Post Viral Immune Support To Improve Energy | Podcast #363
What you eat after a viral infection, when symptoms of fatigue persist, can have a marked impact on your speed of recovery. Dr. J and Evan discuss that specific foods need to be avoided or included in your diet to improve your immune system. So what are the truth and the evidence about diet and post-viral immune support?
The good news is that most people will benefit from some considerations when recovering from illness or infection. Having post-viral fatigue means that you will not have your usual energy to think, shop, prepare or eat as before. Be very practical and kind to yourself. Dr. J and Evan added that diet modification is vital in your recovery.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
1:57 – The role of acid-pH level in the digestive system
5:01 – The link of depression and anxiety to bloating
10:02 – The benefits of probiotics and effects of stress to digestive health
18:17 – Functional medicine strategies and testing to find the root cause of bloating
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J in the house with Evan Brand. Evan, how you doing man? How are your holidays? How’s everything going brother?
Evan Brand: Everything’s going pretty good. I’m trying to start 2022 off with a bang. I suspect it’s gonna be a better year than 2021. People are becoming smarter. They’re becoming more educated. They’re becoming more resourceful. People are waking up. There’s a lot of, we’re in the great awakening and so I think, this is an important time to be alive and an important time if you’re a parent, if you’re a husband, a wife, if you’ve got kids, if you’re a teacher. It’s important time to keep your eyes open and keep your ears to the ground because stuff changes quickly and you got to be like a little speedboot. You got to be able to take turns quick, you don’t want to be the titanic right now, you don’t wanna be slow in taking big turns, you gotta be nimble in these times and so what I’m alluding to is just you got to be able to navigate the world of health which is quickly evolving and that’s true. What we’re trying to talk about today is post viral fatigue and really that’s just the title but this really could apply to bacterial infections and parasites and mold exposure but we just wanted to try to zoom in a little bit specifically on post viral fatigue and things like Epstein Barr virus, many people are familiar with and there’s a lot of people that report their chronic fatigue, picking up after something like EBV, we’ve seen it a lot with the virus going around now which would probably get flagged and censored so we won’t say it but you know what it is and there’s a lot of post, uh, viral fatigue going on from that and so you and I have dealt with some of that, you’re still going through the thick of it right now but I think you’re coming through pretty well, you’re still working and obviously you’re on your feet right now literally standing so that’s exciting and yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For the listeners, I had COVID last week, actually symptoms started on Wednesday. Really two hard days of symptoms, I was able to work the whole time though, I mean I think that the symptoms for my COVID that were, um, tough was I would say achiness and then like sensitivity to cold like it was like 45 degrees out and it felt like it was minus 10. So, I would say sensitivity to cold and then also getting really hot at some points, getting out where I would sweat through my shirt. So hot and cold, achiness/ headaches and then like easily out of breath but I mean for me I mean, it was still fine where I could work and still do the things I had to do. So it wasn’t that bad, I mean, I had a flu in 2013 where I was literally laid up for over two days and I couldn’t do anything so I know laid up feels like it wasn’t even close to the flu of 2013 for me, that was really hard. So, definitely, um, not as bad, I actually was my own worst enemy because on Friday I was feeling like really good like 80-90% better and did like 2-3 hours of housework like cleaning my house like doing all this different stuff because it was a beautiful day and I’m like all right let me get on top of some work, work 3 hours probably walk like 15,000 steps and that next day there was a major relapse in how I felt. It was probably like I went backwards 30-40%. Here I was at 80% probably going backwards to 50. I was like whoa what happened and so then I just kind of got in the straight and narrow and just said okay I gotta really make sure I kind of make sure I kind of keep it easy until I get back to 100% because, you know, um, it just you didn’t realize how much, uh, things could go backwards so fast so you really gotta wait till you get a 100% on things and so overall I mean the only thing lingering for me right now is a slight bit of um out of breathiness and, uh, this little lingering deep tickle cough like right now you can feel it like someone’s tickling the back of your throat with your finger and you want to cough to scratch it, kind of like that and so that’s where I’m at now. That’s like kind of makes it feel like I scratch it right there, right. So, I’m doing some ginger tea, I’m doing with the Manuka honey that soothes it like that helps with the irritation. It’s not knocking the cough down. Doing some, Elderberry, um, doing some thieves, uh, natural cough drops with essential oils, um, also doing some nebulizer so I’m doing some glutathione nebulization so those are couple of things I’m doing and then obviously sinus flushes, the amount of mucus that is coming out of me is out of control so sinus flushes are really, really important because if you do not flush your sinuses, the amount of stuff that stays inside of you, oh my God. So, flushing my sinuses out 3-4 times a day, you know, really good saline reverse osmosis with a little bit of silver in there to kind of keep things flushed out is helping a lot. So, that’s kind of where I’m at but honestly feeling pretty good, um, the whole family got it purposefully, my wife had it and I’m like come over here honey gave her a big kiss and then I kissed all my kids, I’m like we’re done. We’re gonna get this thing all together, be done with it all that way we’re not, you know, I get it next month and then I’m isolating for two weeks and then my kids get no we’re gonna get it all at the same time and surprisingly my kids’ symptoms were 80% less than the adults, super, super minor. I couldn’t believe how minor it was for the kids, so very interesting. So, that was kind of my experience with, uh, with the big C, uh, so to speak. And also, the big correlation I was listening to someone talk about this, the, a lot of the post C symptoms that we see after, right, people that have dysglycemia, and blood sugar issues tend to be a big driving factor of a lot of these post viral symptoms afterwards. Talking about post-viral fatigue, one of the big things is make sure you manage your glycemia, meaning you’re having good protein, you’re having good fats, you’re not eating a bunch of refined sugar, grains, those kinds of things. Make sure you put good metaphorical logs on the fire, good proteins, good fats to really work on blood sugar stability.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Yeah. We’ll I’m glad that you’re coming through it. Regarding the shortness of breath, I would kind of put that in the same category as the post viral fatigue because that shortness of breath can create fatigue and the best thing that’s helped me and has helped many clients is doing the color oxygen. So, ChlorOxygen, you can get that on amazon, it’s readily available. And it’s just a, it’s a liquid chlorophyll extract. So, when you do that within probably 5-10 minutes, you can feel a difference, so it’s like C-h-l-o-r-Oxygen, ChlorOxygen. I would probably do 10-20 drops up to 3 times per day. That thing is absolutely incredible. You can go as high as one tablespoon in 20 ounces of water and just sip on that throughout the day. I had one guy in New York, major, major issues with shortness of breath in the acute and the long term and that ChlorOxygen literally just turned his situation around. So, I’d get some of that stuff.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, it’s C-h-l-o-r Oxygen?
Evan Brand: Yeah, ChlorOxygen. Yeah, and it comes in a little bottle tincture and it’s incredible. Also, something I’ve used personally, I’ve used with several clients too is Ailanthus. Ailanthus is three of heaven which is an invasive tree. I see a lot of it in Kentucky but you can buy Ailanthus tincture and that one is also really, really good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Is this the one, right here, Is the ChlorOxygen?
Evan Brand: Yeah. That’s the one. Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Cool.
Evan Brand: Get you some of that but should help because that’s the problem is, you know, the shortness of breath was pretty bad for me and I felt better, you know, I got infected a long time ago. It was like August 2020 and then six months later that’s when I started to have some shortness of breath which I was like, holy crap and so luckily, I was able to knock it out, uh, with Demectin and uh, yeah, Demectin really helped me and then the nebulizer and the ChlorOxygen, I would say that combination was an absolute game changer, luckily, I haven’t had any issues since then. But what we are seeing is that the mitochondria have a role in this and some of this post-viral fatigue we’re seeing is due to mitochondrial damage so I’ve been fortunate enough to see a few dozen people now. And in terms of organic acids testing after the virus, and we are seeing that the mitochondria definitely showed dysfunction. You and I talked about this many times on other podcast about the mitochondria. We can measure the dysfunction and so what we’re doing is we’re coming in with mitochondrial support nutrients so CoQ10, we’re coming in with carnitine, ribose, a lot of these amino acids and B vitamins like riboflavin which can help fuel the krebs cycle and then also we can use things like PQQ to help get the mitochondrial biogenesis going, meaning we’re literally making new mitochondria so we can measure this on paper. So, if you guys are suffering, you know, one of us can reach out or you reach out to us rather and then we can get the urine looked at because we can measure this. You don’t have to guess where is this fatigue coming from. If it’s a mitochondrial induced problem, we can measure that. Now, you have permission to have multiple things wrong with you so there could be a dopamine problem, there could be a mitochondrial problem, there could be toxin problem. So, rarely is there one issue causing this fatigue but the goal is for us to try to get as many puzzle pieces laid out in front of us and then make an appropriate protocol.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I’d say, the worst thing about COVID for me right now, coffee tastes bitter like it tastes bitter, almost a little bit sour, does not taste like coffee. I’ve almost been like I’m not even gonna drink it right now until this thing gets better because it does not taste that good but for me I’m just alright, I got, you know, 20 grams of collagen in there, I got some good fats, I kind of look at it as like a meal replacement for me. So, that’s probably the worst thing the whole time. For me, it kind of felt like a cold. I’d say a mild, mild to middle of the road cold. The only thing that really surprised me was that, that back swing where I was like 80% better and then went backwards that was the hardest thing.
Evan Brand: And, it could have been you overdoing it for sure, I mean,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: oh, you totally did.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean I did have a little bit of that too where I kind of felt like I was better, overdid it and then I heard it again, so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100%. So, excuse me, anything else you wanted to highlight on that so far? I would say post-viral stuff, the things that I’m doing right now and I recommend people do, in general, are gonna be Adaptogens and I like medicinal mushrooms. So, Shiitake, Maitake, Reishi. Reishi is great. I love it because it does deactivate viruses. It does build up and support the natural killer immune cells so I do like that, uh, any type of ginseng, Ashwagandha, these are things that help support energy production, support the adrenals, help buffer the HPA excess. So, any of these types of things are gonna be, uh, helpful too.
Evan Brand: You need to get on some Lion’s Mane too for your taste because what I’m finding is that the nerves are damaged and that’s affecting the sinus. So, the sense of smell, sense of taste, some of that is related to nerve damage. So, I would probably hit Lion’s Mane, maybe like two caps twice a day. That’s been helpful to restore the sense of smell and taste in some people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s probably not damaged. It’s probably just more inflammation, right?
Evan Brand: Well, the long-term stuff, I’m talking to people just long-term. I’m talking to people that you know 6-8 months later say, I still can’t taste or smell. Bringing in Lion’s Mane, like 2 caps twice a day. It takes a few months but you know it does increase nerve growth factor and so I think that’s the mechanism.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s interesting. Yeah. I do have some Lion’s Mane. I’ll definitely add that in. I mean, I think medicinal mushrooms are gonna be really good to, um, be on top of, uh, just supporting your immune system and like helping with, um, the body regenerate and heal better.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Gabe was asking a question in the live chat on YouTube. How did you guys catch it? I don’t know, I mean I work from home. You know, I’ve got a home office, uh, Justin has a home office as well, you know, I do go out, uh.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Personally, it’s the new variant. The new variant has an R-naught of seven, which is that’s equal to, uh, measles so the delta variant had an R-naught of 2 or 3 so that means for every one person that gets it, it can be passed to 2-3 on average, right. The new omicron variant, it’s seven, so you can literally pass it to seven people so I think my wife was in a yoga class with three people and they were like spread out across that broom like they were like way you know spaced apart, you know, for just all the safety reasons and it was still able to get it so my whole take on omicron, it’s very, um, I think the symptoms are milder than delta for sure. That’s what everything’s been reported but, um, it’s way more contagious. Everyone’s gonna get it at this point, you just gotta have your plan and, um, be ready ahead of time, right? People don’t have a plan and then when they get it then they get stuck and they feel like they have to go to the hospital and you don’t have as many options there so try to have a, um, outpatient plan ready to rock and roll but yeah, you’re gonna get it because the, um, our knot on this thing, right, is that seven which is at a level close to measles so it’s right there. So, if you haven’t got it yet, you will. Anything else you wanna highlight on the immune side, on the post-viral stuff obviously I’m a big fan of ginger, I think ginger is nice because it’s anti-inflammatory, anti-viral, uh, helps with lymphatic. So, if your kind of like have a lot of like stagnant lymph in the chest area or in the neck I really keeps the lymph moving all that’s very helpful.
Evan Brand: Yeah. There was, uh, one person that commented if you’ve had delta you should have some memory T cells that will help if you get infected. Yes supposedly. Supposedly, um.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You definitely should have memory T cells as well as memory B cells, right? So, even if you were to get sick again, um, you’re gonna be able to recruit antibodies way faster, right? Normally when you get sick if you’re first time getting exposed to an infection it takes about a week or so to really get those antibodies ramped up and so even if you were to get sick twice, you’re gonna be able to make those antibodies inside of, you know, 24 hours or so. So, you’re gonna be able to bring those antibodies to the table a lot faster and so that’s, um, that’s pretty cool. That’s pretty helpful.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Other strategies, uh, post-viral fatigue hyperbaric oxygen has been helpful. I’ve seen several clients that luckily have lived in a city where they’ve had access to do hyperbaric oxygen. Essentially, what it is, is it’s replicating being under water under water about 10 to 12 feet so that pressure is helping to get oxygen deeper inside of you. So, some of these tissues may have been starved of oxygen. This sort of mild hypoxia or hypoxemia, you know, you can basically reverse that by getting the hyperbaric oxygen. There are some people that can do there’s oxygen cans, little portable oxygen shots, if you will but it’s nothing compared to an oxygen concentrator with the hyperbaric oxygen so that’s good ongoing, I mean, I’ve had clients with Lyme that have done hyperbaric we know that’s incredible for traumatic brain injuries and concussions and that sort of thing. So, even if this is just a long-term fatigue problem, not related to viral issues at all, you know, hyperbaric is another good tool, you’re looking at probably around 100 a session but, you know, what, what’s your health? What is your health worth? So.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. One thing I did was very helpful was use my infrared sauna the last couple of days. That was helpful, just getting a really good sweat in felt very good, you know, raising that body temperature up can be very helpful just at um at your body knocking down viruses. That’s part of the reason why you get, um, chill while you get the nutshells but, uh, why you get a fever right. It’s part of the reason your immune system is actually knocking down some of that bacteria and or viruses by doing it that way so using an infrared sauna can be helpful too.
Evan Brand: So, look at your mitochondria, get your organic acids test done, we can measure that and look at mitochondrial function come in with specific support whether it’s B vitamins, adaptogenic herbs like Rhodiola, you mentioned, Siberian ginseng or Eleuthero. There’s medicinal mushrooms like cordyceps which there is some benefits. There are some papers on cordyceps and athletes and improving blood flow. There may be some level of oxygenation that happens with cordyceps too. So, cordyceps, reishi mushroom, I think the Lion’s mane for the brain and for the nerves would be beneficial, the ChlorOxygen for any of the shortness of breath along with the fatigue, rest, I mean just getting good quality sleep, making sure you got to do whatever you can to get good quality sleep. So, all the same sleep hygiene habits we’ve talked about for a decade together apply in regards to candling down at night if you need some passion flower. Even melatonin, there’s some really cool studies on melatonin. We know, it’s a very powerful antioxidant and we are seeing higher doses of melatonin be beneficial. So, in general, somewhere around 5 milligrams but there are some papers going wat up 30 – 40 – 50 milligrams and beyond. I don’t know a ton about the high dose so I’ll just tell you that the regular dose standard dosing is better than nothing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It was that melatonin?
Evan Brand: Melatonin. Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Usually, it’s like the higher dose is like 10 milligrams and that’s gonna help with the oxygenation and then 30 – 500 milligrams for the arginine that’s to really increase the oxygenation.
Evan Brand: Yeah. The arginine for like nitric oxide production. Beet powder, you know, beet powder would be good too. So, anything you could do to create some vasodilation is gonna be smart.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Anything else you wanna add, Evan?
Evan Brand: I think that’s it. If you need help, reach out, get tested, hopefully you get back on the full mend here so, keep, keep rolling. You’re doing a great job and hope everybody is doing well and we’ll be in touch next week. If you need help clinically, please reach out. You can reach out to Dr. J at justinhealth.com or me, Evan Brand, at evanbrand.com. We’re happy to help you guys. Keep your head up. keep moving forward.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think the big thing out of the gates is to make sure you have time to sleep, rest. Don’t overdo it. Just know your body still needs more time even when you, when you’ve gotten through the whole thing to recover. Don’t overdo it. That’s really important. Keep the foundational nutrients dialed in so that would be like zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, you know, you can keep those things in there. You may not have to use them at such a high level that you did with the infection but keep some of those nutrients. Don’t go from something to nothing. Keep something in there the whole time, find a medicinal mushroom that you like, find an adaptogen that you like. Maybe keep a little bit of ginger tea going. Something that has some antiviral support and um, you know, try to get a little bit of movement but if it’s making you feel winded then just try to do just enough where you can feel like you’re doing something but not where it’s overly taxing you. I think it’s really important to kind of meet that right in the middle.
Evan Brand: Last thing, two last things, a low histamine diet is generally pretty helpful because there are a lot of issues with mast cell activation being triggered from this. So, a lower histamine diet, fresh meat, and no leftovers is very important. And then, histamine support. I’ve got a product called histamine support but essentially it’s quercetin plus some other nutrients so anything, you can do to stabilize your mast cells that’s gonna be helpful because muscle activation can cause fatigue, meaning, after the viral issue was over, the immune system can sort of have PTSD for lack of a better terminology and the immune system will go into this crazy state where it will shut you down so that fatigue trying to rebuild that energy back up is re-regulating the immune system so like the quercetin, other mast cell stabilizers are very helpful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Love it. Love it. Makes total sense and again not everyone’s gonna have that issue but you know, it’s kind of good to know if you fit into that camp. Those are a couple of strategies out of the gates. Anything else, Evan?
Evan Brand: No, that’s it. Take it easy. If people need help, reach out justinhealth.com and evanbrand.com will be available.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’re here to help you guys. I’ll probably be back later on today here. So, keep a lookout, comments down below. Let us know your thoughts on the topic, we appreciate a review. We appreciate shares to friends and family. Really helps us get the word out. You guys have a phenomenal day. We’ll talk soon.
Evan Brand: Take it easy. Bye-bye
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye you all.
The Nuts and Bolts of Your Mitochondria – How to Enhance Mitochondrial Function | Podcast #349
Have you ever thought about what powers are inside your body? In this video, Dr. J and Evan talk about mitochondria and how to boost them.
When we talk about your body’s powers, the easy answer is nutrients, of course! Our body transforms those nutrients into energy, and it’s that energy that boosts the cells in our body. All types of cells have small generators called mitochondria that, in many ways, are their sources for life. Mitochondria are the only part of the cell where our basic life requirements — food and air — are combined to make energy in a process known as the Krebs cycle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:30: The role of creatine in mitochondria
6:34: Energy pathways
14:47: Cell Danger Response
16:07: Citric Acid Cycle
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mitochondrial function, your mitochondria, little the powerhouses in your cell and they help generate ATP which is the cellular currency of energy so to speak. And we’re going to talk about natural ways to improve mitochondrial function, Evan, and how we doing today, man.
Evan Brand: Doing really well. I think first, let’s dive into some of the big assaults that we have as a modern society on mitochondria. And that could be anything from viruses, bacteria, parasites, gut infections, pesticides, herbicides, heavy metals, plastics, phthalate’s, the BPA, the BPS, flame retardants, nonstick chemicals, car exhaust, air pollution. That I miss any I mean.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like you hit a lot of I would say being sedentary. There’s a lot of mitochondria in your muscles. And if you don’t do enough, you’ll put enough force to those muscles, they will atrophy. And so just not doing enough about creating enough stimulus on your body. That could definitely we can and decrease your mitochondria in your muscles. So, I would say, sedentary and in active resistance through your muscles.
Evan Brand: OK, OK that’s a good point. That’s a good point. So, you’re saying that, like, just in general, you have to have some level of physical stimulation physical activity to keep the mitochondria working. I guess it’s kind of like an old car that you’ve sat there…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All your muscles at least. Yeah, ’cause if you decrease, you know your muscle levels via just atrophy due to lack of use. Yeah, your muscles will shrink absolutely and that’s your mitochondria will shrink for.
Evan Brand: Sure, what about creatine? Do you know anything about the role of creatine in mitochondria? ’cause I know when I’m taking creatine, I just I feel stronger? Obviously, there’s creatine’s used a lot in like bodybuilding world, but there’s gotta be a mitochondrial mechanism there because I’ll tell you I feel like. I can lift, you know, at least a good 1020 pounds heavier on particular exercises with creatine in my system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, me crazy definitely has an effect on growth hormone and improving growth hormone stuff that will help with muscle. Creatine is like instant energy for the muscle. So, it’s it’s there. It’s ready to be used right away in that first 10 seconds or five, five to 10 seconds of muscle use or like explosion movement through that muscle. So, that definitely plays a role in muscle. I’m not sure how it plugs in 100%. I see ’cause really you know with ATP right in the mitochondrial function? If you look inside the mitochondria you have glycolysis and then you have the electron transport chain. Or I’m sorry, you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle and that plugs into the electron transport chain. So, glycolysis that’s going to be utilizing the carbohydrate in the muscle right glycogen in the muscle. Fast immediate source. I think creating plugs into that top part. And then you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle, where B vitamins, magnesium. All these different things kind of plug into that and with that. With the citric acid or Kreb cycle, that didn’t mean the same thing. Essentially, they’re grabbing hydrogens, right? So, there it’s it’s a reducing agent, so it’s just grabbing reproduce. Reduction is a gain in electrons and so you have NAD goes around. Then it grabs NADH so you get 3 NADH and I think 1FADH2 so you have FADH. And it grabs another hydrogen and that becomes FADH2, and so it’s grabbing all these hydrogens. And then it’s essentially bringing those hydrogens downstream into the electron transport. Jane and Beta fatty acid oxidation there and so yeah, I think you generate was at 36 to 39 ATP through the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain.
Evan Brand: Unless you’re in like chronic fatigue stayed, this cell danger response, and I think you’re spitting out something low like 2 maybe 3 ATP. I’ve read about this cell danger response. They just call it HDR in the literature, but it talks about how. The cell danger response, could be initiated by trauma or a car wreck or even mold exposure or tick-borne illnesses, or viruses. There’s a lot of you know, Epstein Barr. You’ll see the link between like mono and chronic fatigue. It said that these people are in this state of just a low power output, or even if you have the nutrients, you’re just not generating the ATP with some I don’t know if it was Caitlyn or somebody that you and I had looked into where there was a talk on this about. How the w the the ATP was literally in the single digits. The low single-digit output in some of these states. So, the message here is that for people that have chronic fatigue, you got to realize there is a mitochondrial component to this. Why don’t we talk about testing a little bit? The main thing that you and I are going to look at is going to be the organic acids. I know there are some other tests out there. I’ll admit I’ve had clients send them to me such as the mito swab. I’ve not run the model swab. Personally, I don’t know enough about it to speak on it much, but I’ll just say that it does exist. I believe it is a a mouth swab and it’s probably looking at just a couple generic markers in the saliva. But we like to use the organic acids test because, as you mentioned, there’s the Krebs cycle metabolites on there. We can look into the supinate or what some people call succinic acid. You’ve got the malic acid. You’ve got fumarate. There are other markers on there, and we we see when people have talks and exposure. Like I said in the beginning, the heavy metals, the mold, the pesticides will see those. Mitochondrial markers go up. And the higher the numbers go, generally, the more tired someone is because that indicates more damage to that Krebs cycle. So, the oh is huge, and then obviously we’ll look at stool too. Now the stool test you don’t measure like the stool tests we’re running. You’re not measuring mitochondrial function, but I look at it in a roundabout way. Meaning if you have all these gut infections producing toxins that could be damaging mitochondria as well, so we know that when we clear the gut out, we see the mitochondrial function improve.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yep 110%. I want to just put something on screens. People can see it here I guess is really helpful.
Evan Brand: Have you seen or heard about that my to swab before? Have you seen anybody send you those?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have, I’ve ran up. Fulham, it’s kind of a binary test. It gives you a result my the issue I have it’s not a lot of actionable information. It’s like OK, you know there’s some issues there, but then now what’s, what’s the remedy that you’re going to plug in from a diet lifestyle supplement? Toxin reduction execution right? What’s the next step on it? So that’s the problem with some. Of those tests, I always. Look and I always ask well what’s the corrective action based on the test showing uses a concern.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense.
Evan Brand: That’s the problem with a lot of them like I’ve seen a lot of these stool testing companies. Same thing there’s like so much data. Well, this percent of this bacteria and this percent of that. It’s like, what do I do with that? Is that an infection? Is that not an infection? So you and I’ve seen the same problem in other categories of health tests do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I want to show a couple things on screen here? Just so it’s crystal. Where the mitochondria is and how all these different energy pathways plug in, I think it’s important I’m going to pull it up here on screen in just a second so people can see it.
Evan Brand: Yeah, people listening on audio, they’re going to be lost. So just look up Doctor Justin YouTube page and you’ll be able to view some of this stuff. Some stuff, like mitochondria, gets a bit geeky. The the main thing here is toxins are a big factor in damaging this cycle and you gotta get toxins out. Reduce exposure where you can and we can run actually chemical test on your current too so we could talk about that in a minute.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, and so if you look here right. Do you have the mitochondria right here. Some middle part, the mitochondri. The outer part is the cytosol. So, from what I understand, like creatine is going to plug more into the cytosol and glycolysis, OK, but then you’re going to see you get about two ATP which is adenosine triphosphate. And this gets broken down into ADP and you get energy right? And so, you have glycolysis which generates a little bit of ATP 2. And creatine to plug more on the outside then that goes into your mitochondria. Now you have the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain electron transport chains part of also the beta fatty acid oxidation. That’s how you burn fat for fuel. OK, so Krebs cycle that churns around twice, and essentially what you’re doing is you’re gathering NAD and FADH2. NAD&FADH are grabbing hydrogen so and a design to grab a hydrogen making NAD. HFADH is going to grab a hydrogen, making FADH2, so I think you’re going to grab it’s like two or three. NADH is, and then one FADH2. And all those hydrogens then go into the electron transport chain here and this is where you generate most of your ATP. And again, what comes out, oxygen comes and this is why, if you’re like anemic right? And you’re not carrying oxygen. Well, that’s why you’re going to get tired and this is going to have an effect on your thyroid and your adrenals because the mitochondria is important for energy at all levels. And so if we have anemic issues or were inflamed because inflammation is going to make it harder to carry oxygen all. And also nutrition, because this electron transport chain, when we run the organic acid test, we can look at citrate, malate, fumarate, succinate. These are important metabolic essentially inputs into the Krebs cycle that correlate with certain nutrients like amino acids, alpha-lipoic acid, magnesium B vitamins, and so we can get a window on how this. Krebs Cycle was functioning based on the organic acid testing at some of those compounds and then all sister connotate citrate, right? These are really important, and then electron transport chain we can get a window into things like carnitine and Co Q10 ’cause they also play a major role in the electron transport chain. So we get a good window with how the mitochondrial function functioning by looking at the B vitamins and looking at a lot of these nutrients and so essentially things that can impair this. As you mentioned, pesticides. Heavy metals, mold toxins, antibiotics, and all these things have a negative impact. But that’s kind of how things look, so we have. Glycolysis is the first part that then goes into the mitochondria, and then we have Krebs cycle and electron transport chains. These are the big three. If you can kind of zoom out and see how it looks and how it makes sense. That should hopefully make more sense, so on that front. Any question that, Evan?
Evan Brand: Well people listening to that. They’re going to be like wow, this sounds like a really crazy rare problem, right? This must be just rare. This must be like a one in million case and I would say. Not going to say 99. I would say 90% of the people we work with. I see some level of mitochondrial dysfunction or damage either on the chemical profile test, so that’s something I alluded to earlier. We can run chemicals so we can look at gasoline. We can look at xylene. We can look at phthalates, all sorts of organophosphates. 24D is a major herbicide. I still see people at Lowe’s and Home Depot in the Garden Isle buying grass seed. That’s called weed and feed, weed and feed is a grass seed mixed with three different types of herbicides. It’s 24D, I believe it’s dicamba and glyphosate. Wait, I could have mixed one of those up, but either way, it’s three different chemicals, very toxic substances mixed with grass seed, and that’s like people just buy it and they don’t think anything of the term weed and feed. That means you’re going to be killing all the good stuff in your soil and poisoning yourself at the same time. It’s just not smart. So this mitochondrial thing. My point was, this is not rare, like when you show that image and people see that like. Oh no, that’s not happening to me. It’s like it happens every day, all day. I had mitochondrial damage, my latest test shows our mitochondria are much, much better, but I had significant mitochondrial damage from my mold exposure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting, I want to highlight one thing here so you can see creatine does primarily exist here in the cytosol, right? So if we zoom out, right cytosol is outside of the mitochondria, right? Right glucose, pyruvate here, so just so you guys can highlight here, creatine does go from the cytosol and it can go into the mitochondria. So, we did talk about creatine. It does primarily happen more in the cytosol outside the mitochondria, and it can go in via this. Mi-CRT kind of transport. Compound, so yeah, so creatine is a compound that we talked about that goes outside but can also go inside the mitochondria. To yeah Doctor Neil Nathan.
Evan Brand: That’s awesome! Doctor Neil Nathan did a huge thing for 155-page slide show that people can look up just called the Cell Danger Response. It’s very complex stuff. There’s going to be maybe a few geeky on that. People want to dive into that, but for your average person there’s not much takeaways built into that. But if you want to look into more of like the biochemistry side of it, then then you could look at it. But I think the big summary is it’s all. It’s all the Chemicals, and this is a relatively new problem I mean we face now over 80,000 chemicals are in the environment. Depending on what number you read, there’s only a small amount of those that are even tested. You’ll see stuff in Europe like oh Europe has banned these chemicals and makeup and personal care products, but the US was very far behind. And if you look at the environmental working group, they have a water testing report. You can look at and you can plug in your zip code. I mean just the amount of trihalomethanes’s pesticide herbicide residue pharmaceutical drugs that are in the municipal tap supply in your city are massive and you’re getting hit with this all the time. If you go to a restaurant and you eat rice, what do you think they make that rice with? They make it with tap water so you’re getting exposed to it that way too, which is why if I go out to eat, I don’t really do rice that often anyway. But if I do it, It’s going to be at home with good, clean filtered water.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. Anything else you want to say on that, so obviously get the toxin exposure. Super important hydration obviously really important to anything else you want to say on that?
Evan Brand: Yeah, you hit you hit the the Co Q10. You mentioned some of the markers we’re going to look at on the oak test, so we will use those. We have a formula. I believe you’ve got 1/2 mines called my to boost. It’s essentially like a multi for the mitochondria with all the Co Q10, ribose, carnitine B vitamins. So, when we see mitochondrial dysfunction, we can supplement that and we tell people this is a band-aid for your mitochondria. This is not some of it is the root cause, right? If you just are simply low and depleted in Co Q10, one could argue supplementing Co Q 10 is the root cause, but in reality it was usually. Oh here we go. Let me see if I can share this slide with you. Mainly it was the the toxins that led to this so let. Me share my screen really quick.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there is going to be because we do make Co Q10 on our own via the mevalonic acid pathway. And of course, as you get older, just like stomach acid, you’re gonna make less of it and so there there could just be a depletion based on age as well.
Evan Brand: Does that show up at all on your side? The video is that screen share show.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Try again.
There’s like a little bell there. Let me let me pop it up again. How about that, yes? Oh yeah, let me let.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Me highlight it, go ahead.
Evan Brand: Yeah, there we go. So, this is this is kind of what I was alluding to, and many many other people may have different ways to look at this, but this is from Neil Nathan. He had a great paper on this cell danger response and it just shows at the top here. Basically, everything I already mentioned like a flame. Heavy metals, pesticides, infection, so that would include viral issues as well. Mass cells, NK killer cells, cytokines, the microbiome. All these issues here are what really breaks this role. You know, the one of these is the final straw that breaks the camel’s back and then you end up in this what’s called the cell danger response phase. And then that’s where you get the issues with the mitochondria down regular. So there’s more in that. Like I said, it’s 155 pages. It’s like you got to be, you got to be, you know, have your bulletproof coffee before you look through that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, that makes a lot of sense, so your kind of really focusing on the toxicity and how that negatively impacts it. I want to just kind of tie in the dietary component. Why is food so important to enhancing the mitochondria? Let me let me break that down for a second here. This is important. OK, so this is really important. We talked about like Kreb cycle right? And so like this is our zoom out right? What’s happening here? We have glycolysis, Krebs cycle, electron transport chain outside of the mitochondria with the cytosol inside. Now check this out. This is a good one. This is from textbook of functional medicine, so. We have fats, carbs and proteins. These are our primary nutrients where everything comes from right. Fast could be coconut oil, grass fed butter could be fats from. Uhm, grass fed meat right? Our carbs can be vegetables, fruit, starch and our proteins could be protein powder or it could be animal protein, right? All of these essentially shuttled downstream. Fats get carried into the mitochondria via carnitine, so if you go into any biochemistry textbook, it’s called the carnitine. Shuttle right. Every medical doctor, doctorate level person would studied this at a graduate level. I studied as well now in the textbook of I think that guidance Physiology, but there’s another textbook of biochemistry that’s common at the graduate level. You know what the rate limiting amino acids to make carnitine are. It’s methionine and lysine and so really important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Guess what some of the rate limiting amino acids are in a vegetarian diet.
Evan Brand: Oh yeah, well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Medallion Leisinger actually very deficient in vegetarian diets, and so this whole process of a carnitine shuttle here that helps bring carnitine converts it into acetyl Co A. So then the actual it can get inside the mitochondria. And run through the citric acid cycle again. That’s the same thing as Krebs Cycle. They have multiple names. In medicine for the same thing, it’s just meant to confuse people. So citric acid cycle or the Krebs cycle. This is how we get fat inside the mitochondria is via carnitine. So very important, right so if we zoom out. Here, we have energy out here, fat. We get it inside via the carnitine shuttle. Super important there and then you see carbs. Right glucose, other sugars. We go pyruvate to lactate and we need guess what B vitamin? So if we’re putting in lots and lots of refined processed sugar and we’re insulin resistant, we can actually deplete B vitamins. And we can actually deplete a lot of magnesium and other nutrients downstream. So, this is really important. Too much carbs, too much sugar, especially if you’re insulin resistance and you’re putting on weight due to too much carbs. That’s going to be a problem, and you’re going to deplete nutrients now. Then we have proteins, amino acids. These all get converted downstream. We also need B itamin to support that now the difference is if you’re eating high quality protein. Guess what? You’re getting good quality B vitamins in that. Protein if you’re doing a lot of refined processed sugar, guess what? You’re not getting vitamins and nutrients with it. So carbohydrates, it’s possible to eat a lot of empty carbs that are actually going to deplete your nutrient levels. Protein not as much if it’s grass fed and organic right now, really, you’re taking all these nutrients, fats, carbs and proteins. You’re converting them into acetyl Co A. OK, you’re converting it to acetyl Co A and again we spit off beta-hydroxybutyrate what’s that? That’s a ketone now this is important. If we keep our carbs in check we can use ketones for fuel, so this is a really important fuel source or people that are going to be lower carb because we’re going to be more keto adapted. We’re going to be able to use that and then you can see here that acetyl Co A. Runs around the Krebs cycle. Twice we go 2 turns. Guess what, we need cysteine amino acid iron really important. So if you’re a female you have heavy bleeding your estrogen dominant you heavy bleeding that’s in effect energy magnesium manganese B vitamins lipoic acid magnesium B vitamins B vitamins tyrosine phenylalanine aspartate, glycine, histidine, arginine, proline. Glycine, valine methionine, right? These are all amino acids over here. So, we need amino acids to run these systems. We need B vitamins. We need magnesium and then of course, once we pump these things around, here’s our NADH and then our FADH should be there somewhere as well. So here NADH, it may not. They may just be oversimplifying it not showing it. But we have NADH here. We should have an FADH2 coming in. This all goes right into. Guess what? This is the electron transport chain and base. Yeah, fatty acid oxidation right there, right? This is now now hydroxymethyl Glutarate. This is Co Q10. This is where Co Q10 comes in and this is where it runs through the electron transport chain and burning fat for fuel and we generate our 36 to 38 ATP from all these three sources 1-2 and three and so that’s what’s happening in your mitochondria. So just to kind of highlight macro nutrients, fats, protein, carbs, very important two, don’t junk it up with all the toxins that you mentioned. And then of course, making sure we. Can breakdown protein. Make sure we’re getting enough iron making. Sure, we’re not. Anemic right? All of those things kind of flow into allowing all these pathways to to work optimally.
Evan Brand: That’s amazing, I love the breakdown to that. The visual super helpful. So just to clarify a little bit. So for women out there, you’re saying that if having heavy ministration, they have low iron. It’s not just the the low iron that we assume is creating like a low oxygenation, you’re you’re showing here. The low iron is literally creating a mitochondrial deficit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. You’re not getting the oxygen in right? If we go back to here, right? Mitochondria, what do we need to get into the mitochondria? Oxygen, what’s one of the big carrying capacities for oxygen in the body? Hemoglobin and then iron affects hemoglobin in red blood cells, right? Hemoglobin is part of the red blood cell carrying capacity and we need the iron to really keep the hemoglobin levels up so we can carry enough oxygen.
Evan Brand: Wow, so there’s why you’re tired.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Could be. Yet, one and then of course all of the other nutrients play a role. Not enough of the amino acids. The only issue with this graph, any biochemists that are looking on? I think the only thing that’s missing is really the FADH2, so it should. So, all these things, they’re just reducing compounds. Really, the whole goal of this Kreb cycle to run is just grabbing hydrogens. And then once we grab these hydrogens, Uhm, these things get cleaved off, and then it generates ATP. What’s happening there? And all these things like hydroxymethyl iterate. These are right. These are all driven through Co, Q10, right? We need Co Q10 to make that happen.
Evan Brand: Now for people like supplementing ketones, if you go back up to the top there, you can basically kind of inject your own spark plug into the cycle, I guess right? If you’re taking exogenous ketones, what is that doing in relationship to this whole cycle?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s giving you more beta hydroxybutyrate. The problem is your body is going to primarily want to use that when insulin levels are lower, so you have to keep your insulin levels and check. If not, you’re not setting your Physiology up to want to burn that. If you’re probably, gonna pee it out more like more than likely versus burn it. Cause typically, your body has an enzyme called hormone sensitive light pace where it wants to break down fat and convert more of these ketones. Hormone-sensitive light base is inverse with insulin. So hire your hormone-sensitive light pace is you need lower insulin to make that happen.
Evan Brand: So the lady who eats the donut and then goes to the store and buys her exogenous ketones, she’s wasting her.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probably not as good. There may be some mild benefits that you get cognitively just ’cause your brain has some additional fuel to run on. If people brains are insulin resistant, they may have a lot of sugar from that doughnut, but the cells in their brain maybe so numb. To it that they may not be able to access it so some ketones could be helpful, but in the end, you want to fix the insulin resistance if you’re going to do it. Try doing both. Don’t just do the ketones. Try to do both that you can.
Evan Brand: And you can make your own ketones too. For free.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah, that’s how you’re doing that you keep in your insulin in check. And you’re going to start. Making your own. 100%.
Evan Brand: Yeah, cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool, that was awesome. Very cool guys. I hope you guys enjoyed today’s podcast. We’re trying to be a little bit more visual; you know. Go into some hard hard science Y stuff, but you know just kind of zoom out. Like what’s the take home right? The take home is don’t put junkie toxins and that screw up your mitochondria right? Antibiotics, I mean antibiotics? You know if if you have an acute infection that’s not resolving, you know you gotta do what you gotta do, right? You have an acute pneumonia. You gotta do what you gotta do. Talk to your doctor about it. Just don’t go to antibiotics all the time as your first line defense. Try to do some. More natural things to fix it #2 you know, try to be aware of mold in your environment. Make sure you’re not. Getting exposed to pesticides. Chemicals heavy metals. Make sure you’re doing your best to hydrate right. We need water to make this whole thing work too. I would say after that make sure you have your macronutrient style, then good quality protein fats and carbohydrates. Organic sources dial in your carbs so you’re not insulin resistant and make sure your inflammation is good. Inflammation helps with oxygenation and blood flow. Then after that we can look at using supplemental nutrients in my line and Evans line we have mito supports products mine is mito synergy. Evans is my toe. Boots will put links down below. Those products have a lot of these nutrients. It’s going to have the ribose to creatine the carnitine, the B vitamin. Since it’s going to have the Co Q10, it’s going to have actually Kreb cycle intermediary compounds like fumarate malate, succinate. All those different nutrients or run those pathways better. Of course, that all sits on top of a solid diet. Don’t take supplements if you’re going to eat crap, eat really great and then say OK now I’m going to work on enhancing it. And again, we can run testing on organic. Message to look at some of these intermediary nutrients, like citrate to connotate succinate bloomer, a mallet we can actually test them, which is pretty cool.
Evan Brand: Yeah, the testing is the best part because you you know if you actually need it. I can tell you the average person has mitochondrial problem, so in general, could you just take this? I kind of call it a multi for the mitochondria. Could you just take that test? You know like a guess and check you could, but we like to see the data and obviously my biggest thing is looking for mold colonization. Candida overgrowth clostridia. Some of these gut infections and how that affects your brain chemistry too. So when you do the oh, you really are getting the best bang for your buck in terms of testing. Like if you could only do one test out there, I think the oh it would. Probably be the number one most.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Important 110%. Anything else you want to say?
Evan Brand: If people need help, they can reach out to you worldwide or me worldwide. Doctor J at justinhealthcom me Evan at evanbrand.com and we would love to chat with you about your symptoms, your goals and we’ll tell you for your good fit for care, so please feel free to reach out. Look forward to helping you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Foot and get adjusted. Help calm here and then you guys have any questions, comments or concerns. Put him down below. Let us know. Kind of what you’re doing. What’s working that really helps us out as well. Very cool. Alright guys, well you guys have a phenomenal day here and we’ll. Be in touch. Take care of y’all.
Evan Brand: Sounds good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright Bye bye.
Genova NutrEval FMV
How Your Diet And Blood Sugar Can Weaken Your Adrenals | Podcast #340
Changes in blood sugar levels may be a sign and symptom of adrenal fatigue. In the early phase of adrenal fatigue, you can see hyperglycemia (high blood sugar) and, in an advanced phase of adrenal fatigue, hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) is the usual presentation.
The thing is, you may not notice a problem with your blood sugar levels, but that doesn’t mean it’s terrific. It is essential to monitor and know the symptoms of having a diet full of food content that send your blood glucose on a roller coaster ride of high and low levels. These glucose level swings can result in damage to your blood vessels, raising your cholesterol, and put you at risk for heart disease.
Dr. J and Evan recommend having yourself tested (not guess) and checking the food you include in your food template because they can be the reason for your chronic issues for so long.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:47 Adrenal Blood Sugar Physiology
9:26 Intermittent Fasting, Carnivore / Keto Diets
18:45 How Intermittent Fasting Helps
24:43 Hypoglycemia and Adrenal Stress
31:08 How Mold Affects Adrenals
35:00 An App that Helps Monitor Your Diet
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we have an awesome podcast topic on the queue here, we’re going to be chatting about how your blood sugar can weaken and negatively impact your adrenal glands, we’re going to be talking about blood sugar, how it affects your immune system, how it makes you either strong or weak, we’ll be talking about nutrient supplement changes that you can do to help with that, as well as diet and lifestyle changes. So I’m excited to dive into this topic. This is a relevant topic that we are applying and seeing with our patients every day, especially ones that have adrenal issues, or adrenal and cortisol imbalances. So really excited to chat about this. And what’s happened today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, not too much. Let’s dive right in. So let’s set the stage for people. This is a conversation that maybe didn’t happen. Historically, we didn’t have the chronic 99% of the time, we’re stressed and 1% of the time we take a vacation, we didn’t have that kind of lifestyle historically. And so I think now, you’re kind of talking about this with me, before we hit record, the average person is just so toxic, they’re so stressed. They’re sleep deprived. They’re on stimulants like caffeine, and they’re having these spikes and crashes all throughout the day, pretty much everyone is on both the stress rollercoaster. But they’re also on this blood sugar rollercoaster too. And that really affects the adrenals over time. So that’s where I want to set the stage with people is that we’re in a society that’s doing quick fixes. When we feel a blood sugar crash, we go when we eat the organic cookie. Now it’s an organic cookie instead of an Oreo, or it’s a gluten free cookie instead of an Oreo, but it’s still a cookie, and then you end up crashing again. So I want to set the stage of even though you could be doing paleo or similar diet, a lot of people are still having issues of blood sugar regulation, and we think adrenal is is is one big part of it, which is then connected to the gut. So really, we could make this thing like a three hour episode, but we’re going to try to condense it to half an hour.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So let’s kind of do like an adrenal blood sugar kind of one on one physiology review for people just kind of coming into this. So your adrenal glands produce a hormone called cortisol, right, which is a glucocorticosteroid. Big word right, the first half of that word is glucose, meaning it helps pertain to blood sugar and energy. And so the more your blood sugar debates goes up and down, the more hormones have to be produced to buffer the highs and lows. So the more we keep our hormones snaking along, or we keep our blood sugar at let’s say in this example snaking along or stress snaking along throughout the day without big up and down spikes. Our hormones are called to the rescue far less. So. If I eat, let’s say one, I’m not eating at all. Let’s say I’m fasting, right and I’m not really good at being fat adapted, your blood sugar is going to drop and when your blood sugar drops, that creates a stress response. The first thing that happens on this low blood sugar drop is going to be a spike of epinephrine or adrenaline. Right? So epinephrine or adrenaline is like the key catalyst to wake up and call cortisol. So you get this epinephrine or adrenaline or catecholamines surge again, they are all the same thing. You have epinephrine, norepinephrine, you have adrenaline, you have noradrenaline, you have catecholamines. They’re all the exact same thing, same name. They’re just meant to confuse people. So just kind of put that out there. If I use these words, they’re 100% interchangeable, okay. So you’re going to have this surge and adrenaline. And that’s going to bring up your blood sugar when it brings that blood sugar up. This is when you may feel anxious. heart palpitations, this is May when you get a little bit dizzy, nervous, sleepless, irritable, right, sweating, you know. So when you start to have when you’re on those blood sugar rollercoaster, when this blood sugar drops and starts to come back up, you may have symptoms that make you not feel that well. And so then, of course, what comes up after that adrenaline surge is then cortisol is now going to help bring it up the rest of the way. So think of adrenaline is the it’s the, it’s the first responder, right. It’s the person on the operator line, getting the police ready to come to your home and then the police to come 1020 minutes late, that’s cortisol. Okay, they come a little bit later to the show. And so that’s important. So when you understand your physiology, that’s, that’s good. The next component is when your blood sugar goes back up on the high side, that’s where you make a whole bunch of insulin. So insulin can make you feel tired, it can make you feel fatigued. Insulin activates a lot of lipo Genesis, that’s fat storing lipo, meaning fat Genesis, creating and so when you start to have when you’re on a blood sugar roller coaster of high to low blood sugar, okay, this creates this high level of insulin, a lot of label Genesis that creates fatigue. And then of course, when you have a high level of insulin that brings your blood sugar back down, because insulin is opening up the cells trying to get blood sugar into the cells to either burn it or store it. And if you’re not active, and your cells are already full of glycogen, and you’re not actively doing something like walking or running or lifting guess what your body then shunts and partitions that fuel into the storing phase. So if you’re active, great, you’ll burn it. If you have muscles that have glycogen storage, you’ll convert it to glycogen which is glucose. Storage sugar storage. And if those two capacities are tapped, then we start going to fat storage starts going more to life with Genesis. So we’re on this blood sugar rollercoaster. So high blood sugar up high blood sugar up, a lot of insulin drops it down, right, then we have this, this really high drop high to low drop, this then stimulates a lot of adrenaline, catecholamines and then cortisol in the app, this is called reactive hypoglycemia. And then the other type of glycemia issue that we’re going to see is going to be usually fasting too much not eating enough low calorie diets, skipping meals, that’s more like this, that’s your blood sugars like this. And it just starts to drop into this hypo category, you know, maybe below 75. One goes up first. That’s the reactive, it’s reacting going high and then dropping, that’s reactive hypoglycemia, that’s typically going to happen due to poor diet, too much sugar, too much carbs, not enough protein on a fat. And then we have just general run of the mill hypoglycemia, usually from poor meal timing, skipping meals, too much fasting, typically low calorie dining. And again, if you’re doing a lot of intermittent fasting, but you’re low calorie in general, throughout the day, that can easily drive low blood sugar too.
Evan Brand: Wow, well said so the average American, they’re experiencing more reactive hypoglycemia because they’re on sodas, they’re on the Milky Way bar and hiding in their desk drawer at lunch, the person listening to us who’s hopefully relatively dialed in, they’re going to just be more in the standard, we’ve just called to us maybe a standard hypoglycemia situation. And then how do the adrenal is play into that? Because what you’re saying is happening is that, let’s say, and this happened to me, I can tell you firsthand what happened. But what kind of open it up. So intermittent fasting, you’re saying that could could drive that and you’re saying there, you’re kind of hinting at the fact that maybe the adrenals are too weak to help you’re seeing the adrenaline can be released, and it’ll crank it up. But you’re saying, Okay, I got like a recording, stop and start. So just making sure we’re good. Okay. So you’re saying that, in a normal situation, the hypoglycemia can start to happen, adrenaline should come up, kind of bump you up, give you the little nitrus booster, but you then you need cortisol to push you to the finish line. But you’re saying in the case of adrenal stress, the cortisol may not be able to get you up to the right amount. And that’s how an intermittent fasting situation could be not good for you. Is that right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So then if you don’t have good adrenaline output, or catecholamine, output, like so how do we know that as we look at organic acids, if we see imbalances and vandal Amanda later home of anolyte, these are amino acids that are precursors for dopamine and adrenaline. And again, dopamine is a precursor to adrenaline. So when you’re constantly stimulating adrenaline, you’re actually pulling dopamine down. And dopamine is really important for satisfaction, mood focus, right? So if you’re chronically stimulating adrenaline, you’re going to have adrenaline issues, you’re going to have dopamine issues that can create a whole bunch of problems. We’re going to know that because we’re going to see an organic acid test showing a lot of imbalances in those catecholamines. And if our blood sugar, if we have very low cortisol, we run a good quality Dutch test we see chronically low free and total cortisol, it’s going to be hard for our body to bring that blood sugar back up and we can kind of stay a little bit more hypo. And that can cause that irritability, that faintness, that fatigue, cognitive issues, mood issues, brain fog, it can create all those problems. So if we don’t have good when people talk about adrenal is people mostly just think about cortisol. When it comes to adrenal, they don’t think about the adrenaline catecholamine dopamine connection. And so when we talk about adrenals, we have to really look at the outer part of the adrenals. That’s the cortex. That’s where cortisol lives, that’s where aldosterone lands because we’ll talk about it in a minute. aldosterone plays a big role with minerals and holding on to minerals. And if our minerals go low, like we see in pots, right, which is a postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome that has to do with minerals being low sodium chloride, potassium, right, that can create a lot of symptoms similar to hypoglycemia. And so we have to look at the the cortisol component, but also the adrenaline the adrenaline tends to happen more in the medulla medulla M for more middle part of the adrenal gland. So it’s good to look at both and that’s where having a high quality adrenal test that looks at free and total cortisol, as well as an adrenaline, dopamine via the organic acids to look at what’s happening with the catecholamines and neurotransmitters.
Evan Brand: So how would this work? Let’s say if you weren’t doing intermittent fasting, let’s say you switched off of that maybe you were having these hypoglycemia episodes, the adrenals. were too weak to give you the cortisol output you wanted. So instead of intermittent fasting now you’re just doing like a carnivore breakfast, maybe you’re going to do a grass fed steak or maybe you’re going to do some pastured eggs or some pastured bacon. Is that enough to pull you out of that? Are you going to need some support? Would you recommend we throw in like a little bit of honey, some blueberries, you know, maybe something else to pull you out of that spike like is meat is meat enough? I guess is the simple question.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what happens with proteins that you’re consuming is your body is going to be able to one, it’s going to be keto adapted. But again, not everyone’s keto adapted, you have to be metabolically flexible to be keto adapted, where you can actually take a lot of the fat, right, you have a glycerol on a free fatty acid, and you’re able to break that down, pull off some ketones and start burning more fat for fuel. A lot of people just can’t transition to that, because they’re very metabolically inflexible. And so protein and fats not going to be a viable source unless someone’s really dialed their diet in for two to four weeks, and really had that metabolic adaptation. Now, some people, their their insulin levels just dropped to low, and let’s say maybe below four or so or even below two on a fasting insulin test, they may need more carbohydrate. And, again, if they’ve been doing the diet for a month, and they’re in there, they’re having good proteins and good fats at every meal. And maybe their carbs are really low, we may want to add a little bit more starch in because sometimes they feel better doing that because it actually blunts the cortisol spike or the adrenaline spike that the body is trying to create to mobilize that glucose. So it’s like, we can add a little bit more carbs in via healthy, safe starch. And that blunt some of the cortisol and the adrenaline is being produced to mobilize that internally, some people, their insulin levels are really high. And by keeping the carbs super low, they’re bringing their insulin back into the sweet spot, and they’re actually good. And then when they add more carbs in, they actually feel worse, because their insulin is going out of balance, and they’re starting to get more into fat storage mode. So most people I find tend to be more on the insulin resistance side. So I always default to lower carbohydrate out of the gates, and then fine tune later once they kind of hit the wall. And you know, a good way that to see how you know, if you’re hitting the wall or not, is get to a place where you’ve been doing it for a month or two, make sure your body is pretty good at burning fat, right? So you’re eating good proteins, you’re eating good fats, that initial keto flu is over right, that first couple of weeks of getting fat adapted headaches, mood issues is over, then you can try adding a little bit more carbs in maybe at night. Have a sweet potato, a little bit of white potato, a little bit of a say starch, see if you feel better or not. If you sleep better, if you have more energy, if your workouts are better, recovery is good, that’s a good sign that that’s better for you if you don’t feel better. Or let’s say you’re you know, you’re very overweight, and you probably want to work on keeping the carbs in check longer, again, the benefit that you have with good fats and proteins, it’s hard to over eat when you’re eating good fats and proteins, because there’s good satiation signals to your brain that tell you to be full. That’s like peptide yy, adiponectin. coli cytokinin. There’s really good feedback regulations, people are like, well, it’s all about calories in calories out, it’s like, but not all calories, tell your brain that you’re full the same way. So you have to look at the the epistatic regulation of appetite, right and certain neuro peptides are going to be produced with certain foods, you’re not going to get that same stimulation, eating pizza eating Pringles drinking refined sugar, you’re not going to get it. And that’s why it’s so easy to overeat those foods, and you never really feel satiated, try eating you know, half a dozen eggs with you know, cooked in butter, it’s gonna be really hard to still be hungry afterwards. As long as you don’t eat things too fast, where people really go awry with proteins and fats is they eat things too fast, is about a 10 to 20 minute delay in those kind of chemicals telling you you’re full. And you really have to give your body that 10 to 20 minute buffer time. So eating slower, chewing your foods up really well, not overly drinking, when you consume those foods, giving yourself five or 10 minutes once you finish your meal before you get seconds. That plays a big role, because it’s really easy to overeat with these foods, when you don’t give it enough time.
Evan Brand: Yeah, look at the marketing of potato chip companies, veggie candy, just one, they know that you’re not going to get leptin and all these other beneficial compounds and tell your body your full. So the marketing companies know what they’re getting into, they know you’re going to eat a whole bag of chips, because you’re never going to get that signal that you’re satiated. And that’s where you’re going into trouble. So let’s go back to the adrenals for a minute. So you mentioned running a Dutch panel looking at low cortisol. So what you’re saying is if you’re going to see a flat panel, or maybe just maybe it’s not flat, maybe there is some sort of peak on the cortisol in the morning, but it’s very weak. So overall, you would just say there’s a low cortisol output, you’re saying those people are going to tolerate intermittent fasting less, those people are going to tolerate very low carbs less so they may need a little more bump while they get their adrenals back on board. Is that safe to say?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If their cortisol is really low? Yes, it just depends kind of where they’re coming from. Right? If they’re coming from being overweight, being more insulin resistance, being more tired, being more fatigued out of the gates, always in a default to lower carb. If they’re coming from already being at a reasonably healthy weight and being pretty active already. Then I’m going to default to adding a little bit more carbs and so it just depends upon where someone’s coming from. So it’s always good to look at someone’s Samantha type right? ectomorph endomorph mesomorph right. endomorphs like The linemen write in football. And again, this can be like any one, but they’re just have a larger, higher propensity to put on weight, write the message, or then they have the ectomorph. This is more of the natural kind of basketball player type, they’re just more taller and more leaner, hard to put on muscle, hard to gain weight. And then you kind of have a blend between an ectomorph and an endomorph, called a mesomorph. Think of that as the M for middle, right. And this is kind of more like your linebacker in football, right. And again, these are extreme examples, but helps to kind of tell the tell the story, right? Not everyone’s a 300 pound lineman, I get that, right. But people have this propensity to put on more weight. But a mesomorph, someone that’s kind of more in the middle, like they could be taller and leaner, but they also can be bigger as well, they’re kind of in between. So usually, people are in one of the three of these categories. And usually, if you’re more on the ectomorph side, you’re going to be able to tolerate carbs pretty well. So that you have to just kind of like you know, see kind of where, where you feel best. And there’s a lot of people out there like let’s just say let’s people on the diet side, I’ll just I’ll call Chris kresser out, right? Chris? kresser is a ectomorph. Right? suit. You know, Paul jammin a ectomorph. A lot of people out there that like recommend more carbs, more higher carbs, more whole food, carbs? And it’s like, well, of course, you’re going to recommend that because you’re an ectomorph, of course, right? So you have to look at the people that are recommending certain things and look at what somato type they are because certain somatic types are going to have a propensity to handle macronutrients differently than someone else. So it’s good to look at that as a general template. But in the end, you got to fine tune it, you got to look at it, my default way of looking at because of insulin resistance is being so prone, because refined and processed foods have been eaten ubiquitously, you know, over the last 20, if you look at the macronutrient trends over the last 20 or 30 years, right, its proteins gone down a little bit fats has actually gone down a little bit. And actually cards have gone up. So when you look at that general trend, we can just assume out of the gates that most people are going to have carbohydrate problems, not protein and fat problems. And if they do have protein in fat problems, it’s usually from junky trans fats and or junky omega six refined vegetable oils, not healthy animal fats.
Evan Brand: Yeah, very, very great points. And that’s important for people to listen, I mean, you’re hearing a clinician speak, you’re hearing the clinicians brain, because as you mentioned, if you get into some of these other people that may not be practicing clinically with people, they’re going to be able to give you a cookie cutter answer and you did not I was kind of probing you to give me some like buzz wordy, you know, like something I could post on Twitter type answer, but you gave me a clinicians answer. And I hope people appreciate that. Because there’s a lot of variants with this. And I know it’s frustrating, because when you listen to a podcast, you’re like, I just want to be told what to do how to do it. Give me the sparknotes? And your answer is there’s not really a sparknotes there are some categories, if you will, that we can put people into I’m definitely probably closer to ectomorph. And so I do better. Like if I do a grass fed steak and I throw some extra organic wild blueberries in with that for breakfast, I feel so much better with that extra little blueberry hit, as opposed to just the steak versus let’s say, my grandmother who had an high a one c score, she’s going to do much better with just the steak and she’s going to go but better lower carb overall.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So it’s good to know, I’m kind of more of a mesomorph I’m kind of in the middle. And I just I look at you know, the problems that we as society have as a whole, generally speaking, and I kind of just create my recommendations to have the largest bang for the buck regarding the average person. And then of course, when patients come in, then you kind of look at them, you kind of look at their height, their weight, you know, especially you see a lot of women, you know, in their 40s. I’m like, well, where were you in high school in college it regarding your weight? Oh, I was 80 pounds lighter. Okay, so we know there’s some metabolic damage there. If you put on 80 pounds since that time, right. So then, then it’s good to really make sure we we support them being better fat burners, I think the next step I wanted to hit would be intermittent fasting. So someone in the comments here will talk about this, they talked about omad, or one meal a day, I’m not a huge fan of omad. Now people can do it, if they’re wanted, they have pretty good adrenals their diets really good and they’re very metabolically flexible. Okay, with omad. It’s one meal a day. So you need all of the calories that you need in one day in one meal. So number one is you’re going to be eating a meal that’s like two to three times bigger than what your typical meal would be. Because if you need, let’s say, you know, I’m six to 2015 pounds, right? I need like 3000 calories a day, if I’m you know, relatively active, well, 3000 calories is a lot of food at one meal. Okay, it’s a lot of food. Because you need your your micronutrients, you need, you know, your amino acids, I need probably at least half a gram per pound of body weight minimum for protein. So I need at least let’s say 110 grams of protein, that’s a big meal. So one, you need really good digestion, you probably needed over an hour to sit down and actually eat that meal if you’re not going to be sick because that’s a lot of food to eat at one time. So you probably need an hour to eat it. You need really good digestion really good enzyme and acid secretion. You need an hour to sit down and be able to handle it and you probably can’t move much for an hour afterwards because the meal so big, it’s it’s the equivalent of a Thanksgiving Day dinner. Right? And so you got to be careful with that.
Evan Brand: I think let me just give you a little I’ll give you some numbers real quick just to show how hard what what you’re describing would be. So for example, I love bison. So if you were to do a which this is going to be your fattiest cut, if you could do a bison ribeye, a 10 ounce bison ribeye, you’re going to get roughly less than 500 calories, maybe like for something like 450 to 480. So if I just did it as 10 ounces. So I mean, God, let’s say you did 20 ounces, which would be very hard for me to do a 20 ounce bison ribeye, you know, you’d be maybe close to 900 calories.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and so you’d probably need at least you know, if for me, right, you’d probably want about 25 to a third of your calories coming from protein right around there. And so you’d probably want about that steak would probably have to be about 20 ish, maybe a little more ounces than that. That’s a lot to do at one time. And that’s not including the six to seven servings of vegetables that you may want to do with that as well.
Evan Brand: And then what Yeah, I was gonna say, and then what else are you going to do? Let’s say you did like a cup of broccoli, that’s like 40 calories.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So you need like literally eight cups of that or like, you know, 60 it’s becomes really hard.
Evan Brand: Yeah, cuz I see why you don’t recommend it. So so your overall, your overall messages, you think maybe two meals a day, you could get away with a one meal a day you think for this type of conversations can be really tough.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, two meals is good. Two meals, you can do it in the morning, I mean, you may want to have like a little bit of bone broth, or something very gentle on the liquid side. Again, if you’re just trying to do intermittent fasting, it’s easier to do one, I don’t recommend it every day. But it’s easier to do like, you know, keep your eating window between 12 and eight, or let’s say two and eight, I think it’s easier that way gives you enough time to have a meal at two o’clock, five o’clock, or let’s say to, let’s say two o’clock, six o’clock, and maybe a little snack before bed, if you’re still hungry, you want to fill in the gap, right? So it’s a little bit easier from a nutritional standpoint to get your needs met. Again, if you’re having a lot of hormonal issues, I don’t recommend doing a lot of fasting out of the gates. Think of fasting as a stressor, it’s a stressor on your body, just like exercise is a stressor. So imagine your personal trainer, someone’s like super unhealthy. They’re out of shape. And you’re like, hey, come to my CrossFit class tomorrow, I’m 100 pounds overweight, come come across it, it’s like well, you know, with their weight being where they’re at, and how inflamed they’re at, they’re gonna be like, literally in bed the next week, with sore joints sore back totally hurt. So you have to make a recommendation based on what’s best for them. So you may say, hey, let’s just do like a 10 minute walk tomorrow, right? So a 20 minute walk, let’s say a five minute walk after every meal, that may be a better recommendation, right? So think of like the Oh, Matt, or like a lot of this intermittent fasting. That’s the equivalent of jumping a very overweight, unhealthy person into CrossFit. It’s the equivalent, it’s still a stressor on the body. Now, if you’re healthy, guess what? It’s a stressor that you can adapt from and get up and get stronger. But if you’re not healthy, that stressor is going to break you. And so you kind of have to know that, hey, this is an application of stress. And the question becomes, does your physiology have the ability to adapt to that stress based on where you’re at now? And for most people that are that we see clinically? No, that’s not gonna be the case. Yeah, there’s always weather. Yep. I always weather under Should I rather undershoot it have that person feeling better, less or less tired? And kind of in kind of gauge up then overshoot and make them feel worse?
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. So this is the anti boot camp podcast. You see those boot camp signs? It’s like, they’ll just come in and they’ll just kick your ass on day one. I mean, they don’t care. You’re 300 pounds five foot tall. 300 pounds, haven’t walked a mile in 10 years and they’ll just come in and throw you down. Give me 50 them Yes. Boom, boom.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, if your life if you can come home and just like recline back and chill and read and watch TV or just hang out all day, you’re not doing much. Okay, fine. But most people have like, have to work they have to do things, they have to do chores, they have kids and family and responsibility to take care of so it’s like their life can’t revolve around that right? So obviously with the TV show and that’s what their life is, you know, you can get away with stuff when that’s what all your focus is. But for most people, you know, that’s not the reality that we’re in.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and if you want to go another direction with this, please do but I just wanted to bring up one question here that came in the live chat. And for people listening if you want to join us at the time of this recording, maybe we change the schedule but for now we go live every Monday somewhere around 11am Eastern on Dr. Jay’s Justin health YouTube channel so if you want to check them out, that’s how you can join us in the live chat question here. Does sugar or caffeine effect? I think they meant effect. The sugar caffeine weaken the adrenal is the most. I don’t know if they’re saying like either one. I would say both are a factor in people going to Starbucks and getting their dessert in the cup, which they call coffee. That sugar caffeine combo, I would say is a super big issue with hypoglycemia and adrenal stress. What would you say?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it depends if someone’s doing a cup of coffee or two in the morning and they’re consuming it with some fat and some protein like maybe they’re throwing some collagen MCT oil in there. That tends to time release, the caffeine tends to not be as big of a deal because the caffeine is going to be out of their system, you know, by the time they go to bed. So if they’re doing a cup or two, as long as they are not getting anxious, anxious or irritable, or Moody, or any of those negative symptoms afterwards, I’m okay with a little bit of caffeine. And again, if you’re on the fence, just pull it out or choose something that’s more decaffeinated. Choose a coffee substitute, like to Chino, or do a decaf, kameel or decaf green tea. See if you feel better if you don’t notice a difference where you’re not feeling worse with caffeine, a little bit’s okay. And if you want to time release it, a little bit of fat in there and a little bit of collagen, will time release it and just do it in the you know that first hour or two getting up, don’t do it in the afternoon hours. If people that get in trouble are the ones that do it usually after lunch, and they’re trying to get at that second when between three and five. And then it’s it’s causing a second cortisol surge at night because that caffeine still in their system around 10 to 11 o’clock at night.
Evan Brand: So what you mentioned is good, but your average person’s not doing what you’re you’re doing. They’re wrapped around the Starbucks drive thru, they’re gonna go get a venti caramel frappuccino with frickin whipped cream and six pumps of syrup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so what we’re talking about zero sugar in the coffee, we’re talking totally black with the exception of maybe some MCT or, or a heavy coconut cream. Or if you can handle dairy, maybe a heavy whipping cream, some kind of a good fat in there that you can tolerate. Maybe it maybe it’s just MCT oil, maybe it’s some collagen as well, because that time releases it and really allows it to go in your system slow. Someone on the chat talked about using glucose and sugar to keep their blood sugar stable throughout the day. Like that’s literally like going camping and keeping your fire going all day with paper and kindling. It’s just it’s not practical, because you’re never going to get keto adapted, you’re never going to become a fat burner, when you’re literally relying on glucose to keep your blood sugar stable all day. That’s the problem. And that’s like, you know, physiologically, the antithesis of health. Because really be healthy, you really want to be fat adapted. So you can help burn can help get energy from fat, it’s the most stable energy source, that’s not going to require up and down dips. So the equivalent of that is getting energy from logs in a campfire, which burn a lot longer and stronger than let’s say kindling a paper. So you just have to look and say, if I’m camping, the goal was I want to really get my heat from those good logs, not killing your paper because I don’t have to be feeding it all day long. That’s the difference.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and some of this biochemical talk people may dislike to now and like, turn into a zombie. So if you’re listening to this, you’re like, well, how does this actually change how I’m getting through my day. So that example that Justin’s mentioning with the really good fatty coffee versus the really sugary coffee. So this is the person who, like I know, you’ll do fatty coffees, like during our podcast, so you’re going to be burning clean, and you’re going to have a good energy burn throughout the entire morning, versus the person doing the sugary caffeine, they’re going to crash Two hours later. And then they’re going to go for maybe as this person mentioned in the comments, or they’re going to go for fruit or fruit juices or something else, they’re going to get that quick hit of kindling again, and then they’re going to crash. So when you’re at work that you’re not going to be performing at your best. I mean, if I were in charge of like a massive company, and I had the ability to give people support, I would say, hey, look, everybody can do a nutritionist console, let’s say you had like a warehouse worker. And we found that the output of the warehouse workers were 20% more efficient, if we all had them on more animal based higher fat diets, as opposed to these people. You know, when I used to work at UPS to pay for my college, you’d have these guys who on a four or five hour shift, they pull out two or three candy bars just to get through the shift. And here I was eating just my grass fed ground beef before I went in, and I was stable the whole time. These guys could work for an hour, they got to go do a bag of chips, they go to the vending machine, get the coke, and then they go do the Cheetos. I mean, it was literally it was crazy to watch.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And there’ll be a lot of people out there. And this is why I talked about this amount of time to people that you’re going to see breaking all the rules that I’m saying these are going to be the vegan vegetarians, the high carbers. And when you’re an ectomorph, you can handle lots of carbs your body has the ability to take those carbs shunted in Burnet right away. And then these are the people that get energized with more carbs. Like if I if I give you a glass of orange juice and a bunch of carbs, these are the people that want to go out and literally run a marathon because their body handles carbs, and it just fuels them up and makes them so energized. And so we all have vegan vegetarian friends that just literally eat carbs all day, right? You know, you see the fruitarians that are out there. This is a big thing. I think in the 80s. at Apple, there was a big like fruitarian called they all ate fruit was like unbelievable. And you see people that are energized, energized. These are ectomorphs these are people that can handle that I still don’t think it’s healthy, I think as long term ramifications with insulin and oxidative stress. But people can do that based on kind of their natural genetics, metal type and how they can handle fuel. Most people aren’t at that place. And so you kind of have to really look at getting good proteins and fats in there and manage your blood sugar accordingly. And so, the only other thing I wanted to highlight was oh yeah, let’s say let’s say you’re doing a fast like a two day course. free day fast if it’s a punctuated fast, and most people want to faster, they’re keeping their stress down, they’re not going to go work 12 hours a day and deal with stress, because when you’re fasting, you’re not getting nutrients in your body via vegetables, or fruit or protein. So you’re relying on primarily your fat for fuel. And obviously, protein, you’re doing what’s called cellular autophagy, where you’re recycling proteins. And ideally, you’re recycling some of those, you’re getting some of those for fuel, you’re also getting a big bump of adrenaline and cortisol for those couple of days. So you may feel pretty good and pretty alert if your adrenals are strong. And then of course, you’re you know, you’re getting a lot of the fat because you’re tapping into fat, but long term, that’s not good, right? Because we know, any person that’s been on a long term starvation, like diet, you know, you just look at people will were to post concentration camps that were starved, but no one walks out of that healthy, right? It’s impossible. But for a short two to three or four day period, you definitely can. And the key is you have to keep your stress down and under control, maybe do some bone broth, or do some minerals as well to keep your minerals and your electrolytes up. But most people that will still be the equivalent of a CrossFit workout. And if they’re metabolically unflexible, that could break them as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said another question here, I have a friend that lives in mold and is super stressed. How does mold affect the adrenals? Well, it is a huge cause of adrenal issues, mainly because it’s creating this alert response, it’s creating a sympathetic stress, the body’s trying to react to it, hopefully, the body’s reacting to it, meaning that there is some sort of immune response. And maybe there’s some antibodies that come in, maybe there’s some detox pathways that are ramping up. So hopefully your body has a reaction, but it’s a huge adrenal stress. And I would say, even if they’re not living in mold, and you just have mycotoxins in your system, that can be an adrenal stress, or two, I know for me, I had a lot more baseline anxiety when I had just mycotoxins in my system, and I wasn’t being exposed to mold, my wife experienced the same thing. So we were doing adaptogenic herbs to help regulate the adrenals. But once we’ve detox quite a bit using binders, when we’ve done many podcasts on that, my baseline anxiety is back to the way it was before, which was I didn’t have baseline anxiety. So yeah, I can tell you firsthand, it’s a big, big factor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the first thing we have to do, if we have issues with mold is you one, you got to get your environment more stabilized, make sure you’re able to digest and break down foods and get good proteins and good fats in there. Also, on the flip side, right, I’ve talked about, you know, some of the fasting benefits and stories, we have a lot of we have a large group of people out there that are carnivores, like they literally just eat meat all day long. And they do amazing, right, and so like, you have to look at both sides of the camp, because their success stories on both sides of the camp. And so you have to understand why someone may have a success story over here, and not over there, or why someone over here has one but not over there, you have to look at it in a kind of non dogmatic type of, of mindset, right? People kind of have their camp and say, Well, this person over here has to be lying. It’s like, Well, probably not. And, you know, we’ve seen 1000s of patients. So I’ve been able to kind of understand why certain people on the high carb get great success and why people on the extreme low carb, and why somewhere in between tends to be the biggest bang for your buck, right and, and then who are those people that way you can make recommendations and push people to either direction, so they can get better results. Because it’s like you’re either you either have like my allegiance is to getting the patient the best result not to using a tool to get them to the result, I put enough tools in my tool belt so I can be non attached to the tool because I want the result to get happen for the patient. Some people are really, they’re really attached to the tool, and they want this tool to be what gets them the result. And you really have to, as a patient, find doctors that are unattached to the tool, they really just want to get you the result that you’re looking for.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said and, you know, me being an ectomorph, you would think I wouldn’t do well with just tons of meats and fats. But I do great, really low carb and there is some discussion of mold and fungal infections and candida overgrowth and CBOE and CFO and some of these things, that people will do better. And I definitely had a history of a lot of gut issues. So I think for me, that’s part of the reason I do so well low carb as an ectomorph. But I certainly feel fine on starch and white rice and berries and, and all of that. And I’m kind of lucky, I guess I think it’s a blessing to be able to do both, it’s a blessing for me to have a grass fed steak with just blueberries for breakfast and feel fine all day. But it also be cool to do some rice with some dinner and have no issues with it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You have enough of a solid foundation with your proteins and your fats and your nutrient density. Where those those a little bit of carbs, it’s not gonna be enough, it’s kind of like you have a fire going you have a good log already in there. If you throw a little bit of kindling extra in the fire, it’s the fire is still gonna be there, right still gonna be strong. And so that’s kind of where you’re at and the more metabolically flexible you get, you know, but in the end, you got to listen to your body, right? We got we got to be we got to be data results driven, not not dogma driven. And if you feel great doing something, and you know your nutrient density is up and you’re in you feel good and you feel energized and you feel flexible and you don’t feel inflamed. That’s really important.
Evan Brand: Here’s what I recommend this podcast is brought to you by Daybook. No, it’s not actually brought to you by Daybook. But Daybook‘s a cool app that I have on my phone. And I love it, because I’ll pull it up real quick. I love it. I wish I could share my screen on my phone somehow. But anyway, I love because I can just scroll through it. So people don’t audio, you’re not going to see this at all. And I apologize. But anyway, it’s cool, because you can look at it. And you can go may 27, may 25, may 23. And you could just scroll through and you could be like, oh, look on May 3, I wrote here that I did a grass fed steak and a big old bowl of white rice, and my blood sugar crashed. So it’s fun to be able to report back. I know there’s a million apps out there. But that’s just one that I like, because I like to be able to hit the plus button, start new notes, do voice to text, whatever I can and then boom, I can look back, and I’ll just be like, oh, here, here’s where I messed up. And so I think people have to track this. You’re mentioning that listening to your body. If you’re busy, you got kids, you got a job, it’s tough to know, oh crap, what day was that, that I did the rice and then I did the grain free this and the gluten free cookie or whatever. If you can track it in the app, you can report back, so picking out but that’s what I like.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like that. Also, just for my autoimmune patients listening I see a lot of patients that have thyroid issues hashimotos other autoimmune issues, blood sugar fluctuations high to low can definitely increase immune activation. I have a couple of studies here. I’ll just kind of give you all the overview just so you could take on what sticks was study right here talking about the effects of hyperglycemia on an inflammatory response. Another one here, the effects of induced hypoglycemia on inflammation and oxidative stress with patients that have type two diabetes that they made diet changes where they restricted calories and gave them Metformin to cause low blood sugar levels. And they saw an increase in immune response, they saw an increase in monocytes, and platelet aggregation, a whole bunch of things right. And so you know, we’re talking about inducing low blood sugar in a in this could get out of a study on this directly. But we could do this with a bad diet with hypoglycemia from a reactive hypoglycemic diet, like someone consuming a Starbucks macchiato with extra pumps of Carmel in there and you create a low blood sugar response. That way, you’re going to activate interleukins cytokines monocytes immune responses that are not going to be helpful and may even flare up your autoimmunity. And so the more you can snake your blood sugar along throughout the day, with good proteins, good fats and the right amount of carbs for you and your activity level versus up and down swings, the better it will be we know the data on on low blood sugar and the immune response is profound and people that have autoimmune issues, you really have to work on that. Yeah, right here. Although the underlying mechanism remains unclear, increase inflammatory cytokines and leukocytosis are reported after hypoglycemia, suggesting a link between hypoglycemia and in formation. And again, this hyperglycemia will be a little bit different than let’s say intermittent fasting, hypoglycemia, but the faster your blood sugar drops, right? The more inflammation, the more your body’s gonna create a hormonal response, that’s not going to be helpful.
Evan Brand: Makes total sense. Here’s a lady grace left the comment for it. She said she used to do one meal a day and two meals a day. And it felt like a badge of honor when I could fast for longer, but I realized it was stressing me out and not optimal for digestion. Probably meaning saying she’s not optimal for digestion. Yeah, it’s just too much too much at one meal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you know, if you do that, you know, I think you come at it a couple days a week, make sure you’re relatively healthy. Make sure you take some extra HCl or enzymes, make sure you carve out a little more time to eat that meal, so you’re not stressed. Also, just just go and run your food through chronometer. Like, if you’re getting two meals a day, you know, go go carve out what that meal has to look like you’re gonna find it’s about 50% bigger on average. And that’s just a lot more food and a lot more time and you got to make sure you’re not stressed because we all know what happens when you eat a big meal and then you’re stressed you feel even worse you feel totally weighed down, you feel nauseous, then your next meal you don’t even want to eat it because you’re still just upset. So yep, I think we hit today really good. I would just say like understand the connection between cortisol, adrenaline, your immune system, why some people get great results doing different diets and other people right read between the lines be results driven, not dogma tool, modality driven. It’s really important right? Check your biases at the door. Outside of that I hope this podcast resonates with different folks if you want to reach out and you want to get individualized help from Evan, EvanBrand.com you can reach out to Evan. Dr. J here JustinHealth.com. You’ll see schedule links. We’re happy to work with patients worldwide. You know we are in the trenches rolled with our sleeves rolled up dealing with people every single day so we’re here to help outside of that if you enjoy the content, put your comments below let us know what you liked the best and please share with family and friends that could benefit it really helps propel kind of our life’s mission to help more people every day. Appreciate it. Anything else Evan?
Evan Brand: No that’s it Take good care and yeah leave us a review on your Apple podcast app we’d love it if you’re on Justin health show or if you’re on my show and brain show, give us a review, we’d love to see what stars you think the show deserves. We’ve got hundreds and hundreds of five stars we’d love to add to it that helps us in the rankings so more people can hear us. So thank you so much in advance and take care yourself.
Natural Solutions to Address POTS (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome) | Podcast #329
POTS is a known blood circulation problem indicated by two elements: a specific group of symptoms that constantly happen when standing. A heart rate suddenly increases from horizontal to standing (or as tested on a tilt table) of at least 30 bpm in adults, or at least 40 bpm in adolescents, measured during the first 10 minutes of standing.
Management for POTS should be specific to each individual since the symptoms and underlying conditions may vary. Most patients can control the situation with food templates, exercise, and medications. In this podcast, Dr. J and Evan emphasize the importance of the quality of food that we eat and seek medical attention, and undergo tests that will find the disease’s root cause for better understanding and achieve a healthier body.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:15 What is POTS
10:56 Adaptogenic Herbs
15:15 Addressing POTS
24:43 Detox and Sauna
27:14 Other Natural and Organic Tips
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s got the J in the house here with Evan Brand really excited to have a excellent podcast on the topic of POTS, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, which is has to do with blood pressure and dizziness. And there’s a strong connection with POTS and the adrenals we’re really excited to dive into that today, Evan, how are we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Doing really well. I feel like I started every story or every podcast by like complaining a little bit, but that’s okay. Because we learn from our personal struggles. And that’s what makes us better practitioner. So I was telling you before we hit record that when I had the, you know what virus, I had a lot of POTS types symptoms, I was really dizzy, I was really faint. I was having some lower blood pressure. I was having some heart palpitations, I was having some mental confusion just fell out of it. And so dealing with it personally, I definitely tried a lot of different things. So you and I are going to try to go into it. You and I were talking about the adrenal piece. So why don’t you just start telling us about that? What do you think the connection is? You think it’s a more of a low cortisol deal? A high cortisol? Do you think it’s just adrenal weakness? The whole HPA axis is functioning as a whole, or do you think there’s any specific part of adrenal problems that’s causing this?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great, great, great question. So first off, you know, what is POTS? Right? So essentially, there’s like dysautonomia happening, right? The autonomic nervous system that controls heart rate, and blood pressure, sweating, all of these different things, the symptoms are over exaggerated now. So when you change body positions, you may get very dizzy lightheaded, right, your heart rate may be really up, energy fatigue, maybe up, right, conventional medicine, they’re going to use a tilt table test to kind of simulate that change of body position, and they’re going to test your heart, they’re going to test your blood pressure, okay? Now the typical response you want in, in natural medicine, there’s a test called the raglans test, which looks at blood pressure and correlates it to adrenal dysfunction. And so the raglans tests, basically test your blood pressure when you’re sitting or laying down, and then you stand up or change body position, you want your blood pressure, actually to go up about five to 10 points, okay? People that tend to be more on the pot side, where they have a lot of those symptoms on changing their body position, they tend to actually have a drop in blood pressure. And that’s important, because when you change body positions, now, if you’re like more horizontal, well, guess what, it’s easier for your blood to flow to your brain, right? Because blood flows downhill. And if it’s level than that, that works too, right? soon as you get up. Now, you really have to pump blood uphill, if you will, to get to your brain. And so if you have a drop in blood pressure, you’re not going to have enough pressure to perfuse that blood nutrition and oxygen to the brain. So that’s a big thing. So you may have symptoms in regards to your heart, in regards to dizziness, right? body awareness, all those different things because you don’t have adequate blood pressure. And so that’s a common sign with adrenal issues. And it’s possible to be on the POTS spectrum, where you have that change in body position, you have that change in lower blood pressure, but you know, your conventional medical doctor may not be able to diagnose you with POTS because it’s not severe enough. So like anything, there’s a there’s a continuum on a diagnosis, right? disease, allopathic kind of criteria is here. And then we have optimal health here. And usually there’s a spectrum of where you may sit where you’re kind of in no man’s land. And so most of our POTS patients, right who are on that pot spectrum where there’s blood pressure issues, on the lower side or the change in body position causes lots of disturbances cognitively cognitive wise heart issues, whether it’s faster or or beating through the chest kind of things, or abnormal rhythm. All of these things are connected to adrenals. And adrenal is are of course connected to blood sugar. They’re connected to your minerals, your sodium, your chloride, your magnesium, your potassium, blood sugar, cortisol glucocorticosteroids. And then of course, your adrenals eventually have a connection with your sex hormones. So you can see chronically lower dapa back can create other lower or more sex hormone imbalances that can create more issues, whether it’s PMS, low progesterone, more anxiety, more depression, poor sleep. So you can see how an adrenal issue can easily spin into a sex hormone issue, partly because the adrenals really are one of the backup generators for the sex hormones. And so especially if you’re a female, you’re going to rely on those adrenals to pump out dapa sulfate. And that’s going to be a major building blocks. So as you transition into menopause, you’re going to rely more on those adrenal. So as you hit your 40s, it’s common as those ovaries aren’t supporting the hormonal output like they used to that you may start to lean more on the adrenals. And more of those POTS type of symptoms may show up.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said, well, you pointed out something really interesting. I never thought about it like this, but you and I clinically we kind of operate in the no man’s land, meaning that people may have not been extreme enough, as you mentioned, to get the clinical diagnosis. I mean, the same thing happens with celiac, right? They’ll say that you have to have some In crazy, like 95% tissue destruction in the intestines to be considered celiac, but if you’re like 94%, they say you’re not celiac, go eat some bread, it’s fine. So it’s very interesting point you made. And we’ve actually had clients report this to where they’ll say that their pulse rate or their heartbeat only increased by maybe 20, or 25 beats upon standing. And they were told clinically, it had to be 30 beats. So if you’re 28 beats, you’re still not pods, if you’re 30 beats, increase your POTS. And so that’s the problem is there’s this huge in between area where people have these symptoms, but then they go to their doctor, and they’re basically going to get told that everything is fine. And there’s really nothing we can do for you or possibly what they’ll do. If it was moderate enough, but maybe not clinically diagnosed on paper, maybe they do a beta blocker, because they say, Okay, I understand you’re standing up, you’re having heart palpitations, you’re having chest pain, let’s go ahead and do this meta pro law or other beta blocker to try to calm the symptoms, but then you never actually fixed the adrenals you never support the hormones, you never fixed the minerals. And all of that still goes unaddressed. And then of course, you get the side effects of the drug, and then you create more problems. So you see how this could be a really big slippery slope. And then also one thing I want to mention too, because I experienced it personally was you mentioned like the the dizziness and that kind of stuff, but also just mental fog. I mean, if you don’t have enough nutrients, enough blood flow, you just feel kind of spacey. So if you’re having trouble with focus, a lot of times you and I are looking on like an organic acids test to try to look at dopamine or other neurotransmitter problems. But this whole dysautonomia POTS thing could also create brain fog. So that’s just something else that we’re going to be looking for and trying to address.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so typically with POTS is you’re gonna have a combination of a drop in blood pressure, right? So conventional medicine diagnosis is looking at a 20 millimeter drop in mercury on the blood pressure cuff on the systolic, that’s the top number, and then about a 10 or more on the bottom number. So if it’s normally 120 over 80, you know, you got to be at, you know, below 100 over 70, if you will, okay, and that’s in the first couple of minutes of that change in body position. And then typically, as the blood pressure drops, now you’re not able to move as much blood. And so what has to happen is your heart rate has to increase to compensate for the lack of pressure. And so as the heart rate increases, that’s where you start to see the increase in heart rate, that’s where the, the postural orthostatic that’s the change in body position, tachycardia, that means faster heart rate. And so that’s where you start to feel your heart beating out of its chest. Okay, and so then you have the drop in blood pressure on one side, and the increase in heart rate on the other side. So the first thing we look at, from a functional medicine perspective, where are we in? Where are we at with hydration? Okay, are we getting enough water and hydration in? Number two? Is that full spectrum mineral water? Are we getting a really good mineral water? Are we getting? are we adding additional minerals to it? And then number three, where are we at with diuretics, coffee, tea, things that have caffeine because coffee or tea number one will increase adrenaline, right? And adrenaline is part of this whole POTS cascade, so increased adrenalin, increased, cortisol can always increase the heart rates. But it also acts more as a diuretic where you pee more water out, that drops your blood pressure. And then when you drop the water, you drop the minerals and your heart needs sodium and chloride and magnesium and your minerals to function. Remember, magnesium is a natural beta blocker. And so if we can get the minerals in that brings the blood pressure up because water follows minerals. And if we can get minerals in that relax the heart because magnesium is a natural beta blocker, right. And so that can really help start to relax the heart, but you got to fix the underlying issue. And so you got to really get and that’s just a couple of lifestyle, diet strategies out of the gates, we’ll talk more specifically. But anyone that has POTS or POTS symptoms, we have to really look at the adrenals. And you may not necessarily have an Addison’s issue where your cortisol is pathologically low, right, or Cushing’s where it’s pathologically high, it may be some kind of an imbalance in between. That’s why we use the word adrenal dysfunction because some people are high in the morning, low at night, and vice versa. So it may not be high throughout the day or low throughout the day, you could be somewhere in between. And so we really got to look at these things and test it and quantify and see exactly where you’re at.
Evan Brand: Yeah, great points. And on the testing, you made another great point, too, which is that if you do work with conventional medicine, they may say that your problem is not bad enough to be pathological. So we’ve had clients that will do just a morning cortisol sample via blood, and their doctor says, Well, your cortisol levels are fine. And it’s like, okay, yeah, you took an ATM blood sample. And that’s it. That’s just not enough tensional data, you have no, maybe you have a better analogy, but my analogy is you’re you’re touching the sidewalk to estimate the forecast. You have no idea what’s going to happen throughout the rest of the day with that rhythm. So if you’re having your POTS episode at 2, 3pm, you’re crashing, well, what’s going on from a cortisol perspective at that point with that 8am blood sample and that’s it. You don’t have a clue. Let me let me mention a couple things too. So I know that a lot of people with mold, just looking at Dr. Shoemaker and his big list of symptoms, POTS is sort of thrown in to some of these symptoms for mold exposure, and then also lyme. So when you’re trying to find root causes adrenals could be a factor, but there could be another layer deeper. So if you’ve had any kind of take issues, coinfection issues that could be a problem. And so, I know Stephen Buner, I talk about him a lot. He’s a really great herbalist who’s written a lot of books, he discusses using Hawthorne. And so I’ve experimented with some heart formulas myself, like mixing CO, q, 10, and Hawthorne. And I’ve had really good success with it. And so I think those are two, two good herbs that you know, two good nutrients that could help. And then also gingko could be helpful too, because gingko is going to help with blood flow and microcirculation. We use it a lot for brain problems. But I do believe that it can be helpful for POTS. And then let’s talk about the adaptogenic herbs. So I guess it really depends on what you’re looking like. But in general adaptogens are going to help modify you either way. So I would say something like rhodiola, or maybe a good ginseng, like an eleuthero is going to be probably the top top choice on adaptogens. What would you say? Oh, what about licorice? Should we talk about that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so a lot of these herbs out of the gates, you know, they’re nice, because they’re going to help with blood flow. A lot of these herbs like gingko, or Hawthorn, they tend to be used more on the high blood pressure side, right. And so they may help with blood flow. But remember, I think with POTS, there’s definitely more of a blood, low blood pressure kind of kind of thing. So we have to kind of, you know, make sure we support all of the other underlying issues. Because, you know, a lot of times, if we’re not getting to the root, then we may not get lasting results. Plus a lot of times the medications that are used, what are the big medications that are used out of the gates, is it just beta blockers out of the gates, I know they do some things like floor enough, which can be helpful, which is basically a pharmaceutical version of aldosterone, which helps to hold on to sodium, which helps increase blood pressure. You kind of alluded just a minute ago, licorice does help mimic that. And so we can use things like licorice, that non diglycerides meaning not licorice, that’s diglycerides de glycerides. licorice loses that aldosterone stimulating effect, and it’s more for gut healing. But if we’re using licorice that has not been de glycerides, non dgl, licorice that can have very powerful effects on low aldosterone levels, and it can help hold on the minerals better. So for adding more minerals in there, that’s helpful. conventional medicine typically only talks about it from a perspective of sodium and sodium chloride, they kind of forget about the magnesium and the potassium part of it. So magnesium and potassium are also very important. Also, they’re using a lot of beta blockers, right? So beta blockers, guess what they reduce the heart rate, but they also can reduce the blood pressure. And they have effects of creating nutritional deficiencies. And it can it can lead you can lose some of those same minerals, magnesium, etc, that are also very helpful for the heart in general. So the problem with a lot of the medications, they can actually make some of the problems worse in the long run, because they’re not fixing the underlying issue.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said, here’s here’s a couple other drugs, you’re asking what drugs, here’s a list of them. There’s one called Ivabradine. It’s a drug that acts on the heart to slow the heart rate, but it slows the heart with without affecting blood pressure. And then there’s another one here, underneath, it’s hard to even pronounce it Pyridostigmine, the brand name Mestinon, this is a drug that prevents the breakdown of acetylcholine. So that’s pretty interesting. It’s like an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, I guess.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm, interesting.
Evan Brand: It says they use it for. Let’s see here. Myasthenia Gravis.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s an autoimmune condition that affects the postsynaptic neuron where acetylcholine plugs in.
Evan Brand: So they’re using that drug for POTS also, I guess it’s kind of an off label deal. And then SSRIs for some reason, it says here that, you know, people I guess they’re saying practitioners suspect that the fainting spells may be related to serotonin or some other neurotransmitter so they also use SSRIs. But once again, none of this is root cause and as you mentioned, the conventional like Web MD stuff is all about sodium, sodium, sodium, like you should just be frickin eating spoonfuls of like iodized salt all day, which is just ridiculous.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there’s different kinds of salt right? And there’s some salts that we like that like real salt or Redmond Real Salt or Celtic salt or Himalayan that are gonna have sodium and chloride but a bunch of other minerals as well, which is great. The problem a lot of the medications for instance, beta blockers are notorious for depleting CoQ 10. And we need coq 10 for healthy heart function. So problem with a lot of these medications is you’re kind of robbing. You’re paying your credit card debt from last month with a new credit card you open this month. And so you can only play hot potato like that for so long before that bill becomes due.
Evan Brand: We made the point about the potassium to I think we talked about that for a minute because you’re saying even if we do bring in some of the Celtic or the mineral salts You may get some trace amounts, right? But you’re not going to get a significant amount. So you’re thinking possibly supplementing, like we have. I know you and I work with a couple electrolyte formulas where there’s some potassium added in there. So something like that would be better than just straight salt.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so how I look at it with patients is first thing first is drink enough water. Make sure that water is clean, filtered, no crap, not tap water, number one. Number two, avoid the diuretics. Right. avoid caffeine. avoid alcohol, avoid teas, right. So that way you’re not peeing out extra water and minerals. add extra minerals to your water. So good. Redmond’s real salts Celtic sea salt, half a teaspoon teaspoon twice a day is great salt your food very liberally hydrate you know, 20 ounces or so before each meal 1015 minutes before drink in between meals. It’s great. If you’re drinking a really clean reverse osmosis water which is fine. Just make sure you add extra minerals back to it. definitely avoid any distilled water. And then if you want to drink like a really good clean mineral water throughout the day, my favorite here in Texas Topachico’s wonderful, right? It’s the Pellegrino of the South Pellegrino is also wonderful good mineral sulfate drill Steiner, Evian, Fiji, Fiji has got a lot of silica in there really excellent out of the gates love those. I would say also, you may need to have more potassium and magnesium than what you’re getting in mineral water and in the salt, because you need about 4700 milligrams per day. So I recommend everyone, head over to JustinHealth.com/cronometer, put the link below, run your macros run a typical day through there, right put your age, your height, your weight, your activity level, and you’re gonna find you need about 4700 milligrams per day. And that’s the [inaudible] daily recommended intake, most people are only getting two to three grams 2000 to 3000 milligrams, and you’re probably have a deficit. And then you also have to factor in when you’re stressed. And when your adrenals have issues, you may need a couple extra grams on top of that, because you’re losing extra minerals. So you got to factor that in. So take a look, see where you’re at, see how low you’re at. And out of the gates, you know, you want to supplement additional potassium, whatever that recommended intake is if you’re at 2700 milligrams, you want an extra 2000 milligrams to meet the needs. And then from there, you really want to work with a functional medicine practitioner because if you go too high in potassium without enough sodium to support it, you can actually you can actually lower sodium by doing too much potassium so you got to keep that sodium potassium in check. Now if you’re doing Redmond’s Real Salt, like I mentioned, along with the potassium, you’re probably okay. But if you have any POTS issues at all, you really want to be working with a functional medicine doctor like us, you want to be looking at cortisol, like Evan said earlier, a blood test is only going to look at your serum cortisol, your protein, it’s not going to look at any of your free cortisol, it’s not going to look at it throughout the day. It’s not going to add it up throughout the day. And then we also run organic acids that look at the catecholamines the adrenaline, the epinephrine again, adrenaline, catecholamines, and epinephrine. It’s all the same thing, right? Medicine uses these words to confuse the heck out of you, adrenaline, catecholamine, nor epinephrine, all the same thing, okay. And so we have to test those and we use organic acids, we’ll run tests for Vanilmandelate and Homovanillate, which gives us a window into your adrenaline precursor. So if we’re burning up adrenaline, we gotta support the amino acids, we got to calm down the adrenals to really help the body. So we’re not creating all this extra stress because that stress causes you to dump minerals. And so if you’re dumping minerals, we have to replace what you typically need. Plus a little bit on top of that, plus, we got to fix and calm down the whole nervous system, right? That autonomic nervous system, that’s the automatic nervous system that controls heart rate, beat, these are things you don’t typically think about. You don’t think about beating your heart, it happens automatically. So we got to help calm that down.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so even some of the lifestyle strategies can get involved too, right? I mean, you could take all the adaptogens. But if you’re just a type A personality or a go getter, you’re not resting, you’re not taking breaks. So I would argue, some music, I would argue meditation, guided meditation, maybe a float tank, deep tissue massage, may be myofascial relief, anything that you could do to try to basically downshift your nervous system. Because yes, you mentioned something several times, which I think really kind of just ding ding ding hit the bell for many people, which is the the variable of stress. And people that are more stressed are going to have this problem more, you’re likely not just going to be sitting on an island, you know, getting, you know, spoon fed pineapple and you feel POTS. Now, this is going to be people that are really under the gun. They’re in the middle of a lot of transition there. Maybe Who knows, maybe they lost their job. Maybe they had a viral issue that really took them down like you had a post viral type POTS Come on. So stress, I think is the big variable and that’s where the adaptogens come in and help the nervous system self regulate. However, I’ve done adaptogens for years and I can still be stressed so I still have to focus During the lifestyle stuff, take the kids for a bike ride, go ride the skateboard, go for a walk, go for a hike, just sit out in the sun and listen to music. So you got to come in with the lifestyle stuff too. You can’t just go take the magic pill and you know, eat the salt and be cured. I think at a certain point, you need to come in and evaluate your lifestyle and figure out do I have toxic people I need to cut out am I working too many hours? Am I able to delegate some of the work I’m a you know, financial advisor and I’m too stressed I’m working 60 hours a week, can you delegate Can you reduce the workload reduce the stress, because in a vacuum, the stuff that we’re talking about, it won’t get you fully out of the woods with this, I do think you have to do a good life evaluation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% got to look at all of it right. And that’s super important. Now, in general with with a lot of things we may want to get, you know, a couple extra, you know, grams of good quality sea salt. So you can start with you know, an extra gram, the 10 grams of high quality sea salt, I typically recommend starting with a half a teaspoon to a teaspoon, two times a day, put it in your water, shoot it down. You can also salt your food very liberally, you know to taste throughout the day. You can also add a little pinch in your water just enough so you can’t taste it, you shouldn’t be able to taste them. You can also drink a good quality quality mineral water right mentioned a couple of these brands. And then you can also work on doing all the right things to reduce stress. So I already mentioned a couple things out of the gates. Blood Sugar is a big thing, the more your blood sugar goes up and down on a roller coaster ride your surging adrenaline and cortisol when your blood sugar goes hypo when it starts to go low. And when you start surging adrenaline, it’s going to create more mineral depletion, because you’re going to pee it out, right? So we The more you can kind of come down that blood sugar and make it more stable part of that by being more fat burner right? healthy proteins, healthy fats and dialing in the carbs, less refined, refined grains, keeping it more to vegetables. And low sugar fruit in those kinds of things play a big, big role in keeping the blood sugar rollercoaster smoothed out. The less blood sugar roller coaster, the less adrenaline the less dumping of minerals does play a huge role across the board.Evan Brand: And this is a new problem. By the way, the blood sugar issue that you’re mentioning this is in terms of modern history, right? Because if you look at like a hunter gatherer, for example, maybe they’re gonna find a beehive and get some fresh honey every once in a while. But never in human history. Have we had access to the processed carbs, the fructose, the processed sugar, these major nations have processed grains, yeah, flowers, any of the stuff that is screwing up our blood sugar. These are all relatively new problems for humankind. So if someone’s sitting back and they’re listening, like God, why is it so complicated to be a healthy human? Well, because we’ve screwed it up with the diet, the lifestyle, the sedentary, the stress, the the schedules, the work hours, I mean, modern life has contributed to this problem. So, you know, I know it’s a little frustrating. And thank God, why is everything complicated with health? Well, because the diet is a big part of it. And I certainly know that when I had blood sugar issues, I had a lot more unstable blood pressure, too. So there is definitely a big connection there. The good news is once you get your diet dialed in, and you are a fat burner, you’re going to feel so much better, you’re going to feel so much more stable.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I remember early on when I was looking at your diet law, we were chatting, I think you were having some of these POTS issues with a lot of the heart racing, right. And I remember looking at your diet and there was like an eight hour gap. In the day where you weren’t eating, I think you were trying to do a little bit more intermittent intermittent fasting, things like that. I’m like, wow, you know, you’re not going to be able to do those things because the fasting is too much of a stress on your body, your your physiology is not strong enough to be able to adapt to that stress. And so if you are doing a lot of intermittent fasting, you really got to be careful of that, you know, so kind of my checklist out of the gates is definitely be more of a fat burner. Avoid the refined flours, grains, high blood sugar types of foods that add in the extra minerals, half a teaspoon, teaspoon high quality, sea salt per day, work with a functional medicine doctor, get your magnesium, your potassium dialed in half your body weight in ounces of water. Clean, filtered water is excellent good quality, reputable brand mineral water during the day. All of these things are vitally, vitally important. Good breathing, good movement, don’t over exercise where you’re sweating too much. You know, make sure you’re doing all the right things and get your adrenals tested, get your organic acids tested to look at your adrenalin as well. I mean, we can always dive in deeper. If you have a lot of gut issues and absorption there. There always could be a bottleneck with the gut as well. It’s always possible, but those are kind of your first steps out of the gates, Alaska with the low hanging fruit, start with low hanging fruit, and then work on finding a good functional medicine support practitioner to get in your corner.
Evan Brand: I wanted to bring this up before you wrapped it up. So last thing, detox and sauna. So I do notice that some clients and me included if we go too high, we do too much. We do too frequent with sauna and or detox support, especially binders, we can run into some trouble. So just like you mentioned On the exercise not doing too much. Same thing with sauna I think you got to be careful with it if you’re already adrenally depleted, if you’re glutathione deficient if your detox pathways are not working, you can overdo it quick. So I would say the average person could hopefully handle twice a week, maybe 135 to 140 degrees for about 20 minutes but if you start to feel woozy, you feel faint, you feel like you’re gonna pass out in the sauna just get out, you’re probably dehydrated, your mineral are off your adrenals are too weak, so don’t push it, don’t push it. And then on the binder piece, work with your practitioner, but in general, sometimes less is more on the binders. I remember when I was doing like eight charcoal per day, I started to feel pretty woozy and it could have been like a detox reaction, but I think it may have been some mineral stuff too. So I was doing some fulvic acids and some salts to try to help balance it, but I still overdid it with binders. So those are just two other notes I wanted to share.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So if you’re going to do a sauna, make sure if you already have kind of POTS symptoms, one don’t do it right after exercise, probably too much stress. Okay, do a sauna session by itself. Number two, take an electrolyte support a balanced electrolyte support product before you go in and have a good mineral water while you’re there sweating. So then any water that comes out, you’re replacing it as it comes in with mineral so supplement before and then good mineral water during and that should be and then try to keep it under 20 minutes and make sure you’re not feeling any bit woozy or any bit worse in regards to your symptoms while you’re in there. I think that’s a good kind of general way of of hitting.
Evan Brand: Alright, here’s my shameless plug. And then we can wrap up My Hydration Essentials is an electrolyte formula that I drink, I just do a scoop of it. I mix it with water and drink one scoop a day. And it does have some ribose it does have potassium, some taurine, some of the other nutrients outside of just your sodium. And I also drink that in the sauna and I give it to my kids. And I like to actually mix it with beet powder. And we use just an organic beet powder. And I add it to the electrolytes because it really increases nitric oxide. So my hands, my feet, everything gets warmer, circulations better and I sweat, like 25% more sweat in the sauna, if I mix the electrolytes with the beet powder and drink that. So that’s called hydration essentials.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s great. And other natural thing that you can do on top of that celery juice is wonderful. You get about one gram of potassium in a cup of celery juice. So celery juice is excellent. Very good. It’s kind of your it’s Mother Nature’s natural Gatorade, right problem with Gatorade ton of sugar, a ton of high fructose ton of dyes. So it’s basically crap. You know, Mother Nature’s gatorades coconut water. But the problem with coconut water is a lot of sugar in it. So you really only want to do a post workout. So the best type of natural low sugar gatorades in the me celery juice, that’s a great option for you a lot of good minerals, a lot of good potassium. And if you do any green juices really avoid any carrot and or any fruit in there because when just juice it, the sugar concentrates really high. And that can create this reactive hypoglycemic drop blood sugar was a fast comes down hard. And this is kind of what feeds into the all the pot stuff. Right, it creates more cortisol aberrations and more adrenaline, noradrenaline stimulation, so just be careful that really good we’ll put links to the some of the products that Evan mentioned and some of the things that I mentioned as well. Anything else you want to highlight, Evan?
Evan Brand: Great call on the carrots. You know, when you think of eating a carrot, like in a beef stew, you don’t think of it as being necessarily sugar. But I have had some clients do what you’re describing, which is they’ll get into the green juices with the carrots and will track their blood sugar. Man, that stuff screws up their blood sugar almost as much as a soda does.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, if you’re gonna have a carrot, eat it whole. Once you juice it, it becomes a problem. Now if you’re doing like, if you’re just using like one carrot, and you’re relatively healthy, probably not a big deal. But if you have blood sugar issues, I stay away from any carrots if you’re gonna have a carrot habit and your salad eat it raw. I think that’s a good way to do it. Still nutrient dense. But yeah, you gotta you don’t want to throw too much blood sugar on that blood sugar rollercoaster. And beets too.
Evan Brand: Sorry. Well, last thing. So I talked about the beets. So the one that we use and carry is a non hybridized beet powder because apparently just like with strawberries, and pretty much every other fruit in the in the modern world, everything’s hybridized now to be bigger, brighter, sweeter. So most beets are hybridized even if they’re non GMO, they’re hybridized and so they’re gonna cause a big blood sugar problem. I have some clients that are just way too blood sugar unstable to handle beets but if it’s a non hybridized version, it is a little bit more well tolerated. So just keep that in mind if you feel kind of woozy. If you do the beet powder thing I’m talking about you feel weird. It could be messing with your blood sugar, you could always test it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent really good. Hey, if you guys are enjoying today’s content and how you support us feel free click down below look at some of our links. Sign up for our newsletter. If the information that we’re talking about resonates Feel free to schedule a call with with Evan or myself we have colleagues and support teams ready to help you out if you want to dive in deeper. We’re here to help you take control your health. 99% of people may not take that step. Use the information. Take Control your health, you’re ready for that next step we are here for you. Share this content with friends or family. Put your comments down below. I want to know what your experiences are with POTS or any of these POTS like symptoms. We’re here to help and appreciate you guys all engaging. Have a phenomenal day.
Evan Brand: Take care now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care y’all. Bye now.
Essential Blood Tests to Analyze Your Health | Podcast #305
Regular blood testing is one of the most important ways to keep track of your overall physical well-being. Getting tested at routine intervals can allow you to see how your body changes over time and empower you to make informed decisions about your health. Here’s Dr. J and Evan talking about the areas to check aside from the usual blood tests we know.
A conventional medical doctor will typically recommend that you get routine blood work, but this is the bare minimum. There are several significant reasons you may want to get blood tests more often than that. Either you want to optimize your health or to reduce the risk of disease and health complications.
What are some routine tests and others that you should ask or know? Aside from CBCs (Complete Blood Count), Dr. J and Dr. Even pointed out enzyme markers, cholesterol tests, blood sugar tests, liver markers, thyroid panel, and so on. It will help your doctors make a differential diagnosis and dive into the root cause of your present health status. To know more, check out this podcast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
3:12 Conventional Side of Blood Works
12:14 Thyroid Panels
17:56 Blood Glucose
23:50 Adrenal Issues
29:33 Lipid Panels
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today, we’re gonna be chatting about blood tests that we use to help assess our health and help us get better. So we’re gonna be chatting a little bit about kind of intro blood tests, what the best tests are kind of what our perspective on that is, Evan, how are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Doing really well excited to dive into this topic, I went, got my blood work. And I got my wife’s blood work done on Friday. And I just want to give a brief little note on how you and I run blood work as clinicians because it’s very easy. And it’s so convenient, because we don’t have to go and beg a GP or an MD and say, Hey, please, please, doctor. I mean, you and I’ve heard countless stories. Yeah, I asked my doctor to run this, they wouldn’t run it, I asked my endocrinologist to run this, they wouldn’t run it. With us, the accounts that we have with our credentials, were able to order and create customized lab panels. So you and I both have created customized blood panels that with a click of a button, we can go boom, order it for anyone, whether it’s ourselves, or our clients or patients, and then we get an instant requisition form. We go straight into labcorp request, you check in, you sit down, they call your name, you hand them the paper, you get the blood draw, you go home, it is so amazing. Every time I get my bloodwork done, I’m like, wow. And I didn’t have to get anyone’s permission to do that. But my own.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Isn’t that nice? Yeah, it totally is nice. Also, there’s the big insurance scam, right. So because we have accounts directly with the lab companies, we can order tests, and typically we get, you know, an 80 to 90%. You know, discount in price compared to what the insurance would bill. So like my typical thyroid panel, full thyroid panel that I charge my patients probably around $120. And the insurance would typically charge a patient for that well over $1,000. So then patients, most patients don’t get 100% coverage, right, especially if you’re not in network, and then the doctors can’t ever retest, but once every six months, so then you’re you’re stuck not being able to ever retest. But they think, Oh, I’m gonna get coverage for this. And then they get 90% coverage, and they end up paying more money. For the for the 90% coverage, even though they paid 100% cash, it had been cheaper. So that’s kind of the insurance scam. And then the problem with that is they can’t retest but once every six months, so they’re kind of stuck. So yeah, it’s really nice to be able to order what the patient needs and to be able to reorder and reassess. Based on a time that is good for us. Not good for the insurance companies. That’s kind of nice, right?
Yeah. And you’re kind of we’re kind of circumnavigating that conventional system where you’re waiting two, three months, and then you get a bill in the mail and you’re like, oh, medical bill, What’s this about? And then it’s like, oh, you owe 700. with us. It’s all transparent. It’s up front, you pay, boom, boom, boom, you’re done. I’ve already paid for it. I know that I’m not spending another penny. And the turnaround time is insanely quick to like one or two days, typically on some of these panels are running. So let’s go into some of the details. Now, let’s quickly compare and contrast. I think you and I have a lot of fun. Like where we did our conventional functional medicine vers conventional medicine, gut workup. Let’s talk about the same with bloodwork. So if you go to your doctor, and you have them say, hey, Johnny, we’re going to run your blood. What is that going to look like?
So conventional medical doctor, they’re typically going to do a CBC, they’re going to do a metabolic panel, they’ll probably do a lipid panel that’s usually going to be at maybe a year analysis, that’s kind of it. So like on the CMP they’re kind of looking at liver enzymes. They will look at some electrolytes on the liver on the CMP as well. Those liver enzymes electrolytes, maybe some protein markers there, they’ll probably look at glomerular filtration kind of some baseline kidney function with creatine and and bond. The kit the liver markers are going to be a lt and as to the liver enzyme markers, the gallbladder is ggt but probably look at some bilirubin your electrolytes are going to be sodium chloride, potassium magnesium, all serum not not intercellular which is a difference Okay. And then on the red blood cells are going to look at red blood cells RBC some adequate hemoglobin that’s part of the CBC right complete blood count which is going to help be helpful for anemic patterns right low iron right, although also run indices which are MC VMC, HMCHC right me corpuscular volume me corpuscular hemoglobin me corpuscular hemoglobin concentration. When those markers go high, that tends to mean that we’re dealing with B vitamin issues like b 12, full eight issues, and we call that megaloblastic anemia. So we have two kinds of anemia. As we look at big cell anemia is right we tend to be more B vitamins stuff. And then small anemias. We tend to be more on the red blood cell hemoglobin hematocrit, low iron side, and then we have immune markers, whether it’s neutrophils, lymphocytes, eosinophils, monocytes, and basophils, which could be from bacterial issues, parasite issues, gut inflammation issues, viral issues. And then I would say on top of the CBC, that’s pretty much it and then your limits. So total cholesterol, triglycerides and then of course, your LD vldl pattern, and then there’s some add ons that we may talk about whether it’s c reactive protein for inflammation, fibrinogen, for inflammation, homocysteine for inflammation, methylation, vitamin D. and we can kind of go into each one of those in regards to what we think is important on the functional side. But you know, the whole lipid thing is, it’s kind of overplayed, right people think that lipids are a really important issue now once you start going over 200 or so on the total cholesterol, and that may not be. And we’ll talk about the ratios and the perspective that we add to when we look at it.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so the way you talk, it sounds pretty good. It’s like, oh, wow, that’s a lot of stuff. But truthfully, there are rarely issues that show up on just standard bloodwork. Now, if you have more of the functional training that you and I’ve had regarding blood chemistry, you can kind of, I guess you would just say pick through the CBC with a fine tooth comb, and you can really look and maybe find some functional issues, like for me, I know that I you know, for a very long time, my hematic crit, you know, I’ve always had the hematocrit be a little bit high, which, based on some of the training you and I’ve had, it would indicate that there’s probably a dehydration issue. And that’s tough. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s tough to stay hydrated. And so even if I mean, I’m sipping on water all day, but you know, I’ve heard there’s a big influence on anti diuretic hormone, and all of that when you’re exposed to mold toxin, that’s a conversation for another day. But anyway, unless you’re really looking with a with a fine tooth comb, conventional bloodwork doesn’t reveal much. And you may see a little bit of this a little bit of that, but it’s not, I’m not making too many protocol decisions based on a CBC I would say.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So when I look at blood, it can give me a good area of where to where to look next, or where to dive in deeper, which is helpful. And then if we look at it, using the optimal reference range, or a functional reference range, we can definitely glean better information. So the problem with most conventional medical doctors, they’re looking at blood through a pathological range, they’re trying to pick up like major disease patterns or pathological patterns. And so how it works is you have to show you have all people kind of fit in what’s called the bell curve. And the typical range is going to be two standard deviations to the left and right, this is represents about 95% of the population fit into the so called normal. So you have two and a half on the high two and a half on the low that are on the high or low side, pathologically, right. And so the problem with that range is it as people get more unhealthy and sicker. And as those sick people tend to test more, what happens to the lab reference range over time, it gets wider. And so it becomes more encompassing, it’s like having a bad field goal kicker and you make the field goal every year wider and wider and wider and closer and closer to compensate for the lack of, you know, good kickers out there. So it’s kind of like that. And so what we do is we kind of narrow up that range a little bit, and that narrower range helps us pick things out before it becomes a problem. So let’s kind of go over a couple of things. So with women or people that are vegan vegetarians, women, because they bleed more when they’re when they’re at menstrual age, right, typically 50 or below 48 or below, they can be more anemic. So we may look at things like lower red blood cells, right, red blood cells, you know, below 4.2 or so we may look at hemoglobin below 12, we may look at him at a crit, you know, in the mid to low 30s as a sign that there could be some low iron issues brewing, we may also run an iron panel, it’s not typically run, but we may run things like ferritin, or iron binding capacity. Or we may look at things like iron saturation to get a window of low iron, for instance. And that’s commonly missed, because what most conventional Doc’s do is, their threshold for low iron is really low. And there’s a lot of women I see in vegetarians in general that could be on that lower side could be a little bit anemic, and then they’re not going to be able to carry oxygen throughout their body adequately, which makes a huge difference in energy and stress and and mitochondrial function and thyroid function because you need to be able to carry oxygen to have good energy.
Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s go into some of the more let’s let’s, let’s break some of the stuff down. But before we break it down more, let’s hit on what are the things that that we’re going to run and so I’ve got my panel pulled up that I ran. And so I’ll kind of run through some of these things. But as you mentioned, ferritin that’s typically not going to get run I’ve rarely rarely seen fair to run by anyone. The iron saturation as you mentioned the iron binding capacity. That’s really wrong. That’s right to be ti BC. Often on your bloodwork, the vitamin D. I mean, my God, it’s so important, but yet vitamin D to this day is still not commonly run. Nope. And if they run it, they may run the wrong one. I’ve seen people where they don’t run the 25 o hydroxy. tryptophan, they’re going to run like the even the beat the D two. They’re going to run the What is it? Ergo?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the vitamin D too. Yep, Ergocalciferol.
Evan Brand: Yep, yeah. Ergocalciferol? Yeah. So you have a vitamin D, they may run the D two and you’re like crap I needed to d3.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the [inaudible]. The animal base kind of the d3 is the more active form. The D two is the more plant synthetic form, typically made from lanolin. A lot of times, that’s the D two, that’s the ergocalciferol. Ah, so vitamin D is really important. And then the range on that is pathological as well. They want above 20. Why? Because they’re looking for rickets, right, the bone bending disease, right, because d3 helps absorb calcium and helps a calcium get into the bone. So we want 50 to 70 or maybe 70 to 100 if we’re autoimmune or cancer risk. So vitamin D is a big one, I would say also on the CBC, we may be looking at immune cells, if I see low white blood cells, you know, below four and a half. There could be some you know, deficiency issues if there’s high white blood cells, you know, greater than seven and a half there could be some immune stress. Now we look at the, the immune cells, how do we look at those never let monkeys eat bananas, that’s the mnemonic device and doctor at school we learned so neutrophils we want to see, you know, below 60 lymphocytes, we want to see mid reference range when we see high neutrophils or low neutrophils and elevated lymphocytes. That’s a common h pylori or bacterial infection pattern. If we see elevations in eosinophils, greater than four, we’re thinking potential parasites or chronic environmental allergies by sea monocytes, greater than 10. I’m thinking some kind of intestinal inflammation. So we there’s different, you know, patterns you may look at, when we look at some of these immune cells. That’s very important. But unless it’s very high, they’re typically not going to say much. And if it’s very low, they typically don’t say much either there.
Evan Brand: Yep, so also more advanced thyroid markers. It’s very, very sad how many people go to even an endocrinologist and they may only end up with a free T for possibly a free t three, but even that’s not guaranteed. Maybe a total T for you may get Of course, TSH is going to be on there. But you and I are definitely going to be running like thyroid globulin, I mean obat antibodies, we’re going to be running t TPO, thyroid paradoxus antibodies, maybe TSI, sometimes if we think there could be something else going on next. And then you’ve got the uptake of T three, what else you got? You got reverse t three that we’re going to be looking at. That’s an awesome marker. And that’s never run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So when it comes to a thyroid panel, you already mentioned it, most conventional endocrinologist and primary care are going to run TSH because that’s the major screening brain hormone, not a thyroid hormone majrooh. It’s not a thyroid hormone, but it’s a major brain hormone that talks to the thyroid and you’d be lucky to get a T for total after that. But we know downstream is a lot of conversion issues and even patients that have normal TSH, guess what, especially if they’re on Synthroid, which is a synthetic thyroid medication that’s just T for many of them can’t make that conversion. And that’s a problem too. And so you can have adequate T for good TSH and low t three. And you may have a lot of thyroid symptoms. So it’s really important that we look at things complete. And don’t even get me started on thyroid antibodies, because that’s almost never run and thyroid antibodies are the major mechanism why most people sideway glands aren’t functioning properly because their immune systems have beaten the crap out of their thyroid for a very long time.
Evan Brand: And we’re talking what I mean, you’d say probably over half of cases of hypothyroid are probably autoimmune based on what I’ve seen, what would your guess be?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I would say that and some may not even come back on the lab test, but it’s very helpful to be able to look at those we run TPO antibodies and thyroid globulin antibodies. And so my full thyroid panel nevitt, some kind of a TSH, T for free and total t three free and total TPO antibody, federal globulin antibody, and we may run a reverse d3 or an uptake. Those are all okay markers to add to. So that’s kind of your complete thyroid panel. Let me just piggyback to the CVC. Is there anything else on the CDC? I think we hit it all there. We can go to the metabolic profile now if you want.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well, you mentioned like earlier, like CBR active protein c reactive protein, I guess it kinda depends. I mean, sometimes that standard, but a lot of times that’s not an hscrp is, you know, going to be the same same section of the inflammation panel on your blood. So hopefully you get those two run together.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, usually CRP and cardio CRP is basically the same thing CRP, they’re just, they’re breaking the number down typically below two, I think the cardio CRP, they typically don’t do it less than two or so. So when they you do a highly sensitive CRP, they’re just breaking it down into a smaller number. Let’s go we want to see that below one that’s great as a good marker of systemic inflammation. And fibrinogen is great. We have for highly inflamed, we may see a lot of clotting happen. And fibrinogen looks at clotting factors, which is helpful. So if we don’t have good fatty acids, good omega three omega six ratio or a lot of inflammation, a lot of trans fat, high blood sugar cells tend to agglutinate they get very sticky. And so it’s nice to see where that stickiness that stickiness level is. And homocysteine is also another measure of blood inflammation because it’s homocysteine is an inflammatory metabolite. That typically happens when there’s not enough B vitamins B six and four And B 12. In their active form, that can be a big inflammatory issue there too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that was a problem for me. Actually, I did have elevated homocysteine couple years ago and started hitting some more Foley and it fixed it. So it was fun to see how the blood correlated to that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you know, we’re going to try to get as much of that which we can do leafy greens and high quality, you know, essential fats and meats, right, but that’s good. And so metabolic profile, we may look at liver enzymes that could be helpful patients that have a lot of insulin resistance and inflammation, you may see an elevation in liver enzymes. What does that mean? That could be a non alcoholic, fatty liver, non alcoholic steatohepatitis, that’s Nash or non alcoholic fatty liver, meaning your liver has stressed not from alcohol, but from typically too much fructose and junky carbs. So the liver is a people think the liver is just a big filter for toxins. No, it also has a major effect at regulating blood sugar, and is also a storage site for sugar, especially fructose. So when you over consume fructose from high fructose corn syrup, or, you know, just too much carbohydrate, in general, the liver really gets stored up. And then when that liver fully gets saturated, overly saturated with fructose, for instance, you start having all these up regulations of inflammatory enzymes called the the junk enzymes, the J, the J and K one enzymes, and you see a lot of inflammation and a fatty liver there, and you see it an ultrasound. And so that’s a common marker seen those elevated liver enzymes, and it’s good to be able to look at that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I don’t know if you’ve tested bloodwork much with people like in the middle of a protocol. But I’ve had a couple interesting cases where, while using binders, we’ve seen liver enzymes go up. And it could have been also parasite protocols and things like that, that were kind of interwoven with detox protocols. But I’ve seen liver enzymes temporarily go up during that. So I don’t know if you pay much attention to that. But I’ve seen it and they always go down as soon as it protocols over so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Even with some killing herbs, like worm woods, a common one that we may see a little bit of elevation and liver enzymes, people that are sensitive, some of the killing herbs, it could be a little bit of stress, is it just the herbs? Or is it the dead debris that is now mobilized from the killing of those microbes, it could be both. That’s where adding things like binders can be very helpful just to kind of put handcuffs on those critters and escorted out of the body versus kind of having it go back into general circulation. also adding an extra glutathione support can be helpful too. Just to really support and tone if I deliver those are very important too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well. And it’s common for you and I to use some sort of a liver gallbladder support too. So we may be throwing in like some extra taurine or Mathionine or beet powder artichoke. And there’s many, many things that I say milk thistle already NAC. So there’s a lot of stuff we can do. But yeah, I just figured I mentioned it. Because if someone’s listening and you happen to do blood work in the middle of a protocol, it’s possible that the levels may you may look at him and go, Oh, my God, my liver enzymes, but it will go back to normal relatively quick after killing protocols over.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Also, we may look at glucose, blood glucose is going to be on a metabolic profile as well. CMP panel, I don’t love it as much, because most people that are going to get a blood test and they’re getting pricked in the arm of the big needle, or they kind of stressed. Yeah, and so that the cortisol from that can really increase their blood glucose. So I like getting a really good blood sugar kit like this. And then you can measure your blood glucose during the day. So here’s my little kit here. And so I have I use the keto Mojo now because it measures ketones, so I’m a little meter, I have my little pricker here from my finger, and then I have the blood glucose and the ketones. So this one right here is the blood sugar. And this one here in the lighter blue, this is my ketones. So it’s kind of nice to have those. So I can test my blood sugar before I eat. And then I can do a one two hour three hour and play around with my blood sugar. The whole goal is the more you keep your blood sugar down after a meal and bring it back to baseline within two or three hours, the less insulin you’re making, the higher it goes up and the longer it takes to come back down, the more insulin you’re making. So it gives you kind of a good window how you’re responding to food.
Evan Brand: Yeah, what I wanted to point out is that you’re doing more functional analysis of glucose versus if you just go into your doctor once every six months, you get a morning fasted glucose, that’s just not enough information.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not because the whole goal while you’re just checking morning glucose is because you’re thinking your food, so out of whack, that your glucose is now elevated as a result. Now the problem is most people haven’t eaten in 12 hours. So for your glucose is still be out of whack. 12 hours later, the problem has to be pretty severe number one, and then number two, a lot of times it can be elevated not because of food, but because of stress hormones in the morning. And so the stress hormones, people say oh, I’m at 105. Yeah, but it just could be a good cortisol response in the morning called the dawn phenomenon that’s raising that glucose. That’s why you want to check it against your foods during the day. If you have a blood glucose issue. You’re going to see one and two hours later, it’s chronically elevated, and it’s taken a bit of time to come down. So that’s a better marker. Make sure you’re handling glucose okay.
Evan Brand: Yep. How about hemoglobin A1C, this is something that for diabetics, obviously, this is hopefully going to be regularly checked. But for your average person that maybe has some issues, A1C is probably not going to be on your standard blood panel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t love A1C, I used to like it. I don’t love it as much, I find that when people’s blood cells live longer, because they’re more healthier, they have more time to accumulate blood glucose. So the A1C it’s a part of the hemoglobin and they’re looking at the coding, the coding of glucose on the outside of the hemoglobin, right? So imagine, like, you know, when you, you know, you go up into your car during allergy season, you can see like a big fixed swath of like pollen on the car, they’re kind of looking at the swath of glucose on the outer part of the human lobe. And now the problem is, the longer your red blood cells are hanging around, the more time they have to accumulate that blood sugar. So it can be helpful to look at something. But if you’re, if you’re a little bit on the higher side, or like, let’s say 5.5 or so, let’s say under six, but 5.5. And up, it may just because your red blood cells are a little bit more healthier. So like, for instance, with my anemic women who may have a ton of blood sugar, right, a lot of carbs, because maybe they’re vegetarian or vegan. Guess what? When you’re anemic, your red blood cells die faster. So all my anemic women have A1C super low, like in the forest. And so it’s not going to be a great marker when your red blood cells don’t live that long, and we see it with our anemic patients.
Evan Brand: That’s a good point. Good point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If I see someone six or higher, yeah, it’s helpful, you know, but when you’re kind of in that subclinical zone, you’re going to typically have to go back to one, a meter like this, to really look at it. And then also look at your fasting insulin, which is a better marker, because that’s going to give you a better window, how much insulin you’re making frequently.
Evan Brand: Yep, good point, that analogy is perfect. The pollen on the car. So good job there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. And if you leave your car out there a lot longer, you’re gonna get a lot more pollen. It’s kind of like that, right?
Evan Brand: I’m always under five though, no matter what with a one C, I’m always right. 4.9. Somewhere in there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’m pretty low, too. I’m always like, right in the low fives. 5’1 5’2. But I’ve seen a lot of patients in my career that have that have really good diets that have tested their blood sugar, have good insulin, and they’ll still have a little bit higher on the a one C and I’m just like, yeah, it’s just it’s missing some people. That’s all. It makes sense. The question is, what’s the mechanism? And that’s what it is.
Evan Brand: Yep. Makes sense. You hit the you hit the dawn phenomenon. So you know, cortisol that may be run via blood, although we don’t really like blood cortisol too much. We really like more functional analysis of cortisol, like with urine or possibly saliva?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. And part of the reason why we don’t we don’t like it, is it because when you’re measuring a stress hormone, while creating a stress response, ie putting a needle in my arm, you may influence that a little bit, right? And so that’s kind of the reason why we don’t love that. And even if you’re like, Well, you know, do the adrenals make cortisol fast enough after the needle happens to show in the blood? Well, it’s not just that it’s the fact that you’re anticipating it happening. Therefore, you’re replaying that stress in your mind all the way up to the doctor’s office to go and then the elevator getting into the you’re already making that stress hormone while you’re anticipating what’s going to happen.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you go in the friggin lab with the scientific fluorescent lights above your head. It’s all awkward the quiet they got some like drug commercials on in the waiting room, Justin, and they call your name come on back. Yeah. So and, you know, also Not to mention, too, that that’s just a snapshot, right? I mean, that doesn’t tell us anything about what’s happening at two or 3pm when you’re complaining of that midday crash. So I really am not too interested about what happened at 8am. I’m really want to know what what’s going on at 2pm when you’re saying you need that third cup of coffee.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, yep. 100%. So it’s, it’s really important that you’re kind of on top of that. So I think we hit some good blood glucose stuff, we hit some liver enzymes we hit. I’m thinking here, we hit some of the electrolytes. electrolytes are good, too. So sodium and chloride are really good ones. Now when I see patients that have adrenal issues, you could easily have low sodium and high potassium, or you can just kind of have lower minerals all together. Now the serum is not going to be the best marker for testing minerals. So when you see your minerals out of balance, you know, it’s a big issue, but you could still have mineral issues. And the serum be okay, because it really matters what’s in the cell. Not necessarily what’s floating around in the blood. So think of interesting Imagine you’re in a pool, okay? The pool is serum. Okay, you’re in the little floaty. You’re in the little inner tube, right? So it’s you in the inner tube, right? You and the inner tube and the water in the inner tube that’s intercellular. The water outside of the inner tube is extracellular serum. So that’s kind of how you think of it. So when we test some of these nutrients, it’s better to get a sample of the water in the inner tube with you that’s intercellular versus the water outside of the inner tube. That’s serum.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and how do people get that? What is look like?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, you can like we can add like a red blood cell serum or a potassium serum on some of these panels, we may run like a spectracell, or a Nutri eval or an ion panel that looks at more intercellular nutrients, we may look at different tests that allow us to do that. But there’s not too many add ons for conventional testing like quest or labcorp. Outside of I seen a blood cell magnesium is good. You can do a potassium if you wanted. So there are a couple that you can do to get a window into that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I was gonna say I looked through all the options for the conventional labs, RBC magnesium, I think that was about it. I think that’s all I could find.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So yeah, not too much. But it’s something you know, because magnesium is a big one, right? And with magnesium RBC, we want to see a greater than five on that one, red blood cell magnesium greater than five. So that’s helpful. And then, of course, we mentioned magnesium surround, we want that greater than two. And then your minerals, you want them somewhat mid reference range, once we start going under 100 or so I think like sodium, it’s like 104 is kind of mid range. If you’re under 104, it could be a problem, potassium, I forget the exact ranges in it, but I want them all about mid range. In regards to the reference range.
Evan Brand: What do you feel about using conventional bloodwork to do like omega three omega six fatty acid panels, I know, there’s some Doc’s that are just so obsessed with all these ratios. But, you know, truthfully, if you’re doing the things that we’re discussing with our clients and patients for nutrition, you’re going to pretty much be optimized anyway. I don’t know what that would tell you. Besides, hey, maybe you need to do a little more this or that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s a great question, I think, look at the person’s food. Like someone could have really good diet, but let’s say the meat and the eggs aren’t pasture fed. Well, that could easily be the reason why your omega six to three is off a little bit. Or it could be that you know, you’re just doing too much plant fats, and those plants or from coming from, you know, omega six bass plants soy or canola or safflower. So if you’re doing good fats, like coconut oil, and olive oil and avocado stuff, which are monosaccharides are Yeah, so those are, yeah, those are MonEl fatty acids versus like, vs. poly, which is like a fish oil, right. And then so the fish oils, you have omega threes, right, which are going to be like, the ones that are we talking about that are going to be more on the anti inflammatory side, right? These are the Polly’s. And then of course, the Omega sixes are going to be more on the vegetable side. These are going to be also Polly’s but they’re going to have six bonds, these are going to be your safflower canola, these are going to be your soybean oil, all of your plant based fats, most in the most of your plant bait fast, to extract the fats from them with the olive oil or maybe an avocado, you tend to have to damage the fats, they tend to be more damaged, they tend to be more on the Omega six side. And when you get when you eat plants by themselves, you’re not getting that concentration of fats. And so you tend to not have that high omega six to omega three, when you’re doing just vegetables by themselves. Okay. And so we can just look at how much fish you haven’t per week, how much pasture fed eggs you have in a week, how much steak or meat that is grass fed, you haven’t per week, and then you can kind of look at it relative to what’s high on the Omega sixes like the knots and the seas and the refined vegetable oils. And you can kind of get a pretty good assessment of where you’re at, which is like kind of for one or less. So four times omega six to one is pretty, it’s pretty. Okay. And you can always run that omega three to six tests on the blood too. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: It does. Yeah, I just find that it’s not a huge needle mover. So I don’t run it too often. I mean, I think it’s cool to check in you could call it kind of a lie detector test as somebody says they’re doing everything that’s dialed in, but then you find out that Oh, they’ve been coconut grass fed steak, but it’s been in this healthy heart oil blend that they found on the shelf and it was a safflower canola combo. You’re like, Oh crap, then we missed it. And you got to get off of that stuff. So yeah, I mean, I was just gonna say so it’s not really a standard thing. For me at least you know, I’m not running into often with people but-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But it’s there it’s an option and then it’s something if someone wants to run we’ll run it and so we have the polyunsaturated which is the fish oil or on the omega three side, right. And then we also have things like flaxseed oil, but it has to get converted to the to the higher up fatty acid so you know, omega three fish, and then you get to get some mega three from cows that are grass fed as well.
Evan Brand: What about particle size on a lipid panel? So we talked about that briefly. It’s just a good add on that most people don’t do and our friend jack Wolfson, he discusses particle size and I think it’s something that more people are asking questions to their doctor about but it’s still very uncommon to run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: People that have a cardiovascular history. Just want to run it to begin with. I think it’s okay. I can almost always tell you what your particle sizes if you’re eating good health saturated fatty acids like coconut oil and grass fed butter. And you’re getting meats that are like good quality fish, good quality grass fed beef, egg yolks, you’re keeping a lot of your junky fats down a lot of the refined sugar down and a lot of the trans fats down, you’re going to have a large, you’re going to have a particle size A, which means large and buoyant and fluffy, right? Think of a like you want an ad on your test. And then you have the small dense atherosclerotic particle size B, think B for bad, and the B for bad, more trans fats, more inflammatory, processed vegetable oils, more refined sugar. And so with patients, I almost always can look at their diet. And guess what that will be to begin with. So if I do a dietary check and do a diet recall, what’s what’s the average day look like? And I look at that and I get a window, it’s pretty easy to predict that. And so we’ll run it for patients that have a cardiovascular history, and they just want to know, but for the most part, it’s not hard to predict it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And when you see it, are you just tweaking dial? Like, if you see a bunch of small dense particles, or are you coming in? Are you using any kind of like plant sterols or anything like that, to help with it are you just tweaking diet, and then it fixes itself?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It depends how acute the patient is. But if it’s if it’s not acute, meaning the patient’s not dealing with a heart issue right away, then we’re going to just tweak the diet, and that’s going to take care of it, we’re going to add an extra omega three fatty acids from fish oil, we’re tweaking the diet, we’re getting the carbs down, we may be adding extra nutrients to manage blood sugar and manage inflammation. And then usually within a month or so you’re gonna see a big change. After we retest. Awesome, yeah, usually once you get about 100 good meals, then you’re going to see a big shift. A good average person is doing about 21 meals a week, right? So three a day times 721. So four to five weeks, once you get 100 meals in, if you can get them close to in a row. Your body has a huge shift in physiology.
Evan Brand: It’s amazing how quick you can change stuff I knew. I mean, sometimes we get impatient because like what the detox piece like that takes longer. I mean, I’m here I am a couple years in detox and mycotoxins. I’ve still got some going on. So, you know, with that, it’s like, oh, man, you get impatient. But luckily, with the blood, it’s a quicker turnaround time sounds like.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally, man. It’s really important. So I think we hit some of the big markers today. I would say one other one for lipids. You know, I don’t really care if cholesterol is a little bit on the higher side, just I try to make sure the cholesterol to HDL ratio is ideally you know, four. So if the if your Triggs are sorry if your total cholesterol is 200, and your HDL is 60, or what’s that ratio to the math, put my calculator 200 divided by 60, that’s 3.3. That’s pretty darn good. Usually, when you’re under three and a half, that’s half the average risk factor. Okay? When you let’s say you’re at 242 40 divided by 60. On the HDL, now you’re at four. And so I like to look at the total cholesterol to HDL because HDL is what recycles cholesterol. Okay? So if you have good recycling lipoproteins, ie HDL, that’s a good sign. And then I’m also going to look at my trigger to HDL ratio, we want that under two. But if we can have a closer to one, that’s wonderful, what does that mean? Take your trig number, let’s say your trig numbers at 60. Let’s say your HDL is at 50. Well, what’s that? What’s that number? Well, we do 60 divided by 50. We’re at like, 1.2. That’s good. So we want to under two but closer to one’s ideal. That’s a really good marker. That’s my insulin resistance inflammation marker for my limits. So I’ll look at trade over HDL. That’s a really good marker.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you know, I talked to jack one time about the, the blood and I said, When do you start getting freaked out regarding total cholesterol, because if you talk to a conventional cardiologist, they’re they’re brainwashed on that 200 number. And he says that he’s got people up in the 450s, that he’s not worried about 1%, like total cholesterol being 450. And it’s not an issue. So he just talks about, like he said, ratios, inflammation associated with it, you know, then you get into more trouble. But I mean, the total number, I mean, he acts like it’s just minimally important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, on its own, I would be a little bit concerned once you start getting in the mid 300. Just because that’s that could be more hypercholesterolemia. And that’s not necessarily a diet thing, that’s more of a genetic thing where you’re making a lot more cholesterol. So I personally would get a little bit more concerned with that and I’d be monitoring that. But it’s hard to really jack up your cholesterol when you’re keeping inflammation down. Like I just did a blood test for my lipids last month, and my cholesterol my total cholesterol and you know what I eat man? I good fats, good proteins, good eggs, good fatty acids. And my total cholesterol was at 165.
Evan Brand: Whoa, yeah, I was like a 202.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, 165 my my trades were at 60. And my HDL is we’re at 50. So I had like a 1.1 1.2 ratio for trigger over HDL, which is great. And so most of the cholesterol, you’re gonna Ahead is gonna be made by your body. So when it starts getting too jacked up and your diets good, you know, we want to look at thyroid hormone, maybe that could be a big thing. And there could be a hypercholesterolemia genetic issue, and we can always run a genetic test for that to see what’s going on. And if that’s the case, what are natural things you can do to get your cholesterol down, you can do higher dose berberine to make sure your thyroids check, you can also do some potential plant sterols as well. But get that check. So my philosophy if it goes a little too high, I’m curious, I’m worried about the hypercholesterolemia piece.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I don’t mention that 400 number just to get people off the hook. I just thought it was interesting that that’s what he was saying. And he’s probably talking like, you’re in big trouble if you get to that point. But But anyway, so that’s rare, though.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s super like these are very, very rare situations, you know, sub 1% of the population are going to be there. My never seen it ever. I have two patients with that. But most people already know about it, because someone in their family already had been picked up previously. Yes. So most people already know what especially today, you know, maybe 3040 years ago, not as much, but people that have had those issues have already been picked up. They already know genetically, if it’s in their family, and then once you know genetically, if it’s in their family attend to get tested for it.
Evan Brand: Yep. Right? Well, let’s wrap this thing up. So as we mentioned, bloodwork is a piece of the puzzle. If you go to a practitioner, and they’re like I’m going to analyze your blood and tell you everything you need, they’re wrong, because you mentioned some of the clues into the immune section about parasite infections and all that. However, I will speak for you and say that you’re not going to depend on that bloodwork solely to identify parasites, you’re still going to be running comprehensive genetic DNA based school panels, you’re going to be running organic acid panels to look and deeper. So yes, you may look at those things. And I think it’s awesome that you gave us some insight into that, however, I’m not going to go to a guy who’s going to look at the blood and say, Yep, you’ve got parasites, let’s put this protocol together, I’m going to want more data. So blood is just part of that data. And it can be helpful, especially when you’re working with autoimmune people, because you and I like to look at these antibodies, and it’s very fun and satisfying. And it makes you look better when you could have a a woman come in with a TPO of 1000. And all you do is fix her gut and our TPO antibodies go down to sub 200. That’s exciting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, that’s huge. So I think today is very great, great podcast, because we’re talking about actual things. We want people to kind of like say, Hey, you know, what’s it like to be inside Dr. J, and Evans head, and this is kind of it. And everything that we look at, we’re kind of like a detective, we’re putting like checkmarks in the column over here that support us going in this direction, or going in that direction. So we add up all of our checkmarks, right, and we’re kind of create what that differential diagnosis is, and what tests we’re going to do to dive in deeper in in whatever those avenues where those check marks are adding up. So that’s kind of inside of our head, we’re walking through you through our thinking. And if you want to dive in and reach deeper, you know, into work with a practitioner, like Evan or myself, you can head over to EvanBrand.com, you can schedule a consult with Evan or myself at JustinHealth.com. And you can schedule we are available worldwide to help y’all with your functional medicine and natural health care needs. And if you want to get to the root cause we’re going to be the best person to to look at anything else you want to highlight here today.
Evan Brand: Maybe just one frequently asked question, Well, I’m not where you live. Does that matter? Well, in the US, it doesn’t matter at all. We can run like a blood comprehensive blood panel, we can run that anywhere now. We’ll try to help people internationally in regards to providing maybe some codes or things like that to help people. But at least for the us know, you location does not matter. We haven’t had any issue with that. I think New Jersey for a while was getting a little more strict. But beyond that, no. I mean, nationwide, it’s a piece of cake. So as we talked about the beginning, create a panel, send a requisition form to your email, print it go get your labs drawn, you’re done. It’s awesome. percent was in New York, or was in New York or New Jersey was one of them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, both.
Evan Brand: They’re both difficult. But was it for blood? Or was it for some of the functional or was it-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For blood, but there are some still some Malin fingerprick tests that we have accessible to deal with patients like that. So we still have options for them. Maybe not quite as much. And then if they’re near the Connecticut border or the Pennsylvania border, we have also options there too, but we still have some mail and stuff. That’s helpful.
Evan Brand: Cool, cool. All right. Well check out the sites JustinHealth.com. EvanBrand.com. We’ll be back next week. Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Have a good one, y’all. Take care. Bye.
Low Potassium, Adrenal Dysfunction Your Immune System | Podcast #288
For today’s live podcast, Dr. Justin and Evan Brand talk about Potassium and our immune system. Among other minerals, Potassium also acts great especially in our body, energy, mood, blood pressure and a lot more. Let’s dive into why potassium is important for our immune health. Check this podcast’s transcript.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
2:18 All about Potassium
9:11 Oral Supplementation
20:57 Foods with Potassium
27:11 Vertigo and Dizziness
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani, we are doing a live podcast here on potassium and your immune system. Potassium is an essential mineral. And it has major effects on the sodium potassium pump, how your cells function, energy, mood, blood pressure has a huge effect on the adrenal glands. I’m excited to dive in here with Evan Brand, Evan, how you doing today man? doing really well.
Evan Brand: So we were looking at some papers on this thing. And turns out a national survey found that approximately 98% not nine not 8, 98% of Americans are not meeting the recommended potassium intake. A Western diet is to blame as it favors processed foods over a whole plant foods such as fruits, vegetables, beans, and nuts. Everybody knows that the American diet is crap. And it’s not just the American diet. Right? This is the standard European diet. This is the standard Australian diet you know, kind of most developed first world Countries they’re doing too much. Too much potassium devoid food. And let’s tie that directly into what we were also looking at which is this paper this based on the names of these doctors. And yeah, actually it shows it right here. When Zhu Zi Yong ha, Province, China, so yeah, so this is a Chinese hospital and Chinese medical universities to study that came out of hyperkalemia and clinical implications and patients with Coronavirus and long story short people that had potassium deficiencies. They had severe hypokalemia, which is the technical term for potassium deficiency. And it said here that the patients responded well to potassium supplements. And they were inclined to recovery so they don’t say directly Hey, low potassium means you’re going to get the virus or low potassium means you’re going to be really sick, but they just talk about how, because of this whole Ace to enzyme thing that you and I’ve covered many times, and the whole relationship to the virus that one of the side effects of the issue can be low potassium, and if you’re already low potassium to begin with, then you can end up in potentially fatal shape, which is not good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% in potassium is very important because our sodium potassium pump is requires potassium. So what happens is, you have your cell, and then you have sodium inside the cell and you have potassium outside of the cell. And they do a little switcheroo ski, right. This is called the sodium potassium pump. The enzyme that’s involved in making that happen is ATP. And then you know, it’s an enzyme because of the word Ace next to an ATP ace. So ATP is important because ATP is generated from your mitochondria, right? We have glycolysis outside of the cell in the cytoplasm, and then we have our Krebs cycle, right? And we have our electron transport chain within the cell we generate 36 to 38 or so ATP from that that eight TP part of that ATP runs their sodium potassium pumps that ATP takes that sodium that’s in the cell and that potassium outside of the cell, they do a dance, they switch. So it’s three coming out to come in, right? Boom, just like that. And the cell needs that healthy fluid fluidity to work and to communicate. And if we don’t have that healthy fluidity, we’re going to have side effects. So one of the big side effects is we’re going to have muscle or nerve issues because potassium and sodium are very important for the muscles slash nerves to work, right nerves help control muscles, so very, very important there. You’re also going to see it with you’re going to see it with potential mood issues as well because sodium and potassium play an intricate role with the adrenal glands and part of the reason why people’s potassium gets low outside of a poor diet is going to be because of adrenal function. Now, typically with adrenals. Your dosterone starts to go low, which is a mineral corticoid that exists in The cortex to the adrenals. And what happens is as your dosterone starts going low, your sodium can start to drop. And as your sodium drops, sometimes your potassium can look like it’s not too bad, it can look actually a little bit high, but you could still actually have potassium issues because of the fact that you are your adrenals are weak and you’re pulling out a lot of your minerals. So muscle and cramps are going to be a big deal, weakness and fatigue because your nerves need that. Also, if you don’t have good sodium potassium pump issues, you probably have energy issues because the mitochondria healthy mitochondrial function for ATP is needed for that sodium potassium pump to work so potassium works better when there’s the ATP so that whole sodium potassium pump works. We talked about cramping as well because of the the muscles needing the wiring the fluid wiring sodium and potassium and minerals. So cramping is gonna be a big deal. We’re also going to have potentially digestive issues right? your bowel movements and your motility starts to Coming slower when your potassium drops, so we need healthy levels of potassium. So we have good bowel movements. Also heart palpitations, we need potassium and magnesium. So our heart could pump right our hearts a muscle as well. So if your heart skipping beats or beating harder or faster, that’s a sign of palpitations, which could be from that. And also just achy muscles, muscle breakdown, feeling tired and stiff, right? the breakdown of muscle was known as rhabdo. My license or my analysis, right? And that breakdown is going to be very much helped with good potassium levels, right, you’re gonna have less muscle breakdown, with potassium levels being adequate, of course, tingling and numbness issues are going to be a big one difficulty, you know, using your lung muscles mood stuff because of the adrenals as well. I’ll pause and give you a chance to comment.
Evan Brand: I’m glad you mentioned magnesium too, because, uh huh. You and I were kind of looking with a microscope today, right? We’re kind of spot picking right? One thing to talk about, but all these people that are deficient in potassium, I’m sure they’re going to be deficient in magnesium as well. I mean, we know how hard it is to get it from the food, even if it’s organic, because the soil is so depleted. So it’s a really common problem. And then on that whole mood changes, I just wanted to talk about that real quick. There was one study, and this wasn’t a necessarily a causation, but just a correlation study that we were looking at here. 20% of patients with mental disorders that came into this psychiatric ward 20% of them had potassium deficiency. So it’s not saying directly, the potassium deficiency caused the mood issue, there could very well be other things going on you and I’ve covered hundreds of times about gut infections, which could lead to mineral and electrolyte imbalances you hit on the adrenals. So, of course, as we know, when we hear something like that, we say, Okay, well, if you just give these people potassium, are they not going to have mood issues anymore? And the answer is, they could still have mood issues, even if they supplement Potassium, but it’s interesting and it’s something that often gets skipped. This is really low hanging fruit. Somebody could go to something very nuanced as this particular herb for this retrovirus or this bug, but the person’s just simply dehydrated and they’re not getting enough electrolytes, it could be something very, very simple like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and low potassium is so common, just like low magnesium is common. I think you said what 98% are going to have some kind of an issue.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I think this idea that yeah, I think this study I was referencing was probably just a survey where they looked at diet and figured out whether people were even getting the the the recommended daily amount, and 98% of people are not getting the recommended daily amount are already on the recommended daily intake. So I guarantee magnesium is in the same boat, probably 90 plus percent.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, 100%. I agree. And then also there are medications that are going to affect potassium, right. We know a lot of the blood pressure medications as well as things that like water pills or diuretics. So if you’re on a BP medication, right, there’s a good chance some of that’s going to be actually driving further potassium deficiency. So low potassium levels are super common because of that. Also, we’re going to have problems with potassium if we consume too much alcohol, right, alcohols gonna cause us to pee a lot more potassium out because things like diuretics are going to cause you to lose more minerals, right? diuretics basically activate a hormone that causes you to kind of continue to pee. And the more you pee with a diuretic in your system, whether it’s, you know, excess coffee, or even access alcohol, you’re going to pee out a lot of those minerals. So that’s kind of like vitally important, right?
Evan Brand: And even Yeah, and even tea, I mean, even tea could be to blame. I think herbal teas can be great, but there is somewhat of a diuretic effect of certainties as well. So if you’re just like sipping on tea all day and not drinking enough just straight water or our preference water with a pinch of salt or water with some electrolytes, actually to it, you know, this can happen easily. And this is not just a problem in athletes, people hear the word electrolyte and they think you only need that if you’re in the NFL No, you need electrolytes just to function.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, the problem with a lot of people with their potassium is, it’s hard to get too much if you’re taking it orally, right? Obviously, you go back to like the lethal injection people are actually you know, in the lethal injection in the prison system, people are actually being killed by potassium IV right or injection. Now, it’s hard to get too much potassium orally because some of the vomiting and from some of the vomiting and diarrhea side effects and the nausea side effects that you get from have actually having too low potassium. Well guess what, you actually have similar side effects when you go too high. So usually you get so nauseous, and you’ll either throw off or you’ll get diarrhea. So it’s very difficult. The only way to really do it orally is going to be with an oral supplementation. And you’d have to do a lot of it and all those symptoms would come into place. It’d be really high. The only way you You can get your potassium levels to the point where you’re going to be too high is going to be on an IV. And what they do actually on an IV to reverse potassium overdose is they do a bicarbonate infusion, bicarbonate actually neutralizes that high level of potassium. But some of the major causes are going to be diarrhea, right? So if you have a parasite infection or a gut infection that’s causing chronic loose stools, guess what? You may be having low potassium because of your gut. I have some patients that need five or six or seven grams a day of potassium supplementation, whether it’s because of a stress or a malabsorption issue, but all of their low potassium symptoms go away when they hit that level, meaning like the cramping, the twitching, the heart, the mood stuff all go away when they hit that higher level. So I mean, the goal is let’s fix the stress. So you’re not dumping the minerals as much let’s fix the gut. So we’re absorbing but, you know, I don’t typically don’t recommend doing more than one to two grams of potassium supplementally and we’ll do a good high quality keylight whether it’s a discoloration A or A potassium bicarb or we’ll do a potassium citrate like a new salt, which is a cheap source, and then we’ll try to plug in the recipe of the diet but if we have to go above, you know, we’ll do it incrementally and we’ll start looking for those low potassium symptoms to go away but alcohol is gonna be a big one, chronic kidney issues. uncontrolled Type One Diabetes will do it diarrhea, like we mentioned. So gut issues, diuretics is a big one. So if you’re on a diuretic on a blood pressure meds side, that could be a problem. sweating a lot. So if you’re sweating a lot, yeah, you’re gonna need a lot more minerals. Again how Gatorade was figured out I think it was the 1968 late 60s I want to say was the Orange Bowl one of these big bowl games the Florida Gators were actually playing halftime I think one of the exercise physiologist or PT people, trainers said hey, let’s get these electrolytes in and they had a kick butt second half and they just they killed it and won the game. And part of it was the electrolytes they put it and now we have all these things. Gatorade substitutes, but the real they were called Gator lights, right? Gator lights, not Gatorade. They tasted like absolute crap. So what you have now are a whole bunch of minerals with a whole bunch of sugar and dyes. Back then they just had the minerals and it tasted awful. But from a performance standpoint, they did really well because the other team didn’t have it. So they their muscles were functioning better. So sweating, not having enough full later B vitamins, having high amounts of aldosterone, whether it’s a tumor, or just our adrenals being overstimulated. Some antibiotics can actually have problems as well. And then vomiting vomiting too much can create low potassium too. And then obviously, just that junk food diet, we’ll talk about what it takes to have enough potassium in a minute.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and one thing too, that people miss out on a lot of these new companies, they’re doing a good job because they’re getting away from the corn syrup and the fake sugar and all that stuff, but you still do need based on some of the stuff we’ve looked at. I believe you need a little bit of glucose to help get potassium And your other minerals and electrolytes into the cell. So you’ll see if you look at they call it o RS oral rehydrating solution. This is like the military grade electrolytes. There has to be a little bit of sugar there has to be a little bit of a blood sugar spike, I believe it somehow opens the channel to let the electrolytes in. I’m not sure the exact you know, molecular level stuff that’s going on. But I’ve read into formulas that are just stevia or just monk fruit, some of these natural sweeteners that if they don’t affect blood sugar, you don’t actually get the benefit. So when you look at legit like military grade, electrolytes, they have a little bit of glucose spike associated with it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and the glucose is better, right? The problem is a lot of these places they have fructose, the fructose doesn’t target the muscles the same way as glucose does. So if you’re looking for an electrolyte formula, you you really want you can get the electrolytes by itself but then if you want if you’re doing a lot of sweating or a lot of glycogen depleting activity, whether it’s football or some kind of a sport that requires a lot of sprinting or running, then you’d want a formula that’s going to have more glucose in it for the sugar source, not fructose. fructose is a problem because it hits the liver more than the muscles. Glucose hits the muscles more than the liver. And like you mentioned, that helps open up that cell with the insulin and helps deplete the glycogen levels and helps that sodium potassium pump work better if you’re using a lot of glucose or if you’re sweating a lot, but if you’re not, and you’re just the average everyday person, probably getting the minerals in without the extra glucose is probably okay.
Evan Brand: Yeah, we talked about mold and detox and sauna and all of that, but I’m really shocked at how many people are doing sauna 234 or five times a week and they’re just drinking water. I’m like, Are you nuts? You gotta be doing electrolytes that is a critical component of detox in my opinion, is you have to make sure you’re replenishing and rehydrating because you’re losing a lot of minerals. You’re not just magically sweating out heavy metals and mold toxin, you’re sweating out minerals and electrolytes. You have to replenish those and you You were drinking a green juice earlier, I think you said your green juice had like 1200 milligrams per bottle or something crazy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, this is a great brand right here. It’s called evolution. They sell them in Austin and Selma, even in target now, which is kind of cool. Like, I like the fact that a lot of these healthier things are coming into kind of more mainstream box stores. But organic greens, I’ll typically drink the celery juice, but I’ve been doing the essential greens, they have the celery is the first ingredient so it’s still great. I love celery because of the minerals in there the electrolytes and then potassium is really high in celery, but it’s got cucumber, spinach, romaine kale, lime and parsley. And then they have a green devotion instead of lime. It’s got lemon, so they go back and forth, but there’s no actual fruit outside of the lemon or lime which is pretty low sugar. And this has got just alone It’s got I’m almost about 1200 milligrams of potassium. So I got about 25 to 30% all my potassium right here. So that’s pretty cool. So I just kill that after I have my really nice good breakfast with collagen and then I’m already a you know, a quarter of the Through my potassium needs for the day, which is great.
Evan Brand: Don’t you feel more like your thirst is quenched to like when I drink regular water compared to something like that. It’s just not as quenching to me as the good stuff, the green juices, they’re more thirst quenching. I’ll do like a little bit of electrolyte through a pinch in, like with some beet powder and stuff like that. And I feel great if I’m just doing filtered water and I’m not using aro I’m using like a carbon system even then though I water just doesn’t cut it for me. I like a little extra bang.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I think a lot of people what they’re really craving is they’re craving some water, but they’re also craving minerals, right? And so because they’re craving minerals, if there’s no minerals in there, yeah, you’re going to feel like you’re missing out on something, right? So that’s definitely a big part of what’s happening is your body’s craving the minerals, and if they’re not there, that’s a problem. Also, I’m pretty sure Cushing’s is going to be another potassium issue, right? Cushing’s and potassium is going to be a big problem as well. So now what does that mean? So the kidneys excrete large amounts of potassium when you make a lot of cortisol. So what does that mean? So If you have Cushing’s that’s kind of more tumor induced where the cortisol is so high probably because of some kind of a tumor. But what if you’re in between? Right? What if your your adrenals are just overstimulated, you’re not on the adrenal, you’re not on the Cushing’s disease side but you’re just making a lot of cortisol because of chronic stress. So it’s possible your chronic adrenal stress could be causing you to dump a whole bunch of potassium out. So that’s where when you’re getting stress, under stress, physical chemical emotional, maybe that gluten is causing the stress, right? You’re gonna probably need more potassium, more minerals. potassium and magnesium are the most common ones. It’s so hard to get them most people get enough sodium and chloride because of just it’s in their natural junk food. I don’t get they don’t get the good quality from like a good high quality sea salt or Redmond Real Salt, but they’re getting some it’s really the magnesium and potassium I’m seeing as the big big missing pieces and today we’re really focusing on potassium.
Evan Brand: Yeah, makes sense. I mean, think about what happens when you’re dealing with somebody that’s really stressed right? They may have issues with constipation, they may have issues with Sleep, they may have issues with their blood pressure, they may have issues with anxiety as you hit on earlier, potentially Heart, heart pumps. So all of that, to me sounds like stress induced mineral depletion, which then causes other symptoms and you’re stressed about your blood pressure being elevated. So then that cortisol dump and adrenaline dumps more minerals, and then it become more mineral deficient. So you see how this thing can get out of control. And it sounds really cliche and corny to say, well, stress did it but it really does. And it’s not just the emotional, it’s the gut stress. It’s all of it that we always hit on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Also people are talking about in the messaging. Well, what about if I’m in ketosis and I don’t have glucose to open the cell? Well, I mean, we’re just talking about with x with extra exercise, right extra exercise, extra sweating. If you’re doing a lot of glycogen depleting kind of movement or exercise, you’re probably going to want to do some type of a glucose kind of refeed the night before the movement. And a lot of athletes who do keto still have a punctuated kind of glide And reefy the night before just other tapping their muscles out, because your muscles can hold anywhere between 250 to three to 400 milligrams or grams of glucose or glycogen, right? glucose in the muscles is glycogen, it’s stored, right? That’s the storage form of glucose in the muscles. So a lot of people, they’ll be in ketosis most of the time, they’ll do a refeed the night before, that way they have access to that glucose The next day, and again, depending on how depleting or how long you’re exercising, you probably want a nice little bit of a glucose, electrolyte drink. And again, that’s not most of the time, that’s going to be just more timed up according to exercise and kind of what your metabolic needs are. But for most people, you know, a good natural Gatorade source, guess what coconut water, got a little bit of glucose, a little bit of sugar in there, and it has a lot of potassium, so that can kind of be mother’s nature’s natural kind of Gatorade. It just depends on what you’re doing. If your kids playing football and sweating a ton, they may need a little bit more than that. You’re going to have to just feel it out. See what works. Test it on your own when your practice To sing and playing and see how you feel with that you may not need pure coconut water, maybe just diluted half and a half with a really good clean mineral water. And then you have a little bit of glucose, a little bit of extra potassium plus the other minerals working for you.
Evan Brand: Yep, you want to hit a little bit of the diet piece. Yes, you and I were kind of looking at some of this before you pointed out. Interestingly, and we’ve probably talked about this in previous but if you look at 100 grams of food as a measurement, the potassium per 100 gram of avocado is higher significantly than bananas. If you look at a full avocado, versus a full cup of banana, which maybe is a full banana, you’ve got almost double in the avocado. So you know as a kid, I remember thinking potassium banana, and that’s just kind of this thing you grow up with. But in reality, there’s things that are much much higher like beet greens takes the cake with number one here. 1300 milligram per cup of potassium that is insanity.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So most people don’t get it. So if you’re sitting Get in there. And you’re on keto, right? Well, what are the biggest easiest things you can do? Well, beet greens is number one. Okay? What’s number two salmon, high quality fish that’s per hundred grams. So what’s 100 grams? 100 grams is about 3.3 ounces ish. Let me just double check that hundred grams and ounces. I’m pretty sure that’s what it
Evan Brand: sounds about, right? Because it says here, potassium per six ounce filet of salmon.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So 3.5. So what does that mean? So Alright, so if you’re keto, right, and you want to really be on top of this, or you’re keeping your carbs down, what does that mean? That means Okay, if I eat seven ounces of meat, seven ounces of fish, I’m at 1300 milligrams of potassium, boom, you’re right there. And then you throw in some beet greens with it right? That’s three ounces worth right hundred grams. You’re at another one gram almost. And then guess what? You cut up an avocado with that. Right big avocados. Another 500 I’m sorry, another per avocado. You’re about one gram per full avocado you’re set. Right?
Evan Brand: I want to look up cassava because I love cassava. And what if you like did some guacamole with like cassava chips? I wonder if we’re getting any?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, so we could do like Yuka in potassium because Yuka in protect you guys same thing as cassava. Yeah. So one cup of cassava is 558 milligrams, boom.
Evan Brand: So because our chips and I mean now, some would argue, well, you know, the, the baking process and whatever of the chips, okay, whatever, but it’s still better than zero.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, but a lot of times if you don’t bake it or cook it, you’re not going to be able to get the nutrients anyway. Like, if you look at broccoli, raw versus broccoli steamed, you’re going to see the nutritional value in the content goes up once you cook it, because then the fiber is broken down so you can actually access some of those nutrients.
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So cooking a lot of times can make certain nutrients more bioavailable, too. It’s not Oh, cooking bad all the time.
Evan Brand: No, I’m just thinking. I’m just thinking of the one devil’s advocate out there saying oh well you’re eating. you’re advocating Eating, you know, chips fried and avocado oil. It’s like Yeah, I am. I think it’d be great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s okay. I think it’s fine. I mean, don’t make it a staple. But I mean, I think it’s if you’re gonna have something like that it’s all about not going to the place in your head about like, Hey, what do you have to cut out versus Hey, what can I substitute? When you have a substitution mindset versus the cutting out mindset? One, you feel a lot more free and you feel like you’re not missing out on stuff because there’s always a good healthy stuff the tuition option that works. So let’s let’s kind of just create a simple day like what does a day of potassium look like? So off the bat, you know, on the vegetable side, one cup of you know, your typical vegetable greens will be anywhere between 500 milligrams to about 800 milligrams depending on the vegetables, right? Like one avocados gonna be about a gram, right? One cup of Swiss chard is gonna be about a gram. So you’re really at the top with those. One cup of spinach is about 840 milligrams, and then you have on the lower side, which would be like broccoli and brussel sprouts are closest 500 milligrams. So just to kind of give you a sample day here, let’s say we start out with a full avocado, boom, you got one gram of potassium so that now you’re like you’re like really on the way there. If you do a serving of fish like a good six ounce serving of fish, now what? Well now another gram is added, right? No problem. All right, and then now you’re at about now you’re at about two grams. And then if you throw in a green juice like this, you’re over three. And then if you have a serving of squash, or even white potato, or sweet potato, well now you’re at another 500 to 800 milligrams. Okay, now you’re at 35 to 3800 milligrams. And then you just need about four more servings of vegetables. And most people when they have veggies, they’re probably going to have two servings at a time, right? They’ll probably have close to a gram anyway. So you need about, I would say about four to six servings of a good quality green vegetable, you’re probably going to need one full avocado, and then one full serving of a good quality fish. And then you’ll get right about there and then you can always add in an extra avocado, you could always add in a little bit more fish, you could always add in a little bit more beet greens or green vegetables to get you the rest of the way there which is about 4500 to 4700. And then if you’re doing a lot more sweating, you could always throw in some coconut water. So I would say about six servings of green vegetables one full avocado, a good serving of fish and then you can always plug and play coconut water or banana according to what your metabolic needs are. What do you think?
Evan Brand: Yeah, and yeah, very good. And you didn’t mention any nuts which is another easy low hanging fruit so if you can get away with doing like pumpkin seeds, you can get a ton there if you do almonds or almond butter or you put a scoop of almond butter in a smoothie, you can get some there pistachios are super high and then I was looking on this other foods like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: potatoes potatoes are huge so it means depending white potatoes if you’re trying to keep low carb or autoimmune find Nick’s that go to a squash or a potato but potatoes are very, very high in potassium. He will forget that.
Evan Brand: Yep, yep. I was looking on this nutrient density chart. Whey Protein is number four 100 grams away, you’re getting over two grams 2200 milligram potassium 400 grams away. So if you can tolerate a good high quality Grass Fed Whey protein, that’d be easy. Think about if you made a smoothie with some greens, some whey protein in there, he threw some pumpkin seeds and a scoop on the butter, man, you’re set.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How many milligrams in the way?
Evan Brand: 2200 for 100 grams of, you know substance 2200 potassium.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: okay, I put 400 grams in the whey protein. Okay, so your typical servings probably like 25. So how many again, per 120 200? Okay, so if you’re doing maybe 25 or 30 grams of protein, which is what most people do in a scoop, I mean, you’re probably about what 500 milligrams.
Evan Brand: I’m going to look up I’m going to see what the serving size is because you and I use a couple professional grass fed powders. Let me see what the what it looks like. Yeah, so so one scoop Typically is 30 grams. So exactly, exactly, yeah, so you could almost call it you could almost call it one third then so you know 2200 divided by 600
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ish 656 50 ish. Okay, that’s cool. Someone else also asked about the vertigo and dizziness Yeah, low potassium can cause that vertigo and dizziness kind of feeling. So we kind of gave the general recommendation of 45 to 4700 milligrams of what you need per day on the potassium side. Most people aren’t hitting it, you’re getting six to eight servings of green vegetables, a high quality serving a good fish and some potassium and maybe I’m sorry, potassium from a full avocado or a green drink or some extra say starch, squash or sweet potato or white potato, you’re gonna be there at about 45 to 4700 milligrams. Most people may need more if they’re sweating, or if they’re under a lot of adrenal stress. So you may want to think about supplementing, if you’re still doing a great job on your food and you’re not there. You may want to fill in the gap, or you may want to just try it out. Add in a couple more of these nutrient dense foods that Evan and I just hit, and see if that fixes the issue. So, a lot of times people have these low potassium symptoms and they see it go away the BR and all I see is you’re going to see a lot of heart stuff, and a lot of muscle cramping stuff, those are going to be big things. So if you see the heart start to get better or the cramping get better. That’s an easy sign that you’re on the right track.
Evan Brand: What do you think, Kevin? Well, I think this is fun, and it’s something that can’t be ignored. So please address this, work on this, tweak it and see how you feel, I definitely feel better. I feel in a better mood. I feel more energetic when I’m staying regular with getting enough electrolytes as a whole. So I think he could be a game changer. And we can run some of these analyses on your body. You and I kind of talked before we hit record about how the blood really doesn’t change much. So looking at serum potassium may not be the best. So there are some other panels that we can look at, but as a whole, when we’re looking at organic acids testing and stool testing and we’re looking at gut infections a lot of times We can infer just based on observation symptoms, and what else is going on that you probably got a new issue. So the good news is, you can fix this, it’s relatively cheap to free to fix it outside of just tweaking the diet a bit at the grocery or farmers markets, but you can make it happen and make a big difference.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now, someone else chimed in about the evolution drinks and the plastic. I’m not too worried about the plastic with these, these are all cold pressed. Alright, so they’re cold pressed so that the juice that’s put in here is cold and these are refrigerated right away. So you’re gonna have leaching of plastics more when it hits UV light and or higher heat. So not now not that concerned about plastic plus, these things have a short shelf life. So it’s not like the the juice is sitting in there for like a year. It’s just sitting in there a very short amount of time it’s not being exposed to UV light or high temperatures going to being refrigerated, right. So you got to keep all that in mind. So I think if someone’s worried about the plastic, I think the extra extra nutrients that’s in there, it overlays any risk from the planet. Plus you’re not getting the heat you’re not getting warm substances and you’re not getting the UV light so I think the plastic is isn’t as big of a deal versus like a dishonor water that sits in there for a year or two and who knows if it’s going to be exposed to light when it sits out back the the the convenience store or the supermarket thought-
Evan Brand: That’s what I’m thinking when you go to the gas station. You see the guy taking a smoke break you got the palette of dishonor water sitting there getting blasted by the sun on 100 degree day and then he goes and puts the water in the shelf at the gas station. So yeah, I think you got to choose your battles, right so I mean, the other argument would be well, if you were too busy this morning, you’re working with the kids you got to jump on here with me you got to go into clinic after this. You might not have got that green juice and you would have had zero minerals and zero potassium and zero greens because you didn’t know plastic because you would have tried to go for a blender instead. So you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly plus the higher quality grocery stores like Whole Foods for instance, they got a big dock the truck just goes right up to its full containment and some of the stores refrigerating it. If you’re going to a gas station and you’re kind of limited, some gas stations have the Pellegrino so you could always go by glass at the gas station. That’s probably a safer way but I’m not necessarily worried about the plastic with that but in general, a lot of sulfur in here anyway which will help you to toxify any lingering estrogen. So if you have the option I think it’s worth it.
Evan Brand: All right, well, let’s wrap this thing up. I think we covered a lot if you want to reach out clinically, Dr. Jay and I we work around the world with people we’re very grateful we’re very blessed for the opportunity to help you guys so thank you so much for not only commenting on these live videos, but of course just being there clinically because you help us learn we learned so much from working with people one on one way more than you learn in any book or any study is seeing how do people feel Hey, when you recommended this or that my energy went up 20% we love stuff like that it’s addicting for us. So we’re very very grateful and if you do want to reach out clinically, please check out Dr. Justin at Justin Health. JustinHealth.com and me, Evan brand at EvanBrand.com and we’ll be back next week to talk more.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent chatting with you guys. And if you enjoyed the content put your comments down below really want to know what you guys think. And if you have any future podcast recommendation topics we’d love to see it as well and sharing is caring. Get this to your families and friends and people that can use this information to help take control of their health. Alright guys, enjoy the fabulous holiday weekend. Take care y’all. See you later. Bye
Evan Brand: Bye.
How to Boost Nitric Oxide and Oxygenation in the Body – Can Help with Viruses | Podcast #280
We have another episode of Beyond Wellness Podcast. In this episode with Evan Brand, we discuss nitric oxide, how nitric oxide works and helps our system, as well as improve oxygenation in our bodies. As we all know, many viruses can attack our lungs, making it harder to breathe. And on the functional medicine side, how does Nitric Oxide work in preventing viruses? Read the whole transcription below to find out!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
8:48 Nitric Oxide
16:56 Kidney Disease, Kidney Stress
27:35 Functional Medicine is Important
33:54 Boost your Nitric Oxide Production
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All right, and we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house. Today we’re going to be chatting about nitric oxide and vasodilation and how we can improve oxygenation in our bodies. Evan Brand, how are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: I’m doing really well. Let’s talk about the context of this topic. There was a video that you and I watched over the weekend, about a doctor up in New York City ICU unit. And he reported it was like a six minute video. He reported what he was seeing in the ICU, and saying that what the official narrative of the corona virus is saying and what it’s causing, versus the reality in the ICU looks different. This guy’s name here is Dr. Cameron Kyle side L. And the title of his video was does Covid19 really caused ARDS which is acute respiratory distress syndrome. He talks about here that he believes that we’re treating the wrong disease. And this is all quoted here, and that we must change what we were doing if we want to save as many lives as possible. And he goes into this video about how, what he’s seeing that with the ventilators, there’s all this talk about ventilators, ventilators, ventilators, he sees that it’s actually causing more damage because the muscles of these patients he’s seeing are actually working perfectly fine. And he’s saying what he is seeing does not look like pneumonia at all. Because the the way that the muscle function is looking, it’s it’s not pneumonia, and he says that it’s something else creating this hypoxia and he says something along the lines of it appears that these patients were dropped off at the top of Mount Everest, and they had no ability or no time to adjust to the high altitude. So he says this is almost like a high altitude sickness, and therefore the treatment that we are now implementing across the country and across the globe in the ICU is not properly addressing that hypoxia.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, exactly. So hypoxia is basically lower oxygen levels in the blood. Now people at home can test that by getting a pulse oximeter. You know, once you start dropping below 90, I think a lot of these doctors are more like mid 80s to low 80s is more concerning. And I think you see even some of these people being in the 70s while in the hospital, so there’s some ways that we can kind of qualify and quantify it with a pulse ox, which is, which is really interesting to know. Now, the question is that ER Doctor, his video is quite interesting. We kind of walked away from it, where he kind of implied that the ventilator should be used, but they should be used kind of in a different manner. And that was really interesting because he didn’t really say how it should be used differently. So if any er doctors or people who are medical professionals that have experience using vents, I’m just curious right down below what kind of different setting options could be used. If this is not necessarily an acute respiratory distress. Issue, this is more of a hypoxia issue. How could that be used differently to help that situation? So I’ll pose that question for any of our medical allopathic listeners.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that would be awesome if we could get some answers because he didn’t provide the answers there. He just said, hey, what we’re doing, I think, is actually killing people. He didn’t say, flat out x equals y or X causes Y. But basically, long story short that the ventilators may be resulting in more deaths, because there’s too much pressure on the lungs because the person is breathing just the way they should plus the extra pressure of the vent is just too much and it’s damaging people. So-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I heard that a doctor an anesthesiologist chime in and say, What about a hemo lung, and hemo lung is interesting because basically it’s going in at the carotid artery level going down to the heart and hemo lung is used for like lung transplants and heart surgeries. Basically, it takes the blood out of the heart, brings it into this little device and it re oxygenates it and then brings it back into the heart. So then when it when it goes up to the to the left atrium down to the left ventricle, it’s already oxygenated. So that was interesting because then it takes away all of the the breathing and the pressure on the lung and it oxygenates the blood right at the heart level, which I thought was interesting. And maybe that technology, maybe it’s too invasive. Maybe there’s not enough of those devices. And we’re already short with the events. And maybe that’s just more of an impossible feat. So anyone that has experience with the hemo lung, I’m really curious to know if that could be a good option to decrease the hypoxia as well.
Evan Brand: Yep, yep. So all that backstory leads into today’s conversation, which is, well, what are things that we can do on our end, maybe if you would call it preventative? Now what I say that what we’re going to talk about today is something that you would want to implement if you were in an ICU unit and try to save your life by taking extra beet powder, for example. No, that’s not what I’m going to say at all. But I’m hoping that just by learning about some of these mechanisms in the body, you can become more educated and then you can have strategies that you implement on a daily basis to boost yourself up. Increase the cell to cell communication that happens the vasodilation that happens the proper regulation of inflammation that happens the neuro transmission that happens there’s a lot of stuff that is related to nitric oxide. So let’s give some people just a little bit of background on nitric oxide, kind of how it works. And then we’ll dive into you know what goes wrong. If you are even just aging, just aging alone reduces oxide, we found.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And because we’re kind of talking about some of the corona virus stuff, right. And there’s some first line therapy that that’s really promising, ie the, the hydroxychloroquine or the chloroquine, which is which is interesting. And as well as combining it with the azithromycin and the zinc. And if you notice, a lot of people out there aren’t talking about the zinc component in this whole thing. So I think that is important. Also, if you’re in the hospital, I’m not sure what kind of requests you could make to some of these conventional Doc’s about intravenous nutrients. So I’m in the hospital, because this is acute which again, 90% asymptomatic, so I personally say If you have a 90% chance of being asymptomatic, well just be healthy enough and boost your immune system enough now, so you’re in that asymptomatic camp. But if I’m in the hospital right now, I’m going to be asking for IV vitamin C, I’m going to be asking for IV glutathione. Because a lot of these antioxidants are actually shown to improve nitric oxide levels to improve the effects of nitric oxide in the body. And then also we could supplement on vitamin E. And, you know, various plant based bioflavonoids and polyphenols are all going to be great because they’re really high in nitric oxide, nitrogen, and they’re also really high in a lot of antioxidant compounds. Just kind of as a side note, hey, you know, what kind of requests can you make? The problem is conventional medicine is so one track, it’s hard to kind of come in there and do a different standard of care than the conveyor belt standard of care that’s at your fingertips.
Evan Brand: Right, yeah, my grandmother was in the hospital for a fib atrial fibrillation. I spoke with the cardiologist about using motherwort Which is an herb that’s great for the heart, and it has some papers on it being shown to help reduce the incidence of a fib or the severity of any heart issues. And he just completely literally rolled his eyes at me and said, No, Evan, we have our medications in place. And I’m like, yep, she was on these drugs. She’s still in a fib. You’re not fixing the issue with your drugs, you’re not fixing the root cause. And they just blew me off and fed her her lunch, which I told you was a peanut butter sandwich with high fructose corn syrup in the cardiac department.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the problem with a fib which is like the hearts not being in sync with its electrical contractions, a lot of that has to do with like, inflammation and high levels of insulin and not having good adequate levels of electrolytes. But a lot of times, they’ll put you on blood thinners, or like a beta blocker, or things like that. And that a lot of times can decrease the minerals and actually make the underlying mechanism worse, and then you’re kind of more reliant on the drug forever. And that’s the problem with a lot of the drugs is they actually the root cause mechanism is really not addressed. And then now the drug is needed more because that underlying root cause is actually made worse.
Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s crazy. So that’s pretty much what’s happened. And it’s really sad to see because, you know, there’s good strategies out there that you can implement. But as you mentioned, it’s kind of a one track, one track that you get of treatment and beyond that, and that’s also what this doctrine that video talks about what the virus issue is that because of the dogma associated with medical doctors, and he is one, that they’re not really willing to go outside of the box. So it’s sort of just here’s the protocol we’re doing. you implement this, but he’s saying you put people on the ventilator. 75 plus percent of them are dying. So if you get to that point, it seems that it’s just not working. But you can’t really switch the protocol because that whoever is above making the decision said that’s the protocol. So, anyhow.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, exactly. So we’re going to be chatting about nitric oxide, which is basically nitrogen oxide and it’s double bond that kind of combines it and the 1998 Nobel Prize in Physiology Medicine was actually kind of looking at nitric oxides role in helping with cardiovascular disease. And so that’s very, very important because we’ve known for about 20 plus years this is a really powerful compound. And don’t confuse it with nitrous oxide. Nitrous oxide is N2o both are gases, right? nitric oxide is going to be the vevo dilator opens the blood vessels that’s n-o double bond. And 2-o is nitris. And that’s the laughing gas that though a lot of times they’ll you do when you’re getting your to pool they’re drilling a cavity at the dentist’s office so don’t, don’t confuse the two of those. And again, some big building blocks to make nitric oxide are going to be a lot of the plant based nitrogen compounds like Evan mentioned, beetroot powder is very powerful in helping to provide more nitrogen and building blocks. Also a lot of your green leafy vegetables so a lot of your carrots are a lot of your salaries and to be really powerful out of your lettuces. Spinach, arugula, a lot of your green vegetables, celery in the beet root. Those are amazing, amazing compounds to help provide those extra nitrogens to improve nitric oxide levels in the body.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And people may say, Well, why powder? Why does it have to be a powder it doesn’t, you could eat just straight beets if you want to. But for me, I’ve had much better benefit and it’s a little easier for me, I don’t have to go and cook anything if I could just open up some organic, non hybridize beet powder. I’ll throw that in with a scoop of my electrolyte formula and drink it down. And these, these vegetables that are high in nitrates are what allow you to naturally increase the levels. So it works in the erectile dysfunction department as well. Many people have heard of nitric oxide if they’ve ever had an ED issue and they try to go on some of these nitric oxide boosters for that issue and it can help. I don’t know if the mechanism of some of the conventional drugs like five I work on nitric oxide at all, but I do know that beet powder and other amino acids that you could use arginine citrulline, these kind of things, a lot of them are in bodybuilding type formulas that those can help increase blood flow quite a bit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know Viagra was originally created in that was designed to help with angina with heart pain. And so yeah, it does. Things like Viagra are going to work on localized release of nitric oxide for sure. Yep, that’s definitely part of the mechanism. Now, the question is, there’s nutrients that run that, right, so the problem with the drug doesn’t provide any nutrient to have that pathway run better. So it’s kind of working by overriding underlying mechanisms, right? underlying mechanisms that are needed. So the problem over time is you tend to have to increase the dose. So whatever drug you’re using, because you weren’t fixing the mechanism, that’s why adding amino acids like citrulline and arginine are going to be helpful because Those are part of the building blocks to make some of these hormones or some of these, let’s just call them hormone like peptides to work in your body. And then also the building blocks in regards to nutrients. So a lot of these greens vegetables we talked about. And then the benefit of like a beetroot powder is just the concentration, you can just get a lot more of it in your body versus eating a couple of pounds of beats. You can kind of get it in a way that’s more therapeutic and easier to put in like a general generalized smoothie, if you will.
Evan Brand: Yep. And so why, why this conversation? Well, because not Justin and I did a whole podcast on some of the underlying causes, and some of the comorbidities associated with the virus and if people are ending up in really bad shape, or if it’s a fatal case, there’s a lot of these comorbidities him and I were talking about this before we hit record diabetes is massive, massive, massive, massive comorbidity put you at increased risk, also hypertension. And so guess what? Nitric oxide has a role and vasodilation therefore, if you have low nitrogen oxide production, which happens just as you age, just the aging process alone, you have reduced No, therefore, more likely to have hypertension. Hypertension is in the top five of the comorbidities of people that are in bad shape with this virus. So if you’ve got high blood pressure, you are at more increased risk. And we’ve got a study here 2014 Journal of Clinical hypertension, a single administration of an oral active, no supplement, decrease blood pressure, improve vascular compliance and restored endothelial function in patients with hypertension. So are we saying hey, this is going to get you off the hook? Not necessarily but to me, it sounds like a really, really good tool to have in the toolbox.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting. Yep. Very interesting. Also, we know that things like low thyroid production, low thyroid hormone, are associated with things like low nitric oxide or low decreased nitric oxide synthase, which is part of the enzyme that makes nitric oxide and Evan kind of alluded to it earlier there was an artist In the New England Journal of Medicine that came out within the last two weeks that looked at a lot of these coronavirus patients up in Seattle area, and they saw almost 60% of them had type two diabetes or some kind of pre diabetes. Now why does this matter is high levels of insulin are going to impact your immune cells from gobbling up bad bacteria or viruses, right? We know Corona virus is a virus. And so phagocytosis is the natural process that your lymphocytes or neutrophils and monocytes may engage in to gobble up these viruses. So high levels of blood sugars and increase insulin. That’s gonna make it hard to gobble these critters up, but we know people that consume or that have high levels of insulin, what are they consuming? They’re consuming a lot more processed sugar, high fructose corn syrup, all those things, people that are consuming excess fructose, right? high levels of fructose are going to decrease nitric oxide, endothelial synthase, that’s the enzyme that helps make nitric oxide and your blood vessels so how Having high amounts of carbohydrate and lots of processed refined sugar. One is going to impair your immune system, which is going to make coronavirus, a bigger deal, which then will create that hypoxia. But number two, it’s going to decrease the enzyme activation of nitric oxide in your body.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s crazy. And we were talking about the age factor. So if you’re older as well, right? Originally, we were looking at all this stuff from Italy, we were saying, Oh, well, this is a an issue affecting older people. It’s also been found to affect younger people. Everybody says, well, oh my god, oh my god. Now it’s the young people affected too. But think about how many young, diabetic overweight and obese people we have in America. I mean, we are the most obese country in the world. So I don’t think it’s fair to look at these headlines and say, Oh my God, this guy was 33 years old because we have the most obesity and diabetes. in that age group. Anywhere I know India, the diabetes rates are going crazy high there as well. But that’s not the point. The point is that when you look at the headline you see younger people are dying. That’s not actually apples to apples, a younger person who is on a paleo template is going to be, in theory much healthier and less prone to severe complications if they have good blood sugar. And you talked about the the amino acids a little bit so like arginine and citrulline. Those are things that you and I use supplementally what happens is the your kidneys, I didn’t know this is actually something I learned today. The kidneys are what turned the citrulline into arginine. And then the arginine is the precursor to nitric oxide. And so when you throw extra supplemental amino acids in there, you’re just helping this whole pathway run better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s really interesting, right? Because so you’re talking about the the citrulline gets converted by the kidneys to origin is that correct? That’s right. And we know that guess what, guess where 80% of all kidney disease comes from?
Evan Brand: Hmm, I don’t know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It comes from diabetes.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, Makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So high levels of blood sugar via excess fructose and crapple hydrates in our diet, that’s gonna put a lot of kidney stress. And I’m going to guarantee that with more stress on your kidneys, you’re going to have a harder time converting some of those amino acids like the citrulline to arginine and Argentines and help make that nitric oxide which is going to help open up your blood vessels. And so I wouldn’t be surprised the more kidney stress you have from excess carbohydrates, sugars slash fructose, and I’m not gonna I’ll go out in the limb because we already know the mechanisms there Evan, we know that issues like mold and heavy metals could also decrease nitric oxide and I wouldn’t be surprised if part of that mechanism is through stress on the kidneys. What do you think?
Evan Brand: Oh, it makes total sense. I mean, I had kidney pain. I know that was one of my symptoms. When I first got exposed to mold. I thought it was just like adrenal area but looking back it makes more sense that it was actually kidney so I did take some kidney support formulas astragalus and Agaricus, mushroom and some other things to help boost kidney function. Symptoms luckily went away. And also, one of the symptoms of mold exposure is increased urination, especially at night. So we talked a lot of people that talk about their they’re up in the middle of the night peeing all the time. That was a mold symptom. And I used to have it I was up four or five times a night peeing. And I no longer have that issue after detoxing and then supplementing with different nutrients for the kidney. So yeah, I think you’re, you’re definitely spot on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And I’m looking at a couple of studies here. There is a connection between low levels of thyroid hormone and low levels of nitric oxide and this one study here, that’s a review on the topic. But they’re definitely talking about more, you know, more studies on humans are needed, but there’s definitely a connection with adding in thyroid hormone and helping to improve nitric oxide levels. So this is kind of like the chicken or the egg thing. So I look at a lot of nitric oxide, things are like more downstream, meaning it’s like more of an effect than a cause. So we’re talking about it here. Because it plays a really important role with oxygenation and the corona virus and some of the disease symptoms that may occur. But people that are listening to this that are functional medicine people, we may be inadvertently helping your nitric oxide levels just by moving to a paleo template. By helping you break down your protein, maybe you’re getting more citrulline than your diet. By looking at your thyroid, maybe you have an autoimmune thyroid issue, right, maybe your thyroid is getting destroyed because you’re eating a whole bunch of gluten and dairy and processed food, and that’s exacerbating your leaky gut and exacerbating your autoimmune issue which could then be affecting your nitric oxide levels. So a lot of times, we may be fixing your nitric oxide by helping your thyroid or by fixing your gut permeability through a gut infection or by assessing mold in your home or heavy metals in your mouth or your environment. So, you know, you don’t have to break out fancy supplements every time a lot of times we may be doing this just via diet and other what I call upstream Functional Medicine system assessment to get to the root cause of the system’s upstream because above below inside out, if we deal with the system’s up here, the symptoms downstream, may improve. And a lot of times that may be through regulating nitric oxide through other upstream things not connected.
Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s crazy. I mean, we always talk about how everything’s one big spiderweb and it’s all connected. But the more we dive into these things and pull things apart, it really is true. One paper here we had showed that roughly 80% of dietary nitrates come from eating vegetables. And so beets are at the top of the list of being rich and nitrates. You’ve got the leafy vegetables, as you mentioned, like you’ve got a rubella chard, spinach, you’ve got broccoli, you’ve got turnips, cucumbers, carrots, cauliflower, and then also you mentioned from the protein as well so, grass fed beef, wild caught fish, pastured eggs, potentially raw cheese’s if you can tolerate them. Pumpkin Spice seeds, sunflower seeds, even spirulina, these are all going to be high and arginine and that’s going to help you as well. So this is pretty cool. I mean, it’s watermelon was on the list too, which is interesting watermelons really high, apparently in citrulline. So Mm hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. I wouldn’t be surprised to if we find a connection with thyroid issues and a lot of the oxygenation thing with the coronavirus in this one meta analysis. I think this is powerful because we know nitric oxide and it’s a benefits on cardiovascular disease. Right? We could probably ask our friend Dr. Jack Wolfson. On that I know he recommends a lot of nutrients that help improve nitric oxide levels. But in this study right here, the literature discussed in this review together with our published data and preliminary results related to nitric oxide regulation and hypothyroidism suggests that nitric oxide levels could be a reliable marker for thyroid dysfunction as well. So we know nitric oxide can contribute to cardiovascular but they’re saying hey, nitric oxide can also be used to assess thyroid issues. hypothyroid now I’m gonna guess it’s the low thyroid is probably driving the nitric oxide. I think they have the roles reversed here. But they talk about that, um, that literally giving thyroid hormone giving lt four, which I think is I think they’re referring to that as level thyroxine and T4 actually has been used as a therapeutic molecule for improving cardiovascular related disease via thyroid dysfunction. So Furthermore, the newly discovered role of thyroid hormone and the effects of lt four on no production may have broad implications in cardiovascular disease. So meaning what meaning oxygenation and heart health is connected to healthy thyroid. So we know there’s a connection between thyroid and nitric oxide, and that’s going to help with oxygenation. So if you have oxygen issues, and or health issues there, we got to look upstream to make sure the thyroid is not a problem.
Evan Brand: And make sense why we have the most number so far if you’re looking at the statistics worldwide, I mean, we have a ton of people, right, we’re very large country, compared to some of these other smaller countries that are running numbers. So there’s a lot of factors but you look at the health of the US as a general rule, we’re not anywhere close to a quote native diet. I mean, you look at Japan’s numbers, Japan has barely been affected at all based on the stuff I’ve been seeing and these are people who you know, they’ve got some of the oldest living people on the planet in Japan, they’re eating their native diet. I mean, they do do a lot of rice so they probably are higher carbohydrate but just in general, they’re eating real food you know, they’re doing fish quite often. You go down the street anywhere in America, you’re going to find a McDonald’s which is going to be hydrogenated oils, massive inflammation, you’re going to find high fructose corn syrup and everything. You get the little cinnamon cookies with your kids Happy Meal, that’s pure straight sugar, high fructose corn syrup. So it makes sense, right? When people say oh, well, we could have done this better. We could have done that better. I mean, look at the look at the the the template that we started with look at America’s Health template as a whole. We were sick as well. As a general rule, you’ve got the little bubbles like you go to like a health conference. And you’ll see everybody’s keto. And the women look great. And like, wow, this is what Healthy People could look like. I’m always amazed, aren’t you? When you go to health conferences, and you look at people you’re like, these are good looking people. These are healthy looking humans. Wow, what a relief from seeing, you know, if you go to, let’s say, a theme park, you’re going to see the average American, you know, massively obese, eating ice cream versus you go to a health conference, you’re like, wow, these are what all humans would have looked like, a couple hundred years ago, or even my grandparents who were farmers, they’re my great grandparents who were farmers. They look like these people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I’ve actually noticed the opposite to some people that health conferences are really unhealthy because, well, part of it is they’re kind of on their health journey themselves, you know, true and a lot of times it’s all about your starting point. You know, if someone was really overweight, but now they’ve lost 50 pounds, but there’s they’re on the right track. A lot of times people are kind of moving into that field because they’re a wounded they’re walking the path of the wounded healer That’s very true. Alex gray says. So sometimes everyone’s on a different journey. Right. And so I see that too. But yeah, I’ve seen it both ways for sure. And, you know, one thing I wanted to highlight from you is, you talked about citrulline. And there is a couple of studies on low citrulline levels and low citrulline. And its effect on nitric oxide. We know that but one thing they talked about, is it how people are dying from this coronavirus is typically acute respiratory distress syndrome, right? That’s kind of how everything manifests at the end, and they’re talking about nitric oxide playing a big role in that. And they talked about that nitric oxide substrate citrulline would be associated with end organ damage. So essentially, lower levels of citrulline increased more acute respiratory distress issues and sepsis and organ damage. So it seems like loneliness really protective. With this end stage disease failure that you’re going to see with these issues.
Evan Brand: That is crazy. I wonder if you could get that I mean, that’s problem is, is that readily available that you could get it in IV? If you’re in an urgent situation? Or you depending on drinking it, you know what if you’re in such bad shape, you can’t drink an amino acid blend, you know what I mean? It’s just tough. Like, how do you implement some of these things?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I mean, if you were IV or worst case, you’d get some type of access port to the to the stomach or the intestines where you could dump the the freeform amino acids. Yeah, in that way. I mean, that’d be the biggest thing. I would, I would think I’m not sure what your options are. And that kind of a crazy surgical session-
Evan Brand: That’s the problem too, because when you’re in that, as that doctor mentioned, in the video we talked about in the beginning is that it’s very difficult. And he actually wrote in the comments too, as well, that he’s actually kind of closing up his ICU unit, and he’s returning just to the emergency room, because he says he doesn’t have faith anymore in the standard protocol. And he didn’t say, flat out but I’m kind of reading in between the lines that he’s unable to go off of the protocol and try other things. So that’s the problem is, let’s just say citrulline and Argentina. Are game changers and beet powder and they could significantly boost up nitric oxide to really help reduce the severity of this issue. If you bring that up to your doctor, first of all, they may laugh at you. And then secondly, they may say, Well, we don’t have that you got beet powder in your pocket, sir. What do you want me to do? You know, they’ll probably give you some kind of smart aleck answer like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. 100%. And again, I just think conventional medicine isn’t really equipped to add some of these modalities and just because most of their modalities are going to be drug base.
Evan Brand: Well, they don’t have it on hand. They don’t have a pallet of beet powder in the back of the hospital.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, exactly. And I really like to see you know, conventional medicine kind of get more hip with functional medicine principles in the emergency setting, right? Because we know a lot of integrative medical Doc’s for chronic disease. They’re starting to get hip with functional medicine because they’re understanding that they’re just treating their patients long term with drugs. And it’s very expensive, right? If you treat a diabetic with just Metformin and insulin, In all these different things, it’s very expensive, over 20 years, it’s gonna cost millions of dollars. But we could actually work on getting to the root issue and fix it with diet and lifestyle and specific supplements. So I wish we could see more of that mindset with the acute palliative care. I think we may see even better improvements.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, you and I have several medical doctor friends, some that work in cardiology, some that are emergency room and I bring these issues up all the time, I say, hey, look, if you’ve got somebody coming in, and they’ve got maybe some slight elevated blood pressure, and they’ve got major anxiety, what’s your typical protocol, and it’s going to be like a benzodiazepine like Xanax, it may be some type of medication to get the blood pressure down, and then they send them home with like a psychologist or a psychiatrist referral so that they could then go get on an antidepressant. But instead, if I were in charge, if I saw slightly elevated blood pressure, something I thought the nutrients could handle, and there was a panic attack associated with it too. I’d say okay, well, here’s your shot a passionflower motherboard. thenI Which I will call me down and simultaneously reduce blood pressure. And then hey, here’s some extra magnesium. Here’s some extra Foley. Here’s some Hawthorne Berry, and we’re good to go.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I agree. I think those are all good things. People talk about 5G and being a driving factor. It’s hard to say. I think the jury’s still out on that. I think the first place you want to look for issues with 5g is you’re going to see it in professional athletes, right? professional athletes are going to be in major cities playing, they’re gonna be playing at the highest level, and they’ll be being you’ll be bathed in 5g just based on being in a in a local Metro City area, you’re going to see decrease in athletic performance injuries. So look at the athletes first thing that’ll be the first litmus test of a decrease in physiology and function.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and let me add this to that. t mobile and sprint and at&t and all these people part of their advertising as they speak about, hey, next time you come to such and such arena, we’ve equipped it with 5g so they’re actually putting those small cell units on Around the actual arena for some reason, so I’ve seen that as a, as a promotional thing that those arenas are some of the first places actually to get the new technology. And then of course, it rolls out into major city hubs and then neighborhoods and then eventually suburbs and on and on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, there’s always been 4g for the longest time so there’s going to be some of this stuff. My whole thing is you’re probably not going to get away from most of it. So just get healthier. So the healthier you are, the better you’ll be able to deal with it. My big concern is going to be like if you’re got a 5g Tower right on top of your work office or a school that your kids and that’s kind of my bigger concern because a lot of these technologies they’re they’re exponentially more harmful The closer you are so the closer you are to it. more detrimental so when you’re when you’re right on top of it, that’s where I’m really concerned the most.
Evan Brand: Yeah, distance is your friend to I saw there was a couple of guys I don’t know if this was an official study or just some, some testing they did out in the field. It was some guys out of New Zealand, I believe. They found that even just raindrops for example, reduce the 5g signals by over half over 50% reduction in signals just based on the rain. And they may have actually been researchers that were helping implement the rollout of this. They weren’t necessarily anti 5g people, but they were just reporting, hey, look, when a rain shower comes, you’re going to lose your signal. And potentially with some of the satellite stuff that’s being done. What about cloud cover is in the clouds, because I’ve had family members that have had satellite TV or radio and they say, look on a really cloudy day your signal gets cut down. So I think there’s a lot of variables and factors in this in the rollout might not go as smooth as planned, which if you think that it’s going to affect you, that may be good if the rollout is failing, and these environmental issues like even the leaves, think about the seasonal changes when all the leaves Come on the trees. We know that was some I think it might have been the same guys who did the rain study. They showed that when you tried to blast that type of frequency because it’s a higher frequency. It can’t penetrate as deep so it couldn’t penetrate through a tree that had full leaves on versus a tree that had no leaves. It could go Of course right through it. So just line of sight is very important when it comes to actually getting exposed to the so if you’re kind of living in a Rolling Hill topography, unless you’re on top of the hill and the towers on top of the hill with you, you’re in much better shape. So yeah, I agree with you. It’s tough. I mean, I think it’d be really cool if we could just go and point the finger and say this is it. It’s this, but it’s too difficult. I think it’s going out on a limb right now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. I don’t think I mean, let’s look at Italy. They’re one of the country’s hit the hardest. I think there’s a lot of other natural, you know, I call it overcomes razor, right? more probable reasons why Italy got hit really hard. Right. So number one old old population, right 70, 75 plus lots of comorbidities that that’s your biggest risk factor. Number two, they waited a very long time to close down their border and we know how the social distancing and the quarantine has been effective at decreasing the exposure, right. And then also, number three, they just have a lot of a lot of Chinese companies actually bought a lot of Italian brands, but a big name Italian, you know, clothing brands. And what they did is they basically ship all the Chinese people up there to work in that northern Italy town, producing those brands. And they did that to keep the Made in Italy tag on a lot of the products. So there’s a lot I think over 500,000 Chinese citizens that are legal citizens up and up in that Italy area. So I think there’s a lot of traffic going back and forth. That’s probably the bigger variable that I think hit Italy. That outside of a variable of 5g that’s probably more likely of all the different things that’s that’s happening there.
Evan Brand: That’s a trip. That’s very interesting. We got two more things we need to talk about before we wrap it up. One thing is exercise in generals, of course going to boost nitric oxide production. Yep, so like interval training you and I were kind of talking before we hit record about hit training. So high intensity interval training, maybe just a quick sprint followed by a walk or if you have a row machine a hard row or if you have a cycle machine, hard biking and then resting, those things are really really shown to to increase nitric oxide. Hey, go ahead. Yep, I was just gonna say Dr. Mercola had like a three minute nitric oxide video that he promoted where you were doing like a lot of arm exercises and just pretty intense stuff to boost it up. I think it’d be cool to try it and do a nitric oxide test strip on your tongue. That’s one way to measure before and after. Probably not the bet the best or most accurate but that’s pretty much what’s available. There’s not many good ways to test this right now to prove it. Besides feeling your hands if you got cold hands and feet, like I have and then you drink beet powder and then your hands warm up boom, there’s your answer you increase nitric oxide.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. also things like infrared sauna and or red light therapy can kind of modulate and help improve a nitric oxide as well. We’ve already chatted about citrulline citrulline is an amino acid that’s a precursor that can be used to help improve nitric oxide and it can be used to bump arginine levels as well. And someone right wrote in on the message what about arginine and viruses. So yeah, there’s some data on arginine, feeding herpes and such. I’m not sure if that’s the case if you do citrulline because citrulline is a precursor. So your body may have some modulating mechanisms to prevent arginine from going too high to feed viruses. So I would if you’re going to lean on it and you have a herpes issue, then you may want to just lean more on citrulline and then just work on a lot of the other things and just keep in mind that the deeper stuff like the thyroid hormone, gut function, pre diabetes and metabolic syndrome issues with high levels of insulin from high levels of blood sugar, you mentioned some of the exercise full body functional movements are going to be powerful. And then also just keeping inflammation levels under control. You know, keeping the gluten in there, the refined kind of junky dairy and a lot of the refined sugar and processed foods are going to keep inflammation because inflammation antagonizes nitric oxide, right? inflammation is going to increase, you know, you’re going to have an increase in cytokines and interleukins and, and prostaglandins like prostaglandin, e two, and these things are going to cause more constriction, they’re going to cause the the vasculature to kind of pinch down tight, and then we’re going to have less oxygenation. So, in this time of coronavirus, being an issue, we really want to improve oxygenation. So these are strategies that we really want to make sure that we’re hearing to on the diet side lifestyle, side and supplement side.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I don’t want you to skip over it. That was an amazing paper that you found on the on the far infrared sauna therapy. So I’m just going to kind of quickly read off just a few more things that are in this paper here and then we’ll and then we’ll wrap it up. So there there is talk of improving into thelio function, peripheral blood circulation, increasing artery blood flow, alleviating fatigue and pain, reducing blood pressure, promoting capillary dilation. It also goes into heart disease. It goes into reducing cortisol and glucose. So they were saying here that far infrared therapy could help act as sort of an anti diabetes treatment, it really helps to reduce the blood glucose levels and cortisol overall, therefore improving the ability to respond to insulin, chronic chronic kidney disease. So let’s just say we talked about the kidneys a little bit today, talks about here too, that the function of the kidneys improves with sauna. So I mean, this is just amazing. I’m not going to say the sauna secure for everything, but wow, what a great tool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, essentially sweating. I mean, saunas going to do it a little bit deeper, because the near infrared is going to penetrate deeper into the body. So you’re going to have a little bit more of that vaser dilating effects, but just getting good functional movements in getting some sweating, getting your body temperature up also is going to be helpful and then look deeper at the functional medicine principles, thyroid digestion, and, you know, look at potentially doing things like a lot of these vegetables and upping our In a lot of these things to help improve nitric oxide levels in the body.
Evan Brand: Absolutely. Well, let’s wrap it up if you want to reach out clinically, Dr. J and I are available. His website is JustinHealth.com. You can reach out worldwide we work, FaceTime, Skype, Zoom, phone, you know, we work virtually so we can send lab test to your door, you get those back to the lab, we review the results and then make a game plan to get you better. So that’s JustinHealth.com, my website for me Evan is EvanBrand.com. And please make sure you’re subscribed. We look at our subscribers and we’ve got a lot of you that are subscribed, but there’s a lot of people that just listen and are not subscribed. So what are you doing with your life, make sure you’re here because we’re trying to tie all the puzzle pieces together. We’ve covered the diabetes and blood sugar aspect of this thing. We’ve covered some of the immune support stuff, the cytokines stuff, and we were really trying to just build, build, build, stack it on, stack it on. So we’re going to continue to do that. So thanks for your support, and we’ll be in touch.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just one last thing to kind of stack on there. I’ll reference other podcasts on the topic, but we already highlighted mold as being a potential deeper issue and then potentially heavy metals as well. And again, I wouldn’t recommend going after those right away. Unless you’re in an active moldy home that then we try to fix that. But you want to work with a good practitioner to prioritize these things. Because there can be a lot of, let’s say, rabbit holes that you can go down. And we always want to work on the order of operations, what’s going to give us the best results for the least time and effort?
Evan Brand: Yeah, exactly. You don’t want to get distracted and put all your money and effort into something that’s not the biggest piece of the puzzle. So that’s what we do. We try to analyze your case. Look at those puzzle pieces, arrange those in not only the correct order, but the order of importance of how big is it going to move the needle? So yeah, you’re you’re exactly right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% anyone that has Corona or any other issues, put it down below want to know your comments. Any feedback that you guys have in regards to improving your nitric oxide levels are some of the strategies that we’ve already talked about and you’ve implemented want to hear your opinion and your thoughts down below. Really appreciate it. Hey Evan, it was great chatting with you, man. You have a great day.
Evan Brand: You too. Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Stay healthy.
Evan Brand: All right, bye bye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.
Blood Sugar Issues and a Weaker Immune System – Blood Sugar & Virus Connection | Podcast #278
Hi everyone! Today’s podcast talks about blood sugar and immune system issues. Diabetes marks the second spot today in comorbidities, and more information about blood sugar regulation is coming right up. With current health concerns, it is also important that we know why our immune system weakens and how we can make it stronger. We have different kinds of viruses and infections everywhere, so we really want to lay down all the important information about having a strong immune system. Join me and Evan Brand in this podcast. More info below.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
6:46 Glucose and Immune Function
11:43 Metabolic Side of Stress
18:38 Diets, Vitamins and Supplements
27:21 Flu Season
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here I’m with Evan Brand. Today we’re going to be chatting about blood sugar issues and the immune system. And of course, we’ll connect it to the corona virus here today as well. We want to make sense of why our immune system may be weak and how we can accelerate it and improve it. So we can deal with all kinds of different viruses and infections, including the corona virus. Evan, how are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, I’m really excited to chat with you about this. We’ve been looking at several different charts and graphs, there’s just so much stuff to keep up with. There’s just so much data, they could even be overwhelming for us, you know, just because we’re looking at so many different numbers from so many different places. But one thing that’s consistent across the board is we’re seeing that people that have comorbidities are ending up in a more critical shape. So specifically diabetes is second on the list. Heart disease is first on the list. So that’s pretty interesting because diabetics are [inaudible] is in America, and arguably were one of the highest diabetes incidents of any country out there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And there’s a phenomenon in our body that our immune system uses is called phagocytosis. And phagocytosis involves like our macrophages and monocytes gobbling up viruses. So imagine a PAC Man or a PAC woman, and they are literally just basically grabbing various bacteria and viruses. And it’s gobbling it up now, when it invalid. So basically, it gobbles up a virus imagination, meaning it’s like you taking food and you swallowing it, it’s now inside of your body and your body digest it, your immune cells to the same thing with viruses. And when you have high levels of insulin, insulin actually decreases that process. It’s kind of like if you’re nauseous or sick, you don’t want to be swallowing or eating food. Right. Therefore you can’t digest the food that you’re eating. Well, it’s kind of like that with your immune cells. When your immune cells have high levels of insulin, it’s going to be harder your immune cells will be nauseous to a lot of that bacteria and viruses and won’t be able to digest it and break it down. Now really important because that process requires that process is decreased when there’s high levels of insulin. Now, insulin helps blood sugar go into your cell. Why does insulin go high? Typically, there’s too much carbohydrates and or inflammation. Usually, it’s a combination of the two, of course, more carbohydrates and insulin to go up, the more refined and processed the carbohydrates are, and of course, more inflammatory that carbohydrates are. So some people may have a big insulin spike with grains because one grains will eventually break down to carbohydrate and glucose in your body, but also, the more inflammation the grains cause, especially if you’re gluten sensitive, that may create a cortisol spike and mobilize even more sugar, right so carbohydrates kind of bump up your sugar, but you’re immune response and inflammatory response to it can even increase it even more.
Evan Brand: So it sounds like there’s multiple mechanisms against you in this aspect. And so you really want to go lower carb right now it sounds like it’s just a smart, protective. I would just say anything you could do to lower risk right now it’s going to be smart. So that seems like one thing that’s pretty low hanging fruit 100%. They’ve been studies where they look at diabetic patients, and they actually lower their insulin levels, trying to see if I can find a good study on this. Yeah, here’s a wonderful study. Okay, here Well, I’m going to tell you why you’re pulling that up. I’m going to tell you what I saw over the weekend, which was a video from a doctor who had reported that out of I think it was 23 patients that were in his unit that were in really bad shape. 19 of those were confirmed diabetics. So 19 out of 23 that were in really bad shape, confirm diabetics. So, to me, that’s pretty telling and I’m sure there’s bigger numbers out there. That’s a pretty small patient group, but still still helpful to to have that data.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Let me go show you guys. So if you guys are listening on the podcast, we also have a YouTube version of this as well where you can see the actual video. So that’s important. So if you guys are driving, don’t worry, we’ll put the YouTube link down below. So if you want to watch the video you can, I’m going to share my screen Evan so you can see. So this is really interesting here. Let me just show you all this. So what they’re actually showing here is this. You can see here’s the ingestion rate, this is your your neutrophils and or your phagocytosis happening by your macrophages. So this is ingestion. So this is like your immune cells eating stuff. And this is blood glucose. So as you can see, as your blood glucose goes up, what’s happening to your white blood cells being able to eat these viruses and bacteria, it’s dropping. Do you see that trend there? So you can look here, let me just kind of draw it up for you guys so you guys can see it and it makes sense. I’m going to make sense of this all so you can see the general trend is this. It’s down. Now again, these are really high blood sugar range. Just 300 400 500 but you can see, even at 100, hundred and 10 that trend already starts. So let’s say your blood sugar only goes to here, like 151 60. Well, you’re still having a decreased immune function, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, I’ve had instances where I’ve taken my blood glucose after doing like rice, for example, in the blood sugar can go up into that range for sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and the thing is, if you’re eating every four hours, or you’re drinking a lot of alcohol or soda, you’re constantly jacking your blood sugar up, right blood sugar is going up chronically, which is then driving your immune system down. And again, you have to be you know, kind of more in the diabetic range to get over in these levels. But it’s, you know, it’s not impossible for someone to go up to 151 6180 acutely after a meal. And then if you’re chronically consuming excess carbohydrates, refined sugar, processed grains, you can Keep your immune system your blood sugar a little bit low. And that could keep your immune system. You know, if you’re at this ingestion rate over here of let’s say 75 or 80, and you drop it down, let’s say to 65. Well, guess what? That’s like a 30% drop in your immune function that may be just enough to get you sick. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: It does makes perfect sense. Well, of course, autoimmune to right, if you have some autoimmune diabetes stuff going on, I’m sure that’s gonna play into this. We’re talking just stuff that you could easily do and try to help support if you’re in the type two category, but type one would still apply.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, yep. And this is you know that a lot of different studies on this, that are looking at that or looking at glucose. In immune function. This is pretty common. So it’s really important to be able to know there’s a connection. And again, a lot of these studies connected to like diabetes or type two diabetes, which is fine, but there’s an in between area between having healthy glucose levels and being diabetic and alive. People are in this pre diabetic, whether we call it there’s starting to be this insulin resistance, it’s subclinical, it’s not at that 126 milligrams per dl of blood sugar, you may be just chronically above 101 10. And what does that mean? You may not have a 20 or 30 or 40% immune reduction, you may just have like a 10 or 20%. Right? And then that may be enough to get you sick.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that all counts, though, right? You may say, Oh, well, 10% reduction, but I want to do anything I can to to build myself up and reduce risk.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110%. So there’s a lot of studies on that, and I’ve talked about it. That’s why right now, if you’re worried about Oh, Corona virus and other viruses, right, you really want to have your blood sugar under control, so leaning more or lower carbohydrate will be helpful. Also a lot of the inflammatory films that are produced from the immune reaction, right so when your immune system goes to fight a virus or if I fight infection, it it produces these inflammatory Well, it produces cytokines to go after what’s happening, right? These cytokines create an immune response. And typically there may be lippo polysaccharides that are produced from the infection. And so what happens is these lipid polysaccharides also can create inflammation. And some of the byproducts of the inflammation that are produced are these things called inflamasames. They’re like inflammatory compounds. And what happens is these things inhibit nitric oxide and nitric oxide is really in it blocks nitric oxide and it suppresses certain toll like receptors so dark pigmented fruits and vegetables are gonna block the LPS are that bad bacterial toxin that activates a lot of those inflammatory so doing bioflavonoids elderberry. Lots of high quality fruit vegetables, especially lower sugar on the fruit ranks. We talked about how high sugar stuff can decrease your phagocytes right? So we want to make sure that We’re on top of that, and we can decrease a lot of that immune response. Right. So the more refined and processed your carbohydrates are, when you make a lot of these cytokines, it’s possible that your body is going to have a increase inflamasome activity, so we can really modulate it. So think of a lot of these compounds and bioflavonoids, we talk about, like adaptogens for our immune system, or adaptogens for our adrenals. This is like adaptogens for like the cytokine response in your body, which is really helpful.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I don’t know how powerful that would be like eating a handful of blueberries, versus doing like Japanese knotweed or some of these other side of kind of herbs that we’ve discussed. But to me, it’s all on the table at this point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, exactly. I mean, you’re going to eat anyway, you’re not going to just you know, get your calories and your nutrition off of herbs, right. It’s not going to happen, but can you use good herbs and nutrients that are supplemental for the immune system along with you know, fresh blueberries or really good quality bioflavonoids that are going to be in your vegetables and low sugar fruit. Yeah, I think so. And then of course, leaning more on on the lower carbohydrate side and improving your ketone levels, because ketones one, they’re going to want to keep your immune system or they’re going to keep your you satiated. And to ketones don’t have an effect that I’m aware of clinically of decreasing an immune response. And actually, your body tends to increase ketones when you get sick. Let me let me walk you through that. So when you get sick, what tends to happen, you tend to get more nauseous, right? And then the nausea does what it prevents you from eating, right? And then what is the eating? Do you actually start going into what I call starvation, ketosis, meaning you’re not getting enough calories, but you’re also going into ketosis, too. Now, that may be more on the severe side, right? Because your body’s trying to one not worry about digesting food, it’s worrying about digesting bacteria and viruses. Now that’s more when you’re sick. But what about the in between? Can you start to push your body a little bit into here? ketosis so you’re starting to do some cellular autophagy and clean up some junk in your body. Yeah. And with the with the ketones be fueling the weakened immune response like sugar would know they won’t be they won’t be right. And we talk Sugar. Sugar is typically sucrose, what sucrose, usually it’s 50%, glucose and fructose or 55 45 of its high fructose corn syrup, 55, fructose 45, glucose. So all that gets broken down into the same thing.
Evan Brand: It’s a big metabolic stressors, the key point here and so any stress in the bucket, we’re trying to analyze those. So we’ve talked about immune stressors. We did a whole podcast on different herbs to try to help calm the nervous system, because that’s part of the stress. Now we’re talking about the metabolic side of stress. So really, I mean, if you think of this whole thing as a spiderweb if we look at someone who’s getting critically ill, we’re thinking they may have emotional stress in the bucket. They may have metabolic stress in the bucket. You know, the dietary stress, they may not be sleeping well because they’re up all night watching TV for example. So They’ve got that melatonin cortisol disruption, which is also very impactful on the immune system. Because we know Melatonin is a super powerful antioxidant. It’s one of the most powerful known to man, and produced by the body. So to me, if you’re trying to look at all the data and you’re thinking, Okay, what can I do? I think the wise decision is try to look at these puzzle pieces, look at the spiderweb and try to systematically approach each of these categories making sure you’re getting to bed on time, like I put my little girls down and I go to bed kind of early. I know I go to bed earlier than you Dr. J. I go to bed like 9:30 10 you know, at the latest, sometimes even nine o’clock and then the winter when it’s dark. I may even go to bed sooner than that. So So sleep is foundation one and then foundation to get into doubt delta and focusing on your good quality fats to stabilize that blood sugar will still do some carbs and starch right, like well, we’ll do rice maybe once a week. We’ll do some potatoes maybe once a week. But other than that, it’s mainly good meat. Good fat. That’s good veggies, nuts and seeds. And then the herbals, vitamin C is not an herbal but vitamin C, some extra vitamin D, that stuff is all being used now in New York, you and I were talking about that earlier before we hit record that they’re starting to implement some IV vitamin C into some of these critical care facilities, which I think is a very, very smart idea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and also with the hydrochloric when alone protocol with the as the term is and the Z Pak, the doctors that are actually doing even better are adding about 230 milligrams of zinc to that protocol. And some that are even doing better also add in the vitamin C. So again, we always look at the immune function. Drugs are never essential to the immune system but nutrients are so that’s why leaning to extra zinc, or extra vitamin C, let’s say your diets great and you’re already getting a lot of those things. That’s awesome. But if you do get Exposure to something having more of those nutrients could help your immune system deal with that stress better, especially things like vitamin C, because there’s so much research on those at higher levels being very beneficial. And even if you were to get sick, your body’s gonna blow through those nutrients at a higher level. It’s just like, okay, now your drag race in your car, well, you’re gonna go through a lot more gasoline than you would if you were just driving normally, right? So you have to look at how you run in your body, if your body is already sick, or you’re under immune assault, right? You really got to bump it up even more so you can decrease exposure to the virus.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that makes sense. So, and someone who’s already stressed too, we know just by looking at organic acids testing. I mean, I would say 95% maybe your numbers a little different. 95% of people that we’re testing clinically are showing really low and a lot of nutrients. So amino acids, various nutrients, like vitamin C will show up low all the time. So to me, you may say that, Oh, this is extra supplementation. But to us, it’s kind of just baseline because so many people are deficient. So we’re actually implementing those already, even if this weren’t going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And I see a lot of doctors out there that are throwing a lot of doctors under the bus that are recommending immune nutrients and our immune support. But frankly, there’s two differences in care. There’s differences when we’re working with someone in care, and we’re testing certain nutrients and we’re being more specific, and creating a longer term plan. But then there’s even with patients a palliative approach where we may upregulate our immune system for an a more acute response, like if someone’s going to be having more stress or they’re going to be flying on an airplane, or they’re going to be around people that are potentially more sick. That’s a difference to the protocol, we’re going to be having more of a palliative immune boosting acute approach. This isn’t more of a long term program. It’s more of an acute response because your body may be under more stress right now. And it’s just trying to increase our terrain and our reserves, so we can deal with something more severe Specifically, so a lot of people get very dogmatic and want to nuance this and make it more difficult than it is. And of course, different people need different nutrients. But there’s also general approaches that we can use across the board to give ourselves a little bit more of a bump across, you know, the population without having to see each person as a patient test everyone.
Evan Brand: Right, right. I mean, my thought of it is kind of like a road trip, you’re not going to start a road trip with a quarter tank of gas. If you know you’ve got a journey ahead, you don’t really know how things are going to end up. Why are people close to you going to get affected or not? It’s going to be wise to go ahead and fill up the tank with nutrition now, even if you’re someone who has zero concern, zero fear, worst case scenario, you know, something did happen to you, but I think it would be wise to just it’s a prep, it’s sort of prepping your body prepping your immune system, prepping the metabolic system, prepping the nervous system. Like last week, we did a show all about that. different herbs that we love and use to help with the nervous system. All of it counts.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, when You get exposed to put infection your needs go up. So ideally, you’re already nutritionally supported in a way where your vitamin A Levels are good, your sea levels are good, your D levels are good. So when an infection hits you, it literally bounces off you it can even gain a foothold into your body, right? We know the corona virus uses that h2 receptor site, and it gains a foothold in uses this like filament to drop off the RNA inside the cell. And then it replicates and then you have an immune response. But if we can even prevent that pesky little mosquito from from dipping its nose into that Ace to receptor site, then that prevents this whole issue from happening. So it’s keeping your immune it’s like kind of like, Hey, we’re going to replace the locks on our door. We’re going to maybe put a ring camera out there, you know, I may put an ADT sign or something to make people feel, you know, hey, we’re watching this, this receptor site this home a little bit better, and it may prevent someone from even accessing the home or the cell. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: That’s a great analogy. I love it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so there’s two ways to look at it. Hey, you get sick. How do we have a stronger immune response? But number two is how do we just prevent that invader from even opening the cell door to begin with? And so we kind of want to look at it from two sides of the coin if we can.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and of course you can’t sign in blood and say, hey, look, if you do all the right things, you’re going to have guaranteed protection but to me, it makes sense that you could reduce risk I mean, if we look at just try to comparatively look at vitamin D levels and the flu we know just by looking at the data you can see in general, lower vitamin D equals increased risk. So the data is there on this this is not stuff we’re just making up on the fly to sell some vitamin D you know it’s there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep 100% and also, the patient’s got a road in here well what this fasting help well, depends. If you’re sick fasting can definitely help but we still want nutrition to come in. I would just lean in maybe on some collagen, amino acids smoothie, or maybe even just some bone broth or some gentle soup. Because when you when you are sick, your immune system just kind of doesn’t want to work as well because It’s mobilizing that energy right? When you eat food half of the energy that you take in goes to the digestion process. It’s kind of expensive. I use the analogy of using your credit card and having a 50% transaction fee on it. Hey, you buy $100 pair of shoes. Well you get a bill $50 after the fact right, that’s, that’s expensive. So if we can break everything down and make it easier on the tummy, or even go a little bit lower calorie for a day or two, but do it in response to your appetite dropping and nausea occurring if you’re not having a whole bunch of nausea or appetite drop, listen to your body, but you can always do a little bit of fasting. But try to make sure if you’re not nauseous to get enough nutrition, right extra nutrients, potassium, vitamin C, proteins, fats all that’s going to be great and if you start to feel your appetite going down, you can lean into a little bit more of a fast but you know still rely on easy to access nutrition from bone broth or collagen, amino acids or some simple smoothies.
Evan Brand: Yep, you said it best once on a call. Which was that? If you said there’s no nutrition and starving, so you kind of have to weigh that balance of potential benefits and things getting upregulated, maybe more ketone production, versus Hey, I’m just not having the blueberries and all the nutrition to me, I would still say go three meals a day, maybe you eat dinner at six, and you don’t eat breakfast till eight. You know, that’s a 14 hour fast. I mean, that’s plenty long enough at this point,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly a lot. Now, again, the less sugar and carbohydrate you need, you actually need less B vitamins and less antioxidants because the more glucose and glycolysis that your body has to run, it actually requires more vitamins and more magnesium, so your nutritional needs will drop. But if you ain’t really getting enough of those nutrients in you’re still going to need some of them. Okay, so get to them. And there is important, a lot of the carnivore crew, they don’t get a lot of those nutrients. But if you’re carnivore, you’re also going to be leaning on lots of grass fed nutrients. And if you’re eating healthy, quality steaks, there’s a lot of biotech cumulated nutrition those animals are going to get from those plants. So it’s totally different if you’re eating animals that are all grain based versus ones that are more grass fed. So if you’re going to be leaning more on the keto or even carnivore side, just make sure that animal products are high quality.
Evan Brand: Yeah, one thing that some clients have said to me is that they, of course, they’re not glad that stuff is shut down in the city. But I have had some people tell me, Hey, now that I’m forced to cook meals at home, it’s actually allowing me to get into new paleo cookbooks that I’ve had sitting on the counter or try these new recipes for this grass fed steak or try, you know, cooking some brussel sprouts for the first time. So I want to try to, you know, put some positive light into this that people are with their families, hopefully at home, they’re eating more good quality food, you know, when everything is running, normally, people are running out and they just don’t think about it. I mean, even when I talk with William Shaw, you know, the head of Great Plains Lab, you know, here he is running a laboratory doing it. Vance testing, and I get him on the podcast. And I’m like, yeah, take us through your diet. He’s like, Oh, I eat out for lunch every day like no bill, don’t eat out for lunch every day. So I guess you could do Chipotle and other higher quality things. But in general, now people are cooking at home or so I’m hoping this is really encouraging people to, to focus on nutrition more. And I think it’s it’s been a real big wake up call for the general population that, hey, our health does matter. And we kind of waited for a crisis to focus on building ourselves up. But obviously, this is not the way I would want it to turn out. But it’s interesting now that people are wanting to wake up and think more about the choices they’re making on a daily basis, like, oh, maybe I don’t want that alcohol because I know that alcohol is not good for my immune system. You know, people are just starting to, to care more, which there’s got to be some good out of that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then first thing is we talked about the immune system and cortisol and stress. So this video, we’re not going to go into the stats on what’s happening with Corona virus. I’ll do a video after this one where I go into the statistics of it. But let me just frame it a different way. All right? When it’s all said and done, the mortality rate of this infection is far below 1%. Number one, number 290 percent of people that get this infection are going to be asymptomatic. That means for every 10 people, or every one person that gets the infection, nine out of 10, minimum, maybe even higher. Doctor shots out of Ontario says maybe up to 20 people. So for every one person that gets it 19 to 20, are going to be asymptomatic as low as nine to 10 will be asymptomatic. That means your body got exposed to the virus, it’s maybe it’s having an immune response and you’re showing no symptoms. So in other words, there’s a 90 plus percent chance that you’re asymptomatic. And number two is, if you get sick, and you actually have symptoms, 80% of those symptoms are going to be very mild. So in other words, if you kind of look at the 90% chance, right and then you tail it with the 80 percent chance if you actually show symptoms, that’s a 98 to 99% chance that if you get this virus or get exposed to it, you’re going to virtually have very little problems addressing it, and you have a 90% chance that you won’t even know you got it. So that’s pretty awesome. So when you look at all the history and everything that’s happening on TV, you have to know those stats to begin with. And then the first thing I say is, am I doing more than 90% of the population? Or am I doing more than the 10% of the population that that’s really 10 or 20%. Out of that out of that population is getting sick? Am I doing more than 10 to 20% in regards to my immune system, and health, and I would say if you’re doing the right stuff, you’re going to be in that 99% category, for sure. Now, you’re going to see lots of anecdotes on TV of one offs of people getting sick. Number one, you don’t know their health history, too. You don’t know their diet. You don’t know what they eat. You don’t know if they have any other pre existing conditions. You don’t know any of that stuff. So the problem is, you’re not going to have access to a lot of it. And the majority of people are going to be 75. And often have multiple comorbidities like 99% of people in Italy had. So if you look at it, if I say, Oh my god, you have a 1% chance of dying, right? And you’re going to feel something. And if I say, My God, you have a 99% chance of not even having an issue at all, you also feel something with your body and your mind immune wise. So let’s flip it in our brain and look at it like from the 99% chance, and that’s not a 99% chance of living. That’s a 99% chance that if you get it, there’s no issue at all. It’s totally over your head. You don’t even know what’s going on.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and and we’ll wrap this up, because I don’t want to get too deep into this part, but I’ll do mine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s very important, though.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well, and yeah, and I agree with you, but what I’m going into is different and I don’t want to go off into a tailspin. But one thing that I’m noticing is that the media is focusing on Law on specific naming of people. So this celebrity has it that celebrity has it that celebrity has it. And it’s almost too, as if it’s to create, I don’t know, more fear because it’s like, oh, I know that person. They think they know that celebrity, if it’s patient 367 you’re kind of like, oh, man, that’s bad for them. But if you’re like, oh, Tom Hanks, it’s sort of, I think creates a more visceral response. But as you mentioned, Tom Hanks has diabetes. I just read an article this morning about Oh, yeah, having diabetes or being diabetic. I don’t know if he’s still fits the diagnosis or what but So, as you mentioned, just a minute ago, you lose sight of what else is going on with people. So it’s really easy to compare and think I’m a human, very human. But if they’re diabetic and their diets not good, and they’re traveling internationally, I mean, he was in like Australia, I think, you know, traveling. However many time zones to film for a movie, you can’t compare yourself and your situation to them and think that you’re just as vulnerable as them. It’s just not fair to yourself. It’s not fair to yourself to try to say, because that happened. That’ll happen to me. Because if you’re at home, you’re quarantine, you’re eating good food, you’ve got your nutrition on board, your your extra supplements on board to me. I would try not to worry unless there’s an urgent need to worry if that makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. And then, you know, like you mentioned, when you go into these one off kind of anecdotes, you lose perspective. And so like I always like to give perspective because it gives you a frame of reference to go back to. So this flu season right now. We’ve had 155 pediatric deaths due to flu. How many of these pediatric deaths have been, let’s say they did a a one off story on that person dying of flu, a 15 year old or a 13 year old or a 10 year old kid dying of flu, you don’t hear any of these things with the flu. All right, and that just tells you right now, if we’re comparing our apples to apples. There is an agenda by the media, to hyper focus on this and to hysteria is the issue. If there wasn’t an agenda, show me all the photo ops of all the other kids of flu dying, show me those stories, okay, they’re not there. And the reason why they’re not there is because people are trying to create a lot more fear in general a lot more fear and also decrease, you know, the relative risk on other conditions that happen all the time that we live with. And we’re very comfortable with it happening and we know what happens, right? And that’s the whole the pediatric fluids and it’s 155 dead so far this year.
Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s not good. It’s not good. I wish I could change things. But I guess all we can do is try to help provide just a little bit of a different perspective than just the headlines. And hopefully that can help people to just get through this and we’re all in it together. Unfortunately, everybody’s affected globally. You know, we’ve got clients all around the world, Justin, I work with people in Australia and Canada and Europe, and and it’s the Same there too. So it’s not just a US thing. Now at this point, you know, everybody’s involved. So we hope to just help everybody keep your heads up and keep pushing forward.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And also with the comparison, I don’t want to minimize any of the 155, the data flu, that are pediatrics that are kids that that’s already sad, but just know all the information we’re providing today is going to help you from all conditions. It’s not like, hey, this, this supplement is going to just help you for the corona virus of the flu virus, they’re going to improve your immune system, and your immune system will be so much more intelligent and strategic and dealing with all types of immune stressors. So keep that in the back of your head. We don’t want to make light of anything but at the same time we want to compare people’s responses and those responses reveal the the emotional overdrive to get you to feel something more about this versus that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, good point about the immune support right this this podcast will still apply a year from now even if nothing in the media is like this, this this applies all the time. So it Just becomes a little more important now that you focus on this stuff. So, you know, I’ve had some clients to reporting that their their stress eating. I mean, my wife went to Whole Foods and guess what all the cookies were sold out the graham crackers, the cookies, any kind of sweet stuff, you could still get bad food to Whole Foods, it was all sold out. So, you know, even if it’s a gluten free cookie that’s still is that blood sugar metabolic stress we talked about in the beginning. So I would say do the best you can to stay dialed in this is maybe you have a cookie as a treat, but you don’t want to go off the rails too much. Because remember that metabolic stress is immune stress and immune stress weakens you we don’t want that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Were there any other questions? I’m sorry. You got any questions? I didn’t have them pulled up.
Yep, so in general a pull it up here. We want to be on top of our immune system. And we also talked about the reason why the fear is so important is because of the cortisol response, like you highlighted that those surges of cortisol will weaken our immune system. So the reason why I am so on top of it and you’re so on top of Because we want to have a strong immune system. And if we can reframe how things how information is exposed to us, like I mentioned, versus the 99% chance of there being no issue at all, even with the infection, then that gets us a lot more hope and that creates a different immune response.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And the cortisol affects the gut and the gut, a lot of the immune system exists or happens the immune system activity can happen from good gut health. So that’s why you don’t want that cortisol damaging that gut barrier. This why athletes after too hard of exercise and may have diarrhea, for example, you know that cortisol can be damaging on the gut.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yep. Exactly. And then I’ve Barb writes in about being worried about contacting her 95 year old mother, yeah, just remember, just say that six feet, you know, the corona virus doesn’t have wings, so it can’t fly. It’s an aerosolized droplet that has to make its way over there. So number one, if you’re afraid of being asymptomatic, you could always wear a mask which will decrease the spread out your mouth. For the most part, you’re only going to have a spread if you’re coughing, right, so if you’re not coughing, a man, you’re not actively sick, you’re more than likely fine, you just keep a six foot distance. And then just make sure if you’re going to interact with someone that could be immune compromised, make sure everything’s washed going in there, washed in between, don’t ever touch something. And then if you’re dealing with that person who’s who’s older, make sure they’re washing in between washing after you leave and, and maybe washing down any counters that you may be near as well. Right, but that’d be the biggest thing. And if you’re really concerned above and beyond worst case, you could you could wear a mask if you’re really concerned, but mask really gonna matter more if you’re healthcare people and you’re interacting with people more, or if you are actively coughing or have a cough that you may not be able to control, right. It’s like a cough sometimes or a sneeze, right? Sometimes that can be hard to control. So if you’re in that category where you feel like it could happen then mass may be smart if you have to interact with that person. But that six feet buffer zone will give you a lot of good things. window, I saw the data if you live in the same house as a person, you only have a 5% increased chance of contracting 5%. So it’s not that much more. And if you use good practices and you’re not sneezing, then it gets even better.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I would just say if you’re somebody who you’re having like tree pollen allergies, and everything’s blooming this time of the year right now, then, and you know, you’re going to be sneezing and you’re not sure if you’re a carrier, then yeah, I think that mass would be smart.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And ideally, if you if that’s the case, I just wouldn’t interact. That’d be even further, just to save that to until things pass. Yeah, yeah. I’ve been using a lot of Instacart for my groceries, and that’s been really helpful because they drop it off. And a couple things you can do is you can do some of the on guard, or feeds essential oil and you can dilute a little bit of that in water and just kind of spray everything. You know, they drop off your groceries, nothing’s really warm in there. You can, you can leave it in the sunlight for like an hour or two and the fresh air will typically kill any viruses as well. And a lot of times the instacart people one they’re wearing masks, and two the You’re actually wearing gloves. So they’re doing a pretty good job on their protocols for picking stuff up. Instacart is going to be a service, that they’ll do the grocery shopping for you. So they’re doing a pretty good job. But if you want to go the extra mile, that’s how you could do it on top of it, I just wouldn’t recommend leaving meats or butter or those kind of things out in the sun, obviously for you know, for common sense reasons. Right. So anything else you want to highlight, Evan?
Evan Brand: No, that’s it. Did you have any other questions that popped up that were relevant? If not, we’ll wrap it up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I mean, it’s a lot of things we could talk about in regards to the immune system and what we could do nutritionally but we’ve done other podcasts on that. So I don’t want to be a broken record. So take a look. See, there’s other podcasts for the references on what to do to boost your immune system up. And we’ll try to put some links down below as well for y’all. All right, Evan, today was great. Hey, if you guys are having immune issues, or you want to be more on the preventative side, or you’re like, Hey, you know, I want to start getting my health better. Now what better what better time then everyone being at home and having a lot more time to start working on these things? So feel free head over to EvanBrand.com, reach out to Evan. And then Dr. J myself at JustinHealth.com, feel free, you can click and schedule we’re happy to help you all out. And again, especially during this time, you don’t have to drive to a doctor’s office that could be loaded with lots of you know, flu, other viruses. And this is a great way to start moving forward while you get time.
Evan Brand: Absolutely. We work hundred percent virtually we may not mention that every time but we assume most people figure that out by listening and looking on the website. But yeah, so we send labs to your door, you do those labs, UPS or FedEx picks those up and then returns and back to the lab and then we jump on a call Skype, FaceTime, Zoom, whatever, we then review those and then we make a protocol to get you feeling better. So that’s how we work and we’re very blessed and very grateful for the opportunity and the lab so far. I’ve been doing great with turnaround times. We haven’t seen any lag or delay. We’ve got nutrients that we have stocked up on Justin and I both personally so we’ve got supply which is good. A lot of places are sold out of stuff for immune. So luckily we kind of thought a little bit ahead of the game here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and let us know what you’re doing. comments down below if you got the dreaded Corona let me know what you’re doing with it. If you got other infections right now or you’re feeling sick, let me know your experience, what’s working what’s not. And if you enjoyed this stuff, give us a thumbs up, give us a share, let your family and friends know we really appreciate it. We want to empower everyone here.
Evan Brand: Last note, I saw that one Chinese study that came out that 80% of people that tested positive It was a false positive. So that, that’s why the scratch my head.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I don’t love the idea of the testing because it’s gonna it’s gonna create more numbers and those more numbers are going to create more hysteria, more panic. And I always tell people more numbers actually mean that the virus is actually weaker, because that means the mortality rate actually drops right? But I don’t like the idea that there’s a false positive 50 to 80% of the time. So-
Evan Brand: That’s bad at a maximum 80% false positive. I mean, that is humongous. If we just deleted 80% from the numbers of the cases, I mean, that would that would be unbelievable how different it would look-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then how I how I interpret, that’s a little bit different. How I interpreted is, if you’re around people that could be immunocompromised or are going to be older, go through the extra precautions, whether it’s you quarantine for them. Or you go through extra measures like washing hands, which you should be doing anyway. But maybe you maybe I do gloves, maybe you want to do a mass that you recycle, just to be extra careful, I’m fine with that. Just pretend like you already have it and more for the immunocompromised, more for the elderly. But get sunlight, get some fresh air. If you can leave your house and you’re not in like New York City where things are congested, go in your backyard, get some get some fresh air, get some walk, get some vitamin D, all that stuff’s gonna be great. Don’t be cooped up inside unless you’re of that population risk factor. And you’re in a part of the country where you have to be everyone’s gonna do better getting that fresh air and vitamin D.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and we’re running on your fires like always too. So this would be another good time. If you don’t have air purification, you are trapped inside. Air Purifiers are a good strategy. So we could put some links for that as well. We’ve got a couple of recommendations.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: In our budget and our air purifiers that we’re recommending will filter out viruses. So if you’re in that area and you’re in someone’s home, right crank up that air purifier. That way it’s gonna clean everything out and less chance of getting more exposure. But again, risk factors are going to be pretty low if you’re doing all the right things.
Evan Brand: Yep. All right, check out the websites if you need help once again, Dr. J. at JustinHealth.com, me at EvanBrand.com, we’ll be in touch. Well, take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent everyone. You guys have a good one. Stay safe. Peace. Bye bye.
Vitamin C and Your Immune System
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
Loading up on Vitamin C is a great first line of defense during cold and flu season. Many know instinctively to reach for vitamin C at the first signs of illness, and that’s for good reason. Vitamin C is truly a super vitamin, packed with immune boosting potential!
Vitamin C not only helps reduce symptoms and duration of respiratory tract infections–such as the common cold, bronchitis or sinusitis–it also decreases incidence of other conditions and complications like pneumonia and diarrhea.
Vitamin C plays a significant role in human health, both in reducing inflammation and preventing illness. Studies have even shown a correlation between being vitamin C deficient and having an increased risk and severity of the flu.
What is Vitamin C?
Vitamin C is a water-soluble vitamin, also known as ascorbic acid, which acts as an antioxidant in the body. Vitamin C plays an important part in overall health, from maintaining healthy connective tissue, to protecting the heart and increasing nutrient absorption.
Benefits of Vitamin C
Vitamin C helps prevent getting sick, and if you do get sick, vitamin C can reduce the length and severity of your symptoms. Emerging research shows promising results with vitamin C being a treatment for viral infections such as the flu.
Vitamin C also helps reduce viral pneumonia-related hospital stays–in one study of a patient with virus-induced acute respiratory distress syndrome, vitamin C was administered through a high dose IV which was believed to be a key factor in the patient’s rapid recovery.
Benefits of vitamin C include:
- Better skin
- Stronger immune system
- Increased nutrient absorption
- Reduced risk of chronic disease
- Helps manage blood pressure
- Reduces inflammation
- Anti-oxidant effect fights free radicals
- May lower risk of heart disease
- Protects brain function (memory and thinking) as you age
How Can I get Vitamin C?
Vitamin C is found primarily in fruits and vegetables, which is why it is important to include a lot of fresh organic produce in your diet. A vitamin C deficiency leaves you more susceptible to falling ill, can cause you to become chronically fatigued, and can even lead to scurvy.
The human body does not make vitamin C–we depend on external sources to meet our dietary needs. In fact, the body doesn’t even store vitamin C, so it’s important to have a steady stream of vitamin C rich foods in your diet. Vitamin C can also help you better absorb the other nutrients in your food!
Vitamin C-rich foods include:
- Bell peppers
- Citrus: Oranges, grapefruit, lemons
- Brussels sprouts
- Green peas
While vitamin C rich foods should b a part of your diet for many reasons, when you feel like you might be coming down with something, it’s time to start supplementing with more vitamin C than what you’ll get in food. You can use a high-quality vitamin C supplement, click here to see the vitamin C supplement I recommend to my patients. When you need an immune boost, take 2,000 mg 3-4x per day.
Other Ways to Boost Your Immune System
Vitamin C is an excellent immune booster, but it is best used in conjunction with other healthy lifestyle habits.
Immune Protocol: When you feel the first signs of illness
- Vitamin C supplement, take 2,000 mg 3-4x per day.
- Avoid alcohol, gluten, and sugar: these impair the body’s ability to fight off infections. Studies show that every time you indulge in something sweet, the immune system is depressed for hours!
- Get Enough Sleep: sleep is the body’s time to repair. It is essential to get enough sleep (even more than usual) when your body is fighting off an invader.
- Getting Outside: Vitamin D from the sun can help the immune system work better. Great in conjunction with vitamin C!
Vitamin C is an essential nutrient and a powerful antioxidant which many regard as the king of vitamins. It can help improve your health, both inside and health. Remember to feed yourself nourishing foods, like organic fruits and veggies which are full of vitamin C, to keep your natural defenses strong. However when you’re feeling compromised, know that vitamin C is a great first line of defense!
Top 5 Antiviral Herbs and Top 5 Nutrients to Support Your Immune System | Podcast #276
Currently, global attention on health is at an all time high. With a virus in circulation, it is important that we take good care of our immune health. Dr. Justin, along with Evan Brand share top 5 antiviral herbs and nutrients that could help boost our immune system. Check this informational podcast below.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
9:07 Nutrients for the Immune System
14:51 Antiviral Herbs
24:05 Importance of Good Health
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand, Evan, how was your weekend, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, man, it was pretty good. It was interesting. Of course, we went out to various stores and saw everything wiped out and I’m sure people don’t need any more reminders that the stores were wiped out of toilet paper. And that was really it on, you know, just did the normal thing with the kids. So it was great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s excellent, then yeah, I’m doing a little bit of social distancing because of the corona virus. I don’t think personally, I don’t think it’s gonna be that big of a deal. I know. I think the the media and the hysteria is bonus out of proportion. You know, we have to compare these pandemic issues to previous pandemics to compare reaction. Do we have symmetry in previous reactions, right. And if we look at swine flu, H1N1 in 2009, we had over 1000 people in this country. die from that. I think I think even even more than that, I think over 100,000 in the World Book, we’re only at like, what I think only how many thousand people have died of this. So far 6000? 6000 have died. And swine flu were over 100,000. And we had over a million people in this country with it. And we only have, I think 3500 and change. Now, number two is the big reason why I think it’s not going to be as big of a deal. Because I’m reading lots of anecdotes on people that have had flu like illnesses over a month ago, and that were tested at the ER at their doctor’s office, and that came back negative for flu. So my personal intuition, right knowledge, guided by experience is that this virus has been around a lot longer than we know. Chinese government doesn’t have the best reputation of being transparent to the US government. So I don’t expect the December timeline of, of when everything kind of came to fruition with this virus is being the correct timeline based on previous experience. So I think this virus has been around a lot longer. So a lot of anecdotal stuff. bonds people over a month ago having viruses that were flu like that were deeper respiratory based. And that did not come back positive for the flu. So I think it’s been around a lot longer. I think the incident rate is a lot higher than we know. And so I think over time, as the testing gets better, we’re going to see more, more people positive. And that’s gonna drive down the mortality rate, right? Because we people aren’t messing up the death rate, the death rates, the death rate, it’s hard to ignore a person that dies and they’re going to get tested and assessed for a virus so you’re not going to mess that up. But what you’re gonna mess up is the incident rate. Because unless you don’t have strong enough symptoms, or that risk factor history, no one’s gonna get your test and based on where the testing is limited right now. I think the incident rates a lot higher than we think it is a story on NBC last week guy gets coronavirus it you know I think at the princess diamond cruise ship. Well, his wife in the same quarters as him, didn’t even get it. And part of the immune response we’re going to talk about this here I’m going to do a YouTube video today is the corona virus is actually an RNA based virus. Okay, so most viruses, they’re DNA based. So what happens is this little virus comes in, and it sticks itself to your cell and penetrates into the cell. And it sticks itself actually using these little Corona like clubs, hence the name Corona virus. And then it uses the ACE inhibitor, the ACE pathway, which is the same pathway that a lot of the ACE inhibitor blood pressure drugs use, and they transmit the RNA inside the virus to inside the cell. And that creates what’s called a cytokine, storm or interleukin storm. And then that’s where the initial flu symptoms actually come from. They don’t come from the virus, they come from your immune response to the virus. And so then what happens there is, then then you start to have the symptoms. The problem is, a lot of people have a strong immune response or have a really good healthy cell membrane because adequate vitamin A, that virus literally just bounces off the person. It doesn’t even get, it doesn’t even get to drip the RNA into the cell. And so because of that, you’re not going to really be able to detect an immune response to That person because there isn’t even an antibody response to it. The body just deflected it off. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s interesting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So like to look at an immune response, you’d have to have that virus invade, then your immune system makes that antibody response to it and kills it. But what if that virus can’t even storm the castle wall? Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s part of why so many people who’ve gotten the virus don’t even have any symptoms, meaning they got exposed to it, but they got no symptoms at all. And that’s part of the the theory that you know, I’ve been postulating and other people have been postulating to.
Evan Brand: Well, regardless of what it’s going to turn out to be, we still want to be helpful in whatever way we can to people. So today’s podcast is about antiviral herbs and nutrients that we could use. All of these have studies on them. And of course, we can’t say specifically in the research. Hey, astragalus has been found to be anti viral against this specific Corona virus, but it’s been specifically shown against influenza. And there’s other types of viruses that we have studies here. So it’s not going to be 100%, this herb for this virus, but if we can just assume that some of the same mechanisms are going on, then these herbs should still be helpful, and they’re not going to hurt put it to you that way.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And people will talk about, you know, the fact that, you know, the flu virus is a is a has been around for a long time. But at the same standpoint, they’re still tweaking the vaccine every year, because there is mutations that happen and part of what goes on with the flu vaccine is 80% of the time, it’s wrong, because we’re basing it off of the type of flu strains that happened in Asia the season before, and that’s where we kind of predict the strains that we should adjust the vaccine to this year and the wrong 80% of the time. So we know that there’s some mutation that happens right? And so the corona virus isn’t the first one we got exposed to that with SARS, which is sudden acute respiratory syndrome, and MERS, which is Middle Eastern. respiratory send them. So those are two other Corona viruses. This is covid 19. So 19 other ones similar. So let’s kind of just dive into we already talked about what’s happening in regards to the immune response. So the things that we’re trying to support is number one, the body’s healthy immune response to it, and then away modulating the immune response. So we don’t become, you know, more sick or more symptomatic because of an inappropriate immune response. I already addressed how cytokines and interleukins can actually make us feel kind of crappy, which is good, because we want to feel a little bit crappy. So we kind of stop and rest and sleep more, right? Well, we don’t want to feel so bad that our immune response is actually worse than the virus. So I want to kind of draw a line in between nutrients that support our immune system, and herbs that enhance and support and stimulate our immune system. So let’s draw a line. So some of the big nutrients that I can think of off the bat in our top 10 list is So as links are really important one, it’s gonna be fine in a lot of animal products, not seafood, seafood, and that’s going to have a major effect on our immune system. And it’s gonna it’s gonna have an effect on testosterone, it’s gonna have an effect on testosterone, and hydrochloric acid. And our hormones plays a very vital role. We have what’s called zinc fingers, which affects our DNA, adequate levels of zinc have a major effect on our epigenetics and our DNA. So zinc would probably be our number one, I think, on the nutrient side. Anything else you want to highlight on zinc or anything else?
Evan Brand: No, I would say that vitamin C is probably going to be number two, though. Yeah, it wasn’t your number two.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. They’re actually doing studies on Covid 19 and vitamin C right now in China as we speak. So that is something that’s real, and they’re actually looking at that already. And we know that they’re buying lots of vitamin C for a lot of these reasons, preventively. So we know intuitively something’s happening there. I’m going to be very curious. See what the study pans out over the next couple of months in this?
Evan Brand: Yep. I don’t think this is going to be in the nutrient category, but it’s kind of both right because it is it is sort of an immune support, but it also does modulate things and it would be astragalus route. And I personally stay on astragalus pretty much year round, but I go higher dosing in the spring and summertime in case I get tick bites, but there’s been some studies showing that when it comes to the herpes simplex virus HSV one, it was found to inhibit that virus. Another study showed that it inhibits the RNA replication that you were talking about. So it seems like it has a multi benefit, like it can be an adaptogen for the immune system, but it also can help inhibit replication of viruses.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, modulates the interleukin response and actually help stimulate the natural killer cell response which is really important. That’s the first line of invaders. That’s part of the reason why some of these viruses bounce off people because they have a really good th one immune response. These invaders can’t even kind of set up shop to begin with.
Evan Brand: Yep, olive leaf. I love olive leaf-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I want to continue hitting some of the nutrients. So-
Evan Brand: Alright, go ahead.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let’s go to N acetylcysteine. We talked about this last week in particular, but ns little systems and amino acid, and it’s also going to help with glutathione. So n acetylcysteine is gonna help with respiratory issues mucus, it’s gonna support the lungs and acetylcysteine will also help occlude a thigh and we know low glutathione is correlated to weaker immune response and the ability to detoxify. And good bio actually helps with lung health. So we know NAC is vital for glutathione. And, and that’s also going to make a huge difference on the lungs and the respiratory system. And NAC is also shown to be very helpful to decrease viral replication. So once the DNA of that virus invades your cell, it’s going to replicate and if it’s replicating and we can put things in there to hit the brakes on that viral replication. That’s going to help immune system catch up.
Evan Brand: Yep, we could go into nutrients forever. I’m just thinking now my head spinning vitamin A higher dose of vitamin A could be critically important. Higher dose vitamin D could be critically important. Maybe 10,000 iu for most people would be just fine for vitamin D, we always like to have K1 and K2 added to it. The funny thing is a lot of the things we’re talking about you and I do these all the time anyway, for people it’s not like it’s a different protocol. It’s just, this is kind of the baseline stuff like we use glutathione on NAC combo all the time. Now it just becomes a bit more important. And, you know, vitamin D, for example, has been shown to reduce the risk of flu, other respiratory infections, including pneumonia, which as you mentioned, last time we talked about this, that’s one of the main mechanisms that people are getting really really ill is when it progresses to a point of pneumonia. So vitamin D alone has been shown to reduce the risk of that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, let me go back and hit vitamin A, according to what some of the research says are zinc, I should say. Zinc is very helpful for modulating the th one immune response, it helps modulate cytokine production and B lymphocytes, which a lot of times B cells are going to be the antibodies that we make, it’s also helps to decrease cell replication of the DNA of the virus, which is very helpful. And it also helps with a pop ptosis. So it helps with program cell death, which is very important, right? We want to keep a lot of these cells from replication, right, the more they replicate, the more it’s going to, it’s going to put more stress on our immune system to kill them. So that’s really important. And then we also know the more zinc deficiency occurs, you know, the harder it is to decrease replications we know zinc plays a big role. And then vitamin A is really important because number one, vitamin A plays a major, major role with the cell membrane, it makes that cell membranes stronger. And let’s just say imagine, like the cell membrane is kind of like the castle wall. It makes it harder for invaders like viruses to get into the cell. So adequate vitamin A is going to really helped make that cell membrane nice and strong and more impervious to things coming in vitamin A also has an inflammatory role. It protects the epithelium, it protects the mucous membrane. So if the mucous membranes stronger, that’s gonna prevent invaders from getting in that way. It also has an anti inflammatory role. It’s in a module eight cytokines as well. So a lot of really, really, really important things. Vitamin A is going to help. So zinc vitamin A, we already talked about an acetyl cysteine. And its effects on viral replication in glutathione and mucus and lung health. And then you mentioned vitamin D, and vitamin D, makes a natural antibiotic called [inaudible], which is antibacterial. It’s in a module a th1 and th2 immune response by helping the T regulatory cells and an overall turn that used to be supporting the immune system. Anything else you want to highlight on vitamin D, Evan?
Evan Brand: I mentioned that the K1 K2 I don’t know if it would have any role in immune health, but we often use it together. So I would just say out looking at the store for a combo, the combo product is generally going to provide more value across the board and just a standard d3. And if you could go for something that’s going to be like a soft gel or even a liquid, I’ve seen a lot of really low quality vitamin D supplements that are in tablets with a lot of fillers and binders. So, you know, keep in mind, the nutrient is not just the important part, you want to make sure you’re getting quality and try to use stuff that doesn’t have a bunch of extra garbage added to it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes sense. I’d also say lysine is a big one. We see it with herpes viruses, but it’s been very, very helpful to modular immune response, it helps deactivate a lot of the herpes viruses, it definitely plays a strong role in enhancing and strengthening the immune system and also helps with up regulating antibody. So that B cell antibody, the B cells that make your ITG IGA IGM, those antibodies are going to be strongly enhanced with a lysine and so very, very helpful at modulating the immune system and so on. Big I think nutrients that I would kind of highlight here because we want to draw a line between nutrients and herbs. I would say vitamin A, as an apple, vitamin D is in dog vitamin C as in cat, zinc, we could throw a lysine in there. And it was or anything and then zinc, I think we hit all five or six or six or five. A, D, C, Zinc, NAC. I think that’s it. Those are the big five. Anything else you want to add there, Evan?
Evan Brand: We could do we could do plenty more. But I think that’s definitely enough nutrients. I’m excited to talk about the herbs. Those are the things I think have been more powerful. So the next one after astragalus I was gonna-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just to highlight, we talked about some of these herbs last week, some will be an overlap, some will be some new ones. So if you’re listening to last week, we’re gonna amend and update some of these nutrients here and herbs too.
Evan Brand: Yep, well said. So I was going into olive leaf. I love olive leaf. We use it all the time. So actually like part of my Candida protocol, we’ll have a couple of herb combinations that will have olive leaf combined with say monolauren. So maybe I just stacked those two right on top of each other. Monolauren is a lauric acid coconut extract, it’s been shown to be very, very potent as an antiviral and olive leaf, the main compound in it, I believe it’s pronounced [inaudible]. And that actually prevents the virus from attaching to the cells. So we kind of talk about mechanisms a lot. And people say, Well, why does that matter? Well, because some herbs may prevent the replication of viruses, things like all of actually prevent the virus from attaching to healthy cells. So if you have multiple herbs, you see you’ve got multiple mechanisms, you’re just making yourself even more resilient. So that’s why I’m a huge fan of all of huge fan of astragalus monolauren, those are probably like my my top favorites.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. So we hit astragalus we talked about the immune a lot of these things are going to help with either immune modulation, natural killer cell antibody modulation, right the the infantry that comes in afterwards for us and help with viral replication. And then typically it’s gonna modulate the inflammation from the immune response. Usually it’s it’s hitting things in about three to four different ways. And so most are going to fall into that category. So when you hear like things that that’s kind of the mechanism how they’re working. Now, cat’s claws a really big one. We use cat’s claw or cemento a lot with biofilms, they work really good, right? These are protective shields, bacteria and critters use. We also use it with a lot of lime and various co infections. But cat’s claws are great at the immune system, helping with viruses, really enhancing the body’s ability to deal with infections. And again, everything we’re talking about isn’t necessarily the tree anything A lot of it’s a lot of the time it’s just to support our own immune response to what’s happening because our body is really the Ultimate Fighter. In all of this. Everything we’re doing is just trying to give our body’s immune system an edge to address the issue to begin with.
Evan Brand: I yeah, I want to just restate what you said because I think this is the the point that many people are missing which is the body has and humankind has dealt with viruses for forever. All we’re talking about now is what can you do to try to gain the upper hand, it’s not that these things are essential, these things are just going to improve your resilience.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So it’s important to have the right mindset, a lot of people are selling like cures or solutions. And that’s not going to be the case, but it’s really going to be our body to begin with even antibiotics. When the infection gets cleared, it’s still not the antibiotic, right? It’s the antibiotic lowering the level of the infection, and then the immune system can kind of come in and play right, it gives a really, it’s like, if we’re using a lifting analogy, it really gives a very helpful spot. When you’re kind of low in that bench press. It really gives you that little spot to kind of get up through that sticking point for sure. So akinesia will be one of my next favorite ones. And again, when we’re doing a lot of these herbs, a lot of times we want to make sure the whole root is present. So a lot of times with akinesia, you’ll see a lot of flower present. I want the whole root, I want the whole root. I find that has a lot more of the The immune modulating alkaloids that really have the immune benefits, so akinesia is, is excellent and how it reduced virus virus levels, it inhibits the growth of bacteria inhibits the growth of viruses, it’s also going to modulate with the inflammation caused by that immune response caused by the cytokines and interleukins-
Evan Brand: Yeah, and when you’re looking at a supplement label, most people listening are probably already expert food label readers and expert supplement label readers but you should just see in parentheses it should say something like root or aerial parts meaning flower, so you want to see something that’s like a whole complex.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, a little bit better. And some have a combination, which is fine, too. Mm hmm. Yep, exactly. And buy from reputable company because when you buy raw material, you can buy the McDonald’s version or you can buy the grass fed local farmer version, right. You want to buy the highest quality, cool. Next oil level right now we use oil of oregano, a lot more when we’re dealing with fungal overgrowth, certain certain gut infections, really good antimicrobial, antifungal qualities also, whatever I can now also as antiviral qualities, I like it a lot. It’s going to knock down viruses, the karva call compound and the oil of oregano is very, very, very, very potent, very potent. And it’s going to have fireball in there and karva call which are going to which are going to be the main ingredients there. And it’s going to have, you know, immune modulating benefits, as well as killing benefits is going to actually help kill parasites, bacteria and can potentially kill viruses too.
Evan Brand: Oregano is amazing. I mean, it’s like one of the most broad spectrum if we ever have a client where, let’s say they just have some kind of symptom we can’t resolve related to the gut, maybe they had a combination of viruses and bacteria and parasites and fungus all in one. If something doesn’t work, the first round will come in and do oregano oil, and it really acts as the it’s it’s the generic spot treatment. I guess you could call it because it may not fungus down a little bit. It may not bacteria viruses. So I mean, really you can’t go wrong with it. Well, once again, I think quality is key. So as you mentioned, you do want to make sure you get something standardized for the Carver crawl that way you’re, you’re getting something that’s potent enough to work. A lot of people say well I have oil of oregano essential oils, no, that’s not the same thing. You’re going to want something like what we use, which is going to be an encapsulated version that’s much more potent, and we use emulsified olive oil. So that allows it to spread out and hit the whole intestinal tract as opposed to you putting a drop of oregano oil in your water and drinking it. That’s not what we’re talking about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I’ll tell you people that use a lot of the oil of oregano essential oils, I had a parasite in Mexico one time and actually had an oil of oregano essential oil. The problem with it was I could not get enough down my going down my throat without burning my throat seriously, it was so bad. So if you have it, what you can do is get a nice capsule and pour it into it. And that can be very, very helpful because it’s hard to get enough in your system without burning the crap out of your Throw in your upper gi. So having a good encapsulation will be nice. A lot of the capsules you get over the counter will still open up pretty fast. And so you may still feel it in your stomach, a lot of the capsules that we’re going to use are going to be more a little bit more gelatinous. So it buys more time to actually open up in the in the small intestine versus the stomach. Yep. Well, that’s the difference. Yeah. So we hit oil of oregano, we hit astragalus, we hit ekinasia, we hit olive leaf, I would say one of the next ones would be silver. I mean silver has amazing benefits at knocking down viruses and bacteria. Intuitively, we’ve known this for a long time. That’s the reason why we’ve made our forks and our knives out of silver, where it’s because we’ve known that using these type of things to handle our food actually has decreased food poisoning and had antibacterial antimicrobial effects on our food. That’s why we’ve used silverware for hundreds of years on our food. And you hear lots of negative stories about silver and a condition called our argiria. Which is going to be you know, you turn Blue so to speak. Again, this is not going to happen in high quality silver products that are, you know, 15 or less part per million, you’re not going to see it. A lot of these issues are people consuming silver that is way higher on the part per million side. And a lot of times it’s homemade. I’ve had patients and people tell me like, yeah, I make my own silver, I get like some, some sterile silver coins and I put it in a salient solution. I run a current through it, I’m like, holy crap, you have no idea how much silver is in there as a level of parts per million. So if you’re consuming silver, make sure you choose a high quality company. And you know, we actually know the parts per million on there. So you know, it’s the molecule small enough for your body to still excrete it.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and the stuff we’re using, it’s not expensive. It’s not like silver cost $100 a bottle either. So why people would do that as opposed to just buying a professional brand who does it right. I don’t know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the naturopath named Dr. David and he talked about this one time and I remember at a conference, he literally took a liter of Silver, and he just chug the whole thing on stage. Everyone’s like, holy crap. He’s like guys, yeah, good silver, you’re never gonna see it being a problem. I was like, Alright, and then the next day he was totally fine. But he consumed a whole liter of silver. That’s insane. But yeah, so his premise of it was Yeah, it’s really just about the quality of silver. It’s really about the quality and how much how big the molecule is.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well, I gotta run I’ve got a contractor that just came over to my house but that was the last thing I wanted to mention. Anyway, if you didn’t hit it, I think we hit it over.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. I’m glad we hit it. And again, for people that are having struggling with immune issues or health issues and they want to dive in deeper Evan and I are in the trenches dealing with patients all the time from all over the world. So Evan’s website’s EvanBrand.com they’ll be able to console link there. I am Dr. J. at JustinHealth.com, feel free to schedule online. We’re here to help and if you enjoy the content, put your comments down below what you guys think any questions about your experience with using certain nutrients and antiviral herbs to support and enhance your immune system. We’re really curious To know and if you enjoy the content, make sure you share it with friends and family. We really appreciate it. Anything else you want to say, Evan?
Evan Brand: Yeah, we deal with these type of issues every day all day helping people become more resilient. So now people are just realizing how important it really is to take good care of yourself. This just gives you more reason to not eat bad foods this gives you more reason to go to bed on time this gives you more reason to have healthy relationships and remove bad people from your life. So things like this really shouldn’t change your life that much but if anything, maybe it puts a spotlight on some of the sore spots of your life that you need to improve upon the sleep the stress the work stress their relationships, you know, so please use this time to build yourself up not beat yourself up or or think you know, negatively, just build yourself up. That’s my that’s my message.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And excellent anyone listening. I’ll be back in a few minutes for another live Q&A session. So a lot of questions here. Love to hit them up on the backside. Ever man, you have a great day and we’ll talk to you man.
Evan Brand: Same you take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye.