How to Address Sinus Infections Naturally | Podcast #368
A sinus infection, also called sinusitis, is a common problem that causes your sinuses to swell up. The sinuses become inflamed and cause symptoms similar to the common cold. Many people can contract a sinus infection after having a cold or the flu. A bacterial infection usually causes sinus infections, but viruses or fungi can also cause them. These infections can either be acute or chronic.
Dr. J and Evan discuss nasal flushing, which can help clear the mucus out of your sinuses. It is one of the most effective home treatments for a sinus infection. They also emphasized the importance of rest, filtered air system, and other nutrients to boost the immune system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
2:17 – Nasal flushing products
10:03 – Mucus and nebulizer
16:54 – Sinus anatomy
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For today’s podcast, we’re gonna be talking about how to address sinus infections naturally with Evan today. Really excited. Good topic here. It’s a common topic that people are experiencing especially in the winter season so we’re gonna go through it. What we gotta do to heal fast from sinus infections naturally. Evan, how are we doing today?
Evan Brand: Hey, doing really well. Why don’t we start with the conventional approach? What is that? If you go to your ENT with a sinus infection, what are they doing?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it depends, I mean, some are gonna be more antibiotic hesitant and say well you know it could be a viral infection, right? You know, almost a quarter of all antibiotics are actually prescribed for sinus infections. You know that? It’s crazy. So, most of the time, they’ll wait and see how bad it is. See if you have a fever, uh, usually like you have that punch in the face kind of feeling where your teeth are really starting to hurt, chronic headache and then you’re having a fever usually they’re waiting seven to ten days or if it’s gotten better and then gotten worse again and it’s usually seven to ten days out with a fever then they’ll start to, you know, typically prescribe antibiotics. Again, most sinus infections are viral so you know, you have to get to the root cause of that so a lot of times antibiotics won’t work. The problem with antibiotics is you’re swallowing it, it’s going 2 or 3 feet away from the actual issue so you’re basically dropping a systemic bomb to instead of hitting a localized area. Now, there are some more, I would say functional based medical doctors that may do some kind of an antibiotic in a compounded powder like an amoxicillin, something like that in a suspended solution or powder and they put it in a sinus rinse bottle like this and then you can flush your nose with that. Better, right? At least it’s more localized. We’ll talk about some strategies using saline flushes and different things that I recommend to help get that under control, naturally and not have to destroy your microflora in the gut. So, that’s a big thing out of the gates which can be very helpful. I got a sinus infection last week from a viral infection that my kids brought home. I never have been exposed to so many bugs since I have two young kids, 2- and 4-year-old boys that go to an outdoor wilderness school and they bring stuff back home from all their classmates and so I’m getting inoculated every single day and so we’ll talk about some of the strategies that I take so I can recover fast.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I still hear a little bit of you. So, what are you doing? You mentioned you got some kind of tools on your desk there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, couple of things out of the gate, you know, to irrigate or flush that area out can be very very helpful. One, to flushing the viral particulate out. Two, we may add in some components to actually help kill what’s up in the nose as well. So, we have our saline, so you can either do NeilMed saline, which is really good. We’ll put links down below. The Neti Xlear is really great. I’ll kind of go back and forth between those. I have both. And so, we’ll take this and you’ll add eight ounces of water in one of these types of bottles. This is actually the best bottles. It’s made by Xlear. It’s Xlear’s bottle. It’s the best because of the plastic isn’t cheap so when you press it, it recoils really fast so when you’re doing good flushes, sometimes you’re pressing and then you’re having to let it reload so to speak and it’s just a really good plastic. Some of the plastics are weak so then, it kind of just stays sunken in so I also have a NeoMed bottle, definitely a cheaper plastic. And there’s another bottle by Walgreens. It’s even cheaper. So, this one is okay, you know, they give it away with like 60, 70 packets of saline so it’s pretty cheap. It’s a nice bottle. I have like three or four of them lined up in my office sink so when I’m in between patients, I’ll just give it a good flush. And so, we’ll take the saline packet. We’ll mix 8 ounces of water; we’ll add it to it and then I’ll take either food grade hydrogen peroxide. You could do regular hydrogen peroxide from the drug store. It’s not as big of a deal if you’re nebulizing it. Again, it you’re flushing it, if you’re nebulizing it, you probably wanna go more food grade just to make sure any stabilizers are out. And then, I typically just fill it up just enough to cover the bottom part of the cap. That’s it. Just about that.
Evan Brand: That’s like a dash. I mean just a tiny amount.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And you know, you went too much if you put it into the water and then I would just pour it into the saline, my finger over and just shake it up and then you know you did too much if you feel any kind of irritation or burn. You can so you can always start less and kind of work your way up and then if you do too much you can just add a little bit more water to it and back off so that’s a good option right there. Another option I have is I’ll do like my GI clear 3 silver and I’ll add a cap full of that to it. You can do that. You can add just straight up betadine iodide. I’ve stopped doing that because of the orange color. It just stains. It’s really annoying so I’ll go to, like, a clear simple potassium iodine which is good. Those are a couple good options out of the gates and so we’ll basically irrigate 2 to 3 seconds of flow, clear everything out and blow your nose in between. 2 to 3 seconds of flow below your nose. That’s a good way to do it out of the gate. Now, there’s a couple of other strategies that you can do, so some of my sinus sprays that I’ll use and so I have 3 big sprays so here’s extra rescue which is really a good one because it has six different herbs in there. It has, like pau d’arco, parsley, eucalyptus, oil of oregano, tea tree, right, so it’s really good. Six different herbs and so what I’ll typically do out of the gates if you’re new to using the product. I’ll do it, about 2 sprays in each nose, about ten minutes before a sinus flush. What I find is, it starts to, like, agitate and release all the mucus. That’s kind of stuck to the inside of the sinus cavity and so like five to ten minutes before spray it, wait, and then do a sinus flush. I find that it releases things a lot better. So, that’s really good there. And once you’re better with it and you feel more comfortable, you can do it after as well. Just see how you feel. If you’re really, really inflamed too, there’s another product called Xlear max, which is a good one.
Evan Brand: I’ve never tried that one. I’m scared of that one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Well, the rescue one, I think, is like the strongest form, like a killing perspective. The Xlear max is more, like anti-inflammatory. So, the big difference is, this, the last one was grapefruit by the way and the Rescue.
Evan Brand: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so in the max, the difference is it still has the same saline, still has the same xylitol. So, this has xylitol plus six herbs, okay, saline. This says xylitol saline, the difference is it has aloe so it’s a little bit more soothing, all right, for the sinus. It has the grapefruit as well, which, so it still has some killing effects in it and it has some capsicum which is like a homeopathic anti-inflammatory. So, this is like, if you’re like the tissue is really inflamed, really raw, this is a better one. This one’s really good for killing because of the different herbs that are in there. And then, there’s a regular one out there. I have it upstairs, as well, which is the regular Xlear and that’s more like people that have chronic sinus issues, you can use that more every day and it’s a little bit more gentle where it’s just the xylitol and the grapefruit extract and it has the saline and again the benefit of that, the xylitol, it really kind of knocks down some of the bacteria that could be there. It prevents biofilms from adhesions so biofilms are like the protective shields that a lot of the bacteria used to protect against the bugs. So, that’s very helpful. And so, the nice thing is if you do the saline, right? Oh, by the way, the water reverse osmosis or distilled, make sure it’s high quality filtered water. Do not use your general tap water, very bad, so make sure it’s really good. Don’t even use, like, river water, it’s gotta be really good clean filtered water. Like even now and then, I’ll use the water out of my faucet because I have a whole house activated charcoal system so it’s still good but I also have a RO system where my countertop is, so that’s where we cook in and drink out of that water so I use that 99% of the time. So, I’ll use that, I’ll add the packet, fill it up to 8 ounces, pack it and then I’ll add either hydrogen peroxide or silver. It’s good to have a couple that you rotate through just in case there’s some resistance which is, you know, meaning like there’s some bacteria or viral resistance. It’s going to have a couple of things there and then I also have just a straight grapefruit and saline solution as well. This one is okay. It’s gentle and so those are good ways to do it. I recommend, start to do it before you flush like 5-10 minutes before because a lot of times it just releases a lot of mucus and then it allows the flush to do really well and then depending on how you feel afterwards, you can also try it after a flush and then give it a sprayer. So, once everything’s really clean and see how you do afterwards. So that’s a good start out of the gates. Of course things like N-acetylcysteine are wonderful. NAC is great. That helps with the inflammation. Really helps drying up the sinuses. I’ll do glutathione, as well. I’ll do high-dose vitamin C. We’ll add in some different nutrients, zinc, those kinds of things as well. All the good immune nutrients, vitamin D decrease all the sugar consumption. A lot of that is very very helpful. I also have a red light in the office and so I’ll kind of go up against it and let the red light get in there because that’s very anti-inflammatory as well.
Evan Brand: Man, I should have paid better attention to the label on that Max. I was afraid of that one because I thought that one was more intense than the rescue. I’ve done the Rescue forever. I kind of like the berm. You will get a little burn with that Rescue one but the way you talk that Max is actually more soothing than the Rescue. The Rescue is more hardcore so I need to try the Max, I’ve never experimented with it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think the big thing in the Max is just people are already, like more inflamed because there’s less killers in there, it’s grapefruit. It’s got the same sodium chloride, it’s got the aloe which is soothing and that has the Capsicum. I’ll do that right now actually.
Evan Brand: That’s very cool and the question came in about colloidal silver so in some of the rinses you could do a little bit of silver. We, also, have talked about it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I already talked about that so I said you can do the hydrogen peroxide, add it or like I’ll do my nano silver like my GI Clear 3 or some kind of a silver so you’d add like a dropper or 2 worth of silver in there which is what I have for there. So, you can do silver, you can do hydrogen peroxide and you can also do some iodine. Those are your three good ones that you could do. You could also throw in like someone in the chat wrote about like oil of oregano or tea tree or something of that. Maybe overkill if you’re already using the Rescue afterwards or before because you’re already adding that to it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And so, we could do that in a nebulizer protocol too, so if we’re doing a hydrogen peroxide or a glutathione or a silver nebulizer that could be another sinus support.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The problem with the nebulizer, I find it’s just, it’s deeper, it’s better for, like lower respiratory stuff. The problem with, like the mucus that comes out of the nose, it’s very tarry. It’s very sticky, right? And so, what is the mucus? Well, you have one just mucus which is clear which is like your body trying to flush bacteria or virus out and then you have the immune system interacting with the infection and then the dead soldiers, right, of that fight, that battle are essentially all the green and yellow and so the more dead soldiers, right, the more battle we go from like light yellow to yellow to darker yellow to green, right? So, the darker, right, and the, the more chunky the mucus is, the more there’s an immune fight happening up there and so what happens is, you have, you know not that, this is the best analogy I can think of is you have all these dead soldiers from the immune reaction just like sitting up there and sticking all to the sinus cavity preventing breathing oxygen exchange and also some of that can eventually go down the eustachian tubes which connects to the back which can go to your ears then you can start to get an ear infection and all that dead debris can also become like fertilizer for like a bacterial infection down the road. So, you got to get it out. So the problem with nebulizer, it’s in a vapor form so it doesn’t have the ability to push the junk out and so with a nice bottle like this pressurized, you can come in there and you can really pull all that stuff out and push it out where you’re not gonna get that with a nebulizer so your nebulizer is gonna be, you can still do it, I still did it daily but it’s gonna be better for lower respiratory issues and this have all the same stuff in it a nebulizer will, the difference you’ll have the pressurized force behind it to really get it out. Push it out. That’s the difference. And there’s some like I mean there’s sometimes, I mean I won’t get graphic but like I’ll blow my nose I’m good right? I’m good, go flush it out and then there’s twice the amount of junk left behind after the flush that was that what I couldn’t get out through blowing and so you get a much deeper cleanse of the sinus cavity with this because a lot of times you’re getting stuff out literally in this upper forehead area in here and so you’re just getting a lot better release.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you mentioned NAC already, which NAC got banned from amazon so if you need access to it, Justin seems on your store, I believe I’ve got a glutathione NAC combo. I do not have an NAC by itself. What do you do, do you have something to offer there?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We have different products like in my line have a detox amino product that has more other stuff in it. I just have a straight NAC here. I’ll go, there’s a couple of brands that I’ll go back to before, in between 90% are out so a lot of times I just have to get brands right now. That I typically wouldn’t get if we had a better supply chain with NAC right now but yeah we’ll put a link down below anyone needs NAC, they can reach out to the office but to highlight back on what you’re saying there, NAC is super helpful and then also there’s a Nasaline you can get which is like a pressurized syringe which is great. So, you suck up the saline from the bottle, it’s like a syringe, you put it up against your nose and you press it, that’s helpful. Also, I find too if things are really stuck, sometimes you need to go like pulsations so you need to like squeeze hard, relax, squeeze hard, relax, squeeze hard, relax because I find that the pulsation sometimes will free up some of these mucus that’s really tarry and sticky so that can be very very helpful.
Evan Brand: Knock on wood, I never ever get sinus infections.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t either. It’s my first time.
Evan Brand: I don’t know what to, what to attribute them to like you said is it an exposure, is it a weak immune system, is there a gut connection to it?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just part of the viral infection so viruses tend to go in two major areas. They go upper respiratory or lower respiratory, right? So, a viral infection that goes too deep can eventually become pneumonia. A viral infection here can become a major sinus infection and so by being on top of this, you have your tools, your sinus flush is your best for your upper respiratory, your nebulizer is best for your lower respiratory and so you can prevent those things once you have viral infection, it’s replicating it creating inflammation. You could prevent these things from going too far with those tools.
Evan Brand: Well, that’s a great point you just made which is the possibility of it turning into pneumonia so people listening are like well why should I care, why should I try to do this and speed the process up, why should I try to intervene? Well, because you don’t want to create more systemic inflammation or lead to something more serious especially in a person who’s 80 years old or above, you know, that could create much more problems if they didn’t treat it while it was just up here and it went further south.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah and if someone’s sick and they’re trying to prevent it, I think two to three flushes a day is good for, like, prevention especially while you’re sick. I think it can’t hurt just doing straight saline rinse once a day in general. I wouldn’t add any killers or anything to it. Just a straight saline. I think it is fine, just to kind of keep your nose clean at the end of the day. You wanna do that, I think it’s fine. If you’re sick, I’m going like every hour or two, I’m flushing my nose out just because at one it feels really good. It’s really clean and just as long as you’re not irritating the mucus, you know, its isotonic solution, so you have like the sodium, the chloride, it has the bicarbonate in here. Those are the two major compounds, right? Like sodium chloride is basically your sea salt, right? And then, you have your bicarbonate in there. So those are the two major ingredients and then of course this is like USP grade so it’s just really really clean.
Evan Brand: And what do you mean by that? For people listening, what you’re saying is that pH balance so it’s not gonna irritate your sinus cavity.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You can’t just take regular, like, clean water and put it in your nose. If you will absolutely burn it and irritate it. It would feel like someone punched you in the face because the mucous membranes need a certain pH and a certain level of sensitivity so it’s kind of like using eye drops, right? Same thing. You need to have, like, saline-based eye drops. This is, you’re using sodium chloride. Pharmaceutical grade plus the bicarbonate which is baking soda. That’s everything nice and balanced for the tissues. So, when you flush it, it shouldn’t irritate the sinuses and it should have allow it too feel nice and smooth and gentle afterwards and then if you have some kind of infection brewing even preventative for a bug just add a little bit of silver or hydrogen peroxide in there or a couple of drops, you know, some iodine that’ll give you enough killing capacity to knock down any bugs that could be multiplying but I’m going every hour or two, for me it just feels really good very soothing. It feels like plus if you blow your nose too much, you just keep your nose all raw around the side so it’s nice to have a nice clean flush. I kind of call it like, it’s like a bidet for your nose. It’s kind of how I look at it.
Evan Brand: That’s hilarious. You know, this would be a good strategy for travel too. So, if you need something portable like the excellent Rescue. If you’re on a plane or after you get off a plane it’d be a good idea to boom boom do a couple of sprays that’ll be great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, also, amazing for kids. Kids cannot honk their nose, blow their nose or the damn right. They just cannot get a good blow in there and you get these things on the market like a nose Frida which you know we have one you get like that deep in the cavity. We’ll do the whole nose Frida for you to think about the nose and then we’ll do this with my kids, flush it out and you’ll see so much junk come out. This is how kids get ear infections right? If you look at sinus anatomy, once you go up this far, there’s this canal, right here that goes straight to the ears and it’s called the eustachian tube and with kids it’s a little bit flatter a delta kind of angles up a little bit so it’s harder to get things uphill with kids because it’s a little bit flatter so it’s easy for the mucus and the junk to go into the ear and then you have an ear infection and of course like if your kids are getting ear issues to the food, sugar and of course high dairy products are gonna create more mucus, more mucus in the sinus cavity can make their way and so if your kids are more mucusy, one make the diet changes but two get their nose cleaned out as well so it doesn’t travel to the ear and this is why you want the mucus cleared up because if you let all the mucus and all this coagulation of all the immune soldiers so to speak, stay up there, it can make its way to the nose and now you have an ear infection.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Good point about the diet. I know we got to run here in a minute or two but that’s a good point about the diet if you are looking for like preventative maintenance strategies, I mean obviously you can’t just live in a bubble and not get exposed to things but you wanna have the good foundation of your diet to reduce inflammation, I mean so many people come in and say they have quote sinus problems, really it appears that they’re food allergies because once they clean up their diet, they get rid of gluten, they get rid of dairy all of a sudden their sinus is clear.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And people have, like, allergies to the environment. One, have a really good high quality air filter. We recommend the Austin air because it has the activated charcoal, the Zeolite plus the Hepa. Hepa is, like, usually standard in most if you’re on a budget. You know, go with the Hepa to start but definitely get one that has an activated charcoal, Zeolite, the Austin air, the filter lasts five years per replacement so you don’t have to spend as much money replacing it every six months and the activated charcoal and the zeolite filters out more toxins but I’ll tell patients like you know, do a flush you know in the morning when you get up, do one after you’re outside working and then do one before bed. Just the saline’s fine. You could do a little bit of spray, you know, before or after. Try before that’s helpful but just try to get the allergen out especially before bed because if you have all these allergens way up here and they’re creating inflammation that could be a stress response during sleep that’s preventing you from deeper restorative sleep and so the sinus can be flush really helpful along with some of the uh some of the remedies that we have here.
Evan Brand: It’s a good call. Well, if people need help, they can reach out. You can book a consultation with Dr. J at justinhealth.com. So, if you have sinus issues or other health symptoms, you wanna talk, see what’s going on, see if we can help that would be justinhealth.com for Dr. J, or if you need help from me, that’s Evan, evanbrand.com. We’re available worldwide. So, most of these products we can get and we can ship to you. I know a lot of people internationally have trouble getting some of this stuff, silver and NAC. Some countries are just weird and it’s hard to import stuff but usually we have. Our team is great with logistics. So, I think it’s good to just have a stash of this stuff if you don’t already, don’t wait till you get the sinus infection then try to order, get it. Get it now. Get it, get prepped.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They have a bottle of it there. Someone said, can you do too much of it. I would say it depends, right. I would say, if you have an active infection, I think you’re gonna be fine just make sure the water is clean, RO high quality water. Make sure you’re using a good quality sodium bicarb, I think if the killers are making you more sensitive, right? You could always do your spray or killers before and then do the just the saline without anything in it after so then everything’s clean and flushed out so then you don’t have anything overly abrasive in your sinus after the fact, that’s a good way to do it and if that’s still a problem you could even, you could even just do a saline flush and not anything else after that. It’s still better than nothing just to get everything out of the sinus cavity but worst case do your spray before and then afterwards just the flush. And they have spray that are just silver too, so you have, I have a silver spray too. You can just do that, I’ll do that for my kids sometimes because they’ll complain about it like just the feeling it’s a tiny tinge of a burn for like 10 seconds and so I’ll do the silver sometimes with them. Oh by the way, my kid had a pink eye issue, used to silver spray, opened his eye up, I just like this, I went, gone in two days. So, silver is excellent for some of the pink eye stuff, I would never do it with this. That would burn but the silver is good. I hope that makes sense. Any other questions about that so far?
Evan Brand: I think we got most of the questions answered here, there was one question about getting mucus after food and these were things like yogurts, ice cream, soy sauce, wheat products, well yeah, I mean it sounds like food allergy so obviously I would clean up your diet. I don’t recommend any of those foods, maybe if it’s like a coconut cream ice cream with low sugar maybe but beyond that all of those foods to me sound like potential irritants.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Sugar and inflammatory foods, especially excess sugar and inflammatory foods will cause mucus, that’s part of the inflammatory response, that’s just part of it. Yep. That’s part of the reason why people have sinus infections outside of just getting upper respiratory tract viral issues.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Absolutely. How many people are going to the ENT and getting a paleo diet prescription, probably not many.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, and there just gonna recommend steroids, Flonase, steroids, antihistamine, they’re not really ever get to the root cause that’s the problem and so It’s really good that people are bringing these things to the light, you know, this guy Dr. Mehta, I think it’s Dr. the NeilMed guy, he’s really been on top of it, which is great. I mean this is an MD that’s talking about using really good options to clean out your nose and then you know having more of these sprays together is really good and having things that can add to them, I mean, just amazing and a lot of these viruses live in your nose so preventatively we can be on top of it, you’re out with a bunch of people, you know, instead of being overly worried about washing your hands which you know, that’s fine, wash your hands but flush your nose, easiest thing, flush your nose.
Evan Brand: Totally more valuable in my opinion for sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So guys, to reach out to Evan, evanbrand.com. Evan is available worldwide for health consultation support. I am as well, Dr. J, justinhealth.com, we are here to help you out. We’ll put some links here. Give us a little bit of time. I’ll put the links down below very soon so you can see some of the products that we use. Also, we’ll put some of the products that we recommend from our own store so you guys can get an idea of what we like. All right, any questions feel free to put them in the chat. We appreciate it. Share with family and friends, they could benefit and have a phenomenal day. Take care.
Evan Brand: Take care. See you next week.
How to Get Your Energy Back Post-Infection | Podcast #365
When people start to feel better after an infection, it is often tempting to return to previous levels of work, leisure, and social activities. However, too soon, trying to do too much can often be counter-productive. It is easy to get caught up in a ‘boom and bust cycle of activity that can prolong your recovery.
Dr. J and Evan discuss that if fatigue and other symptoms persist, it’s important to remember to allow yourself time to recuperate by finding the right balance of rest, relaxation, and activity for your circumstances. It is essential to listen to your body and gradually build a physical and emotional recovery plan that can help you get back to your life and stay on track without experiencing too many setbacks.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
5:11 – The essential vitamins to boost your immune system
10:12 – What is the goal of the Krebs Cycle?
14:06 – Mitochondria and microbiota dysfunction in viral pathogens;
17:12 – The role of mitochondria, oxidative stress, and the response to antioxidants in chronic fatigue
20:08 – The neurotransmitters from amino acids and tryptophan pathways in B6 deficiency
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With Evan Brand, really excited today. We’re gonna have a nice conversation on how to get your energy back post-infection. This is the topic that we’ve been getting a lot from our patients and again a lot of our inspired podcasts and videos come from real life clinical work with patients. So, we’re excited to bring you the real-life actionable information here to improve your health. Evan, how you doing today man? What’s cooking?
Evan Brand: Hey. Doing pretty well, uh, cooked some bacon this morning and that was about it with some organic blueberries and so I’m feeling good. my brain is clear and I look forward to helping people on this energy conversation, you know, so many people have chronic fatigue post-infection and they’re not fully bouncing back and so, I think that there are some easy low hanging fruit strategies that we can talk about but I’m just gonna jump straight to the big smoking gun which is looking at your mitochondria. We’re seeing a lot of issues with mitochondrial dysfunction or mitochondrial damage. I’m also seeing issues with neurotransmitters. So, I think, if you are to pick one and only one functional medicine test to look at to investigate yourself after this infection and fatigue, it would be the organic acids because you can get a great window into not only your gut health. We know that with infections, it does damage the gut, we know that there are ACE2 receptors in the gut so people that are ending up with irritable bowel or diarrhea or other problems during and post infection, we can look at that. A stool might be smart too but if you had to start with only one thing maybe the window into your gut via urine organic acids would be good enough. But more importantly, I want to see what the heck is going on with mitochondria and what kind of damage do we have because once you have the data then you can put together a protocol to fix it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% agree. So, we know with chronic inflammation, especially like, post-viral inflammation. We know one of the biggest drivers is gonna be oxidative stress, right? So, oxidation is nothing more than your body losing electrons, right? And one of the big things that helps oxidation within any type of infection pre, ideally, we’re doing these things pre to mitigate al of the oxidative stress that’s happening at the mitochondrial level but simple low hanging fruit, out of the gates, is gonna be glutathione, vitamin C, these are really powerful antioxidants. Vitamin D even kind of fits in that category, right? Your big antioxidants are ADEK, um, I’m sorry, no, those are your fat-soluble vitamins but E is gonna be an antioxidant A is gonna be an antioxidant, right? I would even say E and K would for sure but your B and C are gonna be your water-soluble kind of more antioxidants for sure but the big are gonna plug in, you know, post-viral oxidative stress and/or pre is glutathione and vitamin C, out of the gates. And we can also look at low-hanging fruit on the mitochondrial side, which plugs into the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain is gonna be B1, which is thiamine. I would say B vitamins as a whole was great but B1 has a major, major role and I’d even say B5, as well, pantothenic acid. So, you have thiamine, B1, right? You have Riboflavin, B2. You have niacin, B3; Pantothenic acid, B5; Pyridoxine, B6; biotin, B7; folate, B9; B12 is your methylcobalamin or hydroxyl or adenosine. And so, we’re talking B1 and B5 are gonna be big when it comes to post-viral fatigue. Those are really, really important nutrients that we can add in out of the gates and, why it’s all of this oxidative stress that’s happening when this infection is present. And so, the more you can do things like hydrate, keep inflammatory foods down like the excess Omega-6 fatty acids, um, keep the carbohydrate and the sugar in check, right? That’s gonna play a major, major role in not adding fuel to the fire if you will as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and you can do oral glutathione. So, we have a combination product, which is an acetylated glutathione along with an acetylcysteine. So, you can give your body the nutrients to make more. You can give the precursors but then you can also take just straight glutathione. There are some liposomal versions. There’s reduced glutathione. There’s a nebulizer version that you can take so you can inhale glutathione if you feel that there was some lung involvement. You may consider doing both. I personally did both. I did oral and I continued to do oral glutathione daily and then, also, during the acute situation, nebulized glutathione with silver. And then, you mentioned B vitamins and you can measure all this, right? So that’s the important thing is, you know, you’re shouting out all these different names but people can look at this, right? We can look at this on organic acids. We can look at the various B6, B12. You can’t look at every single nutrient in the body but you can look at a ton of nutrients from one urine sample. So, it’s pretty awesome. And then, vitamin C, believe it or not, we’re seeing a lot of issues with viral infection and acute scurvy, which is pretty interesting. If you just put it some of this data and scurvy into the research, I guess, it’s due to the oxidative stress. It’s happening quickly and every single person I’m seeing post-infection is showing low vitamin C. So, we’re just keeping people on 2 to 3 grams every day. We’re doing a powdered version with a mixed ascorbate. So, you probably don’t want to do just straight ascorbic acid and you probably wanna do like a sodium ascorbate, magnesium ascorbate, if you can get some citrus bioflavonoids in there too and just take it ongoing. Don’t wait until you’re sick. We, as a family, we just take vitamin C ongoing because we know it’s important for the health of your capillaries and all that. Can you speak on that for a minute? Like vitamin C and skin and collagen, I mean there’s a role in other things. People think vitamin C, immune, but there’s other benefits to see, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Vitamin C plugs into making collagen, which is all of the connective tissue for your skin, uh, hair, you know, cartilage, vitamin C is really important for that. Vitamin C is a very similar molecular structure as glucose, right? Don’t quote me but it’s similar to I think C6H12O6 or O8, it’s right in that molecular area, looks very similar. So, what does that mean? That means, vitamin C has a docking site on the macrophage that actually goes and gobbles up bacteria and potential viruses and it’s gonna use that vitamin C that docks onto that macrophage to deal with the oxidation. So, I kind of think of it as like a firefighter going into a house and the vitamin C is like that fire fighter bringing that hose to squelch that fire, to squelch it, right? That’s kind of what I see vitamin C as, right? And, it’s almost like with the macrophage, it has a docking site and that glucose can actually come in there because it looks very molecularly similar to vitamin C and it can almost dock on that receptor site on that macrophage and take that vitamin C where to be used. It’s almost like giving the fire fighter a water hose, taking the water hose out and giving him a gas hose and he doesn’t even know. It’s almost like that and that’s why glucose and high levels of glucose and when it comes to a lot of these post-viral illnesses, you’re gonna see people that have very high levels of blood sugar, insulin resistance and even the extreme on the diabetes side are gonna have most of the side effects of most of the issues partly because of the oxidative stress, partly because of poor levels, you know, when you have insulin resistance that’s gonna affect oxygenation, right? Because, you’re not gonna have good blood flow and when you have poor blood flow and poor oxygenation, we need oxygen to plug into that mitochondria as well. It’s part of, you know, the key nutrients, right? We talked about B vitamins, B1, B5, very important to plug into the Krebs cycle. Well, guess what, when you have a high level of blood glucose and you’re on that pre-diabetic to diabetic side, right, 110 to 126mg/dl on the blood glucose side, your body has to process that and if you just go pull up, you know mitochondria, Krebs cycle and nutrients, right, you’re gonna see all the nutrients that are involved in that Krebs cycle to process that glucose because how it works in the Krebs cycle, everything gets funneled down to acetyl CoA, right? So, you have glucose comes to acetyl CoA, fatty acids come to acetyl CoA, they can also go this way into ketones and then you have protein coming down to acetyl CoA. Acetyl CoA pumps around the Krebs cycle twice and if you look, there’s gonna be nutrients that have to come in there to help that acetyl CoA to come around and a lot of those nutrients are gonna be B vitamins, magnesium, amino acids and so, if you’re coming in with lots of glucose and you’re not bringing in a lot of nutrients to funnel down to the acetyl CoA side, you’re gonna run that Krebs cycle twice and you’re gonna be using more B vitamins than you’re coming in. So, you can actually create a lot of nutrient deficiencies and oxidative stress when you consume a lot more glucose because it’s a transaction fee for your body to process energetically.
Evan Brand: Nice. Nice. That’s a great way to put it. And, the truth is people are coming into this infection with nutrient deficiencies already due to bacterial overgrowth problems, Candida problems, maybe post-antibiotic therapy, you know, they have issues with the gut now and they’re not making enough of their nutrients in their gut. And so, a lot of people will just depend on diet and they’ll simply, well, can I just get enough on diet, can I just eat liver and grass-fed steak and all that and get enough nutrients from that and I’ll say, look I’ve tested and I know, you have too. Over a thousand people and many of those people were already dialed in with their diet for years before they got to us. Paleo, carnivore, autoimmune, paleo, we’ve had people that have been doing an incredibly job with nutrient density and they still show up with nutrient deficiencies and so I would love if everyone could just eat their way out of this situation but I just think with the modern stress that we’re under we’re dumping a lot of those Bs. You’re mentioning all these that are fueling this cycle. We’re so depleted and burned out emotionally, physically, chemically, we’re exposed to toxins. We’re just not living in Paleo time, so Paleo, you can’t just like paleo your way out of this and you know, that’s why I used to call my podcast years ago ‘Not just Paleo’ and then I got rid of it, just call it Evan Brand now but, um, that was my whole thought at the beginning. It was like, man, if everybody could just eat their way out this and get enough Bs in the diet then you and I wouldn’t be needed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Let me just kind of break this down for people just so they can get a better understanding of what’s happening here. So, when we have oxidative stress, oxidative stresses, we’re losing electrons. What’s the whole goal of the Krebs Cycle? The whole goal of the Krebs cycle is essentially gathering up electrons. Okay, so, you have fats like I mentioned before, they’re all funneling down to Acetyl-CoA. Proteins all funneling down to acetyl-CoA, right? Then you can see on the carbohydrate side like I mentioned, look at a lot of the nutrients that are involved in funneling the carbohydrates down to acetyl-CoA, different B vitamins, okay?
Evan Brand: Zoom in so,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: B1, B2, B3, magnesium, all play really important roles and then look at the carbohydrates, look at the amino acids that are involved. Cysteine, that’s a major precursor of glutathione, serine, really important for stress. Glycine, that’s your major amino acid in collagen, right? This is why, when you’re stressed and you’re sick, it’s why your grandma tells you to have chicken soup, right, especially with the whole bone in there because you’re getting a lot of these amino acids in a liquid form. So, if your tummy doesn’t feel good and you’re nauseous, right, because the infections tend to really cause nausea because your energy is going to fight an infection versus digestion. So, it’s trying to shut that down. That’s why your grandma said chicken soup, right? Ideally, we keep the noodles out now. Now, look at the fats, right, look at where the fats can go so the fats go down to acetyl-CoA but it can also go and create these ketones, right. This is beta-hydroxybutyrate. This is a ketone, okay? Now, really important here. So, we have this acetyl-CoA, right, this is kind of our energy currency that everything gets converted from our three major macronutrients, fats, carbs and proteins. And again, if you’re listening at home, there’s a video version of this of me going through it. I know, it’s a little confusing but I’m going to try to make, break it down. Acetyl-CoA comes around this citric acid cycle or Krebs cycle. It’s the same thing. It goes around twice, okay? And you can see GSH that stands for glutathione. Fe stands for Iron. So, if you’re a female and you’re very low iron or you’re anemic or vegetarian vegan, that could be a problem.
Evan Brand: So, let me pause there, really quick, because I want to point out something. You’re showing here on this cycle that you’ve got to have not only glutathione but you’ve got to have iron so you gave a shout out to the anemic women and what I want to point out is that the women that came into this infection, anemic, which is extremely common. Women have hormonal imbalances. It’s an epidemic problem so many women have heavy periods or maybe post childbirth, their period was screwed up and they’re having heavy menstruation. So, they’re coming into this anemic or they’re coming into this with low ferritin and then that’s compounded by maybe a mold exposure where now they have low glutathione levels. The way you’re showing this cycle here, if you come in with low iron and low glutathione, you’re in big trouble.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re in big trouble. And, women are more predisposed because if they have hormonal imbalances, guess what happens to their period, they get heavier. Heavier period, they’re just gonna lose that iron. Now, men on the other side, men have it, you know, they can have increased iron. They can cause oxidative stress because iron is like, you know can be like gasoline on the fire if it does get too high, right? But you can see glutathione, iron, you can see B vitamins, you can see magnesium, you can even see manganese here and you can see different B vitamins. And, what they do is you’re creating NAD and FADH and they’re grabbing hydrogen, they’re grabbing electrons, okay? So, typically comes around here twice and you get usually two NADHs and one FADH2 per cycle and then essentially all of these things will jump into the electron transport chain next. If I could find that section here, but the electron transport chain is the next big step for that kind of gathers nutrients but for really, for today’s talk, this is the really most important thing and then just kind of highlight, you can see some of these toxins over here that come in, right? You can see fluoride, Hg is Mercury, As is gonna be, uh, arsenic, Al is gonna be aluminum. So, you can see some of these toxins, how they can kind of come in there and sabotage some of these things. And, to kind of highlight one thing, this is an article we saw here. Mitochondria and Microbiota dysfunction with post-viral issues, you can see how the gut microbiome also plays a certain role and why is that? Well, I think, because 80% of the immune is in the gut so if you have a pathogenic or dysbiotic microbiome, it’s gonna affect toxins being produced, right? It’s gonna put you right here in a hyperinflammatory state, right? We already have a lot more cytokines being produced if we have an illness and so we have to be able to calm down our immune system’s inflammation to what’s happening from an immune stress standpoint. And so, the microbiome plays a big role, iron dysregulation, reactive oxygen species, right? Vitamin C plays a major role here. Vitamin, uh, glutathione plays a major role there as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, right there, look at that one, the mitochondrial, the heightened inflammatory oxidative state may lead to mitochondrial dysfunction and so this is what we’re seeing on paper. We’re seeing this in the stool test. We’re seeing this in the organic acid test, this issue with the gut with the mitochondria.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It talks about platelet damage too which is important because what do platelets do, those are your clotting factors. And so, if we can have increased coagulation cascades, that means more clotting, right? And, you can see more clotting events, more thrombosis is that’s a blood clot, right? And so, you can see furthermore, mitochondrial oxidative just make, may contribute to microbiota dysbiosis altering coagulation and fueling inflammatory oxidative response leading to vicious cycles of events. So, this is really important and so things that we can do to be on top of the fatigue is gonna be the same things that we can do to help mitigate a lot of the inflammation. That’s gonna be keeping blood sugar in check, adding in some of these additional B vitamins, um, adding in anti-inflammatory anticoagulants. What do those look like? That could be ginger. That could be curcumin, which has anti-inflammatory and anticoagulation effects. That could be adding some extra Cod liver oil that has more vitamin A in it, which is a really powerful antioxidant but it also has natural blood thinning aspects because of the extra omega-3s in there. So, there’s different things we can do to really help reduce a lot of that inflammation. Any comments on that, Evan?
Evan Brand: Yeah. On the more intense side of supporting hypercoagulability, lumbrokinase is gonna be your most powerful. That’s your earthworm-based enzyme, which is just a cool, cool thing. Natto, there’s also serratiopeptidase, so there are other enzymes that you can use and I personally take those. I take lumbrokinase, one per day just ongoing and it’s been very helpful. I also did a podcast with Dr. Thomas Levy, all about vitamin C IV and he’s got some dark field microscopy photos of people that we’re having blood clotting issues and the vitamin C along with ozone and IV was like a game changer and vitamin C can help energy too, so I don’t want to get too deep in the rabbit hole of blood clots but we’ll just say that the vitamin C is helpful for energy also.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I want to show you guys one other journal article here, role of mitochondrial oxidative stress and antioxidants when it comes to chronic fatigue and so one kind of thing here, it talks about the known role of oxidative stress and how it can relate to essentially fatigue, as well as, potential, uh, specific therapeutic treatments for the mitochondria so that’s really powerful. And, you know, here are some of the big things, they’re gonna talk about vitamin C, talk about B vitamins, talk about glutathione and then also some of the more natural anti-inflammatory things but you know, each study is going to find out focus on a couple of their major things but, people in the literature are looking at these things. It is real and, um, we’re seeing it in our patients and we’re trying to apply some of these things to get people’s health back.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So, the way you look at this is what you can do to protect against oxidative stress, we covered that glutathione. What can we do to help support the Krebs cycle? We talked about B vitamins. You’ve also got just things that are gonna help the mitochondria in general, like CoQ10 and then also you can do things like PQQ and there’s other nutrients that actually create what’s called mitochondrial biogenesis where you can literally make new mitochondria. And so, I don’t think it’s in that paper, it does mention CoQ10 there but
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right here in the mitochondria, there are enzymes and coenzymes such as vitamin E, CoQ10 to remove ROS, that’s reactive oxygen species to prevent DNA damage. So, these are really powerful things that we can add in. For example, low CoQ10, they’ll see an increase in damage, so Coq10, PQQ, you know pyro quinolone, right? Vitamin E, and then, you know, we try to give Coq10 with vitamin E together for that same reason to prevent a lot of the oxidative stress while fueling the mitochondria. Any comments on that?
Evan Brand: Yeah. Look at the next part there too, talking about exercise. People that come in with chronic fatigue and how they’re having an increased oxidative stress after exercise and that’s a problem that we’re seeing a lot too is people that now are having, uh, post-exertional fatigue, people that are crashing. Even athletes that were really high performing people that now their performance is just in the tank and a lot of that is just this ongoing oxidative stress and mitochondrial damage that’s not, that’s not been supported and you can’t just exercise your way out of this and I get kind of annoyed when I see like those motivational videos of people that are really sweaty like you just nee to suck it up, you know, pain is weakness leaving the body. It’s like, no, you’re wrong, you got to fix the mitochondrial damage. I hate those like raw-raw videos because it’s ignoring all the nutrients. That video really needs to be talking about, hey get your glutathione up, get your ribose up, get your CoQ10 up, come on people, like that’s what he used to say.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And this is a similar marker that we use on the organic acid test, the one that we use 8-hydroxy-2-deoxyguanosine, this is very, very similar to that. But this is a marker for oxidative stress so we’ll actually use the same marker on a, um, on a mitochondrial test on the organic acid. So, we’ll look at some of these things to get a window of how stress these pathways are so that’s very powerful.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Ribose is amazing. Carnitine is amazing. Acetyl-L-carnitine is amazing. Also, you know, let’s hit the, let’s go up a little bit like that picture there was a like a neurotransmitter picture there that you had. Maybe, we should talk about that a little bit because it’s not directly gonna be a mitochondrial support, yeah, right there, but I think, that’s cool to point out too, which is that, if we’re coming in with nutrients like phenylalanine or tyrosine, eventually some of that may convert over to your neurotransmitters but then also your adrenal hormones like epinephrine and I think a lot of people and I know you see this too, a lot of people are showing up with just low brain chemistry across the board. And so, I’m thinking out loud with you that like, the real magic remedy is the mitochondrial support plus throwing in some of these neurotransmitter supports as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, that’s why we talked about B vitamins and I kind of went to the gamut, look how important B6 is in regarding the synthesis of tryptophan to serotonin, really important so you can see how B6 deficiency is really important in this process to convert this inflammatory product here, quinolinic acid, uh, back to tryptophan, it needs B6 or to avoid that whole thing it needs B6 so that’s really important. So, B6 is really important in the synthesis of amino acid tryptophan to serotonin, very important.
Evan Brand: And so, vegetarians, vegans, obviously, you’re gonna be at increased risk of issues and your recovery is not gonna be as good as someone who’s getting these good animal proteins because you’re gonna be getting adequate tryptophan and other nutrients from your animal-based products. So, even if we could get these people on eggs, if we could get these people on organ capsules, if we could get these people on even like a protein like, I’ve got one we call carnivore collagen, which is a like a beef peptide, I mean something you gotta supplement at some level if you’re not eating those foods. So, please, if you’re a vegetarian vegan and you’re exhausted then look at some of this and hopefully we can convince you to change and improve your diet a bit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. No, I totally agree. I think that’s really important. I want to see if there’s anything else here, I want to highlight now because that’s enough, that’s powerful enough. Anything else, you wanted to highlight there?
Evan Brand: Well, we hit the urine, we hit the stool. Looking at the gut, you showed the study about the gut changing, we’ve seen that, I mean, you and I were talking about that march of 2020, I mean that was 2 years ago. We were talking about being affected. And so, obviously, our message is the same that it’s always been is get your stool looked at so we can see what kind of dysbiosis do you have going on because if you’re taking all these supplements, you’re doing all these foods but you’ve got malabsorption or you’ve got gut inflammation. You’re not gonna, you know, people say you are what you eat but you really what you digest from what you eat. So, if you have all these other issues in your gut, the grass-fed steak is not gonna be as valuable to you. Now, I’m not saying stop eating it, I’m saying still eat it but we’ve got to improve the digestion and assimilation of that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110%. And one thing here, I just want to highlight here, just to kind of this article, it’s talking about mitochondrial function in infections in the gut because we’re trying to talk about mitochondrial and energy post-illness, that could be a viral illness, it could also be a gut illness, right? Because, it’s talking right here, even virus dedicated virulence factors and talks about downstream of an infection. It’s fascinating that a plethora of immune responses but, uh, be it against viruses, bacteria or LPS. LPS is lipopolysaccharides or endotoxin, this can come from H. pylori, this can come from SIBO, or dysbiotic bacteria and they strongly impact tht mitochondria which is really, really important because they’re toxic, they kind of throw a monkey wrench in how the FADH and the NAD is kind of moving around the Krebs cycle, collecting hydrogens and then bringing into electron transport chain. It talks about, um, governed by the mitochondria can be translated into active therapeutics to boost immunity against pathogens to over immune responses under control in the case of inflammatory disorders. So, essentially, the more you have these infections there, the more inflammation your immune system creates that can actually impact your mitochondria. Again, when you have a lot of these illnesses, it’s not just the stress from the illness, it’s the immune response from your own immune system that creates inflammation that can actually disrupt your energy pathway. So, sometimes, you’re just fighting against yourself. And so, using nutrients to help modulate the immune response i.e., glutathione, Vitamin D, vitamin C, right, really important nutrients there. I’d also say, you can do things like curcumin, or resveratrol as well. You can have immune modulating effects. These are powerful. So, it’s good to kind of get your immune system in check. Most people that are having longer term, we call it kind of long haulers type issue. It’s typically their immune system has over responded and it’s just creating so much inflammation. So here, this illness, they’re no longer testing positive for whatever this illness is and they’re prolonged 2 to 3 months out and they’re feeling like crap still, it’s because they really didn’t get their immune system’s inflammatory cascade in check afterwards.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. So, a couple comments. Number one, you can improve your energy by simply fixing your gut and that’s exactly what that data is showing and that’s exactly what you and I have seen and done clinically, hundreds and hundreds of times. People that were exhausted coming in, we give them a gut protocol, sometimes, not even giving them energy supplements because on paper they look good and all of a sudden, their energy level doubles and all we did is fix their gut so that’s the number one comment. And then number two comment is that, people need to stop waiting for some illness like this to take them down before they take this stuff serious. I mean, you and I are all about preventative approaches meaning getting your mitochondria, you gut, your brain chemistry getting all that stuff optimized now so that you’re a warrior on a daily basis so that when you do come across something like this and there probably will be more things like this that you do to get exposed to, you’re ready and you’re able to handle it and you’re not coming in so sick and looking for this emergency therapy at the end stage, it’s, in some cases, it’s too late. I think, a lot of times you can turn it around but you should have been working on your health years ago before you got this stage.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And a lot of it is, you know, anytime you have some type of illness coming up, the more you can be on top of a lot of these key immune modulating anti-inflammatory nutrients ahead of time and or during versus coming in at the end when the inflammation is super high. It’s like coming in when the fire is a little baby fire and knocking it out versus having a full five alarm and trying to stop it, right? That’s kind of the analogy. So, I always recommend telling people have a couple of nutrients. You may not be taking it everyday but they may in your medicine cabinet is kind of like a, um, you know, last ditch kind of effort to kind of come in there if you start to feel a little bit ill so on my line, we have Immune Supreme, which is nice because you have some green tea in there, you have some echinacea, you have some medicinal mushrooms, you have some antioxidants and some immune modulators, that’s kind of cool. Have that in your medicine cabinet. You start to feel the tiniest thing, start taking that to get that immune system, obviously, you can ratchet up, vitamin D, vitamin C. These are easy first line things, if you have any NAC or glutathione, we can ratchet that up. These are easy things that we can do to kind of take charge of our health and prevent our immune system from throwing us off.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. And, if you need help clinically, we do offer one-on-one consults around the world with people so we’re very blessed to be able to help so many people by getting the proper testing done, making the proper protocol to get you better. So, if you don’t test, you guess, you got to see what you’re up against first, look at your Bs, look at your gut, you know, once we get the data, we can help you more accurately and you’re gonna save a lot more money, a lot more time and a lot more suffering and you’re gonna get out of the dumps out of the trenches, out of the depths of hell, depression, whatever you’re dealing with. You’re gonna get out of that faster if you’re using clinical data and you have a tour guide to your body. So, if you need help clinically, you can reach out to Dr. J at justinhealth.com for consults worldwide or me, Evan Brand at evanbrand.com and we’re here for you guys. So, we look forward to helping you out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I appreciate it. Yeah. Anyone that wants to reach out, Evan already gave you the links, really appreciate it. Comments down below, I really appreciate your feedback on that and also, we’ll put links down below with some products that we chatted about. We have different ones that we recommend in our line. Just wherever you go, make sure you get them from a professional grade company because raw material does matter in the supplement world. You can buy, you know, the equivalent of the grass-fed steak from the local farmer or you can get it from McDonald’s, right? And so, we want to get the high-quality raw material that’s tested to make sure there’s no impurities and just building blocks are excellent. Evan, excellent chatting with you man, really appreciate it. Guys, um, have an awesome week and we’ll talk soon. Take care you all.
Evan Brand: Take care, now. Bye-Bye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.
Recovering From The Holidays | Podcast #362
The holiday season is meant to be a joyous occasion that brings family and friends together. But even amid all the excitement, there are often moments of stress and anxiety. If you are recovering from health issues, this broad spectrum of holiday emotions can challenge even your best intentions for recovery.
Dr. J and Evan Brand talk about these issues and handle them. Though the risk of relapse runs high during the holidays, it is not inevitable. If you are in recovery from any health issues, you can take steps to stay healthy and safe. Becoming aware of potentially triggering situations and knowing how to prepare for them can help minimize your risk of relapse and allow you to enjoy your holiday season truly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction;
3:15 – The link of EMF to overall health
8:43 – Helpful enzymes, foods, and tests for health recovery
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand, our post-holiday show. Today’s gonna be just a quick podcast on how to recover from holidays, uh, case you don’t know, my whole family has COVID right now, so we are dealing with that and doing all kinds of natural immune support, all the things that I talked about with my patients and talk about on the past to help improve and boost your immune system, so overall feeling actually pretty good, feeling pretty good, my family’s actually doing pretty descent so we are plowing through it, feeling great. Evan, how you doing man? How are the holidays for you?
Evan Brand: Doing really well and yeah like I told you before we hit record, sorry to hear that but also, it’s good to get it over with. We know that natural immunity is the best immunity far better than any other immunity that other people might like to convince you and that it is free and the best and most robust immunity. So, it’s amazing because paying attention to the media, you would think that you should be like laying out right now but here you are standing up at your standing desk, you’re doing your normal thing and you’re here on a podcast so I love to just blow through the narrative of the and blast through the fear. So, beyond that we’re doing great over here man, we’re ready to dive into the holiday talk and this time of year is where you get like 50-50. Like half the people are like, okay I’m gonna go haywire, I’m gonna eat whatever the hell I want and I don’t care and then the other people like, no way I gotta get dialed in, new year’s coming and for some reason January 1st is this symbolic day where people feel like they want to get stuff together. I encourage you to do it now, don’t wait until January to try to get yourself better and so this idea of like cheat days or the holidays are here so I’m gonna go off the rails, I personally don’t do that at all. I stay completely dialed in just because I know it’s gonna affect my brain it’s gonna affect my gut, I don’t wanna have that bad poop, I don’t wanna have bad sleep, I don’t wanna have skin outbreaks, so for me, personally, I do the same thing I always do. If I want like good treat and I want to feel like I’m getting something good, I might go for like a Siete cookie and it’s like maybe one gram of sugar per cookie max but I’m not just gonna go eat a bunch of gluten and rolls and dairy and all that just because it’s the holiday so I personally think like this idea of like a cheat day or a cheat weekend, I just think, it’s crap because you and I’ve talked about this before but like gluten antibodies, they can go up for months after eating gluten so for me, I’m not just gonna go do that and set off the immune system for potentially that long.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, I totally agree. So, what we kind of did is we had, um, squash pie from a true food kitchen, we bought one or two of those and we used that as kind of our dessert so it’s kind of a gluten-free, grain-free dessert option. So, we had that true food kitchen’s great. Their desserts are amazing. We also had some bacon-wrapped dates which were awesome, I mean you get the sweets and savory there and then we also got some poblano peppers, we put some cream cheese in it, again, cream cheese is a little bit better than regular cheese, a little more lactose casein, um, lowering that at least but a little bit of dairy and we wrap bacon around that. So, those were kind of our two I got the grill fired up. Got some atria buys just cut them really, really thin. Put some toothpicks in them and just had a lot of finger food like that and that was nice, really simple, really easy, um, so we try to, you know, try to mitigate a lot of the destruction by choosing healthier, less inflammatory options but also things that allow us to feel pretty satiated and pretty full and not have these blood sugar swings that people get when they don’t have enough protein or fat with their meal either.
Evan Brand: Yeah. If you want a crazy book, we had a question coming on the live chat about detoxing from EMF coming back to work with headaches and this does pertain to the holidays too. I’ve been reading this over the past weekend. It’s a book called, “The invisible rainbow”, it’ll blow your mind so if you want to read that book it’s all the scientific studies organized into one place about EMF exposure and how we’ve known since the 1800s when the telegram and the telegram wires first came out, people were having reactions to electromagnetic fields and this certainly does affect you. So, all the people just got new, uh, apple air pods, and apple watches and all these, uh, cell towers that they keep on their wrists and in their pocket, you know, I think it is smart to try to mitigate some of that going into the new year. There’s some studies in that book too about EMF and blood sugar and how even people that were dialed in with their diet had elevations and fasting glucose simply by being exposed to radio frequencies so all you with your new tech toys that you got over the holidays, I would encourage you, I think seeing is believing, not everyone is sensitive, meaning they’re not going to feel it but at a biological level there probably is something going on so you could get an rf meter, there’s one out of Canada called Safe and Sound, that’s what I used and I’ve measured, I stood face to face with the cell phone tower and that was about 10,000 microwatts per square meter, an apple watch that a friend of ours had was 2 million microwatts per square meter so people freak out about cell towers but they’ve got. I can’t even do the math, a 100x the radiation of a cell tower on their wrist all day so on the EMF subject, I would not use or recommend those devices.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, what I do is I have a little tripod here. I take my phone and I put it on a tripod and I put it in front of me and I’ll just use siri to kind of call my patients like that so I’ll put it away from me which is nice. That way it’s not on my person and then I use, um, just little holster like this and I tuck my phone in like this and a couple of things you can do so you can actually, I don’t do this personally but you can slit the side here and you can put some aluminum foil in and that will create a protective barrier with the phone going into your skin so that’s an option if you’re really sensitive. I put it on my back right hip so there’s a lot of tissue there. There’s a lot of bone, a lot of meat, a lot of glute muscle, um, and the cell phone. It really is exponential, it has a logarithmic intensity so the first inch is the most intense and that it logarithmically drops off. Now, if you put the, your phone in your front pocket and it’s right over your ovaries or uh, genitals, that’s a problem, right? Because that’s gonna negatively, now your like inside a couple of inches of that tissue and it’s more sensitive tissue and you don’t have a lot of meat i.e., thick muscle like the glute or a lot of bone in the way, right, that tissue’s kind of much more dense and so ideally, you know, if you’re a female, keep it in your back pocket, don’t put it over tissue like that. That’s bad. Don’t put it in your front pocket female or male, keep it in your back pocket or get a holster like I do, put it right in the back part of your hip and if you’re more sensitive just a little slit in and put some aluminum foil right up against it and that’ll give a protective barrier.
Evan Brand: Yeah. A lot of times, they sell like silver fabric too, like, I got, I’ve got a shirt that’s like a silver lined shirt, I’ve tested it. it literally, I mean I had a cell phone right in front of me, it was like a million microwatts per square meter, throw in the meter just haywire and I put the shirt on put the meter inside my shirt and it was nothing it was in the green so a lot of these are lined with silver. These fabrics that are really cool so I have had some sensitive clients in the UK who, we’ve got them some of that EMF protective clothing and it has been helpful like you said distance is your friend so getting away from that is key and then I do all my calls just on my computer so I use google voice or I’ll use skype and so I’m just on a hardware connection so I’m using, I’m making zero, uh, radioactive calls during the day or like you and I know we do a lot of zoom calls with our clients too, so zoom, facetime those are good options if you guys are having to do a lot of calls for work and mitigate your risk, you can do facetime on the computer which is what I do and it’s a zero RF way of talking to people and then were hardwired, I’m hardware, I know you go, like wireless headset but I go hardwired on everything.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And I use this headset right here so then the signal, the receiver’s here versus so there’s about an inch or so of tissue, uh, you know, fabric here because the phone really is the first inch is the most and where it’s really concerning is when you have those I, uh, with the little pods in the ear, they go right deep in the ear and everything the receiver is right in there and so there’s not a lot of tissue between you and your external auditory meatus and going into your brain. Something like this where it’s denser and it’s actually more outside or I use these on purpose because it’s the signal is in here and it’s farther away from the head. But in general, um, Bluetooth is pretty weak though, in general, like, Bluetooth only can travel like 30 or 40 feet so I’m not really worried about that. I’m not worried about the 5g signals that are traveling miles upon miles upon miles. A 30-foot signal isn’t as big of a deal as one that can go miles and miles so, I think, if you can plug in, that’s great or use a speakerphone or you have the talk on your phone at least an inch or two away because even apple in their handbook when I understand fact, check me or not, it says you wanna hold your phone at least an inch away from their head, your head. So, that’s really important.
Evan Brand: I think there was something in the fine print about that about the emissions that come from it. Yeah. On the topic of more, you know, back of back, back to like diet and food exposure and that kind of thing I know you and I both sell professional enzymes that we use clinically with people so I think that’d be a good strategy if you do feel like for some reason, you’re off the rails or maybe you’re not dialed back in yet. I do recommend, like, a broad-spectrum enzyme. Just because you can start to break down dairy and gluten molecules using enzymes so I’m not telling you to eat those things but people got to live and people are not always gonna be dialed in. So, I think a good broad-spectrum enzyme would be a smart thing to do and then first thing of the year that I know you would recommend as well as me is I would get some labs done, I would look at your stool, I would look at your urine and start your year with some data so that you’re not coming into the year blindly. You’re coming into the year with some information about your mitochondria, how they are performing. What do your neurotransmitters look like? How’s your dopamine and serotonin levels? What about your nutrients? How’s your vitamin C? How’s your B vitamins? What’s your glutathione status? Do you have bacterial overgrowth? Do you have Candida? Do you have parasites? Do you have gut inflammation? Do you have gluten antibodies? And your immune system is pissed off right now, I think it’d be a great strategy to start off the year with getting data. So, if you need help clinically, you can reach out to us, we can run these labs on you, we send them to your home, you do an at-home stool and at-home urine, we’ve done this literally thousands of times, you can get over a hundred pieces of data just with one stool and one urine sample so I’d highly recommend that, I think that’s the best thing you can do. I think, it’s great to get all the foundational pieces in order but when you really want to tease things apart and figure out what you’re up against, you’ve got a test not guess and so if you go buy some random energy supplement or some random fat burning supplement or some random, you know pre-workout formula, you don’t really know what you’re doing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So, just kind of foundational things out of the gate, you’re through the holidays, try to mitigate the damage by choosing foods that are gonna be less inflammatory still give you the feeling of your enjoying life right, you’re cheating a little bit but it’s mitigating the damage like Evan said, higher quality broad-spectrum enzymes and acids especially when you’re eating those food. There’s a lot of foods that you’re more intolerant to. You have a hard time breaking it down and the lack of breakdown of that food can create more bloating and gas and constipation. So, we’ll put our recommended digestive supports below in the links below so you can see them. We have different HCl, enzymes and bile support products and then we have different binders or detoxification support with glutathione or sulfur or aminos, down below. Also, the immune support I’m using right now, just to give you kind of top five things I’m taking right now, of course vitamin D, of course an acetylcysteine, really important, um, vitamin C, quercetin, and I would say reishi mushroom is an excellent thing, these are all things that I’m doing right now, of course, a couple other things that I’m doing, uh, preventively are going to be sinus flushes where I rotate between either a sinus flush with saline between iodine, silver and hydrogen peroxide, all diluted and I’ve been doing a little bit of nebulizing hydrogen peroxide. Now, I’ve been just taking the 5mL saline blister packs and doing about 3 to 4 drops of hydrogen peroxide in there which brings the amount to about point one percent and that works really good just trying to keep, um, kind of disinfecting that upper respiratory tract airway. That’s where the virus tends to replicate and grow and if we can knock that down with flushing or nebulizing that prevents the viral load from going up which that’s what creates all the inflammation right so if you keep the viral load down, keep some good natural anti-inflammatory going, keep your immune system supported of course, sugar suppresses your immune system get 12 hours of sleep at night all these are foundational things out of the gates.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And your lungs believe it or not make hydrogen peroxide so when people, there’s you know, the internet supposed fact checkers which in the court of law now Facebook admitted that their fact checkers are simply opinions and they’re not truly fact checkers so that’s important for people to know but there’s been some stuff online about hydrogen peroxide telling people this is dangerous and all that. We make hydrogen peroxide in our bodies, so you’re taking it at a diluted rate. I took it straight, I did this straight three percent to see how it was, it burned a little bit in my nose but other than that it was fine, I did a whole podcast with doctor Thomas Levy on this. He’s a cardiologist, who’s been speaking, I think, he did, uh, a talk with Dr. Pergola about the topic so if you wanna listen to it, it’s Thomas Levy, we talked all about the hydrogen peroxide nebulization and the IV vitamin C which he’s using for the rouleaux formation from people that are getting the injection, uh, he’s using IV vitamin C to help break up the blood so really, really cool resource. Thomas Levy, he’s a genius.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Yeah. So, you want to bring it down to about point one percent so it’s more gentle. If you go a little too much, you know, it’ll just give you a little burning and such and make sure it’s saline that you’re using. I use blister pack saline. I’ll put the link down for that as well. You want one that’s specific for a nebulizer just so you don’t irritate your respiratory tract. You wanna make sure it’s good, clean, and sterile saline with just the right amount of minerals to be in harmony with that, um, mucosal tissue. Well, anything else here, Evan, you wanna highlight? We’ll keep it really quick today.
Evan Brand: I’m happy you’re doing good and you’re doing all the right thing so definitely all the things that should be headline news, the things that are very safe and effective and as Dr. Levy made the point to me, you’re talking pennies or less than pennies per dose and some of the supplements and nutrients that you’re taking so just in regards to cost this is almost free, the protocol you are using, this is very safe at-home early treatment protocol so I’m just really proud you’re doing that and spreading the word and hopefully we can help more people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, Evan. Really appreciate it and guys listening if you wanna get your 2022 off the right start and you have some health issues you wanna dive into feel free to head over to evanbrand.com to reach out to Evan or myself, Dr. J in justinhealth.com, we are here to support your natural health kind of root health needs. We’re here for you, we’ll put our recommended products and things that we chatted about in the description notes below and if you guys enjoyed, shared with your friends and family and write us a review, we’ll all the links down below, you guys have a phenomenal holiday season and I hope your Christmas and holidays are great.
Evan Brand: Yep. We’ll see you all soon. Take it easy, stay strong, keep your head up, and stay motivated. Don’t give in to fear, everything’s gonna be okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care you all. Bye now.
Evan Brand: See ya.
Signs and Solution for Gut Inflammation and Leaky Gut | Podcast #351
In this video, Dr. J and Evan stress the importance of what you eat and how it impacts the rest of your body. However, what you might not realize is how your food is digested in your body, and when it gets inflamed and leaky, how do you fix it?
A lack of digestive enzymes can cause leaky gut syndrome—another unfortunate result of chronic inflammation in the digestive system. Many culprits cause leaky gut, including stress, medications, poor food choices or quality, alcohol, cigarettes, and even hormone changes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
1:08 – Poor Gut Health Connection to Virus.
4:31 – What is the role of bile movement and production?
11:16 – The influence of gut michrobiota on Inflammation and Insulin Resistance
19:29 – General recommendations on carbohydrates and for a healthier gut
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hi! Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today, we’re gonna be talking about the signs and solutions of gut inflammation and gut permeability or leaky gut for short. Really exciting topic. We see it a lot in our patients every single day. Evan, how are we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Hey. I’m doing really well. I can’t remember if we covered this on the podcast or not, this specific study but there was a paper that came out all about leaky gut and worsen outcomes with the virus and so people could put in the, you know, what virus in PubMed and leaky gut and we’re finding that a lot of people with leaky gut that’s actually one of the precursors and that’s what’s leading to worse outcomes so this is more important, It’s always important but this is more important now because we know that there’s a massive link and I’ll actually pull this up here and I’ll show you this, American Society for Microbiology, they did this. Did we talk about this yet or not?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s talk about it. Let’s go ahead.
Evan Brand: This particular paper. Let’s bring it up there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let me check here. Oh yeah. Let me add it on. Go ahead.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So, there we go. So, poor gut health is connected to severe blank, new research shows and long story short, you can go into this microbiology article but long story short they actually show a picture too. Let me see if I can get to that picture. Here we go. That was the picture. I think, we already showed this picture but forgive me and people listening on audio. Basically, we’re just showing that viral particles with a leaky gut are gonna be able to get into the circulation and that’s gonna increase your inflammatory response so the real goal of today is making sure that your gut is in good shape because therefore you’re not gonna have leakage into your circulation. You’re gonna be far far better if you have that healthy gut barrier. So, that was really kind of the spark notes of that but that’s like a 19 pages paper that you can dive into and many people I think have thought of leaky gut as kind of trendy topic that only people like you and I talk about but this is finally, actually getting into the mainstream. So, I hope gastroenterologists are gonna realize the importance of addressing the gut and I hope they actually start taking it more seriously. Right now, it’s just antibiotics that’s really the only thing that gastroenterologists do for gut, right? I mean steroids maybe and immune modulating drugs in the case of like, ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s but beyond that there’s not really much leaky gut conversation going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. There’s not and again, really, a leaky gut has an effect, right? Or we’ll call it gut permeability, right? If you go on PubMed, a leaky gut is like a slung. If you want to really find it, you want to look at, you know, gastrointestinal permeability, right? These are gonna be the big things, it’s the tight junctions, the epithelial cells and the small intestine, they start to come apart like my fingers here interlocked like I’m saying a prayer, they come apart and then you can see lipopolysaccharides undigested food particulate can slip out. So, this is, um, this is part of the major, major mechanism. Now, with gut permeability, it’s an effect not a cause so I always tell patients, we don’t go in and treat leaky gut, we treat the corresponding vectors of inflammation that drive gut permeability so that could be food allergens, that could be immune stressors like virus, parasites, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, general dysbiosis, poor digestion, antibiotic exposure, creating rebound overgrowth, fungal overgrowth, you know, just poor digestion, lots of stress, increased sympathetic tone and adrenal stress, that’s shutting down the digestive system and making gut permeability more probable. So, these are the big vectors so we always wanna draw a line. What’s the root cause and what’s the effect and gut permeability is in the effect not necessarily a cause.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ve seen a lot of, even advertisements now on social media for all these leaky gut healing formulas and that kind of stuff and it always has the word heal involved but you could take as much glutamine and whatever else you want. You could go into an elemental diet and all of that. It’s not gonna get rid of these big root causes and certainly for me, I tried some gut support but ultimately it was resolving my parasite infections. That was the most important thing for me and so, you can test for this. This is not an uncommon situation; you and I personally and clinically see parasites every single week. So, when you hear this idea of like, oh, it’s a third world country problem, you haven’t traveled to Mexico or anything like that. That’s just crap, I see it all the time and I had them and I was not out of the country and I had multiple parasite infections and then that affects your bowel flow, right? Can we talk about the bowel for a minute, what’s the role there, because you and I talked about how you have to have adequate bile to act as sort of a natural antimicrobial but how is this happening. What do you think are the big driving factors for why bile production is just not good?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, first off, we look at the domino rally of digestion. The first thing that has to happen is good, nice aesthetic pH in the stomach. So, we need adequate HCl in the stomach, hydrochloric acid that lowers the pH and again, lower pH tends to have an antimicrobial effect, right? So, if we have to bring the pH down a little bit, that makes it harder for bugs to grow and that pH is also responsible for activating a lot of proteolytic enzymes in our stomach so if we have a good pH, we activate our enzymes, that starts the digestive cascade, we make it harder for bugs to grow and then once all that kind that mixed up food and enzymes and acids and all the stuff in our stomach is all mixed up. That’s called chyme, C-H-Y-M-E, that gets released into our small intestine, our pancreas then produces a bunch of bicarbonate to bring that pH back up to around neutral but that pH being nice and acidic, it triggers bicarbonate and then it also triggers cholecystokinin production, CCK, which then causes the gallbladder to contract so then you get a whole bunch of bile that comes out, you get a bunch of bicarbonate that comes out of the pancreas but then you’re also gonna get a bunch of lipase and proteolytic enzymes, trypsin, chymotrypsin lipase, lipolytic enzymes is coming out of the pancreas as well. So then, you bring the pH back up, you add the fat digestive enzymes, the proteolytic enzymes and then you also stimulate that bile production which then emulsifies that fat. Think of emulsification as you have a nice greasy pan where you cook some bacon on, right? Throw under water, you feel the fat on the pan, throw some dawn soap on there, it emulsifies it. It breaks that up so then you can get it all out the intestinal tract and be able to absorb it, carry on, mycells and be able to use it for lipid bilayer, hair, skin, nail, energy all that stuff. Prostaglandins.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. And though bile is produced by your liver but it’s stored in your gallbladder so people that have had their gallbladders removed which is a very common surgery, a lot of surgeons are very happy to remove gallbladders, I think in many cases, they may have been saved with fixing these other upstream issues but, well, once it’s gone, it’s gone. So, people listening that have no gallbladder, you have to take that into consideration. There was a study here in 2018, it was in the annals of gastroenterology, it found that poor bile flow can contribute to the development of inflammatory bowel disease. So, you’re really setting yourself up and find all the time with people clinically when they come in, they’ve had gallbladder removal, we see a lot of issues, we see massive bacterial overgrowth problems in these people and I think that’s partly due to not having enough bile being stored anymore like you and I have talked about it before, I think you said it was a 10x concentration in the gallbladder, is that right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 10 to 15x. Yeah.
Evan Brand: So, you’re missing out on that when you have just liver production, you don’t have that storage facility. I mean you have some but just nowhere near what you would have had if you had your gallbladder. So, please. Try to save your gallbladder. You got to fix these upstream infections because that’s gonna be and get off proton pump inhibitors with the help of your doctor if you can because we know that, that suppression of stomach acid is gonna lead to the overgrowth which then fuels these downstream issues to not happen the domino effect, it literally gets stopped or prevented by the PPIs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And so, we need good, think of bile, it’s an emulsifier, it breaks down fat, it’s also an antimicrobial and so we create antimicrobial environments by having good, nice, low pH by having good enzyme and acid levels that also helps and then also by having good bile output and plus the longer that food sits there and rots and putrefies because we are not breaking it down into its constituent parts, right? Then it’s gonna create future petrification, fermentation, and rancidification. Essentially proteins and fats and carbs are rotting, right? Then you can get gas and bloating and that just creates this incredible breeding ground for bugs to grow. It’s like you can have this beautiful home that you take care of but if you leave the garbage in there like, a week too long it’s gonna get like, stinky and then you’re gonna get a whole bunch of bugs attracted to it, right? Same kind of thing in our microbiome so it’s really important that we stay on top of, you know, those good health practices.
Evan Brand: Let’s hit the symptoms and signs and symptoms because people know most of the gut ones but there are some that you and I find clinically that maybe people wouldn’t think are a gut symptom, right? It might not manifest outside of that so we can cover the stuff like unusual color texture, smell, messy poops, you have floating stool. You have maybe alternating diarrhea, constipation, bloating, gut pain. But, what about like, skin issues and what about anxiety and depression and hormonal imbalances and brain fog. I mean, you and I have seen, we lost count how many times we’ve seen cases where we simply just fix the gut and all the sudden, this depression is lifted. I had one client named Miranda, who she had been depressed for, she said quote 20 plus years, all we did is do a gut protocol. I gave her no antidepressant herbs. We simply just did a gut protocol and when we did a six-week follow-up, she said her depression was 90% better and when she said 90% better, she didn’t even sound too excited and I said, are you realizing what you just said to me. You’ve been depressed for over 20 years and you’re 90% less depressed in six weeks of doing a gut protocol like do you realize how profound that is and she goes oh yeah, I guess that is amazing. Thank you. And, I think people, they get so used to feeling a certain way that when the clouds lift. They’re almost not even ready for it but depression, anxiety, I would put at the top of the list for mental health issues connected to these gut inflammation problems, I will tell you. And, you and I discussed this I remember calling you one-night years ago is probably like coming up on be six, seven years ago was like 2014, 2015 and I was like man, I’m having like a panic episode or something and this was when I was living down in Austin and it was H. pylori. It was driving that because as soon as I cleared the H. pylori, all those weird episodes of panic completely disappeared and I’ve seen that more than just the n equals one, me, I’ve seen it many, many times. So, if you have anxiety problems, you go to the psychiatrist. They’re not going to suggest you have gut infections but that’s something you need to be thinking about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yep. 110% for sure. Anything else you want to add in that topic?
Evan Brand: If you’ve got mental health issues, look in the gut maybe even look in the gut before you look in the brain. Now, obviously, we’re gonna be doing organic acid testing and other things to look at neurotransmitters so we’re gonna check out dopamine, serotonin. We’re gonna look at what’s called quinolinic acid so we can look for actual brain inflammation or brain toxicity related to gut infections like sometimes Clostridia, we’ll see will drive up the quinolinic acid markers but we still have to fix the gut. So, if you have a family member, they’re anxious, they’re depressed, they’re fatigued. We’ve seen a massive link between chronic fatigue and gut infection. So, there’s another big one that people may not recognize, the gastro doc may not suggest your chronic fatigue is from a gut infection but it certainly can be skin issues as well. My skin was a wreck years ago. I had major acne even though my diet was clean. It was my gut.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. I also wanna highlight one other kind of variable here. I think it’s really important. I’m gonna pull this on screen here. I think this is really interesting. So, an interesting abstract here and it’s looking at the influences on the gut microbiome on inflammation and insulin resistance so this is interesting because we talk about insulin resistance, right? Consuming too much carbohydrate and refined sugar. All carbohydrates get broken down typically into glucose, fructose or a combination of the two, right? And so, the more sugar that gets released into our bloodstream that gets broken down whether from refined sugar, sucrose which is fructose in glucose, high fructose corn syrup is fructose in glucose 55, 45 concentration and then of course we have starches which get primarily broken down into glucose and then we have fruit which is more on the fructose side. These things all have an impact on our blood sugar and the more insulin resistant we become, we, it drives inflammation. It’s hard to utilize these fuel resources and these fuel sources to get deposited in our fat because our muscles don’t have the ability to store it. our liver loses the ability to store it. We don’t have the activity level. We don’t have the mitochondria stimulation to burn it so we store it as fat. Now, this article is interesting. It talks about obesity as the main condition that’s correlated with the appearance of insulin resistance. Think of this as when your cells get numb to insulin. Now, this is on screen here. People that are looking if you’ve got mental health issues on the audio version, we’ll put the link below for the whole video. Whole bacteria, their byproducts and metabolites undergo increased translocation through the gut epithelium. Translocate, let me give you the translation on that. Here’s your gut. Leaky gut happens, right? Where it talks about gut permeability and things start to translocate meaning move from the inside of the gut back into the bloodstream, right? So, it translocates through the gut epithelium into circulation due to the degradation of tight junctions. This is a leaky gut, right? Here. And it increases intestinal permeability that culminates in inflammation and insulin resistance. So, what this says is the inflammation caused by gut permeability caused by gut permeability caused by lack of enzymes, bile, food allergens, all the gut microbiome issues can actually drive inflammation and insulin resistance. Now, it makes it harder for your mitochondria to generate fuel because you’re not able to get that fuel into your cell and you start to become more of a sugar burner. It’s very difficult to burn fat when you have high levels of insulin, Very, very difficult. So, several strategies focusing on modulation of the gut microbiome using antibiotics, again, we would use antimicrobial herbs, probiotics and probiotic fibers are being experimentally used to um, in order to reduce intestinal permeability, increase the production of short chain fatty acids. Guess what, things like butyric acid, medium chain triglycerides. Those are all very helpful. And again, this helps promote insulin sensitivity and counteracts the inflammation. So, really, really important here. This study, influence of gut microbiome on subclinical inflammation here and this is the 2000, see what’s the study, 2013 study so we’ve known this stuff out for a long time here that the gut microbiome plays a major role on your blood sugar, blood sugar handling and if you’re a diabetic or someone with insulin problems, you need to be looking at the gut. Yeah. look at the diet, look at, you know, getting your diet and your macros in order, make sure your food quality is good and then look at really getting the microbiome dialed in to really help. That could be a missing piece of the puzzle for people that have really changed their diet but not quite gotten the metabolic benefits of losing weight yet.
Evan Brand: Wow. That’s a good point. You know, when I think back, when I had gut infections, my blood sugar was definitely not as good. I mean, 2 to 3 hours is as far as I could go without having to eat a meal. Now, I could fast all morning and not eat till 1 pm and I’m perfectly fine. I think there is an adrenal component too. I think I’m in a lot better place with that but I can tell you that certainly after mixing my gut, my blood sugar and blood stability is much better. So, I think you’re onto something with that paper and how people that even have gone paleo or animal based or keto. That still has issues with blood sugar regulation. That could be a sign of gut issues and I think even If diet dialed in in some cases what like you’re showing here, there could still be issues with the blood sugar. So, sometimes, it’s portrayed as like just fix your diet and everything else falls into place but you have to consider these other factors and also, I’ll throw in at the, you know, 11th hour here, mycotoxins, we know that mold toxins significantly affect the gut barrier and create a leaky gut. They damage the mitochondria, and we know that certain mycotoxins promote the overgrowth of bacteria like Clostridia and Candida. In fact, the lab will tell you that on paper, for example mycophenolic acid, it’s a very common mycotoxin that we see that comes from water damaged buildings. You breathe that in, that’ll then affect the gut and allow the overgrowth. So, if you’re just treating the antimicrobial herbs or fungal herbs and you’ve missed this giant mold exposure that can still affect the gut, still affect the brain and people won’t get fully better. So, that’s really the beauty of what we do is we try to work through all these puzzle pieces and help you because you could have this guy who says everything is gut and you go all the way down this gut rabbit hole and not get fully better or you go all the way down this insulin resistance rabbit hole and you still miss the smoking gun. You got the leaking dishwasher and your whole kitchen cabinetry. We had a woman in Texas last week, her dishwasher apparently leaking for years. Her entire kitchen has to be replaced now. She’s looking at 25k, just to replace her whole kitchen and she’s been to 10 doctors, 10 practitioners and nobody’s figured it out and I’m not trying to toot my own but I’ll just say I kept suspecting something because she said that she would always feel weird while she was washing dishes at her sink. She would get a little bit of a headache, feel a little bit sick to her stomach, said, ‘huh, is it possible that something’s leaking?’ and then boom brought in the remediator and they found it. There was a leaking dishwasher black mold everywhere.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Mold plays a major role in stressing out the immune system. It can create gut permeability within itself and then obviously drives the insulin problems. And also, people that eat this type of diet, I mean, it’s natural when you have microbiome issues to create a bunch of sugar because these foods are from an evolutionary standpoint, things that had a lot of sugar in it ended up having a lot of nutrients in it, right? Oh, a bunch of berries, some honey, right? And they were very rare in society. It was hard to find a lot of these things. Even fruit, you know, back then, tended to be a lot more sour and bitter and we’ve kind of hybridized and you know selectively grown fruits that tend to be sweeter and more, uh, and more plump and luscious now they taste. And so, we have sweeter fruits today and so it’s natural for people to want to crave all the crap that feeds the bad bugs because the bugs are producing chemicals to make you crave these foods. So, you have to be educated and understand that these foods, even though you’re craving them, you need to like not listen to those cravings sometimes and really shift your gut in it. If it shifts your macronutrients in a way to starve out some of these bugs, it can make a big difference.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. I mean, a lot of fruits hybridize now too as you mentioned to be sweeter, so like a strawberry. I’ve seen strawberries as big as my hand sometimes, like, ‘God’, you know wild strawberries, they’re tiny. I mean they’re like the size of a fingernail, if you’ve ever seen wild strawberries out in the yard, very tiny and definitely not anywhere as sweet as the other ones. So, when you hear people talk about fruit, like our modern fruit, like you said it’s not really, it’s more like candy with some, it’s like natural candy as opposed to the more ancient fruits so If I can find like some heirloom apples and that kind of stuff, I’m totally into it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And you know, my general recommendation with carbohydrates, just make sure you earn it, make sure you’re not in a place where you’re inactive and try to get some activity because sugar goes three directions: gets stored in the liver and muscle, okay, so, if you’re working out, you’re always draining that muscle every day, you have a storage reservoir for it a little bit in the liver; It goes to fat or it stays in the bloodstream and gets burned up by the mitochondria essentially. It gets burnt up mitochondria-wise by the muscles etc. So, it’s gonna go either stored, burnt, you know, it’ll stay in the bloodstream but burnt up by the muscles of mitochondria or it gets converted to fat. So, if you’re doing things that allow you to utilize the glucose in that bloodstream, not as big of a deal, but that’s what you really have to look at what activity level is and you have to work with your functional medicine doctor about dialing in those macros and some people they need to starve out certain macros especially the fermentable carbohydrates and a lot of the inflammatory foods especially grains, legumes, dairy. Those things are really, can be, drive a lot of inflammation and that can keep your sympathetic nervous system and your immune system on high alert which just drains a lot of energy from you. Food allergens can make you fat and they can drain energy from you. Yeah. Seeds too. You know, I cut out almond seeds, nut seeds. Yep, even some eggs too for sure.
Evan Brand: I cut out eggs for her while greens, I mean, some people are way overdoing it on the leafy greens. I can’t tell you the last time I ate a salad. I don’t really care. I don’t do leafy greens. I used to but, you know, I see way too many people doing these like kale smoothies. I had a lady doing like a pound of kale a day. Oxalates were off the chart. We know those affect the gut barrier too so there are downsides to plants.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, it’s all about, you know, how you tolerate it, can you eat and feel good afterwards, how does your stool look? Do you see a bunch of undigested particulates? If so, you may want to work on just chewing your food up more. Taking some enzymes. See if that helps or sauteed it a little bit and see if that moves a needle. Again, there’s almost always a way, we can adjust things so it works but everyone’s a little different.
Evan Brand: If you need further help, you can reach out to Dr. Justin at his website, justinhealth.com. Now, we do worldwide consultations, phone, facetime, skype, whatever it can connect to, we do it. Lab tests are sent around the world. It’s awesome we have distributors to work with. We can get these things to your door. We sign off on it and get you rolling so we can investigate and look deeper. So, justinhealth and then for me Evan Brand, it’s evanbrand.com. You can reach out and we’re both happy to help you. We love what we do. We’re very blessed for the opportunity to be in the trenches. We’re always improving our own health. We work on our families, our children. We work on everybody around us. We’re always trying to improve them and to be able to do it clinically too is just great. We learn so much from you all and we like to be the shining light in a world of darkness where people have been to countless practitioners and the stuff that to you and I is just common everyday conversation, functional medicine stuff. This stuff to some people is like wow why has nobody ever mentioned that to me before. And for us, it’s like, oh yeah uh-uh, we do it with everyone. So, we look forward to helping you uncover your root causes if you have gut inflammation, what’s going on. There’s something under it so don’t give up, keep pushing forward and please reach out if you need help. We’d love to help you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evanbrand.com, work at Evan. Dr. J, justinhealth.com, works with me. We are here with you guys. And, put your comments down below. Let us know the different things that you guys are applying, what’s working, what’s not and if you get overwhelmed listening to this. Try to take at least one action item out of it. I would say action items from a supplement standpoint. We’ll put our recommended supplements down below. We have different hydrochloric acid and enzyme support products that we’ll put down below for links. That’s always low hanging fruit. Again, diet wise, you know, a good autoimmune, lower fodmap diet can really be a good starting point and I would say for liver gallbladder, you know, we have our different formulas. I have one called liver supreme and again some of the hallmark nutrients in these products are gonna be bile, phosphatidylcholine, taurine, some products will have things like Tudca, which can be very helpful for biliary flow. Beetroot can be really helpful. if I didn’t mention Ox Biles. These are all maybe some milk thistle, very supportive for liver, gallbladder function, liver-gallbladder flow. So, very beneficial, we’ll put the links down below so if you guys enjoy the information and you wanna take action feel free to take a look at some of those links and support the show by grabbing some of those products and Evan will have his links down below as well. Anything else, Evan, you wanna add?
Evan Brand: I think, I said, we give people the links. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast if you’re listening on apple that’s probably where most people find us if you’re looking up. Justin’s show, make sure you subscribe there or my show, Evan Brand. We don’t care how you’re listening, you know, obviously we cross pollinate. We put these on each other so make sure you’re subscribed to both of them so you don’t miss it and we appreciate it. give us a review too. I think we should probably do a giveaway. I know some people giveaways so we can give away a book or you know free supplement or something but, in the meantime, give us a five star review on apple, we would love it. That’s how we stay up in the rankings so that we can actually share true functional medicine education to the masses because right now there’s still a lot of people that are in the top charts just theory. They’re not clinicians. They’re not in the trenches every day, all day, I mean we look at an exhaustive amount of lab testing that helps us to really dial the stuff we’re saying in. We then sprinkle in some studies and we stay up on the research but you could keep your head in the research all day and totally miss what actually works and it’s all about what actually gets people the results. So, keep that in mind and make sure you subscribe. Give us a review on Apple, we’ll love you forever. Thank you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110% All the links will be below for you guys. Alright, thanks a lot. Evan, great chat with you man. Have a good one. Bye everyone.
Evan Brand: You too, take it easy. Bye-bye.
The Top 5 Ways Your Water Could Be Hurting You & How to Fix It | Podcast #350
We need to stay hydrated but is the tap water in your home safe? When we drink water at your house, it must meet strict safety standards as well.
Water can be contaminated in several ways, according to Dr. J and Israel. It can contain bacteria and parasites that get in the water from human or animal fecal matter. It can contain chemicals from industrial waste, spraying crops, and many more. That’s why it is essential to invest in water filters if you can or make sure that your water source is safe to avoid health problems in the long run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:19 – Fluoride
6:06 – Chlorine
10:45 – How does Clearly Filtered work?
18:47 – Herbicides/Pesticides
19:56 – Pharmaceutical Drugs
26:03 – Contaminants Detected
30:53 – Benefits and advantages of Clearly Filtered
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s doctor Justin Marchegiani here. I have Israel Passwater on the show today. We are gonna be talking about water, water filtration, some of the top five toxins that may be in your water and hurting your health. So, really excited to have Israel on today’s podcast. Israel, how we doing today man?
Israel Passwater: Doing good man. Thanks for having me, Justin. It’s a great day, great to be here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, really excited to have you on. Um, one of the reasons why I have Israel on, he’s an expert in water and water filtration and the different technology but Israel also has a product to it’s basically, the better Brita filter right. We all know the Brita filters, right. The problem with them, they make the water taste a little bit better but they don’t filter out a lot of the other toxins. In Israel, it’s a product that actually filters out more of the toxins and It’s a kind of a low-cost product to kind of get into the water filtration space and I’m really excited. I talk about whole house water filtration, a lot of counter top, um, reverse osmosis systems. Those are great, they also involve a little bit of install, you may not be at a property that allows you to do it. So, this technology allows you to do it passively. It’s like a Brita filter for your fridge but gets of more of the toxins and more of the crap out of the water. We’re gonna go into the technology and some of the things that we need to be avoiding in our water to have healthier metabolism. So first off like, what is the number one thing in water today that needs to be filter out that could be hurting our health?
Israel Passwater: That’s a great question. It depends on who you ask, um, from our perspective fluoride would probably be the number one, because it’s in about 75% of the water supply, uh, internationally and nationally. So, that’s one that we believe to be in science has shown that there are, uh, issues or questions at least on the long term effects of that, uh, so typically when people are looking for, uh, like a water filter that will come about us, they say I’m looking for best water pitcher that filters fluoride or heavy metals or whatever it is you’re, you, you look on the news and you say, oh there was a contamination outbreak and there’s lead in the pipes and it’s in the water supply that’s where you know good parents like us will go and say, okay well, I need to find a solution to that. And that’s usually where people will find us without, oh wow clearly filtered. I think I’ve heard about them. If they haven’t heard of us, oh that’s pretty cool. So that’s usually the start of the journey is realizing that there is, uh, there’s toxins in the water and it’s not ah, oh maybe, oh gosh, I wonder if it’s really a real thing. It’s proven scientific. Um, so that’s usually where people kind of stumble upon us and not to start off with a scare tactic but again, that’s kind of what we do. We provide a layer of safety to bring help, people live healthier lives, you know, so we’re just.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, awesome, yeah. So, we have fluoride. Right now, there’s a lot of misconceptions on fluoride. A lot of people think of fluoride, they think of like, um, calcium fluoride, there’s some natural fluoride in the environment. You know, what we’re talking about is more of the Hydrofluorosilicic acid, more of the synthetic fluorides that, um, you know, a lot of dentists that are well-intentioned topically, may put on someone’s teeth to help make the enamel stronger, the problem is when you’re swallowing it, it’s a little bit different. It’s like seeing the benefits of sunscreen, so you don’t get burned and saying well let’s put in in the water and drink it right, so there maybe, you know, a lot of the data out there, maybe some of the benefits of fluoride, maybe more topical, but we’re talking about ingesting it orally. So probably not the best right? It’s good if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna be on a medication which fluoride is that you actually dose it. You don’t really control the dose when you put it in the water supply. So, I think that’s a good point and uh, keeping that out is beneficial and there’s a lot of studies if you go on pubmed and fluoride in the water supply and fluoride correlations affecting thyroid function and going down and even IQ going down. So, a lot of things there to kind of highlight from an implication standpoint.
Israel Passwater: I hate going to the dentist. But last time you go to the dentist, they do the fluoride treatment, what they tell you to do, they don’t tell you to swallow it right, they say no, rinse your mouth out, right? It’s like, it’s like they go, okay well, that makes sense but then people realize that you had fluoride and stuff like chloride being in the water. It may serve a purpose but maybe not the purpose they intended it to do so. I think maybe good intentions or at the time in 1920s or 30s when they started fluorinating the water. It was because not everyone had great dental care and access to dental, dental health, you know, so again, the rationale for doing was much different, well, and then it also depends on who you ask but again that was one of the main historical pinpoints why they started doing that but as we know, doctors also used to recommend smoking for lung capacities too in the 1920s and 30s.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And even sugar consumption as well, and anyone that has a kid that has like, you know, typical Colgate toothpaste, go look on the back of it, right it says you know, pinky size, pinky size amount and then it says, if you swallow, call poison control. So you know, there’s some understanding that this stuff is harmful and it’s always better to use a healthier toothpaste as well and get the fluoride out of your water, I think that’s a good first step. Also, I think half of all cavities, I think in teenagers and caused by dental fluorosis, meaning too much fluoride actually, causing the enamel almost crack.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. It’s an over-fluoridation that the concentration. So, yeah, there’s again, it depends on who you ask, but most people that have spent anytime and obviously you have looking and researching and I would encourage everyone and again, I’m a big believer because again, I come an educator’s background, um, again, I want everyone to do their own research, always like trust but verify, um, but the internet is a powerful place and there’s a lot of things, and Justin and I were talking right before we went live and I think the cool part about, you know, living in the society that we have and sometimes scary part is the access to technology that you have at your fingertips on your iphone, uh, stuff you can research, you know, if you have trouble sleeping at night. It’s like there’s a lot of information out there, so again, I like to encourage people, whatever you know, if it’s you know, our brand or another brand, whatever, just do the research, find out what your, what’s on your water supply and you know, be aware you know and obviously drive cautiously in that sense, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. People are listening, if they’re really interested, I put a link down below for the clearly filtered water filter, justinhealth.com/clearly-filtered. It’ll be right below, so if you guys want to take a look at it, we’re going to just go into what those big toxins are and the technology in a few minutes. So, we hit fluoride, why don’t we go to chloride next, right, I mean chlorine has well-intentioned right? It has reasons there to kill bacteria and kill things like that, but the problem is they leave it in right and it kind of has a smell that everyone knows what that chlorine smell looks like or smells like, because of being in pools and stuff. Uh, let’s go over chlorine.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. I mean it just depends, like again, the rationale for keeping chlorine in the water was that for transportation, you know, the idea was that they’re transporting in pipes long over long distances, you know that was the intent initially. But again, they’ve seen that chlorine vapor can cause long term damage to vital organs and they’ve there’s all sorts, there’s no reason they should be, uh, in the water supply. So, from our perspective, again, that’s another villain that people obviously don’t think about you know. They don’t think about it, oh it’s chlorinated. We’ll, that chlorine smell is, you know, what do you do when you get out of the pool, you rinse off right? It’s like you go to your face. Hopefully it’s salt water, you could. If you’re fortunate enough to have a saltwater pool but you know, what you go, you’re going to rinse off, you don’t want your hair to turn all nasty and green if you have blond hair. So again, there’s all different reasons that you say, okay well yeah, that’s chlorinated but should I be consuming that. You don’t drink pool water, but again there’s lesser concentrations obviously in the tap water but it does exist. So again, another reason people find us say, okay well, I want to take the chlorine out of my water, oh okay cool, so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And a lot of times with that motivation, it’s more of just the taste and the smell, they just want the water to taste and smell a lot better right. So, there’s more of an anesthetic to that right?
Israel Passwater: Great point. So, a lot of it, like, if you go on our website, okay, this is I don’t want to make this salesly at all but I think if you look up different types of, uh, the contaminants we remove, a lot of the ones that are cancer caused into parts per billion not parts per million, so parts per billion. Like you take a medicine dropper, drop it in an Olympic sized swimming pool, since we’re talking about swimming pools but stay with the analogy that you take a mess and drop or drop, one drop some of these things are poisonous and parts per billion and that’s considered toxic and you think there’s a lot and the concentration is a lot higher than a lot of these. So, again, people don’t realize this and once they start to realize, they go, oh my gosh that’s really my water and there’s lots of different ways you can check your local water supply and see what’s in there and it’s truly eye-opening and if not scary.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. And being a functional medicine doctor, I’m very concerned about gut health and I know chlorine has a lot of negative impacts on the microbiota in the gut too.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Oh, I forgot one of the things I was gonna say, a lot of the things you were talking about like odor so like chlorine. Like chlorine taste and odor is pretty standard like when you look at the industry for like water filtration kind of like benchmark. It doesn’t really much, but it’s like oh it tastes good, okay great, it must not be toxic. The problem is, most of the things that are cancer causing and you know, all sorts of detrimental things, you know like are, you can’t smell it, they’re odorless, they’re tasteless and you can’t see them because they’re microscopic. So that’s kind of going around with the sun, this illusion of safety, um, but again a lot of times you can’t see something that’s going to potentially be very harmful for you and your family. And that’s, I mean it’s scary but it’s true though so when people say, oh it tastes fine okay well or like, you know, I think my water taste fine because I live next to an aquifer or something like it. Again, the assumption is it’s safe but reality is that you know, most of the population has again with fluoride that 75 plus percent of the water supply is fluorinated, so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then can’t chlorine convert to chloramine as well? Can you talk about that one?
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Uh, I’m trying to remember the process but yeah, they, It can, It can interact and one, the interaction sometimes can have detrimental effects as well. I’m blanking on the term, if you can prompt me that’s fine, but the point is these things shouldn’t be in the water supply anyway so, um, so yeah but yeah, so typically that’s how people find out about us or start thinking about us and that’s where we come in is like, a really good option, you know, so it’s like yeah you know, like I’m looking at your success pyramid, you know, like a lot lies underneath the surface and the same thing with water filtration.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It makes sense because they’re putting a lot of these compounds there because they’re trying to prevent, you know, the bacteria getting in the water along the way but in the end you’re gonna drink it and so it makes sense that there is some kind of end stage filtration that we put that water through before it goes in our mouth and we know if chlorine is affecting bacteria in the water well what’s what about all the eight pounds of bacteria in our gut.
Israel Passwater: Yeah, it’s correct.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, it makes sense, we know 80% of our immune system is there. So, it’s gonna have negative impact with our microbiome, our immune function, so it’s good that we have ways to get it out.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Especially if you’re immunocompromised too, that’s a real significant topic, you know, for people that are like yeah or just sensitive to certain things. You know,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%
Israel Passwater: There you go. That’s our website, um, so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I just pulled up on screen first thing, we hit the, um, the first thing we talked about was fluoride, we talked about fluoride and the Hydrofluorosilicic acid right? Before Hydrofluorosilicic acid, we talked about, you know obviously the percent removal. This is great and this is all confirmed via lab testing is that correct?
Israel Passwater: Correct. Yeah. That was the thing I was gonna touch on too. Whatever you choose, okay, so like, when I’m talking to people that may or may not know about us or have you know, a medium interest in water, you know filtration, um, they say, well okay well, you know, how do you compare to brands x, y, and z and go okay well, we do actually if you go on our website, we actually have a few comparisons like how we compare to like, you know like Berkey, Aquatru or some these other brands that you know are might be larger companies might have you know bigger marketing budgets but they again, when it comes down to it, it’s all what is testing is proven to do and then how was it tested, where was it tested and that what are the standards. So again, the cool part about our, uh, filters is they’re tested at EPA and NSF, uh, certified laboratory. Uh, we test stuff all the time, we actually just recently updated our pitcher testing so like for now we’re, uh, up to 273 known contaminants. Oh yeah, that’s a cool video too if you have ever wanted to check it out like the red dye test. But it just kind of gives a powerful visual of you know what our filters are doing and again imagine the red dye being toxin xyz.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Toxins, yeah exactly.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. The cool part again, again our filters are tested. They work and again we feel we have the best option in the space or and again we’re not the only option but we’re probably the best, uh, as far as when you’re looking at water pitchers especially or our point of filter systems like our under the sink or inline filter for your refrigerator, I mean, we really in, again, we have bottles so we kind of fit in the niche of like between like, hey I don’t want to put in a whole house system because there are some good house systems like as you and I were kind of chatting about yeah, but I want something portable, I want something I can take with us, something I’m renting a house and I want to be able to have clean and safe water for my family, we fit in really well, there so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Very cool. So, let’s continue to hit, so we talked about fluoride, we talked about chlorine which I think is really important for all the reasons, we mentioned chlorine right here 99.5 and also the chloramine which is a metabolite too so we’re knocking a lot of these down. Let’s go into the plastics. I think this is really important because of the microplastics so you have different plastic compounds BPA, various estrogen chemicals. You could probably put, um, pesticides, perforated chemicals in there, different chemical pesticides runoff.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. A lot of time, they think, well how do microplastics or like us pesticides end up in the water supply because when you think about it, you know, I see you know, neighbors of ours out there were like you know roundup and which is equally horrible but they’re spraying killing weeds and stuff I got to go but what people don’t understand over long periods of time that ends up and seeps into the water supply and then again local municipal water department doesn’t necessarily have the tools in order to filter that out, you know, so again, the assumption of hey it’s safe or with microplastics a lot of industrial runoff, you know, we build and create things and that ends up also in the water supply too so there’s a lot of different ways because of runoff and seeping and leaching over long periods of time that can come downstream to us and things that we’re just becoming more, uh, clear about it, more, uh intentional about, um, I think that what again why people go. Oh my gosh. There are actual pharmaceutical drugs or another one. How are pharmaceutical drugs..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly
Israel Passwater: Well and yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. With a lot of these chemicals too, a lot of times they’re still like pecs, piping that’s plastic, there’s still some plastic piping. So, a lot of these things may be running through that as well
Israel Passwater: Which are not BPA-free as we know so and yeah and again BPA is limping like all sorts of nasty stuff too. So again, It’s really just kind of like a systematic like, aha, moment like, oh there’s a problem with my water supply potentially oh okey tell me more about that and that’s typically where people like I said like gravitate to and again gravitate it doesn’t have to be us but again we are certified to remove more contaminants than most of your, your top brands, you know, so uh, again, we feel like we have the best big mousetrap to use the term you never talked about, um, and uh again sometimes, you know people ask me like about a compound, we haven’t tested for. I go, you know what probably but I can’t say it until we’ve proven it but again all of our lab test is available on the website, you can download it and take a look at it. So, the biggest thing, I would like to say too is like for anyone in that space and interested in that, do your research but ask, you know, if the testing data isn’t available on the company’s website or on the packaging, ask for it. If say, hey I want a copy of your testing data and a lot of they can’t prove that or it’s tested for five gallons or in-house. I’ve heard something on the radio today, you know, it was like yeah 4 out of 5 people said that they felt that better, I think it was like a like a protein powder or something like. I gotta go, I go, that’s a perfect example like oh trust me it works it’s fine, well we tested it in-house for people that are on the payroll, you know, so stuff like that, that’s what you have to pay attention to, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep. That makes a lot of sense. Let me keep by hitting other things. So, we also just have general bacteria and viruses right, I know, that’s really important especially with what’s happening today in the world right, um, so viruses getting that out of the water whether it’s a Rotavirus etc. or just general bacteria, E. coli. Different various cysts, I know, parasitic cysts, Klebsiella, Giardia. These are all different microbes that could be in the water as well. Let me just show that here as well, that’s important. Tell me a little bit more about that and so you’re saying conventional water filtration, they’re not gonna be getting rid of some of these bacteria, cysts, viruses?
Israel Passwater: They won’t, because again they’re servicing like volume. So, one of the things you’ll notice too like when you first makes …, is that they’re again, it’s a catch-all. They’re doing, I would not say they’re doing there best, they’re trying to service a very large population because like at least here in California, is like, when they were building the infrastructure like yesterday, I assigned a new place ice hockey or driving on the freeway through L.A. and he’s going why are the roads so bumpy they go we’ll again because they’re old and they weren’t you know why are we hitting traffic well, they weren’t designed to service this many people. Same thing with the water supply. Again, when California’s infrastructure was built, you know, 100 years ago, it wasn’t planned. They weren’t planning on having this many people live or what again, great place to live, um, whether wise but gain from an infrastructure standpoint for water filtration like servicing a lot of customers and they can’t again. That’s why good filtration takes time, um, so like you know people know it’s like oh wow, how long does it take to develop your water pitcher, usually about 10-15 minutes. I go, oh wow, that’s kind of slow, no it’s actually good because it’s doing its job so, um, it really just depends on how you look at it but again trying to service a bigger catch, uh, a bigger net but against letting some of those particles and contaminants through because again, they can’t, they’re not set up to do that and that’s okay but knowing that you say okay well I gotta go take the next layer, the next step in order to protect my family and myself, you know, so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense because it takes a while for water to fit through and if you’re trying to get millions of gallons out, it’s gonna be pretty costly and it makes sense to filter it source you know. I mean where it’s coming into the home so it’s most like that this should be just something that everyone should have anyway. So, they’re trying to make the water decently clean, so you don’t get really sick, taking it in but it’s still not gonna have the health properties that we need overall.
Israel Passwater: Right. And that kind of goes with the assumption of like, okay so like I have you know even if you have like a whole house system, some of them are rated different rates and some of them aren’t rated at all so it really like depends on it so again that’s the first step but the second step typically is like people like oh well I have a fridge, a refrigerator, LG refrigerator that’s got a filter and it has a light that goes on when I need to replace like filter and they say oh cool great and they asked the same question, oh well, what is the filter actually doing, they kind of have the deer in the headlights look like, I don’t know, I have no idea well it’s again the assumption of safety the illusion of safety is like oh it’s a filter okay it’s like a seatbelt was it crash tested, I don’t know, it’s the seat belt though, you know, so but again we wouldn’t again I’m kidding, it might be a poor analogy but like that’s the kind of assumptions that you walk around with like oh okay, it’s gonna filter okay cool. Well, what does it do, I have no idea but part is that we do have an idea and we can prove it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And we kind of already highlighted the herbicide that is a big deal because of pesticide runoff. It’s coming in from different farms, it’s going into our water supply and again this is like a wide category right, I mean, there’s all kinds of organopesticides and these affect our nervous systems. They are hormone disruptors, so they can really throw off hormones. This is a big one right. Any comments on the herbicides at all?
Israel Passwater: Yeah. I mean especially typically when someone’s asking about the herbicides and pesticides, a lot we have a lot of mothers are asking about that they’re expecting getting out..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 99.99% out so this is great. So, this is really significantly reducing our reduction and just not cut you off but these things are really powerful at very low doses so you don’t need a lot of it to affect your body, right?
Israel Passwater: Correct. Yeah. They get effective dose on or the, the lethal dose but yeah it doesn’t take a whole lot in order to do a whole lot of damage, um, and that’s again a scary thought, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% So we talked about pesticides that’s important because we’re getting exposure there, I would say the next thing, um, we talked about pesticides and herbicides. They’re kind of the same camp, right? In the same camp there, I would say the next thing after that I think is really important, um will be medications. Can we talk a little bit more about the medications and like statins, antidepressants so if even if we just like pee right these metabolites are going through our kidneys and they get into the water, right?
Israel Passwater: Well, because you think, like how on earth could like this kind of stuff be in the tap water and then initially when we started talking about this, I go really there you go, that’s, that’s a thing well yeah obviously our body filters it through our own filter system and it excretes all the toxins that’s what your body designed to do but that also includes trace amounts of insert whatever, uh, pharmaceutical drug you’re taking, you know, so that stuff shows up in traceable amounts in the water supply and people are kind of shocked when they find out, you know, like roundup. Okay I see like, my neighbors sprinting around up on his on his yard or something about ant killer or whatever the toxic thing yeah, I can see that it rains it runs down the drain it goes into the water suppl, makes sense but pharmaceutical drugs, you think, how on earth that well okay, when we think of it from us being the carrier or at least the disseminator of that or if you’ve ever dumped pills down the drain or down the toilet that can also end up with water supply too. So again, there’s a variety of ways that happens, um, but it’s something that we need to pay attention to, uh and something that’s very easily overlooked.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean just looking here on, on the list that you guys are actually testing right deep. That’s insecticides or you know, uhm spray for mosquitoes, right?
Israel Passwater: You think, okay like that makes sense. You know but some of this other stuff is like, like way hardcore you know. So it’s like..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This phenol A, obviously a plastic compound, a lot of the hormones that women maybe on which we don’t want men being on right?
Israel Passwater: Correct.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s like GABA medication, right? And then you have, um, just trying, I don’t recall some of these names, Naproxen, that’s some pain medication.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Again, I’m not a medical doctor, my degree in exercise physiology so like but again from a from health perspective, you think of all the things you do, during the week, you know, you know, like I’m a runner you know, it’s like, like training I’m running 60 miles a week, I’m stretching, I’m cross training, I’m taking some supplements, I’m trying to eat healthy and you know not drink too much or whatever it is you’re trying to do but again an easily overlooked one is like what, how, not just how much water you are drinking what kind of water are you drinking so that’s where really people go, oh, yeah you’re right, you know pesticides as we see, you know, its like, you know, those kind of things. They’re there, there proven and uh, I don’t know if you’ve shared with your audience
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For this handout people here, this is uh, anyone listening we have some stuff on the screen shared here. This is the actual lab assessing assessment testing on 100 gallons. This is cool. So, we’re seeing this is also getting removed like we know it and so on the website, you, kind of have it here right, you, kind of have it oh, you had it listed here, what was being removed but then we actually have the lab assessment here so that’s cool.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Yeah yeah. And again, yeah, we’re going to be adding some features on the website so if you look over the next week or two or three. It’s gonna have some other tools that we’re adding not to tease it but again we, the way it kind of the way I see is like, you know, from not just like we’re not selling water filters will help them educate people too that’s obviously why you and I are connecting on the podcast today but I think it’s important to if you take away nothing else from this podcast other than, hey I maybe need to rethink what other kind of water filter or if you’re not doing it, go do some research and find out some of the ones that’s best for you because again like what I said we’re not the only company that does this but we’re the ones that do it, obviously a greater extent, um, and again we’re decently in our opinion very affordable, easy to work with, um, independently tested and certified. So, I can, I, I see it’s kind of a no-brainer but it really starts with in an individual saying, you know what let me think about that, let me see what, what is my fridge filter is doing or is it doing
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yep. That makes sense. That’s good. I like that. So, we hit the fluoride right and get a big one, we hit a lot of the viruses and bacteria stuff and then we hit a lot of the plastic compounds we can put, like phthalates in that category, we have to put microplastics in that category.
Israel Passwater: I’m trying to think of any, like the top offenders too, like for people but again you know, fluorides usually where people like or in heavy metals or where people start you know like..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pharmaceutical drugs, right?
Israel Passwater: Pharmaceutical drugs, radiological elements, obviously, that’s one that we do too but I mean it really just depends on like everyone has a different you know top of their pyramid, they also have a different fear points here so they like whatever is most fearful of them or what’s most recent as far as exposure or you know, you know whatever that is again, we can service of those needs you know so and occasionally someone will say, well what about this and go well if we’re not certified to remove it we won’t claim it because we don’t know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes sense.
Israel Passwater: And it’s also too very costly and very timely to do this, so it’s not like we can’t just run down the street and have it done, it’s like no we have to have it send out and it cost thousands of dollars and so we’re very intentional about the ones we test for, um.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yep. That makes sense. And so just kind of the big five, right, we have pesticides-herbicides, we have fluoride, we have chlorine, we have pharmaceutical drugs, right and we have a lot of the you know, heavy metal here as well too, mercury, lead. These are important right, a lot of pipes used to be lead, I mean there’s a reason why, um, plumbers are called plumbers, I think, what is it the periodic table for, uh, lead, I think it’s plumbum is, is lead, right? How, that’s I think Latin for Lead is like plumbum the, in the periodic table of elements Pb which stands for plumbum and that’s what plumbers got their name from because plumbers dealt with pipes that were literally lead so lead pipes and plumbers were kind of synonymous, so it makes sense there may be still old piping out there in certain areas so you want to make sure you’re pulling the lead out, pulling any mercury out, pulling any, uh, compounds out that could be problematic. So heavy metals, pesticides, plastic compounds, uh, then we would have a lot of our pesticides and then chlorine fluoride. So those would be our top five here today. Anything else you want to talk about regarding other problematic compounds we didn’t dive in deep enough on?
Israel Passwater: No, I, I think I would just encourage everyone there’s a fun open-source tool they call the environmental working group that’s the EWG. They actually have a database where you can pull up your zip code. So, you can punch in like mine’s 19694 so you know where I live now, but it’ll pop up but hey here’s the, the compounds that we found in your lab testing. Yeah, here we go, perfect.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, here’s mine. This Austin, right here. This is Travis country, so you can look here, we see,
Israel Passwater: Like, well, let’s see, like oh, there you go, yeah and again and also too I wanted to mention that a lot of these substances are regulated by the EPA, so they say well, you know, the EPA is there to protect us and they are but again a lot of these things aren’t regulated or if it’s regulated it’s not to a healthy extent because you shouldn’t be like chlorine, you shouldn’t be ingesting chlorine but it is regulated so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, and then if we go here. Let me go pull this back up, right and we look at some of the testing, so we so in my area, I think the big one we saw was a lot of bromines, so there’s bromo, your bromochloroacetic acid, that would filter that out and we, I think we saw a bunch, um, you look at what else we saw there, the chloroform, so that that’d be that’d be your chlorine, right?
Israel Passwater: Right. Correct.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Over there.
Israel Passwater: And that’s the kind of the fun part is because you can thumb through and our goal is to be as transparent as we can, you know, so like I said, if there’s something we haven’t tested for, we just said, you know what we haven’t done that, we’ll put on a list, you know, and were constantly building a list and we’re constantly retesting you know, like I said we retested our pitcher, uh, this year and we’ll be doing the same thing with our inline filters but again, everything were certified to do, is like what we have proof of you know and it’s like yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Here’s your chloramine and here’s your, uh, your chloride. So, it’s then you can kind of go in there and say, okay cool like at least have some coverage, um, for some of these issues, so that’s good and high levels of chromium too.
Israel Passwater: And yeah, I just want to mention, so this information is getting pulled from the universal database, so EWG just proved like, compiles all the data and then kind of google and then it kind of presents it in a very, uh, I think eye-opening way, um, so one of the cool parts is that you say well if you don’t believe me that your water supply is there’s probably something to be worried about, go here and then they’re a non-profit, we have no, we don’t paid by them or anything like that. So again, I like to show that is kind of like for someone who maybe new on that journey, um, towards, if either finding us or finding something else, say you should do something because you should consider this and that’s usually like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. That’s great. I want to just compare the technology to like you know your general breeder. I’m on your site here right. Where’s the best way to go see that, I know that you have like a comparison on here. Is it a featured pitcher? Is that right side?
Israel Passwater: Uh, yeah. The comparison I’m trying to think about the comparison, it already should, I should know this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I went, I went through here earlier and I saw it and I thought it was really good. So, I’m gonna, I’m gonna put her around here as we, as we’re chatting to see if I can pull it up here.
Israel Passwater: And I’m trying to think, I, we have like a blog session, a session section, excuse me, that like really showcases, like, some interesting articles like us versus Brita versus Aquatru, us or Insert brands. Again, like I said we’re not the only people that do water filters but again kind of goes through like, how we’re..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Here it is. Right here. I got it right here. So, there’s, you know, you clearly filtered standard carbon, zero water, so let’s just kind of go through the big thing here. So the big one is obviously fluoride, microplastics, lead, a lot of the, um, the I think these are volatile organic compounds, right here. So, we’re really filtering a lot out so most are going to do pretty good. In regards to what’s probably more lead and then what else. Let’s, let’s use the easiest one, one of the easier ones to test for too and you know if you have any carbon block filter of any type, it should remove some percentage of that. So again, we never want to just like, to discourage other brands, that’s never my thing, it’s like hey whatever you are, you’re using even a Brita filter for example because they’re the most know brand because they’re been around the longest and they’ve had the most like a said the most marketing budget for longest time but again, it’s going better than drinking tap water, so it’s definitely better amount of good so that, which is a good thing you know so it’s like you know, hey well, you start here and then you move here and move up, you know, but uh, I think too, one of the things that keep in mind too is like, uh, when you’re looking at comparing like, brand A to brand B to brand C. You got ask yourself, you know, three main questions: how is it tested, is it tested, those are two parts and then to what degree, who’s testing it and then also to the other part is how long does it last, you know how easy is it to work with, you know, is it made domestically or is it made overseas that’s the one thing to consider, um. Again, all very important questions to consider when you’re looking at but I think the biggest thing is transparency because there’s a lot of non-transparent, uh, practices and a lot of unregulated. So, we try to be as up like I said as upfront as we can about with people and I think they appreciate that, you know, I do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s good. That’s good. Let’s talk about kind of what like the technology. So, if someone’s researching a brand, someone’s saying I want really investigate a water filter and what makes a water filter great and they want to look at different brands what should they be looking at. So, let’s kind of compare and contrast using the technology you have, how would you know, you’re dealing with good tech? Let’s just kind of contrast what you have and how people should be educated on this.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Yeah. Great question.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, I’ll put the screen back up here so you can, you can kind of use that as a guide to walk through it.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. That’s fine. So again, our technology, it’s, it’s our own technology. It’s affinity technology, we’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars in multiple years coming up with the filter, uh, yeah, so we actually ever realized what was made up. Well, we don’t disclose the ingredients list but again we’re not using activated charcoal or bone char or anything that’s going to be problematic so it’s all, it’s all up and up and obviously if we’re tested so we need to update that graph, by the way sorry, um, you’re constantly finding things but yeah again the technology basically the way this simple elevator answer is your water supply or your water, uh, your water supply is polluted, we have a technology to remove it. Takes out all the bad stuff, the toxins, the chemical, the PFAS, the lead, uh, the VOCs, and retains the nutrients in the water so that. that’s the secret. So, a lot of times even when you look at like an RO system, RO systems aren’t inherently bad they pull everything out of the water and then a lot of that they added back in the salts and stuff like that. But the cool thing is like, with our filters is that we have the ability to remove all the toxins, so our filters are smart they’d be able to discriminate between filter or sorry between water, uh, nutrients and then toxin. So, that’s really where people go wow, that’s pretty cool and it is. It’s awesome. Like, I said, we put a lot time and energy into that, our design team is constantly working on ways to innovate, uh, we have some new things coming out that I can’t quite share yet but, um, things that I think will be really well received and making a little bit easier for our customers. But the big thing is, we know how to remove the bad stuff keep the good stuff in and the other stuff too, oh yeah, like I was saying, like with the RO systems, uh, they’re about 75% less water efficient, so for every clean gallon of water, it makes, it wastes three and a half gallons. So, for us, we don’t do that. So, we’re also eco-friendly, um, again all of our stuff like you see, our testing data is fantastic. Uh, it’s independently third-party test and lasts a long time. So again, we see it as like a slammed up for the right person who’s obviously open to that, um, but again when we’re looking at different types of filters, you know, yeah like I was mentioning, like our pitcher filter, it takes you know, 10 mins to fill the reservoir. Well, it’s doing its job. So sometimes fast is not a good thing. So
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! I love the, the water pitcher because one, it’s not expensive at all, especially when we know how important water is to our health. This is like, it’s just about prioritizing our health and knowing that 70% of your body is water and making sure it’s clean, right? You’re literally swimming in your water and if it’s clean then that’s great, if it’s toxic then it’s poisoning us, that’s a problem, and some people are in apartments and they’re traveling they haven’t the ability, so I love the ability to bring it with you and just put it in your fridge. So, I like this as a great option here. Can we talk so like, talk to me about the technology, so we have phase 1. There’s some kind of a medium, it’s flowing through like other brands are using charcoal or bone char. You have your kind of medium that’s a non-toxic medium that it’s, it’s moving through and then what’s, what’s there after that, like what’s the next step? So, there’s some kind of a filtration medium. What’s the next level up after that?
Israel Passwater: As far, as far as our filter or other yes
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s just for yours and then in general. What would other people have?
Israel Passwater: Yeah, I mean, it’s again, think of layers, so it’s like, you think of like a layer cake, it’s just.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So just, I got the image up so we have like a woven mask, some people would have the charcoal with a bone char because that’s kind of step one, right?
Israel Passwater: Yeah. And then go to step 2, you can scroll through and then
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, then you have your coconut carbon
Israel Passwater: all right and then you go to step 3 and then combine the shell, kind of like holds it together and stuff like that. So again, it’s again, even if we gave you the ingredients list like coke for example, like no they, they keep that under lock and key, what’s the secret, you know recipe for coke, we know right, right part of the sugar, part of this diet, the other thing but again we can give you the ingredients list but the way it’s put together that’s really what comes together. So again, not the first people that come up with the idea like this but again we have the best one. So, uh, but again think of like a meshed layer that can woven together and again it’s how it’s put together and what stage and how it’s composite in and what not. I can’t say much more than that but again, that’s right
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, so most people are just primarily having this stage 2, right? It’s a kind of stage 2 thing or
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You kind of have your pattern on page one.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With your mesh and then you have the stage 2 and then you obviously your stage 3 compartmentalized at all. That makes sense.
Israel Passwater: Most part, you’re not gonna take them apart inside like how is this put together it’s more like how fast is it doing, is it doing it and does the water taste good, again that’s just literally like the way I would have looked at it before, we started clearly filtering like, oh, okay, it goes, it’s going through, it’s not leaking, it’s not gonna leak into the reservoir. Okay great. Awesome. But again, stage 2 up for like a coconut carbon, it’s just like a block of, it’s gonna remove some stuff. That’s better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then we have all of our test results so we kind of know what it’s doing, that’s good. I like it. I think it’s great. If you guys wanna, if you guys enjoy the information and you wanna have an additional level to clean your water, justinhealth.com/clearly-filter. We’ll put the link down below, um, we’re just trying to provide a lot of education for everyone because, you know, I see a big gap in this field is, I recommend a lot of under the counter whole house systems but there’s a lot of people that, that can’t do that so this is a kind of a better mousetrap in that way, um, and we know water is so important. Anything else that, you know, Israel, that we talked about today, we didn’t go deep enough in, that you wanna highlight?
Israel Passwater: Yeah, no, I, I think one of the things too where we play really well is like you’re saying like on the go for people living in apartments and stuff like that. I think for, you know, just a skim, even when you’re traveling that’s why you’re getting more bottles you’ve got to wear filtered bottles which are kind of cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, you got a bottle too? See a filtered bottle that you can bring with you to. That’s great.
Israel Passwater: Which is good because like you know, my wife and I, we went to Hawaii for work, uh, a couple of about a month and a half ago and it’s like we brought our bottles and I actually brought a pitcher because I go, I want that convenience it actually fits into the refrigerator for like you know a Hawaii size you know, uh, refrigerator. So, I was like, that’s pretty cool, so you know again, we played really well for, for we offered the service then obviously you know great technology, great customer service, um, again, transparent, easy to use, easy to work with and again you know that’s really why I think kind of fun part about us, helping people live healthier lives is that where it, it’s easy to do so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool, so you got a portable bottle as well with that same mesh and activated charcoal technology that still filters out a lot of that while almost all the fluoride, all the chlorin, heavy metals, so it still has similar benefits as the actual. That’s great. Wow.
Israel Passwater: Yeah and most people like because they think like okay well I’ll have to fill up, you know, they have refilling stations at your gym, there’s nothing wrong with that but again they’re they have a filter on it but we’ll kind of filter it well, I don’t really know exactly and that’s where you think, well, you don’t have to worry about that it’s like or if you’re going to the airport now, that people are traveling now, hope it’s kind of helpfully winding down, you know, it’s like yeah and now that people are back to going they’re really focused on that, so that’s something that you think from an economic standpoint and typically, uh, I believe the stat was most people are spending about 1200$ a year in bottled water so you gotta Costco get the coarse blend, you know, 24, 36, and 48 packs, that’s a lot of money savings too so again if it’s money if it’s you know obviously chemical reduction, uh, indigestion, that’s, uh, something that we can definitely help with, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really good. Well in general, I think really important the solution to pollution is dilution. So you wanna have good clean water. Your cells need to regulate temperature, to pull toxicity out, run to help run our kidney, so really important to make sure kind of as a foundational right, clean food, clean water, good sleep, good movement, these are essentials to being healthy, so here’s another great product that I recommend, that recommend for patients and use myself that I think people would benefit from. Anything else, Israel, you wanna leave the listeners with?
Israel Passwater: Yeah, no, I think the biggest thing is like, you know, where if, if they’re interested in, you wanna choose, that make sure you did your research like do your homework and that’s with anything if you talk about supplements, uh, anything again, we read you know the back of packages, you know what I’m eating, so the same thing goes with like water filter so if it’s just us or somebody else, do your homework. Make sure you’re getting into, uh, I think that and we will shine after that but, uh, I think I really, it’s more just like I just again always encourage people to do their homework, think for themselves, question everything and that’s really important because again there’s a lot of misinformation out there or lack of transparency, um, so that’s kind of one of the downsides to our industry. It’s not very straightforward and so you really, really dig into the weeds there and again we’re busy too, I mean I work full time, my work works full-time, you’ve got a life, you’re trying to work out be healthy, you know, all those things but again, if you’re gonna invest in yourself, you can definitely want to make sure, you know, what you’re doing, you know, so if that goes with anything we’re not the whole piece of the pie but we are one piece of that, that’s overlooked like. I said, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, yeah. A lot of people that already are using a simply, you know using a filter already and it’s just we’re gonna exchange it out for something better that’s gonna clean the water better and then also I always tell patients, I’m not worried about stripping minerals out, they’re always, they’re already good supplements out there, where you can pinch a little bit of minerals back in. It’s easy to re-mineralize, it’s harder to pull out toxins.
Israel Passwater: Correct, yeah, correct. And remember, yeah like I said it’s a lot easier to do that than the opposite, you know, so that’s why obviously, we’re around and that’s why it’s something, the way I think it’s like, it’s one less thing to worry about, um, so if you worry about stuff being a parent, you know, being a healthy or not then you know, this gives you. One less thing, you know, have to consider, you know, if it’s at home on the go so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anytime you can set like your health habits on automatic, like okay I’m just plugging this in and then I’m just gonna continue with my routine and then now, I have a higher quality food or higher quality water, you get the benefit, right? The more we can set these habits on unconscious competence where it’s just automatic, it’s always better. I love that.
Israel Passwater: Yeah yeah and then one thing on the automatic too that, we’re talking about easy to work with, again, we have a subscription service so again, we ship domestically for free, uh, for anyone on our, uh, subscription and, uh, basically, the cool thing we need to talk about like not having a room with things I forget everything, you know, so I have to have everything written down or a calendar reminder, uh, but the cool part is you know, we can put it on auto ship so if you want one every two, three, four, five, six months, you control them, so the cool part is like that ability to be able to choose not to have to think about it or if you need to push it back, they can do that so again, we make it super easy for you, um, again, we have really great customer service team and we take good care of everybody, so I think again, that’s one less thing that I have to worry about, you know, imagine like, you know you have that with entire rotation, somebody automatically does that for, you instead of having to go down, the entire shop, get the oil change and entire rotation so we want to make it easy on you, you know but, um, that’s also powerful to know that you have full control of that too, so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Anything else, Israel, you wanna leave enlisted with?
Israel Passwater: No, I just thank you for your time. I’m really, I’m excited, I’m glad I get to be part of your audience and uh and here with you guys today and if they have questions, um, I don’t know if you want to funnel through you to me but they can, I can give you all my contact info, you can share that later too. I’m happy to give a resource to you, if I can and yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any questions you guys, put them in the comments that’d be awesome. You can always come back around on the youtube video and respond back and if you guys enjoy, I’m always trying to hunt down good products and this is definitely one we can add to that list. Everyone and then justinhealth.com/clearly-filtered and I’ll put the link down below. If you’re driving just go down below, first link, click it and you’re good. All right, Israel, phenomenal chatting with you, thanks for dropping all these knowledge bombs and have a phenomenal day.
Israel Passwater: Thanks Justin, good to see you man.
The Nuts and Bolts of Your Mitochondria – How to Enhance Mitochondrial Function | Podcast #349
Have you ever thought about what powers are inside your body? In this video, Dr. J and Evan talk about mitochondria and how to boost them.
When we talk about your body’s powers, the easy answer is nutrients, of course! Our body transforms those nutrients into energy, and it’s that energy that boosts the cells in our body. All types of cells have small generators called mitochondria that, in many ways, are their sources for life. Mitochondria are the only part of the cell where our basic life requirements — food and air — are combined to make energy in a process known as the Krebs cycle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:30: The role of creatine in mitochondria
6:34: Energy pathways
14:47: Cell Danger Response
16:07: Citric Acid Cycle
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mitochondrial function, your mitochondria, little the powerhouses in your cell and they help generate ATP which is the cellular currency of energy so to speak. And we’re going to talk about natural ways to improve mitochondrial function, Evan, and how we doing today, man.
Evan Brand: Doing really well. I think first, let’s dive into some of the big assaults that we have as a modern society on mitochondria. And that could be anything from viruses, bacteria, parasites, gut infections, pesticides, herbicides, heavy metals, plastics, phthalate’s, the BPA, the BPS, flame retardants, nonstick chemicals, car exhaust, air pollution. That I miss any I mean.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like you hit a lot of I would say being sedentary. There’s a lot of mitochondria in your muscles. And if you don’t do enough, you’ll put enough force to those muscles, they will atrophy. And so just not doing enough about creating enough stimulus on your body. That could definitely we can and decrease your mitochondria in your muscles. So, I would say, sedentary and in active resistance through your muscles.
Evan Brand: OK, OK that’s a good point. That’s a good point. So, you’re saying that, like, just in general, you have to have some level of physical stimulation physical activity to keep the mitochondria working. I guess it’s kind of like an old car that you’ve sat there…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All your muscles at least. Yeah, ’cause if you decrease, you know your muscle levels via just atrophy due to lack of use. Yeah, your muscles will shrink absolutely and that’s your mitochondria will shrink for.
Evan Brand: Sure, what about creatine? Do you know anything about the role of creatine in mitochondria? ’cause I know when I’m taking creatine, I just I feel stronger? Obviously, there’s creatine’s used a lot in like bodybuilding world, but there’s gotta be a mitochondrial mechanism there because I’ll tell you I feel like. I can lift, you know, at least a good 1020 pounds heavier on particular exercises with creatine in my system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, me crazy definitely has an effect on growth hormone and improving growth hormone stuff that will help with muscle. Creatine is like instant energy for the muscle. So, it’s it’s there. It’s ready to be used right away in that first 10 seconds or five, five to 10 seconds of muscle use or like explosion movement through that muscle. So, that definitely plays a role in muscle. I’m not sure how it plugs in 100%. I see ’cause really you know with ATP right in the mitochondrial function? If you look inside the mitochondria you have glycolysis and then you have the electron transport chain. Or I’m sorry, you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle and that plugs into the electron transport chain. So, glycolysis that’s going to be utilizing the carbohydrate in the muscle right glycogen in the muscle. Fast immediate source. I think creating plugs into that top part. And then you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle, where B vitamins, magnesium. All these different things kind of plug into that and with that. With the citric acid or Kreb cycle, that didn’t mean the same thing. Essentially, they’re grabbing hydrogens, right? So, there it’s it’s a reducing agent, so it’s just grabbing reproduce. Reduction is a gain in electrons and so you have NAD goes around. Then it grabs NADH so you get 3 NADH and I think 1FADH2 so you have FADH. And it grabs another hydrogen and that becomes FADH2, and so it’s grabbing all these hydrogens. And then it’s essentially bringing those hydrogens downstream into the electron transport. Jane and Beta fatty acid oxidation there and so yeah, I think you generate was at 36 to 39 ATP through the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain.
Evan Brand: Unless you’re in like chronic fatigue stayed, this cell danger response, and I think you’re spitting out something low like 2 maybe 3 ATP. I’ve read about this cell danger response. They just call it HDR in the literature, but it talks about how. The cell danger response, could be initiated by trauma or a car wreck or even mold exposure or tick-borne illnesses, or viruses. There’s a lot of you know, Epstein Barr. You’ll see the link between like mono and chronic fatigue. It said that these people are in this state of just a low power output, or even if you have the nutrients, you’re just not generating the ATP with some I don’t know if it was Caitlyn or somebody that you and I had looked into where there was a talk on this about. How the w the the ATP was literally in the single digits. The low single-digit output in some of these states. So, the message here is that for people that have chronic fatigue, you got to realize there is a mitochondrial component to this. Why don’t we talk about testing a little bit? The main thing that you and I are going to look at is going to be the organic acids. I know there are some other tests out there. I’ll admit I’ve had clients send them to me such as the mito swab. I’ve not run the model swab. Personally, I don’t know enough about it to speak on it much, but I’ll just say that it does exist. I believe it is a a mouth swab and it’s probably looking at just a couple generic markers in the saliva. But we like to use the organic acids test because, as you mentioned, there’s the Krebs cycle metabolites on there. We can look into the supinate or what some people call succinic acid. You’ve got the malic acid. You’ve got fumarate. There are other markers on there, and we we see when people have talks and exposure. Like I said in the beginning, the heavy metals, the mold, the pesticides will see those. Mitochondrial markers go up. And the higher the numbers go, generally, the more tired someone is because that indicates more damage to that Krebs cycle. So, the oh is huge, and then obviously we’ll look at stool too. Now the stool test you don’t measure like the stool tests we’re running. You’re not measuring mitochondrial function, but I look at it in a roundabout way. Meaning if you have all these gut infections producing toxins that could be damaging mitochondria as well, so we know that when we clear the gut out, we see the mitochondrial function improve.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yep 110%. I want to just put something on screens. People can see it here I guess is really helpful.
Evan Brand: Have you seen or heard about that my to swab before? Have you seen anybody send you those?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have, I’ve ran up. Fulham, it’s kind of a binary test. It gives you a result my the issue I have it’s not a lot of actionable information. It’s like OK, you know there’s some issues there, but then now what’s, what’s the remedy that you’re going to plug in from a diet lifestyle supplement? Toxin reduction execution right? What’s the next step on it? So that’s the problem with some. Of those tests, I always. Look and I always ask well what’s the corrective action based on the test showing uses a concern.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense.
Evan Brand: That’s the problem with a lot of them like I’ve seen a lot of these stool testing companies. Same thing there’s like so much data. Well, this percent of this bacteria and this percent of that. It’s like, what do I do with that? Is that an infection? Is that not an infection? So you and I’ve seen the same problem in other categories of health tests do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I want to show a couple things on screen here? Just so it’s crystal. Where the mitochondria is and how all these different energy pathways plug in, I think it’s important I’m going to pull it up here on screen in just a second so people can see it.
Evan Brand: Yeah, people listening on audio, they’re going to be lost. So just look up Doctor Justin YouTube page and you’ll be able to view some of this stuff. Some stuff, like mitochondria, gets a bit geeky. The the main thing here is toxins are a big factor in damaging this cycle and you gotta get toxins out. Reduce exposure where you can and we can run actually chemical test on your current too so we could talk about that in a minute.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, and so if you look here right. Do you have the mitochondria right here. Some middle part, the mitochondri. The outer part is the cytosol. So, from what I understand, like creatine is going to plug more into the cytosol and glycolysis, OK, but then you’re going to see you get about two ATP which is adenosine triphosphate. And this gets broken down into ADP and you get energy right? And so, you have glycolysis which generates a little bit of ATP 2. And creatine to plug more on the outside then that goes into your mitochondria. Now you have the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain electron transport chains part of also the beta fatty acid oxidation. That’s how you burn fat for fuel. OK, so Krebs cycle that churns around twice, and essentially what you’re doing is you’re gathering NAD and FADH2. NAD&FADH are grabbing hydrogen so and a design to grab a hydrogen making NAD. HFADH is going to grab a hydrogen, making FADH2, so I think you’re going to grab it’s like two or three. NADH is, and then one FADH2. And all those hydrogens then go into the electron transport chain here and this is where you generate most of your ATP. And again, what comes out, oxygen comes and this is why, if you’re like anemic right? And you’re not carrying oxygen. Well, that’s why you’re going to get tired and this is going to have an effect on your thyroid and your adrenals because the mitochondria is important for energy at all levels. And so if we have anemic issues or were inflamed because inflammation is going to make it harder to carry oxygen all. And also nutrition, because this electron transport chain, when we run the organic acid test, we can look at citrate, malate, fumarate, succinate. These are important metabolic essentially inputs into the Krebs cycle that correlate with certain nutrients like amino acids, alpha-lipoic acid, magnesium B vitamins, and so we can get a window on how this. Krebs Cycle was functioning based on the organic acid testing at some of those compounds and then all sister connotate citrate, right? These are really important, and then electron transport chain we can get a window into things like carnitine and Co Q10 ’cause they also play a major role in the electron transport chain. So we get a good window with how the mitochondrial function functioning by looking at the B vitamins and looking at a lot of these nutrients and so essentially things that can impair this. As you mentioned, pesticides. Heavy metals, mold toxins, antibiotics, and all these things have a negative impact. But that’s kind of how things look, so we have. Glycolysis is the first part that then goes into the mitochondria, and then we have Krebs cycle and electron transport chains. These are the big three. If you can kind of zoom out and see how it looks and how it makes sense. That should hopefully make more sense, so on that front. Any question that, Evan?
Evan Brand: Well people listening to that. They’re going to be like wow, this sounds like a really crazy rare problem, right? This must be just rare. This must be like a one in million case and I would say. Not going to say 99. I would say 90% of the people we work with. I see some level of mitochondrial dysfunction or damage either on the chemical profile test, so that’s something I alluded to earlier. We can run chemicals so we can look at gasoline. We can look at xylene. We can look at phthalates, all sorts of organophosphates. 24D is a major herbicide. I still see people at Lowe’s and Home Depot in the Garden Isle buying grass seed. That’s called weed and feed, weed and feed is a grass seed mixed with three different types of herbicides. It’s 24D, I believe it’s dicamba and glyphosate. Wait, I could have mixed one of those up, but either way, it’s three different chemicals, very toxic substances mixed with grass seed, and that’s like people just buy it and they don’t think anything of the term weed and feed. That means you’re going to be killing all the good stuff in your soil and poisoning yourself at the same time. It’s just not smart. So this mitochondrial thing. My point was, this is not rare, like when you show that image and people see that like. Oh no, that’s not happening to me. It’s like it happens every day, all day. I had mitochondrial damage, my latest test shows our mitochondria are much, much better, but I had significant mitochondrial damage from my mold exposure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting, I want to highlight one thing here so you can see creatine does primarily exist here in the cytosol, right? So if we zoom out, right cytosol is outside of the mitochondria, right? Right glucose, pyruvate here, so just so you guys can highlight here, creatine does go from the cytosol and it can go into the mitochondria. So, we did talk about creatine. It does primarily happen more in the cytosol outside the mitochondria, and it can go in via this. Mi-CRT kind of transport. Compound, so yeah, so creatine is a compound that we talked about that goes outside but can also go inside the mitochondria. To yeah Doctor Neil Nathan.
Evan Brand: That’s awesome! Doctor Neil Nathan did a huge thing for 155-page slide show that people can look up just called the Cell Danger Response. It’s very complex stuff. There’s going to be maybe a few geeky on that. People want to dive into that, but for your average person there’s not much takeaways built into that. But if you want to look into more of like the biochemistry side of it, then then you could look at it. But I think the big summary is it’s all. It’s all the Chemicals, and this is a relatively new problem I mean we face now over 80,000 chemicals are in the environment. Depending on what number you read, there’s only a small amount of those that are even tested. You’ll see stuff in Europe like oh Europe has banned these chemicals and makeup and personal care products, but the US was very far behind. And if you look at the environmental working group, they have a water testing report. You can look at and you can plug in your zip code. I mean just the amount of trihalomethanes’s pesticide herbicide residue pharmaceutical drugs that are in the municipal tap supply in your city are massive and you’re getting hit with this all the time. If you go to a restaurant and you eat rice, what do you think they make that rice with? They make it with tap water so you’re getting exposed to it that way too, which is why if I go out to eat, I don’t really do rice that often anyway. But if I do it, It’s going to be at home with good, clean filtered water.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. Anything else you want to say on that, so obviously get the toxin exposure. Super important hydration obviously really important to anything else you want to say on that?
Evan Brand: Yeah, you hit you hit the the Co Q10. You mentioned some of the markers we’re going to look at on the oak test, so we will use those. We have a formula. I believe you’ve got 1/2 mines called my to boost. It’s essentially like a multi for the mitochondria with all the Co Q10, ribose, carnitine B vitamins. So, when we see mitochondrial dysfunction, we can supplement that and we tell people this is a band-aid for your mitochondria. This is not some of it is the root cause, right? If you just are simply low and depleted in Co Q10, one could argue supplementing Co Q 10 is the root cause, but in reality it was usually. Oh here we go. Let me see if I can share this slide with you. Mainly it was the the toxins that led to this so let. Me share my screen really quick.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there is going to be because we do make Co Q10 on our own via the mevalonic acid pathway. And of course, as you get older, just like stomach acid, you’re gonna make less of it and so there there could just be a depletion based on age as well.
Evan Brand: Does that show up at all on your side? The video is that screen share show.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Try again.
There’s like a little bell there. Let me let me pop it up again. How about that, yes? Oh yeah, let me let.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Me highlight it, go ahead.
Evan Brand: Yeah, there we go. So, this is this is kind of what I was alluding to, and many many other people may have different ways to look at this, but this is from Neil Nathan. He had a great paper on this cell danger response and it just shows at the top here. Basically, everything I already mentioned like a flame. Heavy metals, pesticides, infection, so that would include viral issues as well. Mass cells, NK killer cells, cytokines, the microbiome. All these issues here are what really breaks this role. You know, the one of these is the final straw that breaks the camel’s back and then you end up in this what’s called the cell danger response phase. And then that’s where you get the issues with the mitochondria down regular. So there’s more in that. Like I said, it’s 155 pages. It’s like you got to be, you got to be, you know, have your bulletproof coffee before you look through that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, that makes a lot of sense, so your kind of really focusing on the toxicity and how that negatively impacts it. I want to just kind of tie in the dietary component. Why is food so important to enhancing the mitochondria? Let me let me break that down for a second here. This is important. OK, so this is really important. We talked about like Kreb cycle right? And so like this is our zoom out right? What’s happening here? We have glycolysis, Krebs cycle, electron transport chain outside of the mitochondria with the cytosol inside. Now check this out. This is a good one. This is from textbook of functional medicine, so. We have fats, carbs and proteins. These are our primary nutrients where everything comes from right. Fast could be coconut oil, grass fed butter could be fats from. Uhm, grass fed meat right? Our carbs can be vegetables, fruit, starch and our proteins could be protein powder or it could be animal protein, right? All of these essentially shuttled downstream. Fats get carried into the mitochondria via carnitine, so if you go into any biochemistry textbook, it’s called the carnitine. Shuttle right. Every medical doctor, doctorate level person would studied this at a graduate level. I studied as well now in the textbook of I think that guidance Physiology, but there’s another textbook of biochemistry that’s common at the graduate level. You know what the rate limiting amino acids to make carnitine are. It’s methionine and lysine and so really important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Guess what some of the rate limiting amino acids are in a vegetarian diet.
Evan Brand: Oh yeah, well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Medallion Leisinger actually very deficient in vegetarian diets, and so this whole process of a carnitine shuttle here that helps bring carnitine converts it into acetyl Co A. So then the actual it can get inside the mitochondria. And run through the citric acid cycle again. That’s the same thing as Krebs Cycle. They have multiple names. In medicine for the same thing, it’s just meant to confuse people. So citric acid cycle or the Krebs cycle. This is how we get fat inside the mitochondria is via carnitine. So very important, right so if we zoom out. Here, we have energy out here, fat. We get it inside via the carnitine shuttle. Super important there and then you see carbs. Right glucose, other sugars. We go pyruvate to lactate and we need guess what B vitamin? So if we’re putting in lots and lots of refined processed sugar and we’re insulin resistant, we can actually deplete B vitamins. And we can actually deplete a lot of magnesium and other nutrients downstream. So, this is really important. Too much carbs, too much sugar, especially if you’re insulin resistance and you’re putting on weight due to too much carbs. That’s going to be a problem, and you’re going to deplete nutrients now. Then we have proteins, amino acids. These all get converted downstream. We also need B itamin to support that now the difference is if you’re eating high quality protein. Guess what? You’re getting good quality B vitamins in that. Protein if you’re doing a lot of refined processed sugar, guess what? You’re not getting vitamins and nutrients with it. So carbohydrates, it’s possible to eat a lot of empty carbs that are actually going to deplete your nutrient levels. Protein not as much if it’s grass fed and organic right now, really, you’re taking all these nutrients, fats, carbs and proteins. You’re converting them into acetyl Co A. OK, you’re converting it to acetyl Co A and again we spit off beta-hydroxybutyrate what’s that? That’s a ketone now this is important. If we keep our carbs in check we can use ketones for fuel, so this is a really important fuel source or people that are going to be lower carb because we’re going to be more keto adapted. We’re going to be able to use that and then you can see here that acetyl Co A. Runs around the Krebs cycle. Twice we go 2 turns. Guess what, we need cysteine amino acid iron really important. So if you’re a female you have heavy bleeding your estrogen dominant you heavy bleeding that’s in effect energy magnesium manganese B vitamins lipoic acid magnesium B vitamins B vitamins tyrosine phenylalanine aspartate, glycine, histidine, arginine, proline. Glycine, valine methionine, right? These are all amino acids over here. So, we need amino acids to run these systems. We need B vitamins. We need magnesium and then of course, once we pump these things around, here’s our NADH and then our FADH should be there somewhere as well. So here NADH, it may not. They may just be oversimplifying it not showing it. But we have NADH here. We should have an FADH2 coming in. This all goes right into. Guess what? This is the electron transport chain and base. Yeah, fatty acid oxidation right there, right? This is now now hydroxymethyl Glutarate. This is Co Q10. This is where Co Q10 comes in and this is where it runs through the electron transport chain and burning fat for fuel and we generate our 36 to 38 ATP from all these three sources 1-2 and three and so that’s what’s happening in your mitochondria. So just to kind of highlight macro nutrients, fats, protein, carbs, very important two, don’t junk it up with all the toxins that you mentioned. And then of course, making sure we. Can breakdown protein. Make sure we’re getting enough iron making. Sure, we’re not. Anemic right? All of those things kind of flow into allowing all these pathways to to work optimally.
Evan Brand: That’s amazing, I love the breakdown to that. The visual super helpful. So just to clarify a little bit. So for women out there, you’re saying that if having heavy ministration, they have low iron. It’s not just the the low iron that we assume is creating like a low oxygenation, you’re you’re showing here. The low iron is literally creating a mitochondrial deficit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. You’re not getting the oxygen in right? If we go back to here, right? Mitochondria, what do we need to get into the mitochondria? Oxygen, what’s one of the big carrying capacities for oxygen in the body? Hemoglobin and then iron affects hemoglobin in red blood cells, right? Hemoglobin is part of the red blood cell carrying capacity and we need the iron to really keep the hemoglobin levels up so we can carry enough oxygen.
Evan Brand: Wow, so there’s why you’re tired.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Could be. Yet, one and then of course all of the other nutrients play a role. Not enough of the amino acids. The only issue with this graph, any biochemists that are looking on? I think the only thing that’s missing is really the FADH2, so it should. So, all these things, they’re just reducing compounds. Really, the whole goal of this Kreb cycle to run is just grabbing hydrogens. And then once we grab these hydrogens, Uhm, these things get cleaved off, and then it generates ATP. What’s happening there? And all these things like hydroxymethyl iterate. These are right. These are all driven through Co, Q10, right? We need Co Q10 to make that happen.
Evan Brand: Now for people like supplementing ketones, if you go back up to the top there, you can basically kind of inject your own spark plug into the cycle, I guess right? If you’re taking exogenous ketones, what is that doing in relationship to this whole cycle?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s giving you more beta hydroxybutyrate. The problem is your body is going to primarily want to use that when insulin levels are lower, so you have to keep your insulin levels and check. If not, you’re not setting your Physiology up to want to burn that. If you’re probably, gonna pee it out more like more than likely versus burn it. Cause typically, your body has an enzyme called hormone sensitive light pace where it wants to break down fat and convert more of these ketones. Hormone-sensitive light base is inverse with insulin. So hire your hormone-sensitive light pace is you need lower insulin to make that happen.
Evan Brand: So the lady who eats the donut and then goes to the store and buys her exogenous ketones, she’s wasting her.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probably not as good. There may be some mild benefits that you get cognitively just ’cause your brain has some additional fuel to run on. If people brains are insulin resistant, they may have a lot of sugar from that doughnut, but the cells in their brain maybe so numb. To it that they may not be able to access it so some ketones could be helpful, but in the end, you want to fix the insulin resistance if you’re going to do it. Try doing both. Don’t just do the ketones. Try to do both that you can.
Evan Brand: And you can make your own ketones too. For free.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah, that’s how you’re doing that you keep in your insulin in check. And you’re going to start. Making your own. 100%.
Evan Brand: Yeah, cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool, that was awesome. Very cool guys. I hope you guys enjoyed today’s podcast. We’re trying to be a little bit more visual; you know. Go into some hard hard science Y stuff, but you know just kind of zoom out. Like what’s the take home right? The take home is don’t put junkie toxins and that screw up your mitochondria right? Antibiotics, I mean antibiotics? You know if if you have an acute infection that’s not resolving, you know you gotta do what you gotta do, right? You have an acute pneumonia. You gotta do what you gotta do. Talk to your doctor about it. Just don’t go to antibiotics all the time as your first line defense. Try to do some. More natural things to fix it #2 you know, try to be aware of mold in your environment. Make sure you’re not. Getting exposed to pesticides. Chemicals heavy metals. Make sure you’re doing your best to hydrate right. We need water to make this whole thing work too. I would say after that make sure you have your macronutrient style, then good quality protein fats and carbohydrates. Organic sources dial in your carbs so you’re not insulin resistant and make sure your inflammation is good. Inflammation helps with oxygenation and blood flow. Then after that we can look at using supplemental nutrients in my line and Evans line we have mito supports products mine is mito synergy. Evans is my toe. Boots will put links down below. Those products have a lot of these nutrients. It’s going to have the ribose to creatine the carnitine, the B vitamin. Since it’s going to have the Co Q10, it’s going to have actually Kreb cycle intermediary compounds like fumarate malate, succinate. All those different nutrients or run those pathways better. Of course, that all sits on top of a solid diet. Don’t take supplements if you’re going to eat crap, eat really great and then say OK now I’m going to work on enhancing it. And again, we can run testing on organic. Message to look at some of these intermediary nutrients, like citrate to connotate succinate bloomer, a mallet we can actually test them, which is pretty cool.
Evan Brand: Yeah, the testing is the best part because you you know if you actually need it. I can tell you the average person has mitochondrial problem, so in general, could you just take this? I kind of call it a multi for the mitochondria. Could you just take that test? You know like a guess and check you could, but we like to see the data and obviously my biggest thing is looking for mold colonization. Candida overgrowth clostridia. Some of these gut infections and how that affects your brain chemistry too. So when you do the oh, you really are getting the best bang for your buck in terms of testing. Like if you could only do one test out there, I think the oh it would. Probably be the number one most.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Important 110%. Anything else you want to say?
Evan Brand: If people need help, they can reach out to you worldwide or me worldwide. Doctor J at justinhealthcom me Evan at evanbrand.com and we would love to chat with you about your symptoms, your goals and we’ll tell you for your good fit for care, so please feel free to reach out. Look forward to helping you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Foot and get adjusted. Help calm here and then you guys have any questions, comments or concerns. Put him down below. Let us know. Kind of what you’re doing. What’s working that really helps us out as well. Very cool. Alright guys, well you guys have a phenomenal day here and we’ll. Be in touch. Take care of y’all.
Evan Brand: Sounds good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright Bye bye.
Genova NutrEval FMV
Natural Way to Increase Blood Flow And Decrease Inflammation | Podcast #343
For starters, blood flow is why your body can get what nutrients it needs and how it can eliminate what it doesn’t. If you have reduced blood flow, your body will take longer to heal and recover. Reduced blood flow can often result in inflammation, pain, muscle cramps, fatigue, numbness or coldness in the hands and feet, digestive issues, and slower recovery time.
According to Dr. J and Evan, there are three primary concerns to address when looking at improving circulation by reducing inflammation, blood viscosity (blood’s stickiness or thickness), and supporting healthy arterial function (ensure the arteries can contract or dilate needed).
So, how can food help us to do that? While the healthy foods we eat can benefit our blood flow and circulation, some foods are to be aware of as part of a healthy diet. Often, the additives we add to our food through sugars, trans fats, and salt can be tasty but with a few adverse side effects.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:57: Inflammation and ways to reduce it
4:46: Signs and symptoms of hypercoagulability
11:07: Natural Herbs to improve blood circulation
16:47: Tips to improve blood circulation and reduce inflammation
20:06: Food template, tests, and supplements
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are are live! It’s Dr. Justine Marchegiani here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we’re going to chat about blood flow. How do we increase blood flow, decrease coagulation, decrease inflammation. All the natural strategies to get to the root cause. Blood flow is really important. We need blood flow to carry oxygen. We need to carry nutrition to our organs and our body systems. And if we have stress in our body, whether it’s infection, inflammation, diet issues, lifestyle issues, hormonal imbalances that affect circulation, that’s to impair our body’s ability to generate energy, generate heat; right healthy metabolism, feel good, feel energized. And we’re going to dive in on that topic today. Evan, how are we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Doing really well. You know, I had a few friends actually suggest that I had a hyper coagulation problem due to batonella and babesia, and mold toxin, and some other crap I’ve dealt with. And so I ran a coagulation panel. There’s some of these coagulation panels online that you can order and I went and run the blood on myself and my, my panels turned out perfectly. Even according to some of the functional ranges. Now, I don’t have a baseline. You know, several years ago, when I first got exposed to mold to compare to. But I will tell you just in terms of symptoms; my great coagulation blood work results correlates with my symptoms. Meaning, my hands and feet are perfectly warm these days. I told you years ago, my arms and feet are chronically cold . I mean, as long as I can even remember, even as a child, I remember my feet being freezing and having to use a little electric space heater in my grandma’s basement to keep my feet war. I remember that from years ago. So I’m just really happy that the blood showed fine and some of the strategies which we’re going to dive into today that those worked and those actually helped me because, on paper I look great and symptomatically doing much much better in the blood flow department.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Yeah, I love that. Makes a lot of sense. So of course, one of the first things that we look at when we’re trying to improve blood flow is reducing inflammation. So when you have lots of cytokines or in interleukines or inflammatory messengers, right? They’re there to kind of say, “hey we have inflammation”. And what is inflammation? Let’s define that. Everyone talks about it but, what is it? So, inflammation is essentially we have this increase in cytokines, interleukines, due to the fact that our body is breaking down faster than it is repairing, okay. There’s natural inflammation that is good. Like think of having a good workout, right? You naturally get a little sore afterwards and then a day or two later, you get stringer and your muscles get more, I don’t know, adaptable. And then you develop more strength, more tensile strength, more power, more output; because your muscles adapted to that inflammation. So there’s a little bit of inflammation but in the end, your body adapted to it and it built up just a little bit more than it broke down on average, right? That’s healthy inflammation. And so, inflammation that we’re talking about is inflammation out of balance. Were let’s say you work out a little bit too hard. And now that soreness is prolonging days later, and now you’re almost a little bit weaker than when you started because the breakdown is now greater than the build up. And so healthy inflammation is the build up is a little bit greater than the breakdown that’s healthy inflammation. Unhealthy inflammation is the breakdown’s a little bit higher than the build up, and that’s what we’re talking about today. And so, of course, too much exercise, too much inflammatory foods, especially in the way of foods that are nutrient poor, foods that are too high in refined vegetable oils, good healthy fats; they become your cell membranes. Every cell has a lipid bilayer in the body. The brain’s you know, 70 fat and cholesterol. So if you are eating junky fats, that’s going to cause your cell membranes to turn over to being very unhealthy. It’s also going to cause your brain to turn over to be very unhealthy and there’s some data showing that you’re going to have those cell membranes hung up to six years with the junky fats that you’re eating. So you’re really want to look at the fat. So, vegetable oil fats not good because they have to be processed in a way that damages those fats in the extraction process. And so you have a lot of oxidation happening, a lot of hydrogenated oils due to either oxidation or the trans fat process that occur. And again, you, why are fats made in the trans fats because they have a longer shelf life, right? And so, we want fats if they’re on the plant side, they’re not going to be denatured, so avocado oil may be okay, olive oil of cold press, and extra virgin and good quality and good brand’s okay. Of course our saturated fats are the best because they’re the most heat stable. So coconut animal fats, maybe some palm, of course like any of your tallows are really good, especially if the animals are healthy and pastured raised. These are going to be your best fat, so at least 50 percent of our trans fats, we want to be saturated, high quality, because it guarantees them not being oxidized and we’re acidified.
Evan Brand: Yep! Well said. And so when you define hypercoagulability, this is a term that’s thrown around a lot now, or you could just call it increased coagulation. What they’re really talking about is some sort of a build up. Like, you know, you mentioned whether it’s inflammatory cytokines, or what’s cal fibrin things that are affecting the capillaries which as far as my research goes, it’s pretty interesting stuff. Capillaries, they’re so small but the red blood cells have to go in single file line to get to get through the capillaries. So if you have a build up of fibrin from some sort of inflammatory reaction, whether it’s to a mold, a virus, or some other pathogen that can affect those capillaries, which then creates some of the cold hands, cold feet. So let me just riff on symptoms for a minute and then we can go there. So, uh, symptoms wise, let’s say cold hands, cold feet, let’s say cold nose, I would say erectile dysfunction, could be a big one too for men. A lot of coagulation issues with men you see, uh, reduced blood flow and of course, side effects-erection. I would say brain fog would be big too. You mentioned, you got to have blood flow to get to the brain. So I would say, brain fog, maybe memory issues, fatigue, I would say muscle fatigue as well. So if you’re noticing that you’re having trouble lifting weights or you’re having a lot of post-exertional malaise, it could be mitochondrial related. We’ve talked about that before but, I think the coagulation could be part be part of it too. So I’m a big fan of lumbrokinase which I think is one of the big remedies that’s really helped me. Lumrokinase is way stronger that nattokinase which is which is commonly sold. Lumbrokinase is like the big daddy, the big brother above natto. And I tell you, it’s been an absolute game changer. If I take that, not only does my brain work better but my hands and feet are warm. So just in terms of like, solutions, you know, you could run a coagulation panel, and I think it’s easiest, rather than trying to run through all the markers, like d-dimers and all that. Instead of running through all that. I think it’d be easier. We could just like, put a link in the show notes for like a coagulation panel app, like you could run through lab corp request, and if people want to dive into it, they can but, I think those…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So on some of those markers, what would some of the markers that you’d look at on the coagulation side?
Evan Brand: Yeah, I wish I had my lab in front of me. I could pull it up.
Dr. Justin Machegiani: I’ll give you c couple that. I give you a couple that. So we talked about inflammation; we talked about interleukinesand cytokines. Why does that matter? Because the more inflammation you have in your bloodstream, the more sticky cells get, okay. Cause think about it, right? From inflammation standpoint, why would your cells get more sticky from an inflammation standpoint, right. Let’s kind of look at what’s, you know. What are the, um, the intentional, like what’s the intention of our creator and making us and why would that happen, right? Because we have to look at the fact there’s an innate intelligence as to why our body does things. It doesn’t do it by accident. And I would say that most of our stress that we experience as we evolve as a species is through a cut, and injury, a fall, something very acute. So our body is trying to stick things, glue things back together, prevent us from bleeding out, right? Allow scar tissue to form to help heal and recover, whatever that damage area is, right? That kind of make sense now. The problem is, we have less acute damage like, falls, crashes, and these things. But we have this chronic, degenerative inflammation that’s happening. So, yeah. Starting to create many bits of scar tissue which again, that is going to be making cells, stick together, so you’re looking at things such as fibrin, increased platelet aggregation. Meaning, platelets are the little cells that flow through your bloodstream that help you create clots, right? Platelets then create fibrin so it creates these clots . And so then you’re having deceased blood flow because of clots, because cells are more sticky because of inflammation. And that’s there to help, help your body do better when it comes to stress or something acute; but we’re having this chronic degenerative stress and of course, high levels of blood sugar, high levels of insulin are going to make your cells more sticky, right? This is why we see in diabetes, right, when Evan talks about a lot of the capillaries when they go a single file, we see that a lot in the eyes, and so we see a lot of eye aneurysm stuff, a lot of eye issues in diabetics, a lot of limb issues because really poor blood flow in the capillaries going on to the finger and the hands. And so high levels of insulin from high levels of blood sugar that also creates the advanced glycation end products which are essentially the sugar coated proteins that are oxidized because the high blood sugar, and that oxidation depletes things like vitamin C and vitamin A, and vitamin E, And so we have less of these nutrients to help our eyes, to help our skin, to help our collagen, to help wound healing, and then you start to have very poor blood flow, decrease immune cells. Getting to the extremities, the hands, and feet; and then you develop a gangrenous lesion on your foot with all this inflammation and poor blood flow, and then you have have it chopped off because it starts to create and infection. So you can see how all these things start to spiral out of control and of course, blood sugar inflammation, um is kind of the hallmark of how all this starts. We’ll go more into things that you can do. So Evan mentioned like the lumbrokinase. Excellent! Seropeptidase, the enzyme from that silkworm, excellent. Right? These are systemic enzymes taken away from food. Those enzymes come in kind of like a rato-rooter or a liquid plumber would for like, a clogged hair in your drain, in your toilet, right? So it breaks it down, okay? Now we have to make sure that we’re getting to the root cause but, in general, that’s helpful because it’s not going to be as inflammatory, it’ll break down scar tissue; it has a lot of anti-cancer immune benefits because when it hits all these cytokines, it kind of dissolves them and breaks them down so it does help reduce inflammation which is great.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you made a great point too about diabetics suffering from this issue quite a lot in the blood sugar component. That’s huge! And then, also, one thing to note too when you do start to dissolve some of the fibrin, you may, if it’s due to the infection, you may have some sort of a die off or like herxheimer reaction. So just keep that in mind, and obviously if you’re working with one of us, we’re going to coach you through that process but, if you have a practitioner that’s maybe not aware of that, then they may not know why your symptoms are flaring up if you start to dissolve some of this fibrin. So for example, when I first started ramping up lumbrokinase, I was also doing some biofilm busting nutrients, and some may argue that you’re busting biofilm with things like this and so I had a reaction. You know, I got some headaches, I got some anxiety, I had some heart palpitations and some other symptoms, indicating I was probably releasing something that was hiding within that fibrin. And so, if you have a reaction, you feel worse on something like the, uh, like you said, seropeptidase or maybe, nattokinase, or lumbrokinase. You could be on to something, and as you mentioned too, you don’t want to just live on this enzymes and not get to the root cause. So for me, I really do think babesia has been a big one for me because, when I’m taking herbs to address babesia, I find that the circulation is much better. For some people, it could be bartonella. They call it small vessel disease. If you look into pubmed, you could look up small vessel disease bartonella. This is an infection that can come from ticks but it can very very easily come from cats. Many many cats, like 90 percent of cats have bartonella and if they scratch you, you can get bartonella from your cat, you can get it from fleas, so there are other vectors that can transmit this. So some people say like, “ oh I never had a tick bite”, doesn’t matter. I’ve seen many many people with bertonella and likely from their cats. And so, you may want to come in with herbs and knock out bartonella while you’re working on the fibrin. And I know you and I use a product that’s a mixture serapeptadase, and ginger and boswella, and turmeric. So we kind of working on the inflammation piece and the fiber piece at the same time, and it’s a great one-two punch.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, any of my patients listening know that I’m always using ginger tea, right? I’ve kind of taken the ginger tea recipe which Is I think it’s pretty famous in the gaps protocol and I’ve used that, and I’ve added in a lot of the, um. Manuka honey because it’s very soothing on the gut, and it has some mild antibacterial properties and anti-inflammatory for the gut. So I do that with a lot of my patients because it sues the tummy, it is an anti-biofilm, so it allows any of the herbs that I’m using with my patients to knock any bugs down. It helps make the herbs stronger, and it’s anti-inflammatory, um, which me, and it’s also an anticoagulant. So the anti-inflammatory, anticoagulant, just allows one better blood flow, better flow allows those herbs to kind of work better and be transported throughout the body, and then it also prevents the lymph from being congested. So it just allows things to be kind of move around and excreted from the body. So you have to move things through the liver, through the kidneys, to the guts. So we need to have that good movement to allow things to work appropriately. So that’s, that’s really really important out of the gates; and also on working with a lot of lyme patients or co-infections; all that plays a major role. I would say other herbs you can use are things like bacopa, uh, gingko is also amazing, you can do things that have, um, uh, nitric oxide support in there like beetroot. These are all beets are excellent You can get beetroot powder, that’s very helpful at supporting blood flow. Things like resveretrol are also very good, right; antimicrobial but also really help with good blood flow, so um, that’s excellent as well. Uh, cat’s claw can be really good as well, because anytime it has antimicrobial, antioxidants, and then it reduces inflammation. That naturally tends to improve blood flow. So better blood flow is good. So we can one have good circulation to the hands and feet, we’re carrying nutrition better.; we’re carrying more of the herbs to help whatever the microbial imbalance is, and then we’re supporting lymphatic flow of all the dead debris out. Has to move out to the body, get circulated to the lymph, go back to the kidneys, and the, and the digestive tract to be excreted out. So those are some really good herbs that we’ll also use, skull caps also really good as well. Um, you mentioned turmeric which is really good, and then outside of that, adaptogens can be really powerful too. Because, if we have lots of cortesol from inflammation and stress, cortisol is also going to cause things to not move as well because, it’s there; it’s responding to inflammation but it’s also going to slow down a lot of blood flow. So if we can, and this is kind of more in a chronic um, scenario, right, not talking acute, talking more chronic. Because acute, there is acute blood flow to an injury, because that’s how the body is trying to heal stuff. Let’s try to drive level that’s why when you bump your elbow, it gets swollen right, there’s increased blood flow. We’re talking about more cortisol chronically, and so we’ll use things like adaptogens, whether it’s thodiola or ashwagandha to really calm down that chronic stress response and really get it kind of modulated to help improve cortisol which then helps with blood flow long term.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you made a great point like the bacopa, the gingko. I mean, there’s a reason all all these herbs that we’re talking about are inside of brain formulas. Look at any professional companies, whether it’s ours or any other companies that are using nutrients to support the brain health, guess what? Gingko is always in there so it’s cool because it helps systemically and that of course, improves the brain function. There’s a lot of cool studies about gingko with micro-circulation in the brain. I love gingko. I take it, I take phosphatidylserine, I do choline, acetylcholine, I do acetol cermitine, I do like a blend of all these things and I tell you, it really makes a difference. Do you want to hit on a couple more of the foods you mentioned? The beets…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, that’s important.
Evan Brand: Okay. I love beats. Like, I’ll do beet powder and I mix it with my vitamin C powder. It’s so delicious that combo, and I’m not joking like, 10 minutes after I drink a scoop of beet powder with vitamin C, my hands are so warm, like they’re alsmost flushed because there’s so much blood flow there. I mean, I feel it instantly. And then, that really helps in the sauna too. So if you’re having issues with sweating, that could be due to poor blood flow, poor nitrate oxide. So my personal advice because I’m historically not a good sweater, I will do beet powder and then do a few minutes of a rebounder, and then I’ll jump the rebounder most folks know what that is kind like a mini trampoline. I’ll jump into the sauna after that, and with the beet powder rebounder combo, I sweat like 50 % faster.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Very cool. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I mean, I’d say like from a foundation of people listening like, we’re throwing a lot of stuff out there, right? So what’s the order of operations and how you try things. So the first thing is, get your diet under control. So the first thing is, control dysglycemia, control blood sugar swings, high levels of blood sugar, high levels of insulin are going to cause things to get really sticky when they flow. The second thing is really improve the nutrient density; lot of good antioxidants, so a lot of good green vegetables, uh cutting out food allergens from dairy and from gluten and of course, refined sugar and inflammatory junk foods, really improve the nutrient density in the vegetables if you’re going to choose fruit, choose nutrient-dense fruits are not overly high for what you can handle metabolically of course, really good healthy fats; remember omega-3 fatty acids are natural blood thinner. Quite before surgery, they’ll say like you know, no fish oil or systemic enzymes taken away from you know, taken within the couple of days of surgery because, they don’t want you to bleed out, right. So especially high quality, god healthy, you know, local like maybe while the last guy kind of frozens you know, salmon or a really good clean tuna, just try to choose wild farm type of fish; these are going to have excellent omega-3 fatty acids, and then of course, choosing grass-fed meat, excellent. Because you’re going to get a lot of GLA fat, you’re going to get a lot of good clean fats from the cow eating grass which is super helpful. So fats are really important, they’re natural anticoagulants and then they help make a good healthy cell membrane so your cells can communicate and function optimally.
Evan Brand: Let me make one note about the lumbrokinse because, you see that warning label and you and I kind of heed that warning but, I saw a podcast interview that Dr. Jill Carnahan did with a lady named Dr. Ann Courson. She’s been kind of the bog voice about coagulation and talking about lumbrokines. She said it’s really non-issue and while she still may, and this not verbatim but, while she may pull these things out temporarily, she’s had people that like went into emergency on high-dose fish oil and high-dose lumbrokinase and they had no bleeding issues at all. So this is not heparin or crazy intense blood thinners from pharmaceutical industry. These natural blood thinners even though they may be potent, she said, she’s never seen a single case of anyone bleeding out so that there’s probably too much warning and too much fear about the fish-oil and these enzymes thinning the blood. She’s never seen it cause any major problem.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, heparin, warfarin, they have anew one the plavix one, right? These are different blood thinners that are out there. Yeah, I mean you definitely want to talk to your anesthesiologist last surgeon follow their instructions on these things. I think it’s safe just to be off it, uh, during a procedure and let your doctor know about it.
Evan Brand: And I’m saying just, and by the way, I’m saying just the natural stuff, the drugs, I have no clue about them, I’m not a pharmacist, but like fish oil. Should you take a few days off? Yeah. You probably should but, just foe anybody’s fearing but for anybody that’s afraid like oh my God, I had to go to ER and I had to get this emergency surgery, am I going to bleed to death because I’m on fish oil, the answer looking at her perspective was no, not at all.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah. Probably not. I mean, I am far more worried about someone going into surgery being totally inflamed and developing clots, um, or having a polmunary embolism or a stroke or something like that. The bleeing out, right? You know but, in general, don’t be on high doses of blood thinners that we’re talking about. The natural ones, if you know you have a plan surgery just in general. In general, I mean, consuming fish, eating fish, I don’t see a problem with a lot of these things. And outside of that you know, what other markers we can look at. So of course, we mentioned, um, fibrin or fibrinogen which is a marker. So fibrinogen is the inactive form of fibrin, and so high levels of fibrinogen mean you have a lot of clotting building blocks. Higher levels of platelets could be something to look at. I would say, elevations and inflammatory compounds like homocysteine, ESR-Erythrocyte Sedimentation Rate. CRP C-Rective Protein. These are all inflammatory markers that tell us, okay, inflammation is present, the more chances their inflammation is up, cells are going to stick together, the more cells stick together, it’s like trying to walk out double doors, three or four people side by side. It’s just gonna clog up the flow, right? And so that’s gonna help give you an indication that some things are not flowing well, and then you can try different strategies, the ones we’re talking about go back and retest those markers, and that’s helpful. I would say the one marker that’s a little bit different, the homocycteine, that’s going to happen typically due to inactive or not enough high quality methylated B vitamins. Usually folate, usually B6, B12 – these are important vitamins. If you don’t get them, in methylated or more active forms, this metabolite of homocysteine can accumulate and these B vitamins decrease homocysteine. So how it works is, it goes methionine, a dental homocysteine, homocysteine, to cycteine. This is kind of metabolism, a breakdown of methionine into cysteine, and cysteine goes into glutathione. This healthy metabolism requires these B vitamins, right? Folate, methylated B12, right? Um, B6, right. These are important nutrients need to be there so we can take that homocysteine and brign it through all the way down to cysteine and metabolize optimally. If not, it can be inflammatory and affect the arteries and the area where the blood’s flowing and create inflammation and plaquing.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And just to take it a step further just so people are like what the heck is he saying? So when you’re looking at this one blood, you’re saying when you see the elevated homocysteine, or we can even look at some of these metabolism markers on the organics acids. When you see this elevated, you know that there’s usually a B vitamin deficiency, correct? That’s what you’re saying, elevated homocysteine on the blood.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, D vitamin deficiency or you’re just getting a lot of crappy B vitamins right? You’re getting a lot of folic acid, you’re getting a lot of B12 that you may not be methylated. You’re getting a lot of B6 that may not be activated. So we want to make sure you’re getting lots of activated B vitamins, high quality. In my line we use one called B vitamin synergy, we’ll put the link for that below. Of course like your best natural source for these type of vitamins are going to be green leafy vegetables, and high quality grass-fed organic meats right? So sometimes people have an mthfr issue and they need more of those B vitamins and so that’s want to make sure the supplements are great. And if you’re consuming a lot of like processed crappy orange juices and grains, you may get a lot of folic acid and crappy B vitamins there. That’s the case you want to cut those out. You want to get lots of good natural B vitamins from the source I just mentioned. And you want to take a really goof clean B vitamin supplement that’s going to have those in methylated activated forms, and if we’re doing testing on like a um, mthfr blood test. We would look at those phenotypes and see what’s present but organic acids are wonderful too because, we can look at markers like kind of urinate, xantharinate to look at B6. We can look at markers like fig glue or four amino glutamate to look at folate. We can look at markers like methylmalonic acid to look at B12. So there’s different markers. We can look at betahydroxy isovalerate, right? These are all good markers for B vitamins to look at. So we can see if these things are, if we have metabolic demand issues, we can go and tweak those accordingly.
Evan Brand: And most people are depleted and have issues. I mean, obviously we’re a little bit biased because we’re working with people that don’t feel well but, we know that even the people that work with us, they’re doing a hell of a lot better than the average American in terms of diet and lifestyle, and stress, and sleep, and hopefully all of those factors. And so if we see they’re deficient the way we see often, then we know the average American’s deficient too because, you’re burning up these bees when you’re stressed. That’s a whole other podcast but, you did a great job on, on hitting on the markers. There’s a couple more like new ones. Like ther was like anti-thrombin that was on this panel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. That’s another one. That’s kind of like fibrin. It’s another type of clothing factor.
Evan Brand: You had the d-dimer which is really tough to get a doctor to actually run d-dimer. That’s why you and I luckily, we run our own blood work but, if you just went to your regular doctor and said I want a d-dimer. Unless they think you’ve got an active blood clot, they’re probably not going to run this for investigative purposes. I don’t know why but even vitamin D, some clients have to beg just get vitamin D so…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. With d-dimer, that’s typically run if someone’s on a blood thinner. I don’t think plavix requires it now but, if you’re on like, one of the older blood thinners that requires you to make sure d-dime are stable. They’ll run that because they’re worried about like, oh my god you eat more green vegetables that is vitamin K, vitamin k increases clotting factors. They’ll want you to want to adjust your d-dimer accordingly. Or they want to adjust your dosage of your medication according to the dimer. So my whole thing is if you’re not eating a whole bunch of green vegetables because, your doctor is worried about it, well I would just say eat some green vegetables, tell them you want to have good, green vegetables but then have them run a d-dimer and adjust your clotting, your medication according to you eating a good, healthy diet. I see people that are scared of green vegetables because their doctors are too lazy to re-test their d-dimer and adjust their medications.
Evan Brand: Oh wow. Yeah. I understand that but yeah. That was most of it, that was most of the stuff there. So you did a good job hitting on it and like you mentioned a lot. We’re throwing a lot at you here supplements and foods, and beets, and talked about nitric oxide. I mean, really I think you’ve hit the messages. Getting the inflammation out of the diet and then looking into the testing because, some of the functional medicine testing we run outside of blood work can provide data on what’s going on. And then obviously, mycotoxins are huge. So for me, when I get exposed to mold, if I stay in the moldy hotel for a weekend, guess what? My hands and feet go cold. I mean it’s almost a direct impact. So I’m not saying that’s everyone’s smoking gun but, it’s a big factor that’s not really talked about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, right. So I always try to boil things down to a process, right? What’s the concept, what’s the process? A process is something we can consistently repeat. It’s kind of like in fourth grade, you learn pemdas, right? Remember pemdas? It’s the way you do a math problem. That there’s addition, subtraction, division, all these different things in one line. What’s the process, pemdas right? Well today, what’s the process here? The first thing is one, make sure the food you eat is anti-inflammatory nutrient dense low toxin. That’s the first thing. Second thing is get your blood sugar under control because yes, you can eat really good foods but, your glycemia, your blood sugar can be out of control and that can increase insulin, coagulation, clotting, right? So first thing is nutrient density anti-inflammatory diet. Second thing is get your macronutrients under control. Third thing is get lifestyle strategies under control. Don’t exercise too much. Exercise enough, start making sure sleep is under control. Sight? Start making sure you’re drinking good clean, filtered water with extra minerals. Make sure there’s enough minerals in there. If you can add in different strategies like, rebounding or whole body vibration, or sauna therapy, excellent. Then maybe at that next level, we can start going into, um, supplements, right? What are the easiest supplements to add in? Well, good healthy fats, good healthy fish oils. Maybe some some extra ginger, maybe some systemic enzymes right? You don’t have to start with everything. There’s a lot of things we put out there. It’s like a poople platter. We don’t got to do it all. Just try to start with one or two things but, start with that order of operations. Follow the process; don’t get overwhelmed by everything; just follow the process. And the next thing after that is you know, if you have inflammatory conditions, autoimmune issues, thyroid issues, crohn’s, ulcerative colitis, colitis, uh, lime, co-infections, autoimmune issues, and you have chronic inflammation chronically cold hands, cold feet blood flow issues, you have to look at thyroid, you have to look at your hormones, you have to look at the gut; and this is where it’s good to bring on a good functional medicine practitioner like us. So if you want to reach out to Evan, evanbrand.com or myself, Dr. J – justinehealth.com. That’s kind of where your next step to kind of go a little bit deeper, to kind of you know, hire that trail guys that’s been to the top of mount Everest hundreds of times. So you can have the confidence that we’re going the right way and not taking a shortcut off a cliff so to speak.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s great. Well said. It’s just so great to be able to reverse some of these stuff. I mean, I just assumed that was me. I just had cold hands, cold feet, and I thought, okay. That’s just me for some reason, I just don’t have good blood flow here, and I just kind of like owned it, and I think a lot of people are listening. They own these symptoms and they get used to their way of life, and like nope that’s just the way I am. I’m just a depressed person. It’s like no, there’s a reason for that. I do believe that we truly have a baseline of being healthy and optimal, and good blood flow, and good brain function, and good sex drive, and good sleep. If you look at like tribal societies, they don’t have these type of issues. They don’t have these chronic issues with blood pressure and mood issues. Some of these like ancestral people, they don’t even have a word for depression. It’s not even in their language. So I just encourage you if you’re listening, and you’re just owning your symptoms, and you’re like that’s just me, don’t own it anymore. Just know that that’s okay that something’s wrong, there’s a dysfunction going on. There’s likely a cause of it and we’re investigators at heart. I mean, we love this stuff so like you mentioned, if you want to reach out, justinhealth.com for Dr. J, evanbrand.com for me. We’d love to help you, and help you get to the next level of health. It’s totally possible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I would say don’t own it form the perspective of like, hey this is just me, this is how it it is but, own the process. Like you know, one of the root things that I can be working on to get these things under wraps. I think that’s a really important kind of uh, step to be looking at, okay? Anything else guys, feel free and let us know, comments down below. We’re really happy to help you and kind of get to the next step with you all. Feel free, evanbrand.com, justinhealth.com and we’re happy to help. Anything else you want to add Evan?
Evan Brand: No, that’s it. Just keep moving forward. That’s the goal. There’s not a finish line so just keep, getting to the next level, you know, It’s not like, my life’s going to be perfect when I get cold hands and cold feet resolved. No, you could do that and still be miserable. So you gotta just chipping away, okay? Don’t give up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: yeah. And then also, kind of one thing. People in the comments asking about couple different questions here. Um, just want everyone to know in our climate today, there’s some off-limit topics that you know, we’re not touching, and people kind of read between the lines on this, and we’ve made a decision that there’s a lot of other information that is so important to um, put out there to everyone. So we’re staying away from some health topics not for the goal of censorship but because, we want to be able to put other health topics like we’re talking about today out there so everyone can take action. So just know uh, you know we’re making kind of a strategic decision to really put more focus on functional medicine. Areas and nutrition people can take action on versus other things that are out in the zeitgeist to the world today.
Evan Brand: I think there’s a time and a place for it and there may be a better place for it. But a lot of those places right now are super dicey in terms of service and stuff. I mean, who knows what can happen to you. So yeah, we’re we’re investigating options though.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So anyone listening, we’re putting really our focus on all of the functional medicine; all the things that people can take form an actionable standpoint. And so, just that’s kind of the direction because we feel like we can help more at that area. And um, that’s kind of it on that. Any comments, feel free to let us know below and we’re here to help you all.
Evan Brand: Alright. Take it easy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care, guys! Bye now.
Evan Brand: Bye-bye.
The Root Cause and Solution of Your Stomach Burning and Upper Left Quadrant Pain | Podcast #355
Pain in your upper left (UL) abdomen under your ribs can have a variety of causes. Several vital organs exist in this area, including the spleen, kidney, pancreas, stomach, colon, and lung. One of the most common origins of these issues is due to digestive problems. Heartburn typically happens when acid comes back up from the stomach into the esophagus. It can result in discomfort and a burning sensation in your chest. The pain can feel burning, sharp, or cause a tightening sensation.
Additionally, Gastroesophageal Bowel Disease, commonly called acid reflux, is a condition that occurs when you experience heartburn more than two times each week. Irritable Bowel Syndrome is also a chronic condition that involves a group of intestinal symptoms that usually occur together. The symptoms can differ in severity and duration from person to person. Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) also includes any disorder that can cause inflammation in your gut; the most common of these conditions is Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis. Dr. J and Evan emphasized that having your daily food and environment checked. Possible modification is a basic essential thing to do to avoid gut issues that can compromise overall health.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:32 Stomach Burning and Irritation
8:48 Causes of Stomach Cancer, General Inflammation
19:26 Bacterial Overgrowth causing Stomach Problems
27:41 Mood, Stress, Depression and Anxiety Conditions
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Evan, how are we doing today, my friend?
Evan Brand: I’m doing great. You ready to dive in and talk about heartburn? One of the most common issues one of the trending issues that’s always trending because us as a modern society, we have a lot of issues with hypochlorhydria, which is the technical term for low stomach acid. And so you and I are going to break down some of the reasons some of the root causes some of the triggers, and then some of the solutions. So where do you want to start?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s a great question. So out of the gates here, we’re chatting about what h pylori stomach burning stomach irritation, so there’s a lot of root causes here. I would say out of the gates here, let’s hit H. pylori first.
Evan Brand: Let’s do it. So I had H. pylori. So I’ll tell you from personal experience, and you and I clinically have seen many, many, many cases of H. pylori, let’s start with a conventional approach to it. So first of all, the testing for H pylori is not very good in the conventional world. And there’s an issue with false negatives. Luckily, the DNA stool test that we use is very effective, and we can find it very accurately. And conventional treatment is going to be what’s called triple therapy, or sometimes quadruple therapy, which is three or four antibiotics at the same time to try to kill this helicobacter infection, which if you look at the microscopic photo of it, it kind of looks like a jellyfish, it’s got this creepy little look to it with a creepy little tail. It’s not a pretty little bugger, but man, it causes damage to those parietal cells which secrete stomach acid. And this is something that was very controversial for many times until the researcher actually infected himself with H. pylori and gave himself an ulcer. Right? You and I talked about that story before.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that was Dr. Marshall. I think in the in the mid 80s. He couldn’t get funding for his research. So he’s like, hell, let me be the subject. And so he just infected himself with it. And h pylori, like you mentioned, is that he had a co shaped helix shaped kind of bacteria that kind of burrows into the gut lining. This it’s controversial because, well, I shouldn’t say it’s controversial, we know that it can cause ulcers and stomach inflammation, we know that it can affect acid secretion. Now, a lot of people complain that it’s an increase your acid levels, H. pylori tends to actually decrease acid levels. It creates an enzyme called urease, which takes the metabolite from urea protein metabolism, it turns it into co2, and then also ammonia and ammonia is got a pH of 11. So in the typical urea breath test for H pylori, they give you a bunch of urea. And the whole thought process is if you have h pylori, you’re going to have more of that urease. And that urease is going to convert that urea into ammonia and co2, then thus a positive co2 level is going to be give you the H pylori indicative for a breath test. Now that ammonia has got a pH of 11. So it will start to neutralize and start to move your stomach pH in the more alkaline direction. So kind of one to six is going to be your acidic scale, okay? One is going to be 10 times more acidic than two, two times 210 times more acidic than three, and then you get to seven, which is going to be neutral, that’s your water. And then everything above that base are alkaline, right? And so ammonia is that 11. So you’re taking that pH in your stomach that should be around one and a half to two and a half and you’re moving it more neutral. And so of course, that can affect a whole bunch of problems in your stomach from indigestion, dyspepsia, you’re not breaking down your proteins, you’re not activating your enzymes. And also H. pylori can thin out that gut lining. So part of the reason why people feel like it creates more acidity is because your gut lining gets thinner, your gut lining gets thinner that’s making you more sensitive to acid in your stomach. It’s kind of like if I got a sunburn, right? If I got a sunburn, and I went out the next day in the sun, did the sun get hotter? Well, it feels harder when I’m in the sun with a sunburn, right? Did the sun get hotter? No, it is your skin’s more sensitive. That’s when you’re out in the sun. It feels like it’s 150 degrees out but it’s not. It’s the same thing with your intestine you got a sunburn got that feels more irritated. Thus that acidity the acid that you’re putting in there may cause some irritation just like going out with a sunburn.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s great analogy check your microphone to it sounds like it may switch to your headset, make sure it’s on your USB and I’m going to riff on h pylori for a minute because my personal experience with it was not fun. I lost a lot of weight and I was kind of freaking out honestly like I lost so much weight and I couldn’t stop it and no was no shortage of calories. I was eating plenty of good meats and good fats and I just kept losing weight and I think h pylori is really one of those big stepping stones or maybe the better analogy is the domino effect. And once the age polarize there, as you mentioned, it kind of in activates your enzymatic process. So your pancreatic enzyme function, the release of the stored bile from the gallbladder is going to slow down or be reduced. So this is what I think leads to a lot of the SIBO or the bacterial overgrowth dysbiosis problems that you and I see clinically because when we find h pylori, we go down to page three of the stool tests and then boom, now we see Prevotella and klebsiella and Pseudomonas And all these other bacteria that are thriving so many people have heard of SIBO because it’s trendy, and they’ll come in and they’ll do SIBO protocols. But if they don’t get rid of the H pylori, I’m convinced that’s one of the smoking guns that allows the dysbiosis to take place. So, long story short, if you’re someone listening, if you’ve treated your gut before using antimicrobial herbs, or possibly even antibiotic therapy, and you didn’t get better, or maybe you got better and you relapsed, consider that you’ve missed one of two things mold toxin, which is weakening the immune system or number two h pylori, and it could be coming from your spouse. So if your spouse is not being treated, they could have reinfected you and that’s why you’re on the merry go round and you can’t get off.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So h pylori is one of the first things now, people say, well, a large percent of the population has h pylori, and that that is true. And so the question is, are you immunocompromised with that h pylori is an issue we’re not. There are a lot of people that can survive on four or five hours a night sleep. But once you become stressed, and your adrenals become dysfunctional, and your diets been poor for a while, that four or five hours of sleep may not be enough. So you have to look at the context of the person for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It sounds decent. It could just be the bitrate or something I do believe you have it on your USB now. It just sounds like it’s a little grainy, but it I know on our local and it will be just fine. So it’s, it’s plenty good enough for today.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, excellent. All right. So out of the gates here, just kind of hitting all the right things that we’re chatting about. So we talked about the susceptibility for H. pylori, right. h pylori is going to be one of these things that may be a problem in people that have symptoms. So if you have symptoms, if you have issues, we want to look at that and the gates for sure. I think that’s gonna be a top priority. Anything else you want to highlight regarding other infections? I know SIBO was another one that could potentially affect digestibility and your stomach cebo is going to hit more of your small intestine, but some of that bacteria overgrowth can move its way and migrate to the stomach as well for the gastric area.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well, I think H pylori is probably the biggest smoking gun but like you’re not talked about many times, you can have permission to have multiple things wrong with you. Right? You said that so it’s funny because we’ll see Candida will see bacteria will see H Pylori, which is bacteria will see parasites will see worms. So the cool thing is when we come in with the testing, we’re often using full spectrum herbs. And what I mean by that is we’re going to try to knock out Candida bacterial overgrowth, the H pylori, the parasites, often we can do it in one fell swoop. And it’s really fun to do this in children or young adults, because they tend to get better faster. Like if I see a five to 15 year old kid and we’re working with them. It’s amazing how much faster they get better than like a 70 year old adult, for example. It’s something that I think shows the immune system being weak long term, this can be a bigger problem. So when you hear about stomach cancer, and the ulcers and esophageal problems, and GERD and some of these more scary diagnosis, these, these are likely more long term infections, or it could be the virulence factors, which are something that we test for if you look into the research, H. pylori by itself is not going to cause a ton of problem in the short term. But when it has these virulence factors that essentially strengthens the disease, the way I think about it is like the little whale shark, or actually, whale sharks are huge, but the whale shark with the little fish that kind of swim under its fins, to me, those are the virulence factors, they kind of strengthen the main host there, they’re allowing the H pylori to thrive, they’re allowing that shark to do what he needs to do, they’re helping to maybe eat parasites off of the shark, so they’re kind of helping him hang around. That’s how I think of these virulence factors. It doesn’t change the protocol much, but when we see a ton of inflammation or when we see a ton of gut damage, it’s good to be able to link that back to a stool test.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% here, the virulence factors are going to look at those cytotoxic proteins and it’s a genetic susceptibility of this H. pylori is going to produce more toxins that are going to increase your chance of ulceration increase your chance of stomach cancer, increase your chance of just overall general inflammation. So it’s nice to look at the virulence factors. Now we have a couple we have like Virdi, VagA, iSay, these different virulence factors, these are cytotoxic proteins. And so it’s good to look at that. Now one of the things we’ll also look at in regards to intestinal inflammation to kind of make correlations is we’ll look at calprotectin. Calprotectin is another systemic marker that’s excellent to look at, because it plays a major role with inflammation in the gut as well. And so that’s a really good one. So it’s like a C reactive protein for your gut. CRP is a basically an inflammatory marker for the body. C reactive protein. calprotectin is a protein produced by the white blood cells in the intestine. So when there’s more inflammation, more cytokines, more interleukins, nuclear factor, Kappa beta, all these inflammatory presence, it’s going to give you more of a window that that’s happening now. It doesn’t tell you what the cause of it is. So you need to do detective work and get to the bottom it’s going to be usually one to four or five things. Something of infection, some type of food allergy, some type of immune stressor, whether it’s exposure to mold or heavy metals, okay? It can also be gut permeability where things are getting into the bloodstream and you’re having this, I mean, a logical reaction, those would probably be the big four out of the gates. And then I think, also just if you’re eating a lot of junky inflammatory foods, omega six grains, a lot of pro inflammatory foods, those could also drive it too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I would say there’s probably an autoimmune component to right if you’ve got Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis or something like that, that may elevate that. And I know some of the stuff we talked about, if you try to take our conversation and put it in front of your GI doctor, they may not follow us on some of this stuff. But they will follow us on the calprotectin. I mean, that’s a pretty common marker that it’s going to be tested in conventional gastroenterology. So if you’re trying to like educate your doctor, if they’re willing, enable cool, you know, send them this podcast, hopefully, they’re open to integrating some of these things into their practice. But often, we’ve had many people that have been the GI doctors, 5 10 15 doctors before they come to somebody like us. And unfortunately, they’ve had very poor testing, and they’ve had very poor treatment. That’s why they’re still needing help. And we’re usually at the end of the rope, which you would think puts a ton of pressure on us, but I think you and I are used to and I actually enjoy it. Because in contrast, what we do makes the other people look silly, and our success rate is so good that it’s really it’s a blessing to be able to have some of these tools on hand. And it’s really fun and inspiring to be able to give people hope. And some of these chronic gi issues like heartburn or reflux or GERD, or some of these esophageal problems like what they call like issues with the LES to lower esophageal sphincter that can become very traumatic. And people think that surgery or drug is the answer. But we don’t have to go there in the majority of cases.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And also, when you start to have you know, a lot of dyspepsia, that’s like the bloating, that’s the nausea, the burping the belching, when you start to have that, right, that lack of acidity in the intestines, if you have a lack of acidity, you also have a lack of enzymes more than likely because acidity is an important trigger for enzyme activation, right, because a lot of our enzymes are pH sensitive. So if you don’t have a nice low pH, they’re not going to activate and also that bacterial overgrowth, and you can look at bacterial overgrowth in the stomach usually be a glucose breath test. Now, the conventional breath test that we use for like SIBO is we’ll use a lactulose blood test, or lactulose breath test where you swallow a lactose solution. And then you’re gonna, you’re going to blow into a bag, and you’re going to get a baseline and then you’re going to swallow the lactose solution, and you’re going to blow every 20 minutes. And you can sometimes see an increase in gas that first 20 to 40 minutes, usually being reflective of the stomach area, usually in that first 120 minutes gives you more of the small intestine. And if you do a glucose breath test, that’s going to give you more of a window into what’s happening in the stomach. Now, typically, what we do is i’m doing more of a store test and I’m getting a global look at bacterial overgrowth in the intestinal tract as a whole. Obviously, when we’re testing stool, it’s all moving through the intestine. So you can’t say Oh, that bacteria is in that part of the intestine or that part of the colon or that part of the stomach, you can’t really do that because it’s all moving its way out and getting mixed up, right. So a breath test could be helpful for that. Now, for me, it doesn’t necessarily change a lot what I’m going to do, because if I see him does a lot of klebsiella or citrobacter, or I see some h pylori or I see a lot of organic acids showing him parade or fenzbenzoate right are two three phenolacetate, right different markers indican. And that tells me we got some problem especially indicate indicates one of those bacterial overgrowth markers that also has to do with more increased putrefy protein. So that’s going to be a good indication that there’s some stomach issue going on and dyspepsia issue going on. So if I see that that’s going to gear me in that direction to be focused on addressing the stomach. And when we do herbs, guess what you can’t just target one part of the intestine, when you give these herbs is going to move its way through. Some of these herbs are going to target things more specific to h pylori like mastic gum or bismuth. But obviously, some of those are still going to have general antimicrobial benefits that will move down the entire intestinal tract. And some even have anti parasitic benefits too. So it’s hard to just target things we do know there’s a history of herbs that tend to be more selective to certain things in the intestinal tract.
Evan Brand: Yeah, great, great, great segue to into the herbs. So let’s go into that now. And we’ll be providing some links, we’ll put them in the show notes. We’ll put them in your podcast app. So if you’re listening on your iPhone, you should be able to check if you’re on Justin’s podcast listening, you should see some links for his products. If you’re on mine, you should see mine we have custom formulas that we’ve created in partnership with professional healthcare company so we don’t use any kind of consumer manufacturing. Most supplement companies, they gather products from around the world and they just label them up in a warehouse and ship them out. But they’re not professional. So there’s typically not as much tests. If any testing at all purity potency, those kind of things are not well tracked, we’re very anal about what we do, because we have to get results clinically. And if we don’t, then people don’t get better, and they don’t come to us. So we have a legitimate reason we have to be of the utmost quality. This is stuff that you can’t get through consumer, like Whole Foods, places, or Amazon, these are professional so that that’s, you know, just a little bit about quality. But in terms of the stuff we’re using, as you mentioned, we have different blends. So sometimes we’re going to go with more of like a mastic gum, clove berberine, Wild Indigo blend, these are things that can be both anti inflammatory, anti microbial, anti antifungal, anti parasitic, and then we have some where we’ve got a little bit of gut healing nutrients, like we might throw in a little bit of some dgl into the blends. So now we’re doing two things at once, which is great, we’re killing but we’re also soothing the gut lining, which is probably so irritated, as you mentioned, this thing is thinned out from the infection itself. And then we go into more of the antifungals, too. So we may stack. If we see on the organic acids, you’ve got an anti fungal need, then we’ll throw that into on top of the anti microbial need. And that’s where the magic really happens. There’s a synergistic effect. So rarely Are we going to come in with just oregano oil or just garlic, we’re likely going to use a combination of possibly 510 or even more herbs. And then if you want to comment on that, and then let’s get into the the question of like, where do probiotics fit into this equation? What about digestive enzymes and increasing stomach acid? Where does that fit into this equation? So if you want to hit on the herbs at all, then let’s transition.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so first off, I think people come in with stomach issues saying, Hey, I have an H. pylori issue. And that’s it. So I think, one you have the right to have more than one infection or gut imbalances happening at the same time. So it’s really important don’t get myopically focused on one infection, there’s probably multiple issues. You could have h pylori, you could have some level of bacterial overgrowth that involve other types of infections, like klebsiella, or Pseudomonas or citrobacter. You could have a fungal overgrowth, you could have a parasite infection, as well. So all those things can be present. And also, you’re probably going to have a lot of dyspepsia where you’re having bloating, nausea, indigestion because you’re not breaking down your foods adequately. So you’re going to need to follow my six R’s right and moving the bad foods and again, that could be different for everyone. Some people that could be a paleo template, others it could be an autoimmune, it could be a low fodmap template as well could be a low histamine could be a gassers SCD template. So there’s different templates we’re going to plug in, depending on how sick or how chronic this issue is. And then number two, we’re working on enzymes and acids to really work on digesting things better. And again, acids tend to be anti microbial. Also, bile acids, which are produced by your gallbladder are also anti microbial. So if you have biliary insufficiency, you’re not breaking down your fats, inadequate levels of bile salts will create a a more hospitable environment for bad bugs to grow. So that’s the second are placed enzymes, acids, bile salts, third are repairing the gut lining and supporting the adrenals and the hormones because the adrenals help really provide a good anti inflammatory environment. So if you have imbalances in your cortisol function, you may have a lot of inflammation that’s not being managed by your adrenals. And then of course, on the repair side, you kind of hit it earlier. Some of the repair nutrients that we’re going to use maybe glycine could be L glutamine, it could be zinc. Zinc is very helpful. A lot of studies showing that to be very helpful with gut permeability. I would say DGL licorice, aloe okra, vitamin A. These are really important nutrients that come down the gut lining early I also like ginger and manuka honey. Manuka is used in hospitals in burn units, because it’s very anti inflammatory. So I like a little bit of manuka honey, and my ginger juice tea recipe is wonderful. Any comments on that?
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s delicious. I’m a huge fan, too. And the good news is, depending on what’s going on, you could start soothing the gut a bit early. So as you mentioned, there is kind of an order of operations. But depending on the case, if someone’s in real bad shape, we may come in with some of those soothing nutrients early. Let’s talk about probiotics, too, because this is a confusing one for a lot of people. They just hear online, a podcast, a blog, a website, they’ll hear probiotics, probiotics, I think it’s time to just throw it in. And a lot of people have a bad reaction to that. I think we actually did a whole podcast on this, like when and why probiotics may make you feel worse, but why don’t you give us just some sparknotes on that, when and why and how do we integrate probiotics entities.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So people tend to have stomach issues in general because they have this bacterial overgrowth in the gut, that’s going to affect the esophageal sphincter from closing. They also have a lack of enzymes and acids. So the food’s rotting, it’s putrifying, and transfer defying and creating lots of different gases as a result. Now, people tend to have a lot of bad bacteria in their gut, they tend to be very sensitive to fodmaps fermentable carbohydrates, fructose, oligo, disaccharide, mono and polyols. And again, probiotics tend to have fodmaps in it because probiotics are inherently fermentable right fermentation breeds bacteria, good bacteria growth, they can also breathe bad bacteria growth, right? And so if you’re consuming a lot of probiotics and you have a lot of bad bugs, it can really create a feeding frenzy just like throwing chum in the water. When there’s sharks around. It creates a feeding frenzy. If you go to your local Lake, I go down to Lake Austin and start chumming the water, right? Well, there’s no sharks down there. So you’re not gonna see any sharks come in, right. And so think of probiotics and a lot of fermented bowls. They may be reasonably good and healthy for you. But if you have sharks in that water, and you chum the water, you just create a feeding frenzy.
Evan Brand: Wow. And that you’re saying, with probiotics, you’re not necessarily even talking about prebiotics?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Again, people that have more extreme fodmap and SIBO sensitivity. That’s where probiotics start to become more of an issue. You can still have some SIBO and fodmap sensitivity, and you may not get rise to the level where probiotics are problem, right? So people that are out there and having problems with their kombucha or their sauerkraut, you know, it could also be a histamine issue, because probiotics and fermentable are also high in histamine so they could dovetail and be a couple of different things happening at the same time. Either way, if that’s the case, we still have to work on fodmap restriction, because when we deal with gut bacterial issues, we starve on one side with diet changes. We kill on the other side with specific antimicrobials, and then we crowd out and overpopulate on the last component so we we starve kill and crowd.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s great. And then the saccharomyces comes into the equation too, right? Which is kind of marketed and sold as a probiotic, but technically is a beneficial yeast, I love saccharomyces it’s something-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It crowds out it crowds out so it has beneficial effects of crowding out and also is shown to be very anti cdiff. Anti h pylori, anti blasto and it has immunomodulating benefits increasing IGA levels too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, we love saccharomyces it helps them mycotoxins too. I’ve seen it in a lot of people. And when I talk with Dr. Nathan, who is a guy who treats a lot of mold patients, he talked about saccharomyces being great for specifically, I think it’s actually metabolizing, or changing the structure of the mycotoxins to make them more water soluble, but there may be sort of a crowding out effect with the mole too. So it’s just a great overall thing. So if you’re working on a gut healing protocol, and you haven’t used saccharomyces, that may be something to chat with your practitioner about, it may be something great to add in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, I like it, that makes a lot of sense to me. So when we have that upper left quadrant pain, right, your stomach for the most part is going to be just right in usually this area here. So this is kind of your, this point right here is your HCl point. And this points more of your enzyme point. So like pancreas, small intestine is like really right here, stomach’s usually going to be right in this area here. And then you have the esophagus, going up here, obviously, right, and then this esophageal sphincter can stay open. When we don’t have enough acidity and we have bacterial overgrowth, then you can have a lot of that regurge of that reflux happening when we have inadequate levels of assets. So one thing if you kind of take your hand right here, and you follow the sternum down, right, we’re kind of tucks into the left, if you rub it a little bit, and it’s a little bit sensitive. That points normally sensitive anyway, but if it’s really heightened, is a chance there’s inadequate levels of HCl in the stomach. So that’s a good little kind of pressure point there.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and people listening that can’t see he’s showing this down right there at the sternum, and then you can follow the rib line down to the left, or you could follow it down to the right, and you could check both sides. That’s a really cool thing that you can do in person when you’re working with the practitioners, you can palpate these points. And I remember when I was in one of my schooling lessons, we were with the teacher, and we had a lady who lay down on the table and everybody was coming up and palpating and man, this lady about jumped off the table when we hit that HCl point. So of course, we didn’t have a stool test on her but man, I bet she had some infection going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and it’s good to rub that and then you can kind of rub a couple other spots to see if it really is heightened and then you can also start start treatment. Right, make diet changes, add in support, right? start addressing microbials down the road and see if that changes but again, the biggest thing I really want to highlight for people listening, we live in this antibiotic culture today, right you have an infection, antibiotics, antibiotics, antibiotics, and so what tends to happen as people are in kind of my six are step right the fourth are is moving the bugs right? replace the net or remove the bad foods replace the enzymes and acids and bile salts, repair the gut lining and the hormones remove the infections, repopulate good bacteria, pre probiotics, retest that fourth Rs a movie infections, people go to this first. We live in this like, antibiotic generation people are programmed Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, it’s the biggest mistake you can make. Some people can get away with it. If you’re really healthy and you don’t have an overabundance of inflammation, you can get away with it. Most can’t. And they end up creating a whole bunch of problems. And I tell my patients the first rule of functional medicine right the first rule of Fight Club is don’t make yourself more sick. It’s really important So that’s why that fourth R where that remove that second remove right the first removes the food. Right. The fourth R the second remove is removing the infections, we do it in that order, because we’re trying to calm down the immune system, trying to support our anti inflammatory system so they can deal with inflammation and stress better. We’re working on digesting and breaking down our food or working on motility that allows us set the table so we can come in there and wipe out the bad bucks.
Evan Brand: Yeah, he kind of alluded to it. But just to make it clear, you’re actually improving your immune system by clearing out these infections. And some of these herbs we’re using may have immune supportive benefits too. So that’s just the real joy of what we do is you’re boosting the immune system, you’re letting the gut heal by removing the infections. It’s just amazing. And when you get the spouse involved too, like if you’re seeing a rebound case where husband feels great and then the wife sick and back and forth, you know, they may be passing the H pylori between each other even children who I mean I was sharing water bottles with summer my daughter when she was two, I tested her when she was two she had real high H. pylori. So I’m convinced I may have given it to her, I don’t know. But luckily, we did herbs and she’s in good shape now. And when we retested her the H pylori is gone. So I’m glad that we’re able to get it resolved. But this is a problem that affects kids. So like when someone hears heartburn, they automatically picture old Betty sitting in the wheelchair with the gray hair and she’s got indigestion she’s got her santech in her hand. No, it’s not just her. I mean, this could be two years old, this could be 10 15 20 30 40 years old. So don’t discriminate. This bacteria does not care what you look like and how big or small your or anything. This is a bacteria that affects all people across the population. So if you have these issues, get tested, don’t guess. And if you need help clinically reach out we work on this issue all the time, it’s one of my favorite things to do is work on these gut infections. So if you need help clinically, we work around the world with people we send testing to your home, you do the labs, we get them back to the lab for reporting. And we jump on a call like we’re doing now and we talk about it and we help you make a protocol help you fix your issues once and for all. So if you want to reach out to Justin, you can have his website, JustinHealth.com. If you want to reach out to me, EvanBrand.com and like I mentioned, we’ve got some links, we’ve got some gut healing products and some things that we’re okay with you guessing on, there are a couple of things you could do out of the gate. But ultimately, you need to know what you’re up against. Because as we alluded to, you may not have just h pylori, you may have other infections. So coming in with the glutamine, the zinc carnosine, that lm that kind of stuff that kameel, the ginger, the Manuka, it’s awesome. But that may not be the right order of operations, it may help you by some time, but you got to clear the bugs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and there’s a lot of studies out there looking at H. pylori, for instance, with a lot of mood and stress and depression and anxiety related conditions. And they find that when a lot of the H pylori is addressed, some of these changes occur as well with these issues improve or they talk about antidepressant drugs working better now. Now, why is that happening? Now, I believe the reason why it’s happening is because when you address some of these bacterial overgrowth, you’re absorbing your nutrients better, you’re absorbing your protein, you’re absorbing your fat, and in some cases, probably absorbing their drugs better, so they work better because they’re in their system. Now, I personally believe if you’re not breaking down your proteins and your fats, these are functional building blocks for your neurotransmitters, that you’re going to have some issues in regards to your mood and your cognitive function and potentially energy because a lot of the nutrients and minerals and B vitamins have to get absorbed that way too. So if you have issues with your gut, don’t just think hey, this is just a gut issue. Therefore my only symptoms are dyspepsia bloating, gas, nausea, constipation, depression, diarrhea, you could have fatigue, you could have cognitive issues, you could have mood issues, depression, anxiety, sleep, right. So we have to get kind of outside of the we have to go into the extra intestinal world meaning symptoms outside of just your gut related symptoms. And so it’s possible if you’ve h pylori, you may only have fatigue and mood issues, and sleep and it’s very possible. So you don’t want to just get hung up on the digestive symptoms thinking I’m okay. You could have things outside of the gut area.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and you don’t even recognize it. And the psychiatrist is certainly not going to suggest that our anxiety and depression is an H pylori infection. And that was it for me. I mean, I had panic attacks and anxiety. I mean, I was a wreck when I had gut infections. I will tell you personally, and clinically, I’ve seen the link between mood issues and gut issues. And I had a lady that I had maybe the last two months, I did not give her any anti depressant herbs at all. All we did is work on her gut and within six weeks, she said her depression was 90% better. And she just said it kind of nonchalantly and I’m like you said you were depressed for 20 years during our initial call or you’re not realizing what we’ve done in six weeks just by working on your gut. We’ve as you self reported a 90% reduction in depression which you’ve had for 20 years. That is insane. That should be on the Billboard. That’s Beyond the headline news, but I think there’s just some ignorance about the link between gut and mood issues. So hopefully the psychiatric world and the gastroenterology world can start to get more integrated because right now they’re still very, very separate which is no good for the population.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, here’s an article in the get the Journal of gastroenterology research and practice. It’s called the rule of H. pylori, and regulating hormones and functional dyspepsia. So if you get right to it, it says H. pylori strains have been shown to affect the secretion of several hormones including five five hyphen ht or five HTP. That’s the serotonin melatonin precursor ghrelin which affects mood and appetite, dopamine gastrin, which affects HDL levels. So and then has, it might be the cause of psychological disorders of functional dyspepsia. So, essentially, there’s a strong connection with H. pylori hormones, and a lot of the neurotransmitters and appetite regulating compounds so really important, right, H. pylori, we have to go above and beyond just thinking this is a digestive issue. It can affect mood, energy, sleep, and of course, hormones as well.
Evan Brand: You and I talked about this kind of like we’re just like tying our shoes and cooking some breakfast. Would you have for breakfast today? Oh, I had some pastured eggs and bacon and sausage. What about you? Oh, yeah, handful of some avocado because, like we talked about it, like it’s just so nonchalant. But I mean, if this were to be the headline news, like you and I, this podcast we just ate if this were to be like, the trending thing of the week and 300 million people heard this. I mean, we could put a huge dent in the world, I think we’re doing a great job. We’ve got good numbers, but my God, if this was like the trending interview of the week, I mean, just imagine people would have so much more hope for their mental health, their physical health, their heartburn. This is empowering stuff here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And don’t expect your conventional medical doctor to know about this stuff unless they’ve gone through more integrative kind of nutritional, natural, functional type of continuing education. Most dermatologists don’t even understand that your skin has a direct connection with your diet, right? They still have pamphlets in the dermatologists office saying what you eat has nothing to do with your skin. Most people that have eaten crappy and change their diet to be much more healthy, they can tell you one of the benefits you see is your skin, right? We know inflammation, and oil secretions all have a major effect with inflammation, grains and six junky carbs. While Same thing with our gut, there’s that same level of disconnect all throughout medicine, because each, let’s say medical specialty only knows their thing. And you know, when you’re working 60 to 80 hours a week, you’re not going to have the time to really keep up with the literature and what’s happening. And, you know, if you’re relying on your medical school training, well, typically that information has to be around for 20 or 30 years before it gets into a medical school curriculum. So what you’re getting in medical schools, and they’ll be 20 to 30 years behind probably at least 20 years behind time. So don’t expect your doctor to be in the loop on this thing. So you got to really go outside of the box and, and educate.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, I’ve got a very close family member who has a nanny for a well respected neurologist, and the neurologist home is filled with frickin mold. And no wonder the kid has a lot of issues and no wonder the mom has gut issues and the dad has brain fog and everyone’s exhausted and they don’t sleep good and they have skin issues. It’s like your neurologist, those are mycotoxins. Those are killing your brain. Do you not know it? Nope. She doesn’t know. It’s crazy, man. So hopefully we can continue to do good work like we’re doing and spread this word because man. Yeah, we’re still in the stone age’s and a lot of aspects.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, no, I think we’re on top of it. Well, if you guys enjoy today’s podcast, we really appreciate it, head over to EvanBrand.com or JustinHealth.com. You can subscribe to our email list. You can become a patient we work with patients all over the world happy to help you. Especially in the day and age the last year how things have gotten more virtual. It’s great to have access to good clinicians and doctors, virtually so we can provide that for you. And if you enjoyed today’s podcast, write us a review. Click Below the link you’ll see a link for a review, write us a review. And also share this with friends and family. We appreciate it Sharing is caring. If you enjoyed it today, apply one thing, share it with one person that you love that could help them. Evan anything else?
Evan Brand: No, that’s it. You did a great job and we’ll be in touch next week. So take it easy and have a good one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have a good one y’all. Bye now.
Evan Brand: Bye bye.
The Top 5 Common Digestive Supplement Mistake – HCL, Enzymes and Bile Support | Podcast #338
As a functional medicine practitioner, Dr. J and Evan Brand see many clients who take dietary supplements regularly. But, as simple as it sounds, supplementing can confuse—and people often make mistakes. Do you think you’re taking all the proper nutrients and that you’re taking them the appropriate way? Let’s learn some common errors people make:
Dr. J highly recommends that you avoid having the symptoms cured rather than the source. Don’t just accept your signs and symptoms as usual; consult your doctor and express your concerns. Your doctor may advise you to do diet modifications and have yourself tested to find out the root cause and fix it. Also, watch out for over stressing. Stress can affect your decision-making and as well as your gut health. Another reason can be chewing your food too quickly that makes your digestive system suffer, inadequate water intake, or very few fibers in your diet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this podcast, we cover:
0:36 Common Mistakes in Using Digestive Support
12:03 Healing Gut Lining
15:39 Sex Drive and Libido Effects
17:59 Bile Support
21:48 Higher Fat Diets
25:09 Cooking our Food
31:04 Food Quality
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live, it’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today, we are going to be talking about the top five common mistakes. When using digestive support. Again, we’re in the trenches with patients every week from all over the world. And this is a common issue that we see is people are not using digestive support correctly. And if we don’t break down our food, if we don’t emulsify it, break it down, utilize it absorb it, we’re not going to get the nutrients from that meal. So it’s not a given that we’re eating good food, we have to go through good digestive processes to get those nutrients and to decrease stress in our gut. So I’m really excited to dive in today’s topic on that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, me too. So I mean, I was doing digestive enzymes when I still had gut infections. So I know we put together a list here, and I’m gonna just go straight to the one that was a little lower down the list, which was, I think, possibly one of the big smoking guns for a lot of people is, and I technically should have written in our notes, not testing. My note was not addressing infections and how not addressing your gut infections leads to digestive problems, because if you’re someone who’s taking supplemental acids and enzymes, but you haven’t tested or treated yourself for parasites or worms, or H pylori, bacterial overgrowth, fungal overgrowth, mold colonization, you’re gonna have very limited results with your enzyme, enzymes and acids. So for me, I did that mistake. I just had high quality enzymes. I was taking those but yet I still had diarrhea and other gi issues years ago, because I had parasites, and I hadn’t tested or treated those. So that’s to me, I think the big one because people will go to Whole Foods or wherever, hopefully, they’ll buy from us because it’s professional quality, but they’ll buy enzymes take it and then they still have gi issues. They’re like, well, what the heck, I thought the enzymes were supposed to fix it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I see that we see that all the time. Now the question is, why is that happening? So let’s go over some of the bugs and some of the reasons why that may happen. So first off, h pylori is a super common one h pylori is a bacteria that resides primarily in the stomach, you can also go a little bit into the small intestine, and H. pylori is going to produce an enzyme called urease. And urease is going to take protein from you know, which is the protein metabolite urea and it’s going to convert it into ammonia and co2. And so on a positive H. pylori breath test, we’re gonna see elevations in co2 after you swallow the urea from the breath test, and you’re also going to see a lot of ammonia. Now ammonia has got a pH of 11. And so that’s more on the alkaline side, so your guts only a two or three on the pH. So that can start to alkalize the gut and maybe throw off the digestive capacity because we need that nice that nice low pH helps activate enzymes and acids. Well, it actually activates more of the enzymes that can be pepsin, various proteolytic enzymes, and it sets the table for the pancreas and the gallbladder to produce more enzymes, lipase bile, when we get into the small intestine, so the acidity in the pH sets the deck it sets the domino rally, so digestion works downstream and so, infections like H. pylori can cause problems infections like cebo can also cause problems. SIBO is notorious for making it harder for that esophageal sphincter to close and so that esophageal sphincter can’t close is prone, you have proneness to having that acid rise up and burn your esophagus, right? Those are all potential problems. Also, any stressor or infection, whether it’s H. pylori SIBO, which is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, or it could even be something like a parasite, these infections are going to create sympathetic nervous system stress. And so the more your nervous system is over stressed that sympathetic nervous system that fight or flight tone is being stimulated. What’s going to happen is that fight or flight is going to take digestive enzymes and acids, it’s going to reduce them, it’s gonna start shunting. A lot of the digestive secretions and the blood flow away from the blood away from the stomach and the core and to the hands and the feet to run, fight and flee because our body is trying to move blood and move resources to the areas that are most metabolically high and expenditure. And in a fight or flight circumstance, that’s going to be the extremities fighting, fleeing, running, and our bodies prehistorically driven that way, because you don’t want to be hungry. When you’re running. You don’t want to think about digestion, you want to be focused on getting away or fighting. And that blood has to carry oxygen so these muscles can work. And so that blood moves away from the intestines. And that’s part of the reason why these infections can really throw off your body, they can really increase that sympathetic nervous system and take away from that vagal tone vagas nerve, parasympathetic nervous system response.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I can totally relate. I mean, when I had infections, I was anxious, but I had nausea and I had no appetite. So I would sit down. I remember like yesterday when I was down in Austin, I would sit down at the dinner table. I just cooked an amazing bison steak and maybe I had some veggies with it. I remember looking at the plate and going Ah, I just can’t do it. And some of that was the infections But some of it was the stress from the infections. And some people, they’ll kind of demonize meats and say, Well, I don’t feel good. Like I just can’t do the meat. It’s not the meat in general. That’s the problem. It’s the infections, damaging the parietal cells, reducing the stomach acid, it’s turning that digestive fire back on, that’s really going to help you feel good with those meats. So I, it’s sad because people get scared away from the meat. But in reality, it’s some of these root causes that we’re talking about. And then you hit on this kind of primal response. This is totally normal, by the way, but it’s not normal in our chronic stress lifestyle. So occasionally, if we were stressed, it’d be great. Like you said, turn off the digestive system. So we can run. But the problem is, we’re are we’re always stressed. Now. We’ve never as humans, we’ve never experienced this level of chronic, ongoing stress. I mean, I pull my audience all the time, I’ll do a little polls on my Instagram page and ask people like how you’re feeling. Everybody’s stressed. Everybody’s overworked, everybody’s burned out. So this is an epidemic problem. This is not like a one off thing. This is everywhere. And I think we could transition now if you’re ready. And we could talk about how too much or too little HCl when you’re trying to get this digestive fire back on, there is kind of a sweet spot, and it’s going to depend on the people, it’s going to depend on gut inflammation, maybe diet, infections, and then let me just bring up before I forget, these infections are very contagious. So if you do have h pylori, it’s very probable that your spouse is infected as well. So if you’re someone working on your gut, and you’re not working on your significant others gut, you probably need to whether you’re running testing, or maybe you’re guessing and checking, which is not as wise, but we’ll see a husband or a wife come in to work with us clinically, they have good results and then two to three months later they go backwards. That’s often because the the infection came back due to the significant other and this could even be from children as well or even dogs. Like if you got a dog with h pylori, you’re playing with a slobbery toy, you’re throwing the slobbery toy there Nope, you pick your nose, you bite your nails, whatever boom, you could get, you know, exposed to the vectors that way too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% So with the too much and too little HCl, some people their gut lining is so inflamed, they have atrophic gastritis, meaning that gut lining has gotten really thin. And they may not be able to handle much HCl, even though they need HCl, they may not be able to handle it and that becomes dicey. So it’s all about helping people where they’re at, even though they need something, if they can’t receive it, then we need a backup plan. And so you got to know what people are at. And so some people, their digestive system, or symptoms actually get better. With more HCl, even though their gut has a lot of problems, they have a lot of inflammation. Some people their gut lining integrity can still deal with the HCl when you start adding HCl. And it’s like they start getting better and you’re like, but your guts so inflamed, how were you able to receive it, but then patient a over here couldn’t receive it. So everyone’s a little bit different. And so if we’re going to try HCl, I mean, ideally, don’t try it. If you know there’s any alterations, coughing up blood in the stool. I had one person though cut people who had alterations, though, did it and they’re like, it helped my issues, I felt so much better, and actually my ulcer stopped. Now, that may be the exception. I’m just kind of highlighting if you are that person, tread lightly work with a practitioner. And of course, all reactions are dose dependent. So if you’re going to test it, try the very smallest dose you possibly can maybe even a little bit of lemon juice, or apple cider vinegar and some water, dilute it down and then test it. And if you overdo it, you can always try a little bit of baking soda in water to kind of calm it down if you irritated it. But ideally, don’t do it unless you’re working with someone that’s helping you on the functional medicine side. And if you do it, make sure it’s dose dependent on that side.
Evan Brand: Yeah, good call. So just we’ll give a couple numbers. I think numbers are helpful. So if you’re working in HCl, I know you and I we have some professional manufacturers we work with we make our own line of digestive products. We go pretty conservative, like 200 milligrams of butane per capsule. So we could dose that as low as one cap 200 milligram, we could go up to 3 4 5 6. So you could go I’d say 200 on the low end up to I personally don’t see a need much beyond maybe a couple of grams, 2000 milligrams, and even that, to me is sometimes too high for certain people. I just don’t like to push it. I know you and I’ve talked about that test where people will take a ton of HCl until they get burning and then back down from that dose but I prefer not to poke the beehives I personally don’t do that with people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I will do that within five or six capsules. It depends if someone has a lot of digestive distress. You know, we’re typically not going to go that high, but usually within five or six capsules, that tends to be okay. And Dr. Jonathan Wright’s book, why you do stomach acid, he talks about, you know, being able to go up to four to five grams of HCl. And again, I typically wouldn’t do that if someone’s having any alterations or any incredible gastritis issues. Usually we’re going to test at a much smaller level than that and even with them, we’re still starting at maybe one capsule and we’re gently going up and up. For taking the digestive support in the middle of the meal, because if your guts Ron and flame just enough of that acid leaning on that gut lining directly isn’t to be a problem, at least if there’s some food down, then think of the Oreo cookie, right, you get the cream that you get the the frosting in the middle of the HCl is in the middle of all the food, and therefore the body tends to mix it up. And then when it starts moving throughout the intestinal tract with the throat, the stomach, it’s not going to be as intense at the tissue area. And so that tends to be very helpful. And I’ll typically, you know, try it within four or five capsules, see if we have an improvement. Some people do, I hear doctors doing that up to 1020 capsules. And that’s I think you’re just messing with trouble, you mess up a fire there because your body has to use bicarbonate and from the pancreas, to start to neutralize the acid from the stomach. So like that Domino rally of digestion, you have all this kind mixed up in your stomach, that kind is all the food with the acids and the enzymes that has to get released from the stomach down into the small intestine. And so it’s nice low pH once that goes into the small intestine, right the dwad, then we start making a whole bunch of bicarbonate to neutralize that. Now bile acid will also be produced bile acids still an acid it’s still a pH of around five or so. So it’s still on the acidic side. People have written in o bile acids. Well, it’s a it’s a p it’s a pH neutral. Well, you know, we’re talking bile acids. bile is made up of bile acids, cholesterol, a lot of different substances. So the bile acids are in their very nature by their name on the acidic side. So typically, your body’s trying to take that pH and bring it up to a neutral pH and the more you stress it with tons and tons of HCl, there’s a greater chance that your bicarbonate system may not be able to handle it from your pancreas. And you could develop a peptic ulcer. So we got to be careful with that. Try to use HCl within a reasonable range. And if you’re going to test it, you know, just be careful with it. Just be careful. Make sure you’re taking a look at your gut and making sure you’re you’re you’re knowing what your calprotectin levels are and you’re in you’re taking it the right way.
Evan Brand: That is like the pinnacle of edutainment right there that was so entertaining to listen to. I’m picturing all this going on in the system, I’m learning at the same time. This is why I love what we do. This is so fun. All right, let’s go to let’s go to number two here on our list, which is supporting or healing the gut lining and how that’s very important to do possibly even before you get to the digestive support. So you and I are seeing tons of people that usually have been to previous practitioners or doctors or naturopaths or whoever before us. And so maybe they have healed their gut somewhat already. Or maybe they’ve been wrecked because other practitioners did too much. Or they did too hardcore things. I had one lady who she got put on really high biofilm busting support right in the beginning, she got put on the interface plus from Claire labs, which we can and do you sometimes but man it wrecked her gut, her stomach was so wrong. We had to do almost six weeks of gut healing support before we could even bring it any other support. And and that’s kind of a reverse order thing. Because you and I talked about this idea of healing the gut after you treat the infections, but man, in her case, we couldn’t do that. So I’ve seen firsthand what can happen if you do too much biofilm support, you’re aggravating an aggravated system, it’s just not good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And that’s why if we’re having someone with an inflamed gut, one of the first things we’re going to be doing is trying to really dial in digestive nutrients to heal the gut lining. So we may be adding in things like dgl, licorice, aloe, slippery elm, sometimes we’re going to do a lot of zinc or zinc carnosine. A lot of studies on zinc, helping to decrease gut permeability, which is really important, decreasing gut inflammation, there’s studies on zinc showing the decreased calprotectin in the intestinal tract. So that’s wonderful, of course, l glutamine. If you’re very histamine sensitive or very inflamed, sometimes I’ll clue to me can go downstream to glutamic acid and glutamate, and you may have negative symptoms there. Again, typically, I don’t see that and so we don’t see that. I say 95% of the time, there’s no problem with that. But we want to be able to use other nutrients to calm down the gut, vitamin u, which is vitamin oltre. You see that in like a lot of okra, things like that. cabbage juice, I would say Allah we already mentioned. And then of course, there’s just good old fashioned bone broth, and collagen peptides which are very, very high in glycine. And glycine is very important building block for the entire sites that make up the gut lining the entire sites or little cells that that make up the tight junctions and the gut lining in the intestinal tract. And so they love, love, love glycine, and of course, that the same cells that are helping to build the intestinal tract, they also help with detoxification. glycine is a very important compound and toxification. So if you have a lot of gut inflammation, your body’s going to be using a lot of that glycine for healing, inflamed tissue and maybe not running the toxification. So that’s part of the reason why you can have detoxification problems, because your guts chronically inflamed, it’s sucking a lot of the resources Is that it may be using for detox.
Evan Brand: Wow. Yeah, that’s amazing. So there’s a lot of talk Stephanie sent off. And I know some others have talked about using glycine to help glyphosate detox. Yep. So that’s pretty interesting mechanism there, you’re saying that the system can’t focus on the detox. If it’s so focused on the gut damage.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The body is always tending to deal with what the more acute matters. And if your guts Ron inflamed, it’s probably going to prioritize that over detoxification. And again, we don’t have like a test that to say that, we just kind of have common sense functional medicine, healing philosophy, the body’s always prioritizing stuff. And whatever the top stress is, the more apparent stresses, that’s where your body’s typically allocating resources.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I don’t want to get too in the weeds on this, but I’ll just bring up an example of that, for example, sex drive and libido. When we see people that are chronically stressed and depleted, usually sex drive is going to go down or become non existent. I asked that question on my intake form is your libido adequate, and all the sick people know their libido is not adequate. And my interpretation of that is libido is really, a it’s a luxury to be able to do that. You’ve got to have some optimal things that happen. Obviously, there’s other mechanisms at play, but just at a simple basic level. You know, sex is a luxury when you’re running from a bear, you’re not going to, you know, be aroused if you’re running from a bear. And that bear could be your boss, or your spouse or your kids if they’re driving you crazy. And libido is like that, whatever. So that makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and if you just look at how the the nervous system allocates sexual energy, so typically foreplay, or just, you know, that intimacy that you’re going to have before ejaculation, or before an orgasm, that’s all parasympathetic. And so you need parasympathetic nervous system stimulation for, you know, the foreplay aspect of intimacy. And if the parasympathetic isn’t there, that’s where you see premature ejaculation, right? Because ejaculation or orgasm is sympathetic. And foreplay is parasympathetic. And so if you don’t have parasympathetic stimulation happening, because you’re so stressed or so inflamed, it, you know, that’s where premature ejaculation or just not even being able to rise to the occasion, if you catch my drift, because that parasympathetic nervous system response is so squashed.
Evan Brand: Yeah, this is a huge problem. I mean, I’ve seen 20 year old guys that are jumping on Coke, the little blue pill, and you’ve got all these websites now that are promoting like off the market Viagra. It’s like, what the heck, like we have like teenagers and 20 year olds now like carrying around that that you know, used to be like, when you know, high school is kind of the cool joke thing to have. But you got a condom in your wallet. Now, it’s like you have a condom and you have Viagra as a teenager?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, that’s why you typically need a couple hours of stress free conversation and, and connection before before that kind of nervous system stimulation can happen. You can’t just go it’s harder to go into a stressful day, switch the switch. And then there you go. It’s just tough. That’s because of the nervous system. So we just got, we got to know that.
Evan Brand: Give us your comments. Do you want a functional medicine, optimization of libido podcast? If so, let us know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll chat about that’s great. All right, I would say next thing we can kind of we talked about the gut lining support, let’s talk about bile support. So bile is really important for fat digestion. A lot of women are going to be affected by bile issues, because it’s very common women, when they’re 40s, they tend to get their gallbladder removed. It’s a common procedure, you have any upper right quadrant pain issues, boom, they’re taking out your gallbladder right away. And your gallbladder is part of what concentrates bile, your liver will make it and then it stores it in the gallbladder. And then it gets released. It very specific times via coli cystic keinen cck stimulation, and cck is going to be stimulated when you have a whole bunch of fat and protein going getting released from your stomach into the small intestine so that we get to release it. It happens at a very specific time. And it’s concentrated 15 to 20 times more than just what your liver would drip it in. Because when you don’t have a gallbladder just chatter dripping. And when it drips, you can you can have bile acid diarrhea. And so that’s where you have to use bile acid sequestering agents to kind of calm it down. And we got to put our bile in at the right time. And so we may have to take supplemental bile definitely for life that we don’t have a gallbladder. If we have biliary insufficiency, we’re going to have to be taken bio as well maybe extra lipase, which is a fat enzyme from the pancreas. But if we don’t break down that fat, you know, we’re gonna see our stool start to flow, we’re going to start to see, you know, St Mark’s skin marks on the toilet, see, because the fat is, is streaking, it’s not well absorbed. And then you’re also going to see a lot more excessive wipes when you go to the bathroom when you clean yourself because it’s just the fat is streaky, right, it’s it makes a big mess. And so we got to break down that fat adequately and then we may have to add extra bile into digestive support may have to add extra label lytic enzymes as well. Also, if you’re a female or even a male, high levels of estrogen is going to make your bile flow more stagnant. So if your bile flow is more stagnant, you’re not going to have good biliary output. And I would say last but not least, if if you’re one of those people that got thrown into a low fat diet Well, when you go low fat your gallbladder is not emptying because it’s the trigger for gallbladder emptying is coli cystic keinen from fat consumption. If your gallbladder is an empty, empty, what happens all that bile, it can start to form bile crystals. And those crystals are sharp. And when you finally do eat a little bit of fat, it’s like giving a hug to a porcupine. All right, it’s gonna be quite painful. And so imagine your gallbladder contracting on it’s like giving that porcupine a big hug and you’re going to inflame that gallbladder. And so chronic low fat diets with a punctuated higher fat meal, and also coming in there with estrogen dominance, a lot of detoxification issues, not clear handling estrogen, well, maybe having a lot of estrogen in your meats in your pesticides in your plastics goes for guys, too, that could definitely screw up your gallbladder and cause biliary and fissures not enough bile flow to that gallbladder.
Evan Brand: Wow. Okay, so let me just clarify, because this is interesting stuff here, because people online, including us were really big proponents of good quality, pastured animal products, and high quality fats were a big proponent of that. But you’re saying that when a person comes in, let’s say they came from the brainwashing of the even 2000s, I mean, part of me want to say 1980s 90s, and 2000s. But it’s still, there’s still the low fat dogma still there, that’s still like one of the labels on a product low in fat that’s still marketed today. So this is still a trend. You’re seeing someone coming from that with gallbladder issues with infections with low stomach acid, then they try to go keto, carnivore, meat based paleo, whatever, they end up with problems. If they have like a gallbladder issue or a gallbladder attack, the doctor is going to blame maybe the fats and just cut the gallbladder out. But you’re saying there’s kind of a few steps, if you will, that have to be a prerequisite to handle a higher fat diet properly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, why don’t we just have the propaganda of the 80s and 90s. And just the fact that calories in calories out, right, oh, you’re worried about how many calories you consume? Well, we know one gram of fat got nine calories in it, compared to four in the protein and four on the carbs. So of course, fat gets to be looked at more deeply on that side, because of the caloric intake. And then also, if you’re, you know, a lot of the studies on fat causing heart disease, which we know are all nonsense, we know that the meta analyses in the last 10 years show there’s no correlation with that, with fat and animal cholesterol, a lot of the studies in the 60s and 70s, they did not differentiate saturated fat with trans fats. And so they had a whole bunch of trans fats mixed in with a lot of these experiments. And you didn’t really get good data because they had the trans fats, which we know hydrogenated vegetable oils are terrible and bad for our health, we know that. So you got to pull out those confounding variables to really get good data. And so we know that in the last 10 15 years, that is not the case. And that cholesterol and fat is going to be fine. It’s really going to be the sugar of the trans fats, and maybe an argument for a lot of the refined processed vegetable oils, these vegetable oils during the processing of them, they get damaged. Because your polyunsaturated fats, omega six, they get damaged, and they create a lot of oxidative stress, and they get stored in your cell membranes for a long time.
Evan Brand: Yeah, these are these are super bad oils, and they’re everywhere. I mean, even at Whole Foods. If you go and look at organic potato chips, you’re still sometimes gonna see cottonseed oil, you’re gonna see sunflower oil, you’re gonna see canola oil. I mean, I get frustrated because Whole Foods kind of markets themselves as healthy. But if you go to like their I don’t know, if you call the buffet, but their hotbar, if you will, every single food item they have, there’s canola oil and everything.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s just cheap. And then there’s also a lot of stuff on the olive oil being fake, right? So you got to look at that too. But that’s why at least half your fat should be high quality animal saturated fats, because one, those fats are just really stable, they’re going to be really temperature stable. And if you’re getting organic, decent fat, there’s no processing of that that’s going to damage the fat like you may have with a vegetable oil. But ideally, try to get cold pressed, try to get organic, try to get reputable brands that you know, aren’t going to be a blend of other canola oil mixed in which is terrible.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, let’s hit another point, which is important is the fact that the bile has some antimicrobial properties and all these estrogen dominance issues you’re hitting on you’re hitting on the low fat you’re hitting on maybe the the no gallbladder. Yeah, it makes sense why we see so many women, for example, that have had their gallbladders removed, they have massive, massive gut infections.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, correct. And so bile is antimicrobial. And so it’s gonna make it harder for bugs to grow in the small intestinal tract. And so just having good biliary output, it’s going to act like anti microbials and make it harder for these bugs and dysbiosis to grow. So having good fats in there, going to stimulate good bile stimulation and flow in that bile flow is going to help you emulsify and break down the fat and it’s also going to make the environment harder for bugs to grow. So it’s definitely a win win on both sides of the front there.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you and I don’t have any published studies to say hey, we had 278 patients and, you know, 275 had their gallbladders removed and all 275 had SIBO we don’t have it like published like that. But I know that you would agree clinically what we’ve seen, you know, combined over the last 10 plus years is that We see tons of SIBO SIFO issues and a lot of those people have gallbladder issues or they don’t have a gall bladder period. So it’s definitely, definitely correlated.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100%. And it’s good to look at that. No, I would say next thing we can kind of switch into is cooking our foods. I mean, sometimes fermentable carbohydrates, sometimes just the fiber in those foods, the rawness of the foods, the anti nutrients, lectins salicylates, females, can really be irritating to someone’s got if it’s already wrong. So sometimes just one cooking those foods can be wonderful. Sometimes even switching to a carnivore diet, as long as we can handle the fats and proteins can be great, because you’re decreasing all those anti nutrients, sometimes just really making sure everything’s really cooked and steamed and sauteed. Or maybe using an instapot, or some kind of a method really helped break it down. And then of course, low hanging fruit, like just chewing your food up really well to like almost like an oatmeal like liquid consistency, making sure you’re not overly hydrating with your meal, maybe just a couple ounces of water to get some pills down. But that’s it you’re hydrating, 1015 minutes before two hours after because water’s got a pH of seven, right? And your stomach’s a pH of two, two and a half and you add a whole bunch of seven, there’s a bunch of two and a half, you start raising the pH plus you’re diluting all your enzymes and ask for the potencies drops. So all those things matter.
Evan Brand: Yeah, here’s an interesting thing. I looked at some of the videos. And I interviewed him on my podcast too super cool guy, Paul Saladino, who wrote a carnivore book and he talks a lot about carnivore diets. He visited the Hodza tribe. And something interesting is he thinks that we’re really like over hydrating, like, if you watch these people, these tribal people, obviously they don’t have water bottles, and they don’t have really access to water the way we do. But he would notice they would eat an entire meal with no liquid. And then here we are in America, you go to the restaurant, and they’re like, what do you like to drink, sir. And if you’re like water, they bring you a frickin huge cup. I mean, it’s probably 1620 ounces of ice water. It’s cold, which I don’t know, people may debate me on this. I don’t know if ice water is necessarily good around meals either. I just feel like no, from an energetic-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Your stomach longer sits in your stomach longer because your stomach’s not going to release your internal body temperature is around 99 98 degrees, and you drink a whole bunch of 50 degree water, your body’s gonna hold that water in the stomach until it gets up to body temperature and then release it. I mean, very simple. Just drink a whole bunch of cold water and you’ll feel it sloshing around drink room temperature water and you’ll feel it move through your body way faster. When you move around. 510 minutes later, you won’t feel the sloshing.
Evan Brand: Ah, you know, see just intuitively I just keep I just drink room temperature water now they’re on a really hot day. Yeah, like some ice water. But just like normally, during the office hours, you know, I’m just drinking room temperature water and I feel so much better with it. But yeah, so sorry, I got on a little tangent. But I would-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not a big deal. It’s not a big deal. If you do that and drink wine, drink cold water, just be careful of drinking really cold water right before a meal. Because it will take longer to move through. So at least if you’re going to do cold water, make sure it’s not 10 minutes before meal.
Evan Brand: Okay, Okay, understood. But anyway, the idea was like he saw these tribal people and how they’re how they’re eating and drinking. And, you know, they didn’t really do meal combining, there’s a lot of like, when you go to a restaurant, there’s this feeling that you got to have your meat and then your vegetable and then your potato. And obviously this is different. I’m not saying we all need to live like tribal people. But what I’m saying is I find it very interesting that their life is more what our DNA expects, meaning if they’re walking along and they stop upon a bush, they might just gorge on these berries. Or if they stop and find this bail Bob tree with a particular type of honey in it, they’ll cut open the tree, find the beehive they’ll eat just a meal of honey and then they get the kill and they eat just the meat so I personally have experimented with that like just meat, just berries just starch and just try to play around with it as opposed to doing the steak with the broccoli with the sweet potato and I personally do feel better on just those single items so I’ve I’ve definitely been leaning more that direction I feel significantly better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think you know a couple of things one I think most of their meals are probably going to have more protein in it because if you kill an animal that that meat last way longer and if you look at a lot of the the fruit they were to have back then I’ve looked at a lot of these studies that they’re a lot more tart a lot more bitter they aren’t like overly sweet like we’ve due to hybridization and genetic selection we’ve kind of chose the sweetest berries the sweetest this so a lot of the fruits way sweeter than what you would have typically found in nature on average and things like honey would have been a rarity it wouldn’t have been something that you’re you’re have access to every single day and so we have access to it every day so you know if it’s something that’s every now and then it’s probably not a big deal but if they were doing honey like that every single day and they weren’t as active right because they have to be really active to hunt and kill and do all their stuff there may be metabolic issues.
Evan Brand: Oh yeah, I think I read he was just trying to keep up with the tribe. I want to say they were doing something like 10 miles a day walking I mean there’s an insane amount of steps.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, anytime one your stress is decent right because you know most of their life was just focused on the next meal right killing having their next meal obviously making sure shelter stable but once shelter is good Then really most of your focus is on food as a food and safety for the tribe. That’s it. You know, you’re not having to go pay a big mortgage down or worried about your kids private school, right? Yeah, that’s a different priorities right?
Evan Brand: Have you seen the organic strawberries lately? My god, they’re freaking huge. They’re like small apples, man.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I had a couple over the weekend. They were like almost the size of my hand. I was like, Holy smokes!
Evan Brand: Because I kind of thought that organic was and I guess I thought wrong. This is me being dumb, I guess. But I thought that organic had a little bit of separation from the conventional practices meaning the hybridization process, but my god, you look at some of these apples now to their like softballs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, I mean, just farmers naturally over hundreds of years, they’re going to just start selecting seeds and, and crops that are going to be more tasty, just just natural selection of what sells. And so that tends to shift over time, where if things are just growing in Mother Nature, you know, we don’t quite have that ability to select it as much.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but I go, you know, I’ll be out in the woods and I’ll find some wild strawberries. They’re tiny. They’re like the size of your pinky fingernail.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Real. Yeah. Yeah, no, totally. So yeah, but most important thing is the food quality. And, of course, if you have insulin resistance in your inflamed, you know, leaning to less sugar is always better. Just because your body doesn’t have you know, if you’re the hunza, right, and you’re walking 10 miles a day hiking and doing all these things, you have the ability to burn all that stuff up. No problem. It’s not a problem, but you have don’t have the ability to burn it up, what’s your body going to do with it, then it gets stored in the liver, and it’s stored in the muscles, and then when that’s tapped, it’s gonna get converted to fat. And you’ll get insulin resistance. We got probably that’s I’ve got to be careful that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and the main last point, there was just adjusting how your food is cooked based on what’s going on with your gut. So if you’ve got infections, like for me, I’ve rarely ever do leafy green salads. Raw just doesn’t agree with my gut. And so I don’t do it. And I could, I’m sure I could work it in, but to me, I feel I feel good. My gut feels good. I feel good. So I’m okay with cooked veggies. And those work for me. So.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, worst case, just take your veggies laid out in the frying pan and put a really good saturated fat down and some sea salt, you know, and, and boil it, you know, for 20 minutes at 400 nice roasted vegetables are pretty good. As long as you’re using the good healthy fat on It’s wonderful.
Evan Brand: Yeah, would you recommend something like ghee, because if you go too hot with butter, you might get some smoke, right? So would you say ghee or what do you like?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You could do ghee or any Talos you could do a little bit of avocado oil. Avocado oil is pretty heat stable use got to make sure you’re looking at what the heat is. You don’t overdo based on the smoke point. Okay, that’d be cool. Anything else you want to hit on? I just think people that are listening here. If you’re struggling and you’re having a hard time, you know, feel free to reach out to someone like Evan and I would be happy to help you out. And you can see Evan at EvanBrand.com and feel free you can schedule with him worldwide, as well as myself, Dr. J at JustInHealth.com. Happy to help you guys out. also put your comments down below, let us know your thoughts on the topic. Let us know what you’ve done. What’s helped you in the past. You know, we learn a lot through our patients. Because you know, when you only have yourself that’s that’s only one person. But when you have 1000s of people that you can learn from you just see what works. You don’t need a scientific study to tell you because you see it, it’s real. And then we apply it to help our patients. And we really appreciate y’all sharing your stories here as well. And reach out links below for everything guys, and then make sure you share with family and friends that they could benefit. Please put it in their inbox or share it on social media. We really appreciate it.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, well, awesome job. And yeah, once again, JustinHealth.com. Or EvanBrand.com, please reach out we’d love to help you. And you know, we didn’t talk about it too much today, because it’s more focused on other things. But testing is part of this protocol. So figuring out exactly what we’re doing, how we’re doing it, when we’re doing it, why we’re doing it, it is based on testing, we’re not just using you as a guinea pig, we are truly looking at calprotectin and stouter crit and Alaska as there’s, there’s so many biomarkers that we didn’t even discuss that we’re working into that. So I just want you to know that we’re not coming in blind here. We have data that we’re using, which helps us to guide these protocols. And that’s really where the magic happens is once you get to the get the data. So test, don’t guess, reach out if you need help. And we’ll be in touch next week.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, just to highlight that. On the digestive side, we’re looking at markers likes the adequate, which if that’s high, that’s a lot of mal digested fat. If we have a lot of calprotectin or lactoferrin, or increased immune response like IGA that means there’s stuff going on in the gut. And so it’s good to know that ahead of time so we can really quantify what’s happening, or maybe even gut permeability like Sanyo, and that can all be very helpful. So I’m glad you touched upon that. We’ll put links below guys for everything that you guys need to take next steps and you guys have a phenomenal week.
The Top Binders to Help Detox From Mycotoxins and Mold | Podcast #337
Different binders have affinities for various toxins based on the net charge and other molecular bonds. One commonly used binder is Chlorella – a living organism that has evolved to bind only to toxic metals, not essential minerals. Because of this, it can be used long-term with no risk of nutritional deficiency over time; Charcoal – a broad-spectrum binder that will bind a little bit of everything. It means it will bind toxins, as well as vitamins and minerals. So it is suitable for acute situations, not long-term; Humic and Fulvic Acids are made of decomposed plant matter, essentially dirt. They have been shown to detox glyphosate.
The binder that suits someone can also differ significantly based on the specific load of toxin. What works well for someone can also change during different phases of treatment, especially when the root cause is identified and fixed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:29 How to Eliminate Molds in Our Body
17:06 SIBO, Candida on Mycotoxins
22:55 Better Bowels
25:58 Different Binders
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand really excited about today’s topic. We’ve been talking about binders a little bit here recently. And we’re going to be going into the top binders to help and improve mold toxicity and help kind of help your body get rid of mold in a safe, meaningful way. Evan, how you doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, doing well, always excited to dive in with you here. Let’s just drop the bomb right out of the gate here. Mold is epidemic. I mean, you saw several podcasts you and I’ve done together on mold, I got exposed my levels of ochratoxin were off the chart, I had a ton of symptoms. We took the family and lived in a hotel temporarily to escape until we could find a new plan, I had to get rid of a lot of clothes that were contaminated. I even tried doing some special laundry detergent we use and couldn’t save some of my clothes. So I know firsthand that this can be a huge problem for people. And it can be frightening because conventional doctors, which we hear this all the time during consultation, they just don’t really have a clue about this. And if you go to the emergency room with dizziness and shortness of breath and blood pressure issues and hives and skin reactions and food sensitivities and all these other what made to some people be crazy symptoms, you’re just going to get like an anti anxiety medication and you get sent home. And that’s where people start to question their sanity. So I hope that we can provide some sanity today and then also provide some actions, you know, action strategies of how to get this crap out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So the first off is how do we eliminate mold from our body anyway, so we have a couple of reasonable means that detoxification, the big ones that we’re pushing are going to be the bile slash tool, because your liver and your gallbladder make bile, your gallbladder stores that and concentrates it and then we excrete that one to help break down fat, then some of that is going to be captured in the store and eliminated the the store. Some is going to be out the urine, right and a lot of Mold Testing, if we’re testing someone, we’re going to be testing via mold in their urine. So we’re actually using urine as a way to assess mold excretion and mold levels. So the guts, stool and urine slash kidneys are going to be the biggest ways. We have some other ancillary ways we may be pushing and provoking such as using sauna or infrared therapy, which we’re using the skin and the sweat to kind of excrete some of these things. Obviously, if you’re a pregnant Mom, you may even be using breast milk. That’s why it’s important to to really get yourself healthy. So we’re limiting the baby’s exposure to mold via breast milk. So those are kind of some of the big ways and means the body is going to eliminate mold. Now, first thing out of the gate, I’m not a huge fan of jumping on and going after mold right away. Unless we have some type of acute exposure, where we know we’re in an environment where mold is present where we can visually see it. We have very abnormal high amounts of mold via testing. We know there was a major flood or some area and we weren’t able to remediate it. So typically, I don’t love to go after it right away partly because healthy gut function is going to be one of the major ways that we detoxify from mold. So we know just based on the literature, that gallbladder function, good bowel motility, and good stool motility helps us eliminate a lot of mold. We know that because we’re contracting our gallbladder, we’re eliminating a lot of mold via bile synthesis and injection and then having healthy BM so just by having your gut on track, we’re going to be eliminating lots of mold. And if we look at the different types of mold that we can kill it and pull out of our body, probiotics have effects on detoxifying nearly all mold toxins. Probiotics, according to literature, help us detoxify aflatoxin, gliotoxin stir riego matto system as your Alan own and the Atan B and citrinin. These are all different mold toxins, mycotoxins most of them are going to be eliminated with probiotics. Now what does that mean? That means out of the gate if you have healthy The best way to detoxify mold is having good healthy gut function and good healthy bacterial balance balance. So if we have SIBO bacterial overgrowth, gut infections that are throwing off healthy bacteria balance in our gut, that’s going to be one of the major ways that we can kill ate mold is having good healthy bacteria balance and also having good healthy biliary function and good healthy motility. So if we don’t have enzyme acid, bile salt production, are probably going to be slower motility. If we don’t have good bacteria balance with healthy good levels of bacteria too bad we’re probably not going to be able to kill it more efficiently as well. So probiotics are like I think the home run key later that most people don’t think of right we think of like clays and charcoal and and medications like coolest army but we forget about the probiotics and how good healthy gut function plays such a big role.
Evan Brand: Yeah, this is crazy because you know when I first got exposed You and I were Actively researching and looking into the literature on this and it kind of felt a little overwhelming because it’s like, well, crap. Now we got to work all these other things into the protocol. But now with the more and more research coming out on these specific strains, like you mentioned probiotics, but we’ll also talk about something that we sell in market as a probiotic, but technically is a beneficial yeast saccharomyces. This has been shown to bind to aflatoxin, also okra toxin and zero genome, and glio toxin. So this is amazing because you and I’ve been using saccharomyces for years. And now all of a sudden, here we are, we didn’t even really know this. We’ve been detoxing mold the whole time as a side effect of doing these Gup protocols with people. It’s really beautiful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And this is why I tell people, if you go after the foundational systems in functional medicine, and not necessarily worry about all the symptoms downstream, you’re going to hit and help so many other areas of the body. And it’s kind of like bowling, right? If you just focus on hitting that first pin square, you’re going to knock down a lot of other pins in the second row, right? Same kind of thing with functional medicine. If you hit the foundational pins, right, good digestion, good solid anti inflammatory diet, good motility, good anti inflammatory support, reasonably healthy, balanced adrenal, thyroid, female or male hormones that plays such a major role on immune function. detoxification, elimination plays such a huge role, and you can miss the crazy nuanced mole protocol, and still help people get better. Now, there’s people that are going to still need additional mold support outside of this right. And of course, the more genetically prone You are right, there are certain people that have this kind of Ginny’s certain genetic markers that make them more mold sensitive, okay. And then, of course, the levels of mold being in a mold environment longer living in that basement that’s moldy without the dehumidifier and the sub pump, living in that damaged home, living in that flood damaged environment, these things, the leaky roof, chronically, it can definitely accumulate in your system. And even someone that’s not that genetically sensitive. If those mold levels increase above and beyond for so long, you may eventually become sensitive. So we have to look at the environment and look at the levels and make sure we’re trying to fix that environment first, but it’s over the top, we got to really get that environment fixed. And that’s why it’s nice to be able to do Mold Testing that looks at your home first. And so we have some testing that we use various labs that use play testing, that can be very helpful, we’re going to put links down below for the specific test that we use. So if you guys want to do some deeper testing, feel free, click the link down below. Any comments on that?
Evan Brand: Yeah, I just wanted to hit back on the probiotics, one of the mechanisms because I think this is pretty cool. And once again, this is just makes me feel better about the gut work we’ve been doing with people so many times, because like I said, we’ve been fixing things with mold, not even truly knowing it. So one of the mechanisms of some of these beneficial bacteria is that it actually up regulates glutathione s transferase. So here we are coming in now we’ll supplement glutathione, but you’re actually increasing Bluetooth ion just by taking some of these beneficial strain. So that is just absolutely amazing. And it’s funny because we focus so much on the binders in the conversation of detox, you hear so much talk about charcoal and sauna and all these more intense therapies. But in reality, that’s kind of the icing on the cake. It sounds like now for me, I still do take binders, I still do charcoals and clays and all of that. And I think it’s totally beneficial. And if I take a hit if I go to a moldy building and take a hit the binders do help me reset. But I’m going to start working in just some high dose probiotics and see and I’ll report back and see what if I take a big hit and instead of a binder, or maybe I do both, maybe I hit binder and probiotic and see if I get greater relief. That’s gonna be an interesting experiment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Now, if you’re out there, and you’re like man, probiotics make me feel worse. Or if you have kind of like headaches or mood issues or more cognitive issues, or you just have more digestive issues, there’s a good chance that you have cebo dysbiosis, bacterial overgrowth, maybe other types of gut issues. And those are going to have to be looked at because if you have those types of imbalances, odds are, there’s a skew in the ratio of bad bacteria to good bacteria in the gut. And if we know there’s more bad and less good that’s naturally present, then it’s going to be harder to have good healthy mold detoxification because we know how important those good beneficial bacteria are. So keep that in the back of your head. If you are someone that’s like man, Dr. J never really talked about how all these mold toxins are super, you know, they get killed out by probiotics. You know, bifidobacteria lactobacillus saccharomyces, I can’t take them What do I do? Well, you got to look deeper. You got to reach out to a good functional medicine practitioner and really work on getting your gut dialed in. Work on the six R’s before we touch probiotics, right? Remove the bad foods replace the enzymes acid bile support, support the repairing of the gut lining and the hormones then work on removing the despotic bacteria and the infections. The fifth are is to repopulate re inoculate good bacteria, pre and probiotics. That comes fifth. Not first. Most people want to put that in first. So we guess you got to do things in the right order, then of course, the sixth art is to retest.
Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s talk about pooping too, because you’re mentioning all these steps with the gut. If people are coming straight into detox you mentioned you’d like to come at it right away. Part of the reason is because if people are constipated, you can’t really start binding these toxins binding sounds really attractive. It sounds like Oh, you’ve grabbed on to the toxin. But really, this is not a super tight bond call the styrene is a very tight bond. It’s very strong, but that’s a prescription binder. And there are a couple of papers on mitochondrial damage happening. So I’m not a huge fan of color storming out of the gate for people if they already have chronic fatigue. Now, I’m not a pharmacist, I’m not a medical doctor. So if your doctor says cola star means the best Fine, go for it. But for me when I took cola star mean, I do think it irritated my gut quite a bit. So I was kind of fixing one thing and then irritating another I was pulling the mycotoxins out. But then my gut became more irritated and I had more sensitivities to certain foods. So looking back, what I’ve done it again, I don’t know, I may have just lean more on some of the natural binders that would have just took longer, I was just desperate to get better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and so I know with colas diarmaid people that are listening, the research shows this is going to be more helpful to the mycotoxins that are produced by the Aspergillus and Penicillium molds. And a lot of times, if I haven’t great evidence, you would know maybe a little more than me is the specific mold aren’t necessarily the big immunological issue. It’s more of the mycotoxins produced by the mold. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: Well, the bigger problem with the mold itself is just when you’re colonized, so a lot of people will do on the Oh, you’ll see that they’re not colonized, but they just have the mycotoxins. So the way I say it is, you kind of have three situations. Step one, you could be a mold factory. Step two, you could be a mold reservoir, or technically, you could be both you could be a reservoir and a factory at the same time. That’s when the actual mold is the problem. And then that’s where the antifungals come in, in addition to the binders.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re saying, so you’re saying the Aspergillus Penicillium mold can be produced by your internal microbiome because of different fungal overgrowth in your body?
Evan Brand: Totally, yeah, if you’ve been exposed long enough, or a big enough amount of it, or your immune system is weakened by other things, whether it’s like you mentioned gut infections or lime or co infections. If something’s weakened do enough in that colony can take place, then you’re in bigger trouble and just using the binders won’t get you better, because you haven’t turned off the water hose. Essentially, you’re still so even if you’re in a desert island situation, you’re still colonized. So you’re generating mycotoxins internally, and binders are just going to open the drain, they’re not going to stop the water pouring in the bucket.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So that’s where addressing the gut stuff really makes a big difference, wiping out using specific herbs to kind of clean down the fungal overgrowth and bacterial overgrowth and make more of a difference. Of course, with molds, probably more on the fungal side, correct?
Evan Brand: Yeah. And that’s the cool thing about what you and I do is we use a lot of herbs that are broad spectrum, right? So it’s fun, because we may come in and see this colonization problem, but we’re also going to come in and simultaneously be working on the bacterial overgrowth and the parasites and maybe h pylori is in the mix too. And worms and, and gut inflammation. So I would say rarely Are you just going to come in and just do the antifungals. We’re probably going to see many more things going on. By the time you get to a fungal overgrowth. Like if you see on an oat test, you’ll see the Aspergillus growing by the time you get to that point, there’s probably also Candida, there’s probably also some SIBO stuff, there’s potentially also parasite infections to sort of find just the colonization so far, and all the testing I’ve looked at, it’s pretty rare. You’re usually going to have three, four or five infections at the same time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, totally. That makes a lot of sense. I would just say out of the gates, think of the mold as like the seeds and think of the, the fruits that’s that’s bared by the seeds is like the mycotoxins and essentially, you’re saying you could have a whole bunch of seeds down there. And not necessarily a lot of fruit being buried from those seeds or you can just have a lot of the the fruit and the vegetables right. Those are the mycotoxins. I mean, I have a lot of the seeds there. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s a good way to look at it. Yeah. I mean, I think of mycotoxins. I just call them mold farts because you could go in a building and you could be exposed to okra toxin. in it. Let’s say your child goes to a moldy school or a moldy daycare your child can be exposed to the Penicillium and the Aspergillus but it might not get colonized your child might just come home and it only has the mold fart inside of them. AKA the okratoxin the Michael-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And you can eliminate that and you can detoxify it. Some people they may just be genetically sensitive and they have a harder time eliminating that that mold far out of their system. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: Yeah, exactly. And so people they kind of question us like, Well, why is this such a big deal? moulds everywhere, blah, blah, blah. So just I just want to say just two things on that real quick. Number one is the buildings are much tighter than they used to be. So we don’t have that natural leakage. I mean, you think of like an old 1800s farmhouse, you’ll feel the draught coming in and they use plaster and other building materials. They didn’t use paperback drywall like we use today. So the building materials have changed and the the homes are much tighter. So I mean, you could have an old house in Kentucky. From the 1800s built of plaster, and it might have not been moldy or if it was built of concrete or something, but now you’ve got lumber and then you’ve got paperback drywall, you’ve got high humidity, you’ve got the moisture. People used to do clotheslines, my grandmother would hang her clothes. I remember as a kid, she had the big clothesline, now, you have a dryer in the home, you’ve got moisture coming from that you’ve got your washing machine, you’ve got your dishwasher. Now where that thing is off gassing humidity, you’ve got showers and bathrooms, and we just build this moist on envelope which is a home. So that’s why you and I we have whole house dehumidifiers in our house. So that’s really one important strategy. If you’re like, Okay, yeah, I’m gonna do the binders. Now what? Well, you’ve got to make sure your environment is an oasis. So it’s the air purifiers. It’s the dehumidifiers. It’s the mold treatments that we do inside the home that really are the icing on the cake, or maybe not even the icing. It’s the foundation if you’re getting exposed. You’re wasting your time with these protocols.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s very interesting too I saw, there was, I think, built in the 1800s. And one of the things they use for insulation in the home was a horsehair. So you had horsehair mixed with plaster all in the walls. And that was what they use for insulation. I wonder if I would imagine hair probably wouldn’t mold too much. But it was really interesting. And they couldn’t even get Wi Fi in the home because the horsehair was so insulating from Wi Fi technology it couldn’t even pass through it met crazy.
Evan Brand: Wow. Well, I know a lot of the camper vans you know people are taking vans and converting them into like travel things for the road. They’re putting wool insulation in there because the wool can get moist and wet and it won’t mold versus if you’re doing like a standard like cellulose or other type of insulation that will create mold. So yeah, I mean, nature is smart nature’s got it figured out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s probably why some of those homes that had the hair in it, you know, imagine the horsehair is probably very similar in regards to the lack of molding capacity.
Evan Brand: Yeah, there’s it’s not organic, right. I mean, some could argue well, that’s here that’s natural, but it’s not an organic material like paper like mold wants to eat paper fungus wants to eat paper that’s just part of it’s the natural biological process. But here’s [inaudible] interested in eating that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we talked about mold or fungus kind of colonizing. We have SIBO bacteria or Candida which is a common fungus species. All of these produce their own toxins, right. mycotoxins are produced from Candida as well. And these can create whether it’s acid aldehyde, causing a drunk feeling or making you feel drowsy and brain foggy and tired or affecting the mitochondria, or whether it’s endotoxin Produced by H. pylori or some kind of a bacterial overgrowth, whether it’s citrobacter, prep, Prevotella, Pseudomonas, right. All these different types of bacteria, these things can affect obviously gut permeability. And when we affect permeability, we automatically have a negative effect on our immune system because the more permeable our gut is the more undigested foods the more these mycotoxins or endotoxins get in our bloodstream. They can make their way up to our brains and cross between the astrocytes which are the blood brain barrier, immune markers, immune cells, and once they’re in their brain, they can create immune reactions. And they can activate our micro glial cells. And these can create brain fog issues, mood issues, maybe sleep issues, and of course, people have mold, one of the most common symptoms, is this, like this equilibrium brain fog type of scenario. Is that one of the symptoms you notice the most frequently, Evan?
Evan Brand: Totally, yeah, it’s not fine, but I’m slowly recovering. And my old test did show I had Candida and my diets clean. So I’m basically animal base, plus some nuts and some berries here and there. And so people immediately think, oh, Candida, yeah, but I’m paleo or I’m AIP or whatever. There’s no way I can have Candida. And you made a great point that Candida will actually produce mycotoxins specifically one called glio toxin and we can test for that via urine. Aspergillus mold also makes it so if you see super high gliotoxin and you’re super spacey, we know that that could be from a water damage building, but it also could be from Candida. Yeah, if you look on Dr. shoemakers website, surviving mold, or Neil Nathan’s book, toxic, those are great resources to look for symptoms, we put it on our intake form. Now that’s how we justify testing is we just have those symptoms on there, and we just have people check it off on the forum. And anytime we see more than three symptoms checked off in the last six months, we just immediately say okay, we need to run for urinary mycotoxins and I will tell you pretty much 9.9 out of 10 times, if they check, check, check and then we test the mycotoxins are there. And then that gives people the confidence that we’re doing the appropriate binders and the appropriate protocol to address it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and for me, a lot of times out of the gates when I see a lot of these cognitive issues, I just wait and see and look at how much of the foundational things we’re going to do to improve it. So a lot of times just getting the diet cleaned up, getting digestion cleaned up, making sure we’re eliminating, making sure the environments pretty decent, right? There’s nothing over in the environment. A lot of times if we start to see movement on that people are improving. I don’t even jump into the mold stuff out of the gates. I only jump into it if there’s a stronger history, or things aren’t moving in the right direction. Some of these foundational things.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you and I are a little different in that just because now people like seeking me out because they already know they’ve been exposed. Like, oh, Evan, I heard your story. It’s like, Oh, great. Now I got all these like moldy people coming out of the woodwork to come get. Yeah. So they already know, you know what I mean? Yeah. So it’s definitely complicated things.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And if you’re getting more people that are having these issues, and already know it, and already have done the foundational things that it makes sense to just kind of go into that next initial step, for sure.
Evan Brand: I say it’s not really but but I didn’t finish the thought on it, which was we were talking about pooping. And we got into the SIBO and the SIFO and the infections. And, and one thing we were talking about as the the idea of binding being really attractive, because it sounds like it’s just going to grab on to the toxin. And it’s just like perfectly in a straight jacket, essentially. But that’s not actually how it works. And you can actually get worse using binders. And I did that one day. And in particular, I’ve had many days like this, but one where I took like eight capsules of charcoal, because I was just ramping up slowly to see how I felt when I got up to eight. Oh, my God, I was way worse. And the reason is, the binder is a weak magnet, I think is the best way to look at it. And so the mycotoxin is attached to it. But it can still detach on its journey through your intestinal tract and reabsorb into the bloodstream, especially if you have gut irritation or leaky gut. So this goes back into what you’re hitting on, which is you really got to do the gut work, get the gut somewhat optimized first, or maybe simultaneously optimize the gut. Because if you’ve got all these binders moving stuff through, but your gut super leaky, or the second problem is you’re constipated, you’re not pooping, you’re going to reabsorb a lot of this stuff and get worse. So if you’ve taken binders, and you feel worse, those are two reasons why.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. I mean, if you go, I think you can get these you see them at like the Science Museum and your kid. It’s like a plate of iron filings. And then you put a magnet on top, and you can see the the iron filings kind of trailing the magnet. And obviously, like, the faster you go, you’re going to see more of the iron filings kind of like falling off the tail end right kind of getting left behind, right? If you put that magnet in there and like you just really go slow through the the iron filings, or you keep a larger percent of those iron filings. So I kind of look at that is if we start using binders, the less we use, the less fall off, we’re going to have as well. Well, one, the less you’re going to mobilize, right and the less you mobilize the last fall off as a percentage, right and as a absolute amount. So if we’re going to start with binders, we’re going to start with a very, very small amount to mitigate the follow up percentage, that is just going to happen because Gavin said there’s a weak bond there and so you can break some of that off. And of course, a lot of these binders could cause you to have slower motility. So if you’re already on the fence with your guts, and you start doing any binders at all and you notice your motility starts to slow down, got to be careful, we gotta start either waiting, fixing the gut, maybe adding some natural motility support. We just have to be very careful binders causing slow motility is going to be a recipe to cause more mold die off issues.
Evan Brand: Yeah, for me, luckily, you know, I never had a problem pooping. My poops are always great even and I never got constipated. That’s like the biggest complaint of it. No, I was fine. So for me, I was lucky. But many people they do get stopped up. So we will come in and use like magnesium can work great like magnesium hydroxide or citrate will use higher dose vitamin C. What else do you like to use to move the bowels?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, we can use natural pro kinetics, whether it’s ginger, five HTP, a lot of times neurotransmitter five HTP issues can cause problems, because that really helps with the gut as well. We can look at things like carnitine we can look a lot of different bitters that can be helpful. Not having enough acid or enzyme levels can easily cause lower motility. Obviously, a lot of sympathetic nervous system stress over adrenal stimulation, can’t activate more of the sympathetic nervous system that can slow down peristalsis and cause a lot of problems. They actually need more parasympathetic nervous system stimulation. So all those things can can push us in that wrong direction.
Evan Brand: Yeah, this is fun stuff. I mean, this is like one of the smoking guns. I mean, it certainly was for me, and I hope people are encouraged by this, you can get better with this. It takes time, timeline wise, two to three years is what I would say for most people with a major toxin load. I’ve seen it done in a year or so. But if you ask some of the medical Doc’s that are treating mold, they’ll say three to five year timeline, I just want to make that clear, because some people get frustrated, they’ll say, hey, um, you know, six weeks into a protocol. And you know, here’s my results. It’s like, man, six weeks is just a drop in the bucket. So if you’ve been exposed to mold as a kid, or your mother had placental transfer, or you were breastfed, and that was transferred, or you grew up in a moldy house or had childhood exposure, you had exposure in your college dorm, then you had exposure in your office and your home. I mean, if you’re talking 50 67 year old person reversing mold issues in two to three years, that’s very fast. So I just want people to have realistic expectations with this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, obviously depends upon how long you’ve been accumulating these things for sure. I mean, if it’s colonized, because if you’re colonized-
Evan Brand: -too, you got to knock that out too. Because let’s say you got exposed 20 years ago, but now you’re colonized so you’re just generating internal mycotoxins That is also something I think is going to definitely increase your timeline.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And your best way to look at that. It’s going to be like an organic acid test where you’re looking at some of those Aspergillus those type of mold. Those mold critters, is that correct?
Evan Brand: Yeah, there’s like four or five markers on page one. I know you like to use Genova. Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I use that test as well for some of these, you know, more more potential people, or for looking at a lot more oxalates and things like that. That’s a nice test to look at that.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So that one’s good. And then the Great Plains is good too. I mean, the page one on it’s awesome because they also have a marker for I think it’s try carbolic. I’d have to look back but they do have a marker now for Fusarium, which is cool because sometimes you’ll see some people colonized for Fusarium, which is another mole but not Aspergillus. A lot of times it’s both though if they’re colonized, that means they were so weak or had so much exposure. Usually you’ll see the Aspergillus and Fusarium you can see all mode molds growing. Maybe the technology gets better in the next few years. But for now, you can at least test the most common mold we see which is Aspergillus.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. So let’s kind of go into all the different binders. Right, we talked about costar I mean that’s a medication that’s going to help more of the okra toxin, right, the Aspergillus Penicillium molds. Charcoal is a common one. And like it, charcoal is very prone to constipation. It’s also let’s say, if you had tend to be more sensitive in the colon area, whether it’s hemorrhoids or fissures, it can be a little bit rough on people’s colons on the way out. So I find if you tend to be more prone for hemorrhoids, that can be a problem. So keep an eye on charcoal. It’s a good one. It’s the cheap one. It’s nice, you know, that’s coconut shells, right? That’s where they’re getting a lot of the good charcoal from. And again, we like charcoal for primarily removing a couple of different types of moles, right, the big mole that we’re going to see with charcoal, it’s gonna affect the trachoma scenes, right? It’s going to have some effect on okra toxin as well. Those are going to be some of the big ones out of the gate with charcoal, Caesar anything else that charcoal tends to be very helpful with Yeah, okra and the trifle at the scenes. Anything else there?
Evan Brand: It may help us in pesticide herbicide stuff too, right? I mean, we know charcoal is a pretty good broad spectrum, but it’s not perfect in isolation. That’s why you and I like to use blends a lot because we see people go Yep, benefits of charcoal and then they just totally ignore the others.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So it’s nice to have some broad spectrum there. Obviously, we have things like clays as well, which are really nice, tend to be a little bit more gentle coming out the colon. Again, very helpful for gliotoxin ochratoxin zearalenone. There’s a couple different mold toxins that you’re gonna see more on the beneficial side. In regards to clays also, it’s going to be very helpful if aflatoxin as well, f one and F was in a what be what you see more with the peanuts, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah, totally more food base, the area known to be zero and unknown is going to come from Fusarium that really cattle, right? Yeah, so the cattle, they they’ll test high because they’re eating like messed up corn, corn, nasty.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve even heard Dave Asprey talking about putting zero unknown in the cow’s ears, they’ll put it in their ears, and it causes them to accumulate more fat. Now, we know that mold toxins have a negative effect on thyroid. So I wonder if it’s just lowering the thyroid enough where they’re just becoming more fat accumulators versus burners. So that’s an interesting concept.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well, Sierra Leone is super super estrogenic, too. So maybe it’s just making them out of high estrogen and then that creates the body fat.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know Dave talked about that many years ago, but which is really interesting, but putting it in the cow’s ear, like a pellet. That’s crazy.
Evan Brand: It’s bizarre. Well, I can confirm that the clays work amazing. First year alone, we had a woman who had a lot of estrogen dominant symptoms. So we got to run the zeolite spray Actually, we just tried to go isolation and see how it worked. Man, it worked like a charm. We got the retest back in the zero linoone was gone and a lot of her estrogen dominance symptoms went away. So that was freakin amazing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s great. Next we have gluco monin and different fibers. So fibers are going to be really helpful whether it’s like a modified citrus pectin. gluco monans. Also, another type of fiber that we use is a premier probiotic, it can be helpful, but that’s going to be helpful against aflatoxin ochratoxin psoralen own modified citrus pectin is also shown to be great at biting up heavy metals lead different things like that. okra toxin like I already mentioned, those are some of the big ones out of the gate. Anything else you want to comment there?
Evan Brand: Yeah, before we forget to mention it. Calcium D glue grade is also really helpful. We do talk about that in regards to estrogen you and I’ve done a podcast on like bacterial overgrowth, and we’ve talked about how high beta glucuronic days will basically cause you to recirculate hormones and toxins. So, we will come in and use calcium D glucose as part of a mole detox protocol, but it does help with other things too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, I like that. Very cool. Next, chlorella chlorella is very good, really high in certain vitamins A C and E good source of fiber, helps with heavy metals as well been shown to be very helpful at mobilizing, really mobilizing a binding up to any mercury. It’s in your gut. So if you’re dumping a whole bunch of mercury via your gallbladder, from your liver into your intestines, it does help bind that up which is really Really good, very helpful at binding up different types of mold as well. The ones are going to be the aflatoxin. That’s the one you’re going to see more in food products, peanuts, right, that okra toxin, which is a common one that you’re going to see. So it’d be more like, like water damage in the home for okra, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, Aspergillus makes that so and then also, you mentioned that mobilization. So a lot of times we’ll use combos, so we’ll use like a chlorella and cilantro cuz cilantro will help mobilize. And that’s the cool thing is, you may create what’s called a mycotoxin detox protocol. But in reality, you’re working on heavy metals, you’re working on pesticides and herbicides. So it’s really fun because you’re killing so many birds with the same stones when it comes to these binders. So chlorella is amazing. And we like to use micronized versions of it. So we can put links and show you what we want. And what we would want you to use, obviously, at this point, may be good to consult the practitioner, you know, we’re happy to help or if you have another practitioner guiding you through this, who’s done this before, it’s helpful because you do want to be able to approach these things in a smart way and you want to know what to do if you do get a reaction because like I said, I screwed myself up many times, the best way to learn is experience in the trenches, and I’m in the trenches on my own mold recovery. And I tell you, too much chlorella sounds like Oh, just some chlorella. Whoa, right. That’s powerful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, exactly. Next one humic acid, right, we see humic acid or different fulvic minerals. A lot of different companies are recommending these and pushing these now which are helpful, right? Click acid fulvic minerals, they’re very helpful because they are anti inflammatory, which is really good. I think they tend to not push constipation as much right? You can kind of take them they’re not going to slow down your motility as much. Have you had that experience?
Evan Brand: Yeah, you and I’ve used that one, the toxic bind, when that one with the fulvic acid is not as much clay are anything that one tends to move the bowels pretty good. It may even have a bow moving effect to it in reality.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And it doesn’t, I don’t think it binds up as much on the nutrient side, a lot of these binders, you definitely want to take more away from food, because they can bind up a lot of the supplements or nutrition in the food where the humic acids not going to be as competing for nutrients as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, good call. I have seen that out where there’ll be discussion like, Hey, you can take it with or without food. I still think empty stomach is better, though, especially first thing in the morning or even at night, because you’re fasted and when you’re fasting that’s been proven to excrete more mycotoxin. So if you wake up first thing in the morning, you’ve been fasting for 12 14 hours. To me, that’s a great time to take a binder
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And if you’re binding things up, and there’s something there and you’re binding up a nutrient where you could be binding up a mold toxin, well, you’re kind of just you’re losing kind of your bang for your buck on these binders. So you want it to have the greatest ability to bind to as much of the toxic debris that’s present on other nutritive substances. So we got to keep an eye on that. And the next we talked about probiotics we already hit that right that’s going to have a major effect on binding with many different models, whether it’s aflatoxin gliotoxin, Stratego. matto syston the tri coat the scenes, the psoralen own, the annotated bee and then the Citron and these are different mold toxins that we already hit on in the beginning I’m just gonna re summarize that again for y’all but probiotics tend to have the best bang for your buck that’s why working on fixing your gut even if you don’t have mold issues is gonna make you more prone to mold toxicity in the future having good motility. good healthy gut bacteria balance good digestion really is the foundation for healthy mold detoxification excretion.
Evan Brand: That’s amazing, isn’t it? Because you and I’ve gone and and I totally appreciate you being on board with me to go down some of these mold rabbit holes together ever since you and I became educated on this and Oh, totally, we kind of went in some, I don’t want to say tangents. But we’ve dove into Glutathione and [inaudible] and cell membranes and all these other things. But now here we are, again, circling right back to the foundation of just improving the gut function. And that’s just amazing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, I totally agree. So anyone listening if you guys enjoy this or you want to dive kind of a little bit deeper down the rabbit hole of mobile detoxification and or of course dealing with the gut because that’s a major foundation for it. Feel free click down below we’re going to have links to Evan’s site EvanBrand.com where you can reach out to Evan, also my site, JustinHealth.com where you can reach out to myself Dr. J, we’re here to help you worldwide via Skype, FaceTime, all the different video mediums as well as phone, we’re excited to work with you all we have colleagues as well that we work with to help kind of get people in the right direction. Outside of that, anything else you want to highlight?
Evan Brand: Now that’s it, we’ll put some links below. So you can check out some of the products we do have some professional probiotics that we use clinically that we give to our clients. So these are things that you can access to just as a listener of the show, and that’ll support the show. But more importantly, it’ll help you to get this stuff out of your body. So take care and if you have questions, concerns, please reach out we’re here for you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks. So I will put our links below for the products and labs and supplements that we like and use the most at our practice. Thanks guys. Have a phenomenal day. Take care y’all.
Evan Brand: Take care. Bye