. And sometimes management’s good when things are acute and flared. But now when they’re stable now what we want to go beyond just who wants to just manage their diarrhea for the rest of their life? That’s crazy, right?
Evan Brand: Oh, God. Well, that happens every day, doesn’t it? It’s happening today while we’re doing this call somebody is in the doctor’s office right now about to get an antispasmodic drug for their diarrhea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and that may be fine acutely, but then what’s next? So get your health issues under control from a you know, stable standpoint, and then work on the next step with a good functional medicine doctor. Well, everyone was excellent chatting with y’all anything you want to leave us with Evan?
Evan Brand: No, that’s it. We’re just ranting at this point. So if you need help, please reach out. JustinHealth.com, EvanBrand.com. Take great care yourself. We’ll be back. Have a good one, y’all.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye now.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Staying Fit with Adrenal Dysfunction and Chronic Fatigue – Is it Possible? | Podcast #308
If you have adrenal dysfunction and chronic fatigue, exercise is probably the last thing you feel like doing. Your adrenal glands are responsible for keeping the well-being of your body in balance through hormones. These glands also produce the hormone cortisol, which is released during your fight-or-flight response. As you can imagine, cortisol is beneficial when you need to be alert and escape danger. For more on exercise with adrenal dysfunction and chronic fatigue, listen to the entire podcast!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:38 Exercise Movements, Use of Bands, Etc
15:37 Hacks to Increase Exercise Performance
18:53 Post Recovery Stuff
29:39 Why Exercise is Important
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand, Evan, how are we doing my friend?
Evan Brand: Doing really good, excited to dive into this topic, I’ve suffered tremendously with exercise intolerance for a while, and luckily have pulled myself out of it. And I can empathize with people that want to exercise, but they literally physically can’t. Or if they do, they crash out, which is what was happening to me. So let me just share a story just for a minute, and then we’ll dive in some to the details of it. But there are different things that can make people exercise intolerant. For me, I think it was a combination of factors like everything, but I was to the point where, if I did try to push myself, it would take an extremely long time to recover, you know, two, three, sometimes four days, I would still be recovering from the the workout and I thought, Okay, well, as you and I talked about, we got to adjust the levers, I got to lower the intensity, I got to lower the duration and the frequency. So I did, but it wasn’t enough, I still felt like no matter if it’s a 10 minute or 30 minute, I was still drained. So for me, I think it was detox, I think it was getting my mitochondria working better, definitely getting adrenals working better. I think neurotransmitters played a role too, because, you know, you could have low motivation and low drive if dopamine is effective. So we’ll go into that. But that’s, that was my story.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very important. I think anyone that’s health conscious, right, like you’re moving a couple of levers when you’re health conscious, right, you’re really working on drinking clean water, you’re working on improving your food quality, maybe adjusting your macros, maybe you’re taking some supplements. And of course, the The other thing you will be putting a lot of focus on will be movement, right. And I just call exercise movement. So like the first met, the three levers that we can move we already kind of highlighted is frequency, how many times per week we’re exercising intensity, could be how intense the movement is a compound movement that uses multiple joints, like a front squat, or a single leg deadlift with a row kind of component, or something like a bicep curl, that’s like, you know, just your elbow joint, that kind of a single joint movement, that’s more bodybuilding based, and, and less kind of metabolism based, right full body bass. So we have frequency intensity, the type of movements and that also can include the rest time between sets, too, right. So you can also increase, you can do more intense stuff, and then just have more rest time to kind of be back to baseline in between. And the last is duration, how long your workout is, that’s helpful, too. So some data by Charles poliquin, who talked about cortisol really starts to increase, you know, 45 to 50 minutes in. And again, that’s gonna be for someone that’s more on the healthy side. So I always tell people, like keep your workout, if you’re more stressed, keep it under 20 minutes, that’s a pretty good rule of thumb, you know, and just try to do more circuit movements, where you do movements back to back to back, that can be helpful. But then we kind of have to gauge and how your body is adapting to the exercise. It’s all about adaptation. And so exercise is a stress, and we want our body to be able to adapt to that stress, so we grow stronger. Now, if that stress is too much, where our body is not able to adapt to it, meaning we’re getting weaker, we’re getting more tired, that defeats the purpose of exercise, we want our body to positively adapt to that stress. If it can’t, then we have to move those three levers frequency, intensity, duration, and we may even have to switch out of certain movements, we may have to switch into more yoga or more walking or more, you know, Tai Chi types of movements in the beginning and just kind of go from there. So there’s a couple different levers. And so there’s three questions I always ask my patients, my patients that are listening, they know this, do you feel better after the workout than when you started, you want to always feel like your exercise is energizing you. That’s a good place to know that you’re adapting to your exercise you’re able to adapt to it. Number two is you can emotionally repeat the exercise afterwards. Once your heart rates kind of brought back down to the baseline after you stopped your movement. Can you emotionally do it again? Are you like, wow, I’m done. Right? And then number three is going to be last question is how do you feel later on that day, if it’s a morning workout, or that next morning, if it’s an afternoon or nighttime workout? Do you feel overly tired hit by a bus overly sore? Now if you’re adding in a front squat or a deadlift for the first time, you may feel a little sore. But in general, how do you feel? Do you feel overly tired overly sore hit by a bus? If so we want to adjust some of those movements for sure.
Evan Brand: Yep, good, good points. For me. I don’t have to count or measure or anything like that or time to workouts. I just get to a certain point with lifting weights. I primarily lift weights. I mean, I do like to go on bike rides, I’ll take the kids that’s pretty hard work with the legs. I do like my roll machine. So I’ll do that. But I don’t really measure count or anything I get to the point in the workout where my pump goes into more of like you can just feel that you’re becoming catabolic, you feel like your muscle tissue is now being used as an energy supply. Now, people that are new to it or if they haven’t been exercising for a long time. They may not be that in tune with their body. But for me, it starts out with the heavy lifts, I’m getting the pump, I feel good, I feel the blood flow. And then it gets to the point where I feel like I don’t want to say I’m hurting myself. But the dumbbell that used to feel pretty good and challenging now just feels like a frickin rock. And I’m like, oh, okay, I think that means I’m done now, and then I end the workout. If I go past that point, then it’s too much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. So that that’s a really good place, you can also incorporate bands, what’s nice about bands is the loading is the highest at your concentric phase, right? Imagine I’m doing a dumbbell curl, right? At the highest point, the The band has the most force in it, right the most intensity or force. And then as I lower right, this is the East centric face. I’m Ilan gating my muscle, so in a bicep curl, I’m moving the bar down to the dumbbell downward, the load is actually decreasing as I’m lowering it. So you have a decrease in force on that essentra curve, where like, if a dumbbell or barbell was there, it’s the same the whole way, like, so the benefit of the decrease in load is most of your muscle, shredding, or depletion happens in the E centric. So what does that mean? That means you can focus on really light, really nice, slow lowering phases that those two things, it burns more muscle, right. And then number two, most injuries happen, because people are bouncing the weight, or in that lowering phase, they kind of have a jerky move where they kind of relaxed the weight, and they catch it at the bottom of that movement. And like what sofa benchpress, that’s on your chest or military press that’s on your shoulder. Or if it’s a bicep curl, it’s at the bottom right, and you’re kind of bouncing that way, or a deadlift that’s at the bottom right where you bounce. So when you do a nice lowering phase, you prevent that bounce from happening. And that’s where almost always all the injuries happen. So if you do a nice lowering a nice slow lowering phase, maybe a three to four second, he centric think he centric he long gait. So have a nice, slowly centric, you’re not going to hurt yourself as much. And then number two, you’re still burning a bit of a bit of muscle. And number three, if you’re still really sore excessively, one, you can switch to more bands, and the bands will give you that decreased load. As you as you kind of move, which is nice, it really helps the muscles give it a little more recovery, but still gives you that increased load at the top, so you have more concentric load, right? So when your muscles the shortest, right that benchpress at the top position, the loads the highest, and it’s going to be even more than a weight would be right. And then it drops off on the lowering. So it’s a little bit safer. And you’re not going to overly kill your muscles in that lowering II centric phase.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s safer, too, if you don’t have a spotter, right? If you’re trying to do all this stuff at home, I mean, I’ve been guilty before of wearing myself out getting past a point of fatigue, where I’m like, Oh, I could really use a spotter right now. But I don’t have one. So the bands would be safer in that aspect too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, bands are safer and are of course, just using like a dumbbell is going to be helpful too. Because dumbbell obviously there’s no bar across there. So you’re not gonna expect to fixate yourself, your lower too much. And then you’re going to get a lot of fatigue on the lowering. And that’s what helps. But the bands do help for sure. And it gives you that really good ability to generate a lot of force. And also it’s safer. So I do like that as a good option.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and someone’s listening and they’re gonna say, well, bands where the heck do I get them? What strength? Do I get them? They usually come in variety packs, don’t they? Like there’s going to be like a black one, a green one. And they’re going to be different like intensities, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, I like the X3 bar for some of the some of the the bigger bodybuilding movements because the band’s really thick and it can generate hundreds and hundreds of pounds of force. So I like the x3 bar for that. So like for deadlift, that bar that that strap or that a cable is going to create a band. I’m sorry, that band will generate hundreds of pounds of force. Same thing on the bench, same thing on a tricep extension. And so it’s very helpful. So I do like that.
Evan Brand: Cool. Any updates on your rower?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, it’s coming. I got the concept D rower. So I try to do a little bit more of the rolling for my aerobic stuff just because I like things that bring me into extension so much cardio is like your inflection, whether you’re on elliptical or riding a bike or whatever. I like kind of bringing more extension into my body so… easy! Sorry. That’s my dog. That’s my dog. We’re live here.
Evan Brand: I love it. I love the rower. I mean, to me, it’s, it’s, I feel so good on it. And I never really thought about what you’re saying. But yeah, most exercises are you’re kind of like going into monkey mode, you’re not really pulling back and stretching. That is like one of the only things that and the seated row, like on an actual machine with weights. Those are probably two of the only things that really kind of pull you pull you out and stretch you out like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally. Oh, by the way, I have my my natural pesticide guy here, which is kind of cool. So he’s actually spraying essential oils around my perimeter. So he’s spraying cedar, some citronella, some orange peel some olive leaf, just to keep some of the bugs down. So and then we found a bee’s nest in the back on the ground. So we’re putting a little bit of boric acid in diatomaceous earth in there to kind of to knock that out. So we try to, you know, just a little education here, we’re trying to do some natural kind of insecticide solutions, because a lot of those toxins can be very harmful to kids and, and women and children, especially guys, too, because they’re very estrogenic. So we try to use natural solutions here. So you guys see that live in the flesh here.
Evan Brand: Yep. And if you are exposed to all that crap, whether it’s from you spraying it or hiring somebody else to spray and you’re getting exposed to it, that’s going to affect mitochondria. And that’s going to affect energy. So when you get into this whole thing of chronic fatigue, adrenals exercise and tolerance, a lot of it has to do with toxicity, I will tell you 100% with confidence, when I’m doing binders, I’m stronger when I’m on detox support chlorella, whether it’s charcoal, Clay zeolites. I’m always stronger with some binders in my system. So for me, the toxins and for everyone really, the toxins are kryptonite. And that’s just a fact of the modern world. So wherever you can reduce those, reduce them, I mean, think about your kids, right? You go to a playground, my wife took my kids to a couple playgrounds over the summer, and the guy shows up with a huge tank of glyphosate on his back and just bombs the whole playground, because there were weeds growing up in the mulch and it goes up, well can’t go to that playground anymore. So it’s annoying that we have to be this observant, but it’s kind of what it takes in the modern world. I mean, unfortunately, in the 21st century, everywhere you look in turn, whether it’s the the air, or the water supply, or the ground, or the dirt or the soil you’re eating food out of there are chemicals that are disrupting your mitochondria, they’re disrupting cell membranes that are affecting your gut bacteria. And so I get annoyed with just the diet and exercise conversations that you see in the mainstream because they make it just like it’s that like, you’re not motivated enough. You just need to be strong pain is weakness, leaving the body push through, push through, it’s you literally from a biochemical, mechanical, mitochondrial perspective, neurotransmitter perspective, you can’t push through, you can’t so you know, you got poor Jane Doe, at the at the fitness class. And you know, she’s 50, or 100 pounds overweight, and she just thinks that she’s just fat and lazy. And that’s why that’s her problem. But it’s like, no, you’re toxic. Let me show you on paper. And I’m going to explain why your personal trainer doesn’t have a clue why you can’t tolerate the exercise and why you’re sore for a week. He just thinks you need to just quit being a sissy and drink another protein shake. No, that’s not the answer. So I love that we can intertwine the functional medicine piece into the exercise piece. Because the mainstream fitness community, it’s sad, it’s all this boot camp, you know, military CrossFit mentality. But when someone doesn’t perform like everyone else, those people get ostracized, and they don’t have a clue what’s underneath the hood.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, everyone, you got to treat everyone like an individual. And everyone’s coming at this a little bit differently. So you want to meet people where they’re at exercise, you know, and a lot of these things is going to be a stressor, so you want to apply the appropriate amount of stress. So you give your body the chance to adapt, it’s never the the exercise, it’s the ability for your body to adapt, and you have to kind of meet your body where it is. So if you’re someone that’s obese, it may just be walking a couple thousand, maybe 1000 steps or just squeezing your muscles doing an eccentric movement, you know, that may be enough based on where you’re at. So you got to figure out where you’re at and try to go maybe 10%, above where you’re at, on a day in day out basis.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I’m not trying to poopoo personal trainers, I used to do some personal training, I had some certifications in different movements, kettlebells and things and I helped a lot of people but so so you can tweak the exercises, meaning you can tone things down for those people. But there’s at a certain point, you at a certain point, a personal trainer has a limit to what they can do for you. Meaning if you literally have so much toxicity that’s affecting mitochondria, you literally can’t build up your your weight, you can’t go 10 minutes longer. You can’t, you know, do three more planes, you just can’t. So then that’s where you got to come in. And we look at the labs to try to figure out what’s under the hood with these people. Why can’t they Why are they such a poor recovery. So like, well measure lactic acid on organic acids testing. And we know that when you have bacterial overgrowth, for example, that it produces lactic acid certain species do. And so if this person is sore without even working out, they’re going to be really sore when they work out. So we’ll focus on the gut, we’ll get that the production of lactic acid down from the gut bugs, and then boom, now they can handle that lactic acid bucket is drained now they can handle the exercise and the production there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, exactly. You know, I’ve taken personal training sessions as a personal trainer for a long time and I’ve been trained by people where I feel too sore for a couple days afterwards. And usually if you feel too sore, it’s you put too much intensity in it. The dose wasn’t dialed in for you because you’re Giving your body the chance to heal and recover because you get stronger on the rest time. And if you created so much damage for 234 days later, you’re really excessively so you did too much you’re creating scar tissue in the muscle. And that’s not good. So you really want to individualize this. And I, you know, I see patients from all different walks of life from chronic fatigue autoimmune patients that are bedridden to people that are professional athletes trying to perform at the highest level, and you want to meet the demand where that person is at because it’s all about getting their body to function just a little bit better every day, and everyone is at a different place on their journey. So I think the individualization is so important.
Evan Brand: Do you want to get into some of the hacks at all like some of the things we do to kind of increase exercise performance? Because I’ve got several ideas at the top of my tongue here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, sure. I did a video on this last week where I talked about some of the ideas in regards to movement stuff like exercise stuffs, I think the easiest first thing for is really good lowering or good eccentric movements, I think are a great way to burn a whole bunch of muscle and, and allow you to use more weight and not get hurt. Because I mentioned earlier, it’s the lowering phase, the centric phase where people get hurt. And when you do a nice low, slow movement on the centric, you’re less likely to get hurt. And number two, you’re going to create more burning of that muscle, more depletion of that muscle. And as long as you don’t overdo it, it’s a good first step.
Evan Brand: I was into bodybuilding in high school. So I was doing a lot of those pre workout drinks. And they were just so bad for you. I mean, it was all just hundreds and hundreds of milligrams of caffeine, artificial colors. I’m sure there were sucralose and aspartame and potentially other garbage in there. And it just wasn’t good. I tried to pick clean choices. But you know, at the time, there weren’t that many good clean products on the market. So now there are there are some professional companies that you and I use that have some pre trained type nutrients, things that have some creatine, some tyrosine, some acetyl, l carnitine, can be very helpful. A little bit of like green coffee bean extract for caffeine can be good. There’s actually a nutrient called peak ATP, it’s a company and they’ve make so much like literally just straight ATP, and you can actually take it in powder form so that for me really, really helps. And then I like all the nitric oxide stuff. So I’ll do like a teaspoon of beet powder. I’ll do before the sauna, but also do before exercise, the beet powder is awesome. And then I like a lot of the adaptogen. So rhodiola makes me feel really good. As a as an endurance support. We use it for athletes, as you mentioned. And Holy basil’s is good. B vitamins a course that’s always low hanging fruit, there’s some good really good forms of creatine that we use, those can be helpful. And I think that’s about it. Are there any other like pre train nutrients that you like or that you use?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you kind of hit a bunch of them. So off the bat, you know, creatine and branched chain amino acids are wonderful, and it gets great, a little bit of caffeine can be very helpful to kind of mobilize free fatty acids. So whether you’re doing like a cold brew, coffee in your smoothie with the amino acids can be great. I do my Mito synergy support because it’s got some extra carnitine, extra ribose, a little extra creatine in there, some HLA some B vitamins, just those low hanging fruits are wonderful before workout. But I’d say creatine, branched chain amino acids, maybe a little bit of caffeine, especially if it’s a morning or afternoon workout, don’t do that, if it’s a nighttime workout. That’s a good first step, I think, to really hit it out of the park. And then we talked about movement patterns, I like really focusing on the centric, I also like focusing on circuit. So doing two to three movements back to back to back can be very helpful, because you can get a lot of volume done meaning a lot of reps and sets in, you know, smaller amount of time. So that’s great, because you can have a 15 to 20 minute workout that may have may have taken you 30 or 45 minutes if you did it one exercise at a time. So it gives you the ability to to make it more practical, which is great.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I think the next thing we should hit on is kind of the post recovery stuff. So what about the person who is getting into the exercise? Maybe they’re not tolerating it? Well, maybe their recovery time is a bit too long the wanting to shorten that I think the bcaas could be great before and or after. And then I’m a huge fan of like a Grass Fed Whey Protein Shake, but make a smoothie out of it. So there’s a couple grass fed ways that you and I use it are super good quality, and we’ll throw in like a scoop of coconut butter. If you can tolerate nuts, maybe a scoop of almond butter may be good. And then I’m a big fan of some of the Oregon meats too. Whether it’s actual Oregon meat or like some organ meat capsules, those can be really helpful for recovery and just making sure your body has the role nutrition it needs. And then good sleep. I mean, you can’t forget about good sleep. I mean, I see so many people who are moms that are trying to hit the gym or do whatever, five times a week, but they’re up too late. And they’re up too early. You know, they’re up at 430 in the morning to go hit the treadmill. It’s like ah, I’d prefer you sleep in until 630 or seven. Do that workout later and not miss your cortisol peak because the problem is if you’re up too early to exercise, you’re really missing that cortisol peak. It’s kind of like you took your iPhone off the charger when it was only at 50%. We’ve seen based on thousands of reviewing labs that the cortisol doesn’t really peak until around sunrise or so. And if you’re up at 430, the battery is not fully charged. So now that cortisol is going to just halfway peak, and then it’s going to crash much sooner, so you’re just not going to get the best bang for your buck, if you’re doing those super, super early workouts now isn’t better than nothing, probably. But I’m just giving you a couple details that we’ve, we’ve seen.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, when your nervous system is a little bit more fragile. When you have more adrenal issues, doing a later workout in the day is probably not the best, because that’s going to get more of that sympathetic nervous system kind of stimulated. And it made the the more unhealthy or the more out of balance your adrenals are the harder it, it takes your adrenals to wind down and kind of downshift from that sympathetic adrenal stimulating workout. So there’s going to be some adrenal stimulation, of course, right, which isn’t bad thing. But the question is, Do you have enough time to adapt and come down from that workout before bed, and that’s where it may affect your ability to repair before bed. So that’s why doing a workout, let’s say before two o’clock is ideal, you know, and again, the healthier you are on, the more you can downshift, the better, right, I typically recommend try to give yourself at least two to three hours to come down. So if you want to be in bed by 11, you want that workout to be done by eight for sure. That way you have at least three hours to come down from it, and try to do it more in the morning because you have that natural cortisol peak. And if that cortisol peak is going while you’re stimulating cortisol, you’re just more in harmony with your natural rhythm of cortisol going up. And adrenal stimulation going up, it’s kind of like, hey, more light at night. And when when melatonin goes up, are they’re not going to work because cortisol is going down at night. And light goes up at night, which can stimulate cortisol. So you kind of have the inverse thing happening with lights. And with cortisol at night, it’s the same thing with exercise and cortisol. So you rather do it when you have more harmony going on. But I understand some people that may not be an option. And if that is just try to give yourself more time. And really try to make sure that it’s not throwing off your sleep rhythm. And if it is adjust the frequency, the intensity and the duration, so you can recover from it and not mess up your sleep.
Evan Brand: And this is tough to do a podcast on because there’s so many different people with different work schedules. And well, my, my kids are with me on these days. So I can’t work out in the morning on these days. And I take my kids to school on this day, you know, so obviously, what we’re saying these are generalities, I know you have to work it into your schedule. But yeah, if you could do like a morning workout, I think that’s smart. But not an early morning workout. I don’t think people should be setting an alarm to get up at 4am to go jump on the treadmill at 4:30am. I just don’t think that’s smart. But if you were up with the sun at seven, and you could do it, that would be good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, ideally, for sure. Now, if someone visits us their work schedule, and they can get to bed by between eight and nine o’clock, so they they’re still getting at least seven hours of sleep. Sure, that’s at least better than nothing. So you just got to make sure the sleep is is compensating for the time getting up early for sure. But I agree, you know, the more you’re in harmony with the sun, the more your body likes that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, ashwagandha can be used in the evening, I remember I would do that if I had some late workouts that would kind of stimulate me. If I did like some ashwagandha at night, it would help help kind of calm it down you and I’ve talked about many times how it helps to regulate cortisol. So that’s what adaptogens do. If you’re too low, it kind of brings you back to balance if you’re too high and can bring you back to balance. So let’s say you did a eight o’clock workout tried to go to bed at 930 You’re still kind of ramped up maybe capsule or two, I like to use some liquid gel caps of ashwagandha tincture, and that really settles you down pretty quick.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% agree. Yeah. 100%. Great. That makes a lot of sense. So I think we hit some of the exercise kind of options, right? We talked about amino acids and nutrients pre post during we talked about different styles of exercises. I would say one thing in there, if you don’t have a lot of time to BOD or some kind of an interval on the cardio cardio side, whether it’s like an elliptical or treadmill or or bike, we’re a bigger fan of the rowers because you’re getting more extension in your body and there’s tends to be less extension with cardios and we tend to be more inflection throughout the day right at a keyboard right typing, all that stuff brings our body more into flexion. So using more extensions stuff can be really helpful. So I like more extension movements like we already chatted about. And I like a rower for that and you can do a 32nd 20-20 or 32nd high intensity movement followed by a Tabata which may be a 10 second rest period all the way up to a peak eight which may be a 92nd rest period. And you can just adjust the rest period and the exercise period to kind of suit your body so anywhere between a 10 to 32nd. High Intensity full out, you know as fast as you can go followed by a 10 second to 92nd rest period. That’s very helpful for increasing your metabolism and putting on muscle too.
Evan Brand: I tell you on that rower, what I’ll typically do is I’ll do 500 meter sets, you know so typically with like weightlifting in regards to building muscle people, you’re going to want to be looking for around three, maybe four sets of 10 to 15 Just depending on how you know what how you’re feeling what your goal is, but with the rower, I’ll do 500 meters as a set. And it’s give or take around two minutes to do that, man, I’ll tell you, you want a full body blood flow, that rower does it because you know your legs, you’re pushing to kind of slide yourself back, and then you’re pulling, and then hopefully, you’re, you’re fully pulling back, I think a lot of people stopped too soon. But if you’re pulling that bar all the way back to the chest, and then you go back in, and man, I feel great on it. So it’s-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s using your hamstrings to kind of bring yourself back closer to the machine to so you’re getting a little bit of extension on the quads, a little bit of flexion on the hamstrings, and then you’re getting some bicep and some and some rhomboids and some upper back, which is really nice. So I agree, I think it’s really good movement pattern.
Evan Brand: I put it on Max, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s kind of hard. Like if I was on a desert island, would it be the only piece of equipment No, I’d probably bring like a kettlebell maybe, or a dumbbell on the desert island. But it, rowers pretty dang close to the all in one solution, if you’re somebody who’s just looking to get your heart rate up, but also you could build some muscle, I put it on the max setting. So it is it’s the most resistance. And then if you pull on that thing really hard or really quick, you increase the resistance more. So yeah, I mean, you can get a pump, you can build some, some good back muscles and arms and deltoids using that and some traps. I mean, you’re gonna hit your traps a little bit on the road. So I’m a huge fan.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I like kettlebell swings as well. I mean, the only issue with the kettlebell swing is when you go into the East centric on the kettlebell swing, there is no low, slowly centric, it’s gonna be fast. So you’ve got to make sure you’re in a little bit better condition on the kettlebell. So you can go you know, have a really good explosive, ie sedgewick. And concentric because that eccentric when that kettlebell is coming down, you’re not you can’t lower that speed, it’s coming down at full speed, which is great, because you have to absorb it and use those hips to kind of soak in and grab that momentum, which is great. People that are beginners, they tend to use their back more and they can get hurt. So kettlebells I think there’s a really simple movement where you can kind of walk by it a couple times a day, and do you know some sets to failure on it, just make sure you know how to do it right. You have some good forum, find a trainer that can kind of walk you through the movement pattern, so you feel comfortable and confidence you don’t get hurt.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I was gonna say I probably in a kettlebell situation, I’d probably pay for a couple hours of training on it, because I definitely hurt my back. When I first started. I didn’t know what the heck I was doing. I just looked at some videos, I thought, Oh, yeah, this seems about right. Now, there’s some minor tweaks that can really affect how that load bearing hits your back. So for people, you know, that are not, you’re not an athlete, I would not go straight to a kettlebell.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Yeah. 100%. And then I’d like a lot of body weight stuff. So I have like the push up bars I like just because I can get a really good deep push up most people, man, they do have push ups, right? They do have push ups. I like the bar. So I can just get really in deep, get a good full range of motion. And I keep my wrist kind of in a neutral format holding the bar versus like this, which I don’t I don’t think it’s the best thing. You know, it hurts the wrist. Yeah, it hurts. So you can kind of keep it nice and neutral. You can go nice and deep. And that can have a nice, good eccentric on there, which is wonderful.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so you’re using the like, the handles, yeah, like here, we have each handle for the, for the push ups. Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, like that. And it goes really good. They have some that do a rotation thing, which is okay, too. I mean, you can hit the packs pretty good there too. But just to be able to go deep in there and be able to keep your wrist neutral, I think is wonderful.
Evan Brand: I love pull ups. I mean, I tell you, I got extremely strong doing pull ups. But for people that are beginners pull ups, you might not even be able to do one and that’s okay, what you could even do is use like a little step stool, and just jump up there and just hold yourself up and the pull up position. That’s how I started out was just holding at the peak of the pull up. And then eventually I just let myself down slowly, and then pull up again. And then I was to the point where I could do three sets of 10 on pull up, I swear to you, man, that’s exhausting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you go search online, like pull up assist, you can get bands, they kind of hook around and there’s like three or four bands. And then you can add a band for the for the intensity on the assist. And so what I’ll do is I’ll go in, I’ll do as many pull ups, which is you know, palms facing you or chin ups, palms facing away, right chin ups, more lat pull up more biceps, and I’ll do as many as I can the failure. And then I’ll go in and then put the bands on right after my knee and then I’ll go do it again to failure. So that’s a pretty good kind of a nice drop set where you go as much as you can bodyweight. And then you jump in with a little bit of help. And that can be super, super helpful. Just just people don’t people aren’t used to controlling their body weight like that. And it’s really functional to be able to move your body in a way where you are, you know, in control of your body from a weight standpoint, like you’re able to, to move and functionally manage your body in space and time without any extra stuff on there think it’s really functional.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, that’s the thing that people listening if you’re like, I just don’t like exercise. I hate exercise. I’m not into it. I’d rather go hiking Look, I hear you. But the benefits are not just in and out of the workout. The benefits apply to picking up your kids the benefits apply to playing with your grandchildren, the benefits apply to doing yard work. Bringing in heavy bags of groceries and you don’t want to make multiple trips, you can grab all the groceries in one trip. And so it’s just awesome to be able to to build muscle. If you’re climbing ladders, if you’re in construction, I mean just that, as you’re mentioning, it’s functional, this stuff applies. This is not just for vanity, this stuff really applies to everything if I weren’t in decent shape. my four year old, she’s heavy. When I go to pick up that kid, it’s awesome to be able to have the muscles to just make her a dumbbell. I just pick her up like a dumbbell. You know, it’s it’s fun. If I were in bad shape, you know, I maybe hurt my back, just bending over to pick her up. So this stuff is the stuff is great. And especially as you get into 60s and 70s. I mean, we know that with bone density being a big issue, we have so many clients with osteopenia, osteoporosis issues, yeah, we can give you supplements for that. But the best free thing you can do is to do weight bearing exercises to really preserve your bone health as you age.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I always look for movements that translate to me living my life better. So anytime you can move your body, you know, in a way where you’re managing the weight of your body, that translates to you managing the weight of your body when you’re, for instance, roughhousing with your kids in the pool or something like or like I’m throwing my kids up in the air, like one handed like, you know, one handed, like, Where did that get shot, put kind of thing. It’s like, I need really good shoulder stabilization and really good lat strength, and core stabilization to be able to make that happen. So it’s nice to do movements that can translate to you being able to play with your family or friends or do your sport or do your hobby. So that’s really important to think of like, what movements do I want to do in my workout that will translate to me living my life better. So always kind of think a little bit deeper. Most people just think like, hey, what movements to make myself look better naked. That’s cool. I have to run with that. But now we got to think a little bit deeper now.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I think if someone’s listening, and they’re like, well, I’m pretty much disabled. In terms of my physical performance. I’m just super weak. I would try a plank. I mean, a plank is a game changer, where you’re just getting on, you’re kind of resting on your elbows and forearms. And you’re just holding yourself even if you can only do a plank for 10 seconds. My Lord, I can’t tell you core strength, you hear about this term core strength, it really does apply, I just got back into doing some planks pretty regularly. And even just sitting in a chair, I sit better in a chair now having more core strength. Yeah, I think it’s great. You just don’t fold in, you know, if you have no core strength, you just like you said you fold in, you get into the turtle the turtle position on the computer, and it’s just not good. The next forward and get the core strength, you’re more just confident with the way you sit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, also just just get a stand desk that allows you to stand throughout the day, like I’m standing right now, I’m using core strength just being able to stand right, that’s super helpful. Or let’s say you sit a lot and you don’t have the money to invest in a state that’s well, let’s just try to invest maybe in a Swiss ball, a physio ball or Swiss ball that will allow you to sit but now you have to engage your core a little bit so you don’t fall right. That’s a good first step. And then you can move to a stand desk where you’re upright, and you can kind of move and like look at my body posture throughout the day, I’m pretty upright, I have to pull my backpack, pull my arms back. So I’m in a much better position to be more athletic. And to get my my cold body activated versus in this like sitting down position, which is totally unhealthy.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I kind of bend my legs a little too, I’m standing down too. And so you know, I mean, my hamstrings are pretty flexed right now just standing here talking. So that’s pretty cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you can buy an anti fatigue mat, which is fine, you can do that too. I’m kind of moving a lot. When I’m standing I’m on a treadmill, so it’s not necessary. For me I like to move a little bit. So that’s helpful. And then it kind of have a slight bend my knees, take the stress off my my lower back so that I think those are really good first steps. And I also have some QB pedals when I sit down, I can also pedal a little bit. So it’s good to have a lot of unstructured exercise that you’re doing throughout the day where you’re getting some movement and it’s not yourself being in the gym doing this workout, you’re kind of adding some movement here adding some movement there. And it’s it’s nice to be able to get that 10,000 steps or so a day, just to make sure your body’s moving. You’re not overly sedentary. Because if you’re getting 2000 steps a day, but you’re in the gym for 30 minutes. Is that really healthy. I mean, you definitely want some steps, you definitely want some movements as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, if you just want to opt out of the whole thing and just become a farmer, then that’s an option too. But if you’re like a farmer that’s just sitting on a tractor, you’re not getting much exercise, but think of our ancestors, right? I mean, they didn’t have to think about exercise the way we do. It just happened. It was a byproduct of surviving. And now it’s optional. So it’s funny, we have to have this conversation versus even just a couple hundred years ago, my grandparents, grandparents, you know, they’re out in the field. They didn’t even have mechanical equipment. They had horses and plows. Oh, my God, I bet you those people were getting 10,000 steps at least per day and sunshine and fresh air. They didn’t have to think about it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I 100% agree, you know, but we got to adapt and we got to create artificial stress through our workouts to keep our muscles and our body strong. So I think that’s great. Is there anything else you want to add today and I think we hit all the really good stuff. Maybe people that are really having a hard time adapting and figuring out the next step they can they can reach out to us here below EvanBrand.com to reach out to for you worldwide. JustinHealth.com for Dr. J myself. And also we may have to dive in deeper and test your adrenals test your hormones, get your gut, maybe give you more nutritional support, hormone support adaptogenic stress support to get you all to the next level. And that’s going to be a thing for most people, depending on how good or bad they you know where they’re at, and how much they want to improve. That could be something that we consider to be an accelerator to get you to the next level. So that’s always an option for y’all as well. Anything else you want to add, Evan?
Evan Brand: No, that’s it. You mentioned the links JustinHealth.com EvanBrand.com we’re happy to help people. We love this stuff. I mean, it’s, it’s such a great thing to be able to take a woman who’s exhausted trying to keep up with the kids, we get her mitochondria working better, we get her gut working better, she’s able to exercise and perform and then boom, it in turn makes her a better parent. She’s able to keep up with the kids now or the grandparents are able to run around with the grandkids. So you know, remember what this is all for. At the end of the day, it’s for you to be able to function through you know, on planet earth through your body in a better way without being injured. So it’s awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it Evan, excellent point today. It was a great podcast. Hope you guys enjoyed. Thumbs up really appreciate it. Comment down below. We really appreciate it. There’ll be a link below if you guys enjoyed it. Shoot us over a review. We’d love to hear your thoughts and feedback. Evan, you have an awesome day, man. You take care.
Evan Brand: Take care now. Thanks bye bye.
The Top 5 Causes of Chronic Headaches
Today we are going to be talking about the top underlying reasons why you may be having a chronic headache. I had a patient come in today who had headaches for 25 years, monthly and chronically, and we were able to get to the root cause and there are many different root causes for every person. Let me lay out the common ones that I find to be a major vector of my patients.
So we have headaches and head pain or migraines where you kind of have that aura and sound sensitivity. There are a couple of different major reasons why headaches may happen.
1. Food Allergens
Most common food allergy is gluten and dairy. There are some studies on gluten affecting blood flow up to the brain. We have these garden hoses on the side of our neck called our carotid arteries. When we have inflammation especially caused by gluten that can decrease blood flow and blood profusion to the frontal cortex, and when you have less blood, you’re going to have decreased performance of the brain. You can see that manifesting in a headache. People don’t know but headaches are actually an issue with vasodilation in the brain. Caffeine can help as caffeine actually causes constriction and brain’s typical headache signal is caused by vasodilation.
2. Food Additives.
These could be things like MSG, aspartame, Splenda or various artificial colors and dyes.
3. Blood Sugar Fluctuation.
We want to have healthy proteins and healthy fats with every meal. If we skip meals or we eat foods that are too high in carbohydrates and refined “crapohydrates” and sugar, and not enough fats and proteins, our blood sugar can go up and then drop. This is called reactive hypoglycemia. We react by putting a whole bunch of sugar in our bloodstream because all of these carbohydrate sources break down into sugar — processed sugar, grains, flours and acellular carbohydrates. These type of flours and refined processed carbs get converted to glucose in our bloodstream. When glucose goes up, our pancreas goes, “Holy smokes! We got a lot of glucose there. We got to pull it into the cell.” It spits out a whole bunch of insulin and pulls that glucose right down, and we have his blood sugar going up with a lot of insulin driving that blood sugar back down. When that blood sugar goes back down, this is where we have cravings. This is where we have addictions, mood issues, energy issues, jitteriness, and cognitive issues. Our body makes adrenaline and cortisol to bring that blood sugar back up. Most people literally live on this high insulin where they are making fat, storing fat and engaging in lipogenesis which makes us tired. Then blood sugar crashes which makes people jittery, anxious, and moody. Most people live on this reactive hypoglycemia rollercoaster and that can drive headaches.
4. Gut Infections.
Patients with a lot of gut inflammation, gut permeability, and infections whether it’s H. pylori, SIBO (small intestinal, bacterial overgrowth) or fungal overgrowth have gut stressors can create inflammation in the gut. When we have inflammation in the gut, we have gut permeability. So our tight junctions in our intestines start to open up and undigested bacteria, lipopolysaccharides, food particles can slip through and create an immune response. You can see histamine along with that immune response and histamine can create headache issues.
5. Hormonal Issue.
A woman’s cycle is about 28 days and in the middle is ovulation. Some women have it during ovulation and most have it right at the end just before they menstruate. This is called premenstrual syndrome that is right before menstruation. A lot of women may also have it during menstruation, too. What happens is progesterone can drop out early and that drop in progesterone can actually cause headache manifestations and also the aberrations in estrogen can also cause headaches as well. We may also see it with excessive bleeding too. So if you’re bleeding a lot or too much, what may happen is you may lose iron and that low iron may cause oxygenation issues. That low level of oxygen may also cause some headache issues as well. Because if you can’t carry oxygen, that is going to be a stressed-out situation for your mitochondria and your metabolism. For menopausal women who have chronically low hormones and they’re not in an optimal place, that can create issues. Progesterone and estrogen can be very anti-inflammatory. So if there is inflammation in the brain, progesterone is a powerful anti-inflammatory and that can really help a lot of inflammation in the brain.
Chronic and Acute Nausea Root Causes | Podcast #295
For this episode, Dr J talks about Chronic and Acute Nausea causes. Dr. J with Evan Brand share their experience with nausea, and how they treat it for themselves as well as to their thousands of patients around the world. Get to know some Anti microbial herbs that you can take, as well as the acupressure points. More information below.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:25 Anti Nausea Medications
3:59 Stress and Infections
10:50 What is Nausea
15:51 Root Causes to Nausea
18:48 Anti Microbial Herbs
23:35 Emotional Freedom Technique
24:14 Acupressure Points
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be talking about the root causes of nausea. Again, because we are clinicians, this isn’t going to be just a symptomatic type of cover up. We want to actually get to the root cause and because we have so much experience with it, we’re going to be sharing with the All Things that have worked with our own personal cells as well as our thousands of patients. So Evan, let’s dive in How you doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Doing really well excited to dive into this topic that conventional medicine doesn’t have much to offer. They may put you on like Dramamine if you’ve got some kind of nausea issue, but it doesn’t go much further than that. Maybe as Oh, Fran, in the conventional medicine world, you know, I’ve had clients that have had gut issues and mood issues and major nausea. If it’s been an extreme situation, they’ll go into the ER and they’ll say, Oh my god, I have the worst nausea of my life and what do they do? They put them on zofran. A drug which is an anti nausea drug and it works. It is effective. But then they send him home and they said, Oh, you must have just had an anxiety attack and you know, for your gut symptoms, you need to go see a gastroenterologist because I don’t know what’s going on there. So then they go to the GI doc the GI doc doesn’t say much about nausea besides possibly giving a prescription or maybe an acid blocker or something else. So it’s not really it’s not pretty and so many people out there suffering, but I’ll just tell you my story and then we’ll get into some of the clinical pearls too, which is that when I had h pylori and parasite issues, man, my nausea was terrible. I was telling you before I press four, we press record here live, man, I tell you not only did I lose weight, but I had no appetite or my appetite would swing or some days I’m really hungry and other days I couldn’t eat anything and it’s just because I had this baseline nausea going on. And h pylori, I can do it to you. So I don’t know if that’s the this is in no particular order. So I don’t know if that’s the top number one cause but I would say it’s definitely in the top three clinic H pylori infection, which is a bacteria that damages your parietal cells, and it reduces your stomach acid levels, just that reduction of stomach acid alone can cause that nausea, but also, your gut lining can get irritated it can get inflamed from the bacteria, and that can further the nausea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. 100%. And a lot of these anti nausea medications, they kind of work on the histamine receptor, right? They’re like an h1 blocker h2 blocker or an h3 blocker. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: That’s right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so a lot of those medications are going to have a anti kind of serotonin type of effect. So what does that mean? Right? Anytime we have issues with histamine, almost always there’s going to be some level of inflammation brewing, right? Anytime histamine becomes a problem, think of your inflammation bucket is being overwhelmed or overflowing. So now we have to really get to the root cause of why that is so you know, palliated wise, you could do an anti histamine if it’s an every now and then thing, but if it’s a chronic thing well now the question is why and that’s where we’re just trying to take the conversation and go deeper to the root cause versus just talk about the palliative symptom cover up. Plus, not to mention a lot of anti histamine medications, they have a lot of fatigue and cognitive issues as a side effect. So that’s not really a good long term solution for a lot of people anyway.
Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s just not sustainable either. Now, unlike my grandfather, I know he would when he would go on a plane he would take like a Dramamine which would, which would help the plane nausea, but what was causing the bucket to be so full so you’ve alluded to histamine? I think it’s a huge piece of the puzzle. Why does histamine become an issue though? I would say SIBO, intestinal bacterial overgrowth with histamine producing bacteria what other things would you say are putting in the histamine bucket? Are you talking like, you know, high histamine foods that are putting in the bucket along with the microbes? Are you thinking those are the two big factors that are filling up the bucket or what else.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So definitely Just stress from all different areas. So being a functional medicine doctor, you have to be really good at being a stress detective. So what does that mean? That means we’re looking at physical, chemical and emotional stressors. And we’re looking at those stressors and how they accumulate. So if I deal with someone and we hate what’s going on in your life, right now, when did everything start, I’m like, oh, there’s a divorce going on. Oh, there’s a significant move or an upheaval in the family. Okay, that’s something we’re going to make a note on right. Now, a lot of times, you can’t fix some of that you can just make sure they have support or you know, recommend a good counselor or someone else to make sure that that issue is being supported and being processed in a healthy fashion. But we have to make sure now health is even higher, when there’s lots of stress. So when someone’s stressed, we have to make sure diet is really good, amazingly anti inflammatory, nutrient dense kind of low toxin paleo template, really important. We have to make sure because of that nausea, do we have poor enzyme and acid secretion, so a lot of times that’s part of the stress responses, you have low enzyme and acid secretion. And so then when you eat food Do you feel more nauseous, you feel worse because of all that stress and inflammation, inhibition of enzymes and acids. So then we have to really make sure we can actually digest and break down our foods. People think that’s a given, oh, I’m eating a healthy paleo template. I’m going to have good digestion because my food’s Great. Well, maybe not. So we have to make sure the common sense things are in place. Are we chewing our food? Well, are we hydrating with food? Right, hydration with food may not be the best unless it’s a couple ounces of water to get down pills. And then the third thing is, are we taking enough acids and enzymes and maybe even bile salts because we know not enough bile? and not being able to break down fat can also be a nausea issue. Right? gallbladder issues are a big one. We see that with pregnant women, right? high levels of HCG and poor fat digestion can easily create a nausea environment there too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said and the infections too. So if you’re trying to get to the root cause of the root cause it’s like okay, low acid. Low enzymes why well, the H. pylori could be one factor, parasites, various bacterial overgrowth, so you always have to address those infections, and maybe your infection free, which would be pretty rare and awesome, but age alone can also do this. So after age 20, we’ve talked about him many times, but Dr. Wright’s book why stomach acid is good for you. Age 30, age 40, age 50, age 60. enzymes and acids are going to go down every year, but of course, majorly every decade. And so by the time you’re 60 70, if you’re not taking supplemental acids and enzymes, we’re going to quantify this too, right? When you say we need to make sure you have adequate digestion. You’re not just saying, Hey, here’s some enzymes, we’re going to be looking at an organic acids, we’re going to be looking at a stool panel, we’re going to look at gut inflammation, we’re going to look at stouter crit, which is a fecal fat marker. We’re going to look at pancreatic elastase. We’re going to look at the neurotransmitters. We’re going to look at the amino acid metabolites, how are people digesting so there’s a ton of data by Behind this, we don’t just say you have bad digestion, here’s a supplement. It’s no, you have bad digestion. Let me show you on paper. Here’s the infections, reducing the enzymes. That’s the first domino. And then here’s the inflammation from the mal absorb food that’s further affecting your gut barrier. And then three, here’s your amino acids. They’re crap because you’re not digesting your proteins. Now, here’s the protocol. So it’s not just bad digestion, nausea enzyme there, there’s more to it behind, you know, behind the scenes
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110% 100% agree so we have to get to the underlying issue. Now there’s some natural things that can help right. Lemon juice is a really nice one right? Why does lemon juice help? Well, lemon juice has acid in there so I think lemon juice Prime’s the digestive tract to make more acid and help better break down the food. Number two ginger now I have ginger part of my ginger tea kind of recipe protocol my patients know this is something that I recommend across the board. board. So when we had killed doing a lot of killing or we have a lot of stomach upset ginger number one can calm down the guts of the guts inflamed, it can calm that down, which can help better digestion helped move along motility and calm down the inflammation. Ginger also has a natural anti nausea side benefit, safe to take if you’re a pregnant woman too, by the way, but it really helps with nausea from a natural perspective. So we love that because it’s going to really help calm down the inflammation, which is part of the root cause but also help with the nausea so we don’t have to be on a Dramamine or zofran or some kind of an h1, h2, or even h3, anti nausea medication, which may only have side effects. So those are a couple of natural things we can dive in and go deeper as well. Peppermint is also a great one. Canna meal is a great one guess what peppermint kameel ginger, guess what their natural digestive bitters. So part of how they work is they’re going to help your digestive system work better in regards to secreted enzymes. an acid which is very powerful, and a lot of those oils have anti inflammatory benefits. So reducing inflammation and increasing digestive secretions is part of, you know, a good palliative solution. We can talk deeper because you kind of alluded to SIBO and maybe you’re in the past when you have H. pylori that cause nausea. So if we’re just doing HCL enzymes and ginger and not getting to the root cause it’s still a palliative fix, but better than a medication because it doesn’t have all the side effects
Evan Brand: True and I think it was probably the Giardia, too, right. We know the Giardia can be an issue with the gallbladder. If you just look up grd a gallbladder there’s a huge connection there and that was probably part of my fat digestion issues as well. So even after I cleared out the H pylori, you know, there were some parasites that I was still dealing with. So that could have been part of my nausea as well. You and I were talking about a guy earlier. client of mine in his early 20s, who has had constant nausea. He described it as 24 seven nausea for several years. Conventional doctors can up on him, he sought out my help. I told him and this is what we do as practitioners sometimes we’ll say, hey, look, I don’t know the exact number one end all be all puzzle piece to this issue. But I’m going to run you through looking into these body systems. We found some infections, we found a lot of mold. And I’m like, hey, look, fingers crossed. This is gonna work. We made a really good protocol. And now six months later, he’s 99% better, and there’s no more nausea so much that when we do a follow up call now I’m like, hey, do you have any complaints or concerns? Nope. And I’m like, Oh, well, did you forget when you first came to me you had nausea 20 470 Yeah, I remember it’s gone. I’m like yay. Because sometimes going in you and I were talking about the importance of foundation so so let’s hit that real quick because people don’t get to enjoy our pre recording chat. But what-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanted to just was just the time and I wanted to just define nausea. Someone in the in the live video kind of say, What’s nausea? Well, nausea is that queasy kind of upset feeling in your stomach. It’s kind of you You may get a little bit dizzy. It’s that in between of puking and vomiting. But you’re kind of just feel like your tummies upset. You feel queasy, you feel a little bit dizzy. You feel about ready to to puke, but not quite there.
Evan Brand: I’m sure everyone’s experienced nausea at one point. Yeah,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think everyone has for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah, but so so with this guy, which can happen with nausea. And it did happen with nausea. I didn’t know on paper. You know, looking at the labs, we saw some issues, but I didn’t have a number one smoking gun that I was convinced was the root cause of his nausea. But we went through the foundation’s getting the diet in order addressing the infections using binders to pull out mold and other toxins. And hey, look, he got better. It’s amazing. So there are certain cases where we may have symptoms that sound weird, or maybe we don’t have the end all be all smoking gun right in front of us. But we’re gonna run, run you through the system address these body systems. And there’s so many things that just happened. Have you seen that where you kind of say that the symptom improvement is a side effect of getting healthy? It’s like hey, Yeah, we made you healthy and your issue went away.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The problem with conventional medicine is they give you a drug that may help with that side effect or help with that issue, but then the side effect may be worse, where we’re going after something, something totally different. Right and H pylori infection or not enough stomach acid from SIBO. And then the side of benefit is the nausea goes away. So this is what happens when you go upstream and you deal with system issues. Symptoms downstream manifests when you treat symptoms by themselves downstream with medications, then you have more symptoms that happen from the medication called side effects. And so that’s the difference between when you get to recall stuff versus symptom care.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. And the peppermint man, I’m glad you brought up peppermint. I drink my bodyweight in peppermint. When I add H. pylori. My gut was just raw. I was doing some dgl I was doing glutamine. I was doing other gut healing nutrients which we can talk about now. I think that could be part of the palliative care with nausea. The you mentioned kameel already but the glutamine, the aloe, so Like the gut soothing nutrients, we did a whole podcast on that. Go check it out, early July, top seven nutrients to heal your gut. A lot of that stuff could could actually help with nausea too. So there may be some overlap, but it’s always working backwards. So number one thing, get your stool looked at number two thing, get your urine looked at number three, I’d say get your environment looked at this guy. This young guy, he had tons of mold in his bedroom. So we actually had him start burning some of the candles that we have some mold candles and then doing the Mr. In his bedroom, and we retested his plates in his petri dish that previously looked very moldy indicating had a lot of colonies growing in his room. We retest the petri dish and it looked much better. So for him, I do believe there was an environmental component as well. So when you’re working with the practitioner, hopefully they’re addressing all these root cause body issues, but in some cases, it could be an environmental issue. I had a lady who lived with her mother, and her mother was always burning candles and somehow the candle was making her nausea so she swapped out the candle for an essential oil one got rid of the synthetic fragrance and the nausea went away. So some people are going to have nausea from smells whether it’s car exhaust or cigarette smoke or perfume or deodorant, you know, the chemically sensitive people out there. Nausea can come from those chemical sensitivities. So if you’re not already addressing your body care, your skincare, any hair products, soaps, shampoos, laundry detergent, dryer sheets, you know going free and clear go unscented or essential oil based with all those products that could also improve nausea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, 110% 110% I think we’re on the right on the right track always trying to get to the root cause someone wrote in would you suggest giving lemon or ginger if someone’s on a histamine diet, I think it’s worth it. If anything that can help stimulate digestive support is great. Typically I’m going to come in there with enzymes and acids off the gecko because that really helps. Of course right there. If you want something more at home, you can do the ginger an apple cider vinegar or lemon juice, that’s fine. If not, we’re going to use Use our own digestive support. I think that’s a really, really good first start. Because if you improve digestion, that makes a big difference. Now, testing, we’re going to do some deeper stool testing to get to the root cause of what’s happening and see if there’s an H. pylori infection. If there’s a cebo infection, we’re going to run some organic acids, we’re going to look at gut bacteria and yeast in the urine. So we’re always trying to get to the root cause. But then we have these palliative things that are up our sleeve with the ginger and the B six and peppermint and our gentle kind of common meal and Swedish bitters.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I love the gut healing herbs. You can use them if you don’t know what’s going on. But hopefully just by clearing infections, nausea is going to get much much better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. That’s really good, man. we’re on the right track here. Anything else you wanted to highlight here for me root cause perspective in regards to nausea?
Evan Brand: Well, I’ve had many, many clients get their gallbladder removed, and now they’re just in really bad shape. They’ve got constant nausea, and these People that and this is not to make me sound good. This is just a reality. But if they would have come to me before they got the gallbladder out, hopefully we could have saved their gallbladder by removing infections, increasing bile salts, things like that to save the gallbladder before it became to a crisis level where they had an emergency gallbladder removal, but it’s a huge, huge problem, the gall bladders removed because, you know, you’re still going to be producing bile. You’re just not going to be able to store it and concentrate it and so, you know, people that are going on paleo or keto or high fat diets, they’re like, Well, why am I so freakin nauseous now? I thought paleo was the answer. Their autoimmune paleo Why am I so nauseous? Well, if you don’t have a gallbladder, you’re your disadvantage. So you’re going to need a little more help than the average person with the digestive piece.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I 100% agree. I got sick last year, up in Boston in the north end that was at an Italian restaurant, I ordered a steak and I really felt nauseous and I think I got food poisoning or a gut infection. And it was a Friday night and I was just nauseous until I got back home. Monday morning and when I got back the first thing I did was I hit my gi Claire for and within 30 minutes the nausea was gone.
Evan Brand: What’s in there?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: GI Claire 4 had a lot of berberine a lot of goldenseal and a lot of burdock birdbox. Excellent for the limp. But as soon as it hit my tummy, I felt 1000 times better. And so there was probably some kind of a food poisoning or some kind of a microbe in the gut. That was really triggering a lot of that nausea like receptor site activation, whether it was a histamine or an inflammation issue. It was really driving that but my giac therefore made a huge difference. I was doing a lot of ginger and apple cider vinegar drinks. So that’s what I had access to at Whole Foods. That helped a little bit but you could feel it. It was just palliative. It wasn’t getting to the root cause as soon as I did my giac there for us, like gone. Yeah, whoa, it was like someone just flipped the switch and turns it off. I couldn’t believe it.
Evan Brand: That makes sense. Well, I guess one thing we didn’t define yet is the difference between acute nausea which I I would consider your situation they’re more acute versus cute with with the guy I was talking about. That was a more chronic knowledge issue. This guy been nauseous for years you were nauseous for day. So in that aspect there would be a little bit of difference for you. You didn’t need any testing. You didn’t do a stool test and wait for the results. You know, you count you got home you took some herbs you felt better, so that’s good. So I guess you know, so far we’ve been talking more more chronic. But regarding the acute. Another thing I would throw into the mix would be some type of binder, whether it’s like a fulvic acid, charcoal, zeolite clay, bentonite clay, those type of things could be a game changer. And I always have, I always have a bag that in the diaper bag. So my wife and I are out somewhere. Let’s say I got food poisoning. Maybe it helps but it’s definitely not going to hurt to papa capsule or to a charcoal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can and don’t get me wrong in this situation. I had charcoal, I had oil of oregano. I had probiotics. None of that touched it when I hit my giac there for it. Within 30 minutes. I couldn’t believe it. It was like I was in this fall. And then it was just totally lifted.
Evan Brand: It makes sense. Well, so the charcoal wouldn’t work if it was like a bacteria histamine issue, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, if it was a food poisoning kind of bacteria issue probably was it probably wasn’t enough because it’s like, you know, you send in 10 police to to arrest 100 people, you know, think of the, the charcoal was the policeman, right? Well, it’s not enough but if you kind of drop a bomb, so to speak with the herbs in the tummy, all these unruly bacteria, you’re just going to knock everything down. I think we just needed bigger guns, right? The gut microbes, there’s just a lot of unfriendly microbes out of balance there and once I dropped the giac therefore, it moved the needle now I didn’t want to know ahead of time. So I’ve just learned wherever I go, I bring that gi Claire 4 because the burdock root with the golden seal and the high dose berberine ‘s and the grapefruit and the black is just a good synergy of herbs there that have really helped me a couple of different times in Mexico with parasites. And with this nausea episode. It’s an absolute game changer.
Evan Brand: I’ve Yeah, I’m I’d love to hear that, you know, I’ve used a lot less oregano in the past couple years clinically, because of the synergistic herb formulas that you and I have. I just find they work so much better than just a regular like if I used to see like a Candida or maybe a parasite, I may throw some oregano and on top of it, but I don’t know about you, but I’m using a lot less oregano in isolation and much, much more happy with our complexes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, I tend to do a combination of the two, especially if there’s Candida, but yeah, I totally agree. Some of the the combo stuff is really really nice and helps with the root issues. So recap what are some of the big things we have to look for? We have to kind of draw a line between an acute episode of nausea and a chronic episode. If there’s an acute episode, we always want to thank food poisoning or infection. Okay. If there’s a chronic episode when we want to thank potential infection, right, but we also want to thank stressed out Nervous System sympathetic overload, not enough enzymes, not enough acid, not enough bile. Put, right not enough file, we’re gonna have a hard time breaking down fat, liver and gallbladder and poor fat digestion issues are known to cause nausea. So adding in good, whether it’s just bile support or whether it’s phosphatidylcholine, or some taurine, or some dandelion root or some fringe tree extract are all very good for the gallbladder also just the enzyme, the lipase and the and the bile salts can be helpful. Good proteolytic enzymes, good hydrochloric acid, all of those can be incredibly helpful at supporting good digestion, and then which is a side benefit. The nausea goes away. See, with a lot of combat a lot of natural stuff, we don’t really have side effects, we have side benefits, you know, if you’re really sensitive, and you’re inflamed, there’s always can be a little bit of issue because your tummy may or your body may just be so inflamed, but if you’re relatively healthy and stable, most of the time you get side benefits with natural compounds, not side effects,
Evan Brand: Right. So if you’re using the antimicrobial herbs, you’re knocking down the pathogens, which is the main mechanism but then number two, the nausea when way. So that’s awesome. I love how that works. And regarding the testing, like I said, in your case, it was cute. You didn’t need testing, but in chronic cases, yeah, we’re going to be looking at store we’re going to be looking at your impossibly environmental, like I told you for this young guy, you know, he did have mold in his bedroom. The levels were quite high mold can cause nausea. It can cause dizziness. So some people have that combo, where it’s a little bit of nausea, vertigo, dizziness, combo, it could be related to that. And then I would say, stress and trauma too. I mean, I had a woman who had a really, really bad interaction with her boss. And every day on the drive to work, she would get nauseous and I thought, okay, what’s in her car? She had a mercedes, mercedes benz did a recall on 2.5 million cars for mold growing in the HVC system. So I thought, is this lady getting exposed to mold? Nope, we did petri dishes on her car. It wasn’t moly, she was fine. But why was she nauseous everyday on the way to work? And I thought, well, I don’t know. She thought she was EMF sensitive. So We had her disable all the Bluetooth functions and all that on the car. Nope, that didn’t help. And then we talked about this boss, how she had this really, really bad interaction with the boss. And I’m like, Okay, well, does the boss still work in that same office? Yes. And then the boss goes on vacation. Guess what her nausea magically goes away the week that she is driving to work where she knows the boss isn’t there. She has no nausea, like oh my god. So there it is. It’s some type of emotional trauma. And you have this like cortisol response, which cortisol could cause nausea from the stress. And so we just had her start doing tapping, we had her do Emotional Freedom Technique, tap, tap, tap it out, and the trauma went away. And now she could drive to work without getting nauseous. So sometimes you have to probe and sometimes you think it’s going to be something simple, and it ends up being related to that. So don’t forget about the emotional component. If you’ve got bad boss, bad spouse, let’s say you’re getting nauseous on the drive home and you’re going to go in and you know, you and your husband still have some stuff to resolve. It could be a normal reaction to be nauseous about that. Please don’t forget about the emotional work and Emotional Freedom Technique is free. It’s effective. Justin and I love it. We personally use it, we clinically use it tapping could be another strategy and sort of a bandaid. That could be palliative and root cause and with nausea, so I think it’s a great, great tool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, also, if you look at this acupressure points, too, so here’s your hand. It’s called P6. So it’s right about here. So it’s about an inch or two down from the wrist. And if you massage this P6 can also be helpful.
Evan Brand: Yeah, they have bands in that, have you seen those? I tried them. I bought those nausea bands to try to go out on the boat. I mean, it was kind of limited success for me, but some people it works.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And again, this is kind of more a palliative. But nice thing is I mean, what kind of side effects do you have with this and it’s free, right? So you can rob here this area?
Evan Brand: Yeah. So people listening, people listening on audio, he’s showing you right on the right on the inside, it’s in. It’s in between the two tendons right there right on the wrist, kind of maybe maybe three inches. Have your wrist headed up towards your elbow but on the inside of your arm and then the other point he’s showing is right on the back of the hand sort of in that little crevice where the thumb and the pointer finger are going to meet right then in between there, you could you’re saying just hold it there. And that could help.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you can just massage this area right here in the web between your thumb and your index finger, that little web that little fleshy area and again, this is on video here for y’all. So if you guys can see you can rub this area here. This is a great area like my wife was in in labor giving it and it does help massage this area here. This is not like some placebo stuff. This really does help. This helps and then right about two inches or so you feel like the the the app neurosis here, this kind of connective tissue right below it right in that area right in the middle below the middle finger all the way down just below where the tibia and the oma sorry, the the radius and the owner connect to that little gap there. Yeah, and if you guys are listening, Watch the YouTube video we’ll put down below. I know it’s hard to describe this stuff here. But we’ll try To put in the notes maybe an image of that so you guys can see it, but that’s very helpful. So if you’re feeling nauseous give that a rub. This is P6. This is another point right here. You can do that one. And then if there’s a certain stressful event that’s causing a problem right the boss or a stressful situation with a friend or family member, you can do all your EFT tapping points. I like to double tap. Yeah, like collarbone. Chin, you only got one chin, only one tap there under the nose, under the eyes, tip of the eyebrows, medial eyebrows.
Evan Brand: And you always talk about how we’re thinking about it too. Like you would be thinking you know, I’m stressed about this person or you doing the remedy you’re thinking I’m calm, which which are you mainly doing?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I always start with the problem because it’s really hard. If you’re thinking about a problem to be like stop thinking about the problem. You kind of need to calm the problem first and then you can start thinking about what you want to manifest so I’m just like, hey, that boss issue like, Man, this person’s really driving me nuts man. I’m feeling really anxious about this boss issue. Wow. Like really stressed to go to work today. And I’m thinking about that. And then once that kind of once I do a couple of rounds and that levels down, but I switch that it’s like, Alright, we’re going to have a great day at work, we’re going to have awesome communication, we’re all going to be on the same page, we’re going to have a really great meeting today. I’m going to communicate my needs clearly on a set my boundaries clearly. So you know, then you can kind of talk about what you want to manifest afterwards. So I try to get the sensation level down below five or so you know, a scale of one to 1010 being the worst, maybe you’re an eight, get it below five. And then you can start doing it while you focus on what you want to manifest. That’s very helpful. I think it’s really good when you can do it the points to you can also you can also tap these points if you want P5 or P6. You can tap these points too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I love it. Also the peppermint oil and some of those things. Essential Oils topically can be very beneficial to whether you’re just sniffing them whether you’re putting like an anti nausea blend into diffuser. I know when I had gut infections, I was doing a lot of peppermint essential oil mixed with coconut oil to dilute it and I would rub that topically on the belly. It was a game changer. game changer. There’s been studies on that with IBS and it’s awesome. So orally you know, taking things and capsules doing peppermint teas, also topical oils, the EFT addressing the emotional stress, getting tested for the infections clearing those out. So a lot of a lot of good tips in this thing. So if you need to replay this podcast twice, do it and share it with people because there’s a lot of people suffering and they don’t get the answers they need. I really hate when I look at a a list of supplements or medications that our clients are on when they first come to us and they’re looking they’re doing 234 things just to try to help get them out of bed. You know, it’s like an anti anxiety. It’s an anti depressant. It’s an anti nausea, it’s an IBS drug. It’s like oh my gosh, we got to help this person.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% 100% Now a couple patients right in here about cleansing the liver well if you have a lot of gall stones, and your your gallbladder is not functioning properly and you’re not breaking down fat that could definitely be part of it. I typically don’t try to go flush out stones because if you flush out a stone think of a stone could be like a porcupine. It’s like giving a porcupine a hug when that gallbladder contract so I just try to gently emulsify the stone and my line we use the liver supreme because it has some herbs in there that helped kind of emulsify it and gently kind of smooth it out. And also it has bile salts in there and phosphatidylcholine and taurine. So I try to use things that smooth out the stone versus flesh it out because you can potentially cause a gallbladder attack and then extra bile to help break down the fat to then we’re not having the poor digestion of fat causing nausea either.
Evan Brand: Yes, yes. good points. Yeah. HCL enzymes, ox bile, the taurine and I do a lot of artichoke, beet powder. There’s a lot of good things you can do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then just to be clear, this point is Li four, Li four. Okay, and then this one here on the wrist is you take the wrist and you put three fingers across the wrist. Right, and then it’s the pinky finger that that third finger down below I’m sorry, the index finger, third finger down below to measure you’re saying that’s how you measures. So that’s how you measure it to find it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So people listening, you’ll put three fingers at the bottom of the hand, right? We’re connected to the wrist on the inside there. 123 fingers, long ways down, boom, there is
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: a horizontal and that can help with pain and nausea. Yep, that’s the LDL six and the P six or stay the L. They call it Li four. I’m pretty sure l four is an abbreviation than PC six or P six. Those are the big ones. If you guys want to Google that you can find some images and videos on how to do that.
Evan Brand: Good. There could be some Lessing I’ll mention here there could be some issue with the IRS. I’ve had some clients that have had issues with their sinuses and or their ears causing nausea. And so I’m not saying you need to do this, but I’m telling you what I’ve done before is I’ve done like some grapefruit seed extract in the nose or grapefruit seed extract in the ears to try to clear out inner ear type issues that could cause nausea and it has been beneficial. Some people have reported silver being good up the nose and silver in the ears. If there’s some type of a viral issue, there are some viruses that can affect the inner ear and that can cause some nausea as well. So I am not an EMT, so consult with your EMT and ask them about that. But ears, nose, throat, those kind of issues could possibly be related to this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, usually with ear stuff, you’re gonna have a lot more vertigo, dizziness and nausea. So if your usually your vertigo is the primary issue, followed by the nausea as a secondary issue, we’re talking, we’re talking more nausea as the primary issue. If that is a problem, you got to get to the root cause. So even with vertigo, a lot of times autoimmune stuff can be at play, thyroid stuff can be a play. If it’s in a odorless crystal issue, where there’s different techniques that you can do a lot of chiropractors will put you on your back, imagine I’m lying on my back, they’ll tilt your head back and they’ll have you turn one way to kind of move the crystal through a lot of times they’ll do massage or a precursor on the back of the occiput area to kind of jiggle out those crystals and They’ll tilt this way as well. So they’ll go back until one way hole for 30 seconds back till the other way hold for 30 seconds that can be helpful if it’s a true otolithic crystal issue. But it may not be for everyone. So there’s a lot of different root causes. That’s why coming up with one medication to treat it is silly because there’s so many different root causes. That’s why the more you know, the better.
Evan Brand: That’s true. That’s true. Well, I think that’s all I wanted to cover. If you have anything else, let us know. But otherwise, let’s wrap this thing up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so a couple patients right in the chat here will can slippery elm or can fennel help with the tummy? Well, it just depends, right? So if there’s inflammation in the tummy causing the nausea, anything anti inflammatory for the tummy, like glutamine, or ginger, or slippery elm or dgl, or aloe could potentially help with the nausea. Like let’s say you had a food poisoning issue. Would that be enough to help with the nausea maybe not because you’d probably need more antimicrobials in there as well. So you always have To connect it to the root cause. So, if it really helps some of those anti inflammatories, healing, soothing supports aloe bone broth, collagen, it’s probably more of an inflammatory issue, probably less of an acute infection issue. So you’ve got to figure out the root cause. And that’s why seeing a good functional medicine doc like myself, or you evidence gonna be great. And if you guys want to go see Evan, EvanBrand.com, and JustinHealth.com, we are available worldwide to help you if you want to dive in deeper and get to the root cause of what’s happening.
Evan Brand: Yep, well, thank you for the plug. I’ll mention it too, in case people like my voice better than yours, if you want to reach out to Justin, JustinHealth.com. He’s available worldwide. And me EvanBrand.com, available worldwide. We love helping people. We’re truly blessed. We’re truly grateful for the opportunity. You know, we’ve suffered and been our own our own journeys, and we’ve recovered from significant things that many doctors just threw their hands up at, or maybe they threw the prescription pad up at us and we denied those things. And so we’re really honored to be able to have this knowledge personally and clinically. And, you know, we learned so much from you guys. So please reach out if you need help. And we’d love to get to the bottom of this with you
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% We are here to serve. And if you guys enjoy this content, please let us know. Let us know what you’d like. Let us know what you’ve experienced in regards to helping improve your nausea. Again, everything that we’re talking about is not just something theoretical, you see in PubMed, or you read on some blog posts. These are theoretical things that we’ve done with hundreds of patients out of out of the thousands that we’ve seen. So it’s all actionable, hope you guys apply it and at least take away one thing that you can work on here. And you guys have a phenomenal day and continue to maintain optimal health. Take care y’all.
Evan Brand: Take care, bye bye.
Oils That Cause Gut Inflammation
There are various top-causes for gut inflammation but a big one is an oil. The oil you use to cook or bake into foods could be a major culprit to your very uncomfortable gut inflammation. Let’s look at the good and stable oils vs. the unhealthy oils.
If you look at the standard American diet, just even a hundred years ago, your grandparents or your great grandparents, they did not have access to these type of oils. They were cooking with traditional fats. They did a lot of lard and maybe some beef tallow.
If I asked my grandfather, “What did your grandmother cook you and what did she cook it with?” She was not using soybean oil. She was not using corn oils. She was not using rapeseed oil, which is canola. She was not using peanut oil. If they did something fried, it was going to be fried in possibly bacon fat, which came from the pig in the backyard of the farm or it was going to be cooked in some type of like a beef tallow, where the cows were on the back part of the farm.
When it comes down to fats, most plant fats are not going to be the best unless they are cold extracted or unless they are minimally processed to extract the fats. Partly because of the processes of extracting, it tends to damage the fats because the heat and the extraction process also makes the fats rancid and taste bad. There’s a lot of like deodorizing and filtration and different processes to make it more palatable that you would never be able to have at a natural state.
So the best plant fats are:
- Coconut oil because it’s a saturated fat and it’s more temperature-stable.
- Cold-press olive oil and good-quality avocado oil, which is primarily a monosaturated fat.
- Palm oil, which is more in a kind of saturated state.
There are some nut-based and some seed-based oils, but then you start ramping up the Omega-6 and those may not be the best. There are some supplemental oils that are more GLA-based that I’ll give supplementally, like black currant seed oil but we’ll give it supplementally and that’s coming from great sources that are going to be in capsules that won’t be oxidized and such.
Bad fats are going to create a lot of oxidative stress and they are going to deplete a lot of your antioxidant reserves because if those fats are oxidized, your body is going to need a lot of vitamin C and vitamin E to help with the oxidative stress that those fats may cause your body.
Now what it you find a good fish with gluten-free breading so it’s not covered in wheat with some type of non-gluten containing flour, but then you’ve got canola oil. Do you think you’re still going to be net positive in terms of nutrition because you’ve still got the good fish, but yet you’ve got the inflammatory oils or would you say, just get you some grilled fish and then if you want to bread it, you bread it yourself?
There’s a product that we like of sweet potato fries that my wife will do for my son because it’s really easy, but they have a little bit of canola oil in there. So you have this kind of convenience factor where ideally if you could you always would want to put your own fat on there if you could and my easy saturated fat or my easy fat for cooking that’s plant-based would be avocado. I like avocado because it tastes a little bit more neutral. I do not like olive oil as much. Olive oil is better for dressings, but I’ll do avocado for cooking. If you have control over it, you always choose the better fat over the junky fat if you can.
So the interesting thing is like coconut oil and avocado they’ve become kind of trendy and I would say avocado is not going to be a traditional fat meaning, meaning like traditional people were probably not doing it because you’ve got to have some heavy-duty equipment to extract the oil, but coconut oil would be super traditional. I mean, this would be something that has historical use.
Your big fats that are going to be plant-based would probably be primarily coconut. But your biggest ones that I think are going to be used more long-term from generation to generation will be your tallows, your bacon fat, your duck fat, and those kinds of things because saturated fats don’t go bad. They stay good for a long time because the carbon is saturated with 4 hydrogen bonds between them, which makes the fat really, really, really temperature-stable.
Take note of oils are that bad for your gut because they cause inflammation and oxidative stress.
4 Herbs That Give You The Upper Hand Against Viral Infections
Let’s talk about four herbs with antiviral properties.
As part of a Candida protocol, we’ll have a couple of herb combinations that will have olive leaf combined with monolaurin. Stack those two right on top of each other. Monolaurin is a lauric acid coconut extract. It has been shown to be very, very potent as an antiviral. With olive leaf, the main compound in it – oleuropein – and that actually prevents the virus from attaching to the cells. We kind of talk about mechanisms a lot and people ask why does that matter. It is because some herbs may prevent the replication of viruses. Things like olive actually prevent the virus from attaching to healthy cells. So if you have multiple herbs, you’ve got multiple mechanisms. You’re just making yourself even more resilient.
They help with either immune modulation, natural killer cell, antibody modulation which is the infantry that comes in afterwards, or it is going to help with viral replication. Typically, it’s going to modulate the inflammation from the immune response.
Usually it is hitting things in about three to four different ways, and most are going to fall into that category. That is kind of the mechanism how they are working.
We use Cat’s Claw or Samento a lot with biofilms. They work really well. These are protective shields, bacteria and critters use. We also use it with a lot of Lyme and various co-infections, but Cat’s Claws is great at the immune system, helping with viruses, and really enhancing the body’s ability to deal with infections. Again, everything we are talking about is not necessarily to treat anything. A lot of the time it is just to support our own immune response to what’s happening, because our body is really the ultimate fighter in all of this. Everything we are doing is just trying to give our body’s immune system an edge to address the issue to begin with. The body has dealt and humankind has dealt with viruses since forever.
When we are doing a lot of these herbs, a lot of times we want to make sure the whole root is present. A lot of times with Echinacea, you will see a lot of flower present. I want the whole root. I find that it has a lot more of the immune-modulating alkaloids that really have the immune benefit. It is excellent in how it reduces virus levels. It inhibits the growth of bacteria. It inhibits the growth of viruses. It is also going to modulate with the inflammation caused by that immune response and caused by the cytokines and interleukins.
What can you do to try to gain the upper hand?
These things are just going to improve your resilience. It’s important to have the right mindset. A lot of people are selling like cures or solutions and that is not going to be the case, but it is really going to be our body to begin with. Even antibiotics, when an infection gets cleared, it is still not the antibiotic. It is the antibiotic lowering the level of the infection and then the immune system can kind of come in and play. It is like if we are using a lifting analogy, it really gives a very helpful spot when you’re kind of low in that bench press, it really gives you that little spot to kind of get it up through that sticky point.
Symptoms and Dangers of Low Potassium
Do you know how much potassium you’re getting? I was looking at some recent research including a national survey which indicated that approximately 98% of Americans are not meeting the recommended potassium intake.
We all know the Standard American Diet is not good–but it’s not just the American diet that favors processed foods over whole plant foods, such as fruits, vegetables, beans, and nuts. This is the standard European diet. This is the standard Australian diet. Most developed first-world countries are primarily consuming processed, potassium-devoid food.
Let’s tie that directly into the research I mentioned at the beginning. A study done by a Chinese hospital and Chinese medical university in Wenzhou, Zhejiang Province, China on hypokalemia and clinical implications in patients with coronavirus. The researchers found that people that had severe hypokalemia–the technical term for potassium deficiency–and took potassium supplements were inclined to recovery. While the study results don’t directy say a potassium deficiency means you’ll get sick, it does indicate that because of the ACE-2 enzyme and the whole relationship to the virus, that one contributing factor may be low potassium levels. And if you already have low potassium to begin with, then you may have a higher risk of fatality.
Why Does Potassium Matter?
Potassium is a key part of the sodium-potassium pump. A cell has sodium inside the cell and potassium outside of the cell, and the sodium-potassium pump uses active transport to move molecules from a high concentration to a low concentration by moving sodium ions out of and potassium ions into the cell
The enzyme that’s involved in making this happen is an ATP enzyme. You can identify enzymes because of the suffix “-ase” at the end: ATPase. ATP is important because it is the energy generated by your mitochondria.
Side effects of a potassium deficiency include:
- Muscle or nerve problems
- Mood issues
- Adrenal dysfunction
- Energy issues
- Digestive issues
- Heart palpitations
- Achy muscles, muscle breakdown
- Feeling tired and stiff
- Tingling and numbness issues
One of the big side effects of a potassium deficiency is muscle or nerve issues, because potassium and sodium are very important for the muscles and nerves to work
There is also a potential for mood issues because sodium and potassium play an intricate role with the adrenal glands. Part of the reason why people’s potassium gets low–outside of a poor diet–is going to be because of adrenal function. Typically with the adrenals, aldosterone starts to go low. Aldosterone is a mineralocorticoid that exists in the cortex of the adrenals. As aldosterone starts going low, sodium can start to drop too. As your sodium drops, sometimes your potassium can look like it’s not too bad. It can look actually a little bit high, but you could still actually have potassium issues because of the fact that your adrenals are weak and you’re peeing out a lot of your minerals.
If you have sodium-potassium pump issues, you probably have energy issues too. Healthy mitochondrial function is needed to make ATP for the sodium-potassium pump to work.
Cramping is another potential side effect of being potassium-deficient, because the muscles need the fluid wiring, sodium and potassium, and minerals.
Your bowel movements and your motility starts becoming slower when your potassium drops. We need healthy levels of potassium so we have good bowel movements; otherwise there can be digestive and elimination problems.
Heart palpitations are another potential effect of low potassium, since we need potassium and magnesium for our heart to pump. Our heart is a muscle as well. So if your heart is skipping beats or beating harder or faster, that’s a sign of palpitations, which could be from low potassium.
And other symptoms include tingling, numbness, achy muscles, muscle breakdown, feeling tired and stiff. The breakdown of muscle is known as rhabdomyolysis and that breakdown is going to be very much helped with good potassium levels. You’re going to have less muscle breakdown with potassium levels being adequate.
What Are The Strategies to Treat Fibromyalgia and The Firbo Summit | Podcast #291
Hey, guys! Here’s Dr. Justine Marchegiani and Dr. Roger Murphree talking about things to be checked and pointed out in dealing with fibromyalgia.
Fibromyalgia is a disorder characterized by widespread musculoskeletal pain with fatigue, sleep, memory, and mood issues. Dr. Roger shared that the frustrating thing is there are still doctors who don’t believe that it exists, and those who do, don’t understand it.
Some issues reported by most patients with fibromyalgia include pain, lack of sleep, tired/fatigue, brain fog, restless leg syndrome, adrenal fatigue, and more.
Watch the entire podcast to learn more about this disorder and interesting approaches on how to fix it!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:38 Diagnosing Fibromyalgia
10:13 Approaching the Issue
20:14 Unique Treatments
25:16 Infection Pattern with Patients
32:50 Compromised Immune System
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani with Dr. Rodger Murphree here. We’re going to be chatting about fibromyalgia and the fibro summit coming your way. Dr. Roger, welcome to the podcast How we doing?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Hey Dr. Justin, so glad to be here. Thanks for having me. This is gonna be fun.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’m really excited to be part of your summit as well. That summit will be coming out, I think on September 28. So we’ll put some links down below so you guys can get subscribed to the summit. So let’s talk about fibromyalgia. It’s kind of one of these, you know, subjective diagnoses, right? A doctor kind of comes in and you and they do these like they look for different tender spots. How does that diagnosis work?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Well, you know, the frustrating, frustrating thing about Fibromyalgia is there’s still doctors who don’t believe it exists. There’s, there’s still some out there, have that mindset and those that do don’t really understand it, they don’t really know how to treat it and then tell their patients to learn to live with it and the diagnosis is one of elimination. So there’s no really definitive Lead test after that will show you right. And it typically takes you know, three or four years and half a dozen to a dozen doctors before you finally get the diagnosis. And you’re right it typically is a you know, it’s a hands on type of examination but but after they’ve done all the the other workup to rule out, you know rheumatoid arthritis or any type of autoimmune disease or Ms. And then eventually you get the, you know, the diagnosis of fibromyalgia and you kind of stuck with that because it’s kind of a good thing and a bad thing. I mean, it’s good to finally get a diagnosis. But once you do get that diagnosis, it follows you forever. And a lot of times it didn’t serve you very well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, totally. So you go online and you look you can you can get a an image of all the different kind of tender pain spots that they’ll they’ll kind of rub gently and they’re kind of looking for this central allodynia this pain that’s, that’s it’s, it’s not proportional to the amount of physical stimulus stimulus you’re putting in when you’re touching these different spots, whether it’s the shoulder, collarbone, neck arm, just kind of the different joint. So the doctors coming in, they’re going to be running maybe, AMA, HLAB 27, all of these kind of autoimmune markers. If none of them come back, then they’re going to that physical examination. And if there’s pain in those spots at all right, then then that’s kind of the diagnosis, but it’s not really helpful outside of the fact that you know, you got it, but we got this kind of path in the road, we have functional medicine, and we have all of these biologics and pain meds. So what happens next?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Well, you know, the thing is, once you get the diagnosis, oftentimes, I think people have a sigh of relief, because they, they think, oh, at least you know, I’m not crazy because a lot of times, they’re made to feel they they’re lazy, crazy or just a hypochondriac. And nothing can be further from the truth. I mean, nobody would want to make this kind of stuff up that you can’t sleep. You know, he had this diffuse, sometimes disabling pain, no energistics, exhausted, irritable bowel, restless leg syndrome, low moods, anxiety. You know, nobody wants to Make that kind of stuff up but totally the diagnosis then unfortunately what happens is you get past from more you know another doctor you know, you get you get on this medical merry go round. And every doctor you come in contact with, if you mentioned any symptom, any condition, they’re going to try to sweep your fibromyalgia symptoms underneath the Fibromyalgia rug and tell you Oh, yeah, the, you know, the, the stomach pain that you have. That’s fibromyalgia. Oh, yeah, the, you know, the thrush the chip on your tongue. Oh my gosh, there it is the migraines and you know, all these all these are warning signs or symptoms and symptoms or just telling you, you know, telling us that there’s something under underlying this symptom that is, you know, where’s the we need to be looking for the causes, and not treating the symptoms, but unfortunately, once you get that diagnosis, really most doctors just happy to change and learn to live with it, they’re not going to keep looking for the underlying causes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I tell my patients this all the time, like most of the time conventional medicine, I, they’re looking at the downstream symptoms, and typically a diagnosis is a bunch of symptoms that are in an organized fashion, right with a lot of the central allodynia pain, right? That’s your fibromyalgia, if it’s if it’s autoimmune type of pain, where there’s autoimmune markers, maybe that’s rheumatoid arthritis. So you’re just looking for these different symptoms and in these different pattern and once you have those symptoms, they give you an ICD 10 code and then from there, they can prescribe your drug. Now, Fibromyalgia tends to come together a lot of times with chronic fatigue so you get people that are sore, and also tired. Now, we know in functional medicine, that there may be other kind of root causes upstream like with the gut or with the hormones or the adrenals or the thyroid, what are like just the top three like root cause patterns that are upstream that you see are driving a lot of the fibro symptoms downstream.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Well the main thing Justin is there at this allodynia, which is this low pain threshold, right? For them, their pain is magnified and you and I can go, you know, we can go get a massage, we can shake cans, we can, you know, hug our partners, we can do things that you know wouldn’t bother us at all but the fibromyalgia patient any that stimulation, which could send them over the top that so pain is magnified? Yes. But that pain is coming from it can be from wear and tear osteoarthritis or osteoporosis, bone loss, it can be from scar tissue. Past surgeries, it can be from nerve damage, it can be from elevated blood sugar issues, but they have central sensitivity pain syndrome, which means their nervous system is over ramped up, and pain is magnified. And the place to start with these individuals is you’ve got to raise the pain threshold and the best place to do That is making sure that they have plenty of serotonin. So brain hormones, you know you’re familiar with your serotonin level, the higher your pain threshold, and the higher your serotonin level, the less anxious you’re less depress your more mental clarity app. And less likely you have are to have IBS because you have more serotonin receptors in your intestinal tract than you do in your brain. So the place to start for these individuals is number one making sure that they have plenty of serotonin because anybody that has true true fibromyalgia, they’re going to be deficient in serotonin and that’s one of the main driving factors of the underlying symptoms that they have.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s interesting because serotonin we know comes from the amino acid tryptophan right? So I find common thread is going to be poor digestion, in a lot of these fibro patients. So poor digestion, maybe low stomach acid, low enzyme, maybe their diets poor, maybe They’re not eating enough protein, maybe they kind of were on a vegan vegetarian kick. Maybe there’s a gut infection that’s impeding digestion as well. How much do you see digestion? Being an impediment as well as maybe digestive infections too?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Well, it’s certainly a big part of it, for sure. And in the Fibromyalgia community, what we see is that genetically some of them at our disadvantage, just the way God made them. Yeah. Convert trip to fan into five, proxy trip to fan they have a block and they’re kind of around kind of an enzyme pathway. Yeah. And because that conversion is not made, they’re at a disadvantage. So they’re, they’re low and seratonin. Certainly, you know, you
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: B6 playing a big role in that too?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah, so the cofactors as you bring up, you know, to make seratonin you need tryptophane, which turns into hydroxytryptophan, the B vitamins in particular B2 B3, and then any vitamin C and magnesium that’s what Yes, you know, No one has an antidepressant deficiency, you know, yeah. But you could have a five HTP deficiency or B vitamin deficiency and yes, you probably have a magnesium deficiency, if you have fibromyalgia, but the place to start for these individuals is making sure we get that serotonin level up. And when we do that, we see their pain threshold goes up. Absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I see that a lot. I run a lot of organic acid tests, and I’ll look at five hydroxy and dolo acetate, and usually that’s very high or very low. So there’s usually a burning or a total depletion issue there. And I’ve never seen a fibro patient with really good digestion. There’s always some bloating, some gas and cebo or a gut infection. I almost always see that. Now what’s your take on beta endorphin? Because beta endorphin is kind of our natural opiate, and it’s made from 19 amino acids. So I mean, obviously, we see this amino acid kind of trend there any feedback on beta endorphin?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah, one of the things that you don’t have a patient’s do they fill out in the new patient questionnaire, they’ll have a brain function questionnaire, little survey and it across the board, it shows that they’re low in serotonin, but then they may be deficient in dopamine and opioids and some of these other things that show that they have other amino acid deficiencies besides five HTP. Bingo. No, no. So it definitely shows up. That’s a pattern that we see that they’ve Yes, deficient in these amino acids for, you know, whether it’s genetics, or you know, poor diet, or there’s something that’s compromising their ability to be able to absorb these nutrients like SIBO, or leaky gut or some type of bacterial overgrowth.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah so my strategy, I’m curious to get your so my strategy is I try to figure out a way to get the sympathetic nervous system in check, because most of the time, the adrenals is that kind of gateway between, you know, the sympathetic nervous system. It’s kind of how that when you interpret stress, you’re making adrenaline, you’re making cortisol and when you have that level of stress, you’re going to be burning up a lot of those neurotransmitters. So I try to get the adrenals under control, and then I’ll I work on supporting more of those amino acids, more of those cofactors. I try to get tests so I can get specific. What is the root issue? And I’m just curious to know your take on that. How did what’s your kind of out of the gates approach?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Well, there’s for me from doing this for 20 years, found there’s four key things that have to really be addressed. Because if you got 15 tax in your foot, and two or three tax, you’re not going to notice a difference. And that’s-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A great analogy. Excellent analogy.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: You know, what they’re doing is they’re taking resveratrol, or, you know, they’re taking coq10 or tumeric and those things, those are great. But if you don’t pull out a bunch of tacks real quick, you’re never going to see a difference. So totally. It’s the analogy that we’re all born with a stress coping savings account. And in that stress coping savings account, we have certain chemicals that allows us to be able to deal with stress. So we have serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, cortisol, DAGA, Panasonic acid, cortisol, these things Are there and anytime we get under stress, we’re using these chemicals to deal with stress. But those who have fibromyalgia, they haven’t bankrupted their stress coping savings account. So they have this deficit. And then when they, you know, get up to face the day, they’re already done, you know, they just don’t have those chemicals they need. So the first thing that’s gonna happen is we got to replenish that stress coping Satan’s count. And that is done by deep, restorative Delta wave sleep. So if they’re not getting a good night’s sleep on a consistent basis, they’re going to have many of the symptoms that we you know that we associate fiber Imagine if you’re not getting deep restorative sleep, your inflammatory chemicals are increased by 40%. They’re going to have more pain. If they’re not getting deeper short asleep, their pain threshold goes down so pains magnified. They’re going to obviously going to be tired gonna have fatigue, brain fog, which is a common symptom of these individuals. Eero bow, you have more as I mentioned, more serotonin receptors. In your test or trial, you’re doing your brain. restless leg syndrome starts to show up. Once they can get a consistent deep restorative sleep, then they’re going to see that many of those tacks we can start to pull those out. So the first place to start is deep restorative sleep, making sure they’re getting plenty of serotonin. And then the next place is, as you already mentioned, is the adrenal fatigue. But because they get a good night’s sleep, and they start to feel better, then even though they’re cautioned not to do that, do this, you know, in my book, they’ll go out and do things hadn’t been able to do in years, and then they’ll have a fibro flare and they’ll be back in bed because they don’t have the stamina, or resiliency to stress, physical stress, mental stress, real or imagined. And so if they don’t fix their stress coping glands, the adrenal guess, be vulnerable. The third thing is in your already mentioned up mentioned this astutely. You, you’ve got to fix any kind of gi issues. Yeah, amongst with digestion or problems or elimination, you know, problems absorbing in every fibromyalgia patient I’ve ever worked with last 20 years. There’s something there whether that’s SIBO leaky gut, yeast overgrowth, parasites are just reflux and malabsorption. They’re not absorbing, they’re huge. That’s that’s got to be fixed. The last thing, which really could easily be the first thing, it’s you’ve got to lay the foundation with high doses, but the right combination of vitamins, minerals, amino acid and central fatty acids, because if you don’t have these building blocks, you can’t make these hormones and chemicals that they need to write themselves. In. Now, most people have tried a multivitamin. They tried this, they tried that. But what they’ve taken is, is so inferior to what they need, they’re they’re looking And things like, a Centrum silver or one a day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Which is you know, based on the RTA the recommended disease allowance, right? Yeah, it’s just enough to get, you know, keep you from getting scurvy, or berry berry, it’s not gonna, you know, provide optimal nutrients that you need to be healthy is, you know, so So it’s this, this four pillars that I think are just crucial you got to get those. And then, you know really once you do that you’ve pulled out a lot of tax, you may be pulled out 10 or 12 tax. Now there’s three texts that are still left, and they’re still giving you trouble. But at least you’ve made this dramatic impact. And then you’ve got to go look for what are some of the underlying other underlying conditions that may be driving the symptoms like, you know, problem with their thyroid?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s really interesting because not all the tax create the same amount of pain. So sometimes it’s the eight tax you pull that out, so Whoa, a really big improvement and sometimes you pull them out. And then the improvements delayed like it’s like, oh, I’m starting to see a five or 10% improvement one to two months later. So it’s interesting. Where the compliance factor like really getting the patient’s mindset on board is is crucial because it’s never going to be a meet every now and then that you get a miracle tax. Sometimes it’s too late. So you got to paint that big picture and compliance is big. And when you talk about some of the nutrients, you do have a really good multivitamin that you formulate or what what should people be looking in their multis at certain doses at certain the quality of the nutrients? What should they be looking for, Dr. Roger?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah, so years ago, when I start treating Fibromyalgia we had I had a medical clinic where we had five medical doctors work for me. And we did high doses of IV therapy. So we did Myers cocktails back then. Yeah. And we found by doing that, Justin that if we gave them these vitamins and minerals, that they slept better, they had less pain, he had more energy, they had better mental clarity. They just felt better. But it wasn’t practical for people every day couldn’t do it hooked up to an IV. Yes, years ago, I developed this thing called the CFS fibro pack, which has high doses of vitamins, minerals, amino acids and essential fatty acids in there and some other things like malic acid, magnesium, potassium sparks a to help drop the cellular energy, it but you can find something, you know, similar for you but, but that is the cornerstone of what my patients take. They take that, as well as some other supplements like a good digestive enzyme, an over the counter adrenal cortex, supplement and then the five HTP that makes up this thing called the jumpstart protocols, that people who read my book, they’re encouraged to try that on their own and get as far as they can before they reach out to me to set up a phone console.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. And you mentioned the serotonin which you mentioned lowers that pain threshold which is which is really important. But we know serotonin also is that precursor to melatonin. Which helps to sleep and you mentioned the Delta wave in the sleep. So it’s kind of like, everything’s kind of connected. It’s not just like, one web, it’s like you hit one web, it moves the whole spiderweb. So you Okay, you you increase the pain threshold, and then you help the sleep. And then the sleep helps the adrenals and the adrenals help the inflammation, and it just keeps on spiraling.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah, it’s all connected. You know, it’s a myriad connections there. Yeah, the five HTP increases your natural sleep hormone melatonin by 200%. So that was when I started doing the research on that. Well, it’s been two decades ago, and found that correlation, it was a no brainer to start putting my patients on that. And then thankfully, along with making the serotonin, it really encourages them to be able to wind down and be able to get a good night’s sleep. Now there’s some other things typically have to add to that sometimes adding some additional melatonin to the five HTP. But the five HTP has been extremely helpful for these folks.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you’re not getting I mean, if you’re not getting the optimal results regarding sleep, I mean, imagine you may keep the five there to help with the serotonin so the pain improves but Wendy added melatonin to the mix. When does that happen?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Bite promote sleep protocol it’s they start off with 100 milligrams of five HTP 30 minutes for bed with a little bit of grape juice doesn’t take much, but the grape juice is going to cause the body to release insulin to help pull that serotonin pass the blood brain barrier. Yeah, going to the stomach just a little trick. And then if they don’t fall asleep within 30 minutes, then that in sleep through the night, the next night they go to 200 milligrams and then they need to they get a 300 milligrams, but they get up to 300 milligrams and they’re still not falling asleep or they’re not staying asleep. That’s when I would start adding the melatonin preferably sublingual melatonin somewhere, you know three milligrams or so and they and they can increase that up each night up to about 12 milligrams and, and then hopefully that does the trick. If it doesn’t. Then I would add things like gamma means butyric acid GABA. So I have a little sleep form that I put together that it’s combination of GABA and l theanine, ashwagandha and delirium, and passion, passion flower, that can be taken to really calms them down before bed. But it’s even more useful for those individuals who wake up at, you know, two, three o’clock in the morning can’t go back to sleep, they can take this product called Delta sleep, or something similar. And it allow them to fall back to sleep within, you know, 10 minutes or so, and it doesn’t make them feel hungover, dopey or sleepy The next day, like some of the prescription medications would.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Tat’s great. I think we’re just really dropping a lot of key clinical pearls here. So if you’re a patient and you’re have these kind of issues, try to glom on to one or two of these things. I think it’s really important especially if you’re in that Fibromyalgia camp, you really want to work with the practitioner because there’s a lot of as Dr. Roger gave the example of tax you got to pull out and these are a couple of one or two key tax, but there’s always a Plan B a Plan C a plan D, it always seems easy when everything works with Plan A the first time around, but I think Dr. Roger will probably agree a lot of times you have to dig deep into that tool basket with a lot of other plans too. Would you agree?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Oh, absolutely. But I think you’ve got to lay the foundation for what, what trips people up with fibromyalgia and those trying to treat Fibromyalgia is they try to put the cart in front of the horse, you know, is you know, there’s such a unique individual. And a lot of times they may go to an integrative doctor or maybe a function doctor. And, and he or she will, okay, let’s put you on biomechanical hormone replacement therapy because that’s, you know, as a female, it’s, you know, that’s a lot of times what they do, but that may not work and usually does it you to me, these four steps that I just mentioned, that
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Do you mind if we repeat the steps one more time, what they are?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Deeper store to sleep. You got to replenish your stress coping stages account. And the way you do that you you make deposits into your stress coping savings account by going into deep store to sleep. So you’ve got your peritonei level up. So five HTP and then the second one is you got to fix adrenal fatigue every everybody as far as adrenal fatigue, so I use adrenal cortex glandulars for my patients. And then number three was digestive issues. I put everybody on digestive enzyme and then if they need other treatments for cebo, leaky gut or things we’ll deal with that. And then the last one was a good high dose, multivitamin mineral formula with essential fatty acids Fishel, malic acid, extra magnesium, which is so important, but those four things provide the foundation really to build upon it really, you know what it does? It’s, if you kind of think of you know, if you got this complicated jigsaw puzzle. And you just throw all the pieces out on the table. And until you get the corner of the puzzle, right? You’re, you could just be looking forever to put the pieces together. But once you get the corner, now everything starts to come together, you can build that puzzle. So the first four things, make up one core in a corner, I’m sorry. And then the puzzle starts to come together. But you may have to, you know, find another piece of the puzzle that’s, that’s eluding you could be a problem in your thyroid. Could be a problem with yeast overgrowth could be a problem of food allergies. But if you don’t get that first corner, boy, you’re going to struggle, you’re really going to struggle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally agree that makes a lot of sense. Now, when you’re working with patients, are you testing their adrenals? And it sounds like you’re finding a lot of low cortisol in your patients. Is that true?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah. So I think you know, we These individuals are very complicated ideally, although I do have programs where they can try to do it themselves to talk about that in the book. Ideally you want to test I mean, you’re not trained in functional medicine. You know, you don’t want to guess you really want to try to laser in find out where the key linchpins for helping these folks and you want to know what’s going on. So yeah, when I’m when I’m doing a four sample saliva test for their adrenals, I see it’s all over the place. So it’s low. In the morning, it’s bottomed out and sky high first thing, you know, because they’re not yet now drive that, that level up. But it’s about really balancing that out because it’s, you know, very well, a lot of times we’ll see that there. DAGA is it then of course, our levels, okay. But their DAGA is really high. And that’s a sign that the body’s trying to hang on. Yeah, but it was going to bottom out right. Or they’re gay is bottomed out and of course, all levels are bottomed out. So you had treat both of those, or you may find, like I do a lot of patients is that they have a low cortisol in the morning. And then as the day goes on, you know, it should, it should keep going lower. But for, for these individuals, their cortisol level actually spikes towards bedtime. So there’s like they’re catching their second window.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they just rhythm almost.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: All day they’re exhausted. And then about nine o’clock they catch the second wind and like, Oh, well, I haven’t been able to do anything all day. Let me go clean up the kitchen or straighten up or you know, wherever it is, and then they miss the window of opportunity to get in bed on time and now they’re, you know, they really just continue to throw their sleep wake cycle into further Helter Skelter.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. Do you test any of the total cortisol? Do you do any of the urinary cortisol as well to get a window into free as well as total?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: I don’t. I don’t do that and find it. I guess. Probably just from doing this for so long, I know that the majority, I would say when I say the majority, I mean 98% of them are gonna have a problem with their adrenals. And if I can just make sure what the pattern is, then I can on the right supplements that will you know, that will correct that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What also do you see in regards to an infection pattern like pate with patients? I’m seeing h pylori blastocyst is hominis. Sometimes you see things like epstein barr, maybe even a Lyme issue, what kind of infections Do you see? And it sounds like you kind of have that priority. You hit those four pillars that you mentioned. Right? adrenals and, and the nutrients and the sleep and etc. And then you kind of do dive into infections later, is that part of when you’re addressing the gut stuff? Where do the infections come in? And what are the top maybe three or five infections that you see that play a role with fibromyalgia?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Probably the most consistent one is yeast overgrowth. So I test everybody for yeast overgrowth, test, everybody for parasites. blastocyst is hominis definitely shows SIBO is definitely a thing that is for whatever reason, you know, I think you kind of run into these patterns where you you know you get one and you get two then you get you know dozens I’m at a time. Mold issues certainly starting to show up. But definitely infections are there. I’m really careful not to go after them. Initially, certainly not aggressively because we Fibromyalgia they, they they can’t handle the stress they bankrupted their stress coping chemicals, and they bankrupted their stress coping gland. So stress is magnified. I don’t want to get aggressive on treating yeast or SIBO or some of these things that show up until I get them going into deeper storage of sleep. Start working on their dreams and then yeah, absolutely. Then you have to look at you know, definitely h pylori shows up as well. You have to start dealing with those because that’s something that’s going to be leftover that’s going to create, if it’s, you know, if it’s if it’s leaky, God is you know, that’s going to create More information and more pains. Yes, with at some point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I just really wanted to highlight that for the listeners because this is probably the biggest mistake I see with a lot of my patients and people that I connect with online is we just live in this generation that’s antibiotic driven. Oh, you have an infection, staph strep STD, here’s an antibiotic knock it out. And that can be stressful on the body. Number one, it wipes out the microbiome which affects the immune system, gut permeability, but it’s stressful going after an infection. And when you don’t have the reserves, your sleeps already amassed, you’re nutritionally deficient, you can’t digest that’s like a big stress ball on that bucket or another five tacks underneath that foot. So I’m really glad that you highlighted that.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah, you know, and I think that’s the thing is what you want to do with fibromyalgia you want to try to find and fix the underlying causes, because really, you know, Fibromyalgia is just a name. It’s all it is, is a name given to a group of symptoms that people have in common, and we call it fibromyalgia. And so if you can start to find and fix each underlying cause Eventually you’re going to get your life back and that may take you know, that may take different things but certainly the God is you know, that’s number four you have to you know, you have to fix that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And you mentioned a couple of different things and I know the protocols are going to be specific to each individual person and where they’re at. I get that so people that are listening, I want you to just talk about do you have like a couple of your favorite herbs on the gut side and also do you have a couple of your favorite herbs on the virus side and how much do viruses play a role in this whole thing?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: You know, as far as I don’t use a lot of herbals I do use some but I don’t use it. He is some may think think that that in the fiber match community. A lot of them have chemical sensitivities have issues. A careful what you what you do in the having said that I also really recommend everybody a food allergy test because food allergies, right masqueraders but for digestion, the first thing I do is put them on digestive enzymes or on the team You know, make sure that we we start from the beginning, you know, make sure they’re digesting their food.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s key. Yeah.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: If they have issues with with yeast overgrowth, or even SIBO then I’ll turn to things like bio seed, which has oregano, and berberine and some of these golden still herbals in their-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Black walnut, ekinesia. Yep.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: But I don’t use a tremendous amount of herbals, just for the fact that I really find that using the right doses of vitamins and minerals, essential fatty acids and amino acids typically start to turn these individuals around, you know, but but definitely there is a place for for berberine and undecylenic acid and caprylic acid. I mean, there’s definitely those can be incredibly helpful for these folks.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about the virus stuff? Do you use any natural antiviral supports, and what viruses Do you see in And what are your like top three on the anti viral side?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: You know, it’s interesting that I don’t see a lot of viruses, which really surprises people when I say that I used to more so than I do now, let me let me explain why that is. You know, people think of fibromyalgia is being driven by a virus, and they can’t have viruses. But if you look at you know, Fibromyalgia is on one end of this clothesline, and chronic fatigue syndrome is on the other end of the clothesline and sometimes they get lumped together and you can have both, but if you look at true fibromyalgia and true chronic fatigue syndrome, with true fibromyalgia, their symptoms are number one pain, right, but they can’t sleep and they have no energy and, and then if you look at the true chronic fatigue syndrome, they can have trouble with their sleep and they do have achy flu like pain. And obviously the number one symptom is no energy, so fatigue, but the difference between the two is that those are Fibromyalgia don’t necessarily have anything wrong with your immune system. Those with chronic fatigue syndrome all have some type of immune dynamic, something that is, you know that is compromised that so that they’re always fighting off some type of infection. And absolutely in those individuals, you got to go after that, find out what that is and use things like lacto Fearon, or using thymus extract some of these things in Oilers system that can be incredibly, incredibly beta one, three glucan some of these things that I use for these individual, but you know, it’s odd because over the years, for whatever reason, I have attracted less chronic fatigue syndrome patients in the last probably 10 years, than I have fibro to me fibro, and I hate to be careful how I say this. Yeah, Ramalgyia is I won’t say it’s easy but for me it’s it’s there’s a system that seems to work chronic takes syndrome. Once you start working with that, if you’re not careful, you open up Pandora’s box and you find that not only is it viruses, but then you also have parasites and you have Lyme and many things that you mentioned, that tends to be more down on this end of the clothesline with property syndrome, than it does fibro.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you’re differentiating that between the fact your fibro have the central allodynia that’s just the wound up nervous system the pain spots at the joints and throughout the body, but they don’t really have the energy problems or energy still pretty good is that the differentiating factor?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Know the difference because we’ve thought about them and they have many of the same symptoms as those with chronic fatigue syndrome. Yeah, separates and you can be anywhere along the clothesline, you know, but what separates the two is that those with chronic fatigue syndrome always have a compromised immune system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And your by your saying compromised immune system, so they the fibro patients still might have fatigue, but you’re just not seeing what a diagnosed autoimmune condition along with fibro or they get sick a lot. How are you defining compromised immune system?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: So for those who have fibromyalgia, they, they normally don’t have problems with random sore throats. They don’t have swollen lymph glands. If we test them, they don’t show antibodies to epstein barr virus, or cytomegalovirus kraftig syndrome, you’re going to see elevated epstein barr virus cytomegalovirus herpes viruses, they’re going to get random sore throats out of the blue. They’re going to have palpable lymph nodes, you know, they’re gonna be swollen glands. Oftentimes, they have issues with laryngitis, they just lose their voice for days at a time because they get so exhausted. With fibro, you can have some of that. But that’s not the norm in kraftig syndrome. That’s the norm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I’m just trying to wrap my head around this because the diagnoses are kind of a little bit flaky. So if these fibro patients still have they’re still really tired, right? What’s the conventional different like, if you’re a conventional Medical Doctor, what makes you diagnose this person with chronic fatigue with the immune stuff, but these people over here without the immune stuff, they’re still tired. What what allows them to get that chronic fatigue diagnosis on the conventional side?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: I think typically it comes down to the doctor that they see. So that’s more familiar with complex syndrome, they’re probably going to get that diagnosis than they would fibro. If you said doctor this more for me with fibromyalgia, they’re going to get that diagnosis. And right now you got even though there’s not a lot, you probably got more doctors who are familiar at least with fibromyalgia, they don’t really know how to treat it. Then they have conflict syndrome that that illness, chronic fatigue syndrome is something that most doctors really don’t know anything about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there’s another name for for fibromyalgia over in Europe, right it’s the mycologia with it with the name Britain Europe.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah, what now for [inaudible] syndrome is myalgic encephalitis so with us.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, okay. And so it sounds like to me it’s not necessarily the diagnosis that matters it’s more the immune symptoms of antibodies to these different viruses and then that chronic immune reaction lymph nodes chronically sick is that is that kind of if we kind of really boil it down is that more specific you think?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah, but I think we got to be careful because I think there’s a misconception that Fibromyalgia is an autoimmune disease ever seen that in any in you know, we’ve been looking for the smoking gun, it’s not there. So I don’t believe Fibromyalgia autoimmune disease. We don’t know if chronic fatigue syndrome is it probably could have an autoimmune component to it. We haven’t found that yet either.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So a lot of thyroid autoimmune people that have fiber though?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Now that I was gonna say is see a ton of autoimmune hashimotos thyroiditis. So with in the patients that I work with F5 about 70% of them have something wrong with their thyroid. Many of those have Hashimotos many, many of those with hashimotos have never been properly diagnosed. So they have the, you know, the festering symptoms they had for 5-10 years. No one’s ever checked their antibodies or thyroid antibodies. So that they never knew they had it. But yeah, definitely that, but you know, I don’t see. I don’t see lupus. I don’t see rheumatoid. I don’t see sjogrens I don’t, it’s there. It can be, you know, could be could be a companion to the Fibromyalgia but it’s not what’s driving the fibromyalgia.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, cuz I see did you see patients though with a lot of the hashimotos and the fibro and of course I do find that like gluten. Cutting gluten out really helps a lot of the the pain symptoms and I know gluten plays a big role of gut permeability. So even though the research may not show that I have a sneaking suspicion there has to be something underneath the hood, or we wouldn’t see a lot of these connections. When you address them, they improve prove a lot of those fibro symptoms.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah, you know, and you know, that’s one of the big conundrums for fibromyalgia. I think there’s just so many things that are wrong.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, the hard part.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Can write itself the way that you and I were trained in chiropractic school that innate intelligence. You know, we’re born with this incredibly inborn healing Dynamo system, that normally we don’t have to think about taking 12 breaths per minute or pumping blood to 60 miles of arteries and veins, we just write these things. But with fibromyalgia, those systems get get compromised the hypothalamus, the pituitary adrenal HPA axis, when it gets under too much stress, it can’t regulate these different systems. And now because of that, you see, so many symptoms start to show up, because so many systems are not working like they’re supposed to. And that’s incredibly challenging for the doctor that wants to try to try fibromyalgia, most most work because it’s too complicated. And it’s incredibly challenging for the patient. Because where do you start?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I totally agree. And you’ve done a great job during the podcast just to kind of outline a couple of the really good pillars. Obviously we have the fibroid, the fibro summit coming up in the next two weeks on the 28th. So really excited. We’re gonna put the links down below as well. I see a book on the shelf back there. Is that your book? Would you mind put it on screen?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah. So this is my Treating and Beating Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome book. It’s in his fifth edition, the sixth now? I didn’t November so yeah, labor of love. You know, for the last 20 years, you know, it’s been my mission to help those with fibromyalgia, learn how to live healthier, happier, more productive lives because you know what they’re being told right now Justin is just learning to live with it. But you know, I want to learn to live with chronic pain, no energy, brain fog, insomnia, restless leg syndrome, irritable bowel mean. That’s it. That’s not living that’s existing. So, you know, the fibro summit is an opportunity for individuals with fibromyalgia, to get a breath of fresh air, sort of set off all the doom and gloom out there. They actually can learn from people like yourself, she did a fantastic interview, all about thyroid, we did a deep dive into this interview. So people like yourself are sharing incredible information, that if you have fibro or even if you just want to be healthier, there’s so much we share in the summit, about mold and parasites and adrenal fatigue and insomnia and leaky gut and gluten intolerance and food allergies, huge. If you’ve just can’t get a few little key things from these interviews. It may be the missing piece of the puzzle that you need to put it all together and get your life back.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, that’s awesome. Now, if patients want to get a hold of you, they’re like, great, I’m going to get the book. I’m going to get the summit. I’m going to start applying some of this stuff, but I want to work with you. How did patients work with you?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah. So appreciate that. They can go to yourfibrodoctor.com and there’s free videos in there, blogs, free protocol and a tremendous amount of free information so I encourage you to check out, see if it resonates with you. If it does, you’re on the right track.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. We’ll put the links down below for the book, for the summit, for Dr. Roger’s website. Dr Roger, anything else you want to leave the listeners with? Do you have a youtube channel or a podcast? Anything else people can get more info about you?
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Yeah so we do have a youtube channel and you’ll see that on the website, a blog, both of those podcasts coming soon. And you’re going to be one of my first guests by the way. We’ll be coming soon and I just want to say thank you. I want to thank you for for everything that you do because the information you’re sharing is so needed and without people like yourself taking the time, making the time because I know you’re busy just like I am and you’re dedicated to getting the the message out there, that you you know that you don’t want to be just treating symptoms. You really want to be finding and fixing these underlying causes whether you have fibromyalgia or you have migraine headaches or type 2 diabetes and your podcast which I’ve been checking out here recently is just fantastic. So thanks for what you do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you so much Dr Roger. Really appreciate it. And people listen to so much information here especially if you’re coming at this with fibro or chronic fatigue, it’s hard to grab a lot of these things. So just rewind it, listen to it again, try to grab one thing that Dr Roger said. Try to get the book, get access to the information and make sure you get on that summit. Amazing great speakers there. Dr Roger thank you so much for being a part of today’s podcast.
Dr. Rodger Murphree: Thank you Justin so appreciate it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.