In this podcast episode, Dr. J and Rob Edwards from Heritage Health delve into the complex world of probiotics, specifically addressing the phenomenon of probiotic intolerance and its associated side effects. Drawing from extensive experience working with over 5,000 patients, Rob emphasizes the importance of maintaining a balance of good and bad bacteria in the gut. He discusses various strains of beneficial bacteria, such as bifidobacteria and lactobacillus, and explains how factors like antibiotic use, exposure to glyphosate in conventional foods, and processed diets can disrupt gut health. The conversation highlights the role of histamine in the body and how an overload can lead to adverse reactions when consuming probiotics or probiotic-rich foods. The episode also underscores the need to address underlying gut issues, such as inflammation and the gut lining’s integrity, before supplementing with probiotics. Overall, the discussion aims to educate listeners on the physiological and biochemical foundations of gut health, providing actionable insights for addressing probiotic-related concerns.
🌱 Understanding Probiotics: The podcast explores various strains of beneficial bacteria, emphasizing the importance of balancing gut flora for optimal health.
💊 Antibiotics and Gut Health: Rob discusses how past antibiotic use can lead to a disruption in gut bacteria, making individuals more susceptible to issues with probiotics.
🌾 Glyphosate Exposure: The conversation highlights the negative impact of glyphosate, commonly found in conventional foods, on gut microbiota.
🔬 Histamine Load: A significant focus is on histamine levels in the body and how they can lead to intolerance when consuming probiotics or fermented foods.
🥬 Importance of Gut Lining: The podcast stresses the necessity of maintaining gut lining integrity and how its damage can affect overall gut function.
💭 Symptoms of Intolerance: Listeners are educated on recognizing symptoms associated with probiotic intolerance, such as brain fog and skin reactions.
🌟 Natural Remedies: The discussion includes potential remedies for managing histamine overload and improving gut health before resorting to probiotics.
Why Good Bacteria Can Go Bad – Side Effects of Probiotics
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It's Dr. J in the house with Rob Edwards from heritagehealth. life. We're excited to chat on today's podcast. We're going to be talking about when good bacteria goes bad while you may be having probiotic intolerance or probiotic side effects. We're going to dive into this topic, you know, having, um, worked with patients, 5000 plus patients over the last 15 years.
Every now and then you see this and it's a real thing and so we're going to dive into what's happening under the hood. Take care. Physiologically and biochemically that's driving this and what you can do about it. And what does it mean? What is it telling you? Rob, welcome to the podcast, man. How you doing?
Rob Edwards: Yeah, good. Thanks for having me again. It's been a, it's been a while. It's been like, what, about a month and a half, two months? I've been working the fields of, uh, you know, helping out people getting healthy. And so we're, uh, I'm excited to dive into this, talk about some of the common things that go on with that.
And, uh, you know, I think one of the things to notice that it's always about balance inside of the body. And so, um, let's hop into this conversation. I'll let you lead the way, man. Dr. Justin
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Marchegiani Absolutely. So out of the gate, we have beneficial bacteria. These are probiotics, right? These are going to be your bifidobacter, your lactobacillus, your different subspecies, lactobacillus acidophilus, lassobacillus casei, plantarum, bifidobacterium, longus, etc, brevis, right?
Lactus, infantis. So you get your different, right? probiotic species, your bifido, your lacto, and then you'll have some even your spore based strains like your uh, bacillus clausii, coagulans like conformis, and then you'll even have like your kind of beneficial yeast that kind of get lumped in like a saccharomyces boulardii.
These are your big kind of three beneficial bacteria, probiotic, bifido, spore based. Right? Your bacillus, and then your saccharomyces. Those are what we call the big three probiotics. And when we deal with any type of gut issue, most people due to excess antibiotics exposure in the past when you were younger, or just having, you know, common cold issues with most cold issues are viral and you're given antibiotics doesn't really help, right?
You can go, you can go wrap your head around that one. Also we have exposure to conventional food like Roundup glyphosate that's originally padded in as an anti. And so if you're getting exposure to lots of glyphosate in conventional food, that can definitely negatively impact the gut bacteria balance.
And then obviously lots of acellular processed grains, processed flour, processed high fructose corn syrup is going to feed and tend to cause a lot of the dysbiotic bad bacteria to flourish. The bad bacteria may be in the camps of like Proteus and Morganella, Pseudomonas, Citrobacter, Klebsiella. These are all dysbiotic bacteria.
We all have them, but it's really when those levels get overgrown, that's where they become problematic. And these bacteria can produce things like histamine. They can produce, um, lipopolysaccharides or endotoxins. They can actually be stressful on the body. And a lot of times when people have issues with beneficial bacteria, it's because.
the histamine bucket and that patient is already very high because bad bacteria really increase that histamine. And then if you add in a beneficial probiotic or like a fermented food, that's going to be adding more to that histamine bucket. So it's not the fact that the probiotics, the issue is that your histamine bucket and a lot of times can be Already full.
Rob Edwards: Yeah, and histamines like a big big deal other sort of like probiotic probiotic foods, right? So like the sauerkraut or the kimchi? Kombucha is key for those that are also can cause some some issues with that as well. But yeah, it's it's um, It's you know the gut is oftentimes a tricky a tricky subject for for a lot of people as we kind of try to help those things out and Prevalently people think I just take a probiotic and I'm gonna be good to go.
Yeah, but you know, you follow down the pathway of the gut, like what do we look at first, second, third, fourth, you know, depending on, on what's going on. And sometimes people can miss things with gut health. And so that, that's another big, big piece of it. Like, for example, if you got indigestion consistently, maybe it's tearing up your, your, uh, your, your pipeways.
And if we have that inflammation there, we need to take care of that first and foremost, before we start looking down further into the gut. Dr.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Justin Marchegiani Now, here's the deal. Most people can benefit. Like, let's say you have a little bit of like tummy upset or your gut feels a little bit inflamed.
Probiotics can be very, very helpful. naturally anti inflammatory. I'd much rather have someone So, like from like an acute palliative perspective, using probiotics to kind of help with inflammation than taking NSAIDs or taking acid blockers because those medic medications are actually gonna impact gut lining, uh, liver health, and acid blockers are gonna impact digestion and absorption.
So, if we're doing things acutely, I I must rather have people use probiotics because they can help with inflammation, but if you're having side effects, what does that mean? I want people to think like one step ahead of what that actually means and then what can you do about it. Once you understand. the physiology and the biochemistry, symptoms go downstream from physiology and biochemistry.
When things aren't functioning optimally with the biochem and the physiology, then we have side effects with bloating, acid reflux, constipation, motility, soft stools, malabsorption, all those things spiral from that.
Rob Edwards: And even like the D. A. O. Like in the crypt cycle. So if you have a breakdown in the gut lining, you're not producing enough D.
What kind of damage has been done to the gut? Can the gut still produce the AO? Can it still produce all the things that it needs to produce to break down histamines in the first place? And, you know, or is it being sort of, um, overstressed? And if you have over overstressed gut, then we're going to start to have those histamine responses reactions.
Eventually those things get into the bloodstream and you can have brain fog and skin issues and all these other things kind of present them themselves as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, 100%. Now, when we have histamine, so histamine is a valid reason why you may have probiotic intolerance. So how do we know you have some fermented, some kimchi, some sauerkraut, maybe you have some kombucha, maybe you have some fermented pickles, you start to get brain foggy, you start to get itchy hives, start to get maybe headaches, these are all can be very, you know, common, let's just say high histamine symptoms.
And so histamine Maybe you start to notice it also with bacon. Maybe you notice it with more citrus based foods. So I always say, look at your high histamine foods, challenge it. How do you feel? If you notice those issues, you probably could be a probiotic intolerant, probiotic side effect person. If we add in a good probiotic, that could potentially be a problem.
Now in my line, we have the probioflora, which is kind of the bifidobacter then we have the sacroflora, which is gonna be the saccharomyces. These are our big two, and then we'll add in the bacillus as needed as well. Now, when we have a lot of dysbiotic bacteria, that histamine bucket is full. So any beneficial bacteria could put us over the top.
Fermented food could put us over the top. Maybe we have dysbiotic bacteria like Pseudomonas, Klebsiella, Citrobacteria, those could be producing histamine inside of our gut. So we're like a histamine producing machine. And now we have histamine stimulation from allergens out in nature, different danders and pollens and, and grasses and such.
But now maybe let's say we have some mold issues. in the house or mold issues outside from just, you know, nature naturally decaying, right? Plants and things and leaves decaying. But let's say we have maybe some mold damage from a leak. Now those things put our histamine bucket super high. Like you could just have a mold issue, you're living in a moldy house or apartment, that could be enough to fill your histamine bucket.
And now you're having headaches, brain fog, fatigue, skin issues. And then now you're super sensitive with the food, right? And so it can comes in many shape and sizes. When that probiotic intolerance happens. I want people to think deeper. What are the underlying causes why it could be? Now, we could definitely throw in some DAO and we could talk about, you know, natural things that we can do to kind of degranulate histamine, but I'll let you kind of comment first.
Rob Edwards: No, I think that's absolutely true. And that's more like the palliative, right? Like it's not going to solve the problem, but it at least gives some relief in terms of that. But yeah, I think, you know, we talked about the gut. Sometimes it's complex with regards to that. And what Justin is talking about is this histamine bucket.
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