Today’s interesting topic is all about breath, how healthy breathing is important, as well as breathing and mindset techniques and help accelerate health and performance. We have Josh Trent today, who is the founder of Wellness Force Media and host of Wellness Force Radio. 
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
2:02 Phases of Breath Work
9:04 Wim Hof
20:35 Mediation, Stress Management, etc.
24:43 Wellness Routine
36:13 Mental Health Awareness
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It's Dr. Justin Marchegiani here with Josh Trent in the house from California. Josh, how are we doing today man?
Josh Trent: Doing so good, man. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well, I've seen you online for a year. So it's a pleasure to connect with you over the interwebs.
Josh Trent: Excellent man.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let's dive in. We chatted about kind of in our pre interview that we really wanted to talk about breath today and how breath can be used to plug in, optimize and tweak our nervous system accelerate health and performance. First off, let what made you get so passionate about something as simple but phenomenal as breath.
Josh Trent: Yeah, because it was the only lever that I started to realize I could pull from my own anxiety. And I think many of us deal with anxiety. It's a myriad, right? There's a wide spectrum of things that make us feel uncomfortable. Typically, it's the stories we're telling ourselves. The greatest way to get out of story is to shift your state and I think one of the greatest ways if not the greatest way Justin is to shift our state by the breath. Because if we do that, then we can choose anything. And this is something that came to me probably in about 2017 where I had done Mark divine seal fit event, which is like this 14 hour overnight crucible. Where was that like with water and you do like Murph, which is 300, air squats, 100 pull ups, 200 push ups, you do it soaking wet. So I did all these things physically to find the crucible of Where does my mind go? Where does my psyche go when I'm under pain when I'm under duress? And so what I learned from that is the greatest thing that we all have is this shared adversity of life, you know, we are all suffering in some way. We are all dealing with some kind of hardship. And so I started to go to my breath training when I started to train for the 20 acts and I learned actually box breathing from Mark Devine at the unbeatable mind summit. So that was the the kind of beginning Justin was, oh, I can actually use my breath to calm myself down. I had no idea that breathwork gave me existed and there's a huge story behind that too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. Awesome. So when we breathe, I'm just curious to get your take on it. So a lot of people, they tend to be mouth breathers, which kind of creates the sympathetic nervous system response where breathing through the nose kind of activates that parasympathetics those olfactory nerves, which really help kind of that calming part of the nervous system. Is that something you agree with? And then do you focus on nasal breathing more versus mouth or nasal for inspiration for expiration, or all nasal? How does that work?
Josh Trent: That's a big question. So in my in my journeys with breath work, I believe there's three phases of breath work, and then the physiology aligns accordingly, right. So we have breathwork for daily meditation, right, whether it's rhythmic breathing, or circular breathing, but I do believe that if you look at the physiology of the nose, and I learned this from Dan Burleigh, he's a four decade breathwork practitioner. The nose has spiral helical designs that are meant to draw air in so from a scientific perspective, we are missing to breathe in, inhale through the nose, that activates the stress response. When we exhale, we have those parasympathetic receptors that allow our nervous system to relax. And of course, this is all through the vagal tone, right? So when we breathe in through our nose, when we breathe out through our mouth, especially Justin, if we're doing that full belly breathing, like a big curve right now, everybody, everybody's like, I'll do the belly breathing, but like, are you actually doing it? Most people breathe in and out through their chest only because they're chaotic. They're fully flexed. So long answer to your short question is, yeah, we breathe in through the nose. And when we breathe out through the mouth, that is what allows our nervous system to down regulate. Yes, there's other things like acute stress management, breath work and catharsis, breathing, but those involve more breathing through the mouth, because that's what's going to excite the nervous system. Kind of like if you do the alternate nostril breathing to go on a stage. So but for most people, the best way to breathe is going to be that deep belly breath, inhale through the nose, and then exhale through the mouth.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Yeah, when I deal with my patients, and we're available Waiting breathing, you know, one of the things I'll do is I'll put one hand on their chest, one hand in their tummy. And I haven't breathed. And essentially, we want the feel the bottom hand to move but not the top hand, kind of a similar evaluation that you're looking at?
Josh Trent: You know what I do, that's a great way to do it. I learned this from Paul check, I take a liter bottle of water, I fill it full, I lay them on the ground, or, or, or a bag of sand. And I just tell them to mentally focus on raising the bag or bottle and lowering the bag or bottle. So I'm actually training that somatic response and then when they're on their back, so that's how I think most people could start to learn how to belly breathe.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think anything that draws their awareness that this part of the area's moving versus this and then, of course, when you're when your chest breathing, you know, all these scalene muscles are coming in. So then you're kind of drawing more of a forward head posture, which then yeah, actually makes it harder to get that deep breath in, so then it creates more of a sympathetic response. So I think that's, I think that's really key.
Josh Trent: One thing about this to our entire culture, you know, case in part to these devices, right that we have doors so forward, flexed, driving computers cell phone even in conversations. Most people aren't in the current moment, they're leaning forward to anticipate the next moment. So they're not even in the current moment. They're just leaning forward. This contributes to our flexed hips, or lengthen glutes, or kyphosis. And then we start living life where gravity is defeating us. So I believe that we get to kind of lean back, take our time, enjoy where we actually are, instead of always anticipating being safe the next moment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I 100%. Agree. So when you're breathing, what does that look like for you? Like, is there a certain like, there's different things out there? Everyone knows Wim Hof, which is the different breathing. So people are focusing on inspiration. Sometimes there's a hold to increase co2, which is shown to improve basal dilation of the brain. Some have a longer exhale, what does your I mean, there's probably different ones that you like, but like right now, if you're focusing on the listeners here, it's the easiest thing they could grab, which one would you recommend and what does that look like?
Josh Trent: So in our breathe program that we have we started With just training someone to do what's called cyclical breath, and cyclical breath is where we have a charged inhale and a relaxed, soft exhale. Yes, there are similarities of Wim Hof. There's also similarities with Soma breath, or with breakfast prayer, or with or with even holotropic breathing. The majority of things when it revolves around breath is that we're not reinventing the wheel, there's only three phases of breathing, right? The inhale, the whole, the exhale, we're not going to like develop some new breathing pattern, because that's a whole pattern. So what I do is when I focus on people that are just starting their journey, and they've heard about breath work, or they're curious about breath work, or they're like, how do I use this for my well being, I start them with the cyclical, and that is a pull from a rich inhale, a relaxed exhale and no pause six of those in a row. If you look at the science, there's multiple studies, two of them recently on PubMed, that is what shifts our nervous system into less fight or flight and more rest and digest. So literally, I mean, that's The best place to start of course from there. In the program, we also focus on different patterns of breathing, you know whether it's being onstage or just being present with your family member, but honestly, man, six breaths is all we need.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So six breaths, meaning like a six seconds in like or six breaths in a row, like–
Josh Trent: Six total. So literally just– six times. So you notice how when I pull in, I'm actually taking control of my respiration. And this is, one thing I put an analogy I want to say is, when we breathe in, we're taking control. When we breathe out, we're letting go of trying to be in control. That's a big differentiation that I want to say about breathing is we never want to we're not trying to be in control both ways, like we can control the breath in, but when we try to control the breath out too much, we're actually defeating the purpose of being in that cyclical pattern.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, and so when you breathe in or breathe out, you're not focusing on any amount of time. It could be maybe two or three seconds in. It's just a ritual.
Josh Trent: Yeah, I mean, whatever and this goes to breathe respiration, muscles, whatever someone's intercostals or their diaphragm, or their posture can handle because for some people doing this might be really challenging, you know, so maybe they need to pull in a little softer, just depending on how much their inhalation muscles have been trained. So that's why I think honestly, the best way to teach breathing or to do breathing is not to get caught up in the weeds of details of seconds of hold and everything else. It's just clear, concise direction, like you'd tell a 10 year old like Hey, take a deep breath in with your mouth closed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Yeah, and then try to make sure that the the belly is really being activated.
Josh Trent: Yeah, exactly like you do with your patients, you know, queue them to cinematically feel and visualize what's going on. Otherwise, we are creatures of habit, right? We go to these patterns that don't always serve us, but our body's super efficient. I mean, you know this because, you know, on your show, the body is always trying to achieve homeostasis, no matter what, always right. But yeah, it's gonna do that with the path of least resistance and the least amount of energy expenditure. So it's up to us. to direct that body, so it's in alignment with what we actually want.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Well, there's things like Wim Hof that are out there. That's a big breathing style that people were talking about. What does that look like? Is this something that you incorporate yourself at all or people you work with? What is that?
Josh Trent: You know what I have you ever done any sessions on Wim Hof?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm hmm. I have.
Josh Trent: Did you have an experience where you felt an emotional release or catharsis in some way?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I actually used to do it a lot in in a float tank. Yeah, it's really interesting, because I had all the extra magnesium coming in, there was total sensory deprivation. So it was pretty euphoric. I think a lot of that euphoria is coming from the co2 that's being increased with and then you and then that co2 goes up and then you get this a little bit of adrenaline rush. And for me, it's interesting because I was in this magnesium, you know, drenched environment. So it was pretty euphoric for me, I really enjoyed it. What was your experience?
Josh Trent: My experience was that when I initially did Wim Hof, I thought that it gave me more energy than I never felt. So maybe it was something that was coming in through a different pathway energetically that I hadn't experienced. Or maybe it was the super oxygenation. I'm not really sure. A lot of times we get so caught up with understanding the science that we forget the biggest report card is how we feel. So my initial experience with Wim Hof was it was energizing and charging. It wasn't until I started to do longer, more cathartic sessions that involves more of Bruce Lipton's work where there was actual tissue palpitation, and movement and breathing or I was letting go of things that didn't serve me and honestly, in Costa Rica, I combined plant medicine, which is IO, Osca and breathwork, which was incredibly powerful. But I think to answer your question, like the Wim Hof is great. There's nothing wrong with it. Actually, there's everything right with it. It's just that a lot of times people are adverse to cold therapy. You know, because Wim specialization is breathing and cold, so everybody can jump into the cold if they're not ready for it if they haven't done any kind of training. raining like that. So I don't think his method is for everyone. But that's cool, because that's why we're here talking about all the methods.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, what I typically do is I'll do the breathing, I'll start off, I'll do a normal shower every morning and then I'll just over like two or three minute period, I'll just change the water down to cold. And then I'll do the breathing for like, one minute. And then that that alone just really jumpstart my day. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, that's a pretty good way to do that. No, you don't I'll still do some some butter coffee with sometimes Yeah, and collagen. But it's like, Man, I'm ready to go. So I like that. And it's a kind of the way of eating it down versus, you know, jumping in with two feet, so to speak.
Josh Trent: Yeah. And and you know, this is cool, because I think most people that are listening to your show, and that follow you, they understand that there's so many different tools and so many different ways of approaching this stress reduction nut, but you got to start somewhere. So whether you start with cold or breath or supplements or walking or meditation, I mean, gosh, you know, there's a huge spectrum of tools that can get us to reduce stress, but you know what, I really think Please interrupt me if I'm taking us off of a weird path here. But I think it's kind of cool because I like the weird. I think really what all these tools are doing is they're reminding us that we get to take better loving care of ourselves, treat our brothers and sisters on the planet with more love and care and treat the planet with more love and care. So all the reason we're stressed out, the reason we have this, psychosis as a society is because we've allowed the models that be that have, you know, been really from this old school way of thinking where we're going to extract as much resources from the planet as possible. And, you know, to hell with how we suffer and who cares about the long term effects of our children or their children. That's really while we're stressed, we're stressed because on an existential, very low, subtle energy level, we are all feeling this existential unrest. Where we're in a time right now, where we're under attack, our attention is currency, our health, our air, our environment, everything right now is either stacked against us or stacked for us depending on the intention of how we approach it. So I think there's a A lot of background stuff going on here, that really the stress reduction tools are pointing us to navigate towards this ethos of more love. And I'm not meaning like hippies around a fireplace. I mean, like, legitimately the act of love is what's healing to ourselves and to the planet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think that's really important. I mean, just you jump on an airplane, right? What what are the instructions? When cabin pressure gets lost, right? Put your mask on before you help. You're kidding. And it's part of the just the mindset, your body can only your body can only write a check for what's in your account. So the more you put love into our health, which health is just nothing more than energy and resources, the more energy and resources and or love you can give back. So yeah, it's important because a lot of people I think, you know, especially from 30 or 40 years ago, there was this sense of like, you develop self satisfaction by giving everything away that you have, and then you're depleted, and then you're resentful, where it should be a little bit more of the opposite. You focus on yourself inward first, then you can give out even more outward. So it's kind of a different transactional model.
Josh Trent: Yeah, and I don't know if you've talked about Lao Tzu or everyone's probably heard this phrase, you know, As above, so below. And that's the same thing like we literally figuratively, metaphorically like there is nothing I can give you, Justin, from a knowledge perspective, that I haven't been through myself that I have a body. It's so easy in our world to because there's so many people that are great researchers and great knowledge collectors. I have this concept that I explore in wellness force and its intelligence, you know, what is the true definition of physical and emotional intelligence? And I believe intelligence has zero to do with how smart you are. I think intelligence based on my almost 20 years in wellness is our ability to gather information like this amazing show. Our ability to apply the information, you know, try on the sweater, see if it matches, do the supplement protocol, go through the food elimination diet. And then lastly, what you and I and everyone are working on is embodiment. You know, it's the embodiment of these lessons where we've gathered we've applied now we're embodied now when I talk to john And when Justin talks to a patient, we don't have to say too much because people can feel from us that we've embodied the gathering in the application, it's actually been imprinted into our nervous system. So we admit that when we're with other people, we don't have to say much, because the energy is just there. It's something they can feel that's true intelligence. That's what we're really all kind of leading ourselves towards. And honestly, that's why people listen to podcasts. That's why people are here with us, because they're on that journey, just like we are.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And I think people see that their typical, the typical medical model, and the average medical doctor lives, 10 years less than the average patient. So we know there's some missing information that the medical doctor has and isn't given to you. There's just they're not educated fully. They understand a certain model of medicine, that that's really great for acute care and drugs and surgery in these things, but they're missing that. And I think like you said, you want to find people that embody what it is you want, because that means application, that means you're not just understanding it. You're talking applying it and embody it in your in your life in your house.
Josh Trent: Do I love this? Because I'm not trying to shame anyone? In no way am I saying that a health practitioner who doesn't have perfect visual representation of your health is in any way doing a bad job because there's no place in my explanation for shame. All I'm saying is that we're all on a spectrum of an evolution of embodying our lessons. And so if there is a health practitioner who's struggling with their own health issues, which is pretty freakin normal, you know, like that's, that's the wounded healer become the healer. That is so admirable, as long as that person can share where they actually are. Because we're in an industry that's very social media focused. So it's super, and this is what I want to say as a caveat to our conversation, it's super easy for pretenders to become successful. And I know this because I used to pretend I used to pretend that I had my things together. They weren't really together. Now I just realized man, the most relaxing thing I can do, and the most healthy and wealthy thing I can do is Just being myself and tell the truth. That is the best, that is the best the most healing thing any of us can do
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I mean, not everyone's going to be at the most optimal level of health physically, or, or just mentally or emotionally, but they may have come from a place. Let's say they're here. And they're on this journey. They're already here. They're already, you know, halfway maybe to where their goal was up above that, right? Yes, they can help people from here to there, for sure, right. It's like if you've only gone half up the mountain, but you're on the on the way to climbing all the way up. Well, you can at least take other people up to that halfway point,
Josh Trent: Oh, man, everybody's maybe heard of martial arts or maybe done them. You don't have to be a black belt to teach a white belt. Let that land for a moment. Like there's a wide spectrum of colors that are way beyond the white belt. So no matter what, as long as people are being in integrity, about what they're sharing, I think we're in a good place. And I think we are going to come back as a collective to that actual service to ourselves, our brothers and sisters in the planet, you know, and again, I know that it sounds like Whoo. So I just want to make sure that I'm talking to the people who are more logical and analytical minded. Because you know, when I tell you the thing that that resists that is probably your ego saying, What is this guy, some kind of spiritual hippie, but I'm not like I'm in the logical world, like you, I have just seen and felt and experienced certain things that have really led me to this path that we don't have self love. And we're not taking care of ourselves and other people on the planet, nothing else really matters. It doesn't matter how how great you look, or how much money you have in the bank, like none of that stuff is going to be what you care about in your last days of life.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And so much of good health is the foundations right? It's kind of the boring stuff. And so that's like probably the most important part. So if you have a good foundation, then you can always get you know more intricate in all the other things that you do with different testing or looking at infections or mold or certain supplements you can always get more intricate, but it's always built on a solid foundation versus a poor foundation where you're not sleeping well not breathing. Well not you not doing all the right things with your food. Then that's kind of where I see a lot of doctors gonna get into this mode. They just get very nuanced and very specialized. And they miss the solid foundation where that all should sit off.
Josh Trent: Yeah, look at the industry of biohacking. So one, one fascinating thing that I see is we have people doing photobiomodulation and red light therapy, and all these different ways you know that the nighttime glasses, the NADs, and all these things, and they're great, but but it's almost like if you if you're going to build a home and you build it on a sloping side and on shaky sand and the first time a storm comes aka a virus or your wife leaves you or your husband or your there's a there's an external stressor, that house is going to collapse. It doesn't matter how pretty it is. So that's this whole biohacking approach where I think Dave Asprey had a good intentions in the beginning, but he's kind of created a monster, you know, because we have all these people that are just like caught up in the marketing of Oh my god, should I Get the new thing and it's like nah, you actually need to eat, move and sleep and believe, think, feel and act. Those are the seven pillars that I believe were all built upon
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it make sense. And then I think if you have the pillars dialed in then I think the biohacking is a much better kind of layer on top of it, right?
Josh Trent: Yeah, I think biohacking is kind of like the the pretty windows and like the new format into flower. Yes, but it's like an eight the house my friends. Exactly it really where you live.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, I totally agree. So what's next? So from regards to breathing? Is there another layer to it that you want to kind of hit?
Josh Trent: Yeah, so we talked about the phase one. And this is what I really love about the people that are in our programs is that when we're looking at meditation, Justin, like most people struggle with just sitting still. You know that that's the hardest thing, especially for people that are living this fast paced life. So I think that phase one daily meditation, breath work practices, we're talking seven to five minutes or less. This is what gives people the actual toolset like the physical and the emotional intelligence to sit still, and tune into what's actually going on in their life. Think of it as like a five to seven minute emotional inventory. That's really what phase one is. Phase Two is more stress management. So this is acute, right? Like acute meaning it happens not that often, but when it happens, it takes you down. So acute stress management would be like breathwork methods that lasts from three to seven minutes. They're designed to get you immediately out of fight or flight. Let's say you're having a challenging stressful situation in your day like rapid heartbeat, or you need to shift out of this like right now. Well, we have certain breathing protocols in this program that deal with anxiety or self esteem, even self love imposter syndrome, speaking to a crowd, things like that, but I will say that I'll do a little give right here because it's really necessary. alternate nostril breathing, where we're just using our index finger and our thumb, where we're breathing in, but this is the Key that most people miss is they just do the alternate nostril breathing. When we are breathing in through our left side, it's activating the right brain hemisphere. When we're breathing in through our right side, it's activating the left hemisphere. So the key on this one is to do those 60 breaths before you set and this is for acute stress management. And I really love this before going on a stage because what do we need most when we're about to go speak?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We need creativity. [crosstalk]
Josh Trent: Right, exactly. We don't want to go into like just a rhythmic, calm breathing to calm ourselves down. We want to increase our focus, we want to increase our adaptability to being able to see what's going on. So the best way to do that is through doing these cycles of their alternate nostril breathing. And then this is the kicker that Everyone misses that I really want to let people know when you're breathing in through your right nose. really visualize, actually visualize your left brain becoming active. And then when you're breathing in through the left nostril, really visualize your right brain becoming active. When you do enough of this. That is where you have the physiology and you have the visualization that are there, bringing your creativity up that are allowing you to get on the stage and be able to not just become because obviously, the belly breathing and the rhythmic breathing is going to calm you down, it's going to activate your vagal nerve, which by the way, is integrated into the diaphragm. So not only do we get that stretch response from the diaphragm, that turns the vagal nerve on and says, Hey, parents sympathetic nervous system, let's activate, let's bring everything down. But then we get the creativity from the right and left nostril. So we're really doing a top down and a bottom up approach to this stage fright breathing. So that's a good one. And that that's what we go over in the program too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's cool. So you're doing left nostril here. So you're, you're closing off the right to enhance the left breathing, and that's going to go to the right brain and then vice versa. That's more creativity in the left brain, more analytical, more numbers. So then you may close off this nostril.
Josh Trent: So yeah, left, and we need both, you know, we're going up on a stage. It's like Lights, camera and action.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You're doing like six breaths. You don't like six breasts for each knows that we don't-
Josh Trent: No, what I would recommend is not counting sides because we don't want to, we don't want to only focus on logical, I would say just focus on doing those 60 press that we talked about. So in a relaxed position, stack your head, spine and shoulders in a line. And then do it for a timer of five minutes to set a timer on your phone. And don't worry about how many times you're doing it, just focus on thumb to index thumb to index and just roll that 40. Yeah, and that way, before you know it, you'll forget that you're even doing it. And then you'll go on to the stage or into the business meeting with a more relaxed calm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Now, you mentioned your morning routine. What does that look like? So you start your day? How does that all go?
Josh Trent: Okay, I'd love to since we're on this this morning, routine conversation. I know, you know, it's probably come up a ton on your show. Everybody's got their own approach, right. Yeah, I think that I think that if we really boil it down, most of us have about 10 to 20 minutes, minutes, let's just say 21 minutes because that's what we created as a gift to give to people which is out of 300 plus shows what are the what are the common threads that connect the the base practices for like the Tim Ferriss, the Dave Asprey, all the people like, what's the thing they're really doing, man? Well, I'll tell you what it's about six things. It's about six things. And one of them is making your bed. There's hydration, there's some specific movement, there's some specific breath and meditation and journaling. And those are the ones that make the biggest impact, no matter if you're spiritual or logical. So that's, that's what I do in my morning. And, and I want to give this to your audience because man, I know how much of a spectrum you cover on the show, like the way that you serve and the way that you give to people that follow you. I would love to be able to give to if that's okay. Absolutely. Well, it's wellnessforce.com/m21. It's morning 21. It's a great read. It's a free practice in there you guys can have it like it. distilled it down, it took me months to create an in there there is breathwork exercise for a week there is meditation, there is movement, it's all linked there for you to do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I didn't even know that was coming. That was perfect.
Josh Trent: Yeah, but here's the thing, like, we got the PDF, which is perfectly created for you. Are you gonna do it? You're gonna like that's the deciding factor. You know, there's a bridge between knowing and doing, man, as I'm sure you experienced with patience. And my heart goes out to all of us, because I'm there many times in my life all the time. Well, I know all the things. I have all the books, but am I doing it? Am I actually doing it? And there's so much to explore in the middle of knowing and doing. And sometimes it's just like, Hey, you don't have to do at all like there's not a pressure to incorporate all that. But maybe you read it, you go through it and you just pick one thing that resonates and then you apply that and then maybe you get some momentum and then that inspires you to go back and maybe stack one more thing into the routine and the momentum. Yeah, momentum is the hardest when we're starting God. It's like somebody who's Let's say they're they're overweight, like, like maybe 20%, more body fat 22. And they're in a place where they're broke financially, and then their relationships aren't working. I've been there, my friends, I've been there multiple times.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You don't know where to start, you get overwhelmed. And then analysis leads to paralysis. You're like, man, there's so many things I could do. But I just can't do any of it. Because I just can't make up my mind.
Josh Trent: Can we go there? So yeah, we're in that place? What do we do? What is the very first thing that we do? I think, I know, from my own experience, it's doing some type of state change. Because the reality is if we don't know what to do, but we know we don't want this, then we must allow ourselves to do something different so that we can feel and be you know, there's this paradigm that people talk about in personal development. And it's be do have, you know, I'm gonna be the type of doctor that cares about my patients are the type of podcaster that cares about information. I'm just going to be that first record. garlis of what diploma I have on the wall or how many books or interviews I've done, then I'm going to do the things that someone with my qualities, the way of being that I'm that I'm embodying is actually going to do, I'm going to have great conversations, I'm going to go for a walk, I'm going to do my breathing, I'm going to drink clean water, I'm going to have loving conversations, I'm going to admit when I'm wrong, I'm going to allow my ego to dissolve, then I go into the having, because this is what people get backwards, man, everybody wants to have money. If I have money, I'll be happy. If I have a wife, I'll be happy. If I have a husband, I'll be happy. It's frickin backwards. It's being doing and having. So this relates to our conversation of you know, where do I start? You start by taking a deep breath. Sometimes that's all you get. Sometimes all you have is a deep breath. You know, you get struck down to your knees with a financial loss or you lose a daughter or a son, or you go through adversity and you might find yourself on your knees, honestly just breathing and just praying to spirit for something. So that's what happens to all of us at certain points in life and just in life. We respond, man, how we, how we respond is everything. Because with our, with our tools for state change that allows us to, to go into the next moment with something that's actually going to be good for us. But if we don't have tools and we're not trained, then we're going to seek addictions, we're going to seek devices, we're gonna hang out with people that that validate our story of being a victim. So all this stuff either leads us towards love or leads us towards fear.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, 100%. And I think when you're in that place, just starting to think about what it is you want, and starting to listen to people that have what it is you want kind of starts to get the Beingness motivated. And if you're having a hard time getting out of the gates, that's where reaching out to someone that's kind of walk with people on that journey increases your chance of success. And so those are the kind of I do agree to be the being part's really important. Because if people just do and they don't have ever really thought about it, their chances of failure increases. And then also if they fail, they may not jump back on the And again, right, so then it creates a level of sustainability, where you're just, you're just you're more supported. And you've kind of looked at best practices. So your success rate goes up.
Josh Trent: That's powerful man. Because you know what I was thinking about when you're sharing that was, yeah, it's the being that most people have trouble with. And I think what really the most people have trouble with is too many of us have way too much pride. I'll speak for myself. Too many of us have a lot of pride and that pride. It's almost like a veil that only allows people to see what we want them to see. And then the backside of that we're struggling with alcohol. We're struggling with marijuana, we're struggling with porn, we're struggling with food or shopping, fill in the blank, man. You know, the ego loves to put to hold things in the dark. So what happens is, is when we're not articulate, and we can't be truthful about what's really going on, it leads us down this path of disconnection and the path of disconnection is what yields disease. So really, really what we're talking about and I love to go deep on all these answers, because that's where deep Humans? Is that where either being honest or not.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%? That makes a lot of sense. Now, question for you is, how long is being too much meaning like, if you're just sitting in as being state, and you're not ever moving to the action state, when is just sitting in the being just too long, like, wow, that's gonna be pulling the trigger?
Josh Trent: That's a really good question. You know, god that's so unique for everyone. Because I would say this, I think I think the answer to your question is, it depends. And with the caveat of everyone knows when what they're doing, or how they're being is not worth it anymore. Right. And for some people that might take weeks or months or years, but what what makes something worth it if you even look at the definition of worthy ness, if we feel worthy, and we have love, self love practices, and we actually energetically and we embody the fact that we are loved We are truly loved, then that's going to allow us to shift out of states of unworthiness. way faster. I call them cycles of recommitment. So when I work with people, I walk them through inventories of, alright, you've made a mistake, and that's fine. Is it actually a mistake? Or is it just a lesson? Is it just something that took you off your path for a brief moment to give you the contrast of energetically, emotionally, whatever it is a result that you don't like, if you're in a crappy spot, and you don't like how you feel or you don't like, what's going on? Can you see that as a gift? And can you see that as something that's directing you back to what you do? And so the answer to your question is that it always depends, but I think that the real barometer of success there is, am I experiencing a life that is giving me joy? That is something that I'm that I'm in enjoyment of that I that I like, do I like my life? Or are there certain parts of my life that are that are in the background that I know I'm in the process of change, so If someone's in a place where they're really stuck, and they feel like Damn, I'm depressed, I'm sad, I'm overweight, whatever it is, I would say allow yourself to feel it. Allow yours. It's the opposite of what is taught out there. Most people say like, Oh, go out for a walk, you know, change your state right away. I'm Yes, I'm saying change your state. But only change your state when you've gotten the gift of your discomfort. Get the gift of your discomfort before you change your state because if you change your state without unpacking the gift, you're going to go right back in that the cycle of recommitment is going to get even longer and longer. What we're looking for is to recommit to your practices of health in a shorter timeframe over and over and over again so that the cycles of recommitment get smaller and smaller and smaller.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And when I'm interacting with patients, I'm always looking at what their chief issues are. I understand their timeline of how we got to this point. So make sense from a root cause perspective how we got here, and then what do we want to be do or have that the symptoms that these health issues are broken? And you're having and then once they understand what they want to be, do or have, and we understand that the energy is preventing them from going out and doing that or their pain or their digestive issues or preventing them from going out and achieving or doing or being whatever that is. Now I can create leverage for them to change because now they understand, hey, eating this type of food or sleeping like this or doing this kind of movement isn't about doing that unto itself. It's about moving the physiology in a direction that allows you to be do or have these things over here that we talked about.
Josh Trent: I love these said leverage the word leverage, that is so powerful man, because you know what the greatest leverage is? It's either pain or pleasure. Like I have a friend who I just met actually. And he came to me I was I was giving him a gift. I was giving him some some green juice. And he was like, Yeah, I just found that I have cancer. Hmm. And and it rocked my world because I didn't expect it. You know, I'm here. I'm just giving somebody a gift and like, I just don't have cancer. But you know what I've seen, I've seen his entire world shift. Now. He's hanging out. With community now he's being more active. Now he's looking into Wim Hof. Now he's, he's, disease is sometimes the biggest lever that we all need. Yep. And disease is a reminder of the path back home. So we're all going home eventually. And we're gonna leave this physical planet, man. But before we do so, like what are the lessons that we are interested in learning? And I think when I've caught myself to where I've been like, why does cancer even happen? Why does this even happen? Why are people born? Why, why, why, why, why? And the more I would ask that why, specifically in psychedelic journeys, the more I would hear back that you don't get to know because that's honoring the mystery. We're in a big mystery here. So part of that mystery is is honoring the decisions that we make and accepting the fact that sometimes people get sick. Sometimes people get disease, sometimes people get cancer, but we also know that that in those situations, how they respond to it, and what it actually means for their life to be more connected. Did the community be more connected to themselves? Sometimes that's the biggest leverage that's that's ever needed. You know? So leverage is a big one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I totally agree. Is there anything else you want to leave the listeners here today with Josh?
Josh Trent: Yeah, I would just say that we all get in times where we feel low. I've had mental health issues in the past. And I think we're, as we step into May, you know, May is this National Mental Health Awareness Month, which is fine. But we get to be aware of it all the time. Because the majority of people that are having trouble with wellness, which is really the core of your show, you know, how do we live our life? Well, what's our well being looked like? It starts with a decision we make, and the decision we make is, hey, Justin, hey, Josh, hey, person who's with us. I love you. And just feel the resistance. They're even telling yourself that you're loved even understanding that you could be loved. That's the big one. And it's the thing that a lot of people don't talk about because it's kind of like Whoo, let's be honest, it's kind of woowoo to talk about self love. But it has a scientific and pragmatic meaning to our nervous system, to our mental health to our well being, that can't always be quantified. You know, science and spirituality are at odds for a reason. And it's because we're evolving as a species to understand that we've always been loved. So, I think that that's the biggest path I want to leave people with is if you're gonna do one thing from this entire conversation, take a deep breath, take loving ownership of your state, and really do the work, do the work so that you can be the type of person that has the things that are centered around self love.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that that makes so much sense. And I always kind of have the mindset is you have to be the one to pat yourself on the back a lot because there are a lot of times you're going to be cleaning the dishes, doing some chores, taking out the garbage is doing the obligations of life, and there's not going to be a crowd watching you or your spouse is going to be watching you the whole time to be able to give you a pass. The back saying great job taking out that garbage. Hey, thanks for putting away the dishes. It's not gonna happen. So you kind of have to be there being like, wow, you did a really good job making your bed this morning. You know, you did a really good job eating that great organic food for breakfast, especially when the doughnuts were over there in the office instead, right? So you kind of have to be the one catching yourself doing all these things and kind of giving yourself that, you know, silent pat on the back, or even going into the bathroom and looking at yourself in the mirror and giving yourself some praise or some affirmations for doing the right thing.
Josh Trent: Yeah, when's the last time that we did that? You know, let that land for a moment. was the last time you actually did what Justin said. You know, it's been a while this is your reminder, this is your loving reminder. So I love that man.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I think also that takes it takes away from you needing to plug into other people to get that because a lot of times if you plug into people to get it number one, they have a lot of control over you. And if you plug into the wrong people, they may they may manipulate you with that. And so the more you unplug from others You kind of plug into yourself a little bit more, what it gives you the control, but to it gives you the ability to have that that that that lovingness reflected back inside of you for all the good things that you do.
Josh Trent: Man, I've enjoyed this conversation immensely. And I know that if somebody is in that state where they feel stuck, if you listen to this twice, or three times, it's gonna help shift you. So it's an honor, man.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I really appreciate it. And you probably your podcast is Wellness Force?
Josh Trent: Wellness Force Radio, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wellness Force radio. Excellent. Is that wellnessforceradio.com?
Josh Trent: No, it's WellnessForce.com. And the reason the reason we named it that is back in 2010. I was just like, what am I doing in health and fitness because I had 10 years as a trainer, and I realized that fitness was the gateway to wellness and we're all born with this force inside of us. Everybody's born with a wellness force, no matter who you are, what you're up to. It's just tapping into that. It's allowing that to flow.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I appreciate it. You're in my podcast queue. You have some excellent guests. So anyone listening feel free head over to WellnessForce.com, and then how do they get access to the sleep course you mentioned again, I'm sorry that we had the morning routine course. And then you also the breathing course.
Josh Trent: Yeah. So I mean, gosh, it's a part of everything. So I love that you said sleep and breathing, wellnessforce.com/m21. That's morning 21. In that guide is a beautiful easy step by step pathway to get access to the breathe program and the breathe program is really about using breath for stress reduction and designing life for your own personal well being. So those two things are linked at wellnessforce.com/m21.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Very good, Josh. Really appreciate it. Man. love to have you back soon. It was a pleasure chatting with you have an awesome day, man.
Josh Trent: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It's Dr. Justin Marchegiani here with Josh Trent in the house from California. Josh, how are we doing today man?
Josh Trent: Doing so good, man. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well, I've seen you online for a year. So it's a pleasure to connect with you over the interwebs.
Josh Trent: Excellent man.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let's dive in. We chatted about kind of in our pre interview that we really wanted to talk about breath today and how breath can be used to plug in, optimize and tweak our nervous system accelerate health and performance. First off, let what made you get so passionate about something as simple but phenomenal as breath.
Josh Trent: Yeah, because it was the only lever that I started to realize I could pull from my own anxiety. And I think many of us deal with anxiety. It's a myriad, right? There's a wide spectrum of things that make us feel uncomfortable. Typically, it's the stories we're telling ourselves. The greatest way to get out of story is to shift your state and I think one of the greatest ways if not the greatest way Justin is to shift our state by the breath. Because if we do that, then we can choose anything. And this is something that came to me probably in about 2017 where I had done Mark divine seal fit event, which is like this 14 hour overnight crucible. Where was that like with water and you do like Murph, which is 300, air squats, 100 pull ups, 200 push ups, you do it soaking wet. So I did all these things physically to find the crucible of Where does my mind go? Where does my psyche go when I'm under pain when I'm under duress? And so what I learned from that is the greatest thing that we all have is this shared adversity of life, you know, we are all suffering in some way. We are all dealing with some kind of hardship. And so I started to go to my breath training when I started to train for the 20 acts and I learned actually box breathing from Mark Devine at the unbeatable mind summit. So that was the the kind of beginning Justin was, oh, I can actually use my breath to calm myself down. I had no idea that breathwork gave me existed and there's a huge story behind that too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. Awesome. So when we breathe, I'm just curious to get your take on it. So a lot of people, they tend to be mouth breathers, which kind of creates the sympathetic nervous system response where breathing through the nose kind of activates that parasympathetics those olfactory nerves, which really help kind of that calming part of the nervous system. Is that something you agree with? And then do you focus on nasal breathing more versus mouth or nasal for inspiration for expiration, or all nasal? How does that work?
Josh Trent: That's a big question. So in my in my journeys with breath work, I believe there's three phases of breath work, and then the physiology aligns accordingly, right. So we have breathwork for daily meditation, right, whether it's rhythmic breathing, or circular breathing, but I do believe that if you look at the physiology of the nose, and I learned this from Dan Burleigh, he's a four decade breathwork practitioner. The nose has spiral helical designs that are meant to draw air in so from a scientific perspective, we are missing to breathe in, inhale through the nose, that activates the stress response. When we exhale, we have those parasympathetic receptors that allow our nervous system to relax. And of course, this is all through the vagal tone, right? So when we breathe in through our nose, when we breathe out through our mouth, especially Justin, if we're doing that full belly breathing, like a big curve right now, everybody, everybody's like, I'll do the belly breathing, but like, are you actually doing it? Most people breathe in and out through their chest only because they're chaotic. They're fully flexed. So long answer to your short question is, yeah, we breathe in through the nose. And when we breathe out through the mouth, that is what allows our nervous system to down regulate. Yes, there's other things like acute stress management, breath work and catharsis, breathing, but those involve more breathing through the mouth, because that's what's going to excite the nervous system. Kind of like if you do the alternate nostril breathing to go on a stage. So but for most people, the best way to breathe is going to be that deep belly breath, inhale through the nose, and then exhale through the mouth.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Yeah, when I deal with my patients, and we're available Waiting breathing, you know, one of the things I'll do is I'll put one hand on their chest, one hand in their tummy. And I haven't breathed. And essentially, we want the feel the bottom hand to move but not the top hand, kind of a similar evaluation that you're looking at?
Josh Trent: You know what I do, that's a great way to do it. I learned this from Paul check, I take a liter bottle of water, I fill it full, I lay them on the ground, or, or, or a bag of sand. And I just tell them to mentally focus on raising the bag or bottle and lowering the bag or bottle. So I'm actually training that somatic response and then when they're on their back, so that's how I think most people could start to learn how to belly breathe.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think anything that draws their awareness that this part of the area's moving versus this and then, of course, when you're when your chest breathing, you know, all these scalene muscles are coming in. So then you're kind of drawing more of a forward head posture, which then yeah, actually makes it harder to get that deep breath in, so then it creates more of a sympathetic response. So I think that's, I think that's really key.
Josh Trent: One thing about this to our entire culture, you know, case in part to these devices, right that we have doors so forward, flexed, driving computers cell phone even in conversations. Most people aren't in the current moment, they're leaning forward to anticipate the next moment. So they're not even in the current moment. They're just leaning forward. This contributes to our flexed hips, or lengthen glutes, or kyphosis. And then we start living life where gravity is defeating us. So I believe that we get to kind of lean back, take our time, enjoy where we actually are, instead of always anticipating being safe the next moment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I 100%. Agree. So when you're breathing, what does that look like for you? Like, is there a certain like, there's different things out there? Everyone knows Wim Hof, which is the different breathing. So people are focusing on inspiration. Sometimes there's a hold to increase co2, which is shown to improve basal dilation of the brain. Some have a longer exhale, what does your I mean, there's probably different ones that you like, but like right now, if you're focusing on the listeners here, it's the easiest thing they could grab, which one would you recommend and what does that look like?
Josh Trent: So in our breathe program that we have we started With just training someone to do what's called cyclical breath, and cyclical breath is where we have a charged inhale and a relaxed, soft exhale. Yes, there are similarities of Wim Hof. There's also similarities with Soma breath, or with breakfast prayer, or with or with even holotropic breathing. The majority of things when it revolves around breath is that we're not reinventing the wheel, there's only three phases of breathing, right? The inhale, the whole, the exhale, we're not going to like develop some new breathing pattern, because that's a whole pattern. So what I do is when I focus on people that are just starting their journey, and they've heard about breath work, or they're curious about breath work, or they're like, how do I use this for my well being, I start them with the cyclical, and that is a pull from a rich inhale, a relaxed exhale and no pause six of those in a row. If you look at the science, there's multiple studies, two of them recently on PubMed, that is what shifts our nervous system into less fight or flight and more rest and digest. So literally, I mean, that's The best place to start of course from there. In the program, we also focus on different patterns of breathing, you know whether it's being onstage or just being present with your family member, but honestly, man, six breaths is all we need.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So six breaths, meaning like a six seconds in like or six breaths in a row, like–
Josh Trent: Six total. So literally just– six times. So you notice how when I pull in, I'm actually taking control of my respiration. And this is, one thing I put an analogy I want to say is, when we breathe in, we're taking control. When we breathe out, we're letting go of trying to be in control. That's a big differentiation that I want to say about breathing is we never want to we're not trying to be in control both ways, like we can control the breath in, but when we try to control the breath out too much, we're actually defeating the purpose of being in that cyclical pattern.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, and so when you breathe in or breathe out, you're not focusing on any amount of time. It could be maybe two or three seconds in. It's just a ritual.
Josh Trent: Yeah, I mean, whatever and this goes to breathe respiration, muscles, whatever someone's intercostals or their diaphragm, or their posture can handle because for some people doing this might be really challenging, you know, so maybe they need to pull in a little softer, just depending on how much their inhalation muscles have been trained. So that's why I think honestly, the best way to teach breathing or to do breathing is not to get caught up in the weeds of details of seconds of hold and everything else. It's just clear, concise direction, like you'd tell a 10 year old like Hey, take a deep breath in with your mouth closed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Yeah, and then try to make sure that the the belly is really being activated.
Josh Trent: Yeah, exactly like you do with your patients, you know, queue them to cinematically feel and visualize what's going on. Otherwise, we are creatures of habit, right? We go to these patterns that don't always serve us, but our body's super efficient. I mean, you know this because, you know, on your show, the body is always trying to achieve homeostasis, no matter what, always right. But yeah, it's gonna do that with the path of least resistance and the least amount of energy expenditure. So it's up to us. to direct that body, so it's in alignment with what we actually want.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Well, there's things like Wim Hof that are out there. That's a big breathing style that people were talking about. What does that look like? Is this something that you incorporate yourself at all or people you work with? What is that?
Josh Trent: You know what I have you ever done any sessions on Wim Hof?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm hmm. I have.
Josh Trent: Did you have an experience where you felt an emotional release or catharsis in some way?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I actually used to do it a lot in in a float tank. Yeah, it's really interesting, because I had all the extra magnesium coming in, there was total sensory deprivation. So it was pretty euphoric. I think a lot of that euphoria is coming from the co2 that's being increased with and then you and then that co2 goes up and then you get this a little bit of adrenaline rush. And for me, it's interesting because I was in this magnesium, you know, drenched environment. So it was pretty euphoric for me, I really enjoyed it. What was your experience?
Josh Trent: My experience was that when I initially did Wim Hof, I thought that it gave me more energy than I never felt. So maybe it was something that was coming in through a different pathway energetically that I hadn't experienced. Or maybe it was the super oxygenation. I'm not really sure. A lot of times we get so caught up with understanding the science that we forget the biggest report card is how we feel. So my initial experience with Wim Hof was it was energizing and charging. It wasn't until I started to do longer, more cathartic sessions that involves more of Bruce Lipton's work where there was actual tissue palpitation, and movement and breathing or I was letting go of things that didn't serve me and honestly, in Costa Rica, I combined plant medicine, which is IO, Osca and breathwork, which was incredibly powerful. But I think to answer your question, like the Wim Hof is great. There's nothing wrong with it. Actually, there's everything right with it. It's just that a lot of times people are adverse to cold therapy. You know, because Wim specialization is breathing and cold, so everybody can jump into the cold if they're not ready for it if they haven't done any kind of training. raining like that. So I don't think his method is for everyone. But that's cool, because that's why we're here talking about all the methods.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, what I typically do is I'll do the breathing, I'll start off, I'll do a normal shower every morning and then I'll just over like two or three minute period, I'll just change the water down to cold. And then I'll do the breathing for like, one minute. And then that that alone just really jumpstart my day. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, that's a pretty good way to do that. No, you don't I'll still do some some butter coffee with sometimes Yeah, and collagen. But it's like, Man, I'm ready to go. So I like that. And it's a kind of the way of eating it down versus, you know, jumping in with two feet, so to speak.
Josh Trent: Yeah. And and you know, this is cool, because I think most people that are listening to your show, and that follow you, they understand that there's so many different tools and so many different ways of approaching this stress reduction nut, but you got to start somewhere. So whether you start with cold or breath or supplements or walking or meditation, I mean, gosh, you know, there's a huge spectrum of tools that can get us to reduce stress, but you know what, I really think Please interrupt me if I'm taking us off of a weird path here. But I think it's kind of cool because I like the weird. I think really what all these tools are doing is they're reminding us that we get to take better loving care of ourselves, treat our brothers and sisters on the planet with more love and care and treat the planet with more love and care. So all the reason we're stressed out, the reason we have this, psychosis as a society is because we've allowed the models that be that have, you know, been really from this old school way of thinking where we're going to extract as much resources from the planet as possible. And, you know, to hell with how we suffer and who cares about the long term effects of our children or their children. That's really while we're stressed, we're stressed because on an existential, very low, subtle energy level, we are all feeling this existential unrest. Where we're in a time right now, where we're under attack, our attention is currency, our health, our air, our environment, everything right now is either stacked against us or stacked for us depending on the intention of how we approach it. So I think there's a A lot of background stuff going on here, that really the stress reduction tools are pointing us to navigate towards this ethos of more love. And I'm not meaning like hippies around a fireplace. I mean, like, legitimately the act of love is what's healing to ourselves and to the planet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think that's really important. I mean, just you jump on an airplane, right? What what are the instructions? When cabin pressure gets lost, right? Put your mask on before you help. You're kidding. And it's part of the just the mindset, your body can only your body can only write a check for what's in your account. So the more you put love into our health, which health is just nothing more than energy and resources, the more energy and resources and or love you can give back. So yeah, it's important because a lot of people I think, you know, especially from 30 or 40 years ago, there was this sense of like, you develop self satisfaction by giving everything away that you have, and then you're depleted, and then you're resentful, where it should be a little bit more of the opposite. You focus on yourself inward first, then you can give out even more outward. So it's kind of a different transactional model.
Josh Trent: Yeah, and I don't know if you've talked about Lao Tzu or everyone's probably heard this phrase, you know, As above, so below. And that's the same thing like we literally figuratively, metaphorically like there is nothing I can give you, Justin, from a knowledge perspective, that I haven't been through myself that I have a body. It's so easy in our world to because there's so many people that are great researchers and great knowledge collectors. I have this concept that I explore in wellness force and its intelligence, you know, what is the true definition of physical and emotional intelligence? And I believe intelligence has zero to do with how smart you are. I think intelligence based on my almost 20 years in wellness is our ability to gather information like this amazing show. Our ability to apply the information, you know, try on the sweater, see if it matches, do the supplement protocol, go through the food elimination diet. And then lastly, what you and I and everyone are working on is embodiment. You know, it's the embodiment of these lessons where we've gathered we've applied now we're embodied now when I talk to john And when Justin talks to a patient, we don't have to say too much because people can feel from us that we've embodied the gathering in the application, it's actually been imprinted into our nervous system. So we admit that when we're with other people, we don't have to say much, because the energy is just there. It's something they can feel that's true intelligence. That's what we're really all kind of leading ourselves towards. And honestly, that's why people listen to podcasts. That's why people are here with us, because they're on that journey, just like we are.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And I think people see that their typical, the typical medical model, and the average medical doctor lives, 10 years less than the average patient. So we know there's some missing information that the medical doctor has and isn't given to you. There's just they're not educated fully. They understand a certain model of medicine, that that's really great for acute care and drugs and surgery in these things, but they're missing that. And I think like you said, you want to find people that embody what it is you want, because that means application, that means you're not just understanding it. You're talking applying it and embody it in your in your life in your house.
Josh Trent: Do I love this? Because I'm not trying to shame anyone? In no way am I saying that a health practitioner who doesn't have perfect visual representation of your health is in any way doing a bad job because there's no place in my explanation for shame. All I'm saying is that we're all on a spectrum of an evolution of embodying our lessons. And so if there is a health practitioner who's struggling with their own health issues, which is pretty freakin normal, you know, like that's, that's the wounded healer become the healer. That is so admirable, as long as that person can share where they actually are. Because we're in an industry that's very social media focused. So it's super, and this is what I want to say as a caveat to our conversation, it's super easy for pretenders to become successful. And I know this because I used to pretend I used to pretend that I had my things together. They weren't really together. Now I just realized man, the most relaxing thing I can do, and the most healthy and wealthy thing I can do is Just being myself and tell the truth. That is the best, that is the best the most healing thing any of us can do
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I mean, not everyone's going to be at the most optimal level of health physically, or, or just mentally or emotionally, but they may have come from a place. Let's say they're here. And they're on this journey. They're already here. They're already, you know, halfway maybe to where their goal was up above that, right? Yes, they can help people from here to there, for sure, right. It's like if you've only gone half up the mountain, but you're on the on the way to climbing all the way up. Well, you can at least take other people up to that halfway point,
Josh Trent: Oh, man, everybody's maybe heard of martial arts or maybe done them. You don't have to be a black belt to teach a white belt. Let that land for a moment. Like there's a wide spectrum of colors that are way beyond the white belt. So no matter what, as long as people are being in integrity, about what they're sharing, I think we're in a good place. And I think we are going to come back as a collective to that actual service to ourselves, our brothers and sisters in the planet, you know, and again, I know that it sounds like Whoo. So I just want to make sure that I'm talking to the people who are more logical and analytical minded. Because you know, when I tell you the thing that that resists that is probably your ego saying, What is this guy, some kind of spiritual hippie, but I'm not like I'm in the logical world, like you, I have just seen and felt and experienced certain things that have really led me to this path that we don't have self love. And we're not taking care of ourselves and other people on the planet, nothing else really matters. It doesn't matter how how great you look, or how much money you have in the bank, like none of that stuff is going to be what you care about in your last days of life.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And so much of good health is the foundations right? It's kind of the boring stuff. And so that's like probably the most important part. So if you have a good foundation, then you can always get you know more intricate in all the other things that you do with different testing or looking at infections or mold or certain supplements you can always get more intricate, but it's always built on a solid foundation versus a poor foundation where you're not sleeping well not breathing. Well not you not doing all the right things with your food. Then that's kind of where I see a lot of doctors gonna get into this mode. They just get very nuanced and very specialized. And they miss the solid foundation where that all should sit off.
Josh Trent: Yeah, look at the industry of biohacking. So one, one fascinating thing that I see is we have people doing photobiomodulation and red light therapy, and all these different ways you know that the nighttime glasses, the NADs, and all these things, and they're great, but but it's almost like if you if you're going to build a home and you build it on a sloping side and on shaky sand and the first time a storm comes aka a virus or your wife leaves you or your husband or your there's a there's an external stressor, that house is going to collapse. It doesn't matter how pretty it is. So that's this whole biohacking approach where I think Dave Asprey had a good intentions in the beginning, but he's kind of created a monster, you know, because we have all these people that are just like caught up in the marketing of Oh my god, should I Get the new thing and it's like nah, you actually need to eat, move and sleep and believe, think, feel and act. Those are the seven pillars that I believe were all built upon
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it make sense. And then I think if you have the pillars dialed in then I think the biohacking is a much better kind of layer on top of it, right?
Josh Trent: Yeah, I think biohacking is kind of like the the pretty windows and like the new format into flower. Yes, but it's like an eight the house my friends. Exactly it really where you live.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, I totally agree. So what's next? So from regards to breathing? Is there another layer to it that you want to kind of hit?
Josh Trent: Yeah, so we talked about the phase one. And this is what I really love about the people that are in our programs is that when we're looking at meditation, Justin, like most people struggle with just sitting still. You know that that's the hardest thing, especially for people that are living this fast paced life. So I think that phase one daily meditation, breath work practices, we're talking seven to five minutes or less. This is what gives people the actual toolset like the physical and the emotional intelligence to sit still, and tune into what's actually going on in their life. Think of it as like a five to seven minute emotional inventory. That's really what phase one is. Phase Two is more stress management. So this is acute, right? Like acute meaning it happens not that often, but when it happens, it takes you down. So acute stress management would be like breathwork methods that lasts from three to seven minutes. They're designed to get you immediately out of fight or flight. Let's say you're having a challenging stressful situation in your day like rapid heartbeat, or you need to shift out of this like right now. Well, we have certain breathing protocols in this program that deal with anxiety or self esteem, even self love imposter syndrome, speaking to a crowd, things like that, but I will say that I'll do a little give right here because it's really necessary. alternate nostril breathing, where we're just using our index finger and our thumb, where we're breathing in, but this is the Key that most people miss is they just do the alternate nostril breathing. When we are breathing in through our left side, it's activating the right brain hemisphere. When we're breathing in through our right side, it's activating the left hemisphere. So the key on this one is to do those 60 breaths before you set and this is for acute stress management. And I really love this before going on a stage because what do we need most when we're about to go speak?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We need creativity. [crosstalk]
Josh Trent: Right, exactly. We don't want to go into like just a rhythmic, calm breathing to calm ourselves down. We want to increase our focus, we want to increase our adaptability to being able to see what's going on. So the best way to do that is through doing these cycles of their alternate nostril breathing. And then this is the kicker that Everyone misses that I really want to let people know when you're breathing in through your right nose. really visualize, actually visualize your left brain becoming active. And then when you're breathing in through the left nostril, really visualize your right brain becoming active. When you do enough of this. That is where you have the physiology and you have the visualization that are there, bringing your creativity up that are allowing you to get on the stage and be able to not just become because obviously, the belly breathing and the rhythmic breathing is going to calm you down, it's going to activate your vagal nerve, which by the way, is integrated into the diaphragm. So not only do we get that stretch response from the diaphragm, that turns the vagal nerve on and says, Hey, parents sympathetic nervous system, let's activate, let's bring everything down. But then we get the creativity from the right and left nostril. So we're really doing a top down and a bottom up approach to this stage fright breathing. So that's a good one. And that that's what we go over in the program too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's cool. So you're doing left nostril here. So you're, you're closing off the right to enhance the left breathing, and that's going to go to the right brain and then vice versa. That's more creativity in the left brain, more analytical, more numbers. So then you may close off this nostril.
Josh Trent: So yeah, left, and we need both, you know, we're going up on a stage. It's like Lights, camera and action.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You're doing like six breaths. You don't like six breasts for each knows that we don't-
Josh Trent: No, what I would recommend is not counting sides because we don't want to, we don't want to only focus on logical, I would say just focus on doing those 60 press that we talked about. So in a relaxed position, stack your head, spine and shoulders in a line. And then do it for a timer of five minutes to set a timer on your phone. And don't worry about how many times you're doing it, just focus on thumb to index thumb to index and just roll that 40. Yeah, and that way, before you know it, you'll forget that you're even doing it. And then you'll go on to the stage or into the business meeting with a more relaxed calm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Now, you mentioned your morning routine. What does that look like? So you start your day? How does that all go?
Josh Trent: Okay, I'd love to since we're on this this morning, routine conversation. I know, you know, it's probably come up a ton on your show. Everybody's got their own approach, right. Yeah, I think that I think that if we really boil it down, most of us have about 10 to 20 minutes, minutes, let's just say 21 minutes because that's what we created as a gift to give to people which is out of 300 plus shows what are the what are the common threads that connect the the base practices for like the Tim Ferriss, the Dave Asprey, all the people like, what's the thing they're really doing, man? Well, I'll tell you what it's about six things. It's about six things. And one of them is making your bed. There's hydration, there's some specific movement, there's some specific breath and meditation and journaling. And those are the ones that make the biggest impact, no matter if you're spiritual or logical. So that's, that's what I do in my morning. And, and I want to give this to your audience because man, I know how much of a spectrum you cover on the show, like the way that you serve and the way that you give to people that follow you. I would love to be able to give to if that's okay. Absolutely. Well, it's wellnessforce.com/m21. It's morning 21. It's a great read. It's a free practice in there you guys can have it like it. distilled it down, it took me months to create an in there there is breathwork exercise for a week there is meditation, there is movement, it's all linked there for you to do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I didn't even know that was coming. That was perfect.
Josh Trent: Yeah, but here's the thing, like, we got the PDF, which is perfectly created for you. Are you gonna do it? You're gonna like that's the deciding factor. You know, there's a bridge between knowing and doing, man, as I'm sure you experienced with patience. And my heart goes out to all of us, because I'm there many times in my life all the time. Well, I know all the things. I have all the books, but am I doing it? Am I actually doing it? And there's so much to explore in the middle of knowing and doing. And sometimes it's just like, Hey, you don't have to do at all like there's not a pressure to incorporate all that. But maybe you read it, you go through it and you just pick one thing that resonates and then you apply that and then maybe you get some momentum and then that inspires you to go back and maybe stack one more thing into the routine and the momentum. Yeah, momentum is the hardest when we're starting God. It's like somebody who's Let's say they're they're overweight, like, like maybe 20%, more body fat 22. And they're in a place where they're broke financially, and then their relationships aren't working. I've been there, my friends, I've been there multiple times.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You don't know where to start, you get overwhelmed. And then analysis leads to paralysis. You're like, man, there's so many things I could do. But I just can't do any of it. Because I just can't make up my mind.
Josh Trent: Can we go there? So yeah, we're in that place? What do we do? What is the very first thing that we do? I think, I know, from my own experience, it's doing some type of state change. Because the reality is if we don't know what to do, but we know we don't want this, then we must allow ourselves to do something different so that we can feel and be you know, there's this paradigm that people talk about in personal development. And it's be do have, you know, I'm gonna be the type of doctor that cares about my patients are the type of podcaster that cares about information. I'm just going to be that first record. garlis of what diploma I have on the wall or how many books or interviews I've done, then I'm going to do the things that someone with my qualities, the way of being that I'm that I'm embodying is actually going to do, I'm going to have great conversations, I'm going to go for a walk, I'm going to do my breathing, I'm going to drink clean water, I'm going to have loving conversations, I'm going to admit when I'm wrong, I'm going to allow my ego to dissolve, then I go into the having, because this is what people get backwards, man, everybody wants to have money. If I have money, I'll be happy. If I have a wife, I'll be happy. If I have a husband, I'll be happy. It's frickin backwards. It's being doing and having. So this relates to our conversation of you know, where do I start? You start by taking a deep breath. Sometimes that's all you get. Sometimes all you have is a deep breath. You know, you get struck down to your knees with a financial loss or you lose a daughter or a son, or you go through adversity and you might find yourself on your knees, honestly just breathing and just praying to spirit for something. So that's what happens to all of us at certain points in life and just in life. We respond, man, how we, how we respond is everything. Because with our, with our tools for state change that allows us to, to go into the next moment with something that's actually going to be good for us. But if we don't have tools and we're not trained, then we're going to seek addictions, we're going to seek devices, we're gonna hang out with people that that validate our story of being a victim. So all this stuff either leads us towards love or leads us towards fear.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, 100%. And I think when you're in that place, just starting to think about what it is you want, and starting to listen to people that have what it is you want kind of starts to get the Beingness motivated. And if you're having a hard time getting out of the gates, that's where reaching out to someone that's kind of walk with people on that journey increases your chance of success. And so those are the kind of I do agree to be the being part's really important. Because if people just do and they don't have ever really thought about it, their chances of failure increases. And then also if they fail, they may not jump back on the And again, right, so then it creates a level of sustainability, where you're just, you're just you're more supported. And you've kind of looked at best practices. So your success rate goes up.
Josh Trent: That's powerful man. Because you know what I was thinking about when you're sharing that was, yeah, it's the being that most people have trouble with. And I think what really the most people have trouble with is too many of us have way too much pride. I'll speak for myself. Too many of us have a lot of pride and that pride. It's almost like a veil that only allows people to see what we want them to see. And then the backside of that we're struggling with alcohol. We're struggling with marijuana, we're struggling with porn, we're struggling with food or shopping, fill in the blank, man. You know, the ego loves to put to hold things in the dark. So what happens is, is when we're not articulate, and we can't be truthful about what's really going on, it leads us down this path of disconnection and the path of disconnection is what yields disease. So really, really what we're talking about and I love to go deep on all these answers, because that's where deep Humans? Is that where either being honest or not.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%? That makes a lot of sense. Now, question for you is, how long is being too much meaning like, if you're just sitting in as being state, and you're not ever moving to the action state, when is just sitting in the being just too long, like, wow, that's gonna be pulling the trigger?
Josh Trent: That's a really good question. You know, god that's so unique for everyone. Because I would say this, I think I think the answer to your question is, it depends. And with the caveat of everyone knows when what they're doing, or how they're being is not worth it anymore. Right. And for some people that might take weeks or months or years, but what what makes something worth it if you even look at the definition of worthy ness, if we feel worthy, and we have love, self love practices, and we actually energetically and we embody the fact that we are loved We are truly loved, then that's going to allow us to shift out of states of unworthiness. way faster. I call them cycles of recommitment. So when I work with people, I walk them through inventories of, alright, you've made a mistake, and that's fine. Is it actually a mistake? Or is it just a lesson? Is it just something that took you off your path for a brief moment to give you the contrast of energetically, emotionally, whatever it is a result that you don't like, if you're in a crappy spot, and you don't like how you feel or you don't like, what's going on? Can you see that as a gift? And can you see that as something that's directing you back to what you do? And so the answer to your question is that it always depends, but I think that the real barometer of success there is, am I experiencing a life that is giving me joy? That is something that I'm that I'm in enjoyment of that I that I like, do I like my life? Or are there certain parts of my life that are that are in the background that I know I'm in the process of change, so If someone's in a place where they're really stuck, and they feel like Damn, I'm depressed, I'm sad, I'm overweight, whatever it is, I would say allow yourself to feel it. Allow yours. It's the opposite of what is taught out there. Most people say like, Oh, go out for a walk, you know, change your state right away. I'm Yes, I'm saying change your state. But only change your state when you've gotten the gift of your discomfort. Get the gift of your discomfort before you change your state because if you change your state without unpacking the gift, you're going to go right back in that the cycle of recommitment is going to get even longer and longer. What we're looking for is to recommit to your practices of health in a shorter timeframe over and over and over again so that the cycles of recommitment get smaller and smaller and smaller.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And when I'm interacting with patients, I'm always looking at what their chief issues are. I understand their timeline of how we got to this point. So make sense from a root cause perspective how we got here, and then what do we want to be do or have that the symptoms that these health issues are broken? And you're having and then once they understand what they want to be, do or have, and we understand that the energy is preventing them from going out and doing that or their pain or their digestive issues or preventing them from going out and achieving or doing or being whatever that is. Now I can create leverage for them to change because now they understand, hey, eating this type of food or sleeping like this or doing this kind of movement isn't about doing that unto itself. It's about moving the physiology in a direction that allows you to be do or have these things over here that we talked about.
Josh Trent: I love these said leverage the word leverage, that is so powerful man, because you know what the greatest leverage is? It's either pain or pleasure. Like I have a friend who I just met actually. And he came to me I was I was giving him a gift. I was giving him some some green juice. And he was like, Yeah, I just found that I have cancer. Hmm. And and it rocked my world because I didn't expect it. You know, I'm here. I'm just giving somebody a gift and like, I just don't have cancer. But you know what I've seen, I've seen his entire world shift. Now. He's hanging out. With community now he's being more active. Now he's looking into Wim Hof. Now he's, he's, disease is sometimes the biggest lever that we all need. Yep. And disease is a reminder of the path back home. So we're all going home eventually. And we're gonna leave this physical planet, man. But before we do so, like what are the lessons that we are interested in learning? And I think when I've caught myself to where I've been like, why does cancer even happen? Why does this even happen? Why are people born? Why, why, why, why, why? And the more I would ask that why, specifically in psychedelic journeys, the more I would hear back that you don't get to know because that's honoring the mystery. We're in a big mystery here. So part of that mystery is is honoring the decisions that we make and accepting the fact that sometimes people get sick. Sometimes people get disease, sometimes people get cancer, but we also know that that in those situations, how they respond to it, and what it actually means for their life to be more connected. Did the community be more connected to themselves? Sometimes that's the biggest leverage that's that's ever needed. You know? So leverage is a big one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I totally agree. Is there anything else you want to leave the listeners here today with Josh?
Josh Trent: Yeah, I would just say that we all get in times where we feel low. I've had mental health issues in the past. And I think we're, as we step into May, you know, May is this National Mental Health Awareness Month, which is fine. But we get to be aware of it all the time. Because the majority of people that are having trouble with wellness, which is really the core of your show, you know, how do we live our life? Well, what's our well being looked like? It starts with a decision we make, and the decision we make is, hey, Justin, hey, Josh, hey, person who's with us. I love you. And just feel the resistance. They're even telling yourself that you're loved even understanding that you could be loved. That's the big one. And it's the thing that a lot of people don't talk about because it's kind of like Whoo, let's be honest, it's kind of woowoo to talk about self love. But it has a scientific and pragmatic meaning to our nervous system, to our mental health to our well being, that can't always be quantified. You know, science and spirituality are at odds for a reason. And it's because we're evolving as a species to understand that we've always been loved. So, I think that that's the biggest path I want to leave people with is if you're gonna do one thing from this entire conversation, take a deep breath, take loving ownership of your state, and really do the work, do the work so that you can be the type of person that has the things that are centered around self love.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that that makes so much sense. And I always kind of have the mindset is you have to be the one to pat yourself on the back a lot because there are a lot of times you're going to be cleaning the dishes, doing some chores, taking out the garbage is doing the obligations of life, and there's not going to be a crowd watching you or your spouse is going to be watching you the whole time to be able to give you a pass. The back saying great job taking out that garbage. Hey, thanks for putting away the dishes. It's not gonna happen. So you kind of have to be there being like, wow, you did a really good job making your bed this morning. You know, you did a really good job eating that great organic food for breakfast, especially when the doughnuts were over there in the office instead, right? So you kind of have to be the one catching yourself doing all these things and kind of giving yourself that, you know, silent pat on the back, or even going into the bathroom and looking at yourself in the mirror and giving yourself some praise or some affirmations for doing the right thing.
Josh Trent: Yeah, when's the last time that we did that? You know, let that land for a moment. was the last time you actually did what Justin said. You know, it's been a while this is your reminder, this is your loving reminder. So I love that man.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I think also that takes it takes away from you needing to plug into other people to get that because a lot of times if you plug into people to get it number one, they have a lot of control over you. And if you plug into the wrong people, they may they may manipulate you with that. And so the more you unplug from others You kind of plug into yourself a little bit more, what it gives you the control, but to it gives you the ability to have that that that that lovingness reflected back inside of you for all the good things that you do.
Josh Trent: Man, I've enjoyed this conversation immensely. And I know that if somebody is in that state where they feel stuck, if you listen to this twice, or three times, it's gonna help shift you. So it's an honor, man.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I really appreciate it. And you probably your podcast is Wellness Force?
Josh Trent: Wellness Force Radio, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wellness Force radio. Excellent. Is that wellnessforceradio.com?
Josh Trent: No, it's WellnessForce.com. And the reason the reason we named it that is back in 2010. I was just like, what am I doing in health and fitness because I had 10 years as a trainer, and I realized that fitness was the gateway to wellness and we're all born with this force inside of us. Everybody's born with a wellness force, no matter who you are, what you're up to. It's just tapping into that. It's allowing that to flow.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I appreciate it. You're in my podcast queue. You have some excellent guests. So anyone listening feel free head over to WellnessForce.com, and then how do they get access to the sleep course you mentioned again, I'm sorry that we had the morning routine course. And then you also the breathing course.
Josh Trent: Yeah. So I mean, gosh, it's a part of everything. So I love that you said sleep and breathing, wellnessforce.com/m21. That's morning 21. In that guide is a beautiful easy step by step pathway to get access to the breathe program and the breathe program is really about using breath for stress reduction and designing life for your own personal well being. So those two things are linked at wellnessforce.com/m21.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Very good, Josh. Really appreciate it. Man. love to have you back soon. It was a pleasure chatting with you and have an awesome day, man.
Josh Trent: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.
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