Are you making these common paleo mistakes – Podcast #58

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand share valuable information about not burning fat when insulin is high and other important things to consider when reaching for Paleo treats. They share their favorite treats which are healthier compared to what others are snacking on with the least amount of sugar and the least amount of damaging stuff in them. Find out if you should eat meals before or after eating treats and gain some good knowledge about how you eat, when you eat, and what you should eat it with.. 

paleo_mistakesDr. Justin also explains the correlation between healthy skin and healthy gut during this interview. Also he talks about the difference between listening to discussions coming from a clinical foundation versus from a theoretical foundation. Also listen and discover how eating fats can be a good thing.

In this episode, topics include:

2:22 Big mistakes with a Paleo template

4:42 Paleo treats

10:45 Overuse of technology/Information overload

17:17 Dr. Justin’s take on Paleo mistakes

20:10 Eating fats and the low fat aspect

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Dr. J here.  Evan, what’s going on?

Evan Brand:  Not too much.  Lookin’ at the clouds.  Hopefully these things will break up.  I don’t know–don’t want winter to be here yet.  It’s–it’s freaking me out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I hear you.  What’s the weather up in Louisville?

Evan Brand:  Well, it was kinda rainy this morning.  I’d say it’s like mid-70s now.  It’s a little bit too cool to be August when we’re recording this.  So we’ll see what’s going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Nice.  Do you live up by that–the plant that makes all that–the baseball bats up there?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Louisville Sluggers?

Evan Brand:  Downtown.  Yeah, it’s maybe a 15-minute drive from here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s pretty cool.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it’s a neat place.  It’s something worth seeing at least once.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool.  Next time I come up to see you, I’ll have to check it out.

Evan Brand:  Sounds good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So what was your breakfast this morning?

Evan Brand:  Let’s see, I had some chicken.  I had a rotisserie chicken that I got last night and I did that with some broccoli.  So literally a dinner for breakfast and it was amazing though, I feel good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Nice.  Yeah, I did some coffee, MCT, and grass-fed butter unsalted, all blended up and I did 4 raw eggs, Rocky-style if you will.  They were great.

Evan Brand:  Did you put them in the blender?  And then–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh no!  That would destroy the coffee.

Evan Brand:  No, not in the coffee, no.  Like in a cup?  Or what–how?  What did you do?  You just open the eggs in a cup and then drink ‘em or did you like stir ‘em up or–?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s it.  Put ‘em right in the coffee mug, 4 in there, and just tip it high and drink it dry.  That’s it.

Evan Brand:  That’s great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it was good.  So I’m feeling good.  Again, like these are real easy meals to just kinda stabilize my blood sugar, have a good morning, get me ready so my brain’s ready to go.  Good fats, so I’m in a ketogenic type of state, relying on lots of ketones this morning.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, definitely good for the brain to get you not distracted, keep you focused.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  And we talked before the show, that we decided we were gonna talk about common Paleo mistakes, because we see lots of patients and you know, one of the main–one the main kind of approaches that we’re utilizing is a Paleo template.  And you notice how we didn’t say a diet, because diet kind of involves short-term strategy.  It’s kinda dogmatic, a lot of times it may not be sustainable and such.  So we’re really looking at a Paleo template.  So with that template in mind, what’s one of the big mistakes you see with a Paleo template with some of your patients, Evan?

Evan Brand:  Oh, gosh!  It’s the Paleo treats.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, yeah.

Evan Brand:  All the almond flour, coconut flour, the Paleo pancakes, Paleo waffles, Paleo bagels, Paleo bread.  It’s like that’s still processed refined carbs.  It’s still gonna be doing the same thing if not worse things to your blood sugar, because some of those alternative flour spike your blood sugar even more.  So I think that’s probably the number one starting place for me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, that makes sense.  Now I look at Paleo treats, they should be in your 10-20%.  So if you’re gonna be cheating a little bit in your 10-20%, that may be a better treat for you than going and having gluten or having a pizza with cheese and–and a whole bunch of flour in there.  So again depending on how sick you are, some of my severe autoimmune patients where they’re out for a couple of days or they have crazy symptoms, that treat may just may not be worth it.  So when you’re doing a treat, you gotta figure out, you know, like what’s your kryptonite?  And if your kryptonite like puts you on your knees for a couple of days and really affects your mood and how you perform, you may wanna just think about bypassing a treat like that.  But for myself, you know, my 10-20%, I will have like, you know, some coconut macaroons with some almond flour in there, but that’s in my 10-20%.  It’s maybe 2-3 x a week, typically it’s after I’ve eaten a meal so my blood sugar is already stabilized so I’m not creating a blood sugar rollercoaster and I’ve already eaten some really good meals that day.  We just gotta make sure it’s not part of a staple.  We don’t wanna say, “Well, hey, I’m on this Paleo kick, so this is gonna be part of my diet,” and it should not be part of the, kind of the core part of your diet.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I like how you said you’re blood sugar would be stabilized first because what I’ve seen when I’m looking at food journals is that people will just count the Paleo treat as a meal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Like they’ll get the sugar craving or they’ll get this high from the compounds in dark chocolate, say for example–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Evan Brand:  So they’ll just go nosh on dark chocolate and count that as a snack, but there’s nothing else really there to support that blood sugar, and then, you know, I’ve even done that to myself here now my blood sugar’s crashing and I feel worse than I ever did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  So like some of the things, like not all treats are created equal, right?  So I like the–the Hail Mary tarts, those are my fave.

Evan Brand:  Oh, my gosh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I like ‘em, but again if you look at them, right?  The chocolate one has I think 10 grams of carbs or sugar in it versus I think the lemon or the lime or the–the vanilla one has 28.  So just by looking at them, there’s a variation of like 2-3 times of sugar, depending on what flavor you choose.  So sometimes the flavors matter because you can get 2-3 times the amount of sugar.  Also chocolate for instance, I do like the 90% dark chocolate, GMO-free, you know, organic, all that good stuff, gluten-free.  But if you did the 70%, you get twice, maybe even 3 times the amount of sugar.  So you have to look at it from the perspective of, you know, how much sugar are you getting and is there a treat that you could cut down the amount of sugar 60 or 70%?  That may be a better option for you.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, the Miracle tarts.  Those are my–my favorite treats.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Fave.

Evan Brand:  Oh–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I heart them.

Evan Brand:  The almond butter one is the greatest one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.

Evan Brand:  It’s got the–it’s the raw almond butter inside.  If people haven’t checked them out, check ‘em out.  They’re at several different grocery stores.  They’re all over Texas because they’re out of Dallas.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, yeah.  Oh, they are, huh!  Yeah, that makes sense.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I love ‘em.  But some other treats that I’ll do is I’ll whip up some organic pasture-fed cream and I’ll just have that whipped up, maybe add 1 drop of Stevia in it and have it with some nice organic blueberries.  That’s a real nice treat or I’ll do some of the–

Evan Brand:  That does sound good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it’s really good.  And I’ll do the coconuts ice cream, the one with Stevia.  It’s got the blue top on and not the one with the _____.  So it’s only got a couple grams of sugar and we’ll do that, sometimes with some good organic food on top.  Those could be nice treats that aren’t gonna derail your blood sugar and just give you a whole bunch of extra sugar that may cause you to go to fat.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Because that sugar just pumps the insulin up which gets drive in to your triglycerides and your fat cells.

Evan Brand:  And you can’t burn fat when that insulin’s high, so if you’re constantly doing these Paleo snacks throughout the day or if it’s a habit, then that could explain why you’re “doing Paleo” and nothing’s changing.  That may be the little hidden piece of the puzzle you forgot to take a closer look at.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.  So like for my dark chocolate, I do the Endangered Species brand with the Cougar on it, the 88%.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And I’ll do the–the Lindt 90%.  Those are some good chocolate bars that I’ll do.  And I’ll do like 2 or 3 rows, you know, maybe a couple nights a week, but–

Evan Brand:  That’s nice of you.  Saving the–saving the lemur, the leopard.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Evan Brand:  I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know.

Evan Brand:  That’s a cool company.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know.  I wish they had more of them at the 88%.  Because a lot of the ones that have the flavors have just the more sugar in it.

Evan Brand:  Yup, it’s in like the 50s.  I’ve seen those with the orange and the others–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Evan Brand:  I don’t even know if I would like that one, but yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  What are some treats that you like?

Evan Brand:  Well, that Miracle Tart’s gotta be number one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Evan Brand:  Another treat that’s not even really a treat.  It’s just some people may laugh at it.  It’s just a–I’ll go to Whole Foods and just buy a big bag of organic walnuts and I’ll just throw those in a bowl and I’ll take just a little bit of spring water, just enough to get some stuff to stick to it and I’ll kinda mist that on to, you know, a small bowl of walnut and then I’ll just take some organic cinnamon powder and just sprinkle that over the walnuts and, I mean, just a handful of those is an incredible snack, and I feel so sa–satiated.  My blood sugar feels great after.  I don’t feel fatigued or like I’m gonna kill somebody if I don’t eat.  You know, that’s kinda my go-to nut if you will.  Pistachios are another one of my favorites, too, and I get them with the shells on so they’re actually doing the work.  If I got the pistachios that were already de-shelled, I think I would just eat the whole bag.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, that makes sense.  I also am a big fan of pork rinds.  Pork rinds are great.  They’re just basically pig’s skin that’s fried up, but I use the ones by US Wellness Meats and they’re great because they all come from pasture-fed pigs and just really good quality and they use good fats to cook them in and they’re like potato chips.  I get the barbecue ones and the salt ‘n pepper ones, and there’s just no junk in them and it feels like you’re having potato chips.

Evan Brand:  I ought to try them.  I’ve seen those online.  I’ve just never went through the process of ordering them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it.  Plus, you know, you’re getting pig skin so there’s a lot of nutrients in the skin that are actually gonna feed and help your skin, too.

Evan Brand:  Right, that’s cool.  Maybe that explains why your face is acne-free.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, that and also having a good clean gut.

Evan Brand: That’s true.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, the gut’s the mirror of the skin or the skin’s the mirror of the gut, right?  If you have skin that’s all messy, there’s probably some gut stuff going on that’s not too good.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then also one more thing I wanted to all in there, let’s see here–we talked about the pork rinds.  Yeah, so almond butter can be okay.  You just gotta figure out, you know, if you can handle it or not.  I will do some potato chips every now and then.  I’ll get the Boulder Canyon ones that are cooked in a really good quality fat.  Typically, I’ll do like the coconut oil or sometimes the avocado oil with a little bit of sea salt.  And we’ll do that with guacamole.

Evan Brand:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s because the guacamole’s got some good fat in there and it will help stabilize the blood sugar and I try to have a meal first.  So I try to like eat my meal whatever it is and then do that afterwards, that way my blood sugar is gonna be a little bit more stable and won’t go on a rollercoaster ride with the extra bit of carbs.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it does take a little bit of dedication to do that, and not just run and just grab the chips in a pinch because you’re hungry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  So I’m glad you’re making that distinction there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, and a lot of times it’s not just about what you eat, it’s how you eat it and when you eat it, and what you eat it with.  So alright, potato chips by itself can be more detailing.  If you add in the avocado or the guacamole, boom, now you have a good fat to stabilize the blood sugar and then you time it after your meal, it’s like, win, win, win!

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And I’ll even like just cook up some grass-fed meat and I’ll even just scoop up some of the grass-fed meat with the potato chip.

Evan Brand:  That sounds good.  Like ground–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, just–

Evan Brand:  Like you got ground beef?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Just ground up–just group up and I’ll just scoop it up and have that and you’re getting some fats and proteins along with it so your blood sugar is just gonna be just in a better place.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So what’s number two, Evan?  What’s the second biggest Paleo mistake you see?

Evan Brand:  Oh, gosh.  I would say the technology, man.  A lot of the Paleo crowd are super hooked in because they’re all listening to podcast like they are right now, so they’re always having something on, and I think I was probably one of the first people to talk about the blue light issue on my podcast back when I had the guy from Low Blue Lights on.  He’s in his late 80s.  This guy’s pushing 90 years old–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Evan Brand:  And he used to work at GE.  Anyway, he shed a lot of light on the link between blue light at nighttime and cancer and talked about these studies where third shift nurses had higher breast cancer incidents and like that, so I think people are still ignoring the importance of turning down the lights at nighttime, whether it’s in your home or your computer screen or your cellphone, not using any apps to take away the blue.  I think that’s a big issue because a lot of people have sleep issues, whether it’s staying asleep or falling asleep, one or the two.  I think some of that, not all, but some of that is rooted in our overuse of technology and a lot of people are just too tuned in and they don’t wanna shut off, and for me I have to be diligent turning off the WiFi, turning off the computer, getting out in nature as much as possible during both the work week and the weekend to try to de-stress from all that EMF.  I mean, I’ve measured large milliGauss readings from my laptop keyboard.  So I mean, I’ve even felt some weird tingly stuff in the hands before when I’m using my computer for too long, so sometimes I’ll switch over to like an external keyboard example that’s like a USB, like a little Logitech one, and that’s kind of helped mitigate some of that but I’m ranting here or going off on a tangent but in a nutshell, the technology issue is pretty big.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, because the technology, too, people are also getting access to a lot of different information.

Evan Brand:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   So I get my patients come in and let’s listen to lots of different podcasts and–and read lots of different blogs which is great.  It’s just really important that when you listen to things, you always have to use kind of reason and evidence and logic to make sense of things because a lot of people are out there trying to make their name and they’re trying to be very kinda nichy if you will about trying to say something that’s controversial so they can have people look at them more.  And that’s good and bad, if it–if it’s true, because it’s true, that’s great.  You know, it’d be controversial to talk about this stuff, it still is now, but you know, 10 years ago it would be super controversial because people are all low fat 10-20 years ago.  So talking about eating fat would have been like, man, it’s like total–you’re like the devil.  But today it’s a little more accepted even though it’s still not the mainstream because look at the food pyramid, right?  The foundation is still grains, but people have, you know, different perceptions because they’re getting so much information and it becomes paralyzing because–what do you believe?  So you gotta use reason and evidence, you gotta test it.  You gotta figure out what works.  Again, there’s not gonna be one absolute.  I think there’s gonna certain core things that run true.  Like some people may be able to tolerate grains better than others, but again, I think my opinion based on gluten sensitivity, people will always do better substituting grains for a healthier, more anti-inflammatory meal for instance, right?  So we gotta kinda figure out what those absolutes are and not get too confused by all the information that’s out there.  And don’t get paralyzed by the research because a lot of the research–research says things on both sides of the fence.  So you gotta be careful and step away from the research because they can be really confusing.  So I’m a big fan of just testing things, right?  Hear something, test it.  See if it works for you.  See if you see an improvement in how you look, feel and perform and then maybe add it to your routine.  So don’t get overwhelmed.  Don’t get, you know, paralyzed by all the extra info coming in.

Evan Brand:  I agree.  That’s a great point.  I just went over to a patient’s house I told you about on last Friday and she said, “Well, Even, I heard this from this podcast and I heard this from this podcast, and I heard–I read this out of this book,” and they have this whole list of stuff that they wanna go over where they’ve heard from other people that they should be doing it.  So whether it’s eating less vegetables, eating more vegetables, doing intermittent fasting, doing this, doing that, substituting this for that, and I just had to tell the lady.  I said, “Look, you need to calm down.”  I said–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  I said, “Feel how high your energy is vibrating now.  You’re like freaking out.”  I said, “Let’s just relax.  Let’s slow down and let’s focus on the basics and the foundations here.”  I said, “I promise all these little tweaks that people are selling to you and these programs, ‘Ooh, this is the intermittent fasting detox cleanse,’ you know, it’s like you don’t need that right now.  Let’s just, I mean, your blood sugar’s off the charts–”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  “Let’s start there.”  “Ooh, oh, okay, Evan.”  And it’s like a sigh of relief for them that they don’t have to freak out and have to look at every single 1000th of a millimeter variable.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I agree.  And also people listening to other people’s podcasts which is great but a lot of these people they aren’t clinicians.  They aren’t like doing stuff.  So it’s–it’s nice to talk about things that are hypothetical, but things that are clinical meaning things that practitioners and doctors are actually doing with their patients is gonna have ten times more value to me than things that are hypothetical.  So–

Evan Brand:  Yeah, if you think about, man.  Now that I’m–now that you mentioned that, I think what you and I are doing is very rare among all the–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  Other shows.  The other shows now which this isn’t to toot our own horns but it’s serious that I didn’t really look at it with that lens that you mentioned but 99% of the other shows out there, people that may be used to help people one on one, and they have–they’ve got out of the game and they just wanna sell programs or they wanna sell books or products or digital downloads or something because, you know, maybe they got overwhelmed, maybe they got burnt out or something, so now everything is turning into a combination of theory and marketing, and people are getting even more confused because they’re not getting the clinical evidence and the clinical information of what’s happening in our door, so to speak.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, totally agree with that.  And I think you gotta always look at information whether it’s a research article and if you hear something about whatever’s out there, you gotta try it.  You gotta see how you feel, see how it works for you, and then you know, take it or leave it.  But always kind of know what you’re listening to and know if it’s coming from a clinical foundation or if it’s coming from a theoretical foundation.

Evan Brand:  Right, yeah.  So that was a big number two.  But that’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That was.

Evan Brand:  I think we gave a good outline of it, which–which one for you?  I think I’m–I’m spent right now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I think number three, I mean, in the Paleosphere, there’s a couple of issues that happen with some of my patients that are coming in on a Paleo diet.  There–there are two.  I’m gonna kind of combine part three into two parts.  Number 1, my biggest concern is when people talk about healthy lean meats that drives me nuts.  Because if you read Weston A. Price, if you read some of the anthropological data, a lot of these tribes and a lot of you know societies, the muscle meats weren’t regarded as the highest quality meats.  It was more of the organ meats or the fattier cuts of meats had more of the nutrient density in there and they were more revered.  Like for instance, certain glandular meats were fed to females in the fertile season, so they would have higher levels of fertility so they could get pregnant and produce, you know, higher quality offspring.  So there as this reverence to glandulars.  There was this reverence to, you know, bone broth and bones and marrow and just fattier cuts of meat being very important and that the muscle meat was like, “Hey, this is kind of like the stuff we feed the animals so to speak.”  You know, it’s almost like the scraps and today it’s the opposite, right?  I go on US Wellness Meats, I look at their pet food blend and it’s got like kidneys and heart in there and liver, well, you know, everything’s being promoted at 90+% lean meat.  It’s like we gotta flip that switch.  We gotta flip that switch.  And also just a funny note, I actually bought some of their pet food and actually eat some of their pet food, and it’s actually human grade.  It’s–it’s spillover and they just take all the glandulars and they just grind it up and they sell it as pet food and I asked them.  I said, “You know, is there any problem with the pet food?”  They’re like, “No, we just take the glandulars and we just grind them up and we just market it as pet food because people don’t want it.  But it’s the same quality.  It comes from the same animal, the same grass-fed super clean animal.  There’s no difference in quality, it’s human grade.  They just market it as pet food because us humans don’t wanna touch the glandulars.”

Evan Brand:  Wow! That’s amazing.  Yeah, I mean, I guess it is a little bit scary for some people because it’s not perfectly–perfectly packaged with a label and the ingredient list, and it’s like, “Whoa!  What is this living thing?  It’s–it’s alive.  It’s a lot more alive than some of the other stuff that comes packaged and frozen and sealed and beautifully labeled and things like that.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so the first step people can do is just instead of chicken thighs–instead of chicken’s breasts, eat chicken thighs.  Keep the skin on there, right?  Get the grass-fed meat, get the 75 or 80%.  Keep the fat in there.  Take the fat and–and like just put it on your vegetables kinda like a topping.  That’s a really good step.  Take a–an ounce or two of liver and just like mix it in with your ground up grass-fed meat.  You won’t even know it’s there but you’ll get that extra bit of vitamin A and B12.

Evan Brand:  So what do you recommend, I mean, if you get like strip steak, like a grass-fed strip steak and you have that little strip of fat that goes along the side of it.  Or I mean, when people talk about fat, is that something you would cook and eat?  I mean, what do you do with that type of harder fatty tissue?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, it depends, right?  Like if we’re talking like, I do a lot of rib eyes or Delmonico’s and I’ll eat that fat up.  I’ll totally eat it and it’s great, but I try to make sure it’s–it’s grass-fed because a lot of toxins get stored in the fat of these animals.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So we wanna make sure that if we’re eating the good quality fat that we’re not getting fat that’s gonna have a whole bunch of toxins stored in it.  So making sure it’s organic, grass-fed, all that.  I mean, I’m still notorious though.  I go out to a really good steak house.  I get a–it may be grain finish so to speak and I’ll still eat some of the fat, but 90–you know, because of the flavor, because of the marbling and it’s dry age, but 90% of the time, we got about 30 lbs of rib eyes in our fridge that are all grass-fed.  I got 50 lbs of ground beef in my fridge that’s all grass-fed, 78%.  So we’ll do those majority of the time and we’ll do the rotisserie chickens with the skin on, and we’ll eat the thighs, we’ll eat the leg, we’ll, you know, eat the skin so we really try to eat the fattier cuts, the good cuts, and try to make sure the quality is there because that makes a huge difference.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, the skin is amazing.  That rotisserie chicken I was talking about, I mean, the skin, the way the seasonings kinda caramelized on there while it’s cooking, oh, gosh, and I haven’t eaten lunch yet, so it sounds even better right now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know, I’m getting hungry.  And I’d say the part–the part 2 on that will be just eating too low calorie.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, totally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I see people–yeah, like the have a diet that’s crap, right?  They have this grain-based, very inflammatory diet, and they switch over.  But because they aren’t making an equal substitute, because so much of their diet was just crap calories, they haven’t substituted enough of those calories for healthier foods, so they eventually get hungry.  So I tell patients, if you’re eating food and you’re not feeling full within 10 minutes after that food, and within 4-5 hours, you’re starving, you’re just not eating enough of that food and/or your digestive system just really isn’t working well because you weren’t  used to that much protein and fat, and now you gotta just up the HCL and enzymes to be able to break down that protein and fat, and you may even want to look a little deeper at maybe an infection going on that’s driving some of that impaired digestion.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, that’s a great point, and the Paleo diet or the template, whatever you want to call it, it’s pretty low carb in reality.  I mean, you can eat a–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It can be.  It can be.

Evan Brand:  You could eat a huge handful of broccoli and that may only be 50-60 calories.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.  And well, one thing, just to kinda piggyback on what you’re saying.  I think with the Paleo template, it can be high carb or low carb, and it can even be low fat, too.  I have some patients off the bat, before we’re supporting their gut because we’re waiting for a stool test to get done and we can’t add digestive support because it will cause the stool test to be off a little bit, we’ll actually do a low fat Paleo.  Not because low fat’s good but because their gallbladder is screwed and that’s all they can handle right now.  So we’ll even do a low fat Paleo, we’ll do a high carb, we’ll do a low carb.  We’ll do, you know, we’ll mix it up.  We’ll do a ketopaleo so we can mix it up and we have that latitude so when people think Paleo is just all meat, it’s like, man, you just don’t know what you’re talking about because I have some patients that are literally vegetarian or vegan and they’re trying to switch over to Paleo and we get them to do maybe–I negotiate in egg yolks and a little bit of salmon, so their diet’s maybe like 5% like meat, and then the other bit is all healthy starch–healthier carbs that are not gonna have all the inflammatory compounds like the legumes or the grains or you know, some of the other lectin-rich vegetables.  So they’re doing more of the non-starchy, good clean vegetables.  They’re doing some of the safer starches, they’re doing some of the cleaner fats, so like avocado oil or olive oil or coconut oil, right?  Things like that.  And they’re technically on a Paleo diet even though they’re like 95% vegan, but they’re eating such as small percent of meat, so you can’t tell me that a Paleo diet is all meat.  It’s just people trying to create an emotional attachments because they’re, you know, because they’re–they’re trying to appeal to someone’s emotion, right?  Killing animal is bad, therefore, Paleo diet is bad.  It’s just like the worse argument ever.  It’s because they really don’t know the diet to begin with and they don’t wanna have a–a conversation based off on reason and logic but you can have 95% vegetables and good clean carbohydrates that are plant-based and have a little bit of animal protein in there and avoid all the grains and crap and you can still be on track and I would say you’re still on a Paleo template.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, definitely.  Yeah.  The meat thing is–it’s gonna be controversial for probably at least another decade or so.  I mean, there’s so much emotional–emotional issues from the factory farms though that we haven’t talked people that these animals are happy.  They live a happy life.  This is what our ancestors ate.  This is how they thrived.  We don’t have to go back 100,000 years to look at those people.  We could just go back to even our grandparents who had farms that were eating food closer to the source and they were–they were much happier.  So it’s just a–a retraining process I guess.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, and also I always tell my–my vegan patients, “Don’t kid yourself,” right?  Don’t kid yourself that plants aren’t alive.  If you read Cleve Backster’s book, The Strange World, The Plants, they hook up electrodes to plants and they approach the plants with scissors and clippers and they make the little clipping sound as they approach them, and the electrodes spike.  So the plant is somewhat observant that something is happening where you can measure some type of electrical communication from the plant.  So we know at some level, maybe we can’t–we’re not in touch with it, but we know we do have technology that can measure something is–the plant is sensing some type of fear when we’re approaching it with scissors.  So the whole idea that plants aren’t alive isn’t true, and I come with the philosophy, “It takes life to sustain life”.  So anything that’s alive, anything you eat needs to have some test–some level of life to it and just because it doesn’t have a baby and a face and isn’t cute and furry, it doesn’t mean it’s not alive.  So just–that’s one little step out there.  I know that’s kinda stretching everyone’s mind to think to wrap their head around it but you know, there’s scientific data showing that.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, yeah, and I’ve also seen something similar to where when a–what–what do you call it?  I can’t think of it now.  The device that they use to basically eat up all the plants and cut them up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  It starts–it starts with a C.  I can’t think of it right now.  Now compactor, anyway.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Evan Brand:  Somebody’s yelling at me right now of what it is.  Anyway, har–it’s like a harvester.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  We’ll just use the word harvester and so as they’re coming through and their harvesting the field, the other plants have–they’ve been shown to hear that stuff coming.  They’re hearing the sound of that noise of their–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Impending doom and so they actually start to release more toxins and release more compounds, more I don’t know whether it’s lectins or what it is, but they start releasing some type of compound and a defense mechanism once they hear it.  So it’s interesting now–now you start thinking, “Hmm, well, am I eating the spinach that came from the–the last row of the–of the field?  Or am I eating the spinach–I didn’t know what was coming.”  You know?  So it’s kinda funny how deep you can go with that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think the word is combine.

Evan Brand:  Combine!  Yes, that’s it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, combine.  Same thing with animals, too, right?  If an animal–I don’t wanna get too graphic with everyone, but if an animal can see it’s, you know, let’s say there’s a big slaughter line and–and the animals can see it coming, they produce a ton of adrenalin and that can cause the meat to actually putrify and rot faster, potentially increase parasites in the meat.  So ideally, if a meat is properly, if the animals are properly killed, they don’t–they don’t see it coming.  It’s just like they had one bad and they didn’t even see it coming so there wasn’t even an opportunity for the stress response to kick in because it just happened instantly.

Evan Brand:  Right, as opposed to if they were stored in a normal factory farm, their whole life has rev–revolved around being miserable with high cortisol and high adrenalin and stress, and we’re eating all that.  So I think part of that plays into why society’s really stressed and angry and I mean, there’s just so much stuff inside of them.  That’s a whole another podcast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, and I just wanna wrap people’s head around it.  It takes life to sustain life.  There’s data showing that plants are alive.  And it makes sense, too, because look, they grow.  I mean you got the Mozart effect.  Plants grow in certain directions, they grow towards the light.  You give plants pesticides and chemicals, or you know, they grow and respond differently to–to nutrients.  We know that, so it makes sense.  So the argument of well, we gotta avoid meat because meat’s alive and–and animals aren’t, well, it doesn’t really ring true when you really look at the data.  Plants are alive, too.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So anything else you wanna add, Evan?  I think just kinda summarizing.  Be careful of the Paleo treats.  The sicker you are, you may wanna avoid them.  And if you are eating them, choose the ones that have the least amount of sugar, the least amount of damaging stuff in there.  And again, you know, maybe 1% of the time, you could really have a full out cheat.  But you gotta be careful depending on how gluten-sensitive and how sick you are.  Number two, we talked about information overload.  Make sure information kinda has logic and reason behind it and some clinical application, not just theoretical research.  And number three, you see what was number three?  There was a couple of parts of it.  I think the–the low fat aspect, making sure we eat fuller fat meats and then also just making sure we have enough calories that when we replace our foods, that we’re choosing enough–making sure we have enough calories in the healthy foods that we’re eating and we’re eating enough to begin with and if for some reason we’re not getting hungry and we’re having issues, look to the digestion or look to the gut for a deeper reason, a deeper underlying cause why.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, great.  And I would add lastly to that, make sure that you’re actually moving.  If you’re not exercising, your metabolic rate is naturally gonna be slower, you might not be hungry because this fat that you’re adding into your meal could be so satiating that if you’re not exercising to actually get some stuff moving then you may not be hungry.  You may eat less, so get moving.  That’s–that’s a whole another topic, but it’s–the benefits are immeasurable.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great.  I think I’m motivated to do a workout after this podcast, Evan.

Evan Brand:  I need to.  I need to get my brain going.  I feel like I’m a little bit sluggish today and you’re killing it.  It must have been the coffee that you had.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I think all of the fat, too.  I’m running off of ketones this morning, man.

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alright, but hey, great chatting.  Hope everyone enjoyed the podcast and feel free and write in.  Again our last podcast was done off of your email so if you guys want some topics covered, let us know.  We’re here to serve you, guys.

Evan Brand:  Absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks, Evan.

Evan Brand:  Thanks, man.  Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You, too.

Evan Brand:  Bye.

 

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