Natural Solutions For Dandruff Fungal Overgrowth – Dr. J Live Podcast #162
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about dandruff in today’s podcast. Learn what causes it and explore other possible underlying health conditions like gut infections involving bacteria, yeast, fungus or parasites.
Gain an understanding on how functional medicine practitioners approach this kind of problem including their clinical strategies and the testing involved. Get very helpful information regarding the products that they have found effective to address dandruff and the supplements they recommend to improve health conditions related to dandruff issues.
In this episode, we cover:
06:32 Antibiotics and Dandruff
07:27 Fungus and Refined Sugar
14:25 Birth Control Pills Effect and Dandruff
23:03 Hair Loss and Thrush Issues
32:16 Glutamine and Leaky Gut
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. My wife and I brought our new baby to his first wedding. That was pretty exciting. First wedding with the new one was fun and he did a great job.
Evan Brand: Oh, good. Ain’t it great when you go out on public and the baby is good, isn’t that great?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Totally. How’s your baby doing?
Evan Brand: Oh, she’s great. She’s actually— she’s got her molars coming in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, wow!
Evan Brand: So she’s very incessantly crying this morning. Uh— but wife texted me and said the baby knocked out. So naptime is a good time. That’s great, man. Very cool. Well, we chatted kinda in our early part of the show talking about what we’re gonna talk about today, really. And we kinda discuss that dandruff is a big issue that’s been coming up in our clinical practice. We want to talk about kinda what is and just some of the clinical strategies that we utilize to approach it and to help address it from a root cause functional medicine perspective.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Something I think we should hit on first is what’s the conventional approach is? Is it dermatologist that people are getting refer to? Like what’s the rabbit hole would you say that people end up on with the dandruff problem?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So dandruff typically uses excessive shedding of kinda the skin on the scalp. And it tends to be fungal driven. Of course, there are natural diet things that help, right? Good fats, good proteins, like the digestive, the hydration component. All those things are important, but the infection component is really important because you can have the diet stuff all dialed in and that may not be enough to get rid of that infection component. And sometimes the— the fungal overgrowth that—that’s there could be there from a deeper infection. It could be there from H. pylori or blasto or deeper parasite infection. So, it’s important we keep our eye on what could be there in the scalp area, but also what other bigger infections could be promoting that overgrowth.
Evan Brand: Yup. So, if you go to conventional doc and you just happened to bring up dandruff, what are they going to do? You think they’ll just refer you out to a dermatologist in then they’ll give you some steroids for it? What would the conventional approach be? That way we have something to contrast it to our functional medicine approach.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So your conventional approach is gonna be head and shoulders or sell some blow. That’s gonna be the general conventional approach. They may give you uh—a uh—you know, systemic antifungal medication that they see other kinds of things happening there. That’s gonna be the general consensus.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the first thing that we’re gonna look at is we would probably lean more towards a anti-fungal kind of shampoo that’s herbally-based like tea tree or lavender or uhm—neem. These are some of the really good antifungal shampoos that are out. We’ll put some of the links below couple of the ones that I like are Art Naturals and Purely Northwest. We’ll put some links below here, so people can access them. We—I use those in my clinic a lot. You can also just get some pure you know, apple cider vinegar. You can mix a little bit of coconut oil. You can even do a little bit a tea tree and put it straight and kind just gonna do a little scalp massage and get right there in the scalp. That can be helpful, too. Uhm—but some other shampoos that are out there that already to go. So that’s another good option for you. Just, if you don’t want to have to deal that.
Evan Brand: Cool. So let’s talk about testing. I mean this is always our philosophy. “You’ve got to test, don’t guess.” If you’ve got a fungal issue, we talked about parasites. So we want to look into the gut and in the organic acids testing. Wouldn’t you say that be an important one for this, too?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I like the organic acids because because you can kinda look at fungus that may be more systemic. So when we look at a gut test, we may see various species of fungus in the gut. We may see Candida. We may see geotrichum yeast. We may see other types of Candida species. These are different species of yeast. And again, yeast is like the big umbrella. Fungus is the big umbrella and then we have some species of yeast there kinda under that big umbrella of fungus. So fungus is the big umbrella, yeast is the— the smaller kind of umbrella. And again,s mold like different molds that you may see like aflatoxin mold or ochre toxin. These different compounds are also kinda under that fungus mold umbrella as well, right?
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So getting to your question—Those are some of the big ones that you may see. Now, the benefit of the organic acid test is we have some markers that are more systemic base. So we have the D-rabanose. It’s an interesting marker that looks at fungal overgrowth from a systemic perspective. So, sometimes we see people to get the stool test back and they’re maybe okay from a fungal perspective, but when we look at the organic acid urine, we may see that the D-rabanose is on the higher side which tells us there maybe some kinda fungal thing going on at a systemic level and sometimes we may see it systemically but not on the gut. So that’s a good marker, too, for treatment.
Evan Brand: Yep, cool. Yes, so, Justin and I, between us both, we run thousands and thousands and thousands of stool and organic acids testing. I would say, Justin, tell me if your assumption is different. Nine out of every 10 people have a yeast and/or a fungal problem. Whether it’s to the level which can cause extreme issues or not. Maybe it’s not nine out of 10 that have an extreme problem, but someone somewhere, nine out of 10 is gonna pop up with something that needs to be addressed in that category
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100%. I think there’s some –there’s always some gut component. I would say the majority is a gut component. And most people with a gut component, uh—yeast is gonna be present. I find that yeast as the primary issue isn’t more common—it’s—actually less common, I should say. Where it’s more common is there’s a deeper, infection like a parasite or bacterial infection that’s of a higher level.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And yeast is kinda there, kinda like you see these sharks and you see these underlings that kinda suck to the shark’s belly.
Evan Brand: Yup, right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’re kinda like that. They’re just there as the underling and you get these bigger, stronger kind of critter that is the primary focus.
Evan Brand: Oh, by the way, I don’t know if this is true, I heard from a client of mine last week, supposedly, diagnostic solutions is coming out with a new panel that can be added to the GI-MAP where we can actually test for worms including pin worms.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome! I’m really excited. Worms are definitely a concern. I know we’ve talked about, you know, we use –we add in worm wood. We added mimosa pudica, various herbs like that to help with a lot of these worms as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So, that’s true. We’re gonna have some really good extra clinical nuggets in our hand.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.
Evan Brand: So—I wanted—I wanted to mention antibiotics. So, somebody does have dandruff and we could also convey that message to other issues with the hair, the skin, the nails.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: There’s probably a history of like a urinary tract infection, right? So like these yeast and fungus that you’re talking about. If that’s affecting the vaginal area for a female and they get put on some type of natural antifungal or probably a conventional anti fungal. That stuff’s gonna come back with a vengeance. They may end up doing antibiotics therapy, too. And that’s not good. That’s gonna create a lot of room for the yeast and fungus to overgrow and all of a sudden, you’ve got the clean up crew that has to come post-antibiotics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.
Evan Brand: We’re not big fans. Like if you can avoid antibiotics, if your life is not in danger, then you could probably go ahead and say skip them and go to the natural remedies instead.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. So of course, the big thing when we deal with any type of fungus is really cutting out refined sugar. So, if we could look at our carbohydrates, we kinda draw a line down the middle. We have like real food carbohydrates on one side of the fence, and then we have refined sugar carbohydrate with extra added sugar to the carbs on the other side. So, basically, draw that line, anything that’s refined sugar, we throw out, and then the left side, I kinda break it down into starchy, non –starchy, okay? So, starchy being like sweet potatoes, squash, white potatoes. Non-starchy could be our veggies, uh—broccolis, brussel sprouts cauliflower, kale. Those are our non-starchy. And then basically, we have our high sugar fruit and our low sugar fruit. High sugar fruit are gonna be more tropical things—bananas, pineapples, mangoes, right? Those kind of things. Then we have our lower sugar fruits— berries green apple, grape fruit passion fruit. Those kind of things. So we try, number one, stay on the non-starchy carbs primarily. And the low sugar fruits. So typically, 1 to 2 servings a day even on an anti-fungal approach is gonna be okay. Some people they go to the excessive and cut everything out but there’s some clinical evidence that these fungal critters may go into the spore-like state where they’re now kinda in hibernation mode. It may make it harder to kill them. So, we’ll actually have 1 to 2 servings of fruit in there. We may even actually up the carbs even more during the killing to bate them out. We want to wake up that bear so it’s not hiding in its cave all winter, uh—so we can hunt them down, so to speak.
Evan Brand: That’s a great point. So if a ketogenic— if a ketogenic diet has been the norm for someone, we may need to bump up carbs a bit, maybe add a little bit of fruit back. And there’s been a lot of demonizing of fruit lately, which I’m just not really a fan of that. I think there’s a lot of value there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Again, it’s all individual. If you’re super over weight, you have a lot of markers for insulin resistance, your waist size is greater than 40inches for male, you know, up 20 pounds too much weight on there, then, yeah, that may make more sense to limit it or at least focus on the lower glycemic, low sugar variety, right? Low fructose variety. Maybe keep that fructose below 15g a day. That makes sense. But if you’re pretty active and pretty healthy weight, I’m fine with it. Hand—couple of handfuls about a day, that’s not a problem.
Evan Brand: Yup, good. So you mention the diet peace, now, some talk about diet as if he could cure you of these problems. I mean, I don’t really agree there where if you just follow this Candida diet, all of a sudden your problems are going to go away.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think if someone is like, you know, they’re kinda like dipping their toe in the functional medicine field like, “Is this worth it?” Well, just start with the diet stuff and see how much you get accomplished with that. If someone is having a lot of refined sugar and a lot of refined carbohydrate, right? Remember that line I drew? Refined carbs and then whole food carbs? If they’re having a lot on this side and they cut that out, they may see a significant improvement, which is great. And they may cut the grains out as well, which is great. But uhm—that maybe that last 20 or 30%. Or if there’s a deeper infection, uhm—that will have to be removed as well. So if it’s purely a fungal overgrowth that you may see a good improvement, but there may be some stuff still lingering. If that’s the case, then we got to dig deeper. Put on our clinical hats and you wanna definitely reach out to someone like myself or you, Evan.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. I guess my point—I wasn’t trying to pass the diet piece. I guess my point is that a lot of people sell these books, promoting certain diets as if you can magically eradicate all of your gut problems. For me I got maybe 80% better so I dealt with IBS for probably 10 years, maybe even 15years. I mean, I had always had irritable bowel problems. Once my diet was better, my gut problems were there, but then when you first took a look at me, you said, “Evan, you’ve got parasites. And that’s something that no matter how much kale and broccoli I ate, I wasn’t going to get rid of parasites.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Or grass-fed meats. Yeah. Exactly. I get that. So, we’re kinda biased because we see a lot of people that already come to us, they got their diet on track and we got to dig deeper on top of that. So, I get where you’re coming from, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. But the low hanging fruit that is the diet. And then we—we’ve, you know, Justin and I often have people that come to us that have been doing like a Paleo template or even like uh—autoimmune Paleo and they’re still sick and that’s where you say, “Okay, good. You’ve got the diet in place. It has to be in place, perfect.” Now, let’s dig deeper and that’s where we gonna find this other stuff.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. So we hit the uh—we hit the fungal component of dandruff. We talked about the excessive shedding of the skin on the scalp. You know, a lot of babies have it. It’s called cradle cap or seborrhea dermatitis, tends to be fungal-based. Again, with my kiddo, or just really giving just real, good-quality breastmilk, but also what the mom eats has a huge effect on the breast milk.
So my wife has kinda have a good Paleo template, really on point. We give our kid probiotics as well. He gets the infant strain probiotic. I know your daughter did the same thing as well, which helps a lot, too. And surprisingly, our baby’s had you know, zero acid reflux, zero spit up. So I think that that’s really made a big difference as well.
Evan Brand: Cool. That’s awesome. Yeah. So mom’s listening, this could apply to babies, too. Now, do you have any evidence on this? Like a mom passing a yeast or a fungus overgrowth to the baby via breastmilk? I’ve heard that was Lyme’s disease and co-infections, you know, the spirochetes can pass through the breast milk but I just wonder about you know, the yeast. Could you pass a yeast through the breastmilk?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, that may or may not be the case. I’m not really sure. There may be some data on that. Uh—my biggest concern is a lot of the infants that are gonna be fed formula, if you look at a lot of the ingredients, it’s about 50% high fructose corn syrup.
Evan Brand: Oh, God.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you look at the amount of sugar that’s in a lot of these uhm—formulas, it’s the same amount that’s in a Coke.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You just gotta be careful because that’s not really the best thing for your child. And then a lot of it is gonna be GMO, too. And there’s evidence of uh— Mercury on getting into a lot of these high fructose compounds due to the extraction process. That’s not good either.
Evan Brand: Wow. So I’ve talked with a couple practitioners who do like a microscope—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: When you look at the blood and they’ve seen little—little balls of yeast basically in the serum of the blood. So I just wonder, “Huh, wonder if any of that actually gets into the system where— where mom pass it to the baby or not.” Well, I have to keep asking, keep digging. That is just my curiosity, but—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s a really great question here. And I’ve I think clinically, it makes sense. I see a lot of women that have poor gut issues and their child can get it. You know, they’ll get thrush with that white coating, so to speak. And they’ll get kind of a yeast issue where they get a lot of kind of a diaper rash stuff and that can happen as well. Like with our child, we’ve had no real yeast issues not even any diaper rash. We just kinda—like a couple of times, my wife will put a little bit of coconut oil there. We have some natural stuff. Yeah, we put there. But outside of that, he’s—you know, my son Aidan has been doing great on that side of the fence.
Evan Brand: That’s great. All right, so we hit the diet piece, we talked about antibiotics as a potential problem leading up to this. I would say birth control pills could be a factor, too. I’ve have had a lot of women— I don’t know the exact correlation or causation. I don’t know if that’s doing something with progesterone and estrogen that—that’s causing the dandruff for what it is. Do you have a take on that of why birth control pills could be a factor?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Birth control pills have an effect of alkalizing. So we can alkalize the urinary track. It has effect in alkalizing the guts and fungus likes to be more in an alkaline environment. And now everyone’s like “alkalize your diet” right? Well, a lot of these bacteria and we’ll just say fungus’s and bacteria, they like more alkaline environments. If you look at what probiotics do, probiotics actually add acidic load to the intestines. Like if you look at acidophilus, it literally translates to acid loving or acid producing. If you look at a lot of the really good fermentable drinks, a lot of them are very high in various acids, whether it’s glucuronic acid or uhm—
Evan Brand: Acetic acid.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Acetic acid, which is the main acid in apple cider vinegar and it’s not a surprise that acids like apple cider vinegar are used to treat fungal issues in the hair or they’re used to treat UTI issues as well. People will then utilize the Apple cider vinegar before meal to help with digestion and also acidify the urinary tract, too. So, a lot of these things are very helpful to decrease the critters and it changes the environment in the gut. So, good probiotics actually spit out more CO2, right? They spit out more of these really good acids to help get the gut into an environment PH wise with these critters can’t thrive, so to speak.
Evan Brand: Ahh. Okay, got it. Yes. So birth control pills, the antibiotics, maybe the prescription Diflucan’s or other prescription antifungals that you could’ve been on before making these strains more resistant. We talked about the sugar in the diet we talked about the gun infections, looking into those for bacteria and yeast fungus, parasites, getting your gut check with functional testing, not conventional testing. We talked about getting the urine organic acids for looking into the yeast and measuring it that way because stool test often gives us a false negative.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We may even look at blood, too. We may look at candida antibodies like IgA, IgG, IgM. We may see those on the higher side, which could just mean there’s more of a systemic issue. And it’s nice to know because if we don’t have any gut stuff going on or we don’t even see any organic acids stuff, you know, typically, you’ll see some organic acid. You’ll see the D-arabinose there.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So what do you say to a person when they say, “Oh, Justin, can I just go buy a bunch of herbs and just start randomly throwing stuff from the kitchen sink at this problem and see if it works?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, the bigger issue is most people that have these symptoms, they have a whole bunch of other things, too. It’s very rare that you’re like, “Oh, my only chief issue is dandruff.” Or some kind of fungal issue, right? It’s mood, energy, sleep. If you’re female, there’s probably some cycle imbalances, whether it’s menstruation issues or mood issues or breast tenderness, back pain. Whatever’s happening there and then you have this. So there’s a constellation of the different things happening. And body systems, they function and dysfunction together. So, imagine a beautiful orchestra going, right? And one instrument starts going off. Let’s call that one instrument our fungal overgrowth or uhm— our scalp kind of a dandruff issue, right? That’s our one symptom. That’s our one imbalance. Well, it doesn’t take long before the rest of the orchestra starts singing out of tune as well.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s what I’m referring to when we talk about the other hormonal issues that go out of balance. And then when we start having gut issues, then we can start having more leaky gut, which then can create more immune stress, then we can have more malabsorption and low stomach acid and enzymes and nutrient deficiencies, which then affect neurotransmitters and other hormone pathways. So you can see how this thing can really spiral out of control pretty fast. So, that’s why it’s good always digging deeper to really get a good body system audit of all the other things that are happening.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. I’m so glad you—you said it so eloquently. I did a rant at the end of my podcast that I put up last week and I just told people like, “Look, please, don’t wait until you hit rock bottom. Don’t wait until every body system is falling apart and then you reach out.” Like you and I work with those complex cases all the time. But if you’ve got one thing like it’s anxiety or little bit of depression or little bitt of gut issues or little bit of skin issues, it’s so much better to start getting tested and start digging deep then, as opposed to waiting until you’re symptoms list is 20 pages long. You’ve been suffering for 20 years, then you hit rock bottom, then you decide you want to get better. I’ll tell you, it will save people a lot of money and a lot of suffering if once you see these problems a little tip the iceberg poking out, address it, then don’t wait until like you said you’ve got anxiety, depression, PMS, irritability, mood swings, rage, poor sleep and dandruff to top it all off.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.
Evan Brand: Please. And that’s not even to benefit us. It’s to benefit you. You know, we’ve been so booked up that we aren’t necessarily begging you, “Hey, please come see us.” It’s not like that. It’s the fact that, “Hey, look, I just want to save you some suffering and save you some time.” Justin and I came from our own health journeys as well and if we could just give you one piece of advice and maybe I’m not speaking for him, so I’ll let Justin give his— his feedback, too. But If I could say one thing, it would be if you’ve got a weird symptom, there’s probably some other stuff going on that you just have to find and fix.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.
Evan Brand: Like me, I had to wait until I’d lost about 25 pounds. I had terrible sleep. I woke up, I wasn’t feeling rested. I had a lot of stress. I had some anxiety problems even to the point of a panic attack. I called Justin up one day, “man, my heart’s beating out of my chest. I can’t stop my heart.” You’re like, “Well, how much stress do you got going on? I was like, “ a lot” And he’s like, “how are you sleeping?” I’m like, “haven’t been sleeping very well” and then he’s like, “what’s going on with your gut?” and I was like, “Oh my Lord, every body system is affected” My gut has been affected, my brain, my stress response is broken. I was like, “this ain’t even me, I’m even an anxious person. What’s going on?” And you go, “Oh, it’s parasites, Evan.” So, for me, I had to learn the hard way. I had to wait until my symptoms piled up so much that I was falling apart to then fix it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent agreed. I think we’re at that the point in our careers where we realize that there’s probably uh— more people out there that we see online with the you know, the millions of downloads we get every few months, that were not gonna be able to help anyone— everyone, so to speak. And there’s just too many people out there to help that— you know, we really want to put as much free content out there and if we can just get most of the people to just apply the free stuff, that is going to be huge. And we’re gonna make a huge difference in the world just by itself.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we’re really just getting really good actionable information and I think the key thing I want to push to everyone listening, if you can walk away with just one action item, “Hey, I’m gonna do this.” or “I’m gonna add this component.” or “I’m gonna add this diet shift or this lifestyle change, or this supplement change” I think that you’re gonna make yourself better and healthier after every podcast.
Evan Brand: Agreed. Cool. Do you want to hit some questions for a few minutes?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’ve got some questions.
Evan Brand: Okay, cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone writing questions, if you can kinda keep the questions framed towards the conversation, I mean, you know, you can kinda do a little politician pivot where you’re like, “Hey, dandruff” and then you’re on adrenals, right? We could kinda do that, so to speak. But I’m just trying to keep it connected to what we’re talking about as possible. If it’s so disconnected, we’re just gonna have to skip over the question.
Evan Brand: Yup, yup. Well said. Okay. Yes. So a lot of those were like off-subject questions. Let’s see.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got one here about—let me see, I’ve got Gerald’s question here. Gerald was on my G.I. Clear 2, positive for H. pylori. I feel like it’s returned. If add Masika to the G.I. Clear 2 what dose should I take per day? Typically, two caps TID, two caps, three times a day and we need to retest, Gerald. Make sure the infection is gone. Make sure there’s no residual infections. We want to look a little bit deeper to at your partner or any dogs or pets in the house. Uhm— partner for sure is the easy one because that can, you know, you can go get that reinfected back and forth. So we need you to retest and then do GI Clear2 and the pure Masika, 2 caps TID and get that retested.
Evan Brand: Well said. Yeah. I had that a few weeks ago. A lady, she said, “I feel like my—my gut’s backtracked. I got off your herb. So, what’s going on?” and I said, “Well, now it’s time to test your partner. And sure enough, there is the H. pylori.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: That’s why she’s been getting re-infected. It took three rounds to get rid of it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: Alright, let’s go over to the next one here. There was one from Ovi. We’ll call it uh—I don’t know how to pronounce that full name. “Any tips on reducing hair loss and thrush when coming off of HRT as a female?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So— that would be helpful to know. I mean, imagine, I’m just coming guessing this is menopausal female, okay? So, you know 53-54 and up. So depending on kinda where the hormonal imbalance is, it’d be good to know if there is an estrogen dominance present or if we’re just having low estrogen and low progesterone and everything’s kinda in the tank. So, typically, when I think hair loss, though, I’m leaning more on the thyroid side. So, I’d want to know where the female hormones are at or if you’re cycling or not. So, if you want to comment on that, that’d be helpful. Uh— number two, really looking at the thyroid component because the thyroid has a huge effect on the hair follicles, stimulating the hair follicle to grow. And then number three is the gut component because that’s where we digest and break down a lot of the nutrients and amino acids and fatty acids that become the building blocks for our hair. So I want to look at those three places first.
Evan Brand: Well said. So I’d also add on looking at ferritin levels, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: See if there’s some type of anemia problem. You hit the thyroid so in—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And when I say thyroid, though, that includes all that consolation because iron is very important for making thyroid hormone, so if you have a history, if it’s menopausal female and she’s not vegetarian or vegan, doesn’t have a history of endometriosis or fibroids or excessive menses, it’s probably not an iron issue.
Evan Brand: Good. Good. And then when you talk about the thyroids, too, so this is also including the antibody. So make it sure that there’s no Hashimoto’s at play coz we see that a lot. Justin and I find that many people with autoimmune thyroid, the hair, like nine times out of 10 it’s a problem.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Exactly. We’ll add in collagen peptides, too. Just this collagen is uh—it’s just great. It’s a great building block and then if it’s in peptide form, it’s already super easy to digest. So, give a little plug for my Tru Collagen on that one.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Check it out. Alright. Gerald had a follow-up question for second round of H. pylori eradication, should it be a 30 day protocol or 60 days?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Typically, a minimum 30. You can’t go wrong with just a 30. It just depends on what other infections were present along with that, but if it’s just the H. pylori, let’s say 30—30 to 45 is typically good.
Evan Brand: Yup. Nice. Alright. Mossimo had a question here, “Are sustained-release essential oils and herbs necessary as opposed to the liquid oil taken internally? It’s kind of a confusing question. I didn’t know there was such thing as a sustained-release essential oil, but what were talking about for this conversation would’ve been like a topical. So like Justin mentioned about those brands of the tea tree oil shampoos and such—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: That would just be a couple of drops on the scalp. Use some type of Jojoba or avocado or coconut oil.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And try to dilute that so it doesn’t burn your scalp.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. In my line, we have GI Clear5, which is an emulsified form of oregano. That is more enterically coated. So it does open up more in the small intestine than the stomach. A lot of the fungal issues tend to be more on the stomach. I’m sorry—
Evan Brand: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It tends to be more in the small intestine. H. pylori more in the stomach. Evan Brand: Yeah. I forgot about the—the oregano oils.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: I guess when I read essential oils, I was thinking just like your standard oils that you diffuse.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s why I’d like to have some of my, you know, oils or some of my herbs taken on an empty stomach just so it can get fully out of the stomach into the small intestine where it can really help. It and really help can be little more effective.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Alright. So, Samuel had a question. “What’s your take on taking CBD with no THC for inflammation? I take it for the first time and noticed a huge difference in relaxation.” I’ll hit this one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: I’m a huge fan. I just posted a YouTube video. If you haven’t checked it out, look it up, Samuel. I went to uh—a hemp form here in Kentucky one of the very few hemp programs that has been approved by the state government. And the guys making super high quality CBD and the guy is— so he used it on his son who is having hundreds of seizures per month and now the kid is like 12 years old and hasn’t had seizures in years just from CBD no THC. I think the THC does have benefit. I hope that there’s a couple of bills that are trying to get through for 2018. I hope we can federally just decriminalize cannabis across the board because I have talked with people, especially in the pain department, where when they add a little bit it of THC in, all the sudden their fibromyalgia or chronic pain does get better, which isn’t achieved just by the CBD by itself. So I think both would be awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m not a huge fan of the THC side uhm— I think it can have some really good benefits if you’re going through cancer treatment and have extreme nausea and/or extreme pain and the CBD is not helping enough. I think it can be helpful like if we’re choosing you know, THC over chronic dose of the pain medication or opiate or like a lot ibuprofen, I will definitely reach for the THC component you know, over—over the rest. My biggest thing is just uhm— number one, there’s some potential memory side effects, cognitive side effects. Number two, I would say making sure that you’re not having to incinerate every time, right? Trying to do of a vaporizer or some kind of other medium that’s not involving the incineration, which exposes the poly aromatic hydrocarbons, the heterocyclic ABGs, the carcinogens that are produced. And uh—the CBD obviously is better just because it’s a less psychoactive, but if you can you know— epileptic stuff, autoimmune stuff, anxiety, mood stuff, the CBD for sure. THC more on the—if the CBD is not working and you need the pain or you have a lot of the nausea stuff that may be better.
Evan Brand: Yup. I mean with the THC, I don’t—I mean I’m sure there’s tons of people that still combust, but you really don’t even have to anymore. There are so many different drops and tinctures and potions and such that you don’t have to burn. You don’t have to burn the herbs anymore. And people don’t want to get high, too. So you could do like a 20% CBD like a 1% THC and you’d probably feel really good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I hate the feeling of being high. I’ve only done it a few times in my life, but I’m tired and I just get the munchies. I’m fatigued and I just get really hungry. It’s like I don’t need that. I want to be energized and alert. And I think a lot of the negative studies on marijuana, too, is number one, you really have to make sure you’re not getting pesticide exposure.
Evan Brand: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you have to kind of faired out the burning and the incineration of the leaf.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think if you pick, take those two components out, I think you’ll see a lot of those confounding variables showing negative results in those studies in proof.
Evan Brand: For me, a vaporizer change my life. When I had IBS, the only thing before I knew about by diet changes that help me was a vaporizer. It would slow down my bowels since I was having so much loose stool. It would regulate the bowels better stomach cramps, stomach pains would go away so I had a lot of hands-on experience— super helpful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Go ahead, I’m sorry.
Evan Brand: I just have to say, I don’t vape anymore currently. One is it’s impossible to find a good source in Kentucky. Now, if I go to Colorado and I could find some good organic, high-quality, I’m gonna take a sample, that’s for sure. But for me, I just— I can’t find a good source here. So I do stick with the—the CBD drops, which is legal, too. You know, it’s another thing. It’s— it’s legal in all 50 states, the CBD is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And uhm—just kinda –I think a lot of marijuana, maybe not the CBD, because that’s more the— the non-psychoactive. I think a lot of marijuana is used you know, to cover-up emotional stress uhmm—you know to the kind of numb yourself out from whatever’s happening in your life. So we just gotta make sure that you’re not using it to avoid reality, so to speak. But there is a lot of drugs out there that are very dangerous and have a lot of side effects and kill a lot of people. So if we’re choosing marijuana over these drugs that kill a lot, I will always choose the drug that doesn’t have the profile of killing people, right?
Evan Brand: I’ll pick it over alcohol, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: If I had somebody say, “I wanted to drink a bottle wine every night” or “hit the vaporizer, do a couple of drops of a tincture” The alcohol for me is gonna be a bigger problem coz it’s gonna create the leaky gut situation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean if you’re drinking excessively, if you’re having a glass or two and it’s organic, you know, you’re probably fine with that on the alcohol side. But if you’re going you know, four glasses a night and then it’s consistent, yeah, they’ve done studies. I think it was a Giuliani report they looked at like the highest ranked college students in the country and they say you know, what do you prefer, alcohol or marijuana as a drug of choice? And the kids that have the highest grades were choosing the marijuana and their main reason was the hangover. They could wake up the next day and studying, get their work done.
Evan Brand: Makes sense. Let’s see if we have any other on-topic questions here. Do you see any others?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: See here—see, we can find some things that we can connect to our little politician side stepped here.
Evan Brand: Gerald had one, about how do you know if you’re eating too many starchy carbs per week? I— I cycle like it depends on the week and depends on activity level how much I’m gonna do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean it—I think 50 to 150 is a pretty good place for most people to be. And if you’re doing a lot of lifting or a lot of CrossFit, then you may need to go up to 250. So I think, look at your height and weight. If you’re at a really good height and weight, you’re gonna have more latitude. If you’re lifting a lot of weights, I think you can go up to 150 to 200. If you’re doing Ironmans or like you know, those, then you may have to go way higher than that. So I think you really just figure out where your activity level is at. Figure out where your height and weight is right now. 50 to 150’s pretty good. And you earn your carbs. So you exercise more, you—and you’re lifting more weights, you can up your carbs a little more and just try to keep it whole food, you’re gonna be fine.
Evan Brand: Here’s another question about glutamine. Should you take glutamine by itself to repair leaky gut or is it okay to combine with protein?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean glutamine is an amino acid, but if you mean like glutamine and then have real whole food protein, yeah, that’s fine. I mean in my line, we use GI Restore, which has glutamine and a bunch of their healing things and glucosamine and we’ll mix that and add in a drink, take it on an empty stomach and then patients will still have you know, a really good whole foods meal. Or we’ll add in the collagen as well which is very high in glycine. And glycine’s really good for the enterosite healing as well. So you can do either glutamine. I’ll typically only do L-glutamine by itself for patients that are very, very sensitive. We’ll typically add the healing compound in there, you know, the GI Restore, the all the other, licorice, aloe, slippery elm, glucosamine, right? Modify—We’ll all those in together and if that’s causing too much sensitivity, then we will do L-glutamine by itself. But they gotta really be sensitive if that’s the case.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And that’s— I find that pretty rare. The glutamine by itself to me, it just doesn’t move the needle as quick as the combo products like you talk about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Only if there’s an allergy issue. And then, the collagen is great. Glycine’s a really big building block for healthy gut function, too.
Evan Brand: Nice. Bone broth, too. I think that’s another—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That is very high in glycine, too. Yup.
Evan Brand: Cool. I think that was it. There were bunch of other questions, but a lot of these were super off subjects, so I don’t want to distract from the convo too much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So—
Evan Brand: The others—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we kinda hit everything. I want to go off to— you know, off to uhm the kind of the __ James here talks about this just kind of the cost regarding the organic acid test and keeping it low. Typically, if— if you’re trying to keep the cost down with the organics, let’s do the test once a year. You know, do it once a year. Ideally, if you can do it uhm— twice a year, that’s ideal, but if not, you can just do it once a year. That’s kinda your—your best bet kinda just fine-tune your program once a year with the organics. That’s probably the best way to make it more cost-effective.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Gerald said that we guys are the best. Change his life. Hey, Gerald, thanks. We appreciate it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm—Gerald is actually a patient. Glad we could help, Gerald. That’s very good. And one last question, too. Diana talks about doing a podcast on estrogen dominance and progesterone therapy. Hey, you’re kinda—you’re too late. Check out the podcast’s show notes. We did a podcast on estrogence dominance and we talked about progesterone and __ augmentation programs that we do with progesterone therapy, too. So check out that podcast, Diana.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Go on either uh—Go on Justin’s YouTube. That’s probably the best if it’s posted there or to check out his site Justinhealth and just type in estrogen. You should find it either way.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you guys enjoy this right now, the best way you can thank us is give us a thumbs up, post, share on your twitter and/or uhm— Facebook. We love it. We just want to help more people and you notice, it’s a lot of people that are out there podcast people, they either hold information back or all they do is spend oh, you know, 90% of the time promoting their products and affiliates. I think 95% of our time is just free intel. Of course, we got a little plug here and there, but we’re 95% free information because we know there’s too many people out there that need all this info and we’re just gonna be an open book to everyone.
Evan Brand: Yup. Totally. So, we hope it helps. And if you need to reach out, schedule a consult with either of us. For Justin, check out his site. Justinhealth.com You can look up and click the book an appointment button. Myself, same thing. Evanbrand.com Check us out. Stalk us. Study us. Look under every crevice and corner. Read our reviews. We’re here for you. We’re happy to help if you got this issue going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Leave us comments below. Tell us what you like about the podcast and tell us about future podcast that you want to hear. We’re reading them and we get inspired by those comments below. So say, “Hey, I like this about this podcast and I want to hear something about” And tell us that topic we’ll add it to the queue.
Evan Brand: Yes, sir. Good chatting with you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone, have a great day. Take care.
Evan Brand: Take Care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.
Leaky Gut and Autoimmunity – Dr. J. Live Podcast #161
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand dive into a discussion about the link between gut infections and autoimmunity. Gain knowledge about leaky gut, how it occurs in the body and it’s connection to Hashimoto’s.
Explore the different stressors which affect gut health and contribute to a weakened immune system. Learn about Dr. Justin’s 6-hour template, which includes his expert recommendation regarding healing, nutrient and supplements.
In this episode, we cover:
00:34 Leaky Gut and Autoimmunity Connection
04:05 GABA and the Blood Brain Barrier
06:48 Hashimoto’s and Gut Health
12:23 6-hour Template
22:40 Thyroid Health: T3, T4
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hello, ladies and germs! Dr. J in the house. Evan, how we doing, man? How was your Holidays? How’s your Thanksgiving?
Evan Brand: Holidays were great. Let’s dive in. I know we’ve got a short limited of time. But we’re doing this on the fly because this conversation of gut health and gut infections and autoimmunity is huge and hardly anyone is talking about this. Conventional doctors don’t have a clue about the link between gut infections and autoimmunity, so dude, let’s dive right in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That sounds phenomenal. So we talked about in the show, kinda chatting about leaky gut and autoimmunity, which is really important because leaky gut is kind of like one of the primary mechanisms of autoimmunity kinda starting, which is kind of gastrointestinal permeability cells in the gut called the tight junctions. They start to unzip, kinda like you unzip your coat on a hot day and undigested food particles can get in there in this kind of creates this uhm— cascade of reactions call molecular mimicry, where certain food proteins— the surface proteins on these foods are similar to surface proteins of the thyroid or the brain or the pancreas, the beta—the beta cells of the pancreas, whatever. So you have this kind of immune system getting primed to similar proteins in foods which then prime the immune reaction for the immune system. It starts attacking these tissues in the body. So that’s kinda one of the first defenses is this autoimmunity leaky gut, molecular mimicry and that while they gut’s leaky, you have undigested bacterial compounds also getting in there, too. And then kinda just perpetuate and windup that immune system. And then also make it prime to—for other infections that kind of slip in there because the immune system now has weaken. Other infections can slip in. And typically, we’re gonna have a lower stomach acid environment so you’re gonna have less sterility in the stomach coz that low pH really prevents a lot of bacterial and critters from growing. But now that pH is like, you know, it’s like walking over to the dirty picnic tables and normally you spray it down with maybe some bleach. Or let’s say in a healthy version, maybe a really good antimicrobial essential oil. But now, we don’t have that because of the stress from the gut.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Now, Hashimoto’s for example, is probably most common autoimmune condition that we’re going to see and deal with and that probably you guys listening are aware of. Leaky gut has to take place for Hashimoto’s to happen. That’s one of the dominoes that happens. So you’ve got the leaky gut situation. You possibly got the gluten in the diet. You got the immune stress, which could be internal or external. So bad boss, bad spouse, bad relationships, bad job— those are kind of the big dominoes we see. And when you all those up together, that’s how you get autoimmune disease. It’s really just that simple.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then we have people on the live chat here. And again, this is a great reason why you should subscribe to our YouTube channel—justinhealth. Uhm because we have these podcast going live as well and we’ve also incorporated other technology in the background to get a higher quality audio versions. So if you want better audio, you can subscribe to Youtube, but also check out our podcast uhm—Evan Brand, notjustpaleo and then beyond wellness radio myself. So just keep that in the back of your head. And then your question was—I just missed it. We talked about—Oh, yeah! Leaky brain. Leaky brain is connected as well coz we have these live questions coming in. And so we are multitasking like it’s no tomorrow. So leaky brain’s important because we have these called astrocytes or the brain blood or the blood brain barrier which is kind of the interplay between systemic blood and then the passing over to the brain. And we have the cells called astrocytes. And again, same thing, when we have gut lining integrity, it tends to affect integrity of the lungs, integrity of the sinuses, integrity of you know, vaginal wall area, urinary tract. So you have people that have gut issues—gut integrity issues. It almost always can cause sinus issues, brain fog, brain issues, UTI issues, bladder issues, right? So you have all of that mucous membrane barrier, it’s gonna be compromised throughout the body not just the gut. But the guts kind of that first major domino that falls and then everything else tends to follow along with it.
Evan Brand: What you think about the GABA test for the blood brain barrier, where you take like a 500 mg GABA and if it works and you get relaxed, that says you have a leaky brain. Do you agree with that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m not sure I buy that because I’ve seen people that do—that are really healthy and that do well with GABA.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they, you know, symptomatically, they’re doing pretty good. They’re eating well. Again, certain supplement companies have kinda put that out where they have a GABA challenge. They say, “Hey, GABA is this really big amino acid compound and it shouldn’t go through that blood brain barrier; therefore if it does, that means your major blood brain barrier is permeable.” I’m not sure I buy that. I think it’s something to keep in mind, something to try. I have a lot of patient that have gut issues and they’re sick and that use GABA or will only give them GABA and they don’t notice much benefit either.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you know, how do you sparse that? That’s hard.
Evan Brand: I know. Who knows, man. That’s a good question.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone tries to be a little bit trendy and nuance in this functional medicine field.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because they wanna make a name for themselves.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I get that from a marketing perspective, but just looking at the clinical application, I’m not sure there’s ton. But, heck, if you have GABA and you want to try it and you get uh—benefits, that’s great. I notice a little bit of improvement with GABA. Like when I take it, I feel little but relax. I also do that with Ashwagandha as well. I feel it with magnesium. Someone chimed in and asked if magnesium can be taken with Ashwagandha. Yeah, sure. I’ve no problem with that.
Evan Brand: Works great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hope everyone’s listening had a great Thanksgiving, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Tesa wants to know, “Have you reversed your Hashimoto’s, Dr. J, by healing the gut?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, so we have to be careful when we say reversed, right? So have we decrease the inflammation? Have we address underlying issues that made people susceptible to having autoimmune attack? And we—can we lessen those and decrease them to the point where we are no longer symptomatic because we have the inflammation down or quench enough? Yes. I’m just very careful because you know, eyes in the skies and people listening in they’re— they’re looking for that the cure the cure-all word, right? We just got to be careful. We don’t cure anything. We support the body’s ability to—we support the underlying stressors that cause the issue to begin with. And we support the underlying systems that weren’t functioning well. And then the body can start to get these symptoms under control because the symptoms are just a manifestation of the symptoms— the systems not working. Symptoms occur because systems aren’t working. Systems breakdown because of underlying stressors. As functional medicine doctors, we come in, we fixed the underlying stressors, we support the systems that aren’t working and then the body starts to heal itself, right? The body’s on autopilot. We just got to get the stressors in the systems work. If the system’s working, then get the stressors out of the way.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So you had some— you had some gut bugs and things going on, do you care to talk about your story for a minute with the – Hashimoto’s?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I have—I have a low level of Hashimoto’s kinda in the background, I had elevation antibodies TPO and thyroglobulin antibodies and you know, I had some adrenal stress going on. And I just really worked on fixing the gut issues, which I had a handful parasites—Blasto, uhm— yeast, significant yeast overgrowth and H. pylori. Addressing those, fixing nutrient issues to help with the antibodies, fixing the digestion, fixing gut bacteria balance is of course working on stress reduction, sleep, all those important diet and lifestyle things. And again, the antibodies for me are just still slightly elevated, but there they’re in a range where you know, functionally my thyroid is not beaten up to the point where I need any thyroid hormone. My TSH is in a pretty good place and my T3 levels are pretty good. I actually have to go on for test real soon. So, yeah, I mean it’s possible to—to address the stressors and the system dysfunction to the point where you may not— you can call yourself cure. We just won’t call you cure for me, a functional medicine perspective.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Agreed. I need to get my thyroid panel run to. You’ve been pushing me to do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You should.
Evan Brand: I need to do it. I mean you and I both have had these infections. I had H. pylori as well. I had a Crypto, Giardia and yeast and Pseudomonas Aeruginosa. So, you know, that’s a fun thing about Justin and I. We both had all the things that we deal with in the clinic. So when you guys are looking to work with somebody, it’s— to me it’s a lot more honorable if you’ve had somebody that’s been in the trenches themselves, where we had to fix us to keep going to help other people. I think that’s always pretty cool. Uhm— what else I know we would have limited time, but what else should we mention here about kinda this autoimmunity piece, the gut piece. We mentioned the leaky gut, we mentioned some of the triggers just in a roundabout way. So Candida, bacterial infections, parasites, H. pylori, low stomach acid, gluten in the diet, dairy, possibly eggs, other food sensitivities. These could all contribute to that permeation of the gut barrier; therefore, causing the situation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred Percent. So, let me just kind of answer some of the things that you’re talking about while injecting some of the live questions we get. That’s the reason why the show is so unique compared to other shows coz we are off-the-cuff. This is the real deal here. So some patients are talking about having a lot of mucusy stools, right? And uhm— wanting to know where they should go for help, right? Of course, I recommend coming to see either myself or Evan, but typically one, we want to make sure food allergens aren’t driving this, right? Number two, we want to make sure we have enough digestive support on board to help those foods be broken down enough. So if there’s fat maldigestion issues, of course, adding in more bile salts or more lipolytic enzyme, right? Lipase— things like that. Uh— protease—proteolytic enzymes, right? These are all really important. And then, of course, once we can have the deck kinda dialed in, if foods are still a problem even with that, we may make them more palatable. We may go with more crockpot kinda GAP specific carbohydrate kind of eating template, where the foods are just easy—more processed via cooking, they aren’t raw, they are peeled or mashed. We’re decreasing salicylates and phenols and potential gut irritants so those foods can be consumed better. And then, of course, we’re gonna look deeper at the hormones because hormones have a major effect on inflammation and energy. And a lot of people that have gut issues, their guts are inflamed, we have to support the inflammation of the gut lining. And then, the big one is getting rid of the infections.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s where you know, we’re probably go next.
Evan Brand: (laughs) Yes. You’re right. So uh—Cent50 here, who asked the question. Yeah, the loose, mushy stools, I mean that was me. I had Cryptosporidium, I had Giardia, I had H. Pylori, I had bacterial overgrowth. Until my gut issues were addressed, just FYI, I had IBS for 10 or 15 years of my life and conventional doctors had no solutions for my—my stools. And it wasn’t until actually cleared out the infections that my bowels and my stools became normal again. And so, yeah, you got to get yourself tested. Justin and I run several different companies. Uh—stool testing just depending on you know what—what we’re looking at. But, yeah, get a comprehensive stool test. Your conventional doctor may be able to order through your insurance, if you tell them you want diagnostic solutions Lab, it’s unlikely. You probably have a functional medicine guy like us to run it for you. But either way, once you get the diagnostic tool, you can fix this pretty quick.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a lot of healing nutrients. So like, when we work with the patient, we kinda follow that 6-hour template— template that I’ve created over the last decade or so. There’s a lot of ones that are out there— three hours, four hours. In my opinion, a lot of them stink and they’re the wrong order. So the six that I’ve created and began to follow as well, in my opinion, is the exact clinical order which I follow things. So the first hour is removing the bad foods. And again, it’s not cookie-cutter because that maybe just getting someone from a standard American diet to a Paleo template. That may be taking someone from a Paleo template to an autoimmune template. Maybe someone on an autoimmune template and the Paleo template taking them to a GAPs or specific carbohydrate diet or low FODMAP template. I had patient last week who’s been Paleo for three or four years—chronic pain, chronic issues, chronic mood issues, chronic sleep issues. We took him from a Paleo template to an autoimmune-Paleo template and all of the symptoms went away in one week.
Evan Brand: That’s it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is someone that’s like already been on point for a long time and we just pulled out a few foods. So we have those— that kind of progression because you’d be surprised, the smallest things that we do have a huge effect. And it’s like, whoa! you would’ve thought I would have created the awesomeness protocol ever and found a you know, this hidden infection that everyone missed and got rid of it for that kind of improvement to happen. But sometimes it happens, we’re just removing some food. So, first, I remove the foods, second, I replace enzymes, acids, digestive support, bile salts, too. Third hour is gonna be repairing the gut lining. It could be also repairing the thyroid and adrenals and sex hormones, too. Fourth hour is removing infections. That’s where we go after— bacteria, parasites, uhm—fungal overgrowth. Those kinda things. We may even go after co-infections future podcast on that soon enough. Fifth hour, repopulating or reinoculating probotics. Some of these nice and beneficial bacteria. They’re transient. They only hang out for a month or so and pass on. So, getting some of that it in there periodically is helpful. Sixth hour is retest. We want to make sure infections are gone. And maybe even address family members too to make sure they are not being passed back and forth you know, playing hot potato.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Riley asked a question about—he said, “Evan is your IBS completely healed now after addressing anything?” Uhmm—kind of a confusing question about addressing anything. Yeah, I don’t have IBS anymore. I’m infection free, no more H. pylori, no more parasites, no more bacterial overgrowth, no more yeast overgrowth and I feel good and feel completely normal, which was an amazing thing because after so long, you know, it took me to be so long to get here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And with your situation, right? Like if you start eating bad foods again and your immune system got compromised, you may have another critter or two that pops back. You may have some inflammation from the food and such. And then those symptoms, they start coming back, right? So it’s not like a cure, like, “Hey, you have scurvy. Here’s vitamin C.” And then as long as the vitamin C is there, you’re good forever, right? It’s like, “Hey, there may be other stressors that may cause the systems to weaken again and those IBS symptoms start to occur, right?”
Evan Brand: Oh, Totally! Yeah. I mean I could go— I could go out to a restaurant and get some type of contaminated food and all the sudden creates a leaky gut situation. Maybe I pick up a gut bug, maybe I was eating while stressed during a week and I didn’t chew my food good. And then I picked up a parasite and have to start all over again. So, yeah, definitely, you know, you could always backtrack. You’re—you’re never permanently in a good place.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And again, one thing I see out there on Facebook, and I see it marketed, and it’s– I have to call—I’m not gonna call anyone out directly—
Evan Brand: No, come on. Do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll call out the concept. But lots of people, they’re like, “You gotta heal leaky gut. Here’s a gut healing program.”
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you look at it, a lot of times, you know, it’s bone broth or just a lot of healing nutrients and a lot of probiotics, right? And maybe a little diet change. But if we go look at the six hours, what are they really doing? They’re doing the third hour, maybe a little bit of the first, maybe a little bit of the second, maybe a little bit of the fifth, right? They’re kinda skipping around. They don’t have a system and how it’s being integrated a lot of times. And I would say 99% of the time, it ignores going after and getting the infections fixed. Totally ignores it. Because you know, these people are recommending a general program to like thousand people at once in a huge kind of a webinar kind of style, right? Well, how do you get all the types of testing and customize everything in that format? You can’t. So it’s a very general kinda overview approach. And in my opinion, it’s going help some people, which I think is great. It’s admirable. But it’s also gonna a miss a lot of people and those people that don’t get help may lose faith in functional medicine or say, “This is not for me.” So I’m just kinda calling that out because think about it, right? If the root cause of what’s going on is an infection component and you’re doing let’s say the first, second, third, fifth alright but you’re not getting rid of the infection. Well that’s like me giving you this healing aloe, right? You get a sunburn, you come back from the beach, I give you this aloe, right? The underlying cause of the sunburn is the— is the sun. And then you go back out the next day and you get sunburned again and I just give you more aloe. That’s the equivalent of what a lot of these people are doing. Well, just have some more bone broth, have some more of glutamine, have some more of this healing compound for your gut lining. So we got to get to the root cause. A lot of people are just being very general out there. And you know, the listeners of our show will get it and say, “Hey, I see that the missing piece there.” And that’s why we have those six hours that way coz then you can look at it and you can say, “Hey, this is a really specific way we go about addressing things here.”
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said, man. And that’s the food is medicine, people. And we love the food as medicine people, but that’s why you know, we pursued functional medicine because the food is just the first step, right? It’s just one pillar of the house. It’s not gonna hold the house by itself as a single column. And also, I want to mention the order—the order of operations. If somebody just go straight to bone broth and probiotics and L-glutamine, that’s the wrong order. And sometimes people get worse. They’ll come to us and say, “Oh, Justin and Evan—“
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: “I took XYZ probiotics coz I heard it on a podcast or a blog and I felt terrible and I had a flare up of my condition. Can you explain what happened?” Yes, if things are just terrible in the gut,. sometimes you have to hit the reset button. You can’t immediately just add in all these probiotics and expect it to work. Sometimes we have to fix the balance first and eradicate the bad guys before the good guys can come back in. So that’s why the order of operation is just a second when Justin said it’s so important. And this may explain why you’re spinning your wheels even though you’re all—you’re doing everything about the Paleo gurus are saying to do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We just want to make sure everyone’s educated. I mean, we have some people out here, they’re chiming about, “Hey, I really want a functional medicine doctor but I don’t have the—the money for it.” Well, guess what? The best thing that you can do right now is be listening to our podcast coz all this information is free.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’re providing tens and thousands of dollars for free information off of people and I get messages all the time. “Hey, made a couple of these changes or recommendations and my autoimmune condition for 10 years is gone.” Right? I didn’t cure him. I promise. I didn’t cure him, right? The body just heals itself, right? We got to say that as our disclaimer. But that’s you know, what’s that worth. When someone is you know, seeing a rheumatologist for 20 years on lots of expensive medication that’s tearing up their gut and their body and creating more symptoms than they’re actually helping. What’s that worth? So just utilize the pickup as much of the free intel as much as possible. And then you know, allocate some savings or HSA or flex spending. So if you want to dig in deeper, that’s an option. But utilize as much of the free stuff as possible because the diet is the foundation.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 50% is gonna be the diet so work on that first. Once you max that out, and you’re seeing some decent results, then you’d want to go in deeper. You can reach out, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And you can contact likely so. You can contact your conventional doc and try to get some stuff run through insurance. But it’s likely that they don’t have accounts with these functional labs and they likely just aren’t going to do it. Fut if you’re really lucky, you’ve got a really good M.D., you may be able to push push push push at least get the lab so you have the data. Now what you do with the data? Well then maybe that’s where you come to a functional medicine guy that can help in terms of creating a protocol. But getting the data should not be impossible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And a lot of functional medicine docs that do a podcast or websites, I find that they take information, they wrap it up and they try to make people feel so confused where they walk away from the podcast or the video, being like, “What the hell just happened? What I do now ?” And they walk away feeling less certain. I want to make sure no one walks away from any podcast or video I do, gaining more certainty. And at least walking away with one action item that they can add into the repertoire of whether it’s a lifestyle or a supplement or just a different perspective on the6 hoir healing so they get better and they feel more confident.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I watch a couple of functional medicine videos like over the weekend and they were like hour-long videos I made it through 10 minutes. And I thought, “This is not gonna help me at all.” So I decided to turn it off. So let’s do it, let’s do our action steps and summary here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So of course, we have our six hours, right? So everyone listening kind of our general feedback is gonna be a Paleo autoimmune template to start. And again, depending on where you’re at, that maybe really a lot of— really overwhelming for you, cutting out grains, legumes, dairy and primarily having healthy fats, proteins, uhm more veggies and fruit instead of starch. And having healthy fats like you know, if we’re doing a Paleo, maybe a little butter or ghee. If we’re going fully AIP, no nuts, no seeds, no dairy. Just coconut, Olive oil, may be avocado oil, some healthy animal fats. And that will be a good starting point for people. And then again, an AIP or an SCD or autoimmune diet, again, I’m just kinda laying out the Paleo template to start coz that’s probably the easiest buy in without pre qualifying anyone. I would say that after that, at least getting some digestive support going there. And again, you know, the ones that we formulated, we recommend the most coz we’ve put our stamp of approval. High-quality HCl or enzymes. In my line, it’s HCl supreme or enzyme synergy or I’ll add in the liver supreme for extra bile support for digest energy. And Evans line—Evan has a similar products as well. Uhm— so that’s a good starting point there. And then seeing where you’re at, I think is the next step coz there may be infections, there may be other testing that has to go in deeper. So I think if you can get that, that’s number one. And then I think if you can just make sure the hydration component and the sleep component is dialed in next, that’s a good second step. And that gives most people of really good you know, path to go down and if people are listening, they’ve already done that and they’re like, “what’s next?” well, that’s where I think you’d want to reach out and do a little bit more testing because that’s what I think the infection component and/or the hormone component and/or the nutriend malabsorption component from the infection could be the next vector we’d really have to put up in our sites, so to speak.
Evan Brand: I’m gonna address one comment here and then I’ll bring up a question then we could uh—we could wrap it up. Leslie mentioned the diet’s the foundation which kinda sucks no more pigging out in the middle of the night. The good thing is that could be related to infections. I mean for me, for example, when I had parasites, I would get these food cravings that just didn’t make sense and it wasn’t me. It’s these bugs. They are stealing your nutrients, they want food so they’re cannibalizing your muscle tissue and when you’re eating, they’re messing up your ability to digest especially coz I had H. pylori. My stomach acid levels were lower. I was basically hungry all the time and I was losing weight. Getting to like a scary point of weight loss. So really, the diet is not too hard once you just address your gut bugs, that— the whole like binging type thing on food, it really doesn’t happen once your gut is healed, once your adrenals and your thyroid are helped out and your blood sugar’s more stable. It’s not an issue. I mean you could fasted for a long time and feel stable. You shouldn’t have to get hungry or go on a crisis stage. Justin, a question for you. Uh—some doctors say T3 doesn’t matter; they don’t test it on Thyroid labs. The person’s taking T3 now slowly increasing. Would you be lowering T4 when adding this?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I would typically be adding more than likely a T4, T3 put together so there’s gonna be a combination of both. Most doctors don’t care about uhm—T3 because the major pharmaceutical companies, Abbott’s the big one, that has a patent on Synthroid is a synthetic T4. It’s easier to monitor uhm— giving a T4 the half-life’s five days, so it’s really easy. It’s not like a T3, which could potentially have more side effects. Uhm—and it’s patentable, right? It’s the basically tetraiodothyronine with the sodium salt on it. So that’s how they get the patent to it. Uhm—again, they don’t m__ it because that’s just not what they do. They give you the T4, they get the TSH back in range. All your thyroid symptoms could still be present. Cold hands, cold feet, anxiety, mood issues, hair thinning, you know, gut here fitting things you know, gut stuff, constipation all could still be there, but if the TSH is in range, they’re happy. They checked off the list, you’re gone. So that’s where you got a dig in deeper. You got a look at the T4, T3 conversion. You got to look at the autoimmunity. You got a look at the nutrients. You gotta look at the adrenal conversion, the gut conversion connection and the liver detox conversion connection, too.
Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Should you ignore TSH? No. It’s definitely worth factoring TSH in. You just don’t want to use that as the end-all be-all only marker. But you— but when you have the free T3 and the reverse T3, the TPO, the TG antibodies kinda all the stuff we run, the TSH makes a lot more sense when you got a full picture.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We like to keep TSH in the equation and look at sometimes people come in with the TSH that’s perfect, but their T4 T3 conversion sucks. And then what do you do? You know when you’re treating the TSH or are you treating the actual patient? So we’ll try to increase thyroid hormones, see if symptoms change and we’ll try to support HPT access communication with specific herbs. And of course, stress modulation and getting infections— getting rid of infections coz that can really mess up the HPT access, the Hypothalamus Pituitary Thyroid connection.
Evan Brand: Yup. For sure. Uh—Leslie and a couple other comments about you know, where to go next? Well, I mean, you know, if people may say, “Oh, we’re biased.” But the answer is get tested. Our philosophy is “Test, don’t guess.” So if you’re confused, you’ve got symptoms that don’t make sense, get tested. That’s the first step. You can look at adrenals, thyroid, gut, get all the puzzle pieces laid on the table. That way you’re not just buying random supplements that you might not actually need. We’ve seen so many people with 20 and 30 supplements that they’re taking and they still feel terrible. And we cut that down to five supplements because it’s based on labs and all of a sudden people get better. So you know, save up your money for that. Maybe you don’t go buy the next newest supplement you hear about. Maybe you— you focus on investing into some testing first.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.
Evan Brand: And you can check it out on Justin’s site. It’s Justinhealth.com You can look at the supplements, the labs on there. Same thing on my site, Evanbrand.com and we’re happy to help. So, feel free to reach out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And also, couple of people asked about Dr. Gundry’s The Low Lectin Protocol. I think it’s the plant paradox. Again, my thing is if you’re just going to a Paleo template, you’re gonna cut a lot of those lectins out. If you actually cook some of the plants, some of the starches, some of the vegetables and lower the lectins even more, if you still have a lot of gut issues, upgrading it to an autoimmune protocol, you decrease lectins more. If we still have issues and we can move to a specific carbohydrate or GAPS protocol and we decrease lectins even more. So it just depends on where you’re at cooking knocks a great chunk of that out and just going to a Paleo template, where we’re cutting out grains, legumes, dairy and focusing more on non-starchy veg, uhm— lower glycemic, low sugar fruits and safe starches that aren’t grain-based, you’re gonna have a huge effect and grains, where most of the lectins and irritants come from. So again, that— my opinion matches people making things a little bit more complicated than they have to be.
Evan Brand: Marketing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: I mean, he’s done a good job that book is spread.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It has gone viral. Everyone asked me about it all the time. I can’t get a go of a— one day without a patient asking me about it. So I have to follow it. I think I found it on fast reads on Amazon. So I got a—like uhm—abridged version of it that I’m siphoning through.
Evan Brand: Nice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve got a couple of services where they do these summaries. And it’a great. I mean I get 90% of the information.
Evan Brand: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Suck it up in a half hour and I’m like, “Oop, got it!” That’s it. On to the next one. Well, any other questions you wanted to answer here, Evan?
Evan Brand: I think that’s everything. I think that’s all we can—we can chat on today and we’re gonna do a podcast soon on co-infections. We’re gonna talk about Lyme, Bartonella and Babesia Uh—Justin and I, I mean, we’ve literally got the books like right here that we’re—we’re diving into. We wanna make sure we’re the most educated and current up-to-date with our information before we broadcast to you guys. So make sure you hit subscribe on Justin’s YouTube channel while you’re at, hit subscribe. And uh—we’ll be back again soon.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And one last thing. Patient asked here—person asked here on the chat list, uhm—“How do you—how do you choose your functional medicine doctor? How do you trust them?” He said, “I can’t trust them. How do I choose them?” Well, number one, I think they should have some kind of content out there whether its video, audio and/or blog post where you resonate with their information. Like their philosophy, their information, you should resonate. I find most patients are the biggest reason why they don’t get better is because, number one, compliance, and number two, they’ve been burnt and the past or they failed in the past and therefore they’re kind of priming their subconscious to fail again. So they don’t follow through and they’re off to the next one other, you know, they’re making a 180 move in can’t see someone else because some little thing happened. They’re not following through enough. So I think keeping—one, making sure you choose someone based on their philosophy and the information and making sure you resonate at an emotional level and just a logical level. Here’s the plan, generally speaking, right? And then number two, making sure you’ve given enough time and then follow through uh—for it to work.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. I’ll address— address this last question, then we’ll roll here. Uh—Is it common to have to go through a few rounds of infection killing protocols? Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can.
Evan Brand: You can. It took me a couple of rounds to go through, some herbs to knockout things coz I have multiple infections. When you’re trying to kill five or six or seven things at once, yeah. I can’t take multiple rounds. Why is that? Depends on the person’s immune system health or stress levels, how long they’ve had infections, the amount of damage that’s there, how much inflammation is there, are they sleeping well, do they have a good diet. You know, there’s million factors to answer why that— why that could be. Hope that helps.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.
Evan Brand: Andrea is asking a question about his father’s prostate cancer. PSA levels are rising rapidly. Can we cast opinions or advice?
Evan Brand: I can’t. Justin?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s about thyroid, it’s about uhm— prostate issues?
Evan Brand: Yeah. Prostate. Prostate cancer this drug—Enzalutamide had been recommended for father’s prostate cancer PSA levels are rising rapidly. Can you cast opinions or advice?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let me describe– I have one formula here that’s been helpful. Yeah. I have one compound here that I’ve been using here, just I had a couple of supplement companies reach out and I’m using it. It’s the pomegranate extract, and the flower pollen extract and its cranberry extract. So cranberry, pomegranate and flower pollen. This is an excellent support. Lot of research behind those extracts as well. Lycopene is phenomenal, getting adequate levels of selenium 200 mics a day is phenomenal, enough zinc as well is phenomenal saw palmetto’s great. These are excellent compounds that help. Lycopene is phenomenal as well. Again, the diet has to be in place. You want to get the lifestyle things going and again, these things don’t grow overnight. They probably taken decades to kind of move. So coffee and Coffee enemas may also be helpful to kind of early push detox in a faster more acute kind of way. But some couple of compounds that I mentioned are phenomenal and wouldn’t hurt getting them on board in the meantime.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And look at my podcast I did with the lady named Dr. Nasha Winters.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: She did a book that’s called, “The Metabolic Approach to Cancer” She— she had cancer herself and she’s been holistically supporting people with cancer for about 20 years. So uh— look up Nasha Winters and uh look up her book and you could implement some strategies there hopefully.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, get the insulin levels under control. Make sure fasting insulin is five or below at least. That’s important because insulin is gonna cause a lot of cells to grow and then also making sure xenoestrogen exposure is mitigated, right? Don’t drink out of plastic bottles, avoid pesticides and GMO’s and glyphosate and Roundup. These are chemicals that you’re gonna get from conventional foods. Obviously, eat organic, right? Pasteur-fed meats. Again, these things— I shouldn’t have to repeat them, but I just can’t assume that everyone knows these stuff.
Evan Brand: They don’t. Not everyone does. So, yeah, keep repeating it and keep preaching. And I think that’s all the questions. So we did— we did really good. That was fun.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I heard a quote back. It’s a quote from the 1940s, where Joe DiMaggio was interviewed and they said that Joe said, “We noticed that you sprint on and off the field every single time at full speed no matter what.” And he said, “Well, there may be someone coming out to see me for the first time ever that seeing me play the way I’m playing and I wanna play at 100% every time.” And then maybe some people that are coming out for the first time seeing us play here, and we want to make sure that they get that information that we may assume that other people uh— may have, right? The equivalent will be like us jogging on the field, so to speak, if we just assume that.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Well, reach out if you need help. Justinhealth.com You can schedule with Justin. Evanbrand.com if you’d like to schedule consults with us. We should have some availability in the next 3 to 6 weeks or so. So just take a look and we’re happy to help you soon as we can.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, by the way, I’m adding in the Mimosa Pudica as well. So I’ll be reporting back on that in the next couple weeks. I think you as well Evan. So we’ll chat about that. Again, I just got that in stock. That’s the Para-1 in my store. I think you have it in your store as well. So, we’ll put that in the show links, too. So that’s a cool new herb that we’re working on. We have a couple other herbal compounds in the mix that we’re using for different types of co-infections that we’re researching uhm—in the background, too.
Evan Brand: Awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, Evan, great chatting with you, man. You have an awesome day. We’ll chat soon.
Evan Brand: You too. Take care
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Fibromyalgia Natural Solutions – Dr. J Live Podcast #159
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand discuss about Fibromyalgia including its cause and symptoms. Learn how some of the symptoms connected to it such as anxiety, depression, IBS, memory problems are also seen in other health conditions.
Listen as they talk about some of the viruses, infections, gut health, heavy metals, thyroid and adrenal imbalances as possible contributing factors or underlying issues leading to unfavorable health symptoms. Gain some valuable information regarding natural solutions and lifestyle changes that you can do to combat these symptoms.
In this episode, we cover:
02:15 Fibromyalgia Symptoms
03:48 Viruses and Infections
07:20 Gut Health
10:31 Adrenal Issues
13:19 Heavy Metals
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s Dr. J here in the house. Evan, how we doing today? Happy Monday!
Evan Brand: Hey, man! Happy Monday to you. Life is good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We had a little technical difficulty here. But we are rolling. The show must go on. So, any any updates for me here that you want to bring to my attention before we dig in and get dirty?
Evan Brand: Well, I’m just excited. I’m excited to talk with you about fibromyalgia. This is one of those things in that category like IBS where the conventional doctors—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand:.. give people diagnosis and then they just end up with drugs in their pockets and they don’t have any real success. And people struggle for years and years and years, they end up with these other symptoms that come along with fibromyalgia like anxiety or depression or IBS. And once again, conventional Docs, they just don’t really have a high success rate with this issue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent agree. And fibromyalgia is one of these interesting types of diagnoses. Basically you have to have uh—central allodynia pain, which is kind of like this uh— pain that may be true like 11 different random spots of the body. So they look for these different pain, tender spots, shoulders, chest, hips, back. And they are looking for like at least 11 out of the 17 or so spots. And if you have it, great, you have fibromyalgia, right? Coz basically what is a central allodynia? That means your nervous system is so hypersensitive that it’s dectecting, you know, you rubbing like this, just things that shouldn’t cause pain. It’s sensing that it’s pain. And that’s the biggest issue coz the nervous system is so upregulated, it’s like having an antenna that’s so hypersensitive that it’s picking up stations uhm— that shouldn’t be picking up. And it’s the same kinda thing. Your nervous system is an antenna that’s picking up all these nociception or pain sensation where it shouldn’t be. So we want to get to the root cause of why that is. Go ahead.
Evan Brand: Yeah. There is uh—conventional drug that a lot of people end up on. The Lyrica, which I’m sure you’ve heard of.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: Huge pricing commercials for it. And I’ve had people taking that and they just don’t notice much and then sometimes the side effects, maybe not without drug, buy any of the drugs, can be worse than the actual thing that you’re trying to fix into the first place. So that’s just— it’s scary because when you want to get a root cause answered, you’re not gonna get it unless you start running some of these functional medicine testing that we’re talking about. So I just have a list of symptoms I wanted to read that could come along with the fibromyalgia. So that could be anxiety, that could be concentration and memory problems, depression, fatigue, headaches, irritable bowel syndrome. Now, that sounds like a lot of other things that we need to talk about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And here’s the thing, right? A lot of people may have gluten sensitivity or hypothyroidism or heavy metal issues or gut microbial imbalances, the issue is that some people may manifest with Hashimoto’s. Some may manifest with fibromyalgia symptoms who have a lot of the central allodynia pain. So it is interesting because some people, they can have the exact same core underlying issue, but have a totally different diagnosis. And all of diagnoses is a constellation of symptoms that are typically put into one category, right? The chronic pain symptoms—that’s gonna be in the fibromyalgia category. Memory symptoms—that’s gonna be in the category. Fatigue symptoms— that could be in the thyroid or adrenal category. Gut issues— depending on where that inflammation is located, that could be in the Crohn’s or Ulcerative Colitis or there’s no inflammation in the tissues that can be in the IBS category like you. So this is where it’s tough because all conventional medicine is tyring to categorize known symptoms in the categories call the “disease”. We are trying to trace it upstream. And the hard part about functional medicine is certain people can have the exact same imbalances and manifest with totally separate diseases. That’s the hardest part people to wrap their heads around.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Let’s go into the viruses. My wife when she had joint pain several years ago, you said, “Evan, the first thing you need to look into is going to be some of the viruses.” And so we got a blood test run on her. She did not show up with Lyme, fortunately, but she did show up with the cytomegalovirus and then also the mycoplasma. Can— so can you speak about those a bit? And how that could be causing joint pain that could get misdiagnosed?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. So there are certain infections like mycoplasma is one of them they can manifest in the joint tissue, for sure. So that’s one of those conditions that an infection can really be driving a lot of that joint pain. And we know certain infections and certain imbalances can manifest with certain symptoms. Like we know that hypothyroid issues, low thyroid function can manifest having low thyroid hormone in joint pain. We also know like infections like mycoplasma can also cause or call the lower thyroid function and then potentially manifest in joint pain. We also know it could potentially manifest in the joints and you know certain antibiotics like Minocycline to help knock it out. We prefer to use some of the herbs coz it tends to be safer on the gut microbiome in the long run, number one. And then with your wife symptoms, we notice that she already had a pretty good diet. And there was a tick bite involved in your wife’s last issues. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: That’s right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so because of that, you know, we were leaning towards, “Hey, let’s just to after the infection and see what happens.” And when we knocked out the infection, everything got a lot better. So that was good to see that.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It was so— it was so it was so easy, too. So simple. Just modify the immune system, all of a sudden things are better. So, if you have fibromyalgia or you have joint pain and general pain stiffness, you gotta make sure you roll those in. So go to your doctor if you’ve got a natural path or functional medicine practitioner, that’s even better. Try to get them to test you for the Lyme, plus the co-infection. So coz like I said she had a negative result for Lyme, but she was positive for these other things, Cytomegalo and the Mycoplasma. So you gotta go look for them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. So, again, any issue any like disease issue, like if you’re someone and we’re focusing on fibromyalgia today because that’s got a certain bit of symptoms that manifest in pain. So if you resonate with that, great. This is going to help you. If you don’t resonate with fibromyalgia symptoms, but you have something else, this podcast is still gonna be helpful because we always trace it back to the underlying imbalances, which can manifest itself in different symptoms. But one thing that’s gonna be uniform across the board is looking at the gut. The gut is really important coz that’s where a lot of your immune system is. 70 to 80% that’s where your body digests and breaks down nutrients, that’s where uhm—your— essentially you digest and break down all the food you’re eating. So if we’ve a bottleneck in the breakdown of our nutrition, we’ve a bottleneck in how our immune system functions, if we have a leaky gut and your immune system’s being overreactive, or if we have an infection there, that can create a lot of underlying stress that may manifest itself in different symptoms. And again, kinda linking it back to fibromyalgia, if you have these chronic pain issues, those 11 kind of places a central allodynia pain to touch, right? Your diagnosed 11 places of pain on your body, at least. And you have the fibromyalgia, the diagnosis, then we definitely have to rule out the gut. And again, here’s a thing that really throws people for a loop is that you can have gut issues and not have gut symptoms – that’s the really hard thing. You may not have the bloating, the gas, the diarrhea, the constipation, the acid reflux, and you may still have a gut issue.
Evan Brand: Uh-hmm. H. pylori we see it every week in the clinic. So if you’ve got H.Pylori, you’ve got that bacterial infection, that’s suppressing HCl production, therefore you’re not digesting your food. So if you’re seen floating stools or you’re seeing undigested food particles in your stool, that could all be adding up to this whole picture of the depression, the anxiety, the fatigue. Maybe even skin issues, too. So maybe you don’t have the fibromyalgia diagnoses, but you’ve got fatigue, depression, anxiety maybe some sleep problems maybe some skin issues. That could all be tied into leaky gut— that intestinal permeability. It could be something as simple as H. pylori or like Dr. Justin Marchegianientioned, it could be H. pylori plus Mycoplasma plus maybe some bacterial overgrowth like the SIBO case or plus parasites, which is something we often talk about, plus fungus. You know, typically it’s not just one thing. Most of the time, by the time people get to us, they’ve been suffering for quite a long time and therefore, there’s usually a handful of things that we’ve got to address. Now on the thyroid, is the pain going away just a side effect of you fixing your thyroid? Like all the sudden thyroid function improves and the pain just goes away. Could it be that simple if that were your biggest root cause?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well 100%. So you can see it quite frequently that just getting someone on some T3, some thyroid hormone can really help because they may be on thyroid hormone, T4, but they’re not able to convert and activate it. So there’s TSH, right? The pituitary hormone that most conventional docs measure to look at thyroid function may look nice and pretty but they’re not making that conversion from T4 to T3. So their T3 levels may be low, and if you come in there with some activated T3, you may start to put some of their thyroid symptoms on remission. Now, we have to understand, from a functional medicine perspective, what’s palliative and what’s root cause. So we have to make sure we actually fix the underlying conversion issues, if it’s nutrient or if it’s inflammationm if it’s gut, if it’s immune. And we also had to fix the underlying nutrient absorption issues, the infections, the autoimmunity, right? So whatever those issues are. So, we kinda understand that there are certain natural medicine things we can do. There are palliative, which are great. And there are certain things like, I think you mentioned earlier about the uhm—your child has a little bit of eczema and you know, putting a little bit of coconut oil in there helps. But you recognize, that’s palliative not root cause. So we try to get to the underlying foods that may be causing it. Same thing in this analogy with thyroid. And thyroid, low thyroid hormone can express itself in about 70 different symptoms—hair loss, fatigue, uhm— brain fog, anxiety, right? All these different symptoms. Also, the pain symptom is one of the.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. And if it’s Hashimoto’s, if it’s an autoimmune thyroid condition, that T3 could help symptoms improve. In this case, you could get more energy, could help reduce pain. But if you haven’t stop that autoimmune attack by addressing infection, supporting the adrenal glands, making sure the diet is dialled in, and you don’t have any foods that are creating antibodies against the thyroid. You know, those are some of the big three needlemovers you got to have on board to fix this thing at the root and not just be stuck on T4 or T3 or combination for the rest your life.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. So we also know that adrenal issues— adrenal imbalance is not necessarily adrenal fatigue, of course, you know, most people in the conventional medical world will hear adrenal fatigue and think adrenal failure like Addison’s disease, okay? Which is valid but we also know that there can be imbalances in cortisol that may not be a full disease failure kind of situation. It may be just lower adrenal cortisol issues, lower DHEA because of HPA axis dysfunction. And if that’s the case, we want to make sure we support that because adrenal, zero adrenal glands produce cortisol, which is your natural anti-inflammatory hormone. And again, people that have chronic pain issues, a lot of times, we put on like COX 2 inhibitors, things like that. Severe pain, of course, Opioids is an Oxycontin, which is a another big issue in itself. But also, Prednisone and Corticosteroid drugs that basically have the ability to knock down inflammation, the problem is, why aren’t your own glands working enough to cover up that inflammation, too? So, if we get the adrenals working better, we can kinda make some of our own homemade Prednisone on our own—our own homemade Corticosteroids to help cut that inflammation down.
Evan Brand: So talk about what happens. Let’s say somebody is on the steroids long-term, that’s also going to affect the adrenals as we’ve seen on some lab results.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It will throw off some of the feedback loop, so will disrupt the HPA axis, that’s the brain talking to the adrenals. That’s that nice feedback loop or that kind of internal thermostat that our body has. So we do have that there that we have to work on because that can affect that thermostat. Uhm—number two, it can really throw off your blood sugar. So taking a lot of synthetic steroids that when we create protocols for a patient, we may use small amounts of precursor hormones like Pregnenolone or DHEA. And these are gonna throw things off in the same way that a drug would. Because these drugs are very, very powerful. They can mess up the feedback loops. But if you’re using a corticosteroid, it can really mess up your blood sugar and in the long run, it can even create osteoporotic situations. It can really thin out the bones. It can really weaken the gut lining because these steroids break things down,right? They’re anti-inflammatory but they are also very catabolic. So it’s great in the short run, right? When we get back on track, but not good in the long run coz it can really mess up our glandular physiology. How that—how our hormonal systems work. And the feedback loops that kinda keep them connected.
Evan Brand: I think it’s worth mentioning heavy metals, too. I don’t think it’s good to be
necessarily the number one cause for most people, but we notice that if there is a gut issue, let’s say somebody does have these gut bugs, they could have a detox problems, too. Just coz their body, their liver is just so overburden. Let’s talk about metals a bit. So could be just amalgam fillings or could be occupational exposure or could be too much of a lower quality or too big of a fish like a tuna that’s causing issues. Let’s talk about that for a minute.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So we can definitely have toxicity issues like Mercury which can be very inflammatory. Mercury also is similar to the halide group so it could fit into the receptor site where Iodine would typically bind in. Fluoride and bromine can also pinch-hit there as well. So that can create a lot of issues regarding that. Mercury can also jam up the mitochondria. I mean feel free and go to PubMed and just type in “Mercury and mitochondrial function” and you’ll see increase in heavy metals can decrease mitochondrial function. And again, as—as glycolysis and our Krebs cycle turns and we have betaoxidation on the flipside, we generate about 36 ATP’s per pump and those ATP’s work is kind of the cellular currency for energy, right? It’s how our body kind of you know, creates energy and you know, has aerobic metabolism to create ATP, which is our body functions and that’s kinda the byproduct of having a healthy metabolism.
But if we go in there and all these gears are moving spitting out all these ATP, which is basically cellular energy, and we messed that up, we throw kind of a monkey wrench into the gearbox, that’s gonna prevent optimal ATP function, which is gonna throw off our energy and our body ability—our body’s ability to function, right? Lower energy is gonna create symptoms. Anytime you have lower energy, you tend to start having brain fog issues, mood issues, fatigue issues, pain issues, sleep issues because energy is the byproduct of a healthy metabolism. So when energy goes, metabolism is going down. And when that’s starts to go, other symptoms tend to manifest as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ve gotta say two things. One is glyphosate. If you’re not 100% organic, make your goal to be a 100% organic as close as you possibly can. I love that people are honest. I had a guy who on his intake form, I asked the question, “What percentage or diet is organic?” He said 0%. I’m like, “Man, you’re getting glyphosate.” We can measure it. We can prove it on a piece paper, but just know if something is not labeled organic, especially your fruits and veggies, assume it’s contaminated with glyphosate. Just like Justin mentioned about Mercury, antibiotics, glyphosate. Those are all mitochondrial killers and so there’s nothing worse that you could possibly do than have glyphosate in your system. Now, fortunately, you can detox it by using the sauna. There’s other methods that we talked about but just make it a goal. Throw out the—you know, go donate or throw out the non-organic stuff. Swap it out. Pay the extra buck. Pay the extra 2 bucks. It’s gonna be much, much more valuable in the long-term and much cheaper in the long term because you’re gonna prevent yourself from having health issues associated with glyphosate toxicity.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. I had a conversation with someone recently that say, “Hey, you you realize organic food doesn’t have any more nutrients than conventional food.” And I said back to them,”Well, it depends.” There are some studies that do say organic food does have more nutrients. I mean there are some people that say that’s there are some studies by Temple University that shows a much higher level in nutrition with organic food than conventional food. I just think it depends on what kind of organic we’re talking about factory farm, you know, big corporations have started labeling things organic. And again, are they gonna have the same high level as a local farm regarding fertilization, you know, rotating the crops. I mean, if you just have an organic farm without pesticides, but you just continue to heat that crop season after season, don’t let it rest, don’t switch spots, and don’t you know, add synergy to the land, right? Some synergy is like, for instance, when the cows pass on their— basically have their manure, their bowel movements, you’re bringing the chickens afterwards to kind of help uh knock out all the grubs, right? Which prevents other animals from coming in. So you can add synergy to the land that helps, number one, increase uhm— fertility to the soil, right? Increases that top soil. But number two, it helps other past and creatures from growing, which can create havoc down the line. And so, in other words, uhmm—some people can really hit that soil hard and decrease the nutrient densities of the organic food. It has less nutrients, anyway. But anyway, so let’s just pretend this person is right. They told me organic food has the same nutrition as conventional food. Alright. Fine. We do know the research is quite conclusive that organic food has less pesticide residue. Of course, coz to be organic, you can’t have pesticides on it. So just the fact that— let’s the nutrient’s density is the same from organic food. While I’m definitely not getting the pesticide exposure, which Evan mentioned earlier with Glyphosate or Roundup. It’s so important. coz there are so many studies on that coming out that it’s very toxic on the body, on the liver, on the gut. And essentially many other places.
Evan Brand: You know, the European Union, they’re successfully banning it. I’ve been trying to keep up with this is much as I can. It looks like glyphosate is seeing the end of the rope in the European Union. I hope something is to follow in the US, but I just don’t think it’s gonna be anytime soon here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree.
Evan Brand: One of the thing I wanted to mention is on the CDC’s website about fibromyalgia, they say that much much much higher rates of ankylosing spondylitis occur with fibromyalgia and Justin and I mentioned this on a mini podcast. That’s an autoimmune condition. And so it sounds like what they’re saying without saying it because maybe they’re not noticing the link, is that this whole thing is likely just a autoimmune issue. The IBS, like you mentioned, the Crohn’s or the Colitis, the Hashimoto’s, like this could all just be autoimmunity at the root. And we’ve just got to go through all of our causes and fix the autoimmune issue and then all of a sudden you can reverse the symptoms.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. And again, there’s like over a 180 autoimmune conditions. So my analogy is anytime you have a physical chemical or emotional stress, or you know, imagine having this fancy pearl necklace, every time you put tight, that’s a physical chemical or emotional stressor in your life. And let’s just say every little spot where that pearl connects to the necklace, they’re not all the same strength. There maybe some part to that chain that are little bit weaker. Think of that as genetic predisposition at work. You’re gonna have certain genetic links in the chain that are going to be a little bit weaker. Now what does that mean to you, as that stress comes on, that part of the chain may be more likely to break than another part. Let’s say Pearl 33 is more likely to break them Pearl three or Pearl four, right? Now, Pearl 33 may be ankylosing spondylitis. And that stressor may be Roundup or could be Hashimoto’s or let’s say Pearl 4 is Hashimoto’s for someone else, right? So think of every little link in that chain as a different disease that could manifest if that link is broken. And where that link you for you, is gonna be based on your genetic predisposition. What we have control over is not pulling that damn chain type. Let it go. Let it relax, right? How do we do that? All of the diet and lifestyle things. Just cutting the Round up out. Eating organic. That pulls the stress off. And getting that good sleep, having good thoughts, fixing your gut, fixing infections, making sure you can digest and break down all that really good food that you’re eating. Get your hormones under control if there’s imbalances there. Does that make sense, Evan?
Evan Brand: Oh, it sure does. I mean, just like you picture a big wall think of like a submarine. You’ve got a 1000 switches in all these red switches are flipped on. We’re just gonna go down the list and just flip all those red switches off, and all of a sudden you turn off, you’ve not pulled the trigger. You’ve got the loaded gun, but we’re just gonna decide not to pull the trigger. People think that like genetic testing is the end-all be-all and “Oh, my gosh! I’m genetically predisposed to X.” It’s like that doesn’t change the protocol at all. That just means you need to be even more diligent. If your family had a history of this condition or other conditions, you just have to be more diligent. That doesn’t mean you’re toast. That doesn’t mean you’re definitely going to get XYZ disease or condition. That just mean you got pay attention. You’ve gotta make sure you’ve got all the pieces going in your favor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I pretty much work with the genetic stuff. I don’t get so hyper fixated on it. I just assume the worst for everyone. And that way, we’re making the changes in hydration, with sleep, with water, with toxicity, with gut. We’re not gonna give synthetic folic acid. We’re gonna give super high quality methylated B vitamins. We’re just making that assumption for everyone because I can’t be hurt by making that assumption in that direction. If I make it the opposite direction and say, “Hey, it’s okay. You probably don’t have a folate issue. I’m gonna save some money and put some crappy synthetic folic acid in my multivitamin instead of high-quality activated folate. Then I can go wrong, right? I may save a little bit of money but because we’re interfacing with our patients daily and weekly, we know that we’re better off rolling the dice in favor of there being an issue with that. So we always have the higher quality nutrients in there to cover our butts.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And I had a a woman who emailed me this morning she said, “Evan, I had a reaction to gluten. Do you think it’s time that I go get tested for celiac?” And I told her, “It’s better cheaper and likely safer just to assume that you’ve got a massive allergy to gluten,” Then you just need to stay way because really, going to the gastroenterology process where they make you eat— what is it two slices of bread for like a week or two and then they cut out a piece of your intestine to try to see if all those cilia where destroyed or flattened. And then a lot of times, there’s even false negatives there. So you could do all that work. Destroy your body, create inflammation and then say, “Oh, it says negative.” It’s like just stay away and be more diligent. Don’t tell people that it’s a preference. Just tell it— tell people at a restaurant it’s a gluten allergy. Make they change their gloves. And you’re gonna be much safer as opposed to waiting for that diagnosis. So that’s kinda what my message is. If you have these symptoms, maybe you’re not been officially diagnosed with fibromyalgia, but you’ve got these symptoms, you’ve got pain and the sleep and fatigue. Just go ahead and think, “Okay, maybe I’ve got XYZ but now I’ve just gotta start working on all these big pieces we talked about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And someone’s chiming in here on the YouTube live here, chat saying that uhm—their local farmer told him it’s certified organic, allows them to spray toxic pesticides two times a year. Not sure what kind of certification that is. Typically, the USDA certification’s pretty good. The fied has to be—the land has to be for three years without pesticides to even get that certification. So I’m not sure if we’re talking about the same USDA certification, number one. And a lot of farmers they’ll use other compounds that tend to be a little less toxic to help with spring. So like for instance we have our property done which had to use probiotic spray and we tend to use essential oils. And again, there may be chemicals in there, of course, but they may be harmonious and have less toxic burden. I’m more worried about the toxicity of the pesticides. And let’s say you bought an organic food that was, you know, in one of these farms that was spray twice a year, well, isn’t that gonna be better than a farm that’s sprayed weekly?
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I’m kinda like good-better-best. Hey, if I’m gonna cheat or if I have a choice option between something that was spray weekly versus twice a year, I’m still gonna go with twice a year because that toxicity burns is gonna be good. Also, we can just utilize the Clean 15 and the dirty dozen. Great, if we’re gonna buy a food that’s conventional or somewhat conventional with pesticides. Let’s look at the Clean 15 and see the foods that have less pesticide residue and avoid the dirty dozen and/or just get a really good uhm— vegetable or fruit wash that you can wash off some of the external pesticides at least.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And some of the regulations under the USDA, there’s a difference between 100% organic and just certified organic. So, obviously, the best thing to do which is contact a local farmer, which is what I do. I buy some bison meat and other products locally. And I know that they don’t ever use chemicals ever and if they do have to use chemicals, they’ll tell you. And they’ll say, why, what happened how much, what did they actually use. So if you just look up local harvest and go look up type in your ZIP Code, your location, go find some local people and just talk with them. That way, you don’t have to guess anymore whether something’s actually legit from the grocery store. I still go to the grocery, but I try to source other things outside where I can check the person’s hand. It’s just a lot more viable experience that way.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And again, we just have to do your best, right? Sometimes we don’t have the best options you know, when we’re traveling or we’re going out to eat. But if we can control the 80 to 90% when we’re home and we’re in our house and the foods that we choose in our area, that’s gonna be the most important thing. Also, when you’re healthy, you get a little bit more wiggle room; when you’re chronically sick, you don’t. So if you’re chronically sick, then you really got to be careful and make the best decision possible and uhm— if you’re not, then 10 to 20%, I’m totally okay with. And if you’re going to get exposed to things, activated charcoal is a great option uhm— taking some extra detox support may be helpful, too. So all that’s really good if you know you’re gonna be getting exposed to not so good things.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Take in your enzymes, too. Take in your acids, your enzymes. You and I both use enzymes that are gonna contain special ones that helps. So if you do get to it. exposed to gluten, that can help reduce the flareup. If you are sensitive, you are react to it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then James here, talks about uhm— his fatigue still lingers daily, can’t shake it. Thyroid tested good with me, uhm—Modafinil works great and gets me to the day. And Modafinil or Provigil aspirin is a big fan of it. Not a huge fan long term. I mean I think it’s not fixing any of the underlying issues. So the diet helps I mean I would look more at the adrenals, I’d look more at the mitochondria. I forget your specific case, James, I know you’re doing good for a while. So if you just had a backward slide recently, we’d wanna chat and figure out what underlying stressors have creeped up or make sure the infections are gone, or make sure the mitochondria are functioning as optimal as possible. So I wanna look a little bit deeper. I’m fine, though, using Modafinil Provigil punctuated time frames, you know, a work deadline comes up, major stressors you know, you have to induce some extra stuff on the weekend with your family or work stuff, then fine. Take that to really upregulate your body but just keep in mind there’s something deeper we got a look at. And just you know, things like sleep and things like hydration and people forget those all the time.
Evan Brand: Yup. Very simple but sometimes the most simple stuff moves the needle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean Daniel talks about here, uh— talks about what can cause jellylike lumps in the semen sometimes painful to pass. Well first off, I would do like a urine analysis first, just to make sure there’s nothing, no UTI your uhm—you know, nothing that’s kidney or bladder base. Make sure there’s no infections in the piping, so to speak. Uh—again, I would also rule out epididymitis. Make sure there’s no infections in the epididymis. There could be a bacterial issue that’s just causing these uh— the semen to kinda agglutinate or stick together. And also, even just run a sperm analysis. Just to make sure this— the semen are actually alive and it’s not a whole bunch of dead semen uh— in there as well. So, I would look there first. If the diet’s good, if everything else is good, I would just make sure any type of infections and that urinary area are also clear too. E. coli, those kinda things.
Evan Brand: Awesome. Well, we gotta wrap up. Both of us gotta get back to our calls, but we hope you guys enjoy the show and leave us questions. You can leave us questions in the future. So if you didn’t catch this live, go to Justin’s YouTube channel. Go on his video, write in your questions, we’ll try to answer as many as we can or will save those for future show. And then same thing for topics. If you have topics that you want us to address, please put them on there. And if we need to reach out for a consult, check out Justin’s site. It’s Justinhealth.com You can schedule a consult. If you wanna schedule a consult with me, check out my site EvanBrand.com and we are happy and willing to help you. So please reach out if you’re suffering around the world, just phone in and Skype consults make it easy for us to help you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And check us out on our podcast channels, too. We’re trying to do our videos here on YouTube, but we’re also trying to record everything in higher-quality audio. So, if you want to hear us in some higher quality audio, check out our podcast channels. Again, if you go to Evan’s site, EvanBrand.com or my site, Justinhealth.com click on the podcast and you can subscribe to get updated, audio as well. Anything else you wanted to add, Evan?
Evan Brand: I think that’s it. Awesome and Ross, yeah, Mastic Gum is great for H. Pylori. Awesome show today, Evan. Great as always. Appreciate your energy and your insights and let’s chat real soon.
Evan Brand: Likewise, man. Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take Care. Bye now.
Evan Brand: See you.
Reversing Autoimmune Disease
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
When your immune system response can’t distinguish between your body and any toxins you’ve ingested, the result is called ‘systemic inflammation:’ when your body attacks its own tissues. Your body might intend to fight off an infection or an allergen, but instead points the attack at your joints or your thyroid, or maybe even your whole body. This is how autoimmune conditions, such as arthritis, celiac disease, thyroid disorders, and lupus, begin to grow.
Causes of Autoimmune Disease
Autoimmune diseases typically stem from one of the following causes:
Genetic Predisposition: While your genes alone do not condone you to a fate of autoimmunity, having a family history is a good indicator that you should be proactive in preventing an autoimmune disease from developing.
The pathogenesis of autoimmune disease is multifactorial, meaning, just because you may have inherited the genes for an autoimmune disease, it does not necessarily mean you will develop one. Studies have shown that some combination of genetic and environmental factors are what ultimately cause or prevent autoimmunity from developing. In this article, we are going to break down some of the ways to prevent this from happening.
Leaky Gut: Food allergies, toxins in our food and environment, stress, gut dysbiosis and an inflammatory diet are causes of leaky gut. Leaky gut occurs when the gut lining is compromised, allowing large food particles and toxins to leak into the bloodstream, causing inflammation and autoimmunity.
Autoimmune conditions affect at least 50 million Americans, as well as millions more worldwide. However, autoimmune disease seems to exist almost exclusively in first-world countries. This is possibly linked to the diversity of the microbiome: in developed countries, we are regularly exposed to antibiotics and consume genetically modified foods laden with pesticides. These contribute to reducing the diversity of our microbiomes. Those in less developed countries have a wider range of gut flora, and don’t suffer from the same autoimmune diseases.
Trauma: Overwhelming stress or trauma, whether it be physical or emotional, such as a difficult break up, the death of a loved one, or a car accident, is enough to send your body into overdrive and trigger autoimmunity. The immune response due to physical stress (injury) causes profound inflammation, which is known to trigger autoimmune disease.
Up to 80% of people note that they experienced uncommon emotional stress before the onset of their autoimmune disease. Stress-related hormones are presumed to cause immune dysregulation, resulting in autoimmune disease. Stress can be responsible for more than just the onset of autoimmunity, it also feeds continues a vicious cycle of feeding the condition.
Prevention and Reversal of Autoimmunity
- Eliminate any foods causing allergies or sensitivities. Here is a breakdown of what an elimination diet entails. Basically, by eliminating foods that are potential allergens, you’ll learn what your body feels like when you aren’t ingesting inflammatory foods. Then, you add back foods gradually and are able to pinpoint which foods are triggers for your autoimmunity or other issues you may have been experiencing.
- Heal your gut to reduce inflammation. Your gut houses 70% of your immune system. If you don’t have a healthy gut balance, your immune system will be severely affected, contributing to autoimmune disease. An elimination diet can help you learn which foods are serving you and which are hurting your gut.
- High quality probiotic supplements, eating and drinking probiotics in the forms of kombucha and sauerkraut, and drinking bone broth will all support a healthy gut!
- Proper vitamin D levels. Research shows a strong correlation between vitamin D deficiency and autoimmune disease, cancer, and other serious diseases. This article studies the link between vitamin D and autoimmune disease in depth. Getting time in the sun, as well as supplementing with quality vitamin D, are ways to reverse and reduce risk of developing autoimmunity.
- Glutathione, the “master antioxidant,” helps your body detox any toxins you ingest. Glutathione is also a major player in immune system regulation, meaning it plays an important role in autoimmunity.
- Zinc is essential for white blood cell production, and provides powerful immune system support (maybe you’ve heard zinc recommended to get over a cold quickly). In fact, studies have shown that those with a zinc deficiency are more susceptible to developing diseases.
- Get good sleep will lower inflammation, heal your body, and reduce cravings for carbs, sugar, processed foods, and other junk that contributes to autoimmunity.
- Magnesium A deficiency in magnesium increases production of proinflammatory cytokines, raising your body’s total level of inflammation, a trigger for autoimmunity. Magnesium deficiency is rampant in our society due to chronic stress, soil depletion, and high-sugar diets, so it is important to supplement with magnesium.
- B vitamins support your immune system, hormones, sleep patterns, and much more. Vitamin B12 plays a role in your body’s production of white blood cells, which are essential components of your immune system. With lowered white blood cells, you are much more susceptible to illness, including autoimmunity.
- Reduce stress Studies show stress can act as both a trigger and a modulator in autoimmunity, and stress-reducing techniques (yoga, meditation, massage) are viable treatment options.
- Activated charcoal can be taken if you have consumed a food you are sensitive to, or any less than ideal foods. Activated charcoal binds to toxins to protect your body from inflammation.
If you are dealing an autoimmune disease, or have suspicions, please schedule a consultation with a qualified functional medicine doctor to assess your needs and help you heal.
Low Body Temperature! – Dr. J Live Podcast # 156
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a very informative discussion about low body temperature. Learn how different potential stressors like thyroid issues, adrenal issues, gut health, autoimmune conditions, nutrition and low calories cause low body temperature. Find out about the role of micronutrients in thyroid hormone conversion and be aware of the medications that have a negative impact on mitochondrial function.
Gain information about the different foods, including modifications in macronutrients, and various supplements, which will improve your health and prevent different stressors that are possibly causing low body temperature.
In this episode, we cover:
03:27 Thyroid issues
07:05 Beneficial Nutrients
14:14 Toxins and Medications
22:51 Food and Supplements
33:46 Calorie Intake
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live here on YouTube. It’s Dr. J in the house. Evan, my man, how are you doing brother?
Evan Brand: Hey man, happy Monday! We’re talking all fair about that shooting this morning so my mom, she worked right next door last night at the Hotel Luxor which was uh— right next door to that shooting event in Vegas. So I called her this morning and she’s safe and sound and she got released, so she’s home, hopefully sleeping. I’m sure she’s extremely adrenally stressed at this point, but hopefully she’s resting and settling down from all that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Lots of empathy for all the people out there going through that. It must be just incredibly stressful.
Evan Brand: It’s insane.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just so difficult. So wishing everyone, you know, speedy recovery from that. That is just so difficult and man, everyone’s adrenals are revved up from that, right?
Evan Brand: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let’s go into some stuff here where people, we would get— put some information out there about improving everyone’s health.
Evan Brand: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh—and just continue to empower more people. So let’s dig in, brother.
Evan Brand: Yes. Yes, so you and I want to chat about low body temperature, which is something that so many people have. I’ve had it in the winter for a long time. I’m hoping that since I work so much, my gut and my adrenals that I don’t have it this winter but cold hands, cold feet you know that had been something that I mentioned going on with me for—for several years. I know there’s a lot of different causes that you and I wanted to go through. So how should we open this thing? Should we talk about hormones, thyroid, how do you want to lay the groundwork?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, we look at body temperature. Temperature is probably one of the best indicators of your metabolism, right? Because the more energy you have, typically the— the better your temperature is. And so typically, you’re gonna have symptoms of cold temperature which are gonna be cold hands, cold feet those kind of things. Also, fatigue, but now there’s also objective ways that we can test your temperature. You know, with the thermometer, obviously. We can do axillary temperature, which is armpit. 97.8 to 98.2 is—is Fahrenheit is a pretty good range to be in. Or 98.2 to 98.6 orally. And so you can kind of assess your temperature. You can do it in the morning and then you can also do it in the afternoon as well. Kinda do it just for before eating. That gives you a pretty good indication but if your metabolism is low and your temperature is low, it could be caused by an interplay of different things. We’ll go into it. It could be thyroid issues. It could be adrenal issues. It could be gut issues. It could be nutrient issues. It could be mitochondrial issues. So all of these things are potential stressors that could be driving that problem.
Evan Brand: I’d say number one is probably thyroid issues. Wouldn’t you suspect because so many people we talk with they have adrenal issues with them on top of that there is a thyroid problem. Like maybe elevated reverse T3, whether you’ve got that blank bullet going on or they just got a low free T3 or like you and I’ve chatted about with adrenals, you’ve got the conversion process that happens where you take the inactive T4 hormone, you convert that to active T3.That conversion process gets messed up if you’ve got chronic stress. And chronic stress as you mentioned, could be gut infections, it could be emotional stress, could be chemical, heavy metals. It could be circadian rhythm stress if you’re working third shift, for example. That could be enough to change this whole cascade. Wouldn’t you say?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Hundred percent. I mean, again, all of those things can be intimately connected. The first we look at is thyroid because thyroid hormone has a major effect on our metabolism. And our metabolism is the sum of all chemical reactions in the body. And our metabolism is pH driven, right? So if our pH becomes too alkaline or too acidic, like you know blood pH, which exists in a very fine-tune range, right around 7.35+ or -1/10 of point there. And if that pH shifts up or down, that can affect how all of our enzymes in our bodywork. So that can affect temperature and there’s things like—uh like a diabetic coma, right? Where blood sugar can go to he— or too low typically. If someone’s type I dependent and they don’t have insulin, they don’t get sugar into their cell, which can create ketoacidosis. And that can really, really drop that pH and that put you into a coma. So our pH is very driven and has a major effect on our metabolism, so, totally.
Evan Brand: So let’s hit on—let’s hit on the thyroid peace. Now autoimmunity is something we talk about so much. Would you say a common symptom of someone with Hashimoto’s, for example, could be low body temperature or possibly even a fluctuating. Maybe their low body temperature if they’re a bit underperforming but then couldn’t they just bounce right back and get actually hot if they bump into hyperthyroid. If they’re in the Hashimoto’s state, and things are still fluctuating.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, if you’re having Hashimoto’s and your immune systems constantly attacking your thyroid, your thyroid hormone can spill.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Coz every time it’s attacked, hormone spills out. Eventually those follicles run dry and you’re not gonna quite have that hyper kind of symptoms. So in an acute attack, hyper symptoms may be increased temperature are common, right? You can have like PVC’s periventricular contractions. Uh—you can have, you know, kinda this—kinda heart palpitations. Your heart’s kinda beating erratic and hard, uh—anxiety, night sweats, irritability. These are all hyper thyroid symptoms. You feel warming, right? You feel excessive warmth or temperature. But then, in a chronic state, that will eventually lead to a hypothyroid kind of environment, where your body temperature just gets very low.
Evan Brand: So someone has had Hashimoto’s for quite some time, let’s say there’s been a pretty significant tissue destruction, you would say someone will not end up being hyper long-term with Hashimoto’s. It’d probably be hypo long-term.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean you can—hyper feels very similar. Hyperthyroid Grave’s feels very similar to a hypothyroid autoimmune attack. The difference is with hyper, typically, there’s a specific antibodies or immunoglobulin compounds that come back. So with Grave’s, you’re seeing TSI immunoglobulins or you’re seeing thyroid TSH receptor site antibodies. So that’s what’s typically common in Grave’s. And when those things are high, it’s accelerating the thyroid hormone to produce excessive amounts of thyroid hormone. So there’s like a production stimulation where with the autoimmune attack, from like thyroglobulin antibodies or TPO antibodies is it’s more the spilling of a thyroid hormone out of the thyroid. It’s spilling out where the antibody attack from Grave’s, it’s stimulating the thyroid to produce more.
Evan Brand: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With Hashimoto’s, you’re not getting the stimulation. You’re more or less getting that spilling effect, which eventually, you know, will run dry.
Evan Brand: Got it. Got it. Okay. So we hit the autoimmune piece. What else would go on thyroid-wise that will be an issue with temperature regulation?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, again, there’s also certain nutrients that have a major effect on thyroid uh—conversions. So we know things like selenium are super important for thyroid conversion. So someone may have decent thyroid levels from a T4 perspective, uh— but they may not have that activation, right? They may not have that conversion uhm— that’s so important.
Evan Brand: So could it just be the lack of trace nutrients, trace mineral selenium, zinc— things like that activators.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So here, we are live on Facebook now, too with the low body temperature podcast. So getting back onto our common thread. Yeah, micronutrients like selenium are gonna be important for thyroid conversion. It’s a five—the enzyme that converts T4 to T3 inactive thyroid hormone to active thyroid hormone is a 5 deiodinase enzyme. It’s also important with glutathione and detoxification. So, yeah, that’s totally uh— important micronutrient that will affect thyroid activations. So when we look at thyroid function, we’re looking at are there blood sugar fluctuations? Are you eating grains or foods that are gonna cause that thyroid antibody attack that could cause the hormones to spill out and eventually deplete the hormones? Your thyroid follicles carry about four months of thyroid hormone. So again, if you have a chronic Hashimoto attack, where the thyroid hormone’s spilling out faster than you can synthesize and make more, then you’re going to definitely get to that depletion state where you’re gonna go hypo from a temperature standpoint. You’re gonna go almost hypothermic. That temperature will drop below that 97.8 – 98.2 armpit temperature wise or 98.2 to 98.6 and I’ll put a handout down below to my uh— metabolic temperature handout. So people can actually track their temperatures and it’s basically a graph of three different lines. And then the top brackets where you want your temperature to be through which ranges 97.8 – 98.6 We want to be checking off daily that your temps are in this bracket not the bottom or the very bottom.
Evan Brand: Got it. Okay. So what else? Should we talk about the nutrients next?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Should we talk about the nutrients, right? Vitamin A, we talked about uh— zinc, copper, selenium, magnesium very important nutrients for thyroid conversion. Now if you’re eating a whole food diet, you’re gonna be typically pretty good. If you’re having enough HCl and enzymes, you’re gonna be good as well because we need those type of compounds to be able to ionize the minerals. So it’s the diet component. It’s making sure we have the ability to break down the foods in our diet that are nutrient dense. Uhm— number three is making sure our stress response is okay because stress hormones will affect thyroid conversion. Cortisol being hyper— very high— will affect thyroid T4 to T3 conversion that inactive to active thyroid hormone. Also, if cortisol is too lo from chronic stress. So there’s this, kinda Goldilocks effect that we see here with thyroid hormone kinda need it to be not too high, but not too low to have optimal conversion. Does that makes sense?
Evan Brand: Yeah. It does. Well said. Let me mention about the gut, too, coz you just hit on the fact that you’ve got to have absorption. So even if the diet’s good, which many people listening to us, they probably already dialed in like a Paleo template but they could still have this symptom. You may want to check for infections. Coz like Justin and I talk about almost every week at some level, there could be an H. pylori, bacteria, yeast, fungus, something going on in the gut that’s stealing your nutrients or preventing you from optimally digesting. And then that issue is compounded, if you’ve been taking any type of anti-acid where acid blocking medication something simple as Tom’s or something more strong like a prior was it Prilosec or Zantac.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, yeah. Totally.
Evan Brand: Keep that in mind. If you’re looking at your medication list and that includes acid blockers and you have cold body temperatures, it’s probably cause you’re not digesting your foods therefore the thyroid is not getting fed the nutrients it needs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And also a lot of medications could affect your mitochondria. Just Google antibiotics and mitochondrial function, you’ll find that antibiotics can negatively impact mitochondrial function. And you’ll also find that other medications can impact the mitochondria. And the mitochondria is like the little powerhouse of your cell where it generates a lot of ATP, which is that currency of energy in which your body runs. So that’s really important and also an important nutrient call carnitine really helps that mitochondria utilize fat for energy, generate ATP out of that good fat, you know, it’s called uh—beta oxidation where you’re generating energy from fat. And carnitine is an important nutrient primarily made from methionine and lysine. Now, I did a video call why vegan and vegetarian diets can make you fat? Now—no—don’t make you fat. But you know, why they the can—meaning it’s not a hundred percent. But if you’re insulin resistant and you’re doing it the wrong way, where you’re emphasizing maybe too much carbohydrates, not enough protein and more gut irritating foods, yeah, it can definitely predispose people that have an inflamed guts and work more on the insulin resistance side to gain weight. And one of the big things is that when you eat certain animal rich amino acids, there are some plant ones as well, you activate the cells in the brain that are called—hold on, one __my notes—uh—tenocytes. And these tenocytes are receptor sites in the brain in the third ventricle area of the brain. And there’s a direct blood flow between them and the hypothalamus. These tenocytes, one, they sense satiety but the big thing that senses satiety for them is arginine and lysine which are really high in animal-based foods. So these amino acids really get that sense of satiation so that means you’re one, gonna have appetite regulation. Coz when you actually start feeling full, you tend to not eat all the crap, right?
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the more you can keep your cravings in check, the more you eat healthier foods because you got control over your biochemistry. You’re not reacting. You’re acting based on what you know you need to be healthy. But those amino acids are primarily gonna be higher in animal-based foods especially lysine as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. So in a roundabout way, if you are a vegetarian or a vegan and you’ve got low body temperature, it could just be something as simple as a carnitine deficiency. I mean you could probably get a little bit in beans maybe—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A little bit in beans, a little bit in almonds, a little bit in plums and avocados, for sure.
Evan Brand: But even then, once we talked like—we talked all the time, digestion of those foods is probably not very good and the concentration of those is gonna be much less as opposed to a grass-fed beef.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. In my video, I talked about, you know, if you are a smart vegan where you’re not emphasizing a lot of the grains, you’re doing safer starches, you’re getting lots of fats from avocado, olive oil, coconut oil, you’re supplementing DHEA in the form of algae, right? And if you’re getting B12 uh—supplementation and you’re getting a good multi- in there and you’re getting lots of— you’re getting some protein supplementation in there, maybe from pea or hemp, right? You may be okay on a vegan-vegetarian diet, but it’s just— it’s still less than optimal just because of the fact that you gotta go through such extreme lengths to get high-quality protein sources without all the carbohydrate. Coz vegetarian-vegan diet’s typically are packed with 60 to 80% carbohydrates for that 20 to 25% of protein you get.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. You hit on the mitochondria, too. We should take that a bit further and talk about more toxins. You hit on antibiotics, some mitochondrial issues there. Makes perfect sense. We work with people all the time where they say, “Oh Justin or Evan, as soon as I took a round of antibiotics, all of a sudden things went bad.” And it could be temperature –temperature issues, it could be sleep problems, it could be gut issues, digestive problems. And so also with mitochondrial issues, we’ve got toxins. So if you’re not using 100% organic, that’s an issue because glyphosate and these other pesticides and herbicides, fungicides and insecticides— they all compound with each other. So it’s not that one chemical by itself will kill you, but if you get a little bit of glyphosate from your non-organic berries, you combine that with a little bit of conventional vegetables coz you did a salad at a restaurant, you combine that with in antibiotics that you’re getting from meat. If it’s not labeled “no antibiotics” you stock all those upon each other, you’ve got some bad mitochondrial problems here that you need to fix. And we can measure the—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The enzymes that are needed to help move those gears that kinda crank around that mitochondrial Krebs cycle and then flow in so the beta oxidation process. Uhm— you need certain nutrients. You need B vitamins, you need magnesium, you need zinc, the healthy levels of amino acids. You also don’t need all the toxins— the aluminum, the pesticides, the glyphosate. So those things can kinda gunk up the gears of that metabolic machinery. So it’s not only what those gears need to keep it lubricated, but what it is we don’t need to put in that will prevent those gears moving. So it’s a combination of avoiding certain things, right? And again, the medications are a double-edged sword. I’m not saying don’t use them. I’m saying just really make sure they’re— they are prescribed specifically for what you need. And it’s the last case kind of thing with antibiotics. We really want to go to herbs and botanical nutrients over antibiotics. They may have a time or place, but we want to use it only when we’ve exhausted other options.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. And you and I were talking off air, we can quantify a lot of this stuff, too. So you’re talking about measuring your temperature. We can quantify what’s going on in the gut, right? We can test the gut, we can test the thyroid with—with blood using functional reference ranges and using functional numbers that conventional doctors don’t use. They’re only going to detect disease. We’re going to detect the issues before disease occurs. We’re gonna look into the gut so we could test you for infections. We could test the adrenals, look at your free cortisol rhythm so the uh— HPA axis, the hypothalamus, pituitary adrenal axis, you hear us talk about, you know, that is a factor in all of this. If your brain is not connecting the signal to the adrenals and adrenal to the thyroid, that whole system gets often chronic stress. And it’s up to us to figure out when we talk about stress what’s in that bucket. Is it just your job, your bad boss, your relationship, the divorce you’re going through? Is it that stuff only or is that stuff plus chemicals in the diet, plus nutrient deficiencies, plus infections, plus not having enough quality meat in the diet. You see how these things can all add up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And just to kinda look at the thyroid component again, there’s dysregulation up top where the TSH is either high extreme, higher extreme, low. Now it can be extremely low because you’re on thyroid hormone and the body needs more thyroid hormone. The body is sense— sensing more thyroid hormone in the brain, but there’s less than the actual tissues. So that you’re keeping the thyroid hormone higher, but that’s keeping the TSH low. That’s step one. The TSH may be low because of HPAT access dysregulation. That hypothalamus pituitary and that adrenal thyroid axis. There’s some kinda short-circuits happening in there because of the stress— the emotional stress, because of the physical stress, because of the chemical stressors. And we have to address those while we support the nutrients to get this hardwire back on track. We can also have low T4 levels. Coz if T4 is low, we’re gonna have low T3 over here. So we got to make sure the nutrients for T4 in there like I mentioned before the vitamin A, the zinc , the copper, magnesium, selenium, uhm— amino acids, tyrosine and potentially iodine. As long as we know that there’s not uh— autoimmune attack that’s the lease active going on. And then number three, after that, we let see how the T4 to T3 conversion is. If T4 is good, how does T3 conversion look? Is it this big drop off? Or also is there a very high amount of reverse T3 because of that stress? All those can make a big difference. And then one person ask here—James asks, “Well, is hypothyroid and hyperthyroid hypo and hyper kind of the same for treatment?” Yes and no. With hyperthyroid from a TSI thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin or TSH receptor antibody attack, we’re more concerned about coz it tends to be more chronically high which can increase the chance of a thyroid storm and then potentially a stroke. So we take that very seriously. We refer that patient out to their medical doctor uh—for monitoring. We don’t want—we wanna make sure there’s not a stroke going on. But typically, the treatment will be, you know, PTU. Uhm—basically uh—propylthiouracil or methimazole. Things to basically block iodine uptake to make thyroid hormone. Or though— you know, typically, go to a thyroid radioactive thyroid kind of ablation or even a thyroidectomy. I’ve had patients where we’ve been able to avoid those because we give nutrients to help modulate the thyroid response and modulate the autoimmune response like carnitine, like blue flag, like lemon balm, melissa uhm—into certain adaptogens. They could also help kinda dampen that response. There are some protocols that even show higher amounts of iodine can block that sodium uhm— iodine’s import that transfers iodine into the thyroid. So there’s a couple of different protocols you can use to help. And of course, all of the diet and lifestyle things are the same. But we take the Grave’s autoimmune attack a little bit more seriously just because of the repercussions of it not being treated appropriately, what will happen, we really want to sidestep those.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So get the TPO antibodies checked. Get your eTG antibodies checked, you talk about the TSI. Now, have you seen where TPO TG would be high at the same time as TSI? Where it’s gonna look like Hashimoto’s and Grave’s at the same time?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It could. I’ve seen it before. Yeah. It definitely can. So get—we’re gonna really get patients on an autoimmune protocol to help lower any autoimmune attack from the food, from the gluten, from the leaky gut. And we’ll also work on blood sugar stability coz high and low blood sugar fluctuations have a major effect on the immune system.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now another person asked here, the reason why you know I’m such a huge fan of how we do our podcast is coz it’s literally on the go and we’re infusing questions from people on YouTube here right into the conversations. So it’s like—remember those books you read when you’re like a kid and you read it and it’s like, “Oh, if you want the character to do this, turn to this page. If you want the character to do this, turn to this page.” You can totally change how the book goes.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it’s kind how our podcast are. So interjecting here uhm—, Gerald asked, “What about T3? How does T3 work?” Well number one, T3 can just help support low T3 levels. And if there’s some kind of conversion issue, that can kinda biased time to fix the conversion aspect, number one. Number two, giving that T3 in the Wilson protocol uhm— that can have some effect on clearing out the receptor sites. So that now the T3 works better and binds better uhm— in the future. You can do that by starting low and then tapering up, holding it and then tapering it back down. In the Wilson protocol, Dr. Dennis Wilson does that with time-released T3. But we do a glandular’s in it. That can still be helpful as well. We’re using that as a way of clearing out the receptor site but were also not, you know, thinking that that’s gonna be the only issue. We’re also banking that there’s other things that we’re gonna be fixing that will allow it to be a long-term solution, right?
Evan Brand: Got it. So you’re saying the thyroid glandular’s can be used for low—a low T3 situation. That’s the fix that’s going to get you better enough to keep moving the needle in other departments.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Like in my line, we have Thyro Balance which is a—a really glandular uhm—nutrient thyroid support from a glandular perspective. And then we have that we have Thyro Replete which is nutrients for the conversion. So there’s some herbs that help with conversion like coleus forskohlii and ginseng and then we have the nutrients for conversion that I mentioned—the vitamin A, magnesium, copper, zincs, selenium—all of those—and tyrosine’s. We wanna make sure all those are in there. Uhm so we hit it from all angles. I mean if we knew exactly what that missing like nutrient component was, we could hit it more practically. But it’s too difficult to do that.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re better off using multiple methods to hit it. That way the patient can get better faster.
Evan Brand: Agreed. And you mention the adaptogens. I’m so glad you did. We use those all the time. I take them every day in some shape or form, whether it’s ashwaganda, holy basil, shoshandra. There are so many options and people ask, “Well, can I just take a bunch of adaptogens and fix myself?” Uhm— it doesn’t work like that. You just want to use them as one piece of your toolbox. You still want to be getting to the root cause. So adaptogens are life-changing but if there’s root causes, you can take all the adaptogens in the world and it won’t fix you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna take my ashwaganda right now—
Evan Brand: Perfect.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A little bit of immune support. But I mean, like yeah, if you’re doing okay and you’re like, “Hey, Dr. J and Evan talked about some ashwaganda and some of these nutrients. I want to try it out.” Fine, go ahead. But if you’re actively having issues that are you know, the symptoms that we mention here whether it’s on the hyper or hypo side, you really want to get someone on board to help guide you because it’s never just one magic bullet. It is—it’s a whole bunch of things that we’re doing together. And the more chronic it is, the more you have a you know, that momentum working against you. You got overcome that inertia to stop that— that snowball effect and start pushing it back uphill. So, yeah, if you’re in pretty good shape, fine you know just try some of these things. But if you’re in not so good shape, you want to reach out, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yep. Cool. Oh, we got time for one more question. Uh James said, “It’s not a thyroid question.” He’s taking an antibiotic for root canal this week. “Will this affect the result of organic acids test and stool test if he collects the samples while antibiotics are still in the system?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean if we’re doing some of the genetic base testing, it shouldn’t have an effect on it. If we’re doing a stool base to antigen-based testing, then it would.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you should be okay but we’re doing the G.I. map which is you know, what my go-to is. It should be okay according to the lab. I try to avoid it— doing it. So I would say in a perfect world, if it’s not gonna delay your treatment, I would say get to the antibiotics give it like a day or two to let it wash out and then do it. But if uhm— timing doesn’t work out, just do it, get done.
Evan Brand: I would also look at Mercola root canals and read about those. I mean maybe you’re too far down the rabbit hole and you can’t avoid the root canal. But you know there are some other options you may have available if you’ve got a good biological Dennis maybe will sit down with you and say, “Okay, root canal’s option A but maybe there’s a option B C you could look at too because we’ve had a lot of people to come to us with infected root canals and maybe Jessica can speak on this a bit. But I’ve seen it as a big needle mover for people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. There’s a book by Ramiel Nagel that talks all about root canals. It is highly recommended. You take a look at it. Uh— fat-soluble nutrients, vitamin A, vitamin K are very helpful. Uh—oil pulling that kinda help extract any toxins that may be in there and you don’t want a root canal you want to get the tooth pulled out. Uhm— you want to get an implant put in using biologically appropriate material. You don’t want the gangrenous tissue still in the system without the blood flow. And the immune response to be able to get it is just a harboring place for a whole bunch of bacteria and viruses to hang out.
Evan Brand: Right. Yeah. Well said. So James, look into that. Maybe it’s not too late. Uh—hopefully, you’ve got some other options you can pursue it’d be much— much safer and much healthier in the long term. That way, you don’t have a hidden dental infection. There’s a guy named, Simon Yu that you and I should reach out and interview. He’s over in St. Louis he talks a lot about hidden dental infections. I think that’d be a good show.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Absolutely. Hundred percent. So couple of things we wanna talk about. Oh, also carbohydrate, I think is important. Again, my bias is towards a lower carbohydrate template—Paleo template. And again, I hate the word “diet” because it assumes something is temporary and it assumes that it is fixed; where a template gives us flexibility and modification and may change day to day. It may change uh—meal to meal. I tend to be very lower carbohydrate my first two meals of the day and then after that, I may increase in carbohydrate at nights uhm—you know a bit of the starchy based. So I’m very strict during the day. It’s high-quality. It’s— set—it’s 60 to 70% fats, the only carbohydrates are vegetables and then good proteins and then I go higher at night. On the carbohydrates side, maybe a little bit of sweet potatoes and some butter and cinnamon or maybe I have a—some dark chocolate or have couple more berries than I normally would. So there’s that component. So I always go lower carbohydrate to start because so many people are insulin resistant just because of the fact that we eat too much carbohydrate and were inflamed. So I always go lower carbohydrate to start and then typically, patient will do be better and will feel better because insulin resistance can affect T4 to T3 thyroid conversion, which can cause lower temperature. Now, in the double edge side of the fence, if people go too low insulin, they may also get poor thyroid conversion as well. So just like I mentioned cortisol has a major effect on thyroid conversion. Well, guess what? Insulin has a major effect on thyroid conversion. Type I diabetics— guess what? With low insulin levels coz of the autoimmune attack to the beta cells of the pancreas, they have low body temperature. So if you go too low carbohydrate, and this is for certain individuals not everyone, I know people are gonna be like, “But I’m low carbohydrate and I felt great and it reverse my low temperature.” I get it. Again, there are exceptions to every rule. There are tall Chinese people that play basketball even though they are more shorter in the population. There are exceptions to everything, okay? We got to get that in. So yes, there are some people that a low carbohydrate diet, the majority I would say would help partly because our consumption of refined carbohydrate and sugar is higher, but there are some people when they’re chronically load, they may increase that carbohydrate just a bit. And that ups the insulin a little bit which then helps that thyroid conversion. They’re like, “ Dude, my hair started to grow back better, my temperature’s better, my energy is better.” Boom! You at least now figure it out for you. So exceptions to every rule, figure it out. And uhm—if you feel great going low-carb, great, keep it there, hang out. But if you start getting some of those hypo temperature symptoms, then we’ll just ratcheted up a little bit. And I primarily ratcheted up starting at night.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’ll still get the benefit of keeping it lower carb during the day.
Evan Brand: Well said. I mean that’s me in a nutshell. I went very, very, very low-carb ketogenic, I guarantee. I was probably ketogenic most of the time and then I started to get cold and so I added in some starch with dinner and all of a sudden my body temperature’s perfect now. I feel good. So uh—if I go too low-carb again, it may come back or if there’s a huge piece of stress on my plate, the low body temperature may come back. But for now, I’ve been able to reverse this and been able to clear out all the infections with your help in terms of protocol a couple of years ago getting rid of all my gut bugs, plus supporting adrenals, getting the diet dialed in, getting my sleep improved, blacking out my room. All of those things are still important. So I hope this has been helpful. I gotta run. You’ve gotta run, too. Uhm—or are there any last questions that we could answer? I closed out the chat window. Uh there’s just one thing I want to say is it’s not about being higher carb or lower carb, have a –have a foundational template which you— which you go back to and then you can customize it. And then if you increase carbs, you can still get some of the benefits by having that first 20 hours of your meals relatively lower carb, higher fat, moderate protein and those last four hours you pop up a little bit and so you can still get some of those benefits. If you’re like, “Oh, I feel better with higher carbs.” You can still get the benefits of the first 20 hours of your day kinda in that ketogenic state and then pop up the carbohydrates later. So it’s not an either or thing. We can kinda straddle the fence but we want to customize it. I don’t give a crap if—if low-carb is your missing link and being low-carb all the time helps you, that’s what we’re gonna do. If being low-carb and a little more high carbohydrate helps you out, I don’t care. I’m all about the results and not about what tool I have to use to get the job done.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. For me that looks like the breakfast like a pastured sausage, maybe a handful of macadamias, maybe a handful of organic blueberries. Lunch—I probably do some leftover steak and veggies like a big thing of broccoli with some butter. Dinner— that’s when I may do some type of pastured meat, a little bit of some veggies and then starch, so it could be a medium-size baked sweet potato, butter, cinnamon. That’s all it takes and I feel good. So just to kind of give people an idea what is that look like. That’s what it looks like.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. That’s great. And a couple of questions here. Uh— Stephanie talks about menopausal women with lower estrogen and a low estradiol vaginal tablets. Well, this is interesting because typically low estrogen can cause hot flashes. And why does that cause hot flashes? Because typically the FSH and the LH starts to rise in the pituitary which is that signaling hormone trying to yell to the ovaries to make more progesterone and estrogen. So when LH and FSH primarily FSH goes high, that can create some vasodilation effects and create the hot flashes. So by giving a little bit of thyroid—giving a little bit of uhm— female hormone support, we can drop down that FSH then we can also modulate the receptor sites with some herbs as well to help with how flashes. Whether we use maca, or we use dong quia, or black cohosh or raspberry root, or shepherds purse. There’s different nutrients or herbs we can do to help modulate that. So again, you could still have hypo, low thyroid issues, but have menopausal issues because of the low estrogens, which could drive the hot flashes up. So it’s kind of a conundrum. The hot flashes may—may overshadow this low thyroid thing over here. So as we get the female hormones fixed, you may notice the low thyroid comes back later on because it’s just not a secondary issue and the primary issue is the menopause. Once that’s ruled out, now this one comes to the surface.
Evan Brand: Got it. Well said. We should probably do a whole show just on low estrogen if we haven’t.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that’d be great. I mean, I see estrogen dominance is a big problem.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Where estrogen –the ratio of estrogen is higher than progesterone, right? So progesterone should be like this 25 to 125 times more than estrogen. But if that ratio starts to creep up where estrogen gets higher, that’s estrogen dominance. The problem is a lot of people, though, where that ratio—they’re estrogen dominant, progesterone’s slow but estrogen is also low. So they get this estrogen dominant, but also low estrogen sums at the same time. So it’s kinda like this conundrum. It’s like this little tug of war that’s happening there.
Evan Brand: Wow. Put it on this to do list. It sounds like it’s gonna be a fun one for us to dive into more. And I’ve probably got some stuff to learn from you on that topic as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s great. Well any last questions, comments, or concerns, Evan?
Evan Brand: No. I think this has been good. People, you got to get the testing run because if you don’t test, you’ve guessed. So if you’re trying to figure this out on your own, even if you’re not working with Justin or myself, then get the test run. Find a functional medicine practitioner they can take care of you. We are accepting new clients, so if you do need help, feel free to reach out justin health.com evanbrand.com We run these labs on all of our clients because it’s the foundation. We’ve got to have the data. We’ve gotta have the puzzle pieces on the table; otherwise, you can’t move the needle. We could throw a bunch of random stuff at you might help, can’t hurt, but we want to get you better. There’s a systemic process that we do step by step by step to take you through this. So happy to help. Reach out if you got questions and thanks for tuning.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh! One last thing, man. I forgot to add. This is so important. Low calories.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just not eating enough calories will cause low body temperature. It’s shown to cause a low level T3. Now this is important because if your diet is 25% crap Ola and let’s say you’re eating 2000 calories a day and then we switch you over— we switch you over to a uh— autoimmune kinda Paleo template, but you’re only able to—to—to switch over 75% of your diet because you don’t—you don’t have enough you—you can’t replace all the crap that you’re eating with the good stuff, right?
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because if you’re eating a whole bunch of crappy carbohydrates and stuff and then you replace it with a whole bunch of really good vegetables or lower sugar foods, well guess what? You’re probably didn’t replace the calorie amount either. So now you got this 25% calorie deficiency. So now instead of having 2000 calories, right? Now you’re having 1500 calories and maybe metabolically you need 2000 calories. Now you’re 500 calories in the hole which means your 500 calories deficient of various nutrients. So now your metabolism goes low coz there’s less fuel. That’s important. I see a lot. So you gotta work with someone that really can make sure you’re exchanging the foods and you’re getting enough calories as well. Coz calories equal nutrition. if you’re eating real foods.
Evan Brand: I’m glad you mentioned that. That’s such a simple but common issue. If you’re going AIP, you are going Paleo, you’re eating real foods, you could have an entire plate full of broccoli and it may only be 50 calories.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Dude, great job. Way to kill it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And of course, the infections like you mentioned can really suck down the energy. Of course, acute infection, you know, you’re causing a fever, right? Because the immune system’s trying to up regulate itself because a lot of the bacteria and crap there uhm—they’re like—they’re mesophilic. They—they thrive in a medium temperature. So when you go a little bit higher, you can actually kill them off with a higher temperature. But these chronic bugs can really deplete the energy the body and create this kinda lower temperatures as well. For sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And I went—I went to low-calorie for a period of time, not intentionally, not on purpose. It just happened. I was eating meats, I was eating veggies and I track my calories for a few days and I was eating m—and my activity level and all that. I was probably 4 to 600 calories deficient. So just added in an extra tablespoon of butter here and there, half of an avocado here and there, handful of nuts and seeds. And I was right back up to where I needed to be.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like here’s a seesaw right?
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if like carbohydrate is here, if carbs go lower— this is fat over here. The fats have to go up.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you keep the fats here, you keep the fats on—on this side low, and drop the carbohydrates, that’s where the problem happens. The fats also have to go up. That’s the biggest issue. Proteins typically stay in the middle. Typically, proteins only go up if you’re doing a whole bunch of protein powders because proteins and fats are intimately connected. Uh so if you’re eating real whole foods, you know, it’s hard to get just proteins in whole foods, unless you’re doing maybe like venison or rabbit or like boneless chicken breast. But if you’re eating full fat foods, you’re gonna get fat. And then if you’re adding fats to your vegetables, you’re gonna get extra fat without the protein there as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So keep that at the back of your head.
Evan Brand: Perfect.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anyone listening here, give us comments below. Give us some shares. Give us some likes. We want to hear thoughts in the comment section. If you’re listening to us on iTunes, that’s great. Click below and subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can see Evan and I’s mugs going back and forth in our little combos here. And then you can give us some comments below here on YouTube. We love the see the feedback. And Evan, hey man, you have a great day. We’ll talk soon.
Evan Brand: Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Foundational Nutrients for Optimal Health – Dr. Justin Live Podcast # 155
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand dive into the topic of nutrients and their importance to our bodies. Listen to this podcast and learn how B vitamins, Magnesium, Vitamin C & D, Selenium, Zinc and Omegas contribute to achieving a healthy body. Understand how these vitamins and minerals support different bodily functions and gain an understanding on how their deficiencies affect our health and cause unfavorable symptoms.
Explore other topics related to nutrients as they answer questions about leaky gut, H.pylori and some blood pressure medications which contribute to nutritional deficiency. Know some of the best sources of supplements and product recommendations which have been proven effective based on their practice and professional experience.
In this episode, we cover:
09:00 B vitamins
11:25 Minerals + Magnesium
28:15 Vitamin C, Selenium
36:26 Vitamin D
Evan Brand: A happy Monday. If you’re watching in the future I guess the day doesn’t matter but for us it does.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I had a great weekend, man. I was doing a little waterskiing action today. It was phenomenal—actually yesterday, I’m sorry. Great, great day and back in the saddle for an awesome Monday. Got some patients coming up right after our live podcast. How about yourself man? Anything good happening for you?
Evan Brand: Uh—Actually, Yeah. I’m going to create a pretty cool piece of content as soon as you and I get off the call together, I’m gonna go eat some lunch and a I’m gonna drive about an hour away to a local hemp farm where there’s a guy who has a Kentucky hemp oil company that I’ve been seeing his products everywhere. His son was having a major seizure disorder. His son was having hundreds of seizures within a week. And he started to use cannabis extracts to help his son and now his son has not had seizures for years— several years. And so this guy he moved from Northern California where he was growing medical cannabis and now he’s just growing hemp in Kentucky and so I’m driving to the farm. I’ll probably end up doing a podcast with him coz I don’t think it’s gonna be easy to do it in the field, but I’m gonna try to take my camera and puts— maybe a 45 minute little video together, try to interview him, get a little bit his story and share his products coz I’ve been using the CBD with my clients. And as you and I talk about with inflammation and the anti-anxiety benefits, you can pretty much use it with anyone. And it’s going to help regardless of the case whether it’s like Lyme or Hashimoto’s or H. pylori. Whatever we’re dealing with our clients, I mean we can pretty much use CBD across the board and we might notice some beneficial changes and it’s definitely not gonna hurt somebody. So looking forward to going to meet that guy. And stay tuned because I have a video probably the next week that’s gonna be published on it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Yeah. I think CBD has some really good benefits. I use on handful of patients for pain issues, for sleep issues, uh—for anxiety, just from immune balance. And I do fine. It’s— it’s very good. CBD or Cannabis Diol is the non-psychoactive component of marijuana or hamper cannabis, if you will. THC Tetrahydro Cannabis that’s gonna be the part of the marijuana that gets you high and kinda gives you the munchies. So you get some of those benefits with the CBD without the, you know, the higher the munchies afterwards. And I’ve seen it work very well with seizures like you mentioned, very well with autoimmune and pain stuff. I mean it can be very therapeutic. I don’t think it fixes the root cause but I do think it’s very, very therapeutic. It can help.
Evan Brand: Right. Well said. Yeah. Definitely not gonna fix the root cause but I’ve had some people too that are in California, other states where they can even get recreational cannabis and I tell people go for it if they asked me because if they’re doing a tincture or they’re doing a spray or sublingual, they’re not having to smoke, they’re not having to use a vaporizer if they just don’t want to get the high, there’s— there’s tons of different options where you can do a high CBD. And a very tiny amount of THC where people can help fix their sleep. I had a __ in California she’s had chronic pain. She’s had Lyme forever. She said if she does CBD by itself, does pretty much nothing; but when she adds just like a milligram, so do say, 10 to 50 mg CBD, 1 mg THC, all the sudden the synergistic effect happens and the pain goes away.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. They can be very helpful. It’s a good tool in your functional medicine uh— pockets, so to speak.
Evan Brand: Yup. Hey, Robert, thanks for joining us. James, thanks for rejoining us. Our topic, well, we figure we’ll do a Q&A but our topic initially is about foundational nutrients kind of what the things that are actually worth your time and money because Justin and I were so many people come to us after they’ve been to other functional medicine practitioners. And we’ve got a kind of clean up the mess and there’s like 20 or 30 or 40 supplements that people are taking. And we like to try to whittle that down to just some of the foundations. And some things people are taking might help and can’t hurt, but if you’re spending a thousand bucks or something crazy amount on supplements, we really want to give you the stuff that just gonna move the needle coz why take something if it’s not gonna do stuff for you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And again, kinda foundation before we go in is a Paleo template to start. And again, that’s macronutrient agnostic. It could be high-carb, low-carb, high-fat, moderate fat, high-protein, moderate protein, right? So we’re just focusing on the anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, low toxin foods. That’s number one. And then from there, the next step above that is making sure we have the lifestyle stressors in order: sleep, hydration, uh—not eating when we’re really stressed, that’s number two. And number three is actually making sure we can digest the foods that we eat. We eat a really good diet but we can’t break it down. That’s the equivalent of going to the grocery store and leaving that food out on the counter, not putting it in the fridge for a week or two. It’s gonna rot. So the next step above that is HCL and enzymes and digestive nutrients so we can break those really good foods down. That’s our foundation. And once we have that, that’s where I think some of the nutrients come in. So with my patients, all of them, they’re on all either the Multi Nutrients Supreme or Multi support pack which has the extra, kinda stress handling nutrients that are gonna be in there which are gonna consist of high-quality B vitamins that are methylated or activated like P5P uhm—of course, like your B1, B2, right? Thiamine, riboflavin right? These are all—niacin—These are all important nutrients. Of course, activated LMTHF folate, of course, methylated B12 or some kind other adenosine hydroxy B12.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh—chelated minerals like calcium and magnesium and zinc and selenium, right? All chelated meaning they’re bound to specific amino acids, so that we can have better absorption. When we have an amino acid, kind of uhm—they’re next to it, it’s like an escort or a bodyguard for that nutrient to get where it needs to go in the body, if you will.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. A lot of these nutrients people are—I’m hearing feedback. What’s going on your end? Maybe your speakers are a bit loud.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m good on my end. I don’t hear anything here.
Evan Brand: You don’t? Okay. Leave us a comment in the YouTube if people hear the feedback at all, if you hear my voice echoing. A lot of people are so deficient in nutrients, even with an organic diet. And that is something that you and I see and measure on the stool test and then we see and measure that on the organic acids test, too. You know we’ve got a lot of people that come to us because they’ve heard us talking about like a ketogenic diet or some other high-fat diet. But then we can measure something called the steatocrit on the stool test. And so, if people wanna quantify, “Well how am I actually digesting”, “What can you guys teach me about my nutrients?” and “My diet’s perfect, I’m one of those guys, I want to try to fix everything with diet”, well, we can take a look and see if that’s actually working for you. So if we see steatocrit that’s high, that’s a fecal fat marker. You can look at your stool, of course, but it’s better to have a number. And if we see that your fecal fat marker’s high, well, we know we’ve got to give you some good fat digesting enzymes, help out the pancreas help out the gallbladder. And then also on the organic acids panel, we’re going to look at the amino acid markers, so we can see do you have the raw breakdown materials? Coz your proteins—like your animal proteins and pastured animal products—those are all made of amino acids. That’s like the breakdown products. Stuff like those and that’s what fuels your brain chemicals, your neurotransmitters and so, if we see you’re super low on amino acids, that’s a problem. So we have to fix it.
And like you mentioned, why is it happening? Well could be infections like Robert is uh— he’s a left us a comment here. He is talking about that he’s had Blasto, he’s had Klebsiella, he’s had Citrobacter—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: He’s resolved a lot of his infections through Dr. J’s uh—antimicrobials, which is awesome. I guarantee you are getting robbed for a long time of your—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. 100% So the first thing is, right, we have that kind of diet. So think of like your health is like running a business. So every year that you’re unhealthy is like a business, right, having more expenses than its profit, right? Where then its revenue— gross revenue, right? So you’re going a little bit more into debt, a little bit more into debt. The difference is you don’t go into bankruptcy court, right, and go bankrupt. You have symptoms. And those symptoms eventually may lead into a cluster of diseases or pathology whether it’s diabetes or it’s just obesity or maybe it’s cancer or heart disease or you’re just in this in between where you kinda have chronic fatigue, you don’t feel good, you’re kind of depressed. And then you’re in this in between where you go to the doctor and they’re just like, “Oh yeah, you’re just aging.” or “Here’s an antidepressant.” or “It’s all in your head.” And then you’re stuck with these kinda in between kind of diagnoses where you’re not— you don’t have a disease, but you sure don’t feel good and you’re not getting any answers, right?
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So that’s kinda the big thing that we see. So we’re like, alright, so imagine that that’s the equivalent of business $1 million in debt. Well just because you start having good business practice and start pulling a profit, you gotta now make above and beyond that million before you start coming back in the black. So that’s where it’s really good for some of these supplements to come in because they kinda, you know, act like a mini bailout or a mini—a mini business loan to kind of bring you back in the balance. So things like B vitamins are great because you burn these up when you’re stressed. And if you have a lot of dysbiotic bacteria, these cre— the good bacteria produce healthy amounts of B vitamins. If you have a lot of bad bacteria, you’re not getting the B vitamins and you’re also getting a lot of toxins, too, which create leaky gut and create more stress and cause you to burn B vitamins and also creates a lot of lactic acid which eats a lot of your B vitamins. So B vitamins are really important first step. And we have B vitamins like B1, which is Thiamine or B2, which is Riboflavin or B3, which is Niacin and B6, which is Pyridoxine 5 Phosphate or Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, B9, which is Folate, uhm—B 12, which is amino, B12, right? Uhm—Methylcobalamin Hydroxyl Adenosyl Cobalamin, right? These are important B vitamins especially if you’re a vegetarian. B12 is gonna be one of those that you’re missing. So any comments, Evan, on the B vitamins and how important they are.
Evan Brand: Yes, sir. Absolutely. And I’m gonna address Robert’s question at the same time answering uh—or adding a comment. He said “Can these infections result in high homocysteine levels?” The answer is absolutely yes and there’s a journal that I’ll send over to Justin so we can put it in the show notes. It was American family physician was the literature but it was an article all about vitamin B12 deficiency and basically what happens is whether it’s H. pylori or like they even talk about in this article which is surprising coz most conventional medical people they kinda disregard parasites, but it’s talking about the link between parasites and B12 deficiency and then the link between B12 deficiency in elevated homocysteine levels. So, yes, we may give you some type of supplement, It’s gonna have the B12 like we always talked about. We’ve gotta get to the root cause, too. So we’ve got to fix those infections like I’ve had. We gotta fix those, too, at the same time while supplementing. So let me send it to you, Justin, so we can—we can share with the listeners.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That sounds great. I think B vitamins are really important just number one because of the stress component; number two because of the gut bacteria component; and then number three just to kind of—most people are still stressed so they need those B vitamins just to help kind of breakeven every day. So that’s the first component. Uh next let’s talk about minerals. So one of the first important minerals is gonna be magnesium because it’s a mineral that has over 100 or 1000 roles 1000 and enzymatic roles in the body, right? It has a major effect on dealing with enzymes. So with Krebs cycle, with energy, with blood pressure, with mood, with, sleep, with relaxation, with stress. Lots of different roles in the body and it’s one of those that are just incredibly deficient in our food supply. There’s lots of studies on magnesium deficiency and that’s it literally prevalent over 50% of the population. So this is important and if we’re not eating organic, then the magnesium in our food will be lower. So magnesium is one of these things that we wanna make sure is in a high quality supplement. I put it in my supplement via magnesium malate. So it’s bound to malic acid which is a Krebs cycle kinda intermediary nutrient. So it’s really important for the Krebs cycle and that way we can at least guarantee a couple hundred milligrams but because it’s chelated, we you know, it—more of it gets into where it needs to go which is really important. So magnesium is another one of those very important nutrients.
Evan Brand: Good. Well said. Yeah. And if you bought magnesium at Walgreens or CVS or Walmart or Target probably magnesium oxide, we talked about this before, but it’s about a 4% absorption rate. So if you’re taking 100 mg, you’re getting 4% of that; if you’re taking a 1000 mg, 4% of that. So take a look at your supplement bottle, flipped it around and look at the form of magnesium. If it’s oxide, you could use it for constipation that’s about the only benefit. But like Justin’s talking about the to help fuel the enzymatic processes and help Krebs cycle and promote energy and all that, it’s not going to do anything. You’ve got a look at the malate’s; you’ve got a look at the taurates; you’ve got the citrate’s; the—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Glycinate.
Evan Brand: Glycinate, the threonate. So there’s many, many good ones out there. And Mercola, I don’t know if he’s just saying this like anecdotally or if he’s got some literature on it, but Dr. Mercola’s recent talk about EMF and how he believes that the magnesium can help mitigate the EMF and he’s recommending like 2 g a day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.
Evan Brand: — of different forms of magnesium. It makes sense, but I don’t know the mechanism of how that would help.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Well if we look at the big magnesium foods, right? Magnesium is gonna be lower in foods, but it’s gonna be highest in our green vegetables— spinach, swiss chard, uh— pumpkin seeds uhm—you know, kefirs, things like that, almonds, some legumes, avocado, figs, dark chocolate—dark chocolate’s a really good one, uh— banana. Again, you just have to be careful because if you’re kind of having autoimmune issue, more on autoimmune template to start, well, seeds are out, any dairies out, legumes out, uhm— some of these—half your foods are gone.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you have to be careful like the big things are gonna be high quality dark chocolate, uh—lots of good greens. And if you can do one of these nuts or seeds like the pumpkin seeds I mentioned, that’s a really good place. But if not, that’s were leaning on a good supplement is gonna be helpful, but the green veggie, I think will be the key uhm—to that. So we just gotta keep in in mind, you know, there may be some foods that are really good for us made nutrient profile but they may have an inflammatory profile that’s— let’s just say, kinda contradicts or kinda—the risk outweighs the benefit of getting that nutrient coz of the inflammation.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I agree. So if you’re autoimmune protocol, if your digestion’s compromised, which it probably is if you’re on an autoimmune protocol coz you probably had an autoimmune illness and that’s what we’re recommending an AIP diet. Sounds like a magnesium supplement will be much— much, much more necessary and helpful. Uh— we had a question from Linda. She said, should she be concerned if every time she goes to the stool, so every time she poops uhm— there’s an oil slick.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t know if I would say– I don’t know if I would say scared but concerned, oh, right, yeah. I mean I would be scared if there was blood in the stool.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like you know decent bit of blood and it wasn’t just from a tiny bit of a hemorrhoid issue. But if I saw blood in the stool, I would be scared, for sure. I would definitely get that—some kind of a hem—some kind of an ulcer or cancer, make sure that’s ruled out. But with just the slick in the stool, I would be concerned because you’re not digesting your fat which means vitamin A, D, E, K your fat-soluble nutrients like your long chain fatty acids like EPA or DHEA or you know, coconut, good fats like that, you’re not absorbing those which means you’re gonna have blood sugar issues and you’re gonna have malabsorption, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Absolutely. So in that case, Linda, if you listen to us before, we’ll sound like a broken record, but if not, uh— you know, if you’re working with Justin or I, what we’re gonna end up doing with you would be looking at the stool test, we’ve gotta measure that fecal fat, the steatocrit marker, we’re gonna look for infections. So we’re gonna look for parasites; we’re gonna look for yeast; we’re gonna look for fungus; we’re gonna look for anything that’s gonna be stealing your nutrients or messing up that absorption. H. pylori if that’s suppressing the parietal cells that make hydrochloric acid in the gut. Now your whole digestive cascades is falling apart, we’re gonna look at medications. So if you’ve got a history or your currently taking some type of acid blocking drug we’ve got a factor that in coz that’s such a huge factor for fat digestion, too, if you’re just suppressing that. So we gotta look for those underlying causes but eventually, yes, we could fix the situation and probably add enzymes back in. Let’s address uh—Haley’s question, too, Justin, coz uh—it kinda ties into this. She said that she’s— her digestive enzymes can make your pancreas and gallbladder quote unquote lazy. What are your thoughts? We know that’s not true. With melatonin, yes, you can turn down the production of melatonin if you supplement. But with enzymes, my understanding is we’re only feeding the fire. Justin, can you comment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well even with melatonin I talked to Dr. Ron Rothenberg about that and he says long as the dose is relatively low that that won’t happen coz it’s a positive feedback loop with these things. But when it comes to hydrochloric acid and enzymes, one of the major feedback loops for HCl and enzymes is gastrin, right? And gastrin when you take supplemental HCl, enzyme levels are –or gastrin levels don’t drop. So it’s not like you get testosterone testicle shrink in size.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not like that. So my bigger concern is that someone’s not making enough enzymes because they don’t have enough hydrochloric acid in the stomach and my concern is that’s— there’s not enough HCl on the stomach because of the sympathetic stress response, right? That fight or flight from food or from emotional stress or physical stress, so we, of course, we’re fixing that stuff upstream, right? Eating in a good, stress-free environment, not hydrating with food hydrating before, you know, we’re after biting after an hour or two but after, you know, 15 minutes before. And then we’re taking enough hydrochloric acid to lower the acidity so we can activate our own enzymes. But taking something is gonna be great coz I’m more concerned about that food sitting in your gut and not being digested and basically rotting and rancidifying and putrefying, creating stress by sitting in your gut.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s my bigger concern.
Evan Brand: I agree. So we hit the minerals. You talked about those you did great. We hit our magnesium which is gonna be probably number one. There’s a whole organization dedicated to magnesium deficiencies. If you type in gotmag, it think it’s gotmag.org. There’s like stage 2, 3 and 4 symptoms. You could even have insane symptoms, big issues, heart arrhythmias, atrial fibrillation, all sorts of other like heart-related issues due to magnesium, if you’re deficient. So if you’ve got some heart flutters or some weird symptoms, the cardiologist, they’re not gonna know you’ve got a magnesium deficiency, they’re just gonna end up putting you on like a beta blocker or some type of heart rhythm drug like they’ve done to my grandmother. And they’re not addressing magnesium and these drugs they’re using are likely gonna deplete magnesium even more. So we could get into some really, really big serious health implications if we don’t address something that simple as magnesium.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, hundred percent. So again, big source of magnesium, in my line, I have one called Magnesium Supreme. That’s a magnesium malate. That malate’s are– the malic acid so that helps in the Krebs cycle, it helps with energy but also has a relaxation effect. So that’s one of the ones I formulated. I still even like a little bit of magnesium citrate at night. I think it’s great. It may not be the best absorbed, it’s cheaper but it’s still good. So I like my Magnesium Supreme and then we use the Malate— Magnesium Malate in all the multis. And the multi-nutrients Supreme, in the twice or in the Multisuper pack. So that’s kind of what we have. I like those. I use those daily. I think they’re great. And then for kids that may be uh—you know have serious gut issues, we may do like a magnesium threonate kinda gel to help or magnesium chloride kind of uhm—Epsom salt bath, too.
Evan Brand: Nice. And with the anxiety like PTSD, traumas, phobias, the supplement in my line is called Calm Clarity. And I’ve used that one with great success with people especially veterans who come back from war and they’ve just got a lot of emotional trauma or women who’ve been through some type of abuse threonate crosses the blood brain barrier. So that’s another form of magnesium and not any one form is perfect but you can use a combination of these. So like Justin mention, you wanna cycle. Maybe you’ve got some malate here, you’ve got some citrate here—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: You can add different forms.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then we’ll put show notes and links to some of these things. So if you guys want to support the show, we always appreciate that. We’re just trying to get you the best information possible. Now, I talked about the magnesium foods. Some of the B vitamin foods, okay? Again, you’re gonna have like if you go online and look you’re gonna see the fortified ones which are gonna be cereals and orange juices which is basically crappy, crappy B vitamins.
Evan Brand: Garbage.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The worst quality. So do not count on any of the B vitamins from those foods. And number one, you shouldn’t be eating those foods, anyway coz they’re very high in sugar. With the orange juices and the grains are obviously gonna be the gluten thing which are gonna be inflammatory as well. So cut those out, nix those out. But you’re gonna do really with fish, with vegetables, with fruits, with meats, with leafy greens, egg yolks. So a lot of the Paleo versions of those are gonna have super, super high amount of B vitamins which is great.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Like Pop Tarts, like fortified with 12 vitamins and minerals. It’s like, “Oh yeah, let’s just eat pop tarts, high fructose corn syrup and genetically modified glyphosate sprayed wheat flour. We’re gonna be just fine.” Not true, not true, not true.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Remember, when you take in a lot of sugar and refined carbohydrate, all that refine carbohydrate converts to sugar and when you look at the Krebs cycle, how that Krebs cycle pumps around and it goes through all these kind of uhm—you know, reduction reactions where all these hydrogens kind of accumulate. It takes magnesium to run those cycles and if you’re basically—if it’s costing you more magnesium to run the cycle than you’re getting in, this is what we call nutrient debt, right? You’re not getting as much from it than you are— for the cost to run it, okay? So keep that in the back of your mind.
Evan Brand: Luckily the human body is resilient. I mean if that— if we we’re like a car, you and I use car analogies, if we we’re at such a nutrient debt like most people are, the car would be dead. But luckily our body will still survive. You just won’t thrive in these situations. You could have hair issues, skin issues, nail issues, like you said, autoimmune diseases, cancer, you’ve got bad skin, you’ve got acne, you’ve got poor sleep problems, you’ve got anxiety, depression, you’ve got chronic fatigue, you’ve got obesity. I mean, a lot of these diseases that have skyrocketed 10,000% over the last 20 years, there’s many, many factors that we can address in one podcast but like you mentioned, just a nutrient— the nutrient density of the soil has been reduced which is why—and I didn’t tell you this yet, but I uh—expanded my property. I bought the acre next door as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, cool.
Evan Brand: I’m gonna have a 1 acre farm and I’m gonna have as much of my food come from that as possible. Not the meats coz there’s a couple restrictions on having animals but my goal is to provide 50% is my goal. Uh— 50% of my own food. I’ve already grown stuff this year. I’ve had watermelons. Last year, I had bunch of sweet potatoes, I had strawberries, I had broccoli, carrots, all organic homegrown. There’s no more local—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.
Evan Brand: ..that you can get than your backyard.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And you can even team up with some farmers and make a deal and say, “Hey, you can use my land and I’ll give you half of what’s on there.”
Evan Brand: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Coz then you don’t have to worry about it at all. And you kinda make this deal, they get free land but they get half the food. Hey, there’s enough food for you and your family. The rest may go bad anyway, so you may end up giving it away, anyway. So that could be a good deal for you.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m gonna try to do some pecan trees and I’ve got all sorts of ideas.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. Yeah. Very cool, man. I think it’s important that uhm— people have to understand that your body is like a business. When a business starts having low profits and starts— the revenue starts dropping, the business has to either get incredibly efficient or typically, more than likely, lays people off, right? It fires people, right?
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it goes off, it fires people that are least essential to driving the profit. Well, the body does the same thing. It just starts allocating resources to other areas. Some dead skin, it’s okay, we’ll have some irritation, it will get wrinkly and creepy, it’s okay, no problem. Fingernails—weaker, more brittle; hormones will be a little bit lower that means you’ll have a lot of cycles, you know, symptoms with your cycle; you’ll have lower libido; you won’t be able to recover from strenuous work out; you won’t be able to put on muscle, that’s okay, no big deal. And uh—yeah, we won’t—we won’t put it– inflammation as much so you’ll be a little bit more achy, you know, you’ll be little bit more prone to osteopenia or osteoporosis. That’s how the body thinks. Uhm– that’s how it allocates. It’s all about survival. We are really about surviving. So those nutrients help run those systems. We really want to make sure that we have enough nutrients to run systems. There a lot of people they’re focused on calories and if you’re eating a real whole foods those calories will have nutrition, but today, it’s possible with the whole pop tart analogy or the junk food analogy, you can get a whole bunch of calories and not a lot of nutrition on the flipside. So you gotta keep that in mind.
Evan Brand: Agreed. You wanna hit a couple more questions or should we try to move the conversation into some more nutrients. I’ve had vitamin C just echoing in my brain that I have to just talk about vitamin C.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s hit that. I wanna hit one last thing on magnesium and we can tie it to vitamin C. There’s a lot of the medications that are out there will actually create nutrient deficiencies. And one of the biggest ones are the blood pressure medications, the water pills, the Hydrochlorothi—Hydrochlorothiazide, the Lisinopril, the ACE inhibitors, right, the beta blockers. These will actually create magnesium deficiency which magnesium is really important for regulating blood pressure, so that actually create more blood pressure, which creates more dependency on these medications. So you can see that vicious cycle. So keep in mind the nutrient deficiency aspect with these drugs. Same thing with birth control pills and B vitamins as well and magnesium. So those are couple of common medications. And then the granddaddy of them all is gonna be the acid blockers that will affect nutrients in many directions, B vitamins, minerals etc.
Evan Brand: Yup. The Omni— is it Omni with an “n” or is it “m”? Omne—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Omneprozol. O-M-N-E and then prozol.
Evan Brand: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: That’s great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Prilosec that’s the trade name of it. That’s the—Omneprozol is the generic. So yeah, these are the medications. These are the family of meds we got to be careful of. So, kinda tagging into your vitamin C. I’ll let you the ball with that Evan.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I just wanna—one more comment on the Prilosec.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And the thing that’s scary is these acid blockers used to be prescription and now they’re over-the-counter. So people just go to Target and they just go buy a 48 pack of these, six month supply and they throw that giant value pack 20% more pills into their shopping cart and they just go home, “Oh, yeah, Prilosec.” It’s like, “good God”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s really interesting because you know you get all the people that say, “Oh, you have to be such a super, super smart medical doctor to prescribe these drugs. They’re so dangerous. You need to have, you know, a medical Dr. kinda looking over you. And of course, that it—that is true with in a lot of cases, yeah, they contradict themselves coz then these drugs seven years later when the patent goes out, once they go generic and there’s no money behind them, they go over-the-counter.
Evan Brand: Oh my God.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Look at Ibuprofen, right? It kills 20,000 people a year and now it’s over-the-counter. It’s okay.
Evan Brand: Ugh. Insane isn’t it?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So I mean, you kinda talk on both sides of the mouth and you know, we pointed out. Uhm so, yeah, in general, the medications that you’re gonna see that are gonna be out there, primarily are gonna be the patented ones. Once that seven-year patents off or if they can create a mini-me version of it, then it’s over-the-counter and anyone can buy it. It’s up for grabs now.
Evan Brand: Fortunately, beta-blockers and antidepressants are still prescription only. So, that’s good. We’re saving a lot of issues with that. But yeah, let me get back on subject. Vitamin C is huge. It’s gonna be stored in the adrenal glands, typically.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So Justin and I are gonna measure your nutritional markers when we run organic acids testing on you. We’re gonna look at a lot of nutrients. Nine times out of 10 vitamin C shows up low because people burn through it like jet fuel, just like B vitamins that Justin mention about stress, same thing with vitamin C. There is a reference range most people aren’t even on the map. I’m seeing people at like a point level, like a decimal point level when they should be hundreds of times higher. So I’m typically gonna be using about 2000 mg and I’ve had people say, “Oh Evan, I’ve taken vitamin C for years they still show up low because they were using some garbage they got at like a health food store. Even thought it’s a health food store could still have inferior quality or it’s a consumer break— consumer grade product they bought at Whole Foods or Amazon or somewhere else. And they’re not using professional grade or they’re just using ascorbic acid only, which is decent. But to really boost up the levels, you’ve got to have the antioxidants with it. The quercetin, the rutin, the bioflavonoids.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mixed ascorbate.
Evan Brand: Yeah. You gotta have the mixed ascorbates, too. You’ve got the magnesium ascorbate, the calcium ascorbate, the sodium ascorbates. If you just do—like what is it? emergency that garbage that they sell at the check out line at Walgreens or other places where it’s not only is it just rate ascorbic acid it’s got fructose in there, too, which is gonna destroy blood sugar. That’s not gonna do anything. You could buy a year supply of that and not move the needle. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent, man. So may—uh—Vitamin C is really important. I also say selenium is one of these things that are very important as well because it’s important for thyroid conversion. Uhm— it’s important for liver detoxification, it’s important precursor for glutathione, right? And we like to give that neither like a Selenium Glycinate or Selenium Methionine kinda bound to one of these sulfur amino acids.
Evan Brand: Let me ask you this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: What do you say to all these people, “Oh, Justin, I don’t need Selenium. I eat three Brazil nuts per day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well I mean I think that’s a really good source of selenium; the problem is the amount of selenium in those brazil nuts can vary tenfold. So you could either be getting 50 µg or 500 µg. So the problem is you just don’t know how much you’re getting in each of them. So I think it’s good if you wanna do a Brazil nut or two a day. Just make sure that the uhm—the multi you’re taking guarantees you at least 200 µg of selenium per day. And I think you’re in a really really, good place.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And we talked about the absorption issue. So if somebody has got some gut bugs, doesn’t matter if you eat the Brazil nuts. You could probably eat a whole bag and not boost up selenium, if you’re deficient and you’ve got things stealing your nutrients or compromising your digestive quality.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And it’s just good to have that insurance policy with selenium. Uh—it’s gonna be hard to overdose with it if you’re in that 2 to 400 µg range and you’re using a good quality like Selenium Methionine. You’re gonna be in really good shape. And again, just kinda tag teaming, we got a lot of people talking about hormone stuff. Selenium is really important for hormones especially testosterone and then we even have Zinc, right? Whether it’s zinc aspartate or zinc methionine or uhm— zinc’s really important. The zinc fingers have a lot to do with the genetics like the DNA the epigenetics. So having enough zinc is really important to activating— having good affects our epigenome. Zinc is extremely important for making HCl. It’s a really good building block for our sex hormones as well. So gotta love zinc and when you’re stressed and you have low hydrochloric acid level, zinc can go low. And you can do is a tally test. We do some Zinc Chloride or—is it Chloride or Sulfate? I was getting confused.
Evan Brand: I think Sulfate for that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. So Zinc Sulfate. We could do a Zinc Sulfate test. The more metallic you’re tasting it is, the better— the better your Zinc is. The better or the more neutral taste, the lower your zinc is. That’s a good little kind of rule of thumb test.
Evan Brand: So people heard that, they’re like, “What the hell is he talking about?” So basically, uh—Justin and I can send a high-quality liquid Zinc Sulfate and based on the status of your zinc, that will change the flavor of the zinc. When I took this test a few years ago, I think they say, “hold it in your mouth for up to 30 seconds” So you put a little bit zinc in your mouth, you kinda gently swish it around. I swallowed it,. I tasted nothing. That was when I had all those infections. I literally tasted nothing. It tasted like water. My zinc was trashed and then as you improve infections, you get your digestion better, your supplementing with the right type of zinc, all the sudden you could put the zinc in your mouth and then it almost tastes like your licking a piece of metal like right away. That’s the goal but would you say, Justin? 95% of people they’re not going to taste the metal right away which means they’re super deficient.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean a lot of them are gonna be deficient if they have gut issues or stress issues or malabsorption those kind of thing for sure. So I think that’s a really important one look at. So we hit the Vitamin C, we hit Magnesium we hit Selenium and we hit Zinc.
Evan Brand: I’d say Omegas and vitamin D would be two others we have to mention.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think Omega-3 is really important which is—the typical Omega-3 fatty acids there is ALA Alpha Linolenic Acid. That’s the omega-3 in flaxseed oil. We have EPA which is 20-chain carbon which is Eicosapentaenoic Acid, that’s EPA. And then we have the_ DHEA. These are the 20 and 22. The EPA or the DHEA are the fats found in fish oil. These are the really important ones. These have all of the anti-inflammatory action. They help block this prostaglandin E2 pathway which gets inflammation jacked up. They also are really good building blocks for the brain and the neurological system. And the ALA are the Alpha Linolenic Acid from the flax seeds and the vegetables, that actually has to get converted via this enzyme, I think it’s Delta 5 Desaturase. And that enzyme converts the 18 carbon to the 20 carbon and things like insulin resistance and inflammation and stress can affect that conversion and knock it decreased function by 80 to 90%. So you’re not getting those really biologically active omega-3 fatty acids when you’re doing a lot of the plant-based Omega-3’s because of those mechanisms I mention. So getting the really good Omega-3’s from the fish is going to the best way. Plus the fish actually bio accumulate how the plants get it which will typically is the algae, right? A lot of the good vegetable, Omega-3 supplements vegetarian ones are gonna be algae based. Well the fish concentrate the algae. It’s kinda like the grass that cows concentrate the grass. So you’re kinda getting that bioaccumulation in a more concentrated form when you’re doing some of these really good fish oils.
Evan Brand: Well said. Yeah. Pastured meats, too, you will get some— you will get some fatty acid. So your bisons, your elk, which are my two favorites.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Your grass-fed beef, pastured pork. I would assume you’d get some from pork.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. More than likely you’re gonna get some from any of the animal products. The healthier they are, the more pastured they—the more pastured, the more biologically appropriate their diet is, uhm— the better chance that you’re gonna get more of these Omega-3 fatty acids than the more inflammatory Omega 6. But again, Arachidonic Acids are really important building block which is an Omega-6 fatty acid, but that’s gonna be a really good fat, too. So you don’t want to say, “Oh, all Omega-6 is bad. It’s just gonna really be a lot more of the Omega-6 that are gonna be driven from vegetable oils like refined vegetable oils, right? The good vegetable oils are gonna be olive oil which is a—a Oleic Acid which is really an Omega-9, your—your uhm—short chain fatty acids are gonna come from your butters and ghee which that’s gonna be more animal-based. MCT oil or your Caproic, Caprylic uhm—Lauric acids. These C6, C8, C10, C12 fatty acids, these are gonna be in the coconut. That’s great. Uh—so those are gonna be some of the really good ones to start with. All avocado oils, another really good neutral one as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I just wanna point out the fact that we’re hitting a lot of really good foundational nutrients but we could do entire episodes just on magnesium, just on vitamin C.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We have that on magnesium. I know that.
Evan Brand: I think we did. Yeah. So if—if we feel like we’re glossing over some deep aspects, then that’s okay. The vitamin D that’s huge. It’s really a hormone called vitamin but vitamin D is important we like to your levels at preferably 60 or above. I say nine out of every 10 people are gonna. be deficient in magnesium As you get older, you can’t convert sunlight into usable vitamin D as much. So even if you’re getting plenty of sun exposure which I’ve talked to people who garden for six hours a day, they are still deficient in vitamin D. And so in less— you’re like Dr. Mercola, where he said he hadn’t supplemented in seven years, something like that, 5-6-7 years, he lives at a very south latitude in Florida. He’s out on the beach hours— three hours a day with so much skin exposed and he keeps his levels at about 60. So I unless you got that amount of time and lifestyle to dedicate—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: ..to sun, it’s gonna be really tough to keep it at adequate level.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I hundred percent agree. So Vitamin D is really important. We try to do it with actual sun exposure, uhm— don’t burn, kinda get your Minimal Erythemal Dose, MED, if you will. And uhm— supplement the rest. If you can— if you just do a really good 25 hydroxy vitamin or a regular vitamin D3, mine’s uh—Emulsi D Supreme and it’s got the uh—MCT oil and the vitamin D3—D3 in there which is a really good form. Again, you can also add some K2 in it. My biggest issue is you don’t get enough vitamin D with the K2 ones but just make sure getting some really good K2 in your foods which fermented foods are gonna have a lot of K2 uhm—a healthy gut bacteria makes some K2 and then also a healthy grass-fed butter or ghee are gonna be other excellent sources of vitamin K2 as well.
Evan Brand: So Designs has one that’s got 5000 IU of D+ K warning K2. I can’t remember the name. But it’s a pretty good one and I’ve used it before think. I think—I think it’s gonna be called the Su—I think it’s Supreme.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: That’s what is it. D Supreme.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The problem is the vitamin D levels in it are very, very low. That’s the only issue.
Evan Brand: I think it’s a 5000. What are you—what are you talking about using? You talking about using 8 or 10 thousand or is 5,000 good in your eyes?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It just depends. I like doing the liquid Vitamin D just because if I need to use it therapeutically like someone’s sick, right? I may do 100,000 IUs—
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that ends up being like 20 or 30 pills. It becomes doing too hard, so it’s easier to take like 30 or 40 drops put in your smoothie and you don’t even know you had it.
Evan Brand: Well said.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I go more with the liquid, but again, your great vitamin K sources are gonna your green leafy’s, fermented foods like—like Natto, of course, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, broccoli, fermented dairy, prunes, uh—high quality uh— grass-fed butter or ghee. So you really, you know, you can get a lot of those uhm—make sure you’re getting a lot of good nutrients from those foods. Make sure their organic and that will help significantly. So if you’re doing a vitamin D, you really want to make sure that K2’s there and make sure those foods are really good in your diet and a lot of good multis and have a little bit of K2 in there, too.
Evan Brand: Good, good. Well said. Shall we look at a couple questions here?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Let’s hit them.
Evan Brand: Okay. So uh—we had a question about Mercola’s complete probiotic. It’s probably decent, Justin and I use professional grade. So if there’s a consumer grade product out there, we’re always gonna say ours is better because we’ve got healthcare manufacturers that make our products. There is very, very, very stringent restrictions in testing and manufacturing processes that we use and so were always going to push you towards our probiotics instead.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: His is probably good, though.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m sure their good. I mean Mercola’s, you know, he’s very detail oriented. So I’m sure his are good but we’re biased. So we’re gonna want you to buy ours.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So you could check out uh—justinhealth.com Check out his line. He’s got several in the gut support section and I’ve got a few formulas, too, that I’ve got on my site evanbrand.com You can check out those.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Perfect.
Evan Brand: Alright. Let’s keep going. What else as we’ve got here? Uh— Robert he asked, “What foods and supplements can you take to speed up restoring low secretory IGA?” What do you think? I think a lot of the gut supports like the leaky gut formulas, your slippery elm, your marshmallow roots, chamomile flowers, anything that’s kinda fix a leaky gut situation maybe some mushrooms to support the IGA for the immune system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think making sure the infections are gone, number one. Making sure the diet’s good. Making sure you’re breaking down the foods that you’re eating. Uhm— number three, once the infections gone, adding in a lot of the healing nutrients. So in my line, we use one called, GI Restore, which is a lot of those same nutrients. Uhm—it’s got the glutamine, it’s got the slippery Elm, the aloe, the DGL, a lot of the healing, soothing nutrients. Getting the probiotics up is gonna be really helpful, you know, the Lactobacillus, the Bifidobacter strands, various strands there. Also very high amounts Saccharomyces Boulardiis is proven to help improve IgA levels. So those are really good things that you can add in there. And just making sure the adrenals are supported.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because a healthy cortisol levels have a impact on your immune system which has an impact on your IgA. Coz your IgA is that mucosal that first-line defense for your immune system.
Evan Brand: Yes. So chronic stress, too, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: If you’re taking all the supplements in the world but you have a terrible boss and you hate your life, you’ve got to address that chronic stress component coz that’s gonna be the number one cause that’s going to drive down the secretory IgA.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.
Evan Brand: Uh—there’s another question here. There was a supplement a person had to had a tiny bit of soy lecithin in it should they be concerned? What’s your take?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wouldn’t worry about soy lecithin. It’s tough. Uhm—soy lecithin is more of an emulsifier. It’s more to help with the digestion and the mixing of that product is typically not gonna be soy protein in that.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The soy protein is really what causes the problems. Lecithin’s more of an emulsifier. So as long as it’s a good quality product uhm— I’m okay with there being a little bit of soy lecithin in there.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And I’ve got a couple formulas that have it in there. I’ve had people say, “Oh my God, I’m allergic to soy.” They’re fine. They have no issue. that’s not actually— it’s such a— it’s such an extracted form that it’s not like you’re eating soy. You’re not eating soybean.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. And then in my line, I think I may just have a few that have soy lecithin in there. But we were able to make sure that it’s guaranteed that it’s non-GMO soy. So you really want to make sure it’s at least non-GMO soy lecithin. And as long as that’s there, I’m okay with it.
Evan Brand: And it’s gonna be a tiny amount. When you look at the formula we’re talking and the other ingredients, it’s not an active ingredient. So could be 1% of the formula.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And less, you know, single digits fraction of percents for sure.
Evan Brand: Yup. Good. What else we’ve got here? If you feel like hitting this and we can, we can save it for another day—symptoms of chronic intestinal infections. I think we hit on that already with the hair, the skin, the nails, the acne, depression, anxiety, fatigue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. All your— all your common symptoms, right? Your uhm— your intestinal symptoms: bloating, gas, diarrhea, constipation, bloating, acid reflux. And then your extra intestinal which are all the mood-based and energy-based: fatigue, mood, joint pain, depression, anxiety. Those kind of things, sleep,—
Evan Brand: Autoimmunity—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hormone stuff, autoimmunity. And we got a whole podcast on that. So just google digestion or parasites or leaky gut and you’ll get a whole bunch of podcast and videos on that topic.
Evan Brand: Cool. Robert said he loved our podcast on histamine and it hit home prior to having infections no foods were problem, uh—post infection, fermented foods read havoc on him. So thanks for the podcast. Thanks for the feedback Robert. We love to hear that the histamine podcast was a killer one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m looking forward to chatting with you soon, Robert. I know uhm—you’ve been doing good work on your— on yourself there with uh— some of those good informational put in the podcast. But if you need more support, let us know. I’d get retested. Make sure we get to the root cause coz if those issues are still there with the post histamine stuff, there may be some additional critters hanging around.
Evan Brand: Yep. I agree. Another question about chronic dry eyes. “How often have you seen this with your patients? I’m working on healing the gut do you think there could be other root causes to dry eyes?” Justin, what’s your take?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Chronically low cortisol. You’ll see load—you’ll see dry eyes. Typically, get your diet stable. Once your diet’s stable, you can add a lower carbohydrate kinda diet. If those dry eyes are still there, gently taper out that carbohydrate every couple of days. You know, 10- 15 g of carbs primarily at nights. Do the safe starchy versions: squash, sweet potatoes, plantains, those kind of things. And you may see those dry eyes start to go away. You can even try a tablespoon of coconut oil and a teaspoon of honey, right, before bed as well that may help.
Evan Brand: Cool. So what else we’ve got? “Can I re-infect myself with H. pylori with makeup like lipsticks that I’ve used when I had H. pylori? I’ve no idea what the lifespan of that is on the product.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It is possible. I mean I would just look at uhm—the lipstick stuff. Maybe just get a razor blade and cut that end off there. I think you’d probably be okay with that. Uhm— typically, you know, as you knock out the infection, you know, you’d still be using it. So eventually, you’d wear off that but I think if you wanna be on the safe side, I think that’s a good thing to keep in mind. Even more important uhm—things that you can quite excise as easy like partners, right? Spouses. Ideally getting them at least treated semi- “semi” meaning maybe we only use one supplement just coz the compliance is so important. I would really be more—more imperative on the spouses and the partners.
Evan Brand: I agree. Partners are probably much bigger issue, much bigger carrier and reinfection source than your makeup and lipstick. I don’t know of any high-quality lipstick. Maybe they’re out there, but I would just throw that stuff away and maybe does discontinue using lipstick, too. I doubt you’re missing out on much in you know it’s— there’s parabens and all sorts of other stuff.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And they have some really good things on the market now that do a lot like food-based ones where they are like extracting cherries and all these different food-based ones that kinda produces the fruit-based stain and kinda gives you a similar look but it’s using nutrition and foods versus, you know, some of the synthetic things.
Evan Brand: Uhh..okay, okay. So maybe you— maybe you stick with the lipstick then. Alright. James said he had a over sympathetic—let’s see having over sympathetic with sexual activity does blood pressure med Norvasc affect ED issues? That’s kinda like—I don’t even fully understand what you’re saying coz it’s kinda like a piece together thing. Are you understanding what he’s asking?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think what he’s saying is those medications have a potential side effect of erectile dysfunction? I would just go to RXlist.com and put that medication in there and look at that long list of side effects. I can—I can do it from right here while we continue with the conversation. What was the medication called again?
Evan Brand: It’s N-O-R-V-A-S-C. Norvasc.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool. I’ll pull it up here in a second. N-O-R-V-A-S-C?
Evan Brand: N-O-R-V-A-S-C. as in Charlie.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Norvasc. Got it. Okay, cool.
Evan Brand: Then he’s saying, even with Viagra, it doesn’t correct lack of sensitivity. So, yeah, I mean here’s my easy quick answer. If you didn’t have those symptoms before and now you’re on this drug and those symptoms are happening, how could that not be a factor?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. This is a an—an—Am—Amlodipine, which is a basically a calcium channel blocker, okay? Which is a calcium channel blocker, which again, magnesium kind of does the same thing, FYI. And if we look at the side effects, uh—feelings like you may pass out, swelling in your hands feet and ankles, pounding heart beat or fluttering on your chest, chest pain, heavy pain spreading arms and shoulders, nausea, general ill and there’s more uhm— side effects as well. So—
Evan Brand: It’s like a commercial all of a sudden.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know, right? Let me see here: dizziness, drowsiness, tired, stomach pain—
Evan Brand: What is this—what is that? That’s for blood pressure? Is that right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. This is for blood pressure medication, but I think what you said is the best advice if that wasn’t there before and then you started taking the medication and it started happening, as long as your blood pressure is not too bad and you could taper down or you could come off with your doctor’s approval, uhm— I would have no problem doing that and seeing if those symptoms improve, then you know. Coz in the end, if it’s not a side effect on RX list.com but you take the meds out and it gets better, does it really matter that they say it is? We know clinically, right?
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.
Evan Brand: There’s so many ways. Didn’t we do a whole podcast—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Don’t—don’t come off. If your blood pressure is 160-170 and you’re on blood pressure medications, coz it will go that high afterwards, don’t come off it. You really want to make sure that if you’re on a medication and you wanted to try and see if there’s an issue, one, fix the root causes; but two, talk to the medical doctor that prescribed it and make sure they’re in concurrence—you know, in agreement with you on the taper that you’re going to do. Make sure they are on the same page.
Evan Brand: Yes. Some people they go to the other end of the spectrum where there are so anti-pharmaceutical that “I’m getting off of this.” That’s bad. You— that’s like stroke territory. So don’t do that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You just gotta be careful. Some people if you’re like 130 or 140 over like 80 or 90, not too bad. You could probably come off as long as you’re fixing other root issues, but just have a blood pressure cuff by your bed, test it in the morning, see where you’re at. Just you— you want to do it responsibly. If you do it and you want to get to the prescribing doctor on the same page as you. You don’t want to go rogue.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Any other questions you wanna hit up?
Evan Brand: Uh let’s see. What else we’ve got.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have one here. We got one on Facebook here from Michelle or from
Mitchell. “Can L- tyrosine for dopamine support be too stimulating? How much should be taken to minimize side effects?” Yeah. It can be for some people. Uhm— tyrosine can kinda provide precursor supports to dopamine which then above that can go to adrenaline, so it can be. I think starting at 500 mg and working up to maybe, potentially 3 to even 6 g a day is okay. But start low and slow and if you know that it is stimulating, use it more in that first half of the day not the last half of the day.
Evan Brand: Yup. That’s a simple fix. Good answer. Uh—Nora had a follow-up here. “Thanks for answering the question. So can I successfully eradicate H. pylori and other pathogens as if I live with people who have it. Do they have to do treatment in parallel with me?” Well, if you’re sexually active with people, you’re kissing or simple enough, even just sharing straws, sharing cups, drinking after each other, that’s enough to infect them. So even if it’s not a partner, but it’s someone, “Oh, hey, let me have a drink of that.” That’s enough to still pass H. pylori. Justin and I have seen it hundreds of times.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The stronger your immune system is, it becomes less of an issue so like with Evan and myself, we have stronger immune systems coz we work on that. We maybe less prone because our IgA levels are up high enough where the tiny bit of that in your system, our IgA would squash it. But if your IgA is lower and you got more the stress going on and you have poor hydrochloric acid levels, then for sure. That could happen.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And I had low IgA, too. So that’s something that you’d want it measured Nora and check with the stool testing and look for your IGA figure out which your first line of defense is looking like. If it’s low and weak, you’ve just got a lot of chronic stress, then, yeah, you’re gonna be more susceptible to—to pick it up. But to answer the question, “Could you eradicate it?” If you live with other people, yeah, you could but there’s gotta be a lot of things in your favor and you’re not sharing or sharing cups or drinking for most people or kissing them etc. Uhm— Anthony—well there’s one question about—from Anthony. He said, “It’s been over five years with gut issues, irregular stools, many doctor visits.” He found out that he had a whey and casein allergy. “Where should you start to get help?” Oh, wow! That’s a hard one to answer. Uh—right here. Justin and myself. justinhealth.com evanbrand.com I mean we’ve dealt with people who’ve already been to many doctors. I mean it’s such a common story. We always asked the question, “Hey, kinda give us your history. What—what’s been your experience with other practitioners? What have you tried to help? What have you tried that hasn’t helped?” I’d say 90% of people we talked with they’ve already been to a either a Gastro doctor or some other type of doc for their gut issues and they’ve had no success and only prescription drugs like I got recommended to myself anti-spasmodic, anti-acid drugs. If you’ve got a regular Bell’s, man, you’ve got infections. I can put money on it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I’m a huge believer— I want every patient to at least go in the conventional medical workup before they come see functional docs or functional practitioners like ourselves just to rule out big picture pathology stuff. You know, it just makes it so we at least know that the big glaring stuff is at least been looked at and addressed and assessed. And now we’re looking more functional imbalances which is really what functional medicine is treating. It’s not medicine from a conventional disease based medicine; it’s medicine from a uh— nutritional kind of support perspective working on supporting systems, not treating symptoms and disease.
Evan Brand: Yup. We’ll take one more question here. Uh from Charlotte O: “How do you feel about NOW foods brand supplements my health coach is using them on me. I think NOW foods is okay it’s once again, a consumer grade product, so it is going to be likely less high-quality. I have seen some fillers and some of their products. I have seen them do some inferior forms of certain nutrients; however, they’ve also got a lot of really good products, too, where they’re stepping up their game in they’re using the methylated bees and the higher qualities with the Omega’s, so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And plus, people doesn’t know. NOW has another line. It’s a higher up line. It’s called “Protocols For Life” That’s their higher-grade line. So if you like NOW, look at Protocols For Life.
Evan Brand: Is protocol uh—will that have to be through practitioner or is that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Couldn’t say it’s a practitioner one but it’s a little bit higher grade but it’s—it’s made by the same company. It’s their one step up.
Evan Brand: But overall what’s your take on NOW?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean I think they’re okay for certain things. You know, uhm— so as a kind of initial kinda get in your foot in the door kinda thing, I think it’s okay. But of course, you know, we—we have are our bias because were trying to get the highest quality in everything. And part of that is because we actually work with patients face to face. It’s not like they go online and buy something, we never see them again. We’re working with them face-to-face so we have to know that what we’re recommending is the best because we need to seek clinical outcome. So we have to know that. So it’s a little bit different for us because we gotta go all out and make sure that nothing is held back.
Evan Brand: Right. So when you’ve got these other companies and people out there promoting stuff, they’re not working with people one-on-one. So it comes directly back on Justin or directly back on me if we give him our product and it doesn’t work. That’s not very sustainable for us. So that’s why it’s much, much better enough for us. That’s why we have access for people that don’t work with us. We allow other people outside to access our uh—products because they’ve been tried and true and tested. And if they didn’t work with people, we wouldn’t carry them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And if it doesn’t work, too, then it allows us to say, “Okay, there’s not some crappy filler or there’s some sub—sub nutrient in there. Let’s look a little bit deeper.” So it gives us the confidence that we just need to look deeper now. So it’s gonna be on both sides.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And just a firsthand experience with NOW foods and the secondhand, I guess, through clients. I’ve had people taking like their super enzymes, for example, and I get their digestive health markers investigated on the urine and stool test, and it looks terrible. Their digestion is not working at all even with the high dose of their enzymes. So does that mean the quality is bad? Does that mean they’re not dosing it properly? Maybe they’re not consistent as much. I don’t know. Probably a combination of factors, but I always switch over people over to my professional enzymes and then I retest and then all of a sudden, it’s fixed. Is it compliance? Is it quality? Probably both.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And you know everyone has got their bias and we kinda state our bias there. You know, we’re trying to be uhm— super transparent. Uhm—but yeah, I think there 95% of companies that are out there are bad. But I think that would be in that—I would say they’re in that 5% at least are better, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s it for questions. Anything else you want to hit before we wrap it up. I think we did pretty good today.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think James uh—who is it—someone came out there—was it James—Yeah. James asked about Tom Brady. Again, love Tom Brady. Huge Patriots fan. Again Tom Brady does lots of things I would say go back and check out the podcast I did on him a year and a half ago for more specifics but he does use the green stuff. He does kinda promote like a Paleo-Alkaline diet. A lot of people have really uh—let’s just say Tom Brady like have a vegan cook. So because he had a vegan cook, Tom Brady was now on a vegan diet. No. He eats 20% meat. That’s far from vegan, okay? So just kinda keep that in the back of your mind. A lot of misnomers about Tom and he has a lot of a different training uh—modalities, too, that I’m hoping— I would love to get Tom Brady’s coach or strength coach on there.
Evan Brand: Or just get Tom Brady and the coach in a three-way podcast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would love that, man. I would love to hang out with Tom and get some secrets down. That’d be awesome. I think he may need to wait til he retires to truly unveil some of the stuff. But we’ll see.
Evan Brand: That’s true. That’s true. Well, reach out. I’m sure there’s a media/press person and tell him, “Look, we’ve got insanely popular health podcast. Uh— we’d like to interview Tom and his coach.” But yeah, they’d probably be like, “No way, dude. We’re not giving you the secret sauce, hold on.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. I know. Exactly, so— I know Alex Guerrero is— is his—uh coach that does a lot of the stuff. So I mean— really, really interested to get Alex on a uh— podcast. That’d be freaking awesome.
Evan Brand: Never hurts to ask.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, absolutely, man.
Evan Brand: Well, let’s wrap this thing up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We had a great call today. I’m late for my next patient here, but uhm—keep dropping knowledge bombs all day, man. Really enjoyed this call with you. Anything else you want to add or say?
Evan Brand: Well I think we mentioned it all. If people wanna work with us, we work with people around the world. So Skype and phone consultations is what we do and all the lab testing except for blood you do at your house. So if you want to get help, get to the root cause, reach out justinhealth.com or Google Dr. Justin Marchegiani or myself evanbrand.com or type in Evan Brand. Find us. Subscribe. And if you have more questions, concerns, get a hold of us. That’s what we’re here for. We love helping people. That’s what makes us thrive so we won’t help you thrive, too. So, have a great day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And leave some comments below. If you like this podcast, tell us. Tell us what you like. If you don’t like stuff, tell us what you don’t like. And tell us what you want us to talk about next time and give us a thumbs up. Give us a share. We really appreciate it, guys. And you all have an awesome day, Take care you all.
Evan Brand: Take care.
Lowering Histamine Naturally – Getting to the root cause of high histamine – Live Podcast #154
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a discussion about histamine. Listen as they talk about finding the root cause and driving factor of the issues related to histamine. Learn all about the symptoms associated with histamine issues and find out how problems with the adrenals, hormones, gut, diet and lifestyle contribute to these issues.
Know how some of the medications like anti-depressants, immune modulators and beta-blockers are related to nutrient deficiency. Gain information regarding higher histamine foods and natural supplements. Apply some of the natural solutions and recommendations regarding diet and lifestyle that would address histamine issues.
In this episode, we cover:
04:12 DAO& HNMT: role in our bodies
08:13 Medications and nutrient deficiencies
10:38 Higher Histamine Foods
18:39 Natural Supplements to lower histamine
21:57 Toxic mold
28:42 Diet and Healthy enzymes
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live on YouTube. Evan, to it’s Dr. J here. How are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, man, Happy Wednesday! You and I have been pulling out the research books today. We’re like, “Hey, let’s make sure we know everything as— as much as possible about histamine.” A few have been asking you, asking myself, you’ve done interviews with histamine experts and what was it, the histamine chef is that who you chatted with?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yup. Yasmina Ykelenstam. She’s the histamine chef and we did a podcast last year on this topic. And uhm lot of good stuff, we’re kinda rehash some of the key take homes, we’ll talk about getting to the root cause and we’ll also talk about ways that we can supplement and just support histamine issues in general, more specifically.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So what you and I were talking about affairs. We— we don’t really market ourselves necessarily, it’s like, “Hey, histamine practitioner” There’s a lot of people the kind of attached the word “histamine” to their name or to their marketing efforts, but, you and I, as we start to dig deeper and find root causes of the histamine intolerance which we’ll talk about exactly what this means, we’re fixing histamine intolerance just as a side effect of doing all the other good work we’re doing to support the adrenals and support the immune system and ensuring that people are free of infections and fixing neurotransmitters like all the stuff, Oopp, it just happens to fix histamine intolerance.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Like in the functional medicine world, you know, there is ways that you can market to so you can kinda row people in specifically coz you talk to their issues, but again, if you really are a good functional medicine practitioner, clinician, you’re hitting all of the body system. So in general, you’re not gonna really miss anything but there are ways that we can dive in deeper to issues such as histamine. And we’re gonna try to do that today. We’ll kinda zone out a bit. So we have like the big picture perspective, so people don’t forget what the root causal things that can’t be ignored are, and then we’ll also talk about you know, palliative things we can do on top of just the—the functional medicine principal stuff to get even better results.
Evan Brand: Sure. So should we start with some symptoms? What exactly people are noticing when they’re coming to us and they’re saying, “Hey, I think I have a histamine issue and I believe it could be coming from my diet.” We’ve got symptoms like headaches, could be anxiety, it could be your face flushing, it could be an itchy tongue or runny nose. What— what else am I missing symptom wise?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Headaches. All those different things. It could be flushing, it could be even hives or the eukaryotes, those wheels that come up on the skin uhm— those can be all, you know, things that are happening. And again, what’s histamine doing? Histamine is a neurotransmitter. And there are various receptor sites for histamine in the body. There’s you know, H1 or histamine 1. Histamine 2, 3 and 4. And again, these things can control for instance, smooth muscle and endothelial tissue that affects blood vessels. This is what like Benadryl and like Claritin would—would utilize. So if you have like an allergic reaction and like your skin get super blown up, right? That’s why you do like Benadryl, right? Or histamine two controls acid secretion and abdominal pain. So histamine can also increase acid as well. It can also increase the heart rate. Histamine three has an effect on controlling the nerves, sleep behavior, appetite. Histamine four has an effect on the intestines, the spleen the colon, white blood cells and the inflammatory response. So it’s kind like this, right? You take your hammer; you whack your thumb, and all of these different reactions that happen, right? So you can look at all of the clotting factors and the cytokines and all of the inflammation and the white blood cell mobilization. And if you just kinda zone back, zone back, zone back, what caused it all? The hammer. So we’ll kinda zoom in, alright, what’s happening and the nitty-gritty, but then we’ll kinda zoom out and say, “Okay, what’s the hammer in this analogy?” Coz if we can focus on the hammer, it’s way easy to wrap your head around, “Don’t whack your hand—don’t whack your thumb with a hammer than it is to look at all of the nitty-gritty. But we’ll kinda do both. So people that are looking to nerd out a little bit, kinda get satisfied and the people that just want the action items get satisfied, too.
Evan Brand: Sure. So let me just pronounce what we’re actually talking about. Diamine Oxidase also known as DAO, so basically, this is an enzyme that we’re making on our own in our body which is basically just like when we’re talking about proteases and lipases and lactases and just different digestive enzymes. DAO is an enzyme that’s basically going to find, it’s gonna seek out like the CIA, it’s gonna find the bad guy which is gonna be excess histamine in your foods and it’s can help break those down it could be foods or beverages so we’ll talk about the alcohol component in DAO when it works properly, it can break down up to 99% of the histamine. And then there’s 1% of histamine that actually enter circulation but we’ll talk about some of the root causes here. There could be going on with the gut. When you’re deficient in DAO, which is why you can supplement, which Justin told me off air, “Man, this stuff is sold out everywhere.” But when you’re supplementing with it or you’re fixing the root causes, and your getting your DAO in time to be back in adequate amounts, you’re able to break down the histamine and you no longer have histamine intolerance, which is why people can take DAO supplements and they can feel better but you’ve always got to work back to the root cause of other issues why is it not working in the first place.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s also this DAO which is Diamine Oxidase and there is also another one called HNMT Histamine N-Methyl Transferase and these both have an effect of breaking down histamine. So if we take off our functional medicine root cause hat and we put on our palliative natural medicine hat, we wanted to just control symptoms, well, we can give enzymes like DAO which has been backordered for years. They are typically extracted from kidney or thymus tissue and big back order for a while, but we can give those to help lower histamine, alright? Coz that enzyme helps break histamine down so, you know, it’s like someone that has a lactose intolerance issue, they may take Lactaid which is milk enrich with lactase, the enzyme, right, to break down the milk, the milk sugar and they have less diarrhea. So kinda into that perspective where we’re adding in the enzyme to be able to break things down uh— which can be helpful from a palliative perspective. Uh— number two, we can avoid— we can make sure we have all the nutrients required to make a lot of these enzymes. So like the HNMT enzyme, we need SAMI, right? We need SAMI, S- Adenosyl Methionine which is really important for MTHFR. Uhm the Diene Oxidase we also need B6, we need copper, some of these other enzymes to for histamine processing, right? We need B2; we need iron; we need B5, right? And a lot of these nutrients we’re also gonna deplete with adrenal dysfunction, too. So you can see how adrenal issues and low histamine can be affected. Anytime you see B vitamins we know how important healthy gut bacteria is for producing B vitamins. So you can see, if we have a dysbiosis or SIBO, we have food allergens driving inflammation, driving leaky gut and/or gastrointestinal permeability, that can all affect our ability to make enzymes to lower and process histamine.
Evan Brand: Well said. So any gut infection, I mean, Justin and I that’s one of the things that we work on so much because it’s so common you probably heard our stories but, you know, I had H. pylori, I had parasites, I had bacterial overgrowth, I had yeast and all that’s driving leaky gut. So if you got something like H. pylori, for example, which we see every single week on lab results when we’re looking at people, the H. pylori is going to suppress the stomach acid and so if you’ve got undigested food, even that alone, could be causing leaky gut, therefore causing low DAO, therefore causing you to have “cortical histamine intolerance”. So if you work with a practitioner on histamine, we’ll talk about the diet piece in a second, but you’ve got to get the gut in healthy spot. You’ve got to fix the—the diet. Make sure that the gluten is out of the diet, or anything that could be causing a leak ego situation; otherwise, you’re just setting yourself up for failure. And then, surprisingly enough, which maybe you know more about this than I do, but it’s interesting that a lot of these medi—medications, I don’t know the mechanism but like antidepressants like Cymbalta, Prozac, Zoloft, you’ve got the immune modulators like Humira and Enbrel. You’ve got the Metaprololol, the beta-blockers; you’ve got Zyrtec and Benadryl. All of these things are causing the DAO enzyme to become deficient. I mean I guess the mechanism isn’t too important but it is interesting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well I think some of the mechanism pretty straightforward. Uhm— a lot of this is via nutrient deficiencies. A lot of these medications create nutrient deficiencies and a lot of these nutrition these nutrient deficiencies and a lot of these nutrition deficiencies revolve primarily around B vitamins and minerals. So it makes sense. If we create deficiency with B vitamins and minerals, of course, that’s gonna create more issues. I mean it’s like blood pressure. If you look at the acid block—the beta-blockers or the uhm—water pills like hydrochlorothiazide or the Lasix.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They are either diuretics but they create deficiencies with potassium and magnesium, which are really important for blood pressure. So you can see a lot of these drugs actually can make the problem worse. It’s an amazing business model if you’re only looking at you know the money factor, but if you’re looking at fixing the root cause, like we are, it’s definitely not good. You wanna really back up.
Evan Brand: Agree. Well said. You wanna talk about diet?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just to kinda—just to kinda back out just a little bit. Uhm—we talk about the nutrient deficiencies, right? We talked about medications and antibiotics, antacids, antihistamines, right? Uhm—We talked about uhm—well, I’m gonna add it, nutrient stressors. So if we have more stress, more adrenal stress, more fatigue, poor sleep, inflammatory diet, that’s gonna drive more in a higher increase in histamine. If we have hormonal imbalances whether we’re estrogen dominant or that we have adrenal dysfunction, right? Imbalance in our stress hormones, cortisol, rhythm issues, a lot of that’s gonna be driven by a lot of these lifestyle stressors. That’s gonna really create more histamine issues. Now, I always backup. How do we know someone has a histamine issue? Well, do they have any of those histamine symptoms we mentioned in the beginning? Coz we know histamine does a few things. It helps increase heartbeat; it helps with gastric acid secretion; it opens the blood vessels, hence why when, you get allergies or allergic reaction, you swell. It helps increase bronchial dilation; it helps with gut permeability; it increases adrenaline. But if people get headaches or flushed or rashes or headaches with higher histamine foods, we definitely take notice. And those higher histamine foods, the big one, is going to be fermented foods. Do you get worse with fermented foods? Do things like teas create, you know, problems? If you have bone broth, does that create problems? Does citrus fruits create problems? Do meats over, you know, they’re too old, create problems? Uhm—does chocolate and coffee create problems? So if we start seeing issues with some of those symptoms, I really look a little bit closer to see what could be the driving factor.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ll list down a couple of more, too. Kombucha—that’s gonna be popular for our crowd, our community.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: Yogurts, even if it’s like a grass-fed yogurt, your sauerkraut, if you’re having flare-ups, I’ve had some women that said have flare-ups on their skin after doing sauerkraut, that’s a sign right there and then alcohol, too. So wine, beers, champagnes even if it’s organic wine, it’s not gonna matter. Cured meats— so salami, could be pepperoni, the beloved bacon—bacon an issue, unfortunately for the time being. You mention the citrus fruit, aged cheese and then nuts— walnuts, cashews, peanuts, avocados. I believe— I don’t know if it was histamine, but I had something going on where I had to pull out avocados for like six weeks. I was having headaches from them. It was no other foods. It wasn’t any other nuts and seeds but I believe I had—I’m gonna guess a histamine issue because why else would avocados give me a headache?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, exactly. Yeah, totally. So—
Evan Brand: I was doing like everyday they’re so good and so easy to add to a meal, so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then we also have things like mast cell activation disorder, right? Histamines produced by mast cells, so you got these like basophils, which are like in our white blood cells, right? They’re like one of the smallest amount of white blood cells are basophils. And these basophils go into our blood straight to our tissue. They become uhm—mast cells. And these mast cells will produce histamine, alright? So then you have this thing like called mast cell activation disorder. So like the more inflamed you become, right, the more your body tends to dysfunction. And—and you get more names for that kind of inflammation whether it’s IVD or IBS or mast cell activation disorder or some type of you know, allergic issue or some type of autoimmune issue. You can just go through all the different names. The more inflamed someone gets, the more symptoms. And basically diseases are nothing more than grouping a constellation of symptoms together. That’s why it’s funny when people tell me, “I just need a diagnosis.” Well, a diagnosis is nothing more than someone in the medical field taking a set of symptoms that have been, you know, trace for you know, many, many years into a disease name and someone studied and published. But it doesn’t do anything, it just basically groups these symptoms together and maybe there’s a drug for it, which is typically how a disease, you know, gets name because of the drug or treatment for the most part. But in the end, does it really help you fix the issue? A lot of times, “No”. But it gives people relief to know that it’s something, but again, if you’re depressed and you’re stuck on antidepressant your whole life, well, do you really feel good about that if you’re not fixing the issue? Maybe not.
Evan Brand: Right and I had a—I had a diagnosis of IBS, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: We have no idea what’s going on but here’s some acid blockers I was never talked to about the root cause ever. So, for me, if you’re seeking a diagnosis, I would just let that attachment go because you really don’t need a term for the symptoms. We just need to figure out what’s going on. So, you mention the diet piece, we hit the gut piece, we hit the—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Adrenal and hormone deficiency, too, I think.
Evan Brand: Say that again.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We hit the adrenal and hormone piece, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Adrenals. That’s very important. So, how should we go about this? I mean, we’ve— we put all the pieces on the table, now how should we arrange this kinda step 1-2-3-4-5? Diet first?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, off the bat, I would say, look at like kind of like your histamine bucket or your stress bucket. Everything goes in that bucket. Some people—it just sucks, they are brought into this world with the poor genetic constitution and their bucket’s smaller. What that means is they just can’t tolerate as much stuff. That means, hey, if they got a little bit of gluten and a little bit of stress, their bucket is full. Some people can have a lot more things. They could have some medications in there, some stress and sleep, some poor food, some nutrient deficiency, and then maybe their symptoms start to increase. Now, again, over time, we naturally have a smaller bucket overtime because our hormones become less restorative the older we get. So we just want to make sure that we know that theirs is bucket mindset and the more we take stressors out of the bucket, we can make a small bucket uhm— we can add more space to it. So someone that’s got a big bucket but is three quarters full, well, if we have a smaller bucket that’s a hundred percent empty, we may create more resiliency for us, even though our bucket, genetically, is smaller. So we have control. We’re not victims. We just got to be honest with ourselves. If we got a small bucket, we just gotta be on point more frequently. So, we do that by working on blood sugar stability, we do that with the baseline Paleo template, that you can work on customizing with your functional medicine doc regarding what that looks like macro wise and whether or not uhm—you have to add an extra digestive support to be able to breakdown the proteins and fats that’s important. Now we can look at the hormones, if there are significant hormone or adrenal issues, we gotta work on it because that helps improve our ability to regulate blood sugar inflammation and stress. And then, we also got to look at our hormones, too. We have significant hormonal imbalances, we have to work on supporting that so we can develop our healthier cycle or healthier anabolic hormones. We could put on muscle and recover. And then, of course, this goes without saying, gut issues. Coz if we have dysbiosis, leaky gut, we have chronic infections like H. pylori or Blasto or Crypto or Entamoeba histolytica or Giardia. Any of these parasites are gonna create leaky gut. They’re gonna create more nutrient deficiencies. And a lot of these nutrient deficiencies are needed to make healthy DAO or HNMT enzymes to break down histamine. And these enzymes, all these nutrients also help make healthy uh— nutrients for a detoxification system as well.
Evan Brand: Well said. So you got to get tested. That’s our philosophy—Test, don’t guess. I mean, you could probably fix maybe 50% of the issue just by working with a good nutritionist, their practitioners are gonna help you dial in the diet, right? Just getting that piece started even if you’re closer to an AIP approach, you are already gonna be eliminating a lot of the problematic foods including alcohol. So if you’re working with a nutritionist, you make it 50% there, but to get fully better, adrenals— test them, we’re gonna run the stool panel, we’re gonna look for infections that way. We’re gonna look for a lot of problems on the organic acids, too. Fungus, yeast Clostridium bacteria, uh— detox problems. I mean, all of that is a factor, so there’s never gonna be just one silver bullet. If somebody tries to sell you my online histamine course and there’s like one silver bullet they’re promoting, I would be skeptical because like any topic we discussed, there’s 20-30 maybe 50 factors that all need to be factored into that pie chart which is the pie chart being your problem. How is that problem broken down? Maybe it’s 50% adrenals for one person, but it could be 5% adrenals for another person. If they’ve got a super positive attitude about it, that could change things, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So we fix the nervous system stimulation, the stress— that’s the diet and lifestyle, that’s also the adrenals. We fix the gut bacterial imbalance, which could be infections, it could be just low beneficial bacteria. We cut out the high histamine foods. We cut out the histamine blocking, the DAO blocking foods: coffee tea etc. And we try to add lower histamine, paleo foods, in the meantime, which typically are gonna be uhm— low sugar fruits, the citrus-free, typically vegetables are gonna be okay, uh—typically fresh meats are gonna be okay. Healthy fats, maybe minus avocado, are gonna be okay. Uh— avoid the—you know, the aged meats and fermented foods for a period of time. But as we get the gut healed and we fix these issues, we should be able to get better and better and better. And then there also additional supplements we can add in as well. They can make a difference. So in my line, we use one called, Aller Clear, that I formulated that has things like, stinging nettles, it’s got promalin, potassium bicarb uh—these are things that have been used for a long time to help lower histamine naturally. Uhm— big big fan of that. Uhm—let’s see. What else can we do on top of that? I got my list here. Quercetin, like I mentioned, vitamin C, these are in Aller Clear as well to help lower histamine levels naturally. Well I also did a research on that. Grapefruit, seed extract and pycnogenol, which are in these kinda category of league Proantothocyanidin which are these kinda antioxidant bioflavonoid and some of these really good uhm—fruits that can be helpful. We have green tea. Again, it can be a natural antihistamine but can also be a DAO blocker so you got take that with a grain of salt. Uh—magnesium can also be very helpful, stinging nettle can helpful, omega-3 fatty acids uh—can be helpful, uh— some essential oils— peppermint, lavender, lemon can also be helpful. Again, but be careful because some of them are citrus there. You just got to test it out. And of course, a lot of the herbs to help knock down dysbiosis can help in the long run so like the berberines and the goldenseal can also be very helpful as well. So a lot of different alternatives there. Any other comments or concerns, Evan?
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m guessing some of the medicinal mushrooms can help, too. I’m not too familiar on the exact mechanism, but I’m assuming things like reishi, cordyceps mushrooms. I’m guessing those may help too depending on how they were grown, of course, uh—would probably make a difference modulating the immune system can be helpful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Is there any other questions or comments you wanna add before we start hitting up some of our listeners questions. I don’t think so. Let’s hit the questions. I’m gonna pull them up, so I can see here, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. And if you guys uhm—putting comments in the live chat if you can kinda keep the questions kinda pertinent to the topic, it always helps and again, right now, for answering your question and you like it, give us a thumbs up right now, give us a share, give us a like. We appreciate it. We get really pumped and motivated coz of that.
Evan Brand: Should you—should you interview—uh, not interview—Should you introduce us, I mean I don’t know, maybe we’ve got new people that don’t even know who are these two guys talking about histamine all of a sudden. Should we briefly do that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely.
Evan Brand: Alright. Tell us who you are.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I’m Dr. Justin Marchegiani, a functional medicine specialist, a functional medicine Doc and yeah, I see patients all over the world and we work on chronic health issues, from hormone to gut, to detox autoimmune issues and you know, we’re trying to always get to the root cause so that’s me.
Evan Brand: Absolutely. I’m Evan Brand, functional medicine practitioner and Justin and I been doing this— doing this hustle on the podcast for— for several years. We’ve got hundreds of episodes together and I also work virtually with people via Skype and phone. And we do the live thing because we get comments like this, so let’ dive in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we’re the real deal. We don’t get a script here. We’re, we’re on-the-fly taking our clinical knowledge and plugging it into you guys, so you guys, the listeners can get healthier which—which is our purpose here.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So off the bat, couple things, uhm— I just saw here, Dale made a comment here about toxic mold. So yeah, I’ll connect Dale’s comment to toxic mold. But yeah, mold can definitely be a stressor that can fill up that histamine bucket.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So of course, things that we use to help with mold is number one: good quality or filtration. If the house is really bad with mold, we got to get that remediated maybe even move depending on how bad it is. I never have someone move unless they can—they leave the house for a week or two and they’re like, “Oh my God, all of my issues got so much better!” And again, we gotta be careful because if you’re leaving for a week or two, it may be a vacation where you’re not –
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We gotta kinda like control those variables. Maybe you get a hotel room or you go somewhere else and you work outside of the house for a week. But if you notice significant improvement, there could be a mold issue. So air filtration can be good uh—do that little one to two-week test that I mentioned and binders such as modified citrus pectin, zeolite activated charcoal, liposomal glutathione these are all great things to use. A lot of the nutrients to help improve phase I and phase II detoxification. So, in my line, we use Liver Supreme or antioxidant uhm— Antioxidant Supreme or we’ll do Detox Aminos. which have a lot of those phase I and phase 2 nutrients. That’s very helpful there.
Evan Brand: Good. I just wanna double comment on that with the recent hurricanes that have hit people in Florida, Georgia, Texas, all the other states affected this mold issue is probably gonna be a lot bigger. A lot of people will probably try to remediate their old mold. Uh—one of my wife’s friend down in Texas posted a picture of her car, they got flooded in Houston. Her entire car, I believe it was leather, may be a fake leather, her entire car was covered in mold that look like a lab experiment, so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my gosh! Sounds terrible.
Evan Brand: So if there’s mold there, please please please don’t try to mitigate that stuff unless you’ve got like proper mask and all that coz you can make yourself sick.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Couple of questions here. “What are the best herbs for parasites?” Again, I would go look at some of our parasite podcast, we dive into it. Again, in my line, we have GI Clear 1-6 that we use for herbs uhm—to help knock down these infections. Evan has some similar ones in his line as well. So you can check out either Evan site, evanbrand.com or mine at justinhealth.com for more information on that by clicking on the store button.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ll hit the second part of the question there. “Are herbs usually enough to beat up parasites?” The answer is, “Yes” We do not prescribe drugs herbs is what we use for bugs and yes bacteria fungus, yeast, parasites. With the right protocol, the right approach, all the other factors, yes, you can successfully get rid of it. I’m a success story. Justin is a success story.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And you know, thousands of people in our belts that we’ve been able to successfully eradicate parasites with herbs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just to highlight one thing, I think you put in there, but just to make sure any new listeners don’t assume it, we’re also factoring in diet and lifestyle changes into that because that is a massive effect on changing and making the immune system more resilient which has a huge effect on decreasing the chance of reinfection, too.
Evan Brand: Yup, well said, well said. Yeah, you can just take one magic pills, you got to do the hard work, too, which is putting a fork to your plate with good food on it, is organic as much as possible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. 100%. And then, again, some people here talking about H. pylori and SIBO and eradicating H. pylori, uh—they still have stomach issues. So I’ll connect this persons question to the issue. But if you have SIBO and H. Pylori, does that go into your histamine bucket? Yes. So these type of critters and infections can increase that histamine bucket which can create more histamine reactions like Evan and I talked earlier and the breathing issues and the burping constantly, yep. Those are all symptoms of that and that can drive histamine problem. So we got to get to the cause of those infections and again, I refer you back to our H. pylori or SIBO podcast where we spent a full hour talking about that one topic.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Get that test to get that treated. Rosalin, she has itchy skin, scalp. “Is that a symptom of too much histamine in the body always itchy?” What would you say? Sounds like probably.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It could be a histamine issue, it could also be just a fungal issue, too. Seborrheic dermatitis is what affects scalp like that or a.k.a. dandruff and that can be fungal in nature. So I would just look at just the whole gut biome imbalance and/or histamine as a byproduct of that, right? Remember I gave you the a hammer and the thumb analogy, right? The— the histamine is just the collateral damage caused by the— the hammer, right? That’s kinda the whole idea. But, yes, it could definitely be— be part of it but more than likely, not the whole thing.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Kelly had a question, “Thoughts on the Biome test worth the money?” So Biome is a pretty new company who’s running stool testing. I met the guy who created the test. I’ve had a few clients who’ve had that run and they sent it to me. And the readout is— is terrible. I hope they improve on it, but currently, I’ve had a few clients send me their readouts, it’s crap. There’s a bunch of information but there’s no real action.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not actionable, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s not actionable at all. It’s just too much data. So, Kelly, I do not use and Justin. Neither of us use the Biome test. We use more functional test that are available through practitioners. Which I like the idea Biome give people the power to get their own testing, but we still are gonna use other companies like the G.I. MAP on our clients.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. But the biggest issue is like you get companies that are trying to give you like more information, they’re trying to like dazzle you with all this information, but then you sit back and you’re like, “What the hell can I actually do with it?”
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What lifestyle change? What diet change? What supplement? What can I eradicate? What can I support or balance based on this information that will help the patient get better? That’s always the question. And the second question is, well does this test allow me to leverage my patient to make an action to allow them to get healthier? And if I don’t get one or two—if I don’t get an answer for one, primarily maybe two, then it just—it becomes not worth it. Kind of you know, glittery, you know, it’s very like, it’s kinda like glittery and flashy and like, “Ooh, look at this!” but it doesn’t really do much to me.
Evan: Yup. Should we get James’ question.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So James put friends nine-year-old sons on a new drug, which I looked it up here, Spinraza for spinal muscular atrophy. And it’s a brand-new drug looks like December 2016, it was the first drug approved for this disorder. Now he’s having swollen lips and hives. Any suggestions will DAO help enzymes? That’s a hard one. Coz who knows if that’s a side effect of the drug or is that some type histamine issue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Number one, the kids—Again I don’t know enough about this patient. So this is, take it with a grain of salt, this is a medical—medical uh—you know, uhm—advice. This is just me kinda talking here. So off the bat, kids notoriously have the worst, freaking diets in the world, okay? Especially if they go to school and they’re eating the school lunch and they trade in with their kids. They eat like crap. So number one, clean up the diet. And again, it’s hard because if you’re a parent who’s not eating healthy then it’s your house is full of crap. So first thing is the parent, get all the crap out of your house, create a really good environment, have really healthy snacks, get all of the crap out. So get on the Paleo template to start. Do that for at least a few weeks to a month. That may fix so many of the issues, but in the meantime, yeah, can you had add in enzymes like DAO can maybe hard to get them, but can you add in regular digestive enzymes and HCl, yes. Can you add in things like stinging nettle and bromolein and an acetylcysteine and all of the nutrients that I mentioned, yes, you can. So I would definitely add in all those histamine nutrients. Uhm— I would try maybe be going lower histamine, kind of a Paleo template and really get the diet a hundred percent and make sure they’re able to digest their food. HCl enzymes, all of those really good things and that’s a great starting point and then from there, if that still not helping, our only getting part of the way there, you want to really get a functional medicine doc to look deeper at what’s happening with the gut and things.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. That was what—my next thing I was gonna say I’ve seen uh— little girls as young as three and little boys four, five years old with massive gut infections, parasites, and H. pylori and the rest of it. So it’s very possible that that’s going on in the gut depending on the history and use of antibiotics in the kid and things like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Patient here— my w— My mom has been diagnosed with lichen sclerosis, that’s an autoimmune condition that affects the skin. I’ve seen a handful of patients after that cream after cream the probably referring to hydrocortisone, a corticosteroid cream. It gets worse, any tips regarding the root cause of this? Yes. Autoimmune. Get the autoimmune stuff dialed in. I’ll use some stem cell types of creams like J Bio Serum, it’s one of the nice sell that I sell it works great. It’s got some stem cells in it, but you gotta make the diet and lifestyle change. Autoimmune template to start with and then dig in with all the functional medicine principles, next. One of the symptoms of histamine tolerance all the things that we mentioned earlier, from swelling to flushing to headaches to rashes. Anything you wanna add there, Evan?
Evan Brand: Yeah. Fast pulse or a rapid heartbeat. I’ve had women say they eat the food and then their heart starts racing. So could be mood issues, could be physical changes as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And the best way to test for histamine issues, in my opinion, is I just look at people symptoms and I connect them to higher histamine foods and we just pull those foods down a little bit and if their symptoms get better, then we know. I think for me the telltale sign for histamine issues, fermented foods and citrus fruits.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Those are the big telltale for me. Coz they’re relatively healthy foods. No one’s gonna say like, “Oh, eating a grapefruit is bad.” You know having some low sugar Kombucha or you know some sauerkraut is bad. It’s relatively good but if you’re –if we’re doing that history and we see symptoms of those food, then we’re like, “Ooh, there probably is a histamine issue.”
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. See, what else we got here. I’ll read a couple off here for you. “Does everyone have some degree of histamine tolerance, don’t think I have histamine problems but not sure.” Well, if you say everyone— the average person is very unhealthy. Autoimmune diseases ramp it, the standard American diet which is the same in Australia, the same in Europe, the same and most developed countries are following kind of a standard American diet— processed grains, sugars, conventional pasteurized dairy, meats that are not organic, they contain hormones and antibiotics. So, yes, most of people are taking Ibuprofen and over-the-counter drugs, they’re taking steroids and doing in antibiotics. They’re getting them in the diet. They’re doing acid blocking drugs, they’re not sleeping well, they’re addicted to their smart phones. So, yes, so many people have things in their bucket. Then, yes, I would say everyone has a degree. Now, kind of our tribe that Justin and I are building of you know, healthy people that are doing as many right things as possible, they’re probably gonna have a less risk of—of histamine intolerance.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Hundred percent. Makes sense. And how about the bone broth stuff? I mean, I see, you know, I see uhm— lots of people with issue with bone broth and it kinda falls in and around the fermented food issue, right? If you’re having issues fermented foods or things that are slowly cooked, like bone broth, that can increase histamine and that can create a problems. So, again, we may hold off on the bone broth or cook it in a way where it’s cooked shorter. What kind of preparations for bone broth do you do to help lessen it? I know there are some out there.
Evan Brand: Well, I’m spoiled. I haven’t been making it because I’ve been using Kettle & Fire Bone broth that they sent me, so I literally does have to throw it in a in a pot and heat it up. I’ve been fine. I know they slow simmer or slow cook theirs for like 48 something hours like it’s an extremely long simmer time. So I don’t know how that would affect somebody that they were sensitive. But for me, I feel quite well with that. I don’t have any symptoms.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: I don’t know. I haven’t had to modified it at all.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So a couple, you can skim off the scum of the top of the bone broth. You can skim that out. Uh—it may be helpful, you can also do just the shorter brew maybe an 8-12 hour one. Uhm—that can be good. You can also just try buying some maybe your higher-quality or they may have a way of you know, producing it that produces low histamine like the Kettle & Fire. So that could be some good options. But again, if you have a food that we consider to be healthy like bone broth or Kombucha or fermented foods and you can’t respond to it, you can always put that food aside. That’s kind of like that’s like you’re free-histamine test, right?
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you can work on the gut. You can work on a lot of these hormone and diet things. And then you can add that thing as your free test add back in the future and that’s a good objective marker to see how you’re doing with your gut. And if it’s starting to heal, you may be able to handle more of that yet.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I believe my link should still be active Kettle & Fire sponsored my show for a while. They’re not anymore but they should still be giving people 20% discount so you can try it. If you do, evanbrand.com/chicken you should be able to get 20% off— so try it out. I think they pay me like a buck if you buy some, but that’s good bone broth and definitely—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll support the cause. I know the products—only products that we ever mentioned on our shows are things you believe in. So again, you guys gotta know that we’re coming from a place of authenticity. So if you want to support us and we reference something, just know that it’s got to go to the filter of actually being a high-quality product and we actually have to use it on ourselves and our friends and family for us to recommend it.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We appreciate that support.
Evan Brand: Another question here. “What herbs do you suggest for fungal issues?” Once again, I’m gonna say it depends. And I know Justin would say the same thing because we’re gonna make our protocols based on what you’re up against. So if it’s bacteria plus fungus plus yeast plus parasite, that’s gonna be far far more heavy hitting protocol. If it’s just fungus by itself, which is not too common, because most people have a lot of issues together, you may be able to get away with some garlic or some oregano or like Justin mentioned earlier, Berberi or the barberry or the—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Berberines.
Evan Brand: Berberines. That whole can be great and we’ve got several formulas if you just stalk our stores a bit look on justinhealth and look into his categories and you can check out mine, too. We’ve got many, many different combinations of herbs. Could you go and technically just buy a couple herbs and just you know, shoot a shotgun approach and maybe get success, yes. But I would of course, advise you to get tested because if you have fungal issues, you probably have other issues, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And here’s one like clinical pearl that I’ve kinda find over the years. I’ll throw it out there for everyone listening. How I know fungal issues are more of an issue for— for some people than others, is number one, we’ll see the fungus on a stool test, which will be helpful. We can see either multiple kinds of yeast or fungus where it’s Geotrichum, Microsporidia, Candida, etc. We’ll see different kinds of species. But also on a organic acid test, we’ll see the uhm— D-arabinose, which is a metabolite of Candida but that also kinda means it’s gone systemic. It’s gone more more systemic coming up the urine. So if we see something like the D-arabinose is more of a systemic marker in the urine and we see in the gut, then we know that fungal issue is—is a lot deeper. Now a lot of fungal issues tend to be driven by other issues like H. pylori, other parasites are bigger but some people just gonna have a rip-roaring fungal infection. We’ll see it systemically via the organics as well as on the gut, too.
Evan Brand: Let me ask you this. I mean let’s say you see somebody with a really, really gross fungus fingernail like it look like their fingernails about to falloff because it’s so infected. Would you assume that person has got a massive amount of fungus in the gut and it’s manifesting on the nail on the—on the fingernail?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: To a certain degree, I would say that’s a good, you know, you can’t hurt yourself faulting that, coming to that conclusion. But again, if you knock out some gut stuff, it can be hard for those herbs and for your immune system to get all the weight at that peripheral tip of that nail to knock out the infection. So sometimes we got topically hit things coz they just got to travel a long way so we’ll either topically hit our herbs there or we’ll uhm—have to do some kind of a soak to hit it as well. Even if we were to address the gut, it may not be enough to make its way down there.
Evan Brand: Coz I’ve seen that. I remember it was a cashier or somewhere, I saw a guy with his finger like his index finger, the nail was literally about the come off and it was completely—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There are different degrees, right? There’s like, “Oh, I had a slight fungal nail and I knocked it out with some oregano and a soak and just a few—in a few weeks.” There’s somewhere it’s like nail is incredibly like sclerotic and—
Evan Brand: It was extreme, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Almost falling off and then like totally dis_ that’s like the highest degree. I mean it’s just like, “Oh, it’s a little bit rough and then it’s got a slight yellowish hue.”
Evan Brand: No. I’m talking when it was like—it look like if you flicked it, it would fly off.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s one of the extreme. And then the other extreme is maybe– is a light, it’s kinda like a little bit sclerotic like it’s rough.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you were to file it, it would get smooth but it would grow out of the bottom again rough. That’s how you know it’s fungal. And typically it’s slightly yellowed. And again, it can go really dark and brown, like dark yellow brown the longer it’s there.
Evan Brand: So what is that? When is that extreme? I mean how in the world would that happen? What sets the stage for that since we talked about—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just chronicity. It’s just deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper into that nail bed.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Wow! Last question here: “What does it mean if a rash shows up only on the legs and not other parts of the body?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have no idea. Uhm—again typically the body’s just gonna push stuff out. And again, if things are in the body systemically, where or why the body pushes it out there, beats me. Maybe that’s a stronger area for the body to push it out, hard to say. Again, as things get worse and worse, problems tend to be more systemic, so I wouldn’t worry about why it’s there. Uh the fact that it’s in a local spot is better. I would just want to make sure there’s nothing constant— contact dermatitis issue where things are in contact in that spot. And when nothing is contacting, I wouldn’t worry about it. We’re treating the body systemically as a whole. We’re really work on lymphatics and the detox so everything will get better.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. And I mean—in a rash in the leg, that could be so generic. I mean, that could be something from your skincare products. That could literally be allergy to parabens or something. My wife—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A contact dermatitis issue where something is actually touching it.
Evan Brand: Right. Yeah. My wife she had a reaction on her legs and it had nothing to do with diet or histamine or anything. It was just uh—uh she had a sample of the skincare product and it must had some ingredient in it that we didn’t know about and she had a rash on her leg. So don’t—maybe don’t freak out, don’t think too deeply. It could be something that simple.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And my baby just had some baby acne. My wife is freaking about it a little bit. But it’s just you know, he’s just metabolizing her hormones. So he’s getting over it pretty fast uh— which is good. But again, things happen and if it’s a contact issue like control all the vectors of what’s going on your skin. And then second is like, what’s in your body and just try to decrease inflammation.
Evan Brand: Yup. We got uh—you got time for one or two more?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Sure. Let’s do it.
Evan Brand: Alright. James he said, he’s not allergic to nuts and seeds but every time he eats peanut butter, he always gets a fungal rash around his glute region.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Don’t touch peanut butter, man. I mean it’s known to be higher in aflatoxin, it’s a legume as well. So that could be some gut-irritating stuff in it. Stay away from that. Switch over to high-quality almond butter instead and let us know how that works.
Evan Brand: Yeah. There’s a brand I use—what is it? Cadia. C-A-D-I-A. It’s like the only organic almond butter I found that’s less than 20 bucks a jar.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I actually created my own brand called Justin’s. You’ve seen that brand at Whole Foods?
Evan Brand: I did. Good job!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nah, I’m just kidding. It’s convenient to say it, but, no. Not my brand.
I won’t take credit for it. But I do like Justin’s. Uh—I will do that a little bit sometimes. And I do like just the whole food 365. I’ll get the organic. It’s also a cool one. Its’ really expensive! It’s called, NuttZo, in an upside down container so like the lid is on the bottom and it’s upside down kinda thing. That’s kinda cool. Really expensive, but it’s really a nice treat.
Evan Brand: Here’s another question. Uh—little bit off-subject. How is holy basil an adaptogen for stress?” Uh—we’ve done—I could go so long on this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: That I’ll have to shut myself up right now. You just have to check out our other episodes on adaptogens because I love them and Holy basil, __rhodiola, ashwagandha, all the ones you mentioned.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good.
Evan Brand: We do use all those. They’re great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. I think it’s good. It’s good to kinda rotate through some or use a combination to use them individually and have a rotation to it. I think that’s great. Evan Brand: Yeah. “Is water sounding in ears related to histamine?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The first thing I would look at are just food allergens in general. Uh– especially mucus-producing food, so like dairy and things coz anytime you get more mucus that could go in the ear and that can create issues. Just gluten and inflammatory foods to begin with. So, yeah. Definitely kinda hit that overall Paleo template, you’ll hit a lot of those things out.
Evan Brand: I think that’s it. We should probably wrap it up. We’re gonna turn into a pumpkin here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know.
Evan Brand: If there’s any last questions please ask us.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How much salt did you ingest for every liter of water you drink replenish lost—I mean, I would just do half a teaspoon to a teaspoon twice a day of high quality mineral base salt. So like my favorites, Real Salt, or you can do Celtic, or Himalayan, just really good minerals that you’re gonna put back into your body. I like that.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I saw a new study about sea salt. I posted it up—I think I put it up on my twitter account where all the sea salt from US and Europe was contaminated with micro particles of plastic and so I’d support your idea of using the real salt which is gonna be an inland sea as opposed to the ocean sea salt that’s contaminated. Dr. J, do you think Tom Brady is on a low histamine diet?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let’s breakdown Tom Brady’s diet. He’s eats 20% meat. There’s a lot of means out there. If Tom Brady goes vegan, no—you’re not vegan if 20% of what you eat is meat—not even close. But, as a qualifier there his meats are organic and grass-fed, so there’s really good quality meats. He avoids nightshades, tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, peppers. He eats lots of vegetables. He eats very little starch. He eats a little bit of fruit. So I would say relatively speaking, yeah. I mean, his kinda thing is, “Oh, I’m eating acid alkaline kinda thing”, right? That may be the result of—that may be what he thinks he’s doing, but my thing is he’s really just doing an anti-inflammatory diet.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m not worried about acid alkaline. If he is worrying about so being alkaline a hundred percent, he’d avoid the meat, right? But we know that meat has a lot of important nutrients and it’s balance the meat with a lot of the veggies that are very alkaline. I don’t worry about that so much. Most of the acid your body’s gonna get is from inflammation. Inflammation is like 1000 times more acidic than actually eating an acid-base food. So I’m more worried about the food’s inflammatory qualities that I am about whether it’s acid or alkaline. But, again, grains are 10 times more acidic than meat. So if I can leverage that conversation or that idea with the patient, I’ll say, “Hey, if you really wanna be more alkaline, at least meat’s 10 times less acidic than grains.
Evan Brand: Well said.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would think he would be indirectly not his goal but again, anyone that’s on anti-inflammatory diet indirectly, would be lower histamine outside it may be citrus and fermented foods and such.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Well, we’ll wrap this thing up. We hope you enjoy it. If you have more questions, more ideas, more things that you want to hear us cover in terms of topics, reach out. We both got contact forms on our website. Send as an email.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Subscribe. We appreciate it. Give us a share, give us a thumbs up.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Justin— Justin’s over 30,000 on the YouTube, man. So great job! Keep it up. Hit the subscribe button so that we can keep pushing up this content in helping you guys achieve the most optimal health on the planet to help us get more people healthy we really appreciate health on the planet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Help us get more people healthy. We really appreciate it. Healthy people make healthy decisions. They’re better parents, they’re better employees they’re better bosses, they’re better everything, so—
Evan Brand: Yeah. I saw Mark Hyman he was talking about autoimmunity and how it’s twice or even up to 10 times more expensive to take care of a sick patient with autoimmune disease and so we guys want you to be healthy because to save our population from collapsing. We’re kind of in the midst of healthcare collapse. Basically, the health of society falling apart. We’re trying to make a healthy dent in the universe by helping you guys. So thanks for the feedback. It means a lot to us.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, Evan. Alright, man. Great chat today. I appreciate it.
Evan Brand: Take care. Bye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You too, take care.
Hashimoto’s Triggers – Autoimmune Thyroid – Live Podcast #143
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about the different causes and triggers of Hashimoto’s disease. Find out how it is connected to one’s immune system, diet and gut health and learn why women are more susceptible to having it.
The thyroid, adrenals and gut health are important factors to consider in addressing Hashimoto’s disease. Listen to this podcast and learn about the natural solutions and beneficial supplements to support them.
In this episode, we will cover:
01:29 Hashimoto’s Disease
09:24 Socialized Medicine
13:40 Use of Secretory IGA in Measuring the Immune System
15:39 Women and Stress-sensitivity
18:24 Ketogenic Diet, Insulin Resistance and Hashimoto’s
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we’re back! Evan, it’s Dr. J. How are we doing, man?
Evan Brand: Pretty good. How are you doing?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. I’m loving the ambience. My new plantation shutters in the background; just loving that there. Just nice. Ready for an excellent day. Got a little lunch break here. I’m seeing patients all morning. Ready to drop some knowledge bombs, and then get back to patients in the afternoon. How are you doing, on your afternoon?
Evan Brand: Yes. Likewise, same story. I had a female client this morning, who I was telling you over air. We had run her blood work before…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhhmm–
Evan Brand: …previously. And it was basically just a checkup. I said, “Hey, why don’t we check your thyroids?” She didn’t really have hyper or hypo symptoms, and she showed up with thyroglobulin antibodies, which is one of the type of antibodies you and I test our clients for on blood. And she showed up with a level of 50. And we should see that, as minimal as possible. I mean, hopefully less than 1, but she’s had a 50. And she said, “What’s triggering this?” And, we can go into that today, but I was hoping you and I could really outline a lot of different causes and triggers of Hashimoto’s because it’s so common in our females, we see it every single week. It’s like – well, there different triggers for different people. So, hopefully, we can try to go into a couple of different arenas here, and talk about the big puzzle pieces.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like that. And then people on Facebook, we also got Evan’s audio on the background, too. So, if you’re listening on Facebook, go over, jump on YouTube, justinhealth.– or youtube.com/justinhealth and vice versa with YouTube. Get on the Facebook page so you can get this live feed. We’d like to them and do our Q&A’s too. So this is great. So, a hundred percent. Hashimoto’s the big issue, vex about 30– or thyroid issues, about 30 million people in this country, uh – I’d say, at least, hmmn– I’d say a quarter of probably undiagnosed, or at least undertreated or undersupported because they’re given synthetic thyroid medication. That’s– is T4, right? T4 in origin. And then you have these various enzymes called D2 and D3, that help convert and activate thyroid hormone. And the problem is those enzymes, if you have Hashimoto’s, there’s a good chance that D2, D3 and even D1 enzymes are not working optimally, so then that conversion of T4 to T3 – that inactive thyroid hormone to active T3, about 400 percent increase in the metabolic activity of T3 versus T4, those enzymes aren’t there for the conversion. So that’s a big issue, right? [crosstalk] And not to mention, when you take a thyroid hormone, you’re getting a T4, right? But you’re also getting T3, right? Triiodothyronine, which is your active thyroid hormone, you’re getting T2, which isn’t even tested, right? T2, uh– Diiodothyronine, is a metabolically active hormone, only measure in the research settings, and not even really talked about in conventional medicine, T1, T0, Calciton, which is very helpful for Calcium metabolism. So, again, we’re not getting that in our conventional thyroid medication. The big thing is those D2, D3 enzymes that you’re missing, that T4 to T3 conversion with. So lots of people are being medicated with thyroid hormone, right? Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothyroxine. Though TSH comes back in the normal range, so they look good on their conventional doctors uh– thyroid test, but they still have all these thyroid symptoms, right there. The thinning hair, the outer third of the eyebrows, swelling of the hands and feet, anxiety, mood issues, constipation, depression, and they’re not getting better.
Evan Brand: So, why? What’s up with these enzymes? What’s happening to them?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I mean, there’s the underlying physiology, typically, inflammation, right? Inflammation is what drives people into that disease, or pathological state, right? And that pathological state means more symptoms, right. All the things I just mentioned, the moods, the digestive stuff, uhhmm– the hair loss stuff, the energy, the weight gain, all those things are gonna be affected. Now, a big component we talked about it, ‘cause a lot of these issues, right, thyroid-based things are gonna be autoimmune in nature, so autoimmune means your immune system is actually attacking your thyroid gland, so you have these antibodies, like TPO or Thyroperoxidase, you have antithyroglobulin antibodies, and these are primarily with Hashimoto’s, for instance, and they come and they attack your thyroid gland. And that’s about 90 percent– let’s say 50 to 90 percent are autoimmune in nature, so you and your conventional medical doctor or your endocrinologist says, “Oh, here’s – here’s the conventional thyroid pill.” They’re not actually getting to the underlying immune– immune imbalance, right? They’re not fixing the underlying things, like gluten, right. Grains and gluten, and that molecular mimicry that happens where your immune system can be exacerbated ‘cause of Gluten. That’s the one, one really big component. Couple of others will be gut – the gut issues. So, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, gut bacterial imbalances, infections, H.pylori, Blastocystis hominis, uh– Lyme or Borrelia burgdorferi, uhm – Yersinia enterocolitica. So those are just a lot of gut infections that can significantly affect your GI. And again, that sulphatase enzyme in the gut made by healthy bacteria, really helps to activate, that thyroid hormone really helps to upregulate those D2, D3 enzymes to get your T4 to T3. So, all that technical jargon, what the heck does it mean? We’re trying to get your– your active thyroid hormone up higher; that’s the goal. Your T3 levels, get them up higher because, just doing it on the conventional side, and say, “Hey, let’s give you uh– a synthetic thyroid hormone.” That may not be enough to actually get the end stage thyroid hormones better. It may make the upstage TSH look better but not the downstream T4 and T3.
Evan Brand: Conventional, like the National Institute of Health, though, say that the Hashimoto’s affects one to two percent of people in the United States. Do you agree? One to two percent or do you think it’s much greater?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re saying– repeat that question, one more time for me.
Evan Brand: National Institute of Health– is it – do you heard– are you hearing echoes? Is that messing you up?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. No problem. I just got a comment here. Someone’s saying they’re not hearing the audio on the YouTube site. [crosstalk] You guys are hearing the audio, give me a thumbs-up here, but I think we’re looking good.
Evan Brand: Okay. So, National Institute of Health, they say, “Hashimoto’s affects one to two percent of people in the United States.” I think it’s much, much higher. Izabella Wentz, I think she gave a number that was much, much higher too. What’s your take on this percentage here?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think it could be much higher, for sure. I think it could be much higher, and the big issue is that most doctors they aren’t testing for thyroid antibodies. That’s the major issue. Uh– we talked about a patient this morning over in Canada, whose doctors aren’t uhm– they aren’t even testing for thyroid antibodies. And the big reason why is because, think about it, right? If the solution is a synthetic thyroid hormone, like Levoxyl, or Synthroid, or Levothyroid, right, if that’s the ultimate end game, and that doesn’t change whether there’s autoimmunity or gluten issues, or infections, then it stays the same. Why change that, right? Why change that variable up because they’re not gonna do anything different if something else comes back, right? Does that makes sense?
Evan Brand: Yes, it does.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Even though 90 percent are autoimmune in nature, right? Even though 90 percent of thyroid issue’s autoimmune, they’re not gonna do anything different anyway, so why even look for it? Because then, it just creates more questions the doctors have to answer, and they don’t like to answer questions they’re not prepared to uhm– to answer. Most people…
Evan Brand: And they’re not trained, because if antibodies do come back, they’ve got nothing. They’ve got no way to talk about Klebsiella and Citrobacter bacteria that need to be treated. Uh– yeah, and so uh – just to give a little bit more back story on the Canada, so– you know, Justin and I both have clients in Canada.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And they’ll say, “Hey, we’ve got health insurance over here. It’s free.” But there’s a catch to that. It’s not that good. All they’re gonna do is they’re gonna run, like, a one-marker, like maybe TSH, and then based on that they may give you a prescription drug. But if you don’t have your free T3, the reverse T3, the TPO, the TG antibodies we talked about, may not always using Algin, maybe you tell me there’s a better analogy, but mine is: if you just have TSH and you’re trying to treat thyroid, it’s like touching the sidewalk and estimating the forecast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That analogy sounds really, really familiar. I don’t know why.
Evan Brand: There’s no way you came up with that. I’m pretty sure…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I came up – I came up with that one. That’s been around for, like, six or seven years, ‘cause that’s how I teach my patients about TSH– TSH. The receptor sites in the pituitary are hypersensitive. The thyroid hormone, therefore, uhm – TSH will drop– will drop more precipitously because the brain is sensing thyroid hormone being a lot higher then what it is. So, peripherally, the thyroid hormones never get high enough and the periphery in the actual tissues but it’s– it’s high enough in the brain ‘cause the brain’s more sensitive to thyroid hormones. So, TSH will always drop faster than what the peripheral tissues need uh– in the periphery there for thyroid hormone. That’s why you don’t want to base your dosing or your support of the TSH 100 percent, ‘cause the TSH is so sensitive. Touch the sidewalk outside when it’s a hundred degrees out, it’s gonna be able to fry an egg on it, right. But again, the air temperature will always be a lot cooler. The peripheral tissues will always be less saturated with thyroid hormone uh– than the latter. Make sense?
Evan Brand: I’ll give it– I’ll give you a credit. It must have rubbed off of me then, if you had that one before. [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It did. I do– that’s mine. That’s uh– that’s a Dr. J-ism. But I’m– getting back on your thing, man, yeah. Socialized medicine for the most parts thinks– Okay, I’ve seen patients from all over the world. All over the world, Europe, Canada– Socialized Medicine’s great if you only need it for acute traumatic issues, right? You sprain your ankle, right? You have to go to the ER, ‘cause of some reason. But outside of that, if you getting stuck on that chronic conventional model, all you have for options are conventional drugs, right? And then number two the waits are like, three to six months to get in. Again, this is what happens. I have hundreds of patients where I’ve had this story, literally had this story they literally told me over and over again. And then because everything is socialized, the government says we’re not gonna reimburse. Reimburse then guess what happens. There’s not a market place for it, right? There’s less people going underground. Now, I do have people over in Canada that are functional medicine doctors and they’re doing– they’re thriving even in a socio uh– even in a uhm– sociological medicine society there, right? Even with a socialized medicine society because, people aren’t getting better even though the medicine’s free they’re still going in paying a lot of functional medicine doctors. And again, we start today. Why am I hampering on this is because, that doctor wasn’t running TPO or any of the thyroid antibodies. So, the socialized medicine said, “Nope. We are not gonna test your thyroid antibodies. We deemed that not appropriate, and this person needs to know they have Hashimoto’s so they can make changes with their immune system, with their gluten, with the gut, with a lot of the converting nutrients to help T$ and T3.
Evan Brand: So let’s– let’s go through a list. I know, we could kind of jump around but, maybe we could do like a top five [crosstalk] or maybe even like a top ten.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Let’s do it.
Evan Brand: So, number one– in no particular order, but number one, you already mentioned gluten. So, this would include any grains, right? ‘Cause even like our Amaranths, our Buckwheat, our Kiwa. That Kiwa could still be cross-reactive and trigger the antibodies, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. I would still stay away from all grains. Grains probably being number one trigger becau– partly because of the amino acid sequence in the grains, I very similar to the surface proteins of the thyroid. That’s number one. So [inaudible]…
Evan Brand: What about now? Are you seeing issues with him?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I mean, that’s a cross-reactive thing so, if gluten is like, you know – if gluten is like the brother and sister, you know, Hamp’s kind of like, maybe the cousin, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The second cousin once removed, so to speak. S, again uhm– it may be something that needs to be pulled out with someone on an autoimmune kind of elimination provocation diet for at least a month or two. So, the grains component’s really important. Got to get that out. But not just the molecular mimicry thing. There’s uh– some research looking at Non-Celiac Gluten sensitivity, where they talked about gluten. Even in people that aren’t really Celiac or aren’t even a gluten, like, sensitive person, so to speak. Where just taking that gluten in, they still get gastrointestinal permeability. The guts gets a little bit leaky even with uhm – the fact that they aren’t really gluten-sensitive, so to speak. They aren’t gluten-sensitive but that’s the gut permeability that’s driven by the gluten. And prior, what’s happening is, we’re getting this protein called Zonulin increased. And Zonulin basically unzips, so it’s like an unbuttoning my shirt. That’s Zonulin, right? Unbuttoned zip, right? Opens that gut lining up, and then all these digestive proteins you get right through there.
Evan Brand: So, Zonulin goes up in the presence of grains. We had a question in the live chat about Brown rice. Absolutely, Brown rice would still be in a category of grains that you would want to remove.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: If you want to avoid Hashimoto’s. I tried to justify with you for a long time, “Oh, I love my white rice.” You know like, man, it’s just not worth it. And now uh– saw this stew– sweet potato now, and…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: …my skin. My skin’s actually gotten better, too. You know, Even though I’ve pulled out – I’ve pulled out the rice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, man. You go back to your old uh– YouTube videos, you had some– some stuff going on there, [crosstalk] and you like’s porcelain skin.
Evan Brand: I tried gut bugs, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Use some gut bugs, man. You’re almost up to a runway model status, Evan.
Evan Brand: I don’t know about that but I appreciate it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re getting there. Good.
Evan Brand: Oh, so gluten, [crosstalk] so gluten grain…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gluten and the Zonulin – gluten, the Zonulin stuff and then also other grains still may have some gut irritating compounds, right? The Lectins, some of the Phytates, some of the Oxalates, some of those things, which can be irritating on the gut. So, really, it comes down to like, getting the immune system in the molecular mimicry going. But then it also has some impact on the Zonulin and the leaky gut.
Evan Brand: Okay, so you already said the immune system. Let’s hit on that piece. Let’s make that like our number two or number three. Uhm – we can measure the immune system with the secretory IGA on the Stool Test that we’re running on people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Uhm – can we go on that number and just use secretory IGA as our immune system, kind of our first line of defense?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And if we see IGA’s low, can we say, “Okay, you’re more susceptible or…”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent.
Evan Brand: …this will trigger?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’ll see low IGA levels. IGA is that mucosal membrane barrier. It’s that first line of defense that lines the gastrointestinal tract, all your mucus membranes, your mouth, you know, our anal cavities, flatulent tract, urinary canal, everything. Every little surface there, even your eyes have IGA in the surface there. Your first line of immune defense. So, when that gets weakened, typically, it will go up and there’s an acute infection. You’ll see it there. We run Stool Test while measuring the stool, and then we’ll actually see it drop down for Chronic Stress. So IGA’s really important, ‘cause that’s a good measurement that your immune system is under stress.
Evan Brand: Right. So, a lot of times, more often than not, you and I are gonna see chronically low IGA, indicating that someone’s been dealing with these issues for a long time. So, Chronic Stress, overwork, maybe they’re not sleeping as well as…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Maybe they have gut infections that are damaging that IGA because people may say, “Well, if I’ve got Hashimoto’s, how did I get a low immune system in the first place?” Well, chicken or egg, all of it– I mean, you could have had adrenal stress, which then weaken the gut. Then you picked up gut bugs, or vice versa.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely.
Evan Brand: Okay, what’s– what’s next?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, typically it’s a combination of emotional stress that tends to set people up. That tends to be it. So, there’s, you know, you choose with whatever’s happening with your life: work stress, financial stress, family stress, kid’s stress. Whatever’s happening there, that tends to set things up, and that will weaken the immune system.
Evan Brand: I had a female client did uh– that I talked with earlier. She’s a teacher, so she’s on summer break, right now. She’s feeling much, much better. But when she’s back in school, she’s done. She wants to get out of the field of teaching. Everything kind of gets worst, symptom-wise.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So that’s a good example of work stress…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: …right there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. And then, women are a little bit more prone to it, because there’s actually a research on this, where their immune system can go out of balance. Like, one emotional, like, you have an emotional argument with the woman, their IO6, their Intergluten-6 can go out of balance for up to two days after a fight. For some of the men, they can go out of balance for like a few hours, but then it’s back in. So I always– this is part of the mechanism why women are more prone to autoimmune conditions. Their immune system probably just a little bit more, I should say, a little more sensitive. And there’s also the Estrogen issue, right, because, Estrogen can affect the CD4 to CD8 balance. And they can skew that balance. So, the more women are Estrogen dominant. That can throw off their immune system. Their CD8, CD4, their natural killer cell, to help her cell ratio. CDH’s your natural killer. Your CD4’s your helper cell. And they could skew that ratio uh – up.
Evan Brand: So, I’m guessing the– like the ancestral view of why woman’s immune system would be more sensitive. Would you say just because of uh– uh– having children, where the immune’s got to be able to modulate itself not to attack and kill the fetus, for example. So, their immune system’s a little bit more variable than a man. Or what do you think is the ancestral lenses?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think, it probably has to do with uhm– I think it probably has to do with just raising children in that extra level of empathy, being able to take on other people’s feelings, and kind of be able to uuuh– what’s your need, right? You got, like, you know, you’re raising a child. You have to be to really sense what’s going on. I think that may play into it. I’ve zero evidence outside. That’s just my opinion; just observation. But there’s research and studies on that. Also, blood sugar can throw people’s immune system off to. So like skipping meals, and not giving enough nutrition, and just going long periods of time. So, that’s a big thing, right. That’s a big thing, so, I just, you know, I tell people just make sure you get your communication and your relationships kind of dialed-in. If you’re having issues with the spouse, get the communication down. Try to get, like, try to create a really good environment, where you can communicate, and you’re not gonna get flooded and drive people’s immune systems off.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, that’s kind of, that’s number one. Number two, so let’s get meals, right. Now, when you’re healthier, you can play around with intermittent fasting, okay. That’s a good tool, but you got to get it dialed-in with your hormones good first, and you feeling good first. I may get that dialed-in later on.
Evan Brand: Oh, how about Ketosis too. Like, I tried it with Dr. Mercola, and he’s like– he’s like concerned that a lot of people are going into a ketogenic diet but they’re doing it for too long. So, he’s kind of a proponent of, like, five days on and then two days off. Or hold his go and eat potatoes, and things like that. And really kind of carb-griefy. So, how much of this thyroid epidemic, Hashimoto’s even kid of in the Health Space where you and I are working. These women come into us. They have triggered Hashimoto’s, do you think Ketogenic diet could be a trigger, potentially?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I think, Ketogenic diet has actually helped a lot of people with Hashimoto’s, especially ones that are insulin-resistant, because insulin-resistance can actually block thyroid conversion. So, that’s my issue– is if your insulin-resistant, you may do really well with the Ketogenic diet for a while, but then you may hit the wall.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, then the question. When you hit the wall, that’s where you may start gradually increasing your carbs up. Maybe 10 grams a week, and maybe do a couple of low carb days, like Keto days, and then come out for one or two days in the higher carb side. But, I think, if you’re coming into this, being overweight, with uh– hips circum– you know, waist circumference greater than 35 for a female, 40 for a male. There’s probably some level of insulin-resistance that a Ketogenic diet will help reverse. But then you may have to refine or retune your carbohydrate thresholds afterwards.
Evan Brand: Okay, and that will always be based on adrenal health, and that would be based on, maybe, Vitamin D status or gut infections, depressants, of those. There’s always more, more things, so when people find, “Oh! Ketogenic diet,” It’s like there’s so many different variables out there and these other pieces of the puzzle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah. I mean, Atkins was sniffing around the right area when he started talking about Ketogenic diets in the 70’s. the problem with Atkins is, he didn’t put enough qualifiers on it. I mean, okay, great. So I eat a whole bunch of meat now, is that gonna be hormone antibiotic, free, you know, laden meat, or is it gonna be organic grass-fed. Oh, Atkins says soy protein’s okay. Eeh! Aspartame’s splendid, okay. Eeh! Right, not good. So, protein quality’s really important. So, if you’re gonna do protein powders, you know, Collagen peptides, you know, P protein, like maybe– maybe some really good grass-fed wheat protein, right. Choose really good protein sources if it’s powder. Or choose really healthy meat souces, or really fat sources. Lots of toxins are stored in the fat, so if you’re eating diseased animals, you’re not gonna get high quality of uh– of a meat product passed down to you from a nutrient perspective.
Evan Brand: Yep, well said. Okay, so we hit the secretory IGA, we hit the Zonulin, we hit the gluten.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, we talked about thyroid nodules too, right. Someone on uhm– Facebook here, had commented here. So, thyroid nodules are just like these little abnormal tissue spots in the thyroid, but typically gonna be driven by autoimmunity, right. So, Hashimoto’s gonna be the major thing. Hashimoto’s, typically, is an autoimmunity that is involving TPO antibodies, and antithyroglobulin antibodies. Now, again, all autoimmunity, for the most part, will end in low thyroid. The difference is grave disease has a couple of antibodies that can jack up thyroid functioning. Keep it up to the point where you may stroke or you may have an issue if left untreated. So, we that with TSI or Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin and also TSH Receptor antibodies, so, which you want to make sure under control. Why? It helped saved many thyroid uhm – from going into uh – graves or a thyroid storm state by using specific nutrients to help it. and also…
Evan Brand: What happened with uh– with thyroid nodules? Let’s say, someone…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: …has antibodies at that point. Maybe we suggest they go get a thyroid ultrasound. They say– Okay, hey. Can you palpate? Like, would you suggest an ultrasound, or can you palpate and figure out whether you have nodules?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, great. Let’s go into that. So, try to palpate the thyroid is – Find the Adam’s apple, so like, mine’s right here.
Evan Brand: Get a little closer to the mic, so people can hear good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. This is your Adam’s apple right here. Right. So, I feel here. I go down, about one centimeter, and then out a centimeter. And, you know, I would do it by standing behind myself, who I can step out of my body. About be here. I touched each side and I press it into the other. And I would have myself swallow water. And I would feel, just for any irregularities in the surface. It will be almost impossible to do it to yourself just as I demonstrated with the angle. But you would stand from behind someone, and you have just nice flat palms, and you just go through the surface, and you touched, you pushed, and you want to feel it come out in the other side. And basically, you want to just feel a smooth surface, and you want to not feel it as an inflamed puffy. You have to feel a couple normal ones to know but, that will give you a pretty good idea.
Evan Brand: The ultrasound sounds easier though. I mean, let’s just say, that you come back with nodules, what happens? Do you just – do you just play the waiting game? You just watch him or how do you approach it?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it depends where you’re at, right? There’s always that increase chance of potential thyroid cancer, right. So, it’s good to get that screened, ‘cause of the increased risk. But it’s not the first thing I worry about. Because if you just do all the things that we tell you, I can’t tell you how many patients whose nodules have just significantly reduced. Significantly reduced.
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Though, I’ve seen that happen so many times, so, hey, you know, just run it by your endo. See what they say. And then just let them know that you’re gonna do some things on the functional medicine side. And, come back and monitor it. you just want to make sure it’s moving in the right direction. Now, some nodules can be caused by low Iodine, too. Again, w tend to get enough Iodine, a couple hundred MIC’s really odd. You need like 200 MIC’s is like they already– hey, you may need a little bit more, but you got to be careful with supplementing Iodine because the Iodination process that happens, so– Iodination is nothing more than the Iodine bonding to the Thyroxine molecules to make your thyroid hormone, right? Like T4 is your Thyroxine, your 4 molecules, your Thyroxine bound to four molecules of Iodine. That process of binding it and pulling out the sticking glue getting stuck there. That’s called Iodination. That process spits of a lot of Hydrogen peroxide which can be inflammatory. And that can drive a lot of B cell infiltration. Your immune cells into your thyroid and exacerbate that autoimmune attack. So you got to be careful off the bat when giving any Iodine. So I always like to get in the Selenium in there first, get the diet dialed-in, get the lifestyle stuffed-out then, and then really lower the information first before I go after it. And if we go after it, we’ll titrate that slowly. We won’t go at it hard. There’s a lot of docs out there that go really high in the Iodine I don’t recommend going high of the bat. I think it’s better off going slower, and work on the foundational stuff first.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Love it. Uh – I was gonna ask you a question about Iodine. I forgot what it was. Tsk. Darn. I lost my point. Alright. Let’s keep moving on. What else comes to mind for triggers.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So we talked about the food stuff. We talked about blood sugar, we talked about emotional stress. That’s still a big one, okay. Because, emotional stress taps in to your sympathetic nervous system and your sympathetic nervous system wires right down to the adrenals. And that’s umping out Cortisol. Pumping out Adrenaline. And your body will always sacrifice sex hormones for stress hormones. It’s just the hardwired adaptation. Right? If you don’t survive today, you’re not gonna have to worry about reproducing tomorrow, right?
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, gut component– the gut component’s very important. We talked about gut bacteria, and how the healthy bacteria’s really helpful with the Sulphatase. Also, that’s where we absorb nutrients, right/ that’s where we absorb a lot of our B Vitamins, a lot of our minerals, a lot of our amino acids, right. Thyroxines and amino acids, that’s part of making thyroid hormone. Also, 70 to 80 percent of your immune system is located in your gut, right? So, you want to jack up your immune system, you know, just get your gut in bad shape by not digesting food, putting a lot of inflammatory things in there. [crosstalk] And uh – throwing off your gut bacteria and uh – whole bunch of steroids from the foods, antibiotics from the foods, anantibiotics in your uh – medicines for maybe, reasons that, maybe be unwanted, so to speak.
Evan Brand: Right. Yeah, the gut’s huge. I mean…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: I don’t really like the term SIBO because it’s so generic, but you and I, we see so many different species of bacteria. We can assume that most of them are going to be growing up from the colon to the small intestine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So if you’ve never been diagnosed to SIBO, or any type of bacterial overgrowth, like specifically, Justin and I are gonna be looking for, like, a Citrobacter or Klebsiella, or there’s two species of Proteus. Those are all autoimmune trigger bacteria. That’s in the literature too. So, if you’ve got bacterial overgrowth, bacterial infections, parasites, Yeast, or like we see many times a combination. So it could be a Citrobacter, plus Blastocystis hominis, a parasite, plus Candida. That’s uh – that a – that’s a triple whammy there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: That could definitely cause the antibodies to go up. The good thing is this is reversible, right. Now, would you say– I know for us, you know, we’re not medical doctors so we can’t use the term uh– cure. Uh– but is it possible for a cure for Hashimoto’s or when you get your antibodies down, let’s say, you were at a 50 on your TG antibodies, and we do all the good work with you. We get the antibodies back down, let’s say, below a five. Are you cured or can you always just rebound quicker than the average person back up to that bad state of Hashimoto’s again?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, you can always ramp back up, but it’s all about adaptation, right? The healthier you are, the greater ability you have to adapt to stress. So, when you have the susceptibility for a certain disease. So, someone posted on Facebook, I have anti-NaN antibodies, that’s kind of a very broad sense, but your predisposed to certain conditions, certain diseases. Maybe Rheumatoid arthritis, maybe Lupus, maybe Scleroderma, maybe CREST, right. So a lot of autoimmune conditions you may now predispose for. But that just means you have the genetic triggers, those genetic switches, are kind of right in the middle, and if those stressors flick it down, right, that stress could flip that gene on and they could activate. So we managed all the things that we talked about, right? Blood sugar, nutrient density, stress, grains, gut health, uhm – being infection-free, ideally, healthy probiotics, healthy gut bacteria, and then making sure that if there’s thyroid damage already, we support that, making sure we support thyroid activation, right. Zinc, Magnesium, CoQ10, Selenium, maybe the right Iodine, use your functional doctors resource, making all those nutrients and things are dialed-in. That’s gonna significantly help improve your resiliency, so if you do have a disease, you may be able to– your body may be able to keep it in check enough, were the symptoms aren’t even visible. But some they say you’re cured, but legally we can’t say you’re cured.
Evan Brand: Right, exactly. What about the liver? What’s the role of the liver?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. So the liver’s really important ‘cause a lot of those deionized enzymes. They come from the liver, right. So, the liver’s really stressed and taxed dealing with the whole bunch of fructose coming in there, ‘cause your Insulin-resistant or toxins, and round-up and pesticides, and a whole bunch of junk. It may not be able to do its job, activating and converting thyroid hormones, so we want to make sure, number one, that we are uhm – keeping the stress off it. ‘Cause a lot of liver stuff is more about to stop adding crap to the system, right?
Evan Brand: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then number two, I know, Izabella Wentz talks about it in her book, the Hashimoto Protocol. She starts a lot of her patients on a liver cleanse that first month, which can be helpful. So, Liver Support Phase 1, Phase 2, detox support. In my line, it’s uh– Phase 1 is either uhm– Antioxidant Supreme or Liver Supreme, and then Phase 2 is gonna be Detox Aminos. That supports all the Phase 1 and Phase 2 pathways that run your liver. The fat-soluble, the water-soluble, and the water-soluble to excretion in Phase 2. That’s really important.
Evan Brand: So, list of some ingredients. So this is like your Methionines, your Taurines, your milk fissles, [crosstalk] your Vitamins A, you Beet powder, your Artichoke extract.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Artichoke, yeah. And then your Phase 2 is gonna be more of your amino acids. That’s like an acetylation, methylation, uh– glutathione conjugation. All that stuff. So cysteine, glutamine, glycine, uh – taurine’s in there, methionine, uh– We throw Calcium-D-Glucarate in there. Those are really good compounds.
Evan Brand: Cool, cool. Uhm–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I think we hit some good triggers. We talked about some things to help about things to help with thyroid conversion too. We talked about the liver, we talked about the infections and the leaky gut, and then yeah. The whole thing about gluten– oh by the way.– uh– I’ll tell you off the air.
Evan Brand: Alright. Alright.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But I’m–
Evan Brand: Hey. Let me tell you something that– before you – I want to – I want to mention two things. I believe we hit it already, but the adrenal piece, uh– with Cortisol stress, with adrenal problems. You can also pack the conversion of T4 to T3 hormone there. So you got to get your adrenals checklist.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Oh yeah. We got to hit that, man.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So, if you’re working on your thyroid, but you’re not working on your gut, and your adrenals, your results are likely going to not be very good, because adrenal stress is gonna reduce the conversion rate. And then, you can go back to it. But let me say one other thing. I had a client this morning. She was trying to justify uh– eating gluten, and grains, and crackers and stuf like that, because of her food-sensitivity test.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly where I was going, man. You’ve read my mind.
Evan Brand: Alright. Her food-sensitivity test said, “I’m not sensitive to gluten.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And so, she’s still doing gluten. I said, throw your food-sensitivity test away.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: yeah. I mean the big issue, right. Some of the non-celiac gluten sensitivity research. People that weren’t even gluten-sensitive, they have increased gut permeability.
Evan Brand: Say that again. Just to make sure that it’s like super clear for people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. People that weren’t gluten-sensitive, right, they weren’t like celiac, they weren’t like having any gluten issues, based on conventional standards, when they got exposed to gluten, they noticed some level of leaky gut, some level of permeability in the gut. Based on the study’s objective criteria diagnosis for it. So that means, more leaky gut, means more immunogenic compounds, undigested foods, LPS, Casein, right – all these things. Dysbiotic bacteria may get into that bloodstream, may start to cause some immune system kind of pissed off, right? Then it may go out looking for that thyroid tissue, or maybe even uhm– the pancreas, or other tissues, or other autoimmune tissues.
Evan Brand: Or even if it doesn’t go straight to that, the gluten could still cause a leaky gut situation, which then sets you up. So, when you go to Sushi Night, you could go pick up Blasto, or some other parasite, which then causes even more damage…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah
Evan Brand: …which then leads to the antibodies. SO, one way or another, you’re setting yourself up. There’s really just no justification for gluten in the diet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. I won’t give any press to the book. It’s out there right now. We’ve talked about it before.
Evan Brand: [inaudible]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. People say, “Oh. Gluten this and that, maybe okay.” Not necessarily okay. I don’t think it’s uhm– something that people should be consuming. Some people may be able to handle it. Again, if you’re gonna consume gluten, you better off doing it and uhm– sourdough form, if you’re gonna do it. Or, you know, if you are healthier, right, and you’re on the right track. Every now and then you wanna do a little bit of white rice, as a treat. As long as you’re doing good, as long as you’re on point, right, then I think that’s okay.
Evan Brand: Yep. Yeah, for sure. Alright now, uhm– there was something else. I interrupted you. I hit the Adrenal piece, and I had to talk about the food-sensitivity testing and the lady trying to justify gluten.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that was it. I think we hit it, and I think just the– the adrenal imbalance, whether high Cortisol or low. So, Chronic stress, low cortisol, with the reverse Cortisol rhythm, or acute stress, really high Cortisol, both can affect your thyroid conversion and activation.
Evan Brand: Yep, yep. Got it. So, I mean, yes. You can take adaptogenic herbs. We love, we promote those, but that’s still not addressing the root cause. So if you hate your job, we can give you all the Ashwagandha, Rhodiola, uh– Siberian Ginseng in the world, and we’re gonna help you adapt to the stress, but you still got to remove the stress. It’s like I know you see the analogy of the engine life, putting the tape over the uh – the check engine light in the car. I like the analogy of like a doorbell too. Like if you keep pushing the doorbell. Uh– your still gonna have issues. You can try to like disable a doorbell, but it’s still being pressed. Like, you hate your job, or you’ve got a turbo relationship. I had a woman, who she told me. She said straight up, “Evan, until I divorce my husband, I will not get better.” And I said, “Well, I fully support you in that decision.” And now, she’s going through the divorce. She’s already starting to lose weight, just based on the reduction of the emotional stress. So I think that’s just amazing, and unfortunately, that happens. But, if you wanna be healthy, you got to make some tough decisions, sometimes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. I appreciate you’d actually given me credit for that analogy. I thought you were gonna pawn that one off of yourself.
Evan Brand: [laughs] No, definitely not.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good, ‘cause I wasn’t gonna give you, like, two Paleo demerits for that, but I’ll hold those back.
Evan Brand: Appreciate it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. You got a credit in a bank of Dr. J here. Excellent. So, I think we hit everything: the Cortisol stuff, we hit the gut stuff. Someone over here, I’ll try him in. So, someone talked about this is functional medicine on demand, can Candida hang around in the thyroid? Candida can create things known as acetaldehyde. Acetaldehyde can be inflammatory, right. Like, it’s one of the products of alcohol. So that can be inflammatory and really affect things. Candida can also get the immune system wrap up. Uhm – Candida or acetaldehyde in the gut can convert in the Salsolinol. Salsolinol’s known to increase uhm– antibodies to uhm– receptors for dopamine in the substantia nigra midbrain. So, that can create other issues with autoimmunity, so yeah. Candida is not a good thing either. And that’s, you know, that’s according to conventional medicine, not really to exist at all. But we see it all the time.
Evan Brand: Oh, yeah. I mean, Honestly, and I think I may have mentioned this. I told you this or I told people on the air already, uh– sorry if I’ve repeated myself. I’m sure we do that all the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: But, when I first started learning about Candida and yeast, I thought, “Oh, candida, Yeast.” You know, I kind of put it on like the bottom of the totem pole, below bacteria and below parasites, in terms of the effect on the body. But I’ve seen all kinds of crazy stuff with Candida alone, where it’s like, whether it’s brain fog, depression, fatigue, cravings, I mean, something that sounds so benign. “Oh, Candida,” “I’m gonna do a Candida Cleanse.” It’s like, a lot of people promote it, kind of like– almost like it doesn’t exist, or almost like, it’s a trendy topic, and you can just do some type of, like, “Candida Cleanse smoothie”, “go buy my online candida program and you’re gonna get better”. It doesn’t work that way. But, candida can affect almost everybody’s system, whether it’s adrenals, whether it’s gut, whether it’s Lewd…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: …depression, anxiety, etc., It can all stem just from a Yeast overgrowth. And I would say, you tell me if your stats are different on your side of clients, but for me, I’ve seen about, nine out of every ten people, shows up with Yeast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and the big issue with Candida and Yeast is that, some people have it but, it’s just the tip of the Iceberg. The other infections that may trumpet, so to speak in the hierarchy. So, Candida may be an issue in some people, it can be a main issue. Right? Like, we’ll run a Stool Test, and we’ll see it like, “Oh. We have some Candida there.” And then we’ll look at another test. Nothing else comes back. And then on uh– Organic Acids. We’ll see the Arabinose, or the Arabinitol, really high, so we’ll, “Okay. This really maybe a Candida issue.” And then we’d see some clinical symptoms, like uhm– Seborrheic dermatitis or Cradle cap, or just you know, dandruff. You may see some yellow-discolored fingernails, maybe some white coating in the mouth, maybe some tinea versicolor rash. Right? We may see some of those things that may say, “Hey. This may be a primary Candida issue and we hit it hard.”
Evan Brand: You said that a bit quick. The tinea– what’s that? Yeah. It’s like little blotches on the skin.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. They just look like little blotches, and it’s uhm– it’s pretty smooth to the skin. It’s not really itchy. It doesn’t really spread but you want to kind of gross yourself out. Just put it in the Google images, and you’ll see the umpteenth degree of it. But it’s just gentle blotches on the skin. They tend to be a little [inaudible]and scarred.
Evan Brand: I know sometimes people may think it’s that but it could be like Keratosis pilaris instead.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Keratosis pilaris tends to be a little bit more flaky, and uhm– that tends to hit the back of the arms. [inaudible]…
Evan Brand: Yeah. Such like on your triceps he’s pointing to.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …like little back here. Right? That tends to be essential fatty acid stuff. So again, if you’re having issues digesting fats, someone in our live chat, so they don’t break down fat well. Hope you get the gut work done, ‘cause that’s a big, big component. ’Cause if you’re not breaking down fat well, you’re probably not breaking down protein well, either.
Evan Brand: So that would mean, if you’re spinning your heart and money on a good quality fish oil, then you could be potentially wasting your money even if it’s triglyceride form, if digestion’s compromised.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, most underrated supplements out there, if you were to start on two things: enzymes and HCl. That’s it. Enzymes and HCl get the diet. [clears throat] Excuse me; frog at me. Get the diet a hundred percent dialed-in so, you can actually break down that food. Put the money on the food quality. Get the food quality up.
Evan Brand: Yep. I had a lady tell me, she’s like, “I feel so much better by doing Apple cider vinegar. I don’t notice taking enzymes and HCl.” And I was like, “Okay. You can try it. But I– I’ve still think HCl and enzymes do better than just …
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh.
Evan Brand: …apple cider vinegar but– so…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Apple cider vinegar’s a great starting point if someone’s like, “Ooh. I don’t know. I’d had some bad reactions to HCl.” Okay. Great let’s just start with the teaspoon of apple cider, but, we’re gonna go with food in your belly first. And then they’ll do good, alright, let’s go to a tablespoon. [crosstalk] Okay, let’s go to–
Evan Brand: You know what I’d do? I make a little tonic. I’ll do like uh– apple cider vinegar. I recently got uh–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: …a lime, or like a citrus, squeezer. So, I’ll do like uh– a lime or lemon and uh– apple cider vinegar in there. And then, sometimes, I’ll add like some Vitamin C, or I’ll add that adrenal tincture I told you about. I’ll add that tincture to it. And it’s like a great little tonic.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think that’s great, and then, typically, then we do a little graduation ceremony when we go from that apple cider vinegar to the HCl. That’s the next step.
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any of the comments said? What do you think, man?
Evan Brand: I think we should wrap it up. I think we’d hit a lot of different triggers here. And if people want to learn more, you’ve done plenty of videos on Hashimoto’s. We’ve done more podcasts on this, so there’s hours of more content, I’m sure, that we’ve created on this. So, just go on justinhealth.com. You can search Hashimoto’s or search thyroid. You could check out my site too, Evan Brand, and make sure you’re subscribed. So, if you want to join in on the conversation, we can answer your questions on the fly. And, of course, if you want to work with Justin, visit his site too, jusyinhealth.com. You can schedule. If you want to schedule with me, same thing, evanbrand.com. And, we’re available. We deal with this stuff all the time, and don’t take no for an answer. Somebody says, “No, I’m not gonna run these antibodies, then you leave.” You fire them because, if you want to get on the root cause of your issue. You have to have the biomarkers. If you’re guessing and checking, you’re building up your supplement graveyard, you’re not gonna get better that way. You really got to get these number on a piece of paper first, because you got to be able to track them and we have to be able to see. “Okay, look. Once we did this, we fix your gut. We got the adrenal support.” And look at the antibodies, drop, drop, drop, drop. And then eventually, “Hey. Maybe you don’t have a thyroid problem anymore.” And it’s totally possible we do it all the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. So, here’s the sequence. Ready? Instead of buying crap food, you increase the food quality, and you choose the right kinds of food. That’s number one. That will start to get– that will start to lower inflammation, and give you more energy. As you start having more energy, you can start cutting the emotional stress out of your life. Get used to it with your spouse. Work on it with your spouse. Get a book on communication. Get it– things fixed with your kids. Do your best to fix things at work. Whatever other stressors, all dealing with emotional stress takes energy. So most people that have a lot of emotional stress, typically they don’t have the energy to deal with it. So, get the energy up by just getting the food right. Then you can start to deal with the emotional stress. And then, once that’s kind of dialed-in, you can start adding in some supplements to fast-track it. first set iss gonna be digestive support, and after that, you really want to work with the functional medicine doc to get everything else dialed-in. But work on the foundational stuff first, and then make sure while you’re doing all that, you’re not causing yourself to spin around in a rabbit wheel. While you’re doing excessive exercise, too much CrossFit, just so you’re getting drained with that. And then if you can combine in the good sleep and the good hydration, now you’re set. So, now, when you go see a functional medicine doc, it’s like, “Boom!” You hit the ground running.
Evan Brand: Oh, man. We could– we could have done a whole podcast just on CrossFit and thyroid issues, so maybe for a future day. But yeah, over exercise – I have a lady last week. She said, she exercises CrossFit six or seven times a week. She’s doing CrossFit, and like, “Gosh!” way too much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And a CrossFit may be great if you’re – if you’re already healthy, if you’re diet’s spot on, if you’re resting hard, if you’re doing some good things, post-workouts and pre-workouts to recover. But if you’re not there, it’s not gonna be the best thing for you to start off. Unless, you’re a gym’s got a really good On-Ramp Program, and they get the Arm Wrap style in, where they’re not doing some, you know– they have some great timing with their Arm Wraps, then it’s probably okay. But you got to go somewhere where there’s a good Arm Wrap Program.
Evan Brand: But even then, even if you were optimally healthy like you were talking about, would you still tell somebody, “Go do seven days a week in CrossFit?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. No,– the only– I mean, professional athletes do that if they want, but they’re taking naps, and that’s their job during the day. But, the average person, typically, I would say, maxes four times a week.
Evan Brand: Working, living a life, being a parent or uh– spouse, I mean, it’s tough.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And, ideally, spread it out. Right? Monday, Tuesday– Monday, Wednesday, Friday gig, you know. During the week, trying to keep a day off in between.
Evan Brand: Yep, yep. Well said. You said something else in your, in your small rant. I forgot what it was. I was gonna– I was gonna ping off of it. But I guess we should wrap this thing up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it’s funny, like, you ping me at lunch time, “Let’s do a podcast, alright.” And then we’re like “Only fifteen minutes. Only. That’s it.” Then, it’s all like, an hour later, “Damn it!”
Evan Brand: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: “What happened?”
Evan Brand: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We tried to be disciplined.
Evan Brand: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. Well, I think we hit all the good stuff on the foundatinal side. Is there anything you wanted to add to the foundational piece?
Evan Brand: That’s exactly what it was. Blood sugar balance, make sure that that’s keep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: That was exactly a blood sugar balance, hydration, you’re getting your good minerals, using your good salts, uh – using trace minerals if you have to, trace mineral supplements if needed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Uh– we talked about the fatty acids with the fish oil. Optimizing HCl and enzymes, supporting the liver, gull bladder, supporting detox pathways, supporting methylation if you have to, uh– and looking for the root cause, getting the testing. Without the [crosstalk] testing, you’re guessing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. [crosstalk] Love it. Excellent. Alright. Evan, I’m gonna go hang up here on YouTube. I’ll go say goodbye on my Facebook peeps, and we’ll talk real soon, my man.
Evan Brand: Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Sinus and ear infection solutions – Podcast #133
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand plunge into a discussion about ear and sinus infections and how nutrition either boosts our immune system or makes our bodies susceptible to infections. Be well informed about the products and natural solutions they have used in successful treatment of infections they have encountered with young ones and adult patients, too.
If you have kids, pregnant, breast feeding or planning to breast feed, listen very well and get loads of beneficial information regarding the importance of breast milk, high-quality and nutritious diet, as well as supplements for the mom that may affect the babies in relation to infections. Also, learn more about recent research in antibiotic use and its possible negative effects in our ability to fight off infections.
In this episode, we cover:
02:47 Ear Infections
06:23 Antibiotics and its side-effects
10:26 Nutrition and the importance of breast milk
18:26 Natural Solutions & Product Recommendations
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we’re back. We’re live on YouTube and Facebook. Evan, how we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, what is going on? Good old technology.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. Excellent. I guess you got the memo. It’s the uh—blue polo day.
Evan Brand: Yes, sir. Happy Friday.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. A little—I got my Lulu lemon on. We gotta get them as the show sponsor of our clothes.
Evan Brand: I agree. That will be a great sponsor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You gave me that idea the other day. So I like that. I’m gonna jump on board with it.
Evan Brand: Yes. So this idea we’re—we’re gonna discuss today, we’re gonna discuss some allergy issues, sinuses, ear infections, which a lot of this could apply to children, but adults, too. I mean this is something we deal with all the time, we hear about all the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: A lot of fear mongering all the time about ear infections and that’s one of the most common reasons that children are getting put on antibiotics. That’s like their first exposure to antibiotics as they get an ear infection. So we should dive in. This is gonna be fun.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So if you’re listening on Facebook, I’m gonna pin down a link so you can access the video on YouTube live. Coz YouTube live is where we’re gonna have the back and forth until we get the Facebook setup. So Evan, how’s your day going, man? It’s Friday morning. I’m really excited.
Evan Brand: It’s great. I’ve got the window open. It’s gonna be 80° today, the birds are chirping, the grass is green and growing. I can’t complain.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Oh by the way, I have an awesome announcement for uh—just for me, and you, an the listeners. My wife and I will be expecting our first baby this fall. So we are super excited. It’s a boy, too, so—
Evan Brand: That is awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hence why I’m wearing the blue today. The baby blues.
Evan Brand: Love it, man. Congrats.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you. Excellent. Well, what did you have for breakfast, Evan ?
Evan Brand: Did I eat today? Yeah. I ate. I had bison jerky and some matcha tea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Matcha. Love it.
Evan Brand: That was it. Actually, I just finished out the Matcha and now I’ve got some vitamin C here. I’m drinking about 3 g of vitamin C with some good clean water and that’s it. I was gonna do some berries this morning. My wife got some blackberries yesterday but I decided against it. Just went with the bison jerky, so I’m probably in a slightly ketotic state right now, which I feel pretty good and my brain is working.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s excellent, man. Very, very good.
Evan Brand: How about you?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Today I had some high-quality coffee with some butter and some MCT. I put about 10 or 20 g of collagen in it. And after the podcast today, I’m gonna make a nice little uh— green drink. Add a little MCT to that. You know, some fresh organic, green vegetables, maybe a little carrot to sweeten it up. And add some more collagen onto that just so I have some good fats and good protein and some good uh—micronutrients. So really, really excited there.
Evan Brand: Sound good, man. Sounds good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let’s dig in. We talked about yesterday, kinda in our—pre set up for the podcast about talking about sinus and ear infections. The natural solutions we can do to help address sinus and ear infections. So what do you think about that?
Evan Brand: Totally. Yeah. Let’s hit it. Like I mentioned in the beginning. Ear infections are gonna be the common reason that kids and children are gonna be put on antibiotics. A lot of times, ear infections are preventable which we can talk about because food allergies are gonna be one of the most common causes that you can modify. And so, we can talk about the influence of dairy, your sugar, your fruit juices, your grains, your gluten, your sodas. I mean all these things are impacting your immune system that can set you up for potential ear infections. And honestly, a lot of children that you and I work with, likely have tubes put in because the doctor fear mongers them and there’s actually no evidence that ear tubes actually even work that much. Mercola has got a great of studies about this showing that, in the short term, the ear tubes, they get put in, can reduce the time with the middle ear infection. But it in the long term, there is no longer benefit of tubes. And so, you know, when I quote one of the studies here, “The said tubes and watchful waiting does not differ in terms of language, cognitive, or academic outcomes.” Basically they don’t do much. And a lot of times—what about the adenoids, too. I mean a lot of people get their adenoid removed for these things. That seems a bit extreme.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I can speak from personal experience because I tubes many, many times. I had chronic ear infection that the child. Now here’s kinda the vicious cycle, right? Because we talked about—And we’ll put here, we have some really good studies that we’re gonna put down below. Looking at the microbiome connection. That’s kinda the gut microbiota and its connection with healthy ears, right? Healthy ear, flora health, right? So if we have ear infections, because of other reason which we’ll go into, and then we start taking antibiotics for those ear infections, that then disrupts the microflora. And that creates further imbalance that will perpetuate more and more frequent ear infections down the road. So you see the vicious cycle that conventional medicine really throws down is they’re not addressing the root cause of why these things happen in the first place. And then they give medication that actually works to treat the symptoms in the short run. But then actually perpetuate a need for more of that intervention and more of these problems. And then I can’t tell you how many patients— patients that I see that have been on more antibiotics throughout their life tend to be sicker and have—they’re the hardest to work with because of chronic gut infections, chronic gut inflammation and extreme food sensitivity because their gut microflora is so screwed up. So we really want to mitigate the use of antibiotics only to like absolutely must-haves. Now, if I go back in time and look at the things that drove me to have all the ear infections, gluten and dairy was huge. And part of the being reason why is I think that it affects the microflora, it creates more of an inflammatory environment but it also is gonna affect lympha—lymphatics. Coz I remember my ears always feeling like there was crap in it. Like I would like go swab it when I was younger and there’s gonna be so much junk in it. And my ears always felt full. So I do believe the research show some lymphatic increases when these inflammatory foods are there. So to live with all this fluid that interplay between the tissue and the blood, and the more sluggish that is, right? The more viscous that gets, that can create the ability for these—for that stuff to hang out longer and potentially perpetuate uh— infections. So making sure those foods are out. Go ahead, Evan.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So before we get into the functional approach to all of this, you know, we should talk about some of the side effects. So you mention what happens with antibiotics and now there is research that shows that antibiotics cause permanent damage to the DNA. So this is not something benign where you’re on the antibiotic for 4 or 6 or 8 weeks or even like a 7-day pack. This is lifetime impact. And I think we should probably add the question to our intake form when we’re working with our new clients. How many rounds of antibiotics have you—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Already on my intake form.
Evan Brand: Over—over your lifetime, though. I mean, yeah, a lot of times I’ve had people people would not even have a count because it could be in the dozens of times. I uh— typically like every 2 to 3 years, like what’s the last two to three year history of antibiotics? But I feel like we should almost say over the life, how many have you had?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have that exact question on mind. I have one patient like a month or two ago, they said between 0 and 5 years of age, they had 120 antibiotic prescriptions.
Evan Brand: Oh my god.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like you gotta be kidding me.
Evan Brand: That’s—that’s. I mean they are passed out like they are
Skittles, which is unfortunate now. Now, let’s talk about side effects. I mean if you are getting tubes, for example, then you could potentially have hearing loss from that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: I’ve read about some cases of hearing loss, you’ve got calcification of the tissue in the middle ear, and then also getting the, adenoids removed which I don’t know why, but the they—they always tell, “let’s go ahead, remove your adenoids, too as we put in these tubes.” And then—I mean, you’ve got risk of hemorrhage, you’ve got bleeding issues, you’ve got potential infection sites that could pop out where you got the surgery removed. I mean, it’s just crazy. My wife when she was a nanny down in Austin, the kids that she was a nanny for, everyday, literally if the kids were fussy, the mom would say, “Hey, if ever they get fuzzy, just give them Ibuprofen or Tylenol and Motrin—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Terrible.
Evan Brand: Or give them– And just because they’re fussy. And a lot of times, she said, “I would try to not give them the dose. I would act like I’m dozing them the medication.” But my wife knew what it was doing to their guts. And, of course, these kids get sick, they get up on antibiotics then both kids had tubes, then both kids had their adenoid surgery. It’s just crazy. So, yeah. Let’s talk about diet. I mean you hit on gluten and dairy, food intolerance is gonna be huge, and also, for me a big one is gonna be—which if you’re an adult now, it’s too late. But whether you were breastfed, or whether you are formula-fed because breast milk is like the most ultimate super food ever.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So you hit a couple of things that I wanna backtrack on for the listeners. You mentioned the adenoids. And the adenoids and the tonsils are the first vessel for the lymphatic system to come in contact with—with our environment. So the adenoids are kinda like in the upper sinus back area, where the tonsils are in the back of the throat. So it’s like tonsils – adenoids. And they’re that first— first vessel for the lymphatic system. And that lymph is designed—think of it as like the fit—the air filter in your house, or the filter in your pool. It’s really designed to pull out a lot of that crud. Now the thing is, if we’re constantly driving a ton of inflammation, and a ton of crud’s going in there, it’s like getting a smoker in your house. What’s your air filter gonna look like in a couple of weeks? couple of month? It’s gonna be black. Now what’s gonna happen when that air filter gets so clogged that the pressure is increasing and now the HVAC and the heater has to work so hard now the heater is heating up, i.e. were having infections, right? Well, guess what conventional medicine would do? They would say, “Let’s just pull out the air filter and put a new one.” Right? But in—in the real world, example, right? When you pull the tonsils out and the adenoids out it’s gone. You don’t put a new one in, right? So it’s like, “Let’s just pull out the air filter and leave nothing there.” Because now nothing get’s clogged, right? But holistically and functional medicine-wise we say, “Hey! You’re smoking at my house, get the hell out, right? You’re clogging out my filter! Get out of here! Right? That’s kind of the solution. Now the smoke is coming from the smoker in your house but in a real world example, it’s coming from a lot of the foods—uh— especially refined sugar, it’s coming from refined dairy, it’s coming from gluten, of course, and obviously getting, you know, lack of breast milk is going to be huge. I did not get a chance to have breast milk that long as a child, alright? Did not. Only a couple of weeks. It’s kind of like that thing I really wish I could go back in time, and like, “Mom you need to breast-feed me longer.” She said, “Look I didn’t want it, whatever.” I’m a baby. I didn’t know any better. C’mon. But in general, that’s what I would’ve wanted to have happen. But the breast milk is a big thing, right? Having that breast milk, for at least that for six months minimum a year, World Health Organization says, 18 months. I try to at least get all my patients to do a year. That’s super, super important for starting the cascade of good microbiome health and thus, affecting the ear, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Now if you’re an adult and like myself, too, I was formula fed for most of my baby years. I mean there’s nothing we can do now but to work forwards. So this is involved – this is getting the testing run now. So if you’re an adult, and you’ve had ear infections, or you had your tubes in, or you had the adenoids removed, well, you—you gotta get yourself tested because 9 out of every 10 clients that we test, we’re gonna find some type of issue in the gut. And this is bacterial in nature, which could be for previous antibiotic use. This is yeast so we’re talking, Candida mainly, we’re looking for albicans and SPT—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: Although there is about 20 different species of Candida. And then we’re looking for parasites, too, because anything that’s gonna damage the gut barrier, can also leave you susceptible to ear infections, sinus problems, any type of allergies. Because your gut is basically the foundation. So, you don’t necessarily have to go straight to the ear which we’re gonna talk about some ear treatments that you can do to fix your infections and these problems. But a lot of times, do you agree this has to start in the gut. We’ve gotta make sure that you’ve got a healthy gut, and a healthy blood brain barrier, and a healthy—uh – basically a sealed-up gut, for lack of a better term.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. It all starts in the gut, it all starts with the food. Now, I see people, I seen parents online and I—I jump on there, and they’re like complaining about their kid’s ear infection and I’m just like, “Alright, I’ll be a good Samaritan doctor.” I’ll be like, “Hey! Do this, do that, and it’s always ignored.” Like, I look at all the likes and the comments, people are like “Oh! Poor thing! Get this done! Get antibiotics!” And then my comment that actually addresses a solution goes like, unanswered, kind of ignored because it actually involves making some changes. So, people— I think people are getting the idea that the conventional solutions for these things aren’t working and are creating more problems. But uhm—you know, it’s definitely some extra effort that you have to do, but in the end, I remember of having tubes and chronic ear infections for so long up into my— even early teens. It was terrible, I was miserable! Now I didn’t get a lot of the sinus stuff, my brother got a lot of the sinuses. But in my opinion, whether its ears or sinuses, it’s just the weak link in the chain. The same mechanism that’s affecting the sinus issues is the same thing that’s affecting the ear issues.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about allergies too? I mean you and I talk a lot about the stress bucket, and so what you and I were talking about before we went live is, how many people have allergies? And it’s almost per trade, is it’s a “normal thing”, but I always tell people just because something is common, like saying ear infection or sinus issues or allergies that doesn’t mean that it’s normal. And you’ve got these Claritin commercials and you’ve got these other pharmaceutical drugs to get on TV, and they make it seem like everybody needs—everybody needs that, everybody has allergies. The outdoors, it—it’s just a crazy environment, there’s grass, and trees, and flowers and oh my god, you’re not meant to live outdoors. You’re meant to live in your little bubble, and anytime you go outdoor, well, you need our pharmaceutical protection. And that’s just crazy. If you do have environmental allergies, there’s likely some deeper stuff going on. That could be adrenal related, it could be gut related, the yeast, the bacteria, the parasites. It could be detox problems, if you got sluggish liver, if you’re not digesting your foods well, if you’ve got food sensitivities, so you’ve not remove the gluten and the dairy from the diet, that stress bucket’s full. Then you go outside and then you do get allergies which gives you the sinus problems and maybe that gets worse and worse and turns into some type of ear problem. We have a question, from—let’s see—Genesis, on here, he said, “Why do my ears ache when it’s windy?” What’s your take on that? To me, I would just say go you get your gut check. But I’m not sure why that would happen.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s kind of—that’s kind of vague—uhm—typically, the more inflamed certain parts of the body are, the more sensitive to certain things it will be. Like if I have from chronically inflamed to shifting my manual car may create some elbow inflammation. Now, is the shifting of the car really the problem? No. It’s the roomful of gasoline or the roomful of gas fumes and it’s that small little match that— that burns down the house. Even though the match went off, it’s with the inflammatory environment of all the gas fumes that are hanging out. That’s the issue. So I was always look at the underlying inflammatory environment that’s setting up the milieu to then when that spark goes off to create that issue. And that spark essentially being the wind there.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. I wanna go back to not just making it an anti-antibiotic podcast but I do want to mention the fact that—that even the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention they write that ear infections will often get better on their own without antibiotic treatment. Taking antibiotics when they’re not needed is harmful. Un— unwanted side effects like diarrhea, rashes, nausea stomach pain, more serious side effects can occur.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Evan Brand: Which can include life-threatening allergic reactions, kidney toxicity, severe skin reactions. And each time your child takes antibiotic, the bacteria that live in the body ,skin, mouth, intestine. And now we know that there’s a microbiome of the ear. Isn’t that crazy?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s crazy. The microbiome of the ear. Everywhere. I mean vaginal canal, gut, everything. It’s all—It’s interconnected, for sure. So also, couple of side effects with the antibiotics that we really need to talk about is the mitochondria.
Mitochondria are like these little power houses of the cell that generate ATP which is the currency of energy in which our body functions. And that’s so important for optimal energy. I mean, Dave Asprey has got a book coming out or it’s coming up very soon. He’ll be here in Austin next week. And its called, Head Strong and it’s all about basically improving your mitochondria. And your mitochondria is so important. Just google “mitochondria and antibiotics” you’ll see a strong connection. We put some of these links in previous podcasts. I’ll let the viewers do your homework. I will post a reference section on the bottom. Antibiotics and mitochondria, you’ll find significant disruption of the mitochondria with antibiotics. And obviously, it’s dose-dependent, right? The more you do it, the more you use it, the potential that increase has to happen. So that’s another mechanism. Now, we can talk about some solutions. Any thing else you want to address, Evan, before we actually dig in with some solutions?
Evan Brand: Sure. I’d like to just pile on top of the mitochondrial thing you mentioned. You know, a lot of clients come to us with brain fog and chronic fatigue as well as a starting place and maybe they’ve had these type of infections but they’ve also got chronic fatigue. And you’ve just brought the word “mitochondria” so it sounds like to me, we could infer based on someone’s use and history of antibiotics that we can infer. Well, here’s a root cause of chronic fatigue is the mitochondria that’s been damaged from antibiotics. So that’s really gonna make us have to do a lot more work on supporting mitochondrial health, but then getting the gut back in check, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And also, cortisol. I mean if—if we’re bringing babies into this world that are adrenally-depleted, again, this is kind of weird but if a woman is stressed, especially that during pregnancy, you can put on certain you can activate certain epigenetics that will start exacerbating or stimulating that babies adrenal in the third trimester. And the more stressed that mom is throughout pregnancy, you’re activating certain epigenetics, but also in the third trimester, gonna be stimulating the babies adrenal glands. So if you bring a baby into this world with a lot of adrenal dysfunction, off the bat, they may have an inability to regulate inflammation in general coz they’re not spitting out enough cortisol. Now we don’t ever want to treat a baby directly, you know, supplement-wise. We would do it by getting the mom really healthy. Uhm—the only thing I recommend to a child, probably off the bat, if they’re having issues, is probiotics. And then we could talk about maybe some homeopathic drops, or some natural solution to be put in the ear topically uh—to hit the area very focused versus do a systemic kind of atom bomb dropped.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. I thought that was crazy 3-4 years ago when I heard the fact that you can basically steal your—your baby your fetus’ adrenal glands. This is why some women report feeling so good during pregnancy and some of it could be that they’re deriving some of their boost from the adrenals of the baby and then you give birth. Now instead of having four adrenals that your thriving energy from, you got two adrenals just—you’re driving energy from. And some women have kind of that postpartum either Hashimoto’s or some type of postpartum depression. So yeah, that’s a trip. There was a question here, “Can your sinuses get clogged for years?” I mean I would say, “Absolutely!” What do you think? If you’ve got these uhm— food allergies in your diet for years and yeah, you could stay clogged up all the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. So that congestion can happen. Now we also have to look at physical structure issues, especially in the nasal area. So being a chiropractic doc, you really want to make sure that you are well-adjusted like make sure you at least see a good chiropractor once a month and make sure your cervical spine and everything is doing well, number one. Number two, you may have some turbinate issues with these bones up here in the spine. You may need a technique called “nasal specific” where they put these balloons up and they can help declog any of these turbinate issues whether from trauma or malformation. And again, Weston A. Price talks about poor nutrition. One of the things that happens is narrowing of the middle third with this area— here is broken into a third – a third – and a third. And the more nutritionally-deficient the parent was that brought you into this world, this middle third starts to narrow. So one of the biggest signs of gluten sensitivity and poor nutrition is a narrowing middle third and a very large upper thirds. So when you see people walking down the street with that big forehead and you see that smaller middle third, with that smaller lower third, gluten deficiency, poor nutrition of the parents, big time, off the bat. So again, some of this we can’t really change, right? Like the parent stuff, that’s all epigenetic stuff. But we can at least be aware that we’re bringing kids and babies into the world, right? We got to get the nutrition dialed in. That’s number one. Number two, uhm—chiropractic’s helpful on the spine as well as the nasal canal and nasal specific. And also, acutely, chiropractic can be great for the—uhm— for the canal of the child. The person with the ear issue. Now when you’re younger, the ear canal tends to be more parallel, right? So it won’t drain as well. You have that—that draining angles. So one of the things that some chiropractors will do is, pull my ear front out, they’ll do a specific adjustment where they rotate the ear, they pull it, they rotate it in clockwise and they tug. And that tug kinda opens up the uhm—the nasal canal and will allow some of that junk to drain. Now, is that root cause? No. Is it palliative without any— without very little side effects and no— not affecting the microbiome and inflammation? Yes. So it’s a really good from a palliative perspective. Again, spine, really good. Nasal really good and then the ear adjustment, that’s the next really good step.
Evan Brand: That’s great. Now what happened with my wife, I believe, I don’t know if we were swimming in the ocean, or where we were, but she came home and her ear which is clogged. And we thought, “Man, this is gonna turn into an ear infection.” Coz she had this water that was just in her ear for like a week. And I said, “Justin, what do I do?” And you said, “Evan, you’ve gotta go get these—these eardrops. Do you remember that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yup.
Evan Brand: And—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was the Citricidal Eardrops. Those are great. Little bit of grapefruit seed extract in there. Those eardrops are phenomenal. Also, men, Hydrogen Peroxide, 3% it’s like two dollars at your uhm— drugstore. Just a little cap for that, it will bubble like crazy. Leave it in there till the bubbling stops and then you can dump it out. That was my go-to ear infection. I was waterskiing on Lake Traverse two years ago and I took a header. And I perforated this eardrum and uh—whole bunch of you know, bacteria and crap from the lake got in there. And one of the things I did was hydrogen peroxide and I diluted with a little bit of silver. So hydrogen peroxide – silver. That way, I could just clear that crap right out.
Evan Brand: That’s amazing. Now when-when you did that to your eardrum, was there any other bad side effects? What happened?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just the side effects of a perforated eardrum. It’s irritated, it’s inflamed. Uhm— when you have an ear issue, man, it screws everything up because just sounds that come in are just like balance, just you’re over hyped up. So everything is irritating and kinda bother you. That my wife just leave me alone for a few days but then we just gonna do all the good things that help with the inflammation and all the good healing nutrients. I use the uh—the Similasan’s. Similasan’s, they have a really good homeopathic eardrop that we used. I use the Citricidal eardrops. I use some silver and I used some hydrogen peroxide and I kinda just rotated those. And growing up, hydrogen peroxide was absolutely phenomenal for the ear coz it’s just so cheap and it’s great. And actually that’s a natural—uhm— flu or cold kind of cure because they say a lot of ways that viruses kinda vector into your body is through the ear. So just doing like a little capful of that 3% hydrogen peroxide, it can really knock out potentially any viruses or bacteria making their way into the body.
Evan Brand: I think I told you when I met with one of the—the higher-ups at designs for health, which is a professional healthcare company if people are listening. I met with one of the higher-ups and he said he travels like 250 days a year. He’s always concerned about picking up sinus infections or ear infections from being on airplanes all the time. And one of his preventative measures was he was taking the silver in a spray bottle and he would spray his ear canals.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: Then he would spray his nose, right? You know, kind of like a barrier protection around his holes of his— his nostrils in his ears. And the guy never got sick, so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Totally make sense. So, off the bat, we kinda have the preventative stuff with the mom to baby, and stress in the adrenals. Obviously, try to have a vaginal birth. It’s gonna be essential because the activation of the bacteria in the vaginal canal and how that affects the child’s immune system. Number two, if you can’t get, for some reason, emergency happens where the cord gets wrapped around the child, the child’s oxygen levels drop and you have to have a C-section or the baby’s breach, number one, see a chiropractor beforehand. Get Webster technique to get that baby to go headfirst. But let’s say you can prevent that. Number two, go in there, and again, the doctor and the midwife probably won’t do this. So you have to get in there, get in there with a good swab. Swab your wife’s vagina area and then afterwards, when that baby comes out, you swab the baby with it because the baby would be getting exposed to that, anyway and now it’s not. So do a good swab, put it in like a little baggie and then after the C-section, then you— when you’re doing skin-to-skin, have that baby all swabbed on. Now don’t tell the— the doctor or nurse what you’re doing coz they’re probably look at you like 10 heads. And this is—you know, I told my OB about this ahead of time, she’s like, “Oh, well, you know, you can do that, but just keep it to yourself. We don’t have a problem with it, but you just keep it to yourself.” So that’s what we’re doing if that does happen. So have a back up plan, ideally.
Evan Brand: Totally. And why? Why—why would they— why is it have to be so hush-hush, I don’t understand what the deal is?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it’s – in conventional medicine, there’s a conveyor belt man. Like here is what you do, here’s the cookbook, great. 1-2-3-4-5. And anytime you put a kink in that step, or something that disrupts that flow, you know, everyone perks up and it’s like, “What—What’s happening?” You know. So the more you can just lull them to keep that procedure going uh—it’s ideal.
Evan Brand: Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I had a client who—I’m trying to—who it was—it was either yesterday or the day before and she actually went to her conventional doctors to show the lab test, the organic acids test and he’s like, “This isn’t even a valid test. I’ve never heard of this before.” It’s like just coz you never heard of organic acids testing, doesn’t mean it’s not valid. You try to say that uh—instead of the herbs that were gonna use for Candida that she should just be using a Diflucan and— which is a prescription which is just unnecessary, so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There can be a lot of side effects with Diflucan. I tried it before the—with the uh— with the fungal infection in the past. Coz I just was trying all these different things and one of the side effects I found was lightheadedness. That drug cause a ton of lightheadedness, insane.
Evan Brand: That’s scary.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And there’s some research that it can cause neurological problems, too. So I mean, some people it may not be a bad thing, uhm— if you’re combining it with herbs and everything else and it’s just a part of the program, but just as like a, “Hey, you know, don’t change your diet, don’t do anything else, just take this.” —probably not gonna be the best long-term solution.
Evan Brand: Yup. So I think—I think we —we’ve we kinda jumped around. We jumped into some—some solutions and side effects and all that’s— I mean really diets can be first step, getting a nutrition plan in place it’s gonna be more like a Paleo or autoimmune paleo diet, potentially getting rid of your grains, your sugars, of course your sodas, your juices gotta go, pasteurized dairy—it’s gotta go. I remember for me, with my skin, you were like, “Evan, even though it’s organic grass-fed cheese, you still gotta cut it out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Your skin look so much better compared to last year.
Evan Brand: I know. So I had to get rid of it, even though I miss it and it was delicious. I rather feel good and, you know, have— have better skin. So you’ve got a get out the— the dairy except for butter. Sometimes you can do okay with butter and the wheat. I mean we talked about that but any type of gluten issues you’re gonna be creating the intestinal permeability. Even if you don’t have celiac, doesn’t matter. The gluten is still gonna affect the gut which is therefore going to make you more susceptible to ear infections and allergies and sinus problems. Uhm— secondhand smoke, we talked— you talked about that a little bit, that analogy. But yes, uhm— there is research that secondhand smoke also increases the risk of ear infections for children. So if you’re going over to a family’s house or someone in the family smokes—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And then when you hold the baby, uhm— don’t let them do that. Also, if you are gonna bottle feed for some reason, apparently, bottle-feeding while lying down increases your risk of ear infections. That’s something that I just learned this morning with some research, but it makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Also, the quality of the food that the mom eats has a huge effect on the baby, okay. I’ll give you an example, alright? My neighbor —her child had a really difficult time sleeping continuously, up every half-hour. The big thing that they did is they pulled out eggs, and it was one nightshade family made up of eggs and tomatoes. And that one tweak, change the composition of the breast milk and the baby slept like just magic. So quality of breast milk is incredibly important and is dependent upon what the mom eats. So if you’re having issues with your child off the bat, even if it’s just sleep or ears, get your diet super, super clean. Super, super clean. Just because you’re feeding a baby or growing the baby, it’s not a license to eat whatever the heck you want. Nutrient density is incredibly important. With my wife being pregnant, we— we’re doing lots of things to increase nutrient density. She gets exposure to a little bit of liver everyday. Uhm— she does a green smoothie with organic vegetables in the morning, we mix in some MCT oil there. We do some collagen. She gets some Pasteur-fed eggs and Pasteur-fed bacon from time to time. And she’s eating 3 solid meals a day. And then get one good, healthy, organic shake in there. And really mitigating stress, and some probiotics and some magnesium to keep the bowel moving. So when you get pregnant with the hCg and all that stress down, it can create some issues with regularity. So that’s — I don’t wanna go too much on that, that’s a separate podcast. But, you know, we could just— we could do a podcast marathon and be here for 8 hours—I think, it allows us to do 8-hour straight, so we should uh—we should push that one time.
Evan Brand: We could. We could to a marathon.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: So we—we hit on the—the eardrops, there’s garlic eardrops, too that I’ve read about. I’ve personally not use those. I’ve only used the uh— grape seed extract. Also, breast milk for eardrops. If you have a small little dropper, you can use breast milk for your drops, And it’s gonna be safer, less expensive, far better than antibiotics. Also, I don’t know if read about this, but coconut oil eardrops apparently exist, where basically I mean, all I would—I wouldn’t buy a specific drop, I would just take a load of the coconut, heat it up a bit, and then put into a container.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.
Evan Brand: You’re gonna get the caprylic acid in there. Which is probably gonna be the best thing. What else you—you got capric acid in there, or two that maybe gonna acts as a natural antimicrobial.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So let’s kinda go through some of the sinus stuff. So, off the bat, with the sinus, you can do Xlear, too, which is great. Xylitol which is an anti-biofilm kinda type of sugar alcohol and it also has an effect of being antibacterial. So that’s excellent.
Evan Brand: What is it called?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Xlear or X-Y-L-E-A-R. We’ll put links below the video and in the transcription, we’ll put some amazon product links, too. So if you guys wanna support us, you can get some of the things that we’re talking about through our affiliate links.
Evan Brand: Perfect.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And these are things that I usually that I bought and used, too. Anything we talk about and recommend are things that I have personally done myself or have seen my patients do it with great success. So what you’ll read, though—we’re all about clincial results first. So Xlear is great, or Xylear, however you pronounce that. Next is gonna be—Dave Asprey’s got a good bulletproof sinus rinse which is really good. You got a big salad bowl. We’ll put the link for this, too. You put a whole bunch of—just gently warm water in there. You do about a quarter of a teaspoon of some high-quality salt—sea salt in there. And a couple of drops iodine for the most part. And then you’re gonna dip your head upside down, and then you’re gonna breathe or you’re gonna suck that in to the nose. Keep your mouth out of the water, of course. Suck it in to the nose. So it will kinda feel like you’re drowning, not the nicest feeling, uhm—but that will be really, really helpful. So half a teaspoon of high quality sea salt for every cup of water. That will prevent bacterial overgrowth. You can add a little bit of iodine in or a little bit of Xylitol. So basically, you’re gonna do the whole little dippy bird, a little—tip—tip your head back. Don’t tilt your head back or you’ll gag. So keep your spine parallel to the floor and then you’re gonna breathe in to the nose. And I will put the protocol down below. So blink your eyes a few times. The iodine will sterilize the lining of your eyes if you get it in your eye. So be careful with the iodine in your eyes and that will significantly help clear out. And I will put protocol down below as well. Next, you can do a Nasaline, as well. And I’ll do the Nasaline with the Neti Xlear or the NetiXlear, which is potassium biocarbs, some salt and uh—Xylitol, and a little bit of uh—I think that’s pretty much it. And it goes into the solution, and then you can pump it through with a Nasaline which is basically a plunger for your nose. So a Neti Pot’s one thing but you just pour it and it’s gravity that goes through. The Nasaline, it goes through in one nostril and it’s a plunger where you push it. So you get full contact of the sinus canal and then will go through and rinse that everything with full contact.
Evan Brand: That seems way better than the Neti Pot. I’m glad you brought that up because—because my wife she did the Neti Pot and something happened. I think she—she had some weird drainage and I think that that actually lead to her getting like kinda an ear pain from the Neti Pot. So what you’re talking about sounds way better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, think about it, right? If this is like your sinus canal, right? And we’re putting water in there. The water is just gonna hit the bottom part, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For the most part. But if you get plunger in there, and you’re plunging it with actual pressure, it’s gonna have full contact of that sinus canal. So better chance of getting all the debris out.
Evan Brand: And that’s called what?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s called a Nasaline. We’ll put the link below. We’ll put the uhm—with the references. That’s gonna be great. That’s a really good product that I had a lot of patients used with great success. So you have the Bullet Proof Sinus Rinse, you have the Nasaline. If you already have the Neti, you can feel free and use the Neti. And the key things is just using the minerals using the Xylitol and/or adding some iodine. And/or just adding some silver. Like a simple thing you can do, too, is just lie back, ten drops in each nostril, three to the four times a day of high-quality silver. You know, in my line, it’s GI Clear-3 that we use and that has the 15 to 20 ppm of nano silver, not colloidal, but it’s nano. And again, don’t worry about argyria or turning blue with that. That’s gonna primarily happen from your homemade silver products.
Evan Brand: Why is nano silver better than colloidal? You got a lot of people promoting and selling colloidal out there but can you tell us why nano is superior?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just the structure of it. It’s a different structures of a colloidal structure. It’s nanostructure so you’re gonna get better absorption for the most part.
Evan Brand: Sounds like it’s gonna be tinier the way that it’s gonna be structured.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And you can go look at—I think it’s Dr. Gordon Peterson. He’s an immunologist that’s talked a lot about this kind of silver and he’s helped formulate that kind of silver. So the nano silver, in my line, GI Clear-3, is the one we like uh—to help with that.
Evan Brand: Love it. Should we answer any couple of questions. We had a question about goat cheese. For me, dairy is dairy, regardless of the animal. I’d say pull it out especially if you’re—you are struggling. You’re better to just go completely dairy free for 30 to 60 days.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: People asking the questions, try to keep pertinent to the uh— podcast so we can connect it here. And then regarding ghee—ghee is definitely a good first dairy to add-in. So if you’re dairy-sensitive, you pull the dairy out for a few weeks to a month, and the first thing you add back in should be the ghee. Ghee is clarified butter so they suck out the lactose part. They suck out the casein part. All you got is the butter fat. So you have, basically, you know, very little casein, maybe microscopic levels and very little lactose. So you— it’s gonna be even better than butter, per se. An then if you do go with ghee, then you can try a little bit of grass-fed butter which will have very tiny amount of lactose and very tiny amounts of casein which may be acceptable level for you.
Evan Brand: For me, I could to the good quality grass-fed butter without a problem.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cheese, though—ee—cheese and even raw milk, man. I don’t do good with those. I just—I really don’t. Skin breakouts, gas, bloating—not good. But I can do great with ghee and great with grass-fed butter.
Evan Brand: Isn’t it amazing, though. I mean just that one simple swab you got on me, you’re like, “Evan , man, you’ve gotta get rid of the cheese. Coz I would talk you through, you know, we’re kinda—you and I will talk off-air about what you eat, what do you do in diet-wise and what’s working and I told you, “Man, I’m doing this organic cheese.” And I don’t know if would say I was having sinus issues, but I definitely had some—I guess I would call it head pressure. Basically, kind of like a mild headache in the front of my—in the front of my head. I did not know that that was caused from dairy. And it was.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Your skin looks a thousand times better since you cut a lot of that cheese out.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I feel good. And I cut out corn, too. Now, I will do a little bit of some organic—blue—uh—blue corn chips maybe once a month or something now. They just taste so good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. That’s one paleo demerit down there.
Evan Brand: Hey, I know you’ve done some corn in 2017, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A little bit. Well, I mean—obviously, it’s a Mexican restaurant, called Maddy’s. And we’ll do a little bit of their gluten-free organic corn chips that are like in a plastic bag. So it’s totally a waste, there’s no cross contamination. So, I will, from time to time, as a little reward. It’s Friday, you know, a little—little NorCal margarita, a little bit of Dr. J’s Moscow Mule. Yeah. Absolutely. Love it. Add it to the list.
Evan Brand: And now is that—are—or now is that blue? Or is that—is that yellow corn? I may be one up on you in the blue here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh—Yeah. I think it’s probably just the yellow. But it’s least organic and GMO free which is essential.
Evan Brand: Totally—totally.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Maddy’s is good and what was it—Tacodeli down there in Austin. They’ve got organic, pasture-raised pork shoulder tacos.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable.
Evan Brand: Have you had those?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve not. Tacodeli?
Evan Brand: Oh my, god. You’ve gotta go, man. It’s off uh—I wanna say it’s off of 360. Shouldn’t be too far from you. And they do organic uhm—they do organic tortillas as well and pasture-raised pork, so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Love it. Very cool. So let’s kinda summarize, alright? So you’re coming into this here and you missed the whole 45 minutes chat. So what are the key take homes? Diet, of course, refined sugar, dairy, gluten, grains—cut that out. If that’s not enough, you can go do an autoimmune template where we cut out, nuts, seeds, nightshades and eggs. You’ve left meat, vegetables, maybe a little bit of low, sugar fruit, maybe a little bit of starch and healthy fats minus dairy and uhm—nut and seeds. So that’s our good first step that we need. Now, after that, there are some preparation and things we can do ahead of time but may not help you in the moment. That’s the healthy pregnancy, that’s the stress, that’s getting the vaginal canal in contact with the baby on the way out to activate the immune system, that is the good quality breast milk, that is all that good stuff there. And keep them mom’s nutritional density high when she is breastfeeding because that becomes the building blocks to a lot of the uhm—raw material in the breast milk. You know my expression is you can’t make chicken salad out of a chicken shit, right?
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you got crappy quality ingredients going in that mom, guess what, you can’t make this awesome breast milk with bad ingredients. So let’s really keep the quality high. Next, we have for the sinuses, you have structural issues, you can do the nasal specific chiropractic technique, you can do adjusting of the spine, and the whole—the neck as well, especially the upper cervical area and then adjusting Eustachian tube to help increase the angle to allow the ear to drain, right? Now we have the rinses for the sinuses. We have the bulletproof rinse, we have colloidal silver uhm—for the sinuses. And we also can do hydrogen peroxide in water, 50-50 split and do drops in the nose, 4x a day, 10 drops. And then we also have the ear. We can do Similasan Homoeopathic, we can do the Citricidal; we can do the Hydrogen Peroxide; we can also do the silver. And then you can also do a little bit of garlic oil in there, as well. What do you think, Evan? I think we just like hit it all at once.
Evan Brand: Yeah. That was good. And treat the gut, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course. And the best things—the supplement you can use on your baby if they’re newborn, Infantis Probiotic. Infantis is a specific type of probiotic. One that we like is Ther-biotic Complete for Kids. That’s a great one uh—for kiddos. And—and that can be powder so you can just put in on your finger and then you can just put it in the gums or if you’re breastfeeding, you can put in the nipple area and have the child, get it from that. And also, give it to the mom and it will help with any potential translocation via the breast milk as well.
Evan Brand: I will say one last thing about breast milk and this is probably gonna only apply to maybe just a few listeners, but there are breast milk donation services out there, where for some reason if the mother is just too busy, she is working too much, I’ve seen women going and getting breast milk from other moms. I would never do that from my baby because who knows what that moms diet is like. Who knows how much glyphosate is in that. If the mother is not eating organic. We know, I just chatted with Dr. William Shaw in my podcast, you know, we’re talking about parts per billion of glyphosate which is what’s used a non-organic produce. Parts per billion being enough to disrupt uh— gut bacteria and kill beneficial bacteria in the gut which can lead to these ear infections. And so for me, I would never ever, ever, ever unless there’s was just something so wrong with the mother that she could not feed the baby—her breast milk. And she had to get another mom’s breast milk, I would literally have to do an interview process of that— of that mother. Is your diet organic? Are you eating gluten? Are you eating dairy? Because that’s gonna—breast milk is not all created equal, like you mentioned.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, it’s really simple. You just pay a little bit more money. You—you provide that food for that mother who’s donating the milk if that’s your only option.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, for the first 6 months. What you’re doing there, for 6 months to your kid is a better investment than paying for college or any of that. That’s like the best investment. So if you’re in that position and you have to do that, then definitely find someone. You know, the Lalecheleague’s a really good reference for that. But really find high-quality breast milk, if you need. There’s some Weston A Price recipes where you can do some home-made breast milk with liver extract and cod liver oil and raw milk or raw goat’s milk. But then also, like if the mom can’t breastfeed, it’s typically something wrong from a stress perspective and from a diet perspective, so really look at getting the diet fixed. I see a lot of women who go low fats have problems with producing breast milk. So—
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really, really important. And then don’t quit. Like, don’t quit. Like can you imagine, like evolutionary times where like food’s like, you can’t feed. You don’t have like formula, you didn’t have all these things. So you couldn’t breastfeed your kid, like what would you do? That was it.
Evan Brand: You’re done for.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is it. They can’t eat solid food, right? Too young, what do you do, right? So maybe there will be another woman in the tribe that you give the baby off to and they would lactate for you. But ideally, you gotta get the diet right, you gotta get the stress right and then also, make sure that the inflammatory foods are out of there so the highest quality nutrients are coming through.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It sounds like we have to do a whole breastfeeding.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Or optimal baby podcast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: But I’ve heard many women, who they’ve completely just given up on breastfeeding because they said they were too stressed or too busy or something like that. But you really gotta try to modify that to make it possible because—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll do a whole podcast on this. We’ll do a whole podcast on it. There’s a lot of nutrients and stuff you can do like fenugreek, you know, uh—mother’s milk tea. Just all kinds of things. And also, get a doula. If you’re having a hard time, get a doula. There are so many things. Like most women, it’s like, “Oh, I tried and it’s done.” No, get a doula. Like try for days, use—get someone who’s done it. So many times, they know all the tips and tricks to make it happen.
Evan Brand: Yup. Totally.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s coming from someone who wasn’t breastfed ideally long enough. So I’m really passionate about getting that information out there.
Evan Brand: Me too. Me too. Well, we’ll send people back to your website. They can type in, Justinhealth.com to check out Justin and schedule consult with him. We deal with this stuff all the time, every single week, in the clinic. And my website notjustpaleo.com or just google our names: Justin Marchegiani Marchegiani Evan Brand. You’ll find us and make sure you subscribe here on the YouTube channel. Justin have over 25,000 subscribers on YouTube. Congrats. Whoo—
That’s uh—make sure we push that closer to a hundred grand because this is important information that is not readily available. Even in 2017, somebody’s gonna go down the street to the clinic, and maybe regret the mode of action that was taken. So we want to save you from that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Any other questions you wanna answer in the queue there, Evan? I don’t think so. Was there any for you?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm—again, someone said- Sam asked about Probiotics for a 7 year-old. Well, I’d probably still go with the Infantis. But you know, you’re gonna go, you’re gonna have a blend of Lactobacillus, Bifidobacterium Infantis in there . So you’re probably good with that one. I recommended it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And I would say for a 7-year old, too. Believe it or not, I had a three-year-old girl but I just had her stool test back and she had 2 parasites and Candida and bacterial overgrowth. So, I mean, if the seven-year-old has got symptoms go ahead and get a—get a GI Map stool test on her I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s had antibiotics her seven years of life. She might have some type of overgrowth already. And you just don’t wanna come in and just try to fix it with a probiotic. A lot of times, that won’t be enough. You can’t just out probiotic your way out of an infection, unfortunately.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And the easiest way to get kids to eat healthy. And again, this may, you know, sound kind of patronizing, right? But it—it’s a 100% true. Number one, don’t have crap in the house. Clean out all the crap in the house. Number two, you have family meals together and you will role model what good eating looks like. Mom and dad, they sit down to have their meal and they role model what it looks like. And the whole idea, you know, once the kid’s eating solid food, and they actually have teeth and they can chew and stuff, the whole idea behind baby food versus kids food, once they—once the mastication’s dialed in is ridiculous, right? They should be eating adult food and just, you know, cut it up small and make it really easy to digest. But those foods need to be done as well and you just role model it to the kids. You just parrot it back and the kids want to be like the mom and the dad. And they’re gonna wanna just do what the parents are doing. So you role model it and you create a really good environment and family meals.
Evan Brand: So we’re in those something funny uh—and we’re getting off topic but it’s Friday so we’re having fun. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It all connects back to that because if you don’ get to diet, right? Then you’re gonna have sinus infections and ear infections all day long.
Evan Brand: A 100%. So it is on topic. Yeah, for sure. So my wife and I, we were discussing last night, “When do you make the transition from baby foods over to solid food?” You know, from pureed foods to real foods. And well, she said, “They tell you.” And our daughter, she’s starting to fuss about the pureed foods. And she’s trying to grab of mom’s plates. So like last night, for example, we some steam broccoli, we had some peas and carrots that we did for lunch, with our veggies and we did some meats. And we gave her her own little plate of peas with some butter on there and some carrots, and some broccoli. And she ate it up—insane. And she’s 10 month old, I thought, “Oh, my lord, look at her appetite. She’s probably starving to death waiting for real food.” She’s like, “I’m sick of this pureed crap. Give me some real food.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Plus the teeth are coming in. So it’s a natural progression, right?
Evan Brand: At six months, you may start to add in some smooshed peas, some smooshed avocados, 95% of it doesn’t get in the mouth. It’s more of that tactile play experience. But eventually it gets in there and the teeth come out. And then you can start introduce it. And you’re doing a great job with how you’re doing it. Keeping it mashed, keep it simple, staying away from the hyper-allergenic food. That’s great.
Evan Brand: Yup, yup. So we have uh—we gave her a little bit of chicken yesterday, too, which she did fine with. It was very plain, not much seasoning on it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: Just some—some baked—pieces of some baked uh chicken thighs and she loved it. She ate it up. So it’s a lot of fun—a lot of fun—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it.
Evan Brand: to eat healthy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. And well, it’s great little Friday, here in Austin. I’ll be uh—doing a little waterskiing this weekend.
Evan Brand: Nice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Really excited about that. Any plans for you? Well, uh—we’re gonna go scope out—scope out some eco-friendly uh—paint and flooring options. And figure out what we can do about—about this house, so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it, man. Excited about it. Keep me posted.
Evan Brand: Sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And everyone listening, we appreciate your attendance. If you like these live ones, these live podcast, give us feedback. Let us know; like it; share it; give us a five-star review on iTunes as well. We’ll put—we’ll repost them on iTunes. If you listening on iTunes right now and you wanna see Evan and I go back and forth, duking it out in the flesh, click the link below so you can watch the uh—YouTube link. And uh—we’re excited to continue to do more of these and share more information.
Evan Brand: Take care. Have a great weekend.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, my man, take care, buddy. Bye.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Immune System, Tapping Technique and GI infections – Podcast Live with Dr. J and Evan | Podcast #131
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a lively and informative discussion about their recent clinical successes with their patients using the functional medicine approach. Listen to them as they dig into the root cause of their patients’ issues and turn chronic and seemingly complicated problems into success stories.
Know about the tapping technique which involves turning something negative into a better, positive thought. Learn more about GI infections, the bacteria or parasite that may be involved, as well as the tests and treatment options that are proven successful in the functional medicine world.
In this episode, we cover:
03:50 Immune System, bacteria, and infection relationship
15:50 Tapping Technique
19:17 Treating Hypochloridia
24:10 GI infections
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live on YouTube here. Podcast live on demand. Also, live here on Facebook. Evan, how are you doing, man?
And again, Facebook people you gotta click on the link here uhm—I’ll put in the comments to see Evan’s pretty face and go back and forth on this. How we doing, man?
Evan Brand: What’s going on? I’m feeling really good today. We’ve got a blue skies, the trees are blooming which they probably—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome.
Evan Brand: a year ago in Austin. So I’m enjoying myself.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. So we got podcast on demand. So anyone wants to write in some suggestions as we chit chat here, we’ll figure out what exactly we want to talk about moving forward.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And I might as well post a link over here to my Twitter page and see if uh—people are paying attention over there. That way, if they’ve got questions, they can get them answered here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Totally makes sense. Same thing, anyone on Facebook, too, every chimes in first we can get this thing moving. But let’s uh—just talk about some clinical successes in the last week with patients. Any updates from you, man?
Evan Brand: Yes. So interesting update is uh—there’s a female client that comes to mind and she had seven, I believe, I have to go back at here stool test and count. But I believe it was seven infections and this is a combination of two parasites which—let me just pull it up, that way, I’m not just shooting into the dark here, but—Uhm— with these infections, we started a gut protocol and symptom improvement was seen. She was having a lot of irritable bowel symptoms uhm— running to the bathroom. So she showed up with H. pylori, Blastocystis Hominis, Entamoeba and Fragilis and Proteas and Citrobacter. Somehow, cal protectin level was still low which is intestinal inflammation where—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: –I look at but I was surprised. And so anyhow, we put her on this protocol. And this is like 8 weeks. And the H. pylori while it’s still positive, instead of two viral factors, now she’s got one viral factor. The level of H.Pylori has dropped. The Citrobacter is completely gone. The Proteus completely gone. The Blasto is completely gone. But we still got Entamoeba. So there’s still the parasite and there is still the H. pylori there. So we’ve got work to do but yet, we’ve seen 3 or 4 things disappearing. So I think what the takeaway message is from me is that the bodies gonna heal in an interesting way. It may not heal everything at the same time. Some things may be easier to kill. Some things may disappear first, but you gotta heal yourself especially your gut, your microbiome. You gotta heal these things in layers. And that’s what we’re seeing here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So typically with a lot of patients that have chronic issues is there are some underlying stress, right? Emotional, physical, chemical stress but even deeper above and beyond that, there is some level – there’s some level of infection that’s deeper that creating inflammation even though it didn’t show via calprotectin or it’s just creating leaky gut. And the whole leaky gut mechanism is getting the immune system fired up. The more the immune system is fired up, it’s just an energy suck for your body. It’s like uhm—let’s say guests in you guest bathroom that you never go into your house. And they just leave the water on. Just a little bit—little drip, drip, drip. And then you get your water bill at the end of the month, and you’re like, “Where the heck did that bill come from?” And you’re like, “Oh, yeah. The faucet’s on.” But it’s like that with your energy resources. When got these bugs, it really—when the immune system is overactive. And even just a leaky gut, right? The more your immune system is overactive, the more it’s gonna suck your energy dry. That’s why when you get sick, the first symptom you get when you get sick is what? You get a lot of fatigue and malaise coz the immune system is sucking resources. Go ahead—
Evan Brand: I wanna hear uh—a recent case from you, but first I wanna ask you the question that I get asked all the time. And the answer really doesn’t matter because we need to fix the root cause no matter what. But people often ask well– chicken or egg? Was it that ma—my immune system got taxed first? And then I picked up these bacterial pathogens or these parasites? Or did I pick up the parasite and the bacterial pathogens and then that that set my immune system? What’s your take? Can it go either way?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So typically it’s one of two scenarios, right? Typically someone gets exposed to a very high amount of infectious debris, right? Parasitic—parasites. So you drink some really bad water, you to go Mexico, you have really bad meal or at a foreign country, you get the Bali belly, so to speak. And then you’re overwhelmed with all of that infectious debris and then there’s so much of it that it compromises your immune system, you get diarrhea, you have a lot of gut inflammation that creates malabsorption. That malabsorption puts stress on all of your glandular systems and then you spiral downhill. That’s scenario number one. So just the infectious—the infection was so overwhelming, it just threw everything else downhill. Scenario number two is there some type of immune compromisation that’s happening. Meaning adrenal stress, poor diet, poor sleep, or poor diet and lifestyle habits, low nutrient density. The immune system’s kinda a little bit weaker underneath the surface then you get exposed to some of these infectious debris at smaller micro levels that are in the food. And eventually makes its way to the system and creates inflammation.
Evan Brand: So yeah—so let me—let me clarify there. If we’ve—If we’ve got diet, lifestyle mostly dialed in, but let’s say people are cheating with gluten, for example. They still got intestinal permeability going on. You can still have good class, good sleep, blah, blah, blah. But if you’ve got just a simple thing like leaky gut, for example, you could potentially be more susceptible to pick up these infections regardless of whatever else is dialed in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean—here’s the deal with leaky gut, too. If you’re creating leaky gut, and then there’s some research, you know, on the non-celiac, gluten sensitivity side of the fence, that looks at these foods. Even if you’re not like reacting to a it, like symptomatically, and even if you’re not like having like IBS -like symptoms, bloating, you know, gas constipation, diarrhea, that gluten can still create leaky gut. Where the undigested food particles in the gut can make their way into the bloodstream and create stress. And then the LPS that comes in there along with that, that’s the— the bacterial debris can get into bloodstream and create a lot of mood issues as well. So you can still have leaky gut and not risk from gluten— and still not respond to gluten in general.
Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. I just posted a post on uh—Facebook which I think might be a slightly controversial which was I wrote this little bit of a letter and I put kind of like these five things that have happened over the last year or so where people have said, “Evan, I’ve ditched psychiatrist or I’ve ditched my psychologist or my marriage counselor, or my conventional doctor because of functional medicine.” I kinda wrote the reasons why of how if you lower inflammation, you may need less adjustments at the chiropractor, for example. If you heal the gut, you start producing your neurotransmitters optimally, you might not you’re your antidepressants anymore, so you might not need your psychiatrist. Or if you heal your adrenals, you’re not gonna snap at your children anymore, so therefore you’re not gonna need the marriage counselor that is telling you need to stop yelling at your kids. And how basically how functional medicine can literally, not intentionally, but it’s just a side effect is that we can replace these other industries. I’m not saying these other industries are bad for mental health care or anything like that. But a lot of times, this is not root cause medicine. And my wife and I went out you with a friend of ours yesterday and she said she had a lot of stress, she had to put her dog down and she called up her psychiatrist and said, “Hey I need help, I’m freaking out.” What does he do? He prescribed her 60 Xanax and says, “Here’s your Xanax bars and take these.” And I told her, I said, “Listen, your anxiety and your stress from this issue is not a Xanax deficiency.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: How about we do some emotional freedom technique. We start tapping. How about we cleanup the diet? And then before we left, out the parking lot, I had her do the quick coherence technique, the Heartmath, like the heart focus breathing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And focusing on someone that she loved and we got done with it, and she said, “That was weird.” I said, “What happened?” And she said, “I got tingly and warm.” I said, “Oh, it worked.” And she said, “What happened?” I said, “Well, you just took yourself out of fight or flight that you’re probably stocked in which is causing you to be dependent on Xanax and now we’ve pushed you into that parasympathetic rest and digest mode.” And she feels better. And this is what this is all about. Uh—a little bit of uh—off-subject uh—, but I just wanted to mention to people, check on my Facebook post and you’ll read about what I’m saying. I’m not saying these other uh— practitioners out there are garbage. What I am saying is that if you’re not getting a practitioner to focus on root cause, even if they are psychiatrist, if they’re not a root cause psychiatrist, then what the hell are they doing?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about resources, right? And in functional medicine world, we’re trying to help enhance your resources. So just like someone with more money in their bank account can buy more things, well if we enhance our mental, emotional bank account via healthy and diet and lifestyle functional medicine principles, we have more resources to deal with stress in our life. Whether it’s family, friends, being a parent, being present for our partner, just being able to do the hobbies of a hobbit—hobbits—uh—
Evan Brand: Haha
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The hobbies and the habits that we have going on in our life. I got uh—I guess I’m missing my uh – Lord of the Rings movies there. Yeah. So—It ‘s all about resources, right? So we have to make sure that we have enough resources in our system so we can allocate them toward these stressors. And I always tell my patients, “Have you ever tried dealing with stress on 0 night sleep? or “Try doing your taxes the next day when you’re getting like three hours of sleep?” You’re just not gonna be able to handle it. You don’t have the resources. So everything we’re trying to do is let’s test the resources of our body systems, let’s look where the hormone’s at, let’s look at where the gut resources are at, let’s look at detox and nutrient resources are at, let’s support them and let’s work on fixing them.
Evan Brand: Well, the analogy I like to use is we’re just using a big spotlight. Because a lot of different industries and health care, what they do is they use like a little laser pointer or like one of those tiny little keychain flashlight. And they shine something real dimly into one corner. And you’re like, “Oh, Justin looks like we found something. We found some anxiety issues, here’s the Xanax.” But instead, we come in with a giant spotlight and we’re like, “Whoa, look at the left corner of this microbiome. We got parasitic and bacterial infections, which can steal your nutrients, can mess up your blood sugar and cause anxiety. Look over here, we’ve got some adrenal issues. You got spiking of cortisol that’s gonna need to be addressed.” And then we shine the spotlight over here, “Oh, take a look at our detox pathways on the organic acids, you’ve got trouble over here.” And “Oopp, we shine the spotlight behind us, here’s mitochondrial issues. This is why you’re so fatigued.” And that’s the—I think that’s the greatest analogy. It’s a little laser pointer or a little small keychain flashlight, which is just pinpointing one industry of psychiatry or psychology or whatever versus exploring everything. Which is why for you and I, it’s tough for us to become the blank guy. You know people out there, “the thyroid guy” “ the detox chick” “ the bone broth chick” You know what I mean? It’s really gonna be tough for you and I to just say we’re the blank person because I don’t want to limit myself. I wanna let everyone know it is all encompassing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And if rest and niche yourself down, I think it’s a bad thing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Like from a marketing standpoint, right? Marketing is just telling the truth attractively. You know it’s good to have the niche because you wanna reach the people that have special conditions. Because if like, my specialty is thyroid. Number one, I have—I have or had a thyroid issue. It’s under control. Autoimmune thyroid issue. So I’m more passionate about that issue. But again, to treat a thyroid issue, you have to be able to treat all of the systems. So it’s kind of a mythology, like you don’t just ever treat thyroid, you treat the whole thing. But you may mark and put information out there that’s gonna resonate and speak to someone with a thyroid issue more. But again, the underlying issue is from education and clinical standpoint. We’re addressing the key underlying surface issues and the deep root issues as well. So we’re never ignoring it. We may speak to someone uhm—more specifically and get into the more nuances of that condition, but it all comes back down to the foundational stuff that we always talk about.
Evan Brand: Right. I would say my specialties would be— it’s become parasites really. I mean, I’m seeing so many each week and it’s just so fun. I guess because I had parasites.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You had a parasite, you.
Evan Brand: Uh—Yeah. And also depression, I mean because depression is what got me into this whole thing. IBS and depression in college, I mean, like I told you before, I had to figure out when I went into a college class, where’s the bathroom. Coz I have to get out in the middle of the class to run to the bathroom.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And so for me, depression, IBS, parasites, you know, those are all linked together—the whole gut-brain connection. And I really am empathetic for people that have struggled with that because it’s so common and if you diagnosed with IBS, that’s a pretty generic diagnosis. And unless you’re with functional medicine practitioners, you’re gonna get an acid blocker, an antispasmodic—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely.
Evan Brand: — or some other drug and—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well actually, you were diagnosed with IBS, right?
Evan Brand: I was.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you use the antispasmodic, you used the medications that helps with the gastroparesis. You know—
Evan Brand: Well, they never –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They even do that—
Evan Brand: Well they never got to use it. They try. They wrote me the prescription pad but I denied all three of the drugs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the thing is, too, we can also use natural medicines for a lot of those things. That may not fix the root cause, right? There’s root cause medicine and there is using natural medicine in a way that’s gonna help alleviate the symptoms that’s gonna up regulate physiology so things work better. But we have to still be investigating and digging to the root cause, right? So we’re dealing with someone with gastroparesis or low motility, we may add in things like ginger. We may add in things like carnitine. We may add, you know, higher amounts of mag citrate to keep that uhm—migrating motor complex moving. But we are still digging in deep. We’re still making the diet, the lifestyle. We’re still enhancing digestive nutrients, uh—hydrochloric acid enzymes. And then we’re digging deep for the infections. And we’re trying to lock in those diet and lifestyle habits, right? The supplements are great because they can give us that symptomatic relief while we continue to dig over here to the root cause. So as long as you have, you know, that four pace envision that addresses some of the symptoms without the side effects, you know of some of the drugs, which may have more side effects than what you’re treating, and then working on the functional medicine plan, I think we’re in a really good place.
Evan Brand: I agree. Yeah. I actually got a good—good success with that IB Synergy product from designs which get Bonigut in there. It’s got the 5-HTP. I had a guy with just super bad IBS and I said, “Man” I mean he was critically, critically stricken with both diarrhea and constipation just alternating every other day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So I have him going with that 5-HTP Bonigut blend. And he got better. Now we start to wait for lab results but yeah—I mean sometimes we will do some of the quick fix of band-aid situations to fix things, but we still got to work backwards. I guess to answer these questions uh—should we answer the question about the cancer question here or shall we just make a whole show on the future?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’ll do a whole show on that. I’ll get some experts on. I got Dr. David Jocker is coming next month as well. He was in the truth about cancer series. And we’ll go on ketogenic diets and we’ll talk more about therapeutic ways to address cancer outside of just the natural chemotherapy. So we’ll hold that one that—we need more time for that.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Agreed. Uh—Samuel asked, “What is the tapping technique? Can you show us? Well since most of our audiences are gonna be audio listeners we’re not gonna take up the air time to show you the technique, but the best resources—EFT (Evan-Frank-Tom) EFT.mercola.com and you can just view the different acupressure meridians that you’re gonna tap. But then also, you’re gonna learn about the affirmations that you can use for emotional freedom technique and that’s something Justin and I use all the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s helpful. I’m—I’m gonna just give it 15 seconds of airtime here, so—just—I do two hands coz it’s adding it’s more efficient. But you just tap the inners part of the eyebrow, the outer parts of the eyebrow, under the eyes, I do under the nose, and the bottom part of the chin the same time. And then I do both collarbones. So I do this, and you can go top of the head and tap midline. So I do two hands coz I just feel like you get more stimulation. So I go here, and I’m just thinking about whatever is pissing me off, my wife, I just think about it.
Evan Brand: Haha
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I kinda give it a number. So if I’m a t like 6/10 regarding irritation, I just think about it. Whatever that issue is, whether it’s like, you know, the person driving in front of me is so slow or whatever. And I try to knock that 6 out of 10 so that 10 is the worst. 6 is like 60% to being at the worst. I try to knock it down to a4 to a 3. And so every round—every 2 rounds or so, you kinda just check back in and see if you knock it down. And you go as you kinda knock everything down to a 3.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And we have—I—I start at the top of the crown which I usually like—many ways—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You can do that. You can start there, you can end there.
Evan Brand: Now do you do the sides? I know Mercola, he’s big on the side of rib cage under the armpit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I do that, too, sometimes. It’s just wasn’t good for a video.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So you criss cross?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I do two at the same time just coz it’s stimulation.
Evan Brand: No. I mean you criss cross your arms so the underarm’s like this. I do like a monkey.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha
Evan Brand: And then—and then finish with the wrist. I typically finished by tapping the insides of the wrist together then doing the affirmations. So even though I’m angry, or even though I’m anxious, I deeply love and accept myself. But you gotta say the affirmation verbally. I tell people if you can, if you’re just embarrassed, then don’t do it. But why be embarrassed? Nobody—nobody is paying that much attention to you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That depends, too. Like you can do this stuff, and you can kinda say like if you’re at—let’s say, if you’re lying in bed and you’re just really stewing on something and your wife’s next to you and you don’t wanna wake her up, then you can just kinda think it in your head. And then you can just, you know, do the affirmations, tap like this. And then you can tap here, and think about the issues.
I like them to end, though, with a positive thing. So you can end with something positive. So then I just go into like, “What is it that I want to manifest?” So I’m going into right there. I’m thinking about whatever I’m gonna try to create or produce in my life, I just tap it while I’m thinking about it. And the whole idea of tapping is you’re just stimulating various meridian systems that have been mapped out via acupuncture system for thousands of years. And really what it’s doing is it’s neutralizing the negative response that’s stored in the limbic system or in that subconscious of your—more in the psychological side of it. And you’re trying to kinda rewire it so you can get a good pattern there instead. So then, naturally that reflux is to go back to the better thing and not to the negative thing.
Evan Brand: So if you do affirmation about the bad part, would you do like an affirmation about the bad part and an affirmation for a positive?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. So I start off with the negative and just try to lessen—lessen it first.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Coz if you’re—feeling negative, it’s really hard to be positive when you’re negative so I try to decrease the negative to about a three. And then I go into the positive because then, you are in a better place to deal with the positive, right? It’s kinda like when someone tells you to relax and you’re pissed off, like relax, calm down. You just wanna punch him, right? Like, “No, I’m too wound up, come on.”
So I wanna get that dialed in and then now I’m relaxed, now I can rewire it and create some positive things.
Evan Brand: I like it. I like it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So calm down first, and then work on manifestation.
Evan Brand: Should we answer a couple of more questions here?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Let’s hit it, man. Let’s hit it.
Evan Brand: Solam asked, “How long does it take to heal hypochloridia?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It totally depends, right? If you have emotional stressors that are unresolved ore you’re eating foods that are incredibly inflammatory, maybe never. But if you’re making the root causal changes and your managing your stress, and you’re fixing the underlying gut stuff, I would say within 3 to 6 months, you have a really good chance of not needing hydrochloric acid to digest your food. But again, everyone is different. A longer—the longer the issues been going on, the more severe the infections, and the more infections that are layered in there, I’d say longer, up to a year, at least.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ll just have my two cents to that, too. If you had a previous history of a prescription, as a blocker’s proton pump inher—inhibitors are now it’s open to counter like the Xanax or the Toms, or anything like that, or—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: Or if you’ve had H. pylori which we’ve chatted about many times, then I would say it may lengthen that time, too, to fix that stomach acid issue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The longer that gut’s has been worn down, the more the immune system is revved up like you get patients are just supersensitive to every little thing. Like I can’t even put in an enzyme, I can’t even put in our apple cider vinegar or lemon juice or the smallest fermented food sets them off. It’s really hard and you’re looking at a couple of years to really dive into it because the immune system is so revved up and it’s so ready to attack the smallest invader that it’s so hard to put things into help and heal it because it’s looking at everything as a foe not a friend.
Evan Brand: Right. We really, really have the baby step in those cases so that’s why—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yeah. I mean, just like you heal, with you know, food is medicine there, you go really slow and you do lots of things in broth form, in soup form so it’s – so it is so palatable. There is very little digestion that has to happen. And typically one supplement at a time and one nutrient at a time, titrate up from low to high. Even if it’s something that they can handle, if they go high dose, off the bat, their immune system just freaks out.
Evan Brand: Well I wanna hit on something you just mentioned which is if we’re talking 1 to 2 years, it takes extreme patient—extreme patience for patients and clinicians because for us, that is a very intensive case for us to take on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: And you know, maybe this is to toot our own horns, maybe it’s just calling out the obvious that we do take the time, you know, with people we’re working with. Sometimes it maybe 30-45 even an hour-long call for a follow-up just to take these baby steps. Whereas, let’s jus say some of the clinicians that we’ve seen out there, it’s too cookie-cutter approach and they don’t have the mental bandwidth or capacity for empathy to baby step this people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So it’s here’s your cookie-cutter protocol, good luck.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Where with us, we’ve really, really, really gonna get super details.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And so this is why if you go and you buy like a leaky gut online program or some other type of program, and you get limited results and you get to us, we’re not gonna be surprised if you suffered through that, and you didn’t get a good result. Because at the end of the day, that’s why Justin and I haven’t created online courses at this point because it’s—it’s hard for us to sleep at night thinking that we’ve created a program that’s too cookie-cutter. We’ve really got to figure out a way that we’re gonna be able to work in all the minutiae and the small details and the variations—variation A, B and C, D for different people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So if someone uh—packages something up all beautiful and says, “Oh, it’s $297 and all your problems are gonna be healed.” Uh—please be a little bit skeptical of that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. And I’ve talked to you about a patient that I had today that email in that was dropping out of care. And we try to always set realistic expectations. This person just had her labs reviewed a month or two ago, and had multiple parasitic infections, severe adrenal dysfunction, HPA axis dysfunction, and then a lot of issues on her organic tests. Uh— detoxification issues, mitochondrial issues, and we just started with simple adrenal support, made diet and lifestyle changes and she had some— some side-effects so we try to cut things down, go slower. And we’re gonna kinda reconvene and work on supporting detoxification, but person had dropped out. Now, the problem is, to have expectations that things will work off the bat when so many things are wrong like that, expectations are incorrect. So a lot of people they have preconceived notions even if you spell it out to them and you let them know, “Here’s where we’re at now, here’s where we’re going.” They forget because they—they want it done now. And they think because things didn’t work in that initial uhm—in that initial experience, that there is no way to fix it. So continuing to harp on patients in managing their expectations, even though they have a lot of stuff they’re projecting from past failures, we kinda have to get through it. Make sure expectations are real and that make sure they know, “Hey, here’s where we’re going now. Here’s where we’re going next.” These things ahead that may have to be dealt with for us to really see great changes.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. We got another question here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s hit ‘em.
Evan Brand: Let’s hit Steve’s question. After all GI infections are eradicated, how long does it take the gut to fully heal? All my infections are gone, but I’m still dealing with IBS, leaky gut and issues after H. pylori.” I’m gonna hit on this first Dr. Justin Marchegiani, if you don’t mind.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. I know you’re gonna say it, by the way.
Evan Brand: Okay. So – haha if—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you say it—If you say it, I’ll—I’ll tell you that.
Evan Brand: Okay. Alright. Please. Alright. So here’s what I’m gonna say. You say all your infections are gone, but you’re still dealing with IBS, leaky gut, and issues, I would like to know what test was this that says all your infections are gone because I bet all of your infections are not gone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes! Whoo! I knew it. Yeah. You’re totally right.
Evan Brand: Haha
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You’re totally right. And then also, just making sure that you have the digestive nutrients on board to help heal the gut lining and the digestive support to break down the food and then I would make the food more—more palatable right now. I’d be looking more at the GAPS or an SCD or more of a soup or broth approach that makes the food really easy to take in. No raw veggies, uhm—try to keep it really palatable so the body can access it without much stress.
Evan Brand: Alright. So the beauty of the Internet, Stevie says—Stevie replied and he says, “DRG” Well, uhm— Justin–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s missing a lot of them. It’s missing a lot. You gotta do the DRG with the GI map. I a—I never do the DRG by itself for the most part—always both. You gotta do both.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if there’s still an issue with the DRG and the GI MAP, I want them go for the 41 side-by-side.
Evan Brand: Yup. Agreed. So, Stevie, not that—you know, we’re not diagnosing you. That’s not what these calls are for. But, hey, Justin and I have seen a lot of false negatives with DRG and some other test out there. So potentially some stuff going on. And I would like to add a couple of points about like the—the issues, the leaky gut type stuff. You know, make sure you are doing some of the easy supports, too. You know, chamomile is great. You can do chamomile in a supplemental form. You’ve got chamomile teas, uhm—you’ve got L- glutamine. So there are some leaky gut supplements that why your til—still trying to figure stuff out, you can still be taking support of nutrients in the meantime while waiting for retest.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Totally. Let’s hit the uh—last question there by—E Center Riley. See here, just diagnosed with Hashimoto’s, TPO and TGB bodies, 465 is that high? Eliminated the foods, gluten, dairy, soy, balance in blood sugar, hard with 5 kids. What should I focus on next? So 465 is definitely high. The LabCorp reference range for TPO is 34. Anything 34 above is considered positive—I think it’s above 34. 34 below is considered positive. And anything about 20, for me, I considered to be subclinical. So that is high. Anything above or around 500 is definitely high. I’ve seen patients at 2000, though. I’ve seen patients that go from 2000 to below a 100. Now, my goal is to get people—If I were you, I’d like to see a 70 to 80% reduction in that. Again, maybe you were higher before you made those changes. So I’m not sure if it was gluten, dairy, soy. That stuff was cut out and then you saw the drop. But either way, uhm—getting enough selenium in there, 400 micrograms of selenium, addressing the underlying infections, things like H. pylori, Blasto and Yersinia can be coming to increase the antibodies. And then making sure the adrenals are looked at. There’s a strong adrenal-thyroid connection and a lot of people who have thyroid issues also have adrenal issues. And remember, TPO is a microsomal or essentially it’s uh—intracellular microsomal antibody that helps bind the thyroid hormone together. So if you’re making antibodies to that, it’s gonna prevent that thyroid hormone that I—Iodination process from occurring. So making sure we have the adrenal support there because the adrenals help produce cortisol. Cortisol is an anti-inflammatory that’s gonna help with the inflammation. And with the TPO there uhm—you could potentially have increase in hydrogen peroxide, especially if there’s small amounts of iodine getting in there. So get them the selenium will help neutralize that hydrogen peroxide into H20. High quality H20 which is uh—not gonna be as inflammatory.
Evan Brand: Well said. Yeah. And so uhm—Isabella Wentz, I just did podcast with her a couple of weeks ago. Actually that was my last uploaded episode. And uhm—we’re talking about bacterial infections, too. So you mentioned some of the parasites and she’s seen the same thing the parasite but also the bacteria. The Klebsiella, the Citrobacter, and all these autoimmune triggers has been bad guys for uh—these Hashimoto’s situations and these antibodies, so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, look for the bacteria, too, and you can definitely fix this stuff and you can make significant progress.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I mean one person here, wildlab access, “How do you test for various enzymes?”Number one, if you have gut stress, you probably have low hydrochloric acid. And if you have low hydrochloric acid, you probably have low enzymes. Why? Because hydrochloric acid is important for acts of—for converting pepsinogen to pepsin which is the proteolytic enzyme. Hydrochloric acid lowers the acidity of the chyme, which is the mixed up food in the intestine. That inten—that food that chyme that goes into the small intestine which the acidity then triggers the pancreas to make bicarbonate, it also triggers CCK that then caused that the gallbladder to produce bile that also stimulates the pancreas to make light based trypsin and chymotrypsin and all the enzymes that come down. So if you have enzyme issues, you also have hydrochloric acid issues, but we can also assess it by looking at enzyme markers, like elastase, too, which will uhm—look at that in the DRG or the GI MAP test.
Evan Brand: You better get that frog out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Frog out. It just attacked me, man. I’m like, Ugh—
Evan Brand: Alright.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: My water—so uh—yeah. Elastase, I think it’s elastase 1 is the enzyme marker we typically look at for uhm— low enzymes. But typically, just assuming that we have digestive stress, let’s assume it for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean that’s the same—the same answer that I would say for the leaky gut. I had people say, “Oh, can you test me for leaky gut?” It’s like, “Yeah. We can go to Cyrex and spend 500 bucks if you want to, but based on your symptoms, I guarantee there’s intestinal permeability. You’ve got XYZ. And we can—we don’t need to spend the 500 bucks on that test. Save your money for the organic acids, your comprehensive stool panels, the GPL-TOX, maybe heavy metal testing. Save your money for that stuff that you can’t really guess on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. I agree, man. Well, anything else you wanna hit off the bat here? I mean I think—I had some really good successes last week, too, with some patients that had chronic pain, chronic mood, chronic energy, hair loss. And I mean—just really simple things. We—we fix their hormones, this person has autoimmune thyroid, uhm—hypothyroid as well. T3 was super low, it was uh– T4 to T3 conversion issue, dysregulated cortisol. They had a lot of malabsorption and they had a couple of infections and we just—we just took them down the map. An then just everything first time around, uhm—just knocked in place. I mean it’s like you swing the bat once and it’s connected. It’s gone. Those were the patients where its like, “It’s just so rewarding coz it’s just—it’s easy” And then you have some patients where it’s a lot more trial and error and digging in. So it’s nice to have those home runs every now and then.
Evan Brand: Oh, man. I—so I had a home run earlier with this guy that I got off the phone with name Dion. And he was on an inhaler. An asthma inhaler.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And also I believe he was taking uh—allergy medication, like a prescription allergy medication.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Maybe it was one or the other. He alternated or he was on the inhaler something. But he was on prescriptions for allergies. And all we did is we cleaned up the diet, we’ve addressed some gut infections. He had candida and I believe a couple bacterial infections. I don’t believe he had parasites. I have to look back. But I remember a couple of infections, fix the gut, uh—supported adrenal’s basic adrenal support, some adaptogens. And I talked with him today and he said, “Evan, I’ve not used my medication in the last six weeks. And everything is blooming here right now. All the trees and plants and everything are blooming and normally, I’m debilitated. He said, “I’m completely fine.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Isn’t that awesome?
Evan Brand: How in the world just by working on the gut and adrenals am I not allergic to the environment anymore? It’s just like, “Oh, it makes me feel so good.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see that all the time, too. And hydrochloric acid is one of those things that’s really great with allergies, too. You notice that?
Evan Brand: Ain’t that weird? I mean since digestive enzymes, I told him, I said, “Man, we’ve gotta keep up digestive enzymes.” And then actually I am gonna send him a bottle of some of the like natural herbal anti-histamines, just in case. Because he started sneezing on the phone. I’m like, “Whoa, maybe you’re not all the way out of the water yet. Have this on hand, in case you need it.” So the coresatin in, the rutin, some of those–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hesperetin
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The things I love for allergies: number one, just really get a good air filter. I used one by Advanced Air. You can see that at justinhealth.com/shop Look at the approved products. I like it. It’s good. Uhm—and then your natural anti-histamine degranulating compounds. In my product, Aller Clear. Stinging Nettle, coresatin, and then you’re gonna have like some vitamin C in that, some potassium bicarb as well. So those are really good. And you can go up to eat. The nice thing about it, just not gonna be drowsy. So you can get that allergy support without getting the drowsiness and then really make sure the diet is anti-inflammatory. Up the hydrochloric acid because HDL is really important with low—with allergy. It’s gonna make a big difference.
Evan Brand: Yup, Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ginger. Ginger is phenomenal, too, for allergies. Really good.
Evan Brand: I love ginger. So it’s a great nutrient. I’d do teas, ginger kombucha, there’s so much you can do with ginger.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. By the way, right after this, I’ve got a new grill. So I’m gonna go out, I’m gonna grill some grass-fed hotdogs, right? And then I’ve got some sauerkraut with mustard. And I’ve got a nice ginger kombucha, I’m gonna open up. So I’m really excited for my lunch break today.
Evan Brand: Nice. What kind of grill? Is that one of those pellet jobs?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I actually—I got a new Webber just because it’s—it’s—my other one was 10 years old. And then the knobs are starting to go. So I got a nice, little Webber Spirit. So it’s great. It’s got three burners. Love it. And uhm—I got a smoker that I use sometimes for ribs on the weekend just like a 4-hour job. So it’s good to have a day or an afternoon to kinda be at home to enjoy that one but—Yeah. So love my grilling. Try not to get things charred. Try to keep the heterocyclic amines and the polyaromatic hydrocarbons to a minimum.
Evan Brand: Agreed. Agreed, man. Cool. Well I don’t have one on my end.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You wanna have a share?
Evan Brand: No.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hope you guys are liking these calls here. We wanna do more. We wanna connect with the listeners. Our purpose really is to serve and help people get their health back. If people want more feedback, or want more kinda like rolling up the sleeves and specifically diving into your case, go to notjustpaleo.com or justinhealth.com, click on the schedule buttons. And we are here to help you out. Evan, anything else, man?
Evan Brand: That’s it. Have a great day people, drink clean water, get rest, reduce stress, be grateful. It’s gonna go a long way.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And people on Facebook, I’m hoping we can get Evan on here soon. We gotta just figure that out. So hopefully, soon we’ll do that. So Evan, great chatting with you, man. We’ll talk soon.
Evan Brand: Take Care. Bye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.