In this video, Dr. Justin and Daniel Hill discuss addressing past traumas and emotional stress beyond conventional talk therapy. They emphasize the importance of addressing the psychological and emotional aspects of trauma. Daniel, a clinical hypnotherapist, explains that while talk therapy can help understand and create awareness around an issue, it may not be enough to resolve it entirely. Techniques such as tapping and the emotional freedom technique (EFT) can help release blockages and restore emotional well-being.
They highlight the importance of adaptability and emotional mastery in overcoming traumas and stressors in life. They provide an example of a person experiencing fear and anxiety after a car accident, explaining how conventional therapy might not help them fully overcome their concerns. Instead, they suggest using techniques like EFT to help reduce anxiety and create a sense of peace. This approach allows individuals to better adapt to life's challenges and achieve emotional balance.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
00:58 – Introduction
02:37 – Tapping Technique
08:47 – Therapy Walkthrough
16:50 – 5 Stages of Grief
19:59 – NLP Neurolinguistic Programming
27:55 – Neuroplasticity
39:56 – Releasing Trauma
46:35 – Takeaways
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, guys! Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Really excited for today's podcast. I got Daniel Hill back on the podcast, new and improved audio so we're really excited to talk about ways to release and address previous trauma, past trauma. There's gonna be a lot of tools right?
Your conventional ways of dealing with it is talk therapy for years and years and years which may be fine to help address and kind of wrap your head around what's going on in your life but we want additional tools that are going to try to get to the root cause. Excited to have Daniel back! Daniel, how are we doing today?
Daniel Hill: I'm very good thank you! It's a wet day in England, overcast, but you know, I’m in good spirits, always good to talk to you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, very cool and then we put your coordinates in your link down below here. If you guys want to reach out, your sites down but hopefully be back up soon, but we have a schedule link if someone wants to do a discovery call with you to reach out to see if you're a good fit to kind of help with some of these tools and kind of address some of these past trauma.
We'll put a link down below people can reach out, so that's there for you all as we go. So, Daniel, first off kind of, tell me like how you get to this place? Where you're like, ‘“Hey the conventional talk therapy, type of ways to address trauma and emotional stress aren't working.” What made you look for a better mousetrap, so to speak, to address these issues?
Daniel Hill: Because I'd like, I wish to change my own life first and foremost. It was, I was looking to grow and expand and move beyond limitations that psychological healing hadn't been able to address. So I started to go deeply into the unconscious. The first port of call was hypnosis and I was fascinated about hypnotism and then hypnotherapy. I'm a clinical hypnotherapist.
And then I just went deeper and deeper and there are so many different tools out there and really my nature is a questioner and I'm an investigator and so I just kept discovering more and more things that you can continue to discover. So I'm a connoisseur of all different things that improve our emotional well-being where we have traditional talk therapy is about psychological well-being.
And that's an important part, I still do that part! It's a necessary part in my work. But we're equally addressing the unconscious with the emotional aspects and I know you've done podcasts before on tapping with, I can't remember his name now, yeah! You've talked about the tapping technique anyway, haven't you?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep! Talked about the EFT, the different tapping techniques yep that's correct.
Daniel Hill: So, you, you've got an understanding, I know that Dr. J does a little of this from time to time and recognizes that you know you don't have to do the whole form of tapping. You can just find certain tapping points like for example, if everybody is on this podcast is watching, and the ones on YouTube after, and all the other social media parts. Just start tapping this point, just start tapping this point, just one point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we have these different meridian points essentially and then energy kind of flows through these different meridian points. These are the same kind of meridian points that an acupuncturist may put a needle into, and essentially, we have energy flow going through our body. Whether it's, whether we talk, call it our nervous system, whether we call it chakras, whatever terminology.
We recognize there's some kind of energy, whether it's blood flow or nervous system energy, and essentially, when there's stress or trauma, sometimes that flow gets disrupted correct? And so, we're trying to almost smooth it out.
Daniel Hill: Absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is that the kind of thinking of that?
Daniel Hill: Absolutely, it's releasing. I saw an acupuncturist all the way back in the late 90s and he talked about getting the whole system to be in flow again and we have blockages when we get afraid, or when we feel disrespected by someone, or we get angry about certain things. It's okay to have emotions like this, it's okay to be afraid, it's okay to get angry but it's whether that emotion stays there. And I like what you've said throughout the years which is about closing a loop.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah!
Daniel Hill: Am I correct in that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah!
Daniel Hill: Why don't we close the loop? What's the problem? That anger shouldn't be going on and on and on and on. That fear shouldn't be going on and on and on and on. And when we are struggling in life, it's because it's like that. Now I know we've got outward stresses in life, everybody has, but equally, we can use these tools in order to grow and to be able to help to adapt to life because life is constantly changing, like we're constantly changing.
So these tools will help us have more emotional mastery so we're not in those completely overwhelmed states all of the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let's talk about just your conventional talk therapy. Where is that helpful? I mean, I look at it as like conventional talk therapy is helpful if someone has some issues or trauma that has happened to them, and they're just trying to understand it from a conscious perspective. Maybe there's, maybe they have some poor habits, and they're trying to talk and say, “Hey, what can I do to bring in new habits in my life to help address whatever is going on?”
Maybe they're running to drugs. Maybe they're running to risky behaviors, right? Maybe they're doing a lot of things that they know aren't good but they're trying to get new habits in. I think that can be helpful to have and to create an awareness. Obviously, sometimes you're self-sabotage that can disrupt a lot of these habits, and we can talk about that down the road. When do you find talk therapy helpful? And then, when do you hit a wall with it?
Daniel Hill: It's a very good question, well, when I'm doing a consult, I have to talk to the potential client beforehand, and the first few sessions will probably, will do a mix of both. Because you've got to address the psychological and the emotional so, we're talking about thoughts, which is the psychological part, and feelings, which is the emotional part. When I'm working with people I just, I don't have a set pattern of working, it depends everybody's different.
There's a famous doctor, and I can't remember his name, but he said, “I never treat a disease, I treat a patient, or I treat a person.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, yep!
Daniel Hill: And so I'm the same, when I, anybody comes to see me regardless of whatever label they've been given, I'm working with them in order to help them to grow. So, I think the wall will be when I've occasionally picked up clients who've been, they might even still be in Psychotherapy. Like I've had four years of Psychotherapy, and I don't want to stop going, but what is it that you do and how can you help me and that's because they can't, there was this, there was somebody I saw, who was actually they became an EFT practitioner.
They trained as a psychotherapist and she summed it up in as much as she said, “I can help somebody in one session using something like EFT, which would usually have taken me 10 sessions in Psychotherapy.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah! Yeah! I mean, I look at conscious kind of talk therapy part of the benefit is a lot of people just bundle stuff up and just the idea of talking about it and bringing it out does something. There is, it is cathartic. But okay, now you've done that three, five, ten times, yours continue to talk about the same issue, is there a pattern? Is there a habit the in your life you have to neutralize? Okay, no, but you're still talking about it, still bothering you.
Now we got to dig in deeper because there's probably some kind of subconscious, kind of release. I mean I look at it like, it makes sense, our nervous system is always trying to see patterns like, if you live next to a forest, this is hundreds of years ago. And the neighborhood kid got killed by a bear in that forest, you're probably going to be walking by that forest with lots of anxiety, or you may even not walk there because your nervous system is linked up “death in that forest”.
So it makes sense why there would be anxiety because your body's trying to keep your nervous system on high alert, so that doesn't happen to you because we're geared for survival. But now let's kind of prime that into I got in a car accident, I had a significant breakup with a spouse, well what are you gonna do? Not get in your car again? Not have a relationship again? So that's where you have these traumas, like well now what am I going to do with that? Because I still want to get in my car and go to work or do what I have to do. So, can you kind of address that a little bit?
Daniel Hill: How can we, well you've dressed it almost brilliantly just by summing it up but, we can't stay put. Life is a, is a is a flow. Trauma will happen but we have to find ways of releasing those traumas.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let's pretend I have that issue. Let's just say I have a trauma. I get in a car accident right? I have this trauma, I go into my car, I come on the highway, I'm anxious, maybe it's a plane, maybe it's a car, right? My heart's going crazy, my blood pressure goes up, I'm feeling stressed, I'm breathing heavy, I'm coming to you for help. Walk me through that like, how does this interaction look?
Daniel Hill: Okay, so I would say in a zero to ten, how much does that affect you?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would say it's affecting me 8, 9 out of 10. Every time I go in a car, I go on a plane, I am so stressed to get to where I have to go. It makes me not want to get in my car again.
Daniel Hill: Absolutely, most clients who come to see me, I get them to design a piece list and that's a piece list of things in the past, also things in the present and maybe fears you've got in the future. And I would say put it down as a bullet point statement. I'm afraid of driving on the freeway for example. And then I'd say “Right, and then give that a number, zero to ten and it would be either a 10 or a 9.
Most people's piece list starts at that level and we just start using these techniques and these tools to bring that 9 or that 10, sometimes people will put down like 20 and say “No! It could only be 10!” “No no, no, It’s a 20 out of 10! I can assure you!” And we're using these tools to bring that number down whereas conventional talking therapy would be saying, “Okay, so what is it specifically that, you know, you're afraid of when you're going on the freeway?”
With these techniques you don't need to be consciously talking so much so you you can be tapping using something like EFT, or another technique called havening, there's another technique called EMDR. I do a version of that which is called EMIT – Eye Movement Integration Therapy. There are so many different things that you can use, and when you get your client to think about that thing that they are triggered by, so we're actually attempting to get you to go into your eight or a 9 or a 10 and use these techniques, it directly works on the hippocampus, on the amygdala, on some part of the deep midbrain, there's some part where the unconscious stores memory, and it opens it up, and it releases it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I noticed too when you do that right, you're essentially gonna engaging in talk therapy in a way and it's almost interesting if you, if you engage in that talk therapy, you're almost bringing that person to that 8 or 9 or 10 by just talking about it. So you can see to some certain degree when there is a trauma, sometimes just talking about it actually makes it worse if that's all you're doing right? Would you agree?
Daniel Hill: Yes, because you can that’s re-traumatize yourself if that number doesn't come down. But like you've said before which I agree with, sometimes you can just do talking sessions with me and you just tap at the same time. Because it will, you're going to be triggering yourself by going back thinking about the old event. And whilst you're tapping for example, using the EFT technique, you're naturally relaxing yourself at the same time. We don't fully understand how it works, people have got various theories on it and you know, I'm more of a driver than a mechanic so it's that, I just you know use these techniques and every single time.
I've been doing this now nearly 17 years in a small football stadium of clients. It works and you don't question why it works. It's just like “Okay it works! Yeah, this is the technique! This is how you use it, this is how you start.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I find, like you mentioned right? When I'm stressed and I feel the need, sometimes it's hard to go into visualization of what it is you want. You're just like you're pissed, you just want to vent out and I find if you're just venting, just going through and tapping on some of these points while just talking about it, I think is very helpful That's something that can be very good like if you're just on your own and you're talking to yourself about your boss just really ticked you off, you could just go into the bathroom and just tap for three to five minutes.
So I kind of like what you said right? You kind of get that gauge alright, “I'm at 8 out of 10, or 7 out of 10”, try to get you below 5 or below 3 or so, while you're processing it. Now there's another component though, I do feel the accountability aspect is so important so I know when you do a lot of this, there's a lot of incantation or just talking about the fact that I'm taking accountability and I accept myself. There's something cathartic and healing to that.
Daniel Hill: Absolutely, absolutely yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you talk more about that though? The accountability and the acceptance aspect and just accepting kind of where you're at in that space or time and healing.
Daniel Hill: Accountability works on every single level of your life. So why wouldn't it be any different to this work? It's the same doing what you do for a living and what you what you're putting in your body. It's the same level of accountability to understanding that “I can't live like this and I need to change and I'm prepared to change and I will do whatever it takes to change until I get that change.” It's as simple as that! It really is as simple as that.
I saw on, there's a little message up here, but in your, on Facebook and I was just going to address that briefly because it's kind of a similar thing. She's put “Let's talk about losing love when your parents die”. Well it's the same thing you know, I've worked with clients sometimes and they've never cried. They've never gone through an emotional healing regarding the loss of a parent and that emotion has been stored for six decades and you start working on it. You know, it might have been because their mother passed away and they were brought up by their great aunt and the great aunt went “Now that's enough of crying there, your mother's gone now.” and that's it.
Where's that emotion gonna go? It doesn't just disappear. And they do say time is a healer but I'm sorry I don't agree. There are emotions that need to come out and to be released so if you have lost your parents, you know I'm very sorry to hear that, but it's something that you have to realize that it's a process that you've got to go through. You know, that there is a great saying “The only way out is through.” The only way out is through. We can't go around this problem, we can't go under it or over it and pretend it's not there. Life is about this process of growth and transformation and losing loved ones is is part of that journey and if you can go through that and use some of these techniques but just the grieving process is so important.
It's, there's two great sayings also that “What you resist will persist” and “What you don't feel, you can't heal”. So by fully feeling these emotions and processing them, not just staying put, but processing them. Really going into it and feeling that you're moving through it, and you're going to the other side of it. Because through it, there's something on the other side of grief. There's a peace, on the other side of fear, there is a peace. On the other side of anger, there is a peace.
All of these emotions, everything that we go through, there's something on the other side and we must keep growing. We're either going upstream,we're clinging onto the riverbank or literally we are, there we go, or we are going downstream and we have to go downstream on every era in our life. It's about letting go and letting flow. That's how you move forward, that's how you grow, that's how you strengthen, that's how you start recognizing that life truly is abundant and it's okay. But mostly-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can we talk about the five stages of grief right? This just says divorce but you can ignore it, it's the same stages: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. When you're applying let's say tapping right or hypnosis or EMDR, I'd like you to kind of talk a little bit about that and just kind of give an example about that in a minute, but like where do you plug these techniques in when someone's going through this type of process? I mean obviously maybe denial, it may be a little bit hard. But how do you plug this into your treatment?
Daniel Hill: Yeah most people who are in Denial don't become clients. People who are in Anger who are angry they might well become clients. I probably pick clients up in the Bargaining stage where they've done a great deal, they're not in Denial anymore, they're not in Anger. This is actually the five stages of death and dying by Elizabeth Ross who was a brilliant Swiss-American psychotherapist in the 70s and 80s.
So when we get to a sort of more of a place of bargain, the bargaining is, the bargaining is this like, you know what I've talked about the riverbank, the bargaining is like “Okay I'm not going upstream anymore but I'm equally not going downstream and I'm gonna let go a little bit and then I might go upstream a bit but then I'm going to cling onto the riverbank.” So really it's what is that, it's what was it Denial? Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.
Well why do, why would depression be part of that? Well, depression is because we have to fully let go and we're going to get depressed because we don't want to fully let go but we have to fully go through that process and let go and let flow and go downstream because bargaining doesn't work. Bargaining will not work. The mind will try and do it but it won't work. We have to fully let go.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Makes sense. So I come into you right? We're talking about the flying trauma or the trauma in the car right? You have all these different techniques. We have NLP which is kind of there's you know some element of hypnosis in there. We have hypnosis in general. You have tapping techniques, EFT, different variations on that. You have EMDR doing the eye movement which a lot of that can be combined with EFT. There's havening, there's other types of techniques. How do you blend these techniques and can you kind of just give a brief overview of each technique and kind of why you've Incorporated it into your kind of healing plan with patients?
Daniel Hill: Okay the reason why is because they all work, and I also work very intuitively, so I will sense sometimes that one technique is not necessarily going to work very well for some people. Some people really don't like tapping, they really don't like doing it, and they will prefer doing other techniques so the tapping technique we've already talked, about again it releases stress. You're tapping on acupuncture points, which is acupressure points. And whilst doing that in over a period of time, a minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes, if you're doing it in a 90-minute session with me, my God, you, you're kind of really shift a lot of stuff.
The eye movements, that is slightly in the EFT technique, but that is a separate technique in itself. I don't know whether you know this or not, but Gary Craig, who was the co-creator of EFT which came from Thought Field Therapy, TFT from Dr Roger Callahan, had studied NLP and so there are little bits of NLP in EFT just in the way of the your word things. NLP stands for neuro-linguistic programming, so that is the language.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cause its, there's the part where you hit the gamut right? You hit the gamut and then you're doing the eyes right? So that's kind of bringing in a little bit of the EMDR right?
Daniel Hill: It's bringing in it, absolutely correct, absolutely. Looking down hard left, looking down hard right, rotate round one way, rotate the other way. With havening-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That getting different parts of the brain. People are like “Oh that's so weird!”, but what's that doing in the brain?
Daniel Hill: Right! Okay so what's it doing? So, all right, okay what I'd like you to do right now, everybody right now! What did you do last night at 9pm? Go back to that memory right! What did Dr. J just do? He went up here, look everyone, he went up here! That's right because memory, you what, you were seeing something. So this is memory is generally associated to this side. So we go “Oh what was I doing? What did I see? What did I hear? And what would what would happen if your front door was painted yellow?
I'm assuming you don't have the yellow front door, what would be that like most people, would go up here because they would see this is visually constructed. And what would it sound like if you became like Mickey Mouse you'd go to over here. So this is when you kind of sometimes pick up little cues and they think someone's lying, they're not telling me the whole truth. What is it that they're, what is it that they're saying? It doesn't really make a lot of sense. So that's probably because when they're telling you a story about a memory, they're looking more over here and constructing it. We should be looking more over here.
So this is why we use the eyes because when we're talking about memory, we're talking about this, but equally people will project fear into the future, and they might be seeing “Oh my goodness!” Well when, let's use the freeway for example, when I'm down the freeway, “Oh my God! Well what would happen in the freeway? If that happened, if the wheel came off, like it came off before?” And suddenly you've constructed this whole worst case scenario that doesn't exist but it does exist in your mind because you're up here it's in part of your unconsciousness projecting that in the future.
So really we should be rambling the memory and the, and the future. And we're doing it all together while we're deeply relaxing you and we're literally rewiring the brain while we're doing this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just talking about kind of eye movements and brain access, we know the left brain's kind of like more analytical, so right people that do behavioral stuff where they're reading people, the thought processes eyes going to the left or accessing the left brain, which is all about remembering, where the right brain's more creativity, so if you're telling a lie you, tend to go more to the right because you're trying to make up that story, versus access memory which is more analytical side. So people do that on the body language side to detect deceit. Left typically more true, right more creative. We're trying to figure out a lie if you will.
Daniel Hill: Which is why when we're doing the EFT technique we're humming for the creative right hand side of the brain and we're counting and we're doing, yeah counting backwards that's the left hand side.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you're constantly grabbing right and left side?
Daniel Hill: You're comp, you're lighting your brain up like a Christmas tree as much as you can. And so you're literally just thinking and getting the brain to really work. And I've got really creative, Justin knows this because I've been very creative with him over the years doing various things, and so like you know I'll do things like right uh I'd like you to, when we're doing the left or right hand side brain hemispheres, I'll be sort of saying okay think of food groups and
just start right now, they're gonna be talking about something really traumatizing and then I'll just go right? “Okay take a pause, right? What number are we at now?” And they might go “Okay I feel like at a 6, it's no longer a 9 but it's a 6.”
Excellent! Think of as many foods and just go up the alphabet- Apple, Banana, please continue. And they're like “What what am I doing?”, and suddenly the brain's lighting up in a completely different way where they're no longer talking about the trauma and they're suddenly thinking about a carrot, and a date, and an egg, and flour, and all these things, and then “Okay brilliant, well done!”, and now go back to the trauma, and we're going to talk about that again. And the brains kind of really in this slightly confused place which is what you want to do.
You want to confuse it, what it think. There's something from NLP, which they say, “We're always stuck in what we know”. Think about, think about that. We are always stuck in what we know. That's how we get stuck. Well why won't you move any further forward? And the unconscious will have come up with like, they we talk about the map, the map is not the territory. So the past doesn't equal the future, but the unconscious is always saying, “Well it does because it's the only thing that I've got reference to.”
So we're just really confusing it and we're really lighting it up in all different types of ways. And it's brilliant because sometimes people will go into the future and they'll go and do something that they were once afraid of and they'll report back to me and they're like “It was really strange. I went to go and do this thing that I'm normally afraid of and suddenly I started thinking about what the, what food group begins with F.”
“Ha ha! Brilliant! Okay and zero to ten, how afraid were you?” And they were like “There was virtually no anxiety! But I was thinking what is the food group with F?!” You know what, you know? Brilliant! Great! Because what you're doing with, when we have a trauma, when we have traumas. There's a, you would say route, we say route over here, so there's a route that goes from the trauma all the way down, all the way into a kind of neural net in order to then produce a response.
But what if we could just change those paths? So we have the, so there's the trauma response, but then it doesn't go down the same parts anymore. It goes down all these other different paths. And some of those paths go to peace, go to well-being, they go to empowerment, they go to, what's one of the things, it's flexibility. There's a saying that, well it's one of the famous things, oh it's, it will come back to me in a second, it's something to do, I say F, I don't know maybe, I'm struggling with the F in the food group. It'll come back to me, but the, it's a result, it wasn't F, it was our “Resourcelessness”.
There's a lot of human beings, why do we get stuck? Why do we struggle in life? We don't feel like we've got the resources. And a lot of that comes from childhood. Why does it come from childhood? Because this is where you didn't have to have trauma in your childhood but you might just have experienced limited, what I call limited belief conditioning. And then you come up to with just a resourcelessness as an adult, you just feel that you haven't got the resources.
Why? You didn't suffer trauma, we're not looking for big trauma, it's just perhaps sometimes there's limited belief conditioning, which is we learn to become resourceless, that we we haven't got the ability and it's it's a complete lie, total lie! But the brain is going “No, no, we don't have the resources, so let's not even try.” But like with what you said earlier about accountability, this is why you can recover from all different types of things. This is why you can get better. This is why you can become more confident and stronger because you need to have that accountability with yourself that you're not going to be this victim anymore. You're not going to struggle anymore. You're going to face this and the only way out is through, and everybody's brain is capable of this wonderful word.
Somebody's just put, oh got it, brilliant, good. “Neuroplasticity”! You all know what that is I'm sure?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah! Absolutely! That's the brain kind of rewiring pathways and so essentially, when we have trauma there's like, it's like you walk the path a certain way for 10 years, that path is clear and you're going in there, you're doing all these things to scatter that path and then create a new path that's more efficient.
Daniel Hill: Absolutely!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, the neuroplasticity is that new path being created.
Daniel Hill: Absolutely! What are we doing when we're healing? What are we doing when we're healing? The old neural pathways of dis-ease, think about the word disease, hyphenated, unease, got a bigger 130-dollar book there, it talks about all the unconscious things of illness. We’d literally gonna wire our brain for health, wire our brain for peace, wire our brain for resourceless, resource, what's the opposite of resourcelessness? Resourcefulness, thank you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, resourcefulness! Yes!
Daniel Hill: Resource-fullness, so we've become full of resources instead. We come up with options, we come up with-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Abundant amount of resources.
Daniel Hill: Correct! And then you can take action, and then you're gonna grow, then you're gonna move forward.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think a lot of it too, is just looking at whatever trauma that I have right here, in front of me. It's a healing potential, there's a growth behind it. Anytime the darkest happens in your life, the dawn is right behind, so you have to look at every opportunity as the ability to grow stronger. (Absolutely) The reason why you get strong in the gym is you actually you get a little bit weaker, and the next two days you get a little bit stronger.
And so if you look at it like that, and you don't take the victim path, you say “What can I do to get stronger?” Now in the physical realm, that maybe sleep, hydration, maybe good food nutrition right? But then in the emotional realm, if it's really provoking and really stirs up trauma, we have these different techniques, and that that's where it's excellent to have these in your emotional toolbox if you will.
Daniel Hill: Absolutely! Absolutely!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What's something that people can just do at home? Like obviously they have some issues they need a practitioner to kind of help guide them. One thing is just a little detour. I find people that are like “Oh I tried tapping before and it didn't really help.” The problem with that is I find you have this issue, you think this is the issue, but you really need someone to kind of guide you a little bit more back in time. Because this may be the issue that's causing this. And sometimes it's painful to explore these other deeper issues that could be, could be the root issue and sometimes you need someone to help guide that because intuitively I don't want to go there because it hurts a little bit to go there.
And so that's where I find sometimes “Hey, I have this outward manifestation that I think is the problem” but it may not really be the issue and sometimes you need some guidance to go through that and hit it from a lot of different angles.
Daniel Hill: Absolutely! What was the question with that? Forgive me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, I think it's just people that say “Well I did this once because I watched the YouTube video and that didn't work.”
Daniel Hill: All right, okay okay so, yeah, it's a good question. But I'll be honest, like when I first came into EFT, I had this amazing, my meditation and Tai Chi teacher just sort of said “Are you struggling with some anxiety?” I learned this technique on a beach. This is like the early 2000s, this was like you know cost her a lot of money to do back then. And I had a euphoric experience because, Justin knows like, when we, you know when you do tapping it's like “Whoa! You know you can yawn, you have tear ducts open sometimes, you're not crying.
Something's happening! It's like some energy is moving, this is a positive thing. And it was a great experience the first time but then I thought”Brilliant! This is going to be great! This is going to be easy! I'll just be using this technique and I'm gonna manifest anything I want, and I'm going to be moving forward, and it's going to be great!” Except, it wasn't as great when I worked but on myself because the unconscious does something called “Sabotage”.
Why does the unconscious sabotage? Because the unconscious doesn't want to go to these new places. The unconscious is-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not familiar! It's scary!
Daniel Hill: It's stuck in what it knows, and it, remember what I said before? We're always stuck in what we know. So when you're working with a practitioner, when you're working with someone, they're coaching you in order to be able to move forward to the outcome that you wish to be moving towards to. And they're going to hold you accountable, more even more so than yourself. So you've got a double dose if you're fully accountable and you're working with a coach who's helping you to become accountable.
It's like 200 accountability, you're gonna be moving further towards your outcome. I had experiences like this, but I would say deeply intuitively that I knew that it was an unconscious issue and I knew that I had to continue to address the unconscious. Nobody's issue is ever too big like literally, we've talked about this in the last few weeks about small steps. It may be that what you're trying to do, is use this technique on something that's, you know, an enormous issue, and you're you're able to maybe do five percent effect on what it is.
And then you can go well it doesn't work. You know it's five percent, I haven't got anywhere what you know, that was my experience when I started doing it by myself. And it wasn't until I worked with practitioners did I start getting real, sort of shifts forward, and I started then beginning to understand my brain, how to be able to move forward, how to coach myself, this is something that I do actually, which is I say, I coach people to coach themselves.
And so you can begin to, there's a good phrase which is, “Learn how to master your mind rather than have your mind master you.” (Right) Because the mind wants to master us all of the time, it's constantly trying to sort of be boss. (Makes sense) And so, yeah, I hope that explains it. I I do understand that when some people come into this, they'll go “Well I've tried it, it's no good.” And it may be that literally you're, you're so toxic with so much stuff that it it would be a bit like, I remember my acupuncturist once saying to me. He talked about, he said “I needed to drink more water.” And he said it's going to take a while for that to affect you. He said if you poured a glass a pint glass of water over a desert it will just run off.
(Yes) You know It's going to take a long time for that to really be saturated and it's the same with these kind of issues like the unconscious can be so protective of itself. You start doing these techniques and it will be like water off a ducks back. It's not getting really in there it's it's doing something to the surface, but it's not getting in there, and that's where we literally have to keep doing it and doing it and doing it and we're softening up that ground, we're suffering up that unconscious it's because it's really, it's got.
It's like a medieval castle. It's got the portcullis down it's like the drawbridge up. It's like going “No no no no no no! No one's getting in here! No one's getting in here! Not even EFTs getting in here!”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, well that's just the idea, that if you went to the gym and you're like “I want big biceps”, and you did one set a couple sets for one workout. You wouldn't be like “Hey I want rock solid, you know biceps!” There's got to be an expectation, there's only so much you can receive. And I kind of look at, I heard this analogy, years ago, it's the pickle analogy. Take a pickle jar, you empty it out. Go fill that pickle jar with rocks right? You fill it up to the brim. Is that full? Well you think it's full, but yeah it looks full. Okay now, now let's try pebbles after. (Yeah!) Get some pebbles in there. Yeah I can get some, okay cool! I can get more in there.
You think all right? Is it full now? Yes now it's full now. Try sand. Okay you get some sand in there. Okay great, is it full? Sure! Now it's 100% full. Nope! Now put some water in. And it's like so there's, (Just a little bit more) granularity, a little bit get to a higher level, each and every time. (Every time) Yeah, so I'm like, oh that makes a lot of sense.
Daniel Hill: But we all like this, I'm still working on myself, maybe I'm nearly 49. I'm still working on myself but it's okay you know. It's a wonderful process, it's like you look after yourself, it's like you don't, it just becomes part of a way of being. And yeah, it gets easier, like everything, it gets easier. You know, to start with, to begin with, it's like this, it's always going to feel, it's going to be painful, it's gonna be scary, it's gonna be daunting, but again, that's easier, it gets easier.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes a lot of sense. That's very good! So outside of that, we have a couple other techniques I wanted to hit. We kind of hit the EMDRs or anything else you want to highlight with that? I know you do a lot of stuff where you kind of created your own techniques, where you do like the clock face, or you really make those eyes move in a lot of different directions. Anything else you wanted to comment on regarding EMDR and kind of how you use that?
Daniel Hill: I don't think so, I use EMIT not EMDR but it's very very similar. (Okay) There's so many different techniques that you can use this, I will sometimes occasionally just if the issue is quite stuck, and everything that I've done isn't working. It's you can just start using the eye movements in a slightly different way and occasionally you'll get there. It's the same with that the tapping I've heard, if you go to sort of the nine gamut. Some people don't do that, they just do like, I don't know if anybody's done EFT but they'll do the EFT technique, and they'll finish where they tap under the arm. And they never go to the fingers, or they never go to here.
This is a central meridian, this is called the triple warmer at the San Jiao. San Jiao is it? But anyway, it's the nine-gamut triple warmer. And it's connected with the heart meridian and it's a central meridian so it's going to work on so many different areas. So it's in between the ring finger and the little finger, it doesn't matter which hand. And it's about two centimeters down you, take two fingers here and just tap here. And you can do that whilst using the eyes. If you go left you go right, you go down, you go down, you go up up, you can go all the way around one way, you can go all the way the other way, you can do a big Z, you can do a backwards Z, you could do a wave, you could go this way.
At some point, something shifts. You know the, like I said at the top of the call, these things are meant to be released. The unconscious actually wants to release them it's just afraid of doing so, but it's it's part of the necessary process. I don't know have you ever seen the, have you ever seen the, that you know how the ice caps are melting and the polar bears are are in less numbers than ever before. Well whether you agree with it or not, but there's a there's a video on YouTube you can see a, there are ranges and a helicopter and they're going after this polar bear with a dart gun. Have you seen that video?
(Nah) Okay, so the polar bear is an apex predator. There's no predators for the polar bear right? (Right) It's like the lion in the jungle, so there's no predators, the only predator is man. So there's no predators of that, I don't think guys go out there, or people go out there and kill polar bears. But for the first time it doesn't know the difference, it's not going to be shot, it's a dart gun. But just from the process of witnessing trauma being released, you can see this polar bear running away from this helicopter, they dart it and eventually relaxes and succumbs to the anesthetic. And you witness the polar bear shaking when it's starting to come to.
And they say it's okay, what it's doing now is releasing trauma and that's what we have all lost. We've lost this ability to discharge trauma as a species. They think they say the only animals that don't discharge trauma are human beings, zoo animals, and pets. So wild animals will have an instinctive way of discharging trauma, and that's the, there is something called trauma release exercises, TRE, and you can actually bring on the shaking part of the, which is you witnessed, which is what the polar bear is doing.
It's another part of releasing trauma. People who have, who have done microdoses of psychedelics will report that the tear ducts open and they and they shake sometimes as well. So that's part of the, a natural response to releasing trauma. Now we can do that-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: By the way, I just want to interject one thing here because you said something really important. People talk about like “Oh I did ketamine! Oh I did like Ayahuasca these different kinds of medicinal medicine and that just totally allowed me to release all my trauma.” How does that work? Is there something to that, I mean my big concern is, I would think you need someone to kind of guide you through that process because I think just taking a drug and it altering your brain say there has to be some guidance to address it. How do you split that? How does that work compared to what you're doing?
Daniel Hill: It's, okay so it's similar but again like you've said you're not going to be guided and the danger with that, and there is a danger with everything and so, the danger with that is that your unconscious is going to dump too much too soon.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Maybe some hallucination too right?
Daniel Hill: That you could, you could literally bring on depersonalization, all different types of things. It's like, it's like eating a meal too much too soon. It's like massive meal, I mean we've all got stuff, even I've got stuff and I've been working on myself for two and a half decades and I've got less stuff than I ever have but I've still got stuff and that's because I'm a human being, because I have gone through life, through this process where I haven't literally shaken off every trauma that I've ever experienced in my entire life. So-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How does that work though? Just kind of comparing what you're doing to someone that's like “Oh I'm gonna just do some ketamine. Oh I'm gonna do some eye wash and that's gonna resolve my trauma.” How does, what's the difference there? And can it be beneficial?
Daniel Hill: Did you say can it be beneficial? (Yeah!) I've, I I don't mind saying, I have done Ayahuasca and I've done Ayahuasca Retreats as well and I've witnessed people on that path who they've still got it, you've still got to do the inner work, you've still, it's not just sit taking something and then it's like, it's all gonna be done. You still have to I mean, we haven't even talked about the Enneagram, it's, it which is part psychological, it's part of psychological well-being that is it's to do with the mind. But it's not, it's not a one-stop shop that I'm just gonna take this and then everything's going to be better.
When I took Ayahuasca for example, I didn't have any release. What I experienced was a lot of peace. It could be really great with, for I mean people who've been addicted to marijuana, even just general smoking, drinking it can be it can be very helpful. I think you know, a lot of these things you've got to be I would, say I encourage people go to where you're drawn. Go to where you,r you feel a pull. Clients sometimes when they work with me they say that they're pulled to work with me. It was the same when I did all my studies. I was pulled to go and do my studies in London. Someone said am I in London. No, I'm not in London. I'm in the home of Led Zeppelin which is a little town called Kidderminster and that's, you can go and research that. But I see people-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, it's the same time zone, you're still 0-GMT correct?
Daniel Hill: Oh yeah, there we go okay. Yeah so, I'm online now like Dr. J, I don't see clients in person anymore, so everything's online, I work around the whole world. But yeah, it's not gonna, I was drawn to doing it and and it was beneficial, but it's not the only answer. There are so many different answers to experiencing greater psychological well-being and greater emotional well-being. It can be beneficial, if you're drawn to going to do it, it can be beneficial but you need to be aware that potentially, particularly if you're doing it unguided, you might buy off a lot.
That you know, and you you've then got to digest that. When you're doing this work it becomes more easily be, easily digestible. I often work in 6 month packages to 12 month packages, so that's like change is going to be occurring in that time frame. Also I met a lot of people with still an enormous amount of trauma, and sometimes they would take that things, something like this, even when they're guided, and it was such a thing for the unconscious to suddenly deal with. It was like they literally needed putting back together after doing it. It was an enormous thing. I think I was only drawn to it after I did a significant, and I mean, significant amount of inner work already, that I felt prepared to go to this next level and this next stage.
It's not for everybody, it's not the complete another answer. I, even the shaman for example, I was you know, was a nice guy but I wasn't thinking that's a highly evolved being. I still thought there was work there and work to do and he'd done a lot of ceremonies and a lot of things.I know psilocybin is now legal in a few states in America. I think it's, is it California and Colorado? I think, again you know, it's gonna work on the unconscious but you're talking you've got to do these things with a great deal of respect.
And again it's that we're coming back to that accountability. You know you're gonna go in to do something and you need to be prepared for what will happen, like when people are working with me, I fully respect what they're doing and what they're entering into. It's life-changing and it's difficult, and it's hard, and it's a process, but it's worth it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good, anything else? People listening can do at home, just a simple exercise that can be done on their own? (Okay so) Can address whatever’s going on with their life that's difficult?
Daniel Hill: Well, someone's put down here a meditation mindfulness. Again that's an enormous part of what it is that I do as well, it's important to still the mind. Anything that will help to still your mind practices that's still your mind. It's what actually got me into this in the first place. I was going to a meditation group and then the leader of the meditation group said talked about doing EFT. Things that ground you into your body as well, anything that you know, yoga or even cold water immersion therapy, could be really great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You can exercise too, (it's gratitude) just moving too.
Daniel Hill: Moving! Absolutely! Absolutely! It can be extremely you know, you know you can go for a fantastic walk in nature and just just getting the body moving. All these things that we kind of like you and I probably take for granted now, but other people you know, they might be working behind a desk for 8-9 hours a day, and then they go home in a car sitting down, and they go and sit on a sofa. Okay, well that, what part of you, have you got your heart rate over 100 beats per minute at all? 220? All these things you know, there's lots of things. There's lots of things, self-compassion someone's put up there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah that's very good, I like it. Well put the links down below if anyone wants to reach out to you Daniel, to have a discovery call, or kind of dive in deeper to kind of have someone guide them right? No one goes to hike Mount Everest on their own right? They're typically going to get some Sherpas and some local people to guide them along the way because there's a lot of obstacles, and then and then what do you do when you're halfway up and you're stuck right? So it's always good to have someone guide you in the process. That's done it hundreds of times or thousands of times with other people beforehand so I think that's always good.
Good to have that mindset we'll put the links and coordinates down below in the link description. Anything else Daniel you want to leave the listeners with. You want to give your social media coordinates, website coordinates.
Daniel Hill: Yeah, you can just put Daniel Hill Coaching. You'll find me on YouTube, you'll find me on Tiktok, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, all the usual suspects I'm out there. There's a lot, I've got hundreds of videos out there. I've been doing it a long, long time now started in 2006. So I'm a bit of a veteran these days. I've got the gray hair to prove it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would say just to leave the listeners with one last thing is really monitor your self-talk be a, make sure you would be a friend to your inner voice. In other words, most people would never be friends with someone that talk to them the same way they're inner voice did. Think of all the doubts and negativity your inner voice may have with you. Imagine that's someone on the outside of your life, a real person, if that real person talked down to you and was that negative to you, you'd probably be like “You're crossing my boundaries! I'm done! You're out of my life!” right?
But you would accept that inner voice. So make sure that inner voice is someone that you would be friends with if they were in your life in reality. Just keep that in mind so when that inner voice comes in make sure you're gonna be willing to be friends with that inner voice. (Yes!) I think its important. (Absolutely!) And its where a lot of the NLP stuff comes in because it really looks at the pictures that you're having in your mind.
Daniel Hill: Yes and realizing that everything even- (and that voice) even the bad voice has positive intention. We sort of think you know, this all this bad stuff is happening to us but this positive intention behind it. And a lot of that bad voices sabotage. It's wanting you to believe limitations because then you'll be safe it, doesn't want to expand and grow and all that because there's, it's taught with potential danger if we move beyond what we know. So I think that's really good. Something, I could summed up a phrase of “You cannot outperform the unconscious mind.”
If you think of every Sports person who has a limitation, and they they almost win a major, or you know they get the, was it The Yips in golf or something like, whatever. You know there's an unconscious sabotage pattern in there so you can't outperform it. So if we're not going to outperform it, what we're going to do? We're going to work with it. You have to work with it so that negative voice in the head you know, we've got to work with it and we have to integrate it. It's only a part that's afraid that feels unresourceful. We work with it, not against it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, awesome Daniel! Thanks so much! Really appreciate it. (Thank you!) All right guys, links down below if you want to reach out deeper. Again thanks Daniel for being on the show. Guys have a good day! Take care y'all!
https://calendly.com/danielhill21/30min?month=2023-04
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